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View Full Version : Is Kimmy the next Martina Hingis??


moon
May 13th, 2003, 01:31 AM
A few years ago there was alot of talk of Martina Hingis being number 1 "in name only". She wasn't beating either of the Williams sisters consistently but she won a bunch of other tournaments where they weren't entered.

Well, fast forward to 2003 and nowthere has been a lot of talk of Kim overtaking Venus lately, but IMHO it's in ranking points only. All you have to do is look at their head to head lately to see who is the better player. The fact of the matter is, the only reason that Kim is anywhere near Venus is because Venus hasn't played, i.e. 2000, or 2001. Kim beat Venus in Hamburg last year, but then the next time they played Venus withdrew due to injury. The last time they played this year Kim got dusted 6-4, 6-2. She was also beaten by Serena the last 2 times they played. So the question begs to be asked, is Kim number 2 in name only?

debate and discuss :)

WhatTheDeuce
May 13th, 2003, 01:34 AM
martina hingis will never be duplicated. she was a spectacular, unique player whom nobody can compare to in terms or talent...that's all i have to say...kim would rather be known as the frist kim clijsters, rather than the second hingis...

but they both couldn't challenge the sisters CONSISTENTLY while they were on tour...thats the only similarity really...

selesfan
May 13th, 2003, 01:36 AM
Its not Kim's fault that Venus doesn't play a full schedule to begin with and that Venus is injured. The difference between Kim and Martina is that at the time Martina was #1, Venus had won 2 grand slams for the year. This is not the case now, Kim won the championships last year and also has a tier 1 win this year. Unfortunately, Venus has not won a tier 1 this year.

JoeyWinson3.0
May 13th, 2003, 01:36 AM
There isn't and will never be a "new" Martina Hingis. Case closed.

kell
May 13th, 2003, 01:42 AM
Kimmy is the next Kimmy. Don't compare players to others in that way. No one is the next anyone. Each player has a slightly unique style and situations and circumstances are different for each player.

moon
May 13th, 2003, 01:51 AM
I am comparing their situations, NOT their tennis styles. Sheesh! You guys really need to lay off the coffee.

WhatTheDeuce
May 13th, 2003, 01:57 AM
I am comparing their situations, NOT their tennis styles. Sheesh! You guys really need to lay off the coffee.
LOL...well in THAT case i say they are slightly similar, yes ;)

Flatstat
May 13th, 2003, 02:30 AM
You answered your own Question. Kim has won 2 of the Last 3 times they met. So she is the deserved Number 2

selesfan
May 13th, 2003, 03:14 AM
I am comparing their situations, NOT their tennis styles. Sheesh! You guys really need to lay off the coffee.

I understood your question. ;)

Gowza
May 13th, 2003, 03:40 AM
i agree that venus hasn't played much and kim has taken advantage of that. she is arguably the #2 player because put it like this. could venus play at the level she does for the amount of time kim has played? kim has played lots of tournaments and done well in all of them, if venus was to play the same amount of tournaments and have the same schedule (play tournaments equal days/weeks apart as kim) would venus be able to keep up her level of play like kim has been able to?

unless this actually happens we will never find out. venus maybe have a high level of play/quality than kim but she doesn't play for as long. kim has a lower level of play/quality but plays more tournaments and more matches.

banana
May 13th, 2003, 04:12 AM
in order to b at the top of the game u have 2 b ready to take advantage of ur oppurtunities and venus hasn't done that!!! imo she doesn't deserve the no.2 spot

Dawn Marie
May 13th, 2003, 04:30 AM
Venus if ranked #2 deserves it. Just like if Kim plays alot and is ranked #2 and wins she desrves it too. Personally Venus is blessed to be able to play few tourneys and be ranked high. I mean right now in 2004 she will have some to defend but also have enough leeway to add add and add. Kim is alot like Hingis in that her game has turned into defense more so that offense. Kim is also ranked cause she goes deep in draws and plays many tourneys. She is also ranked #2 because Venus didn't play alot of tennis. Which of course is not Kim's fault or problem, but imho psychologically Kim knows Venus should be ranked #2 and Venus knows it as well. The thing is Venus has been there and done that and has even been #1 something that imho will be alot harder for others to accomplish as long as Serena is still around.

SerenaSlam
May 13th, 2003, 04:35 AM
i agree that venus hasn't played much and kim has taken advantage of that. she is arguably the #2 player because put it like this. could venus play at the level she does for the amount of time kim has played? kim has played lots of tournaments and done well in all of them, if venus was to play the same amount of tournaments and have the same schedule (play tournaments equal days/weeks apart as kim) would venus be able to keep up her level of play like kim has been able to?

unless this actually happens we will never find out. venus maybe have a high level of play/quality than kim but she doesn't play for as long. kim has a lower level of play/quality but plays more tournaments and more matches.
that was a very good point, but explain where the need is? for if venus had played 1 more tournie, (understand you could still arugue your point) Kim would not even gotten the Chance to look at number 2, so really you can't say venus playing the same tournies as kim consistenly would even things out. I think 13-15 tournies, if you have done as well as Venus Williams has done, w/out a doubt you should and can be at the top of the game, even ahead of someone doing good in 20 + tournies. Asking what is the difference? The Difference is, in just about all tournie comparison, Venus has done better than Kim Clijsters so far. And b/c Venus didn't play 1 tournie, and the other was Cancelled, her number 2 spot was given up. Now I could actually understand Kim deserving of number 2 if Venus had skipped like 5 tounies, than Kim would deserve her number 2 spot, but it is very clear, than b/c of 1 tournie, venus lost number 2.

And I don't believe with the quote of......."inorder to b at the top of the game u have 2 b ready to take advantage of ur opportunites........."
that sounds more like ignorance, when you follow it up w/ Venus hasn't done it, (1 tounie? pleazee)

The quote should be, inorder to get to the top of the game, you have to go through the top, consistenly beat them, beat everyone else, and hold ur own when you get there.

Something Serena has done, and something Venus has done, and Something kim has done. Serena owns the top spot, she beats everyone ranked below her, does not loose on a regular basis, Venus, same, but looses a lil more often that Serena, and the same thing goes for kim. Venus problem is Serena and Kim's problem is Serena and Venus.

Dawn Marie
May 13th, 2003, 04:39 AM
bananna, if u talk of taking opportunities then u forgot about Kim and the one's she lost as well.

Gowza
May 13th, 2003, 04:43 AM
SerenaSlam, the need? it would prove how far apart the two players are and then no one will be able to say kim is #2 because she played so much or venus is #3 because she played so little.

SerenaSlam
May 13th, 2003, 04:50 AM
or vice versa in, venus played average (not little) and is number 2, and kim played a lot and is number 3, that is the case still, we are just talking about 1 tournie not played by Venus. Do you realize this? 1 Tournie is making the difference? not like 5 or 6 tounies?

SerenaSlam
May 13th, 2003, 04:51 AM
and if you are wondering how i can say something like that, and have proof, you can look at Serena's ranking. She has done about the same as Venus, but winning the slams, she has gotten of 2000 extra points than Venus from being the "winner" And seeing everyone is bringing up the point of Venus not winning Tier 1's, isn't Miami Venus' only Tier 1 the entire year? For Like the last 2-3 years? I believe so :)

Gowza
May 13th, 2003, 04:58 AM
SerenaSlam, yeah i understand it is one tournie but if everything is even for both players then no one can complain that the lower ranked player is really the better player. (btw i think venus is the better player)

Chance
May 13th, 2003, 05:16 AM
Kim has won 2 out of the last 5 times they have played.

Kim won hamburg
Venus won Standford
Venus won Acura
Kim won season ending champs(Venus was injured)
Venus won Antwerp

It's not Kim's fault that Venus has reduced her schedule, Kim is in good form and is getting deep into the draws thus her ranking has improved.
Yes Venus has helped her out by not playing but that's Venus choice. I agree with selesfan when Martina was no.1 she was slamless while Venus had 2 grand slams. Also she started to have trouble not only with Venus and Serena but with Lindsay and
Jen. Lately Kim seems to be able to handle Lindsay's game quite well and just defeated Jen and neither Venus or Kim's ranking includes a grand slam title.

The only thing I have a problem with is that Kim's French Open and Wimbledon reseult are not included in her rankings, while Venus has been a runner up in the last 4 slams. However it's not Kim fault that there is a flaw in the ranking system.

Fingon
May 13th, 2003, 05:51 AM
it looks to me it's a far fetched comparisson.

So, any player ranked ahead of another player who consistently beats her is Martina Hingis?

also the argument that Venus is better than Kim based on the head-to-head isn't very strong, since Kim won 2 of the last 3 matches, take out LA and they are still 1-1.

And the argument that Serena beat Kim the last two times is just laughable, Serena beat Venus the last 5 times they played, in fact, if you are going to weight head-to-head against Serena then Kim is the better player since she has beaten Serena recently and Venus hasn't.

And notice I don't even like Kim.

disposablehero
May 13th, 2003, 06:00 AM
Its not Kim's fault that Venus doesn't play a full schedule to begin with and that Venus is injured. The difference between Kim and Martina is that at the time Martina was #1, Venus had won 2 grand slams for the year. This is not the case now, Kim won the championships last year and also has a tier 1 win this year. Unfortunately, Venus has not won a tier 1 this year.

Exactly. Kim's recent accomplishments can't touch Serena, but they look fairly comparable to Venus. (Yes, being in 6 of 7 Slam Finals is outstanding. But she hasn't won any titles comparable to Kim's bigger ones since 2001.)

Dawn Marie
May 13th, 2003, 07:07 AM
People u aren't taking into account on who Venus has beaten as well. Alot of her tournaments have been quality opponents. She has played many a quality opponent last year and this year. Venus's opponents this year have been tougher than Kim's. last year as well.

Kim's draws have been cakewalk comparable to Venus's. Just look at her Roma draw.. I mean.. it's laughable.

King Lindsay
May 13th, 2003, 07:14 AM
but they both couldn't challenge the sisters CONSISTENTLY while they were on tour...thats the only similarity really...

Wasn't aware that Kim had retired. Oh wait, she hasn't. Perhaps you should reserve your judgments until all is said and done.

Zhao
May 13th, 2003, 07:17 AM
there can never another Martina Hingis around...so intelligent n witful (y din she teach Jenn a thing or two??)

Like i always say give credit to every player....that includes Kim whom, besides Jenn, seems to be able to trouble both Williams on all occasions...

King Lindsay
May 13th, 2003, 07:19 AM
and if you are wondering how i can say something like that, and have proof, you can look at Serena's ranking. She has done about the same as Venus, but winning the slams, she has gotten of 2000 extra points than Venus from being the "winner" And seeing everyone is bringing up the point of Venus not winning Tier 1's, isn't Miami Venus' only Tier 1 the entire year? For Like the last 2-3 years? I believe so :)

Pretty close. This year, she's so far only played Miami, last year she played just Miami and Moscow. 2001 she played Indian Wells and Miami.... and I think that's it. Man, Serena sure must've played a good game of rock paper scissors when they drew up their schedules. Cuz you know that's how they do it, right?

King Lindsay
May 13th, 2003, 07:22 AM
there can never another Martina Hingis around...so intelligent n witful (y din she teach Jenn a thing or two??)

Like i always say give credit to every player....that includes Kim whom, besides Jenn, seems to be able to trouble both Williams on all occasions...

Yes, she taught Jen how to be very "witful".

Again, the guy wasn't comparing their tennis games or personalities, just their current ranking situation. Although it's not even a very good comparison, I don't really understand why 3 or 4 people misunderstood it.

gentenaire
May 13th, 2003, 07:33 AM
Kim managed to beat Serena, something Venus was unable to do.

I agree with Dawn though. Anyone who gets to the #2 ranking deserves it.

Zhao
May 13th, 2003, 07:37 AM
Yes, she taught Jen how to be very "witful".

Again, the guy wasn't comparing their tennis games or personalities, just their current ranking situation. Although it's not even a very good comparison, I don't really understand why 3 or 4 people misunderstood it.

i mean witty... :o :o
despite playing more tourneys but Kim does achieve great results
n i did mention she is able to challenge the Williams on a regular basis
something Hingis could not do towards the later part of her career
i did not misunderstood it at all....

King Lindsay
May 13th, 2003, 07:40 AM
i mean witty... :o :o
despite playing more tourneys but Kim does achieve great results
n i did mention she is able to challenge the Williams on a regular basis
something Hingis could not do towards the later part of her career
i did not misunderstood it at all....

If you understood it perfectly, why did you starting talking about how hingis is irreplaceable, blah blah blah? Just an irrelevant thought you wanted to throw in?

Zhao
May 13th, 2003, 07:44 AM
Hingis is intelligent enouff to play lots of tourney to maintain her no1 status...... put Hingis in Kim's situation n i m sure the Willams will have even a tougher time...

Zhao
May 13th, 2003, 07:45 AM
i do not see the need to start an uproar here...
n i will no longer respond.... :)

King Lindsay
May 13th, 2003, 07:46 AM
Hingis is intelligent enouff to play lots of tourney to maintain her no1 status...... put Hingis in Kim's situation n i m sure the Willams will have even a tougher time...

uhhh, right.

King Lindsay
May 13th, 2003, 07:47 AM
i do not see the need to start an uproar here...
n i will no longer respond.... :)

There is always the need for an uproar.

moby
May 13th, 2003, 07:50 AM
well, venus and serena are smart to play so few tournaments

their opponents have very few opportunities to practice against them
or to even analyse their play

that is the risk you expose yourself to if you play too much

Dawn Marie
May 13th, 2003, 08:42 AM
Uh.. excuse me? Kim was able to beat Serena something Venus was unable to do? Do u all look at head2heads or focus on what you want to see?

Venus has beaten Serena, and Venus took a set off of Serena this year the same thing Kim did. Oh and Venus has beaten Kim(THIS YEAR) and Kim hasn't beaten Venus this year. So if u wish to go by this year Venus is 1/0 on Kim.

You all make it seem that if Kim doesn't start winning slams that she will rise in rank? Justine is more a threat than Kim is these days..IMHO that is. Infact I think if anyone were to STAY at #2 outside of Venus it will be Justine. Kim game is defensive anymore... and frankly I don't her winning a slam on a decent draw with that kind of game. She just gets the ball back and waits for the error. Now I do think Kim is a great player, and she deserves to be ranked #2. I am not so sure about her winning any of the grandslams yet this year.. THAT goes to Venus.:);)

Dawn Marie
May 13th, 2003, 08:43 AM
"easy" great post!

Whatzup
May 13th, 2003, 08:47 AM
Martina was for sure not the #1 in rankings and name only!

In 1997 she won:

* Australian Open
* Final Roland Garros
* Wimbledon
* US Open

And she one almost every tournament that year she entered so do never say that she wasn't a real #1! ... maybe the last couple of year... :D

gentenaire
May 13th, 2003, 08:51 AM
Dawn, I looked at the tournaments that count in the rankings, after all, this is a discussion about the #2 spot, right? So I looked at the past year. Jennifer's head to head against Serena's better than Kim's, this doesn't mean that Jennifer deserves to be ranked higher. This is about the past year!

Gowza
May 13th, 2003, 08:59 AM
i think ranking is based on how many people you can beat not who you can beat. some players have trouble against certain players. like serena seems to have trouble with capriati, henin was having trouble with kim, capriati keeps losing to stevenson but we don't say stevenson should be ranked as high as capriati.

Mercury Rising
May 13th, 2003, 10:18 AM
People u aren't taking into account on who Venus has beaten as well. Alot of her tournaments have been quality opponents. She has played many a quality opponent last year and this year. Venus's opponents this year have been tougher than Kim's. last year as well.

Kim's draws have been cakewalk comparable to Venus's. Just look at her Roma draw.. I mean.. it's laughable.
Roma isn't even played yet!

Kim this year:

Sydney Jan 12 2003
1 K Clijsters(2) bye
2 K Clijsters(2) - P Schnyder 6-1 6-3
QF K Clijsters(2) - C Rubin(7) 6-1 6-2
SF K Clijsters(2) - J Henin-Hardenne(3) 6-2 6-3
F K Clijsters(2) - L Davenport(6) 6-4 6-3

Australian Open Jan 26 2003
1 K Clijsters(4) - S Reeves 6-2 6-1
2 K Clijsters(4) - P Mandula 6-0 6-0
3 K Clijsters(4) - T Poutchek 6-2 6-1
4 K Clijsters(4) - A Coetzer(19) 6-3 6-1
QF K Clijsters(4) - A Myskina(8) 6-2 6-4
SF S Williams(1) - K Clijsters(4) 4-6 6-3 7-5

Antwerp Feb 16 2003
1 K Clijsters(2) bye
2 K Clijsters(2) - M Casanova 6-3 6-2
QF K Clijsters(2) - P Schnyder(7) 7-5 6-1
SF K Clijsters(2) - J Henin-Hardenne(3) 6-2 7-63
F V Williams(1) - K Clijsters(2) 6-2 6-4

Scottsdale Mar 2 2003
1 K Clijsters(2) bye
2 K Clijsters(2) - C Black 6-2 6-3
QF K Clijsters(2) - L Granville 6-3 6-3
SF K Clijsters(2) - M Shaughnessy 6-3 7-5
F A Sugiyama - K Clijsters(2) 3-6 7-5 6-4

Indian Wells Mar 16 2003
1 K Clijsters(1) bye
2 K Clijsters(1) - F Zuluaga 6-3 7-5
3 K Clijsters(1) - F Schiavone(31) 7-5 6-4
4 K Clijsters(1) - N Dechy(15) 6-3 3-6 6-1
QF K Clijsters(1) - C Rubin(8) 6-2 6-3
SF K Clijsters(1) - C Martinez(26) 6-3 6-2
F K Clijsters(1) - L Davenport(4) 6-4 7-5

Key Biscayne Mar 30 2003
1 K Clijsters(3) bye
2 K Clijsters(3) - Y Cho 6-2 6-2
3 K Clijsters(3) - P Suarez(27) 6-2 6-2
4 K Clijsters(3) - A Pistolesi(15) 6-1 6-1
QF K Clijsters(3) - J Dokic(9) 6-2 6-0
SF S Williams(1) - K Clijsters(3) 6-4 6-2

Berlin May 11 2003
1 K Clijsters(1) bye
2 K Clijsters(1) - E Loit 6-4 6-2
3 K Clijsters(1) - F Zuluaga-Q 7-5 6-3
QF K Clijsters(1) - D Hantuchova(7) 6-0 6-3
SF K Clijsters(1) - J Capriati(4) 6-4 6-72 6-4
F J Henin-Hardenne(3) - K Clijsters(1) 4-6 6-4 7-5

Venus this year:

Australian Open Jan 26 2003
1 V Williams(2) - S Kuznetsova 6-4 6-2
2 V Williams(2) - A Cargill-Q 6-3 6-0
3 V Williams(2) - A Barna 6-1 6-4
4 V Williams(2) - N Pratt 6-3 6-2
QF V Williams(2) - D Hantuchova(7) 6-4 6-3
SF V Williams(2) - J Henin-Hardenne(5) 6-3 6-3
F S Williams(1) - V Williams(2) 7-64 3-6 6-4

Antwerp Feb 16 2003
1 V Williams(1) bye
2 V Williams(1) - M Matevzic 6-1 6-1
QF V Williams(1) - T Pisnik 6-1 6-4
SF V Williams(1) - D Hantuchova(4) 6-1 6-4
F V Williams(1) - K Clijsters(2) 6-2 6-4

Key Biscayne Mar 30 2003
1 V Williams(2) bye
2 V Williams(2) - S Asagoe 6-3 6-1
3 V Williams(2) - E Gagliardi 6-3 6-2
4 M Shaughnessy(23) - V Williams(2) 7-62 6-1

Warsaw May 4 2003
1 V Williams(1) bye
2 V Williams(1) - Z Ondraskova-Q 6-2 6-3
QF V Williams(1) - F Schiavone 2-6 6-3 6-3
SF V Williams(1) - D Chladkova 6-3 7-65
F A Mauresmo(2) - V Williams(1) 6-76 6-0 3-0


I don't see a big difference in draw difficulty :confused:

Gowza
May 13th, 2003, 10:33 AM
clijsters' draws actually look harder which surprises me.

Mercury Rising
May 13th, 2003, 10:40 AM
clijsters' draws actually look harder which surprises me.
It's just that people "think" that Kim's draws are easier, but they clearly aren't.

rikvanlooy
May 13th, 2003, 10:54 AM
Roma isn't even played yet!

Kim this year:

Sydney Jan 12 2003
1 K Clijsters(2) bye
2 K Clijsters(2) - P Schnyder 6-1 6-3
QF K Clijsters(2) - C Rubin(7) 6-1 6-2
SF K Clijsters(2) - J Henin-Hardenne(3) 6-2 6-3
F K Clijsters(2) - L Davenport(6) 6-4 6-3

Australian Open Jan 26 2003
1 K Clijsters(4) - S Reeves 6-2 6-1
2 K Clijsters(4) - P Mandula 6-0 6-0
3 K Clijsters(4) - T Poutchek 6-2 6-1
4 K Clijsters(4) - A Coetzer(19) 6-3 6-1
QF K Clijsters(4) - A Myskina(8) 6-2 6-4
SF S Williams(1) - K Clijsters(4) 4-6 6-3 7-5

Antwerp Feb 16 2003
1 K Clijsters(2) bye
2 K Clijsters(2) - M Casanova 6-3 6-2
QF K Clijsters(2) - P Schnyder(7) 7-5 6-1
SF K Clijsters(2) - J Henin-Hardenne(3) 6-2 7-63
F V Williams(1) - K Clijsters(2) 6-2 6-4

Scottsdale Mar 2 2003
1 K Clijsters(2) bye
2 K Clijsters(2) - C Black 6-2 6-3
QF K Clijsters(2) - L Granville 6-3 6-3
SF K Clijsters(2) - M Shaughnessy 6-3 7-5
F A Sugiyama - K Clijsters(2) 3-6 7-5 6-4

Indian Wells Mar 16 2003
1 K Clijsters(1) bye
2 K Clijsters(1) - F Zuluaga 6-3 7-5
3 K Clijsters(1) - F Schiavone(31) 7-5 6-4
4 K Clijsters(1) - N Dechy(15) 6-3 3-6 6-1
QF K Clijsters(1) - C Rubin(8) 6-2 6-3
SF K Clijsters(1) - C Martinez(26) 6-3 6-2
F K Clijsters(1) - L Davenport(4) 6-4 7-5

Key Biscayne Mar 30 2003
1 K Clijsters(3) bye
2 K Clijsters(3) - Y Cho 6-2 6-2
3 K Clijsters(3) - P Suarez(27) 6-2 6-2
4 K Clijsters(3) - A Pistolesi(15) 6-1 6-1
QF K Clijsters(3) - J Dokic(9) 6-2 6-0
SF S Williams(1) - K Clijsters(3) 6-4 6-2

Berlin May 11 2003
1 K Clijsters(1) bye
2 K Clijsters(1) - E Loit 6-4 6-2
3 K Clijsters(1) - F Zuluaga-Q 7-5 6-3
QF K Clijsters(1) - D Hantuchova(7) 6-0 6-3
SF K Clijsters(1) - J Capriati(4) 6-4 6-72 6-4
F J Henin-Hardenne(3) - K Clijsters(1) 4-6 6-4 7-5

Venus this year:

Australian Open Jan 26 2003
1 V Williams(2) - S Kuznetsova 6-4 6-2
2 V Williams(2) - A Cargill-Q 6-3 6-0
3 V Williams(2) - A Barna 6-1 6-4
4 V Williams(2) - N Pratt 6-3 6-2
QF V Williams(2) - D Hantuchova(7) 6-4 6-3
SF V Williams(2) - J Henin-Hardenne(5) 6-3 6-3
F S Williams(1) - V Williams(2) 7-64 3-6 6-4

Antwerp Feb 16 2003
1 V Williams(1) bye
2 V Williams(1) - M Matevzic 6-1 6-1
QF V Williams(1) - T Pisnik 6-1 6-4
SF V Williams(1) - D Hantuchova(4) 6-1 6-4
F V Williams(1) - K Clijsters(2) 6-2 6-4

Key Biscayne Mar 30 2003
1 V Williams(2) bye
2 V Williams(2) - S Asagoe 6-3 6-1
3 V Williams(2) - E Gagliardi 6-3 6-2
4 M Shaughnessy(23) - V Williams(2) 7-62 6-1

Warsaw May 4 2003
1 V Williams(1) bye
2 V Williams(1) - Z Ondraskova-Q 6-2 6-3
QF V Williams(1) - F Schiavone 2-6 6-3 6-3
SF V Williams(1) - D Chladkova 6-3 7-65
F A Mauresmo(2) - V Williams(1) 6-76 6-0 3-0


I don't see a big difference in draw difficulty :confused:

I do see a difference :

Kim :

Top 5 : 8
6-10 : 6
11-20 : 6

Venus :

Top 5 : 3
6-10 : 3
11-20 : 1

Venus hasn't played a lot of top players this year.

Mercury Rising
May 13th, 2003, 11:19 AM
I do see a difference :

Kim :

Top 5 : 8
6-10 : 6
11-20 : 6

Venus :

Top 5 : 3
6-10 : 3
11-20 : 1

Venus hasn't played a lot of top players this year.
Yeah, but Venus also played less tournaments.

Cybelle Darkholme
May 13th, 2003, 01:08 PM
This thread makes no sense. If you have the points then you deserve your ranking. If your peers don't play enough or play too much then thats their issue to deal with. IMO venus doesn't truly give a damn about the rankings. Oh maybe in some ethereal dreamy "number one would be nice" sort of way but not in a tangible what do I need to get the points I need. Venus wants grandslams. Venus wants titles. Thats it.


The only williams sister concerned about the ranking is serena because serena loves being number one. If venus was ten in the world I doubt she'd care as long as she was happy and healthy and winning titles.

DA FOREHAND
May 13th, 2003, 04:56 PM
i agree that venus hasn't played much and kim has taken advantage of that. she is arguably the #2 player because put it like this. could venus play at the level she does for the amount of time kim has played? kim has played lots of tournaments and done well in all of them, if venus was to play the same amount of tournaments and have the same schedule (play tournaments equal days/weeks apart as kim) would venus be able to keep up her level of play like kim has been able to?

unless this actually happens we will never find out. venus maybe have a high level of play/quality than kim but she doesn't play for as long. kim has a lower level of play/quality but plays more tournaments and more matches.


You have absolutely no point!!! Venus doesn't need to circle the globe wearing herself out. QUALITY over Qauntity. The only player with a better record over the last twelve months is Serena. Not Kim, not Justine, or anyone else.

Put a diff. spin on your scenario, and factor in four zeros to Kim's points, and where does that put her ranking? Would she still be in the top ten?

moon
May 14th, 2003, 01:05 AM
Cybelle, the point of this thread was not that Venus is worried about her ranking. I doubt that she is losing any sleep over it. Hell, I'm not worried about it either. I'm actually thinking she'll win Wimbledon while ranked #4. but i digress...;)

anyway, Kimmy deserves #2 if she gets the points. I just think that Venus is still the better player based on their head to head.

PhoenixStorm
May 14th, 2003, 03:17 PM
Cybelle, the point of this thread was not that Venus is worried about her ranking. I doubt that she is losing any sleep over it. Hell, I'm not worried about it either. I'm actually thinking she'll win Wimbledon while ranked #4. but i digress...;)

anyway, Kimmy deserves #2 if she gets the points. I just think that Venus is still the better player based on their head to head.

I think if you read cybs first two sentences she answered your question. "if you have the points you deserve your ranking."