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View Full Version : Venus..... a sad figure today on court


tyk101
Jun 1st, 2003, 06:52 PM
Although she smiled at the end of the match, the smile was hesitant, almost forced, a smile of relief... her big smile of a champion was no longer there today... she's lost something today, not her game but her confidence. Negativity>Positively

The Venus of old is suddenly disintegrating.. and this loss isn't going to help. Although her injury may have played a part, she didn't seem to have the determination she is renound for today.

At this very moment her heart isn't to tennis, perhaps her losses against Serena in the previous 4 slams have played a part.. She's still got game, it's just finding a way to relieve her mental anxiety on the court...

schris
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:03 PM
It`s very sad to me :sad: I miss her champion spirit :sad:

tyk101
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:09 PM
I'm not a great Venus fan.... but her confidence was totally not there, making error after error it was awful to watch, even Serena was cringing. have to feel sorry for her at this very moment

BK4ever
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:09 PM
She was giving it away today and Vera took it ;)

Pureracket
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:12 PM
Well, this is why I'm a fan of sports. Though I am not happy she lost, fans have to know that these things happen. Who knows? She may never win on the big stage again, but I'm going to root for her like hell to do so.:)

Cybelle Darkholme
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:13 PM
Although she smiled at the end of the match, the smile was hesitant, almost forced, a smile of relief... her big smile of a champion was no longer there today... she's lost something today, not her game but her confidence. Negativity>Positively

The Venus of old is suddenly disintegrating.. and this loss isn't going to help. Although her injury may have played a part, she didn't seem to have the determination she is renound for today.

At this very moment her heart isn't to tennis, perhaps her losses against Serena in the previous 4 slams have played a part.. She's still got game, it's just finding a way to relieve her mental anxiety on the court...


You must be joking, right? Truly there is nothing worse than bad couch potato psychology. She lost a match why would she smile her champions smile after losing? That makes no sense at all! And as far as her confidence goes she wasn't lacking that when she dismantled Kim in antwerp did she? And that was after losing four finals to her sister. Give it a rest please. Venus needs to work on her game and FOCUS on tennis that is why she lost. The competition is getting better. Vera played out of her mind and played smart tennis. The days of I can play at 70% of my ability against most of the tour are over. The new girls are here and they are ready to get to the top. Venus should hire someone to run her company and get back to her primary career imo. Business ventures will always be there Tennis won't and thats a fact.

Freewoman33
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:13 PM
Venus will be back. She still has Wimby and USO. Hopefully,she'll be much better for Wimby

c2
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:16 PM
cybelle, what company is Venus running? I didn't know that...

BK4ever
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:18 PM
Alot of people are counting Venus out...prematurely..

Her year has not been as bad as some are making it out to be. She lost in Miami and here...she was in the finals of the last four slams...and she was just in the finals of Warsaw...now if she goes to Wimby and loses and them loses in all of her summer tournaments then we have something to worry about...some of us just need to chill...

jbone_0307
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:18 PM
V Starr Interior Designing company she owns

jbone_0307
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:23 PM
omg Cybelle Darkholme we speak the same language. Ive been trying to say that all along that you can always start a business in your life so why jump into it when you tennis career is limited.

c2
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:26 PM
I agree... I think she needs to concentrate 100% on tennis now and put the distractions away. I believe she still has the ability to be in each & every final but not without a total focus on tennis. THe other players are getting too good

JustinSteffi
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:37 PM
Is it just me or did Venus look really thin up top today? Her arms are almost bony to me.

JJH

harloo
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:48 PM
I just think those 4 slam finals she lost to Serena took something out of her. It was devastating, because in the past when Venus got to slam finals she would win. She has said in her interviews that it was dissapointing to lose all those times in important matches.

It is hard for her to deal with, especially with all eyes on her wondering what she will do next. How is she supposed to feel after her first early loss in a major in about 1 1/2 years? Any sane person would not be smiling.

IMO, Venus will have to re dedicate herself to improving. She is a proud young lady, and does not feel the need to get extra outside help with her serve and forehand. Richard and Oracence have both did a great job coaching, but what is wrong with getting extra help? Serena did without thinking twice.

My hope is that Venus will take this loss seriously and get some help with her game. IMO, these type of losses are good for her because they will force her to try too improve. If not then I don't know how she will keep going on in tennis. She has all the goods, but really needs to get her drive and dedication back.

I will continue to support her as all her fans should, but I hope she realizes that she needs to get some extra help.

LucasArg
Jun 1st, 2003, 08:10 PM
She needs to play more often, I hope she can play her best tennis in the grass and HC season.

Go Queen! :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:

Hendouble
Jun 1st, 2003, 08:28 PM
Realistically, this isn't as big a sea-change in women's tennis as some might think. If such an upset was going to happen anywhere it would be at Roland Garros, where the opposition have that little bit more time to play their own game; both Williamses will be as hard to stop as ever at Wimbledon with their grass-court artillery.

Equally though, I'm not surprised that it's Venus who has been the first to be toppled prematurely in a Grand Slam by a non-Williams. She's both mentally and technically weaker than Serena, and it's something she needs to address. There was one game today when she dumped her forehand tamely into the middle of the net twice in a row; the court was wide open, all she had to do was push it over, and she still missed.

harloo
Jun 1st, 2003, 08:35 PM
Realistically, this isn't as big a sea-change in women's tennis as some might think. If such an upset was going to happen anywhere it would be at Roland Garros, where the opposition have that little bit more time to play their own game; both Williamses will be as hard to stop as ever at Wimbledon with their grass-court artillery.



Exactly Hendouble. I think the surface has alot to do with it. Some of the girls have time to set up their games at the French. Clay is the greatest equalizer.

treufreund
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:52 PM
Venus is experiencing what my fave Hingis experienced. It is shell shock (cappy too btw) when you are #1 in the world and then suddenly you cannot win a grand slam (or in this case Cappy has won no tourney and Venus have not won a Tier 1 event in forever)

luckily for Venus and Jennifer they are still healthy and can fight back. Martina Hingis isn't healthy. She tried to come back and fought hard to improve her game (which she did in OYZ 2002 but the mental game was not back) and then her injuries broke her spirit. Luckily though she is injuring her life.

Venus and Jenn are both still awesome players but playing second fiddle is tough on them. Lindsay and Monica have actually dealth with that better.

leslie
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:05 PM
What do you people expect from Venus? Have any of you ever had an abdominal muscle strain and try to serve or move around. The worse part about it, was that she did not have a day off to ice her stomach and take care of the strain. Did you see the stats on her serve that was not venus. Yesterday she was serving at 113-120mph and is because she had a day of to take care of herself. I have never seen Venus low on confidence that is not in her nature. She could be dying of pain and none of us would ever know because it is something she will never admit to.

starr
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:06 PM
lol...... I hope you meant "enjoying" her life. :)

But that's Martina. She is always going to be laughing and smiling. Those are my best memories of her.... seeing her call out to other players coming and going to the practice courts, smiling radiantly at the little children clustered around the fence to get her autograph, laughing at her own stupid mistakes on the court. We will never ever see anything like her again.

But, I agree that Venus has to swallow hard here. Who knows how it really affects her? She says she is happy to see Serena doing well, and she says that being number 2 isn't as much fun as being number one. It has to sort of hurt to be playing only a supporting role in the drama that is Serena's tennis career. Sort of like having the best friend role when she used to be the star.

But you know we saw that with Stefi too when Monica started beating her. Suddenly Graf was having losses against other players too. She was losing some of her confidence.

1jackson2001
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:12 PM
Yes, and the thing is, from what I saw IMO, Venus didn't play THAT badly. She obviously could have still eliminate those really unneccessary unforced errors on those crucial points, where Venus had set up perfectly for the winning shot, and then dumps a lame forehand into the net. Her confidence is not all quite there and therefore her serves were weaker and she didn't approach to the net and do her swing volleys.

BrianII
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:14 PM
Well I watched as much of the match as I could stomach ( it tough for me to watch Venus' losses). I don't really feel all that bad ..she still dictated play albeit with atrocious forhand errors and a few good bachands, she was still moving well ..she was simply awful on the big points . Maybe a bad year is what she needs to regain the hunger to win and if she doesn't so be it, i'll always support her until she hangs up her rackets . In both 2000 and 2001 she didn't really have a better year to date than she's having now, yet she still got her 6 titles ,so we will see what the rest of the year brings.

Althea
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:24 PM
I don't think Venus is having mental anxiety.
I think that Venus is not giving/in a position
to give 100% to her tennis game because a percentage of her is focused on growing her business.

She does look a little slimmer (but she still looks good, very good :)

Best Wishes Venus (in your future matches)

**I should have said I don't think all of her anxiety is tennis related but a mixture of tennis and business, the two combined must be wearing on her mentally, physically and a bit emotionally. I hope she can find a way to balance the two

ys
Jun 2nd, 2003, 03:48 AM
That beautiful smile of her at the net did look unexpected..

I have a very strange take on it, and I do not expect to be really supported in interpretation of it..Just a little fantasy..

It seems to me that the problem lies in the past, where at the peak of her dominance Venus had to beat her little sister on regular basis and that was not something she really enjoyed, and that internal struggle between a champion in her and a caring elder sister, that struggle was what caused her to give in her dominance. Then she was losing to her sister, but she loves her sister so much that she was aceepting that, enjoying her sister having her year of glory. And then, I think, early this year or , perhaps, later in previous year, she realised that this duality killes her as a champion, and she made an attempt to get out of it, and at AO she tried to overcome her sisterly love and she played very close ot her best and nearly won it. but that didn't seem to help. It became a habit. More than that, it starts looking like she looks at other younger players as her little sisters. That smile at the net surely looked like tender sisterly smile:"Glad to see you happy, my dear little sister"..

SerialKiller#69
Jun 2nd, 2003, 05:08 AM
That beautiful smile of her at the net did look unexpected..

I have a very strange take on it, and I do not expect to be really supported in interpretation of it..Just a little fantasy..

It seems to me that the problem lies in the past, where at the peak of her dominance Venus had to beat her little sister on regular basis and that was not something she really enjoyed, and that internal struggle between a champion in her and a caring elder sister, that struggle was what caused her to give in her dominance. Then she was losing to her sister, but she loves her sister so much that she was aceepting that, enjoying her sister having her year of glory. And then, I think, early this year or , perhaps, later in previous year, she realised that this duality killes her as a champion, and she made an attempt to get out of it, and at AO she tried to overcome her sisterly love and she played very close ot her best and nearly won it. but that didn't seem to help. It became a habit. More than that, it starts looking like she looks at other younger players as her little sisters. That smile at the net surely looked like tender sisterly smile:"Glad to see you happy, my dear little sister"..

very strange indeed. :wavey:

BasicTennis
Jun 2nd, 2003, 05:32 AM
Venus could only blame herself for not improving her game. She can improve if she likes to and she must realize that she just can't go on a big event without match practice. Most girls are surely getting to the level that they have set up so Venus must realize that she has to raise her level as well and that if she can get away before of not playing matches before GS events, now, she can't afford to be complacent. She needs to work her ass like the other girls do.:devil:

Those "little sisters" thingy is just pure bullshit IMO.

Philbo
Jun 2nd, 2003, 05:37 AM
She is realising that to catch up to Serena its gonna be a hellueve hard task and I dont think she knows if she has the hunger/desire to put in the committment in training etc it will take to beat Serena...

tennisIlove09
Jun 2nd, 2003, 07:09 AM
Yes, and the thing is, from what I saw IMO, Venus didn't play THAT badly. She obviously could have still eliminate those really unneccessary unforced errors on those crucial points, where Venus had set up perfectly for the winning shot, and then dumps a lame forehand into the net. Her confidence is not all quite there and therefore her serves were weaker and she didn't approach to the net and do her swing volleys.

She lost the match. I read in an article that Vera won 100 points; 86 from Venus' errors.

I'm not sure how much her strain was bothering her, but her confidence isn't there. I'm almost 100% that she will have confidence on grass, regardless because her power means something.

lee station
Jun 2nd, 2003, 07:23 AM
That beautiful smile of her at the net did look unexpected..

I have a very strange take on it, and I do not expect to be really supported in interpretation of it..Just a little fantasy..

It seems to me that the problem lies in the past, where at the peak of her dominance Venus had to beat her little sister on regular basis and that was not something she really enjoyed, and that internal struggle between a champion in her and a caring elder sister, that struggle was what caused her to give in her dominance. Then she was losing to her sister, but she loves her sister so much that she was aceepting that, enjoying her sister having her year of glory. And then, I think, early this year or , perhaps, later in previous year, she realised that this duality killes her as a champion, and she made an attempt to get out of it, and at AO she tried to overcome her sisterly love and she played very close ot her best and nearly won it. but that didn't seem to help. It became a habit. More than that, it starts looking like she looks at other younger players as her little sisters. That smile at the net surely looked like tender sisterly smile:"Glad to see you happy, my dear little sister"..
I can understand that.....

bilbo
Jun 2nd, 2003, 07:40 AM
:sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

irma
Jun 2nd, 2003, 08:25 AM
That beautiful smile of her at the net did look unexpected..

I have a very strange take on it, and I do not expect to be really supported in interpretation of it..Just a little fantasy..

It seems to me that the problem lies in the past, where at the peak of her dominance Venus had to beat her little sister on regular basis and that was not something she really enjoyed, and that internal struggle between a champion in her and a caring elder sister, that struggle was what caused her to give in her dominance. Then she was losing to her sister, but she loves her sister so much that she was aceepting that, enjoying her sister having her year of glory. And then, I think, early this year or , perhaps, later in previous year, she realised that this duality killes her as a champion, and she made an attempt to get out of it, and at AO she tried to overcome her sisterly love and she played very close ot her best and nearly won it. but that didn't seem to help. It became a habit. More than that, it starts looking like she looks at other younger players as her little sisters. That smile at the net surely looked like tender sisterly smile:"Glad to see you happy, my dear little sister"..

did venus take over as the new mother theresa of tennis? :o

Greenout
Jun 2nd, 2003, 08:43 AM
I watched the match live from the ending of
the 2nd set to the very end. Here's my take on it.
I think there was a bittersweet note to Venus because
she truly expected to win in the end. I think she totally
didn't expect it- how could it? It was different than the
time she had an upset at RG in the hands of mystery
woman Barbara Schwartz; because she didn't do much
spot checking on her Austrian opponent. Not many people
have notes on Barbara Schwartz because she's in and
out of the tour so often except for the odd big event
upset outing. This loss to Vera was more like a sucker
punch for Venus. Vera was not suppose to win- all the
tell tale signs were there for it not to happen. The current
WIlliams domination in tennis, the inexperience, center
court, grand slam hype. Everything no matter how long
the match would play out pointed to Venus as the winner.

I think this is one of those losses that truly hurt
Venus. She let down alot of people; especially herself
It was different from the previous WTA events too
because she truly CARED about winning, and getting
to a final with Serena. Venus IMHO was playing with
more attention, soul , and heart in the match against
Vera that I've seen all year long. She wanted to win-
it didn't happened, and it hurts.

Scorch
Jun 2nd, 2003, 09:31 AM
My take on events:

Venus lost in a close match where she was nowhere near her best, Vera won playing near her top form - you do the math.

It is a wake up call for Venus. The forehand is liability and is an obvious target for any opponent. Her usual aggresive play was not there, mentally she was not there when it mattered. How can a returner of Venus' calibre not take advantage of the amazingly weak second serve of Vera?

This is the most difficult time for any champion - the real dip in results after a solid run. It's time to make the changes in her life to get the results she is capable of. It will be fascinating to see if she (a) wants it enough and (b) is capable of getting her groove back.

venusgold
Jun 2nd, 2003, 10:00 AM
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by ys
That beautiful smile of her at the net did look unexpected..

I have a very strange take on it, and I do not expect to be really supported in interpretation of it..Just a little fantasy..

It seems to me that the problem lies in the past, where at the peak of her dominance Venus had to beat her little sister on regular basis and that was not something she really enjoyed, and that internal struggle between a champion in her and a caring elder sister, that struggle was what caused her to give in her dominance. Then she was losing to her sister, but she loves her sister so much that she was aceepting that, enjoying her sister having her year of glory. And then, I think, early this year or , perhaps, later in previous year, she realised that this duality killes her as a champion, and she made an attempt to get out of it, and at AO she tried to overcome her sisterly love and she played very close ot her best and nearly won it. but that didn't seem to help. It became a habit. More than that, it starts looking like she looks at other younger players as her little sisters. That smile at the net surely looked like tender sisterly smile:"Glad to see you happy, my dear little sister"..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(I'm a Venus fan so i might be biased but here goes...)

I sureVenus didn't think she would get to the finals.
Venus has made the finals of tournaments and even slams without warm-ups but not without lots of practice.
I think that after her injury she still decided to play the french open cause alot of ranking point were at stake and she wanted to hold on to as many points as possible
I'm sure she was disappointed at the loss but she was probably happy her not-so-good play got her that far, hence the smile ;) .

1jackson2001
Jun 2nd, 2003, 10:15 AM
Venus needs to pick it up a whole bunch at Wimby. The grass should help her but she needs to be more aggressive, and her shots need to start landing in.

Diya
Jun 2nd, 2003, 12:07 PM
Open-Shock defeat leaves Venus shattered
2003-06-01 19:03:59 GMT (Reuters)


By Bill Barclay

PARIS, June 1 (Reuters) - Shattered third seed Venus Williams wore a look of utter dejection after her shock fourth round exit from the French Open at the hands of Russian teenager Vera Zvonareva on Sunday.

"I was really off," the 22-year-old American said after her 2-6 6-2 6-4 defeat on centre court.

"I just had a tough time keeping balls in. I just need to go home and prepare. It's very disappointing but at this junction there is nothing I can do about it. I have to move on to the next tournament."

Venus, who lost to younger sister Serena in last year's French Open final, suffered from a lack of control on her shots and failed to exploit her volleying ability at the net.

"I should have played smarter," she said. "I don't think I was thinking about coming in. That's bad."

Venus has been troubled by abdominal problems in recent weeks and she said her preparation for the claycourt grand slam had been less than ideal.

"I don't really think I had the preparation I wanted. I felt I had to compensate in other areas whereas normally I could be playing freely and swinging freely and just be completely ready. That made it hard too.

"Each match is tough if it's a loss, especially if it's a grand slam. They are all really disappointing. On a good day I feel I would be able to win a match such as today's."

PAID TRIBUTE

She also paid tribute to the 18-year-old number 22 seed Zvonareva, saying: "She did really well. She definitely stuck in there.

"I had a lot of opportunities...but when she got her opportunity she stayed in there. That's what it takes to win such a match."

The 22-year-old has four grand slam wins to her name but she has never won at Roland Garros and her last grand slam triumph was the 2001 U.S. Open.

But Venus rejected the suggestion that her career was on the slide.

"I feel like I'm going forward. I always feel like I am going forward. There isn't always a time when things can be 100 percent. For a couple of years I had 100 percent a lot of the time. But when you lose and when you have tougher times, it makes you stronger moving forward.

"I've won majors before, I've won tournaments before, I've come from down in matches before. I feel I have the experience to be successful. Now I just have to go on and do it."

Venus said she hoped sister Serena, who has beaten her in each of the last four grand slam finals, now went on to win the tournament.

i-girl
Jun 2nd, 2003, 12:22 PM
I agree with Harloo and YS that the competition with Serena is taking it's toll. still, let's not get carried away, Venus is not gone, not by a long shot. it was just an off day, coming back from an injury, on her least favourite surface. she'll bounce back. if anything, I think she needs a bit of a shock like this to motivate her. remember that injury in 2000? that, combined with the shock of Serena winning a Slam before she did at the end of 99, is what's made her come back in Wimbeldon 2000 and REALLY compete.

and that smile at the end was so classy, I loved it.

skanky~skanketta
Jun 2nd, 2003, 12:52 PM
dont worry!she'll bounce back in time for the next grand slam!

Fantastic
Jun 2nd, 2003, 01:05 PM
The positive was that Venus kept going for her shots in the face of a high error count. Someone low on confidence would not be going for her shots and would be losing points by fluffing up easy ones. Vera Zvonareva played a good match and deserved to win. She made less errors and raised a question that Venus could not answer that day. Better luck next time, Venus. Congratulations Vera.

Chance
Jun 2nd, 2003, 03:08 PM
Basictennis, just wondering how is Venus suppose to have match practice and rest her stomach at the same time?

I'm glad I haven't seen many matches when Venus loses but when I have,Venus has smiled at the net... so LOL Irma is right Venus didn't become Mother Theresa, overnight.. no that role goes to Kim ;)

I pretty much agree with Scorch. Vera played some great tennis while it was a bad day from Vee, she needs to address certain aspects of her game but this loss isn't the end of the world.


I also find it amusing to find certain posters in this thread who claim to find womens tennis not as interesting and suppose to be indifferent to Venus, but still provide their expert opinion.

c2
Jun 2nd, 2003, 04:36 PM
women's not as interesting as the men's? scandalous I say .. ;) and completely impossible too...

Mr. Man
Jun 2nd, 2003, 05:34 PM
dont worry!she'll bounce back in time for the next grand slam!
I agree. Hopefully she'll rest up once again and come back strong at Wimby. :worship: