PDA

View Full Version : Kim Clijsters needs 189 points in Roma to stay #2 next week.


Hurley
May 12th, 2003, 03:34 AM
Semis may not be enough.

tenn_ace
May 12th, 2003, 03:54 AM
considering that they are not too many high ranked players in her half of the draw and she gets bye in the first round, it's probably true.

but it is still possible:

for getting to the semis 135 points
if she defeats Ruano Pascual in the second round 10 points
if she defeats Shaughnessy in the third round 23 points
if she defeats Myskina in the QF round 35 points

Total 203 points

But I'm looking at the best case scenario: no upsets in her part of the draw and she wins all the matches.

disposablehero
May 12th, 2003, 04:00 AM
Well, worst case scenario is she doesn't get it. She'll still have a shot ar the RG title anyhow, and virtual mortal certainty of the 2 seed for Wimbledon.

Dawn Marie
May 12th, 2003, 04:14 AM
Worse case scenario she'll be in the half that Venus and Serena are in. Kim won't get the #2 seed. Venus can be ranked #3 but still get the #2 seed she has played better at Wimbeldon than Kim.

WtaTour4Ever
May 12th, 2003, 04:20 AM
......Does RG adjust there seedings...didnt' think they did. I know they can, just never heard of them doing it. I personally hope they stick with the rankings.....For Vee to win she has got to go through Serena most likely anyway so to me it doesn't really matter.

Hurley
May 12th, 2003, 04:23 AM
No, they don't adjust.

Dawn Marie
May 12th, 2003, 04:24 AM
RG goes prety much by seedings but Wimbeldon does whatever they feel like. LOL

They usually go by past wins on the famous grass courts. I just can't see them seeding Kim over Venus on grass. Imho if Venus is ranked #3 she will still be seeded #2 at Wimbeldon.

WtaTour4Ever
May 12th, 2003, 04:33 AM
Ahhh ok..I thought you were talking about RG....I agree about Wimbledon though they probably will adjust Venus' seed.

ys
May 12th, 2003, 05:00 AM
Wimbledon adjusts men's seedings a lot. With women the changes are usually minimal albeit sometimes strange. I remember last year they bumped someone ( I think it was Raymond ) by like 10 places with no apparent reason..

Dawn Marie
May 12th, 2003, 05:05 AM
ys, minimal to what? maybe 5 or 10 years BEFORE Venus and Serena came around but they will do Venus just like they did Pete. Men's were messed with cause of Pete and other grass players who dominated.

Question? Did Steffie get a higher seed on grass but had a lower rank? Also prior to Venus Williams's 2 slams wins and a final who else on the WTA has dominated on grass the past 5 years or so?

anton
May 12th, 2003, 05:12 AM
Kim does not deserve the #2 seed at Paris or London.

If Kim beats Venus in Paris, then she still does not deserve it because Venus is THE ONLY player to win Wimbledon TWICE which is something Serena has not done.

As a matter of fact I would like to see Venus seeded #1 at Wimbledon! GO VENUS!!!

Dawn Marie
May 12th, 2003, 05:21 AM
anton I thought the same thing.. Venus should get the top seed. Serena though is just too dominate in winning slams to overlook. So she'll get the #1 seed where as Vee will get #2.

unless Wimbeldon... shows their "true colors" and we all know they love "white".

anton
May 12th, 2003, 05:25 AM
anton I thought the same thing.. Venus should get the top seed. Serena though is just too dominate in winning slams to overlook. So she'll get the #1 seed where as Vee will get #2.

unless Wimbeldon... shows their "true colors" and we all know they love "white".


Dawn remember didnt they refuse to seed Lori McNeil(who had won a lot of grass matches and volleys very well) but then she took Steffi out in the first round?

ys
May 12th, 2003, 06:23 AM
ys, minimal to what? maybe 5 or 10 years BEFORE Venus and Serena came around but they will do Venus just like they did Pete. Men's were messed with cause of Pete and other grass players who dominated.

Question? Did Steffie get a higher seed on grass but had a lower rank? Also prior to Venus Williams's 2 slams wins and a final who else on the WTA has dominated on grass the past 5 years or so?

It doesn't matter , Dawn.. They do not usually adjust women due to different reason. Unlike men, there are much less surface specialists in women's tennis. There are no players, who are, say, great on grass and crap on other surfaces. Therefore , no real need to adjust..

sartrista7
May 12th, 2003, 10:15 AM
anton I thought the same thing.. Venus should get the top seed. Serena though is just too dominate in winning slams to overlook. So she'll get the #1 seed where as Vee will get #2.

unless Wimbeldon... shows their "true colors" and we all know they love "white".

Dawn... don't get your hopes up for Wimbledon. The only top 10 adjustment they've ever made was for Steffi (from #3 to #2), who was a seven-time champion coming off an emotional RG win. If Venus is #3, she probably won't have won RG and is only a two-time champion. Anyway, the Steffi adjustment completely backfired when the player they bumped down - Lindsay - beat Steffi in the final, so they probably won't want to do that again.

They also adjusted Lisa Raymond and Alex Stevenson up that year (and not Tammy Tanasugarn!), which was a bit odd.

King Lindsay
May 12th, 2003, 10:47 AM
Dawn... don't get your hopes up for Wimbledon. The only top 10 adjustment they've ever made was for Steffi

That's not true.

Dawn, better prepare yourself for the reality that Venus will be ranked #4 by the time wimbledon rolls around. ;) :D

Dava
May 12th, 2003, 10:48 AM
Well I just wish Kim the best of luck! I just hope she can get the no.2 seed in RG!!

Hurley
May 12th, 2003, 01:17 PM
That's not true.

It's not true. Off the top of my head...in 1999, Pierce was ranked 8 and Tauziat was ranked 9, but they inverted those rankings (for pivotal seeding changes).

mauresmofan
May 12th, 2003, 01:30 PM
If you've seen Kims half of the draw for the Italian Open you'd see that she will be in the final on Sunday. As for Wimbeldon Venus will be seeded above Clijsters due to both their records on grass - Kim pretty bad record and Venus has a great record. Actually Kim mighn't even be ranked 3 as Justine has done very well at Wimbeldon the last 2 years. It seems fair to me as there are very good grass court players eg Novotna and then there's someone like Monica whose game doesn't adapt very well to the surface even thogh she got to the quarters last year.

Infiniti2001
May 12th, 2003, 01:31 PM
That's not true.

Dawn, better prepare yourself for the reality that Venus will be ranked #4 by the time wimbledon rolls around. ;) :D

I'm personally not stressing about Venus 's rank... She was #5 when she won in 2000, so all is good :p

starr
May 12th, 2003, 02:06 PM
The best case senario for Kim is over... Shaughnessey is out to Granville, so Kim won't get those quality points.

Now Wimbledon has a formula for the seedings for the men. They didn't have that formula when they made the seeding changes on the women's side. I assume if they want to make changes in the women's side they would apply the same formula.

Infiniti2001
May 12th, 2003, 02:11 PM
Shaughnessey is out to Granville
.

This is not topic related , but I must say it :p It seems that everytime Meghan beats my Vee she goes on a downward spiral :eek: I so believe in the Venus Williams curse waaaaaa :p

Diya
May 12th, 2003, 02:16 PM
On the contrary i think that, Meghan losing to such players ONLY makes Vee's straight set loss to her look even worse

Infiniti2001
May 12th, 2003, 02:24 PM
I beg to differ... Meghan is a good player.. She has her moments of brillance and then she fades right after defeating a top seed which just happens to be Venus. Please check her 2001 record :p

sartrista7
May 12th, 2003, 02:31 PM
Meghann's current 'bad form' isn't really bad form - she's just not that good on clay and never has been. I'm still shocked she lost to Granville though, who if anything hates the dirt even more.

I forgot about the Pierce/Tauziat thing... possibly because I didn't care about either of them at the time.

So I take it Kim now has to reach the final to get the no 2 seed? Ooh, another factor... she got to both the singles and doubles final last week, and both were marathon three setters. She has to be tired.

Infiniti2001
May 12th, 2003, 02:37 PM
Meghann's current 'bad form' isn't really bad form - she's just not that good on clay and never has been. I'm still shocked she lost to Granville though, who if anything hates the dirt even more.

.

Oh stop it :p How dare you rain on my parade?? :sad: <evil grin> :

sartrista7
May 12th, 2003, 02:40 PM
Oh stop it :p How dare you rain on my parade?? :sad: <evil grin> :

:p I dare say you'll be right at some point this year still, Meghann is one of those players who are HOT for a few months then COLD for a few months. But clay proves nothing for her.

Still, Granville :eek: I thought she'd win this.

sartrista7
May 12th, 2003, 02:52 PM
Kim is the New Serena- have you seen that draw of hers?? She is making the final..i'm resigned to Vee being #3 at RG...i don't know what smilie to use :D

Kim's draw = biggest cakewalk in the history of tennis. The only two players who can beat her are Nastya and Patty, both of whom are in horrible form and probably won't even get to her.

Ha, Kim may get the No 2 seed, but it's not as if she's going to win RG. No 2 or No 3, Venus has more chance... and Justine at No 4 will have an even better chance.

JPV
May 12th, 2003, 03:50 PM
considering that they are not too many high ranked players in her half of the draw and she gets bye in the first round, it's probably true.

but it is still possible:

for getting to the semis 135 points
if she defeats Ruano Pascual in the second round 10 points
if she defeats Shaughnessy in the third round 23 points
if she defeats Myskina in the QF round 35 points

Total 203 points

But I'm looking at the best case scenario: no upsets in her part of the draw and she wins all the matches.

Major updated needed, check this:

http://www.wtatour.com/assets/story_pdf/Rome_03.pdf

Semi-final points: 124

They've changed the tournament status from a 300-points tournament to a 275-points tournament...

So she MAX. gets 192 points... SF wil be hard...

tenn_ace
May 12th, 2003, 03:55 PM
Major updated needed, check this:

http://www.wtatour.com/assets/story_pdf/Rome_03.pdf

Semi-final points: 124

They've changed the tournament status from a 300-points tournament to a 275-points tournament...

So she MAX. gets 192 points... SF wil be hard...


thanks for correction!

max won't work anymore anyway since Meghann is out. it's another 8 points decrease

so current max is 184

CanadianBoy21
May 12th, 2003, 04:17 PM
shaughnessy is out, so she cannot get any points from her
what if she plays all the players ranked as low as they can get and gets to finals, is she still #2 or will she have to beat Serena Williams?
I think she will be #2, but I hope she won't, i don't want to see Venus against Serena so early in the slam, the semis ;)
Go Kim, lose ;)

CanadianBoy21
May 12th, 2003, 04:19 PM
so Kim needs to make the finals to get to #2?
i'm confused, not good at math

DA FOREHAND
May 12th, 2003, 04:23 PM
It doesn't matter , Dawn.. They do not usually adjust women due to different reason. Unlike men, there are much less surface specialists in women's tennis. There are no players, who are, say, great on grass and crap on other surfaces. Therefore , no real need to adjust..


Not true Steffi was ranked much lower than her number two seeding in 99. Had they gone with the rankings Steffi might not have met LD in the final.

tenn_ace
May 12th, 2003, 04:28 PM
According to Tennis corner websitehttp://www.tenniscorner.net/ rankings/projected ranking
Kim only needs 102 points to stay the # 2 spot. (Venus 4508 , Kim 4407 ) :)


her 17th tournament is 88 points (Roland Garros), so she needs these 88 points plus the difference between her and Venus.

what she needs is 102+88=190

sbmh
May 12th, 2003, 04:43 PM
her 17th tournament is 88 points (Roland Garros), so she needs these 88 points plus the difference between her and Venus.

what she needs is 102+88=190

Thanks !
Sorry , I made a mistake of it !
:p

TheBoiledEgg
May 12th, 2003, 04:51 PM
Shaughnessy being out makes it a cakewalk for Kim at least until Semis even then it looks pretty easy.

Sofiane
May 12th, 2003, 05:03 PM
Not true Steffi was ranked much lower than her number two seeding in 99. Had they gone with the rankings Steffi might not have met LD in the final.
Steffi was ranked #3 in the world. I don't call that much lower.
A spot lower is more appropriate. :)

ys
May 12th, 2003, 05:12 PM
Note that things got even more complicated now..

WTA made a correction and it is now Tier IC event, not Tier IB event as it was originally advertised. Meaning, the semifinal is 124 points worth. Not 135 points. Meaning that now Kim has to beat Shaugnessy AND Myskina or Danilidou to barely ( by three points ) get past Venus after semis. Meaning, that if, say, Shaugnessy doesn't make it past first two rounds, Kim would need to reach finals to pass Venus, no matter what..

Reading now that Meghann has already lost, it is now official. Kim needs to reach finals, not semis to be seeded #2 at RG..

persond
May 12th, 2003, 05:32 PM
:cool: What I can't understand, is why Venus' rank is concerning so many people...??? It really doesn't matter...Venus can win the whole damn thing even if she's "ranked no.10....!!!!

You folks are so "upset" over the Williamses domination, that you can't even see your own hands before your faces...!!! The Williamses will prevail, no matter what "shit" you people "stir up"...!!!

"Try as you may, the Williamses "destiny" has been "cast", and their "history" all ready written."

jenglisbe
May 12th, 2003, 05:33 PM
About seedings...
At French - Kim would be a deserving #2 seed if she is ranked #2. Like Venus, Kim has made the finals at the French Open. Kim also has beaten Venus on clay, and neither has won a Tier 1 title on clay (Kim has made a final, though). On clay, the two have the same credentials, really.

For Wimbledon - Venus will get the #2 seed regardless of her ranking unless Kim wins the French Open. If Kim wins the French, I don't see Wimbledon turning around knocking her down a seed (especially when Kim has a decent - though not stellar - record at Wimbledon).

CanIGetAWhat
May 12th, 2003, 06:03 PM
About seedings...
At French - Kim would be a deserving #2 seed if she is ranked #2. Like Venus, Kim has made the finals at the French Open. Kim also has beaten Venus on clay, and neither has won a Tier 1 title on clay (Kim has made a final, though). On clay, the two have the same credentials, really.

For Wimbledon - Venus will get the #2 seed regardless of her ranking unless Kim wins the French Open. If Kim wins the French, I don't see Wimbledon turning around knocking her down a seed (especially when Kim has a decent - though not stellar - record at Wimbledon).

Venus has won a Tier I on clay, the 1999 Italian Open (def. Martina in the semi and Mary in the final). ;)

It doesn't matter where Venus stands on the ranking list, she's never cared about the rankings anyway. It's the slams that count. If Kim is the No. 2 seed for Roland Garros, she deserves it because imho she has played better than Venus in the last 52 weeks.

SerenaSlam
May 12th, 2003, 06:10 PM
About seedings...
At French - Kim would be a deserving #2 seed if she is ranked #2. Like Venus, Kim has made the finals at the French Open. Kim also has beaten Venus on clay, and neither has won a Tier 1 title on clay (Kim has made a final, though). On clay, the two have the same credentials, really.

For Wimbledon - Venus will get the #2 seed regardless of her ranking unless Kim wins the French Open. If Kim wins the French, I don't see Wimbledon turning around knocking her down a seed (especially when Kim has a decent - though not stellar - record at Wimbledon).
sounds more ignorant to me, seeing French is on Clay and wimbledon is on grass, if kim were to win the french how can you say kim is better than venus on grass and should be ranked ahead of her b/c she won the French (on clay) and Venus been to the wimbledon finals 3 straight years, winning 2 times? please tell me for I don't understand how you can come up with something like that :rolleyes:

And seeing Kim has never gotten past the 3rd round of Wimledone I believe. Id say her and Tamarine Tansrugarn are in the same wimbeldon boat right now, and therefore you could say that, if Tamarine won the French, she should be seeded ahead of kim and venus...... :rolleyes:

jenglisbe
May 12th, 2003, 06:20 PM
Serena Slam - A couple things:
1. Kim was a quarterfinalist at Wimbledon in 2001 and made the round of 16 in 1999
2. I wasn't say Kim would deserve a #2 seed at Wimbledon if she wins the French Open; I was saying that if Kim were to win Roland Garros, I don't think the Wimbledon committee wouldn't lower the #2 ranked women's player and most recent major champion to a #3 seed.

Sofiane
May 12th, 2003, 08:28 PM
and who cares? not even Kim nor Venus care about their ranking.

ys
May 12th, 2003, 08:30 PM
and who cares? not even Kim nor Venus care about their ranking.

Says who? Every player cares about their rankings.

SerenaSlam
May 12th, 2003, 08:39 PM
Says who? Every player cares about their rankings.
sorry to tell you this, but says venus and kim, they haven't really given any justice to "oh where am i ranked" they are more so answering questions such as, did you know your number 2 now? and their answers be, no i didn't when did i become number 2. these answer although they are not the direct quote "i don't care about the rankings" suggests more so they don't care, than they do care about the rankings.

and also, i was stating that it would still be ignorant in my opinion for Wimbledon (regardless if Kim were to win the French, get to the finals, or the semis or whateva) to not Seed venus either 1 or 2 seed. That is an entire different event, and entire different surface, and personally Kim has nothing on Venus or Serena at the moment (praying for a Kim vs Serena Final in Rome) and isn't deserving of a seeding higher than number 3 (yes even if she wins the French :))

mboyle
May 12th, 2003, 08:52 PM
RG goes prety much by seedings but Wimbeldon does whatever they feel like. LOL

They usually go by past wins on the famous grass courts. I just can't see them seeding Kim over Venus on grass. Imho if Venus is ranked #3 she will still be seeded #2 at Wimbeldon.

WRONG. Wimbledon doesn't do that anymore. Too many players complained. But I like your wishful thinking.

ys
May 12th, 2003, 08:57 PM
sorry to tell you this, but says venus and kim, they haven't really given any justice to "oh where am i ranked" they are more so answering questions such as, did you know your number 2 now? and their answers be, no i didn't when did i become number 2. these answer although they are not the direct quote "i don't care about the rankings" suggests more so they don't care, than they do care about the rankings.

So you are saying, whether Kim or Venus are ranked #1 or #12 is absolutely unimportant to them - i.e. they don't care?

CJ07
May 12th, 2003, 09:05 PM
Venus' rank doesnt matter

some people would just like to see an all-williams final

actually id rather have V be #3 but still be opposite rena, more bonus points

either way shes getting to the final

CanadianBoy21
May 12th, 2003, 11:11 PM
no, Venus does not care if she is 3rd or 30th, I remember her saying that she tries to do her best at every slam, and that rankings will come about because of it. so rankings basically don't bring her the money or happiness she needs, it's wining and getting paid. venus representing ;)
I hope Kim loses first round ;).
kim fans should also hope for this, she would be rested ;)

Jericho
May 12th, 2003, 11:56 PM
WRONG. Wimbledon doesn't do that anymore. Too many players complained. But I like your wishful thinking.

WRONG! Wimbledon and the 3 other grand slams can seed as they wish ;)

Dawn Marie
May 13th, 2003, 09:02 AM
HA HA !! lmao! @ myboyle what a dumbfuck!:kiss:


and you just be careful what YOU WISH for.. lmao .. HA HA !!

Flatstat
May 13th, 2003, 09:23 AM
Some people are doing a lot of sweating over nothing, Justine is going to win the French anyway :p :p

rikvanlooy
May 13th, 2003, 09:35 AM
I just hope Kims injury doesn't get worse.

It's still possible Venus and Kim don't compete at RG.

maccardel
May 13th, 2003, 11:59 AM
That's not true.

Dawn, better prepare yourself for the reality that Venus will be ranked #4 by the time wimbledon rolls around. ;) :D

Well to make the case for venus. She has been a finalist the last three years and winning two out of those three. Seeding her one and two probably won't make a difference but number three, I don't think wimbledon would do that.