PDA

View Full Version : It's not Kim's fault...


disposablehero
Jun 1st, 2003, 06:02 PM
It's not Kim's fault the number of tournaments the Williams play to get their rankings.

It's also not Kim's fault that she is the only top 20 player left in the bottom half of the draw.

However, it is Kim's fault that being the only top 20 player no longer looks like a free pass to the Final, after today's performance.

jenglisbe
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:24 PM
Well, I expect Kim to raise her level of play. She raised it after the horrendous first set today, and she should be able to raise it in these later rounds.

Take advantage of this, Kim!!

Hagar
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:37 PM
Kim was tested today, just like Venus and Jennifer were tested. Kim passed the test, Venus and Jennifer didn't.

Couver
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:39 PM
I don't know why anyone would blame her in the first place? Venus, Jennifer, and Lindsay all gave it and shot and it didn't work out. It worked out for Kim, blaming her for that is kinda silly.

fammmmedspin
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:39 PM
Given the choice I am not sure I would pick two hot aggressive players on their way to the top 10, or resurgent Conchita who can be almost unbeatable on clay and will wear you out trying to beat her, for my half. I would have prefered Justine's quarter.

irma
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:40 PM
oh they will bash her for her draw anyway when she reaches the final. they do already all year, but who cares as long as she wins;)

raquel
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:40 PM
Kim was tested today, just like Venus and Jennifer were tested. Kim passed the test, Venus and Jennifer didn't.
I like Kim and I am glad she is through, but after the first set, Kim was in control. Venus and Jennifer had far, far toughers tests that Kim. I think Venus and Jennifer would have beaten Maggie too.

Mercury Rising
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:44 PM
Well whatever happens in the future, this match made me love Kim even more.
After that terrible first set, the way she fought back, her determination, her will to win. I love it!!

Hagar
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:45 PM
I like Kim and I am glad she is through, but after the first set, Kim was in control. Venus and Jennifer had far, far toughers tests that Kim. I think Venus and Jennifer would have beaten Maggie too.

PLEEEEEAAAASSSSEEEEEE. GIVE ME A BREAK. This is a silly explanation. Venus and Jennifer did NOT pass their test and that does not mean that Kim's test was less difficult.
This sounds like inventing whatever argument just to NOT have to admit that Venus and Jennifer did not make it.

raquel
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:48 PM
PLEEEEEAAAASSSSEEEEEE. GIVE ME A BREAK. This is a silly explanation. Venus and Jennifer did NOT pass their test and that does not mean that Kim's test was less difficult.
This sounds like inventing whatever argument just to NOT have to admit that Venus and Jennifer did not make it.
I am not inventing anything. Venus and Jennifer were outplayed. All I am saying is, Nadia and Vera are tougher opponents than Maggie right now. In the second and third set Kim was not tested, she was in control.

irma
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:50 PM
indeed she was totally not in the match and in the first part of the second set maleeva could easily have run away and she(maleeva) still got many chances to break back in the rest of the match and kim just stepped up at those points!

a true champion :bounce:

SeReNa FoReVeR
Jun 1st, 2003, 07:56 PM
:rolleyes: at this thread. everything you said, is bascially summed up, that kim is where she is b/c of venus.

if all in all, you have to give Kim credit of her results with the point of venus added, its clear, although its not kims fault, you could say its venus' fault that she is where she is right now.

Lien
Jun 1st, 2003, 08:02 PM
I just know that people will say if (and I say IF) she reaches the final, that she didn't deserved it.

Hagar
Jun 1st, 2003, 08:05 PM
:rolleyes: at this thread. everything you said, is bascially summed up, that kim is where she is b/c of venus.

if all in all, you have to give Kim credit of her results with the point of venus added, its clear, although its not kims fault, you could say its venus' fault that she is where she is right now.

:rolleyes: @you!
IMHO, disposablehero's point is actually that Kim is not where she is because of Venus but simply because of her own qualities.
Sigh.
This kind of reaction makes me regret that Venus is out because I wanted to see a Kim-Venus semi that would show Kim's real value (which is still doubted by some).
Or it must be that I don't understand the English language well enough.

Lien
Jun 1st, 2003, 08:07 PM
:rolleyes: @you!
IMHO, disposablehero's point is actually that Kim is not where she is because of Venus but simply because of her own qualities.
Sigh.
This kind of reaction makes me regret that Venus is out because I wanted to see a Kim-Venus semi that would show Kim's real value (which is still doubted by some).
Or it must be that I don't understand the English language well enough.

You are right, that is why I wanted to see a Kim-Venus match up too because if Kim had won people would finally stop bashing her.

irma
Jun 1st, 2003, 08:09 PM
you really think that? they would have said venus was injured and could not practice and that's why she lost. they will always find a way but as said who cares:)

harloo
Jun 1st, 2003, 08:12 PM
Kim's chances to win this tournament has greatly improved with the dismissal of Venus, and Jen.

Venus and Jen had tough opponents who did not waiver, Kim had an opponent who did waiver even though she bagelled her. This is a slam people IMO Kim was fortunate but that does not take anything away from her. Venus and Jen were not.

I think her draw is wide open, and the 3 top contenders are on the other side. So Kim will have a cakewalk to the finals, and whomever meets her will probably be tired. But that's tennis for you, you never know what can happen.

If Kim does not win this slam without all this help then I am not sure that she ever will. JMHO.

Lien
Jun 1st, 2003, 08:13 PM
you really think that? they would have said venus was injured and could not practice and that's why she lost. they will always find a way but as said who cares:)

Yeah, I always try to think positive. To say it in Dutch 'Hoop doet leven'.

tennisfun
Jun 1st, 2003, 08:17 PM
Didn't Venus and Kim already had an encounter this year? Or maybe Kim was not 100% that time, I thought she said she just had too much with Hewitt the night before the match.

Jericho
Jun 1st, 2003, 08:21 PM
Gosh now that venus lost everyone is like oh if venus were to meet kim, blah blah blah...it was already settled in Antwerp, PERIOD! Yeah it isnt kims fault that her draw is easy, it doesnt matter because it'll end up hurting her just like today...

irma
Jun 1st, 2003, 08:23 PM
bad kim for not losing today :o

arn
Jun 1st, 2003, 08:46 PM
Gosh now that venus lost everyone is like oh if venus were to meet kim, blah blah blah...it was already settled in Antwerp, PERIOD! Yeah it isnt kims fault that her draw is easy, it doesnt matter because it'll end up hurting her just like today...


So that's one match you base your judgement on?? From now on let's say Zvonareva is the better one of Venus, what surface they play on what so ever, you just saw it today! So that's settled :)

starr
Jun 1st, 2003, 08:52 PM
It was already settled in Paris, PERIOD!

WtaTour4Ever
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:01 PM
Who said it was her fault?

best best better
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:02 PM
If Kim gets to the final who can say she hasn't deserved it? Yeah, maybe people will but they can't understand competitve, match-play tennis.

It really is game of 2 halves; 2 halves of the draw that is. The bottom side was absolutely loaded with GS champs (Venus, Lindsay, Conchita, Jen, Monica). On paper that's a pretty competitive half. What that doesn't say of course is that only one of the above (Capriati) has won a GS on this surface.
How certain could you be that Serena would come out of a half like that? It's pretty intimidating.
On another tack, of all the 'tests' that were dished out today (there were many, but the Zvonareva/Petrova/Maleeva triumvirate seems to be the most popular), Maleeva was the one opponent who had nothing, on this surface, that was gonna trouble their opponent. It was really as if that first set never happened.

But if Kim does get to the final, and lift the trophy the record books won't give a toss about the draw. Just that she won. It's all that counts.

... So is Kim the favourite for the whole thing now? ;)

Jericho
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:11 PM
So that's one match you base your judgement on?? From now on let's say Zvonareva is the better one of Venus, what surface they play on what so ever, you just saw it today! So that's settled :)

oh stop being an idiot, that was the first time vera played venus...not only can i base my judgement on the 6-2 6-4 win in Antwerp, but also the 6-3 6-3 win at stanford, and also the 6-3 5-7 6-4 at san diego...pick one! The only "win" kim has on venus over the past year is the retirement at the year ending championships...

And on the subject on basing things on one match, well lets just say that some people think that you only need 1 win to be considered a threat to Serena (Mauresmo and Clijsters) :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Lien
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:13 PM
oh stop being an idiot, that was the first time vera played venus...not only can i base my judgement on the 6-2 6-4 win in Antwerp, but also the 6-3 6-3 win at stanford, and also the 6-3 5-7 6-4 at san diego...pick one! The only "win" kim has on venus is the retirement at the year ending championships...

And on the subject on basing things on one match, well lets just say that you only need 1 win to be considered a threat to Serena (Mauresmo and Clijsters) :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Check your sources, she beat her in Hamburg last year.

Jericho
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:15 PM
Check your sources, she beat her in Hamburg last year.

52 weeks-wise ;)

treufreund
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:16 PM
actually MAGGIE played quite well but KIM stepped it up and kept the errors down and hit aces and winners. Do you really think VENUS could have held up against MAGGIE?? Maggie, I believe, has a WINNING RECORD against Venus and I don't think Venus would have beaten her in the form she is in. Not at all! If anything Venus's opponent also waivered (albeit in the first set and third set where Venus had plenty of chances. she did not take her chances.)

to say that Maggie is not a tough opponent having beaten Lindsay, Venus (several times), Amelie to win Moscow and then having bagelled Kim today is silly. Mags is the bomb! Also Mags clearly was more tired than Kim anyways considering her tough matches in the tourney.

CONGRATS KIMMIE!!!

arn
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:19 PM
oh stop being an idiot, that was the first time vera played venus...not only can i base my judgement on the 6-2 6-4 win in Antwerp, but also the 6-3 6-3 win at stanford, and also the 6-3 5-7 6-4 at san diego...pick one! The only "win" kim has on venus over the past year is the retirement at the year ending championships...

And on the subject on basing things on one match, well lets just say that some people think that you only need 1 win to be considered a threat to Serena (Mauresmo and Clijsters) :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

But this is clay, and Venus never won a clay match against Kim, so I don't see what's idiotic about it. Even more because Kim has improved a lot the last 7-8 months.

And instead of only looking at the outcome, also look at the scoreline of matches. If a player plays a lot of 3-sets matches against another but always lost, I consider this player a threat to the other.

Rocketta
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:19 PM
Who says its Kim's fault??

She just damn lucky with her draws!!! She's unlucky because she has not had to prove anything by beating the best at their best. That doesn't mean she couldn't beat the best at their best it just means she hasn't had to and that's makes a lot of difference in some aspects but no difference in others.

Lien
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:23 PM
She isn't always lucky with her draws.
If she was I guess she should have won all the GS.

best best better
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:27 PM
Just wanna throw this in the pot (in response to truefreund:

Not sure that Venus would have beaten Maggie on the non-committal non-attacking form that she showed us today.... But that doesn't say a lot about Maggie. No great depth, no great pace... she had a few good ideas, but couldn't execute them - admittedly in part due to Clijsters' phenomenal movement. But in no way did she - in this match - have the quality of play (those shots that do REAL damage) that either Nadya or Vera did.

irma
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:27 PM
kim should be kicked out of the top 10 and they should deny her all her points. she doesn't belong there. it's all luck :o

starr
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:28 PM
Yeah, well Venus certainly didn't beat the best.

But, if Serena has to play some tough matches in the quarters and semis and then wins the tournament, my hat's off to her. But, if she loses after a tough match in the quarters or the semis, I don't want to hear any belly aching, because we all remember how people sneered at Martina for claiming how hard it was to beat both Williams sisters back to back.

wongqks
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:29 PM
LOL, if Vera and Nadia is tougher opponent, then by this theory, if Kim level is the same as Jenn and Venus, she will not reach the final anyway coz she will be fain gon of them at least should she get past conchita

irma
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:29 PM
and it's hard to beat the best when they are their best. as soon as kim is the opponent everybody loses their power :o

arn
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:33 PM
Just wanna throw this in the pot (in response to truefreund:

Not sure that Venus would have beaten Maggie on the non-committal non-attacking form that she showed us today.... But that doesn't say a lot about Maggie. No great depth, no great pace... she had a few good ideas, but couldn't execute them - admittedly in part due to Clijsters' phenomenal movement. But in no way did she - in this match - have the quality of play (those shots that do REAL damage) that either Nadya or Vera did.

On the other hand Nadya and Vera don't have all the experience, the ballfeeling and inside in strategics that Maggie has.

It's difficult to compare, Vera and Nadya are both up and coming players, Maggi is an experienced player ranked higher as both the russian girls.

best best better
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:41 PM
hey arn,

I'm not taking anything out of Kim's performance. I totally acknowledge that Maggie has a track record of taking sets of Top 10 players, and also beating them (I said as much in a 'predictions' thread earlier in the day). Nadya is playing injury-free now for the first time in what, 16 months or something? So her ranking could be seen as a false one. Anyways, I'm getting a bit off the point here.

I would also have thought that Maggie's experience would have counted for more than it ended up doing. Maggie had chances in that match that a player with better movment, better depth and a bit more zip in their shots would have exploited more. Kim's serve for one thing was pretty much off all day.

I just say it how I saw it. Once again, it's not detracting from Kim, it's just comparing the performance of her opponent with the opponents of Capriati and Williams. Kim can only play who's put in front of her. I understand that.

starr
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:54 PM
The thing that I see that is different about Petrova and Zvonereva is that the two Russians are tough girls, and Maggie with all her endearing qualities, has never struck me as particularly tough. Not that she isn't a great player and a love, because she is.

But Petrova and Zvonereva have real tough demeanors. They are determined girls.

I liked what Serena had to say about Monica and her determination. Players could learn a lot from the young Monica in that department. Carrillo once said of the young Monica that she was "the best match player" she had ever seen... Meaning that Monica got her teeth into a match and just wouldn't let go and would play herself into the ground point after point. Zvonereva has something of that in her. The match she and Kunetsova played in IW was so long and grueling, but I think Zvonereva won simply because she wouldn't give up. I didn't see the match, but talking to a friend who sat through the whole thing it was a dog fight. He must be thrilled today.

disposablehero
Jun 1st, 2003, 09:56 PM
So that's one match you base your judgement on?? From now on let's say Zvonareva is the better one of Venus, what surface they play on what so ever, you just saw it today! So that's settled :)

Done. Zvonareva is a better player than Venus, no doubt about it. Maybe if they don't meet again we can reassess the situation in 6 months or so, but in the meantime Zvonareva is simply a better player than Venus. :wavey:

treufreund
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:04 PM
the difference really is that KIM just clamped down and did not MISS anymore. KIM had the answers for everything that Maggie threw at her whereas VENUS and JENN did not. Not because of the force of Vera's shots either. it was the placement and often the constant changing pace and spins. Venus missed several forehands off of slice, loopers, hard hit shots, depth. Maggie definitely could have bothered or beaten venus. she has already done so and yes Mags does have a lot of feel and instincts which counts for A TON. Vera seems to have a healthy dose of that too.

But Clijsters is just on a different level than Venus was today. the way Kim handled the shots that Maggie made her deal and the good SERVING and RETURNING that Kim did against Maggie are things that the VENUS OF TODAY'S MATCH would not have been able to do against Mags. That's the difference. Vera's game was not at all just about hard hitting!

Jericho
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:06 PM
But this is clay, and Venus never won a clay match against Kim, so I don't see what's idiotic about it. Even more because Kim has improved a lot the last 7-8 months.

yeah thats why you should look at their previous match, which in the 7-8 month range that you are talking about...and who won? ;)

Schalckske
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:09 PM
yeah thats why you should look at their previous match, which in the 7-8 month range that you are talking about...and who won? ;)

even if they would have met 10 times, and venus would have won al 10, still kim would have a chance...
1) 1 victory on the right place on the right moment is enough
2) kim is not playing worse as last year whereas venus is coming out of injury, the conditions are different...

Jericho
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:12 PM
even if they would have met 10 times, and venus would have won al 10, still kim would have a chance...
1) 1 victory on the right place on the right moment is enough
2) kim is not playing worse as last year whereas venus is coming out of injury, the conditions are different...

i think i need glasses, cuz i dont see your point :confused:

disposablehero
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:12 PM
yeah thats why you should look at their previous match, which in the 7-8 month range that you are talking about...and who won? ;)

I think when the world #3 fails to advance to a potential meeting with the world #2 by losing to a player outside the top 20, the #2 player shouldn't have anything to prove.

starr
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:14 PM
Funny how some fans are quick to claim their player was "off," but never realize that other players can be off too. Kim had a dreadful spring and summer because of her arm. She definitely wasn't playing her best after Hamburg and through the summer. But nevermind, some people are never going to ever give any credit to someone who might beat Serena or Venus.

starr
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:14 PM
i think i need glasses, cuz i dont see your point :confused:


I'm not surprised.

starr
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:16 PM
I think when the world #3 fails to advance to a potential meeting with the world #2 by losing to a player outside the top 20, the #2 player shouldn't have anything to prove.


Stands and applauds.

:worship:

Jericho
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:17 PM
I think when the world #3 fails to advance to a potential meeting with the world #2 by losing to a player outside the top 20, the #2 player shouldn't have anything to prove.

oh ok, i see...you dont have to beat the player to prove you are better than them... :worship:

Schalckske
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:17 PM
i think i need glasses, cuz i dont see your point :confused:

:wavey: let me explain :D

you were just saying that venus won over kim in their last matches, and that if they would have met in the semis, that venus would have won,
at least, that's what i understand out of your previous posts.

Well with my post , i'm saying that the match in antwerp, or all other matches between them don't affect the possibility of kim beating venus if they would have met... atleast, that's my opinion

Jericho
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:20 PM
Funny how some fans are quick to claim their player was "off," but never realize that other players can be off too. Kim had a dreadful spring and summer because of her arm.

good example of a hypocritical post :wavey:

disposablehero
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:22 PM
oh ok, i see...you dont have to beat the player to prove you are better than them... :worship:

That is correct. Serena had a potential 4th round matchup with Sarah Taylor. Serena proved she was better than Taylor without the match actually taking place. That Serena is in fact a better player than Taylor may explain why she ended up beating the player who beat the player that beat Taylor. If Kim ends up beating one of the Russians in the Semis, are you going to give Venus a free pass for not being able to do so?

disposablehero
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:24 PM
good example of a hypocritical post :wavey:

Yes, suggesting players other than the Williams have off days is extremely hypocritical, not to mention completely at odds with the laws of physics, biology, and chemistry.

Jericho
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:31 PM
That is correct. Serena had a potential 4th round matchup with Sarah Taylor. Serena proved she was better than Taylor without the match actually taking place. That Serena is in fact a better player than Taylor may explain why she ended up beating the player who beat the player that beat Taylor. If Kim ends up beating one of the Russians in the Semis, are you going to give Venus a free pass for not being able to do so?

oh i see, so when Justine lost in the first round of the French, Virginie Razzano was the better player...i get it now, so you assume that player who reaches the next round is better regardless of injury or even playing style! Magnificent Logic!

disposablehero
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:37 PM
oh i see, so when Justine lost in the first round of the French, Virginie Razzano was the better player...i get it now, so you assume that player who reaches the next round is better regardless of injury or even playing style! Magnificent Logic!

To be precise, what I am saying is that winning does not make Kim a worse player than Venus.

Jericho
Jun 1st, 2003, 10:42 PM
To be precise, what I am saying is that winning does not make Kim a worse player than Venus.

is what you were trying to get at all along??? :rolleyes:

jenglisbe
Jun 1st, 2003, 11:30 PM
While head-to-heads are always fun and even significant, they aren't everything. For instance, Lindsay has always/often had trouble with Conchita Martinez, but that doesn't make Conchita a better player than Lindsay. Who has more major titles? Lindsay. Who has been #1? Lindsay.

Now, in the past 8 months, Kim has won the Champtionships, beat Serena, won two Tier 1 titles, and won 4-5 other titles.
In the past 8 months Venus hasn't won any big tournaments, hasn't beaten Serena, and has won one smaller tournament.

Enough said.

Lisbeth
Jun 2nd, 2003, 12:15 AM
Kim rose to the occasion and did what she had to do to win despite a bad start - that's what matters to me.

Cariaoke
Jun 2nd, 2003, 01:23 AM
um, anyway... Kim is still in the tournament, as well as Serena, Amelie, Justine and Chanda. Venus, Jen and Lindsay are out. The people that beat them deserve to still be in the tournament.

bottom line. but I'll let you guys continue arguing. *pops popcorn*

Ted of Teds Tennis
Jun 2nd, 2003, 01:25 AM
Disposable Hero wrote:
Done. Zvonareva is a better player than Venus, no doubt about it. Maybe if they don't meet again we can reassess the situation in 6 months or so, but in the meantime Zvonareva is simply a better player than Venus.

By that standard, shouldn't we also say that Sonya Jeyaseelan and Babsi Schwartz are also better than Venus Williams? :D :p

And Clarisa Fernández is better than Clijsters, I suppose. ;)

joao
Jun 2nd, 2003, 02:30 AM
Oh please .... Maleeva totally hates clay and I was shocked that she bagelled Kim in the 1st set. Kim must have been sleeping during that 1st set. Even an injured Venus would have beaten Maleeva. MAleeva has a winning record against Venus but it's an indoors winning record ... Venus is way better than Maleeva on clay!

kku
Jun 2nd, 2003, 03:20 AM
Done. Zvonareva is a better player than Venus, no doubt about it. Maybe if they don't meet again we can reassess the situation in 6 months or so, but in the meantime Zvonareva is simply a better player than Venus. :wavey:

Mmmmm hmmmm..........and pigs will fly. And hotdogs will grow on trees. And Jennifer will invite Serena over for a cup of coffee.

Peridotpixie
Jun 2nd, 2003, 04:03 AM
Well, we can all "would've, could've" until the end of time, but the fact is we'll never know what would have happened if it had come down to Kim vs. Venus, or for that matter what would have happened if it had been Jennifer vs. Venus. In order to play the semi Kim against Venus, both girls had to get there, and Venus didn't. Not Kim's fault. As many have said, you can only beat the person on the other side of the net. Clijsters can't control who that person is; all she can control is her game. For that matter, Clijsters can't really control her seeding, either. What is she going to do, tell them not to give her the number 2 seed? That's in Venus' hands as well. The point is, at the end of the day, Clijsters didn't make this draw. She's just playing it.

harloo
Jun 2nd, 2003, 04:09 AM
The fact remains that Kim is vulnerable like everyone else, and being bageled by Maggie in the first set proved this. Maggie caved in like most of the players going against a top player does. Jen and Venus had opponents who did not. It's all the luck of the draw, and kim was fortunate to get through after that crushing first set.

o0O0o
Jun 2nd, 2003, 04:38 AM
LOL. It's not as though Kim even struggled in her match. After the dreadful first set, Kim was back to crushing Maleeva. Really, it was almost as though the first set never happened.

persond
Jun 2nd, 2003, 04:38 AM
Could someone please "enlighten me" on the point and purpose of this thread...??? Has someone suggested that it's "Kim's fault", that Venus is no.3 and Kim's no.2...??? And what's all the "brouhaha" over who's better Kim or Venus, when neither has played each other since "antwerp"...??? Disposable did you purposefully initiate this thread to start a "ruckus" between Venus' fans and Kim's fans???

Arguing over who is better is rather "pointless" at this juncture of the tournament, and proves absolutely nothing since Kim and Venus will not meet during the tournament. On the issue of how much Kim plays versus how much Venus plays, to me is essentially "moot". The number of tournaments each player is responsible for has been determined by the WTA, and each player decides on what tournaments they will participate in. How many or how less the number of tournaments is entirely up to the player. It's just that simple. If Kim plays "more" tourneys, that is entirely her business. Likewise with Venus' schedule.

I guess, after all that's said and done, what the "phuck" does it matter. The rankings are what they are. Venus and only Venus is responsible for how many tournaments she will play. If her rankind drops to no.15, Venus has no one to "blame" but Venus. (It might eventually prove a "bummer" for the higher ranked players when the seeds are announced)

So enough of this tireless argument already...!!!

persond
Jun 2nd, 2003, 04:40 AM
LOL. It's not as though Kim even struggled in her match. After the dreadful first set, Kim was back to crushing Maleeva. Really, it was almost as though the first set never happened.


And, just like that, you ignore the "entire 1st set...???...!!! Oh, it never really happened...!!! OKAY...!!!

BasicTennis
Jun 2nd, 2003, 04:44 AM
And, just like that, you ignore the "entire 1st set...???...!!! Oh, it never really happened...!!! OKAY...!!!
definetely, 'coz if Kim has taken the first set badly then she could not performed better in the next two sets....as true champion, you'll have to remain positive and that's what kim exactly did with great results. :worship:

o0O0o
Jun 2nd, 2003, 04:45 AM
If Kim fought her way back I would be interested. But Kim didn't fight, rather, she trounced Maggie and if you showed up at the court at the beginning of the second you would think it was another routine romping from Kim.

irma
Jun 2nd, 2003, 05:07 AM
if kim had beaten petrova or zvonereva people had said it was the luck of the draw too :o (10000000 % sure)

and don't say kim had lost for sure. you don't know that since she didn't play them :o

o0O0o
Jun 2nd, 2003, 05:11 AM
I know...Kim plays a top 15 player while Venus & Jen get top 80/20 players respectively and Kim has the easy match? Wow. Nevermind the top players Maggie has beaten in the past year compared to the top players Nadia/Vera have beaten.

1jackson2001
Jun 2nd, 2003, 06:10 AM
No you're wrong, it IS Kim's fault...it's all her fault I tell you!


;)

Couver
Jun 2nd, 2003, 06:17 AM
I have to agree with Persond....I don't think a lot of people are blaming Kim for anything. She's doing her job as a tennis player, just like all the other tennis players. This is a tournament, and only one person can win, so at some point in time all the rest are going to loose.

As for who is better?? Does it really matter the top ten are so close these days that they split matches left and right so arguing and arguing is pointless. All I see in this thread are some fans from both sides fanning flames that were never there.

fifiricci
Jun 2nd, 2003, 09:06 AM
Lets face it, the Venus fans in here are just whingeing because their baby lost and they cant take it (boo hoo runm home to mummy), so they have to attack Kim and the other 4th round winners.

Putting forward all these hypothetical "if" arguments is a complete waste of time.

GROW UP WILL YOU!!!!

XMan
Jun 2nd, 2003, 09:46 AM
the difference really is that KIM just clamped down and did not MISS anymore. KIM had the answers for everything that Maggie threw at her whereas VENUS and JENN did not. Not because of the force of Vera's shots either. it was the placement and often the constant changing pace and spins. Venus missed several forehands off of slice, loopers, hard hit shots, depth. Maggie definitely could have bothered or beaten venus. she has already done so and yes Mags does have a lot of feel and instincts which counts for A TON. Vera seems to have a healthy dose of that too.

But Clijsters is just on a different level than Venus was today. the way Kim handled the shots that Maggie made her deal and the good SERVING and RETURNING that Kim did against Maggie are things that the VENUS OF TODAY'S MATCH would not have been able to do against Mags. That's the difference. Vera's game was not at all just about hard hitting!

I completely agree Truefreund. Well said.

treufreund
Jun 2nd, 2003, 10:39 AM
thanks XMan. :D

fifiricci
Jun 2nd, 2003, 01:22 PM
:rolleyes: at this thread. everything you said, is bascially summed up, that kim is where she is b/c of venus.

if all in all, you have to give Kim credit of her results with the point of venus added, its clear, although its not kims fault, you could say its venus' fault that she is where she is right now.

Oh for fucks sake shuddup will you!

maccardel
Jun 2nd, 2003, 01:57 PM
It's not Kim's fault the number of tournaments the Williams play to get their rankings.

It's also not Kim's fault that she is the only top 20 player left in the bottom half of the draw.

However, it is Kim's fault that being the only top 20 player no longer looks like a free pass to the Final, after today's performance.

yes it is her fault.
:D

irma
Jun 2nd, 2003, 02:05 PM
everything is kim's fault. she took over from another player who happened to be my fav too but really I was not awared of this when I started to root for her. it's just faith :angel:

Hawk
Jun 2nd, 2003, 02:45 PM
bottom line. but I'll let you guys continue arguing. *pops popcorn*

lol :p

Can I have some? :lick: