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View Full Version : Giving Praise...why?


SerenaSlam
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:45 PM
to your opponent, again I think everyone is brough up differently and have their own opinions on this but I've got questions. Personally I see know reason to give your opponents props/praise no matter what, again this is my personal opinion. Why do I feel this way? Well b/c when Im out on the court, its all about me, not my opponent, even when im not on a tennis court or im playing a video/or board game, its all about me, and the only time the opponent is really in the matter is the fact that they are in my way of me accomplishing something. So for tennis, the opponent to me, more so is not just a player on the other side of the net, they are like an infection, a henderince in my side, a headache im trying to get rid of, so I personally don't feel like i need to give the any respect or praise, for im trying to get them out of my way, so i can go for my gaol or win the match :)

Question time...

Why even bother complimenting an opponent when you win or loose against them?

Why raise a racquet when your ball hits the net and barely bounces over for the winner?

Why apologize for tossin the ball wrong and having to retoss it, (if anything you shouldn't be saying sorry, but should be telling yourself to get it together/right)

Why aplogize for hitting your opponent (personally if they got hit, they were wanting to be hit, i don't care how close we were to the net and the ball, you could've moved, and if you guess the wrong way? guess their just shit out of luck, and "better luck nextime")

All these, I think are just "Traditions" from tennis that have just been kept up. I Personally do no aplogizing on the tennis court, or when im playing a game. Maybe b/c i know im good, and the fact that im very competitive has much to do with it along with the fact that I was brought up to not be a pussy, and I am the best, i am the 1 that matters.

joegerardi
Apr 22nd, 2003, 10:04 PM
to your opponent, again I think everyone is brough up differently and have their own opinions on this but I've got questions. Personally I see know reason to give your opponents props/praise no matter what, again this is my personal opinion. Why do I feel this way? Well b/c when Im out on the court, its all about me, not my opponent, even when im not on a tennis court or im playing a video/or board game, its all about me, and the only time the opponent is really in the matter is the fact that they are in my way of me accomplishing something. So for tennis, the opponent to me, more so is not just a player on the other side of the net, they are like an infection, a henderince in my side, a headache im trying to get rid of, so I personally don't feel like i need to give the any respect or praise, for im trying to get them out of my way, so i can go for my gaol or win the match :)

Question time...

Why even bother complimenting an opponent when you win or loose against them?

Why raise a racquet when your ball hits the net and barely bounces over for the winner?

Why apologize for tossin the ball wrong and having to retoss it, (if anything you shouldn't be saying sorry, but should be telling yourself to get it together/right)

Why aplogize for hitting your opponent (personally if they got hit, they were wanting to be hit, i don't care how close we were to the net and the ball, you could've moved, and if you guess the wrong way? guess their just shit out of luck, and "better luck nextime")

All these, I think are just "Traditions" from tennis that have just been kept up. I Personally do no aplogizing on the tennis court, or when im playing a game. Maybe b/c i know im good, and the fact that im very competitive has much to do with it along with the fact that I was brought up to not be a pussy, and I am the best, i am the 1 that matters.

Well, the reason is... let's see: What's the word I'm looking for? Oh, yeah: SPORTSMANSHIP!

You apologize for tossing the ball wrong because your opponent is all set up to return it, and because of your lack of ability, you make them expend energy uselessly

You apologize for hittiing your opponent because if you don't then sometime when you hit a pussy volley to them they slam it down your throat because they think you're intentionally TRYING to hit them. When I come to the net I know it's open season on me. If I think you're intentionally trying, I consider open season on you.

You raise your racquet in apology when you hit a net winner because you didn't win the point. Your punk-ass shot barely made it over and you apologize for not winning the point cleanly, but hitting a pussy shot.

You compliment your opponent because if they beat you, and you go out with the intention of beating them, then they are better than you and you acknowledge the fact that you were taken by somebody better or luckier that day.

You do all this because tennis is a game of honor and sportsmanship. If you don't, then eventually you find yourself hitting against the wall because no one can be bothered to play with an ill-mannered self-centered idiot. You may be good, but the first time you're beaten, you find out that you're NOT "the best," and on that day you don't matter at all, except as a loser to your opponent.

..Joe

Havok
Apr 22nd, 2003, 10:07 PM
:worship: Joe :worship:
right on dude:bounce:

CapFan#1
Apr 22nd, 2003, 10:44 PM
WELL SAID JOE!!!! This is why Serena comes under fire so often. She has no sportswomanship.

jenny161185
Apr 22nd, 2003, 11:35 PM
MANNERS :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes
I agree maybe you should be concentrating on your own game but for things like when you win the point because of a et you should always apologise your getting a free point.

kell
Apr 23rd, 2003, 01:09 AM
Dead right, Joe.

Serena Slam, you don't need to be a pussy to have manners. In fact, you can look at it as a strategic move (if you are so dead set against being polite). Think about it this way; a rude player sets her opponent against them. This gives the opponent one more reason to want to beat them. At least give the impression of being gracious and you'll earn a lot more respect

You seem very sure of your own talents. But no one is infallible. Just look at Serena. Brilliant player. Occasionally looses.

"Question Time"

Are you telling me you've never lost a match?

If you have, what do you blame it on? :rolleyes:

switz
Apr 23rd, 2003, 01:18 AM
what is point of trying to explain anything to you? you live your life by the principle that it is "all about me" (i can see from your attitude that this principle extends far beyond tennis for you), and thus you don't take into account these insignificant aspects of life like caring about other people feelings (even if you are in competition with them), and basic humility. what i don't think you understand that is that your actions when in competition aren't taking place in a vacuum, and people are going to remember how you behaved long after the match is over.

it is just so sad how you start these threads so that arguments can begin. really don't you have something more productive to do with your life??? it just isn't worth it. i am not even going to keep writing my reply because you're just not worth it.

Leena
Apr 23rd, 2003, 01:28 AM
You do all this because tennis is a game of honor and sportsmanship. If you don't, then eventually you find yourself hitting against the wall because no one can be bothered to play with an ill-mannered self-centered idiot.

People play with me all the time. :)

I completely disagree with this "sportsmanship" sentiment.

When I'm playing... my mind is 100% on winning. I don't give a damn about my opponents' feelings, or if I should raise my racket in apology. If I have a chance of drilling my opponent with a ball... I sure will... just like I expect my opponent to do the same.

I only compliment my opponent if I can tell that they played very well, or improved someway, in my eyes. That's if I win, or lose.

switz
Apr 23rd, 2003, 01:34 AM
so you are saying that if you hit your opponent with a ball you would not apologise? nobody said you can't go for the body, but there is a big distinction between hitting at the body and hitting at somebody and not being concerned whether you hurt the person after the point is over. if can't see that then there is no way of putting it except to say that you are shit of a human being!!!

Leena
Apr 23rd, 2003, 01:38 AM
so you are saying that if you hit your opponent with a ball you would not apologise? nobody said you can't go for the body, but there is a big distinction between hitting at the body and hitting at somebody and not being concerned whether you hurt the person after the point is over. if can't see that then there is no way of putting it except to say that you are shit of a human being!!!
You're not going to hurt someone hitting a tennis ball at them... I didn't say I was aiming at their head or anything.

Berlin_Calling
Apr 23rd, 2003, 01:43 AM
Well said Joe ;)

And Leena, u actually can hurt someone with a tennis ball. I actually meant my apology when I hit my tennis coach (male) in the groin :o

kiwifan
Apr 23rd, 2003, 01:46 AM
Once again (different thread) I agree with Leena.

False compliments are just that.

I say "nice shot" if my opponent makes a GREAT SHOT and I say "right idea" if my opponent does something smart on the court but loses the point.

Beyond that, its ass kicking time.

When the match is over, then we can have a beer and laugh about it all.

"Its the rugby way."

Crazy Canuck
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:37 AM
I find let cord apologies lame and pretentious, so I could care less if a player does that. It's nice if they compliment another player after the match, but that's another thing that I dont' *really* care about. It actually looks better after a loss than it does after a win. If somebody just won and wants to go on about themselves, they have earned it. But imo it looks bad when somebody loses and still takes the "it's all about me" attitude.

switz
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:45 AM
i can't stand this anymore. so many of YOU are pretentious shits. yes lets all be like serena and pump our fists when we get a let court, that's not lame. well if having good manner is lame i guess i'm just a big lame. i know one things for sure, i would rather be a lame than an arrogant, self-obsessed arsehole!

switz
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:50 AM
"Its the rugby way."

please don't compare tennis and rugby. i have played both my whole life and if i took the aggression onto the tennis court that i do onto the rugby field then i would have been defaulted from every match i have ever played.

Leena
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:53 AM
Well said Joe ;)

And Leena, u actually can hurt someone with a tennis ball. I actually meant my apology when I hit my tennis coach (male) in the groin :o
Well... I rarely play guys competitively... so that's not a problem. :p

Philbo
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:08 AM
Dont worry swift I agree with you "so many of YOU are pretentious shits. yes lets all be like serena and pump our fists when we get a let court, that's not lame. well if having good manner is lame i guess i'm just a big lame. i know one things for sure, i would rather be a lame than an arrogant, self-obsessed arsehole" - great call...

Serenaslam - how old are you?? 15, 16??

MarcusRock
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:12 AM
i can't stand this anymore. so many of YOU are pretentious shits. yes lets all be like serena and pump our fists when we get a let court, that's not lame. well if having good manner is lame i guess i'm just a big lame. i know one things for sure, i would rather be a lame than an arrogant, self-obsessed arsehole!Dude, calm down. That vein in your foreheand is getting a massive workout. Remember, it's just a message board. Serenity now! Serenity now!

~ The Leopard ~
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:15 AM
Some people just have no manners. Courtesy and good manners are what make life in our civilization tolerable. If everyone had SerenaSlam's attitude imagine what a mess our whole society would be. :rolleyes:

Actually, a lot of people do seem to have that attitude, but it's hardly a tendency to be encouraged.

Crazy Canuck
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:22 AM
Ho hum.

Let cord apologies ARE pretentious, more often then not. I'm supposed to believe that a pro tennis player is actually sorry that the point went their way? lol...

Are you sure that it's not YOU (what's with the caps?) who is pretending here? ;)


i can't stand this anymore. so many of YOU are pretentious shits. yes lets all be like serena and pump our fists when we get a let court, that's not lame. well if having good manner is lame i guess i'm just a big lame. i know one things for sure, i would rather be a lame than an arrogant, self-obsessed arsehole!

Crazy Canuck
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:24 AM
Dont worry swift I agree with you "so many of YOU are pretentious shits. yes lets all be like serena and pump our fists when we get a let court, that's not lame. well if having good manner is lame i guess i'm just a big lame. i know one things for sure, i would rather be a lame than an arrogant, self-obsessed arsehole" - great call...

Serenaslam - how old are you?? 15, 16??
I see that I struck a chord with my "lame and pretentious" comment.

Truth hurts ;)

Leena
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:24 AM
I do pump my first when I get a let cord too... Elena Bovina does it, too... so it's fine. :)

TennisHack
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:25 AM
Are you sure that it's not YOU (what's with the caps?) who is pretending here? ;)

Well, considering this thread followed the one where Serena was being bashed, I quite think switz's observation is spot-on. So many people here are pretentious and full of shit, and wholly unaware of it.

Crazy Canuck
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:26 AM
As far as I'm concerned, if you get a lucky let cord, you should be happy about it. I'm sure that I would pump my fist too, if I did more than just hit the ball around :D I fail to see how this is lacking courtesy. Nobody is sorry to have won the point, and to pretend other wise is - lets say it together switz and czechfan - LAME and PRETENTIOUS :)

Crazy Canuck
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:27 AM
Well, considering this thread followed the one where Serena was being bashed, I quite think switz's observation is spot-on. So many people here are pretentious and full of shit, and wholly unaware of it.
Her comment appeared to be aimed at me, and I don't believe that I bashed Serena. In which case I'm rightfully ragging on Switz :)

Leena
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:28 AM
Becca... I prefer calling us types "pompous" or "ostentatious". :)

Crazy Canuck
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:30 AM
I'll remember that... Leena=pompous.. gotcha!

TennisHack
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:31 AM
Her comment appeared to be aimed at me, and I don't believe that I bashed Serena. In which case I'm rightfully ragging on Switz :)

No, I don't think it was aimed at you. Read her previous comments and find the connection ;) Plus I believe she also participated in the other thread.

Leena
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:31 AM
I'm called pompous all the time in real life... and arrogant... snob... bitch. :p

Crazy Canuck
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:35 AM
No, I don't think it was aimed at you. Read her previous comments and find the connection ;) Plus I believe she also participated in the other thread.
Well I was the one who stressed "lame" and "pretentious", was I not? In which case it was perfectly logical for me to assume that she was somehow ragging on me.. even if it didnt' make a whole lot of sense. And I can't be bothered to read the other thread, but thanks for pointing it out. God bless multithread arguements that I have no interest in knowing about ;)

england_rules
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:47 AM
Well I personally think that all players deserve respect!
Whenever I get a lucky net cord, I smile and say sorry, whenever I lose, even if I played bad, I always say good game to them and I don't say it obnoxiously. The only time I don't say sorry is when I have a bad toss because it's really affecting me not them! I HATE to say good game when I feel like they cheated, but I still say it. I wait till I'm on my way home then I'll tell my parents what "cheating bastards" they were! :o

joegerardi
Apr 23rd, 2003, 04:21 AM
You're not going to hurt someone hitting a tennis ball at them... I didn't say I was aiming at their head or anything.

No one is good enough to control a serve and have it bend around someone if they try to duck and it hits them. I seriously doubt that you would be able to continue in a match with me if one of my serves (I can easily hit a serve at around 105 miles per hour) hit you in the mouth, or worse, the nose. Your nose would be broken. Likewise, a 75 mph groundie, which is not uncommon, could easily break off a tooth.

Several years ago, a young man was killed instantly when a tennis ball he was trying to duck hit him in the side of the neak and broke his spine. I'm sure the person wasn't intentionally trying to hit him, and it was ruled an accident, but that player has to live with that for the rest of his life.

When I play, I play to win. I want to beat my opponent. That is my total focus. However, I want to do it with skill, not some net winner. There's a difference between pure luck, and playing with grace, class, and style. For example: In the 2002 US Open final, when Pete Sampras got a net winner, he raised his hand in apology to Andre Agassi. If one of the all-time best - if not THE best - can do it, (and he certainly doesn't have to) then whomever cannot is simply ignorant.

..Joe

Philbo
Apr 23rd, 2003, 04:39 AM
Rebecca - Noone is 'sorry' to have won the point when they get a let cord and to claim otherwise is stupid, thats correct..

But if you pump your fist you look like an A Class PRETENTIOUS ASSHOLE - apologising is more of a way of saying "that one was luck" than "sorry for winning the point"...

And Serena looks like a fool when she gets a let cord then bends over pumsp her fist and says "yes" as if she has hit an amazing winner.

I mean all the person 'should' really do is put a hand up and ACKNOWLEDGE that the reason they won the point was a fluke, not amazing play...No need to give a hearfelt apology for winning the point, just acknowledge it was luck....

GBFH
Apr 23rd, 2003, 04:53 AM
You shouldn't praise your opponent if he/she plays like crap. More like you should thank them for making your day so easy.

Philbo
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:01 AM
I mean so many people - Alex Corretja included bitch about the fact that Hewitt pumps his fist when wins a game and its 1-1, that this is not an 'appropriate' screline to pump your fist etc...

But at least hewitt has won the game on his own, without a lucky net cord - If you've ever played COMPETITIVE tennis, and its a tight match, good rally going on and suddenly the ball hits the tape, bounces up and bounces back over your side of the net (when it could so easily have gone over), its just tacky and classless to let out a big "cmon" and pump the fist... you just look like a wanker imo....

tennisvideos
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:16 AM
Have to agree Czechfan. If I was playing someone like leena or serenafan I would be tempted to punch their lights out! LOL. But that would be dropping to their levels. Personally, I prefer people take the high road eg. Pat Rafter... He was a legend for his sportsmanship. Thank the lord there are decent and sensible people who make up for all the meatheads running around this planet.

And for the ignorant - yes, you can get hurt by a tennis ball. Think about it. Sheesh.

Crazy Canuck
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:20 AM
Rebecca - Noone is 'sorry' to have won the point when they get a let cord and to claim otherwise is stupid, thats correct..

But if you pump your fist you look like an A Class PRETENTIOUS ASSHOLE - apologising is more of a way of saying "that one was luck" than "sorry for winning the point"...

And Serena looks like a fool when she gets a let cord then bends over pumsp her fist and says "yes" as if she has hit an amazing winner.

I mean all the person 'should' really do is put a hand up and ACKNOWLEDGE that the reason they won the point was a fluke, not amazing play...No need to give a hearfelt apology for winning the point, just acknowledge it was luck....
Right, I understand what you are saying. I just don't interpret it the same way. I also hadnt' realised that some of the heat in here related to another thread until TennisHack pointed that out. My bad ;)

Crazy Canuck
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:21 AM
Have to agree Czechfan. If I was playing someone like leena or serenafan I would be tempted to punch their lights out! LOL. But that would be dropping to their levels. Personally, I prefer people take the high road eg. Pat Rafter... He was a legend for his sportsmanship. Thank the lord there are decent and sensible people who make up for all the meatheads running around this planet.

And for the ignorant - yes, you can get hurt by a tennis ball. Think about it. Sheesh.
Well... if I was playing them it might irritate me as well ;) But it's well within their rights to do it, and when all was said and done I wouldn't think less of them for it.

That's the view from here! :D

kiwifan
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:21 AM
Becca... I prefer calling us types "pompous" or "ostentatious". :)
:worship: :wavey: :worship:

Switz, do you find it the least bit ironic or perhaps hypocritical that the one who is calling for traditional manners on court is exhibiting the worst manners in the thread? :p :p :p

I cite the "rugby way" because its the way all sports should be Bloody competition followed by real comraderie (sp). Instead tennis is populated by PHONIES. A lot of you dopes think these chicks are all little fairy princesses. Reality is most of these chicks are just the top of the heap of a desperate sub class most people think is restricted to the inner city; talented, undereducated youth thrusted into the role of family meal ticket whether they like it or not. Yes you have 100 russians rising up the rankings but its so they can get the hell out of Russia (duh) and have a nice house in Florida like Anna K. They aren't going to dominate the top 10, ever. At least none of them that are currently playing. There won't be a Russian Slam winner or #1 player (well maybe a fluke French could happen) in the next 3 years, they just aren't that good.

The truth is J Cap isn't very bright (it was cute when she was talking about "short dead dudes" but she ain't 12 anymore) there's nothing wrong with being a dumb jock (8 of my best mates every weekend are forwards). Lindsay isn't very popular because she isn't very attractive and has a crap attitude on the court and a Vanilla Wafer life off the court (nothing wrong with that but it isn't a crime for the crowd/media to "ignore the bore"). Chucky is a funny nickname (and she is a quitter which is a shame because I liked her)!!! The majority of the players on the tour are dull (and when they have something "interesting" going on like Dokic, Patty S. or Mary P. boy does it get whitewashed, rationalized and suppressed).

Venus and Serena are popular with the "non-tennis crowd" because they have charisma and a back story "straight out of Compton." Even a wacky/funny tennis dad who rubs the tennis crowd the wrong way like Rodney Dangerfield did in Caddyshack. Of course you haters don't like him, you ARE the tennis crowd, and everyone laughs at your "wannabe blue blood" whining.

If I'm in a rally and score the point on a let cord, I might pump my fist because I'm happy that the damn ball went over the net instead of plopping back down on my side. ITS HONEST.

Also because the Serena issue seems to be all over the boards these days and I usually don't participate because I think everyone has made up their minds about the Williams Sisters (years ago) and just look for new bullshit when the old bullshit gets stale...

...Serena complains about her game when she wins. Serena complains about her game when she loses. Serena played like shit against Henin and only the biggest dumbasses on the board can deny that. I've got nothing against Henin (other than wanting her to lose if she's become the new "Williams Stopper" on the WTAworld boards).

Serena was just telling the truth about the match.

False humility is fine for some players; the dishonest ones.

Wrapping your statements in little white lies doesn't make you a better person; laden with social graces, it makes you a liar.

Once upon a time the Williams sisters were the only ones saying that the game is in their hands no matter who they play. When they said that they were BEING HONEST and giving their HONEST OPINION.

:devil: Seems like they are backing that up these days. :devil:

That was a fun rant.

"Big Shot" - Billy Joel

Leena
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:36 AM
No one is good enough to control a serve and have it bend around someone if they try to duck and it hits them. I seriously doubt that you would be able to continue in a match with me if one of my serves (I can easily hit a serve at around 105 miles per hour) hit you in the mouth, or worse, the nose. Your nose would be broken. Likewise, a 75 mph groundie, which is not uncommon, could easily break off a tooth.

Several years ago, a young man was killed instantly when a tennis ball he was trying to duck hit him in the side of the neak and broke his spine. I'm sure the person wasn't intentionally trying to hit him, and it was ruled an accident, but that player has to live with that for the rest of his life.

When I play, I play to win. I want to beat my opponent. That is my total focus. However, I want to do it with skill, not some net winner. There's a difference between pure luck, and playing with grace, class, and style. For example: In the 2002 US Open final, when Pete Sampras got a net winner, he raised his hand in apology to Andre Agassi. If one of the all-time best - if not THE best - can do it, (and he certainly doesn't have to) then whomever cannot is simply ignorant.

..Joe
I'm talking about in a match... you're not going to serve into someone's face...

Whenever I have the chance to hit someone... it's a high ball that I'm aiming at their lower body. I'm not gonna whale at their head or upper body... first, because I'm not completely callous and uncaring... and the player could have quick enough reflexes to punch it back and if I'd miss the player, it would go way long.

And for the ignorant - yes, you can get hurt by a tennis ball. Think about it. Sheesh.


And for the ignorant who don't play tennis competitively, or read posts fully... I said I don't aim at people upper bodies'... and I don't care if a ball is coming 100 MPH, if it hits your legs, waist... the worst it will do is a bruise...

I serve & volley 100% of the time... and I've been hit many times at net... stop overexaggerating...

WtaTour4Ever
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:42 AM
What I find interesting is that ...when you are a fan of someone I think you judge or view their behavior on a diff light. Prime example, it doesn't bother me that Serena pumps her fists and yells come'on , however I don't like Hewitt and when he does it irritates the shit out of me........interesting isn't it :-)

Basically my point is just that if you don't like someone rather it be Hingis,Serena,Jen.C. I think its easy for their actions to bother you when in reality if your fav was doing it, you most likely wouldn't complain.

SM
Apr 23rd, 2003, 06:16 AM
players who play professional have much more at stake and its justitified to a degree....but when i used to play comps and all thats at stake is ur pride there is no justification

Crazy Canuck
Apr 23rd, 2003, 06:26 AM
What I find interesting is that ...when you are a fan of someone I think you judge or view their behavior on a diff light. Prime example, it doesn't bother me that Serena pumps her fists and yells come'on , however I don't like Hewitt and when he does it irritates the shit out of me........interesting isn't it :-)

Basically my point is just that if you don't like someone rather it be Hingis,Serena,Jen.C. I think its easy for their actions to bother you when in reality if your fav was doing it, you most likely wouldn't complain.
If you dont like something then you focus on the evidence that emphasizes your reasons for not liking it. Vice versa for things that you like. It's human nature, we all do it ;)

switz
Apr 23rd, 2003, 10:03 AM
:worship: :wavey: :worship:

Switz, do you find it the least bit ironic or perhaps hypocritical that the one who is calling for traditional manners on court is exhibiting the worst manners in the thread? :p :p :p

I cite the "rugby way" because its the way all sports should be Bloody competition followed by real comraderie (sp). Instead tennis is populated by PHONIES. A lot of you dopes think these chicks are all little fairy princesses. Reality is most of these chicks are just the top of the heap of a desperate sub class most people think is restricted to the inner city; talented, undereducated youth thrusted into the role of family meal ticket whether they like it or not. Yes you have 100 russians rising up the rankings but its so they can get the hell out of Russia (duh) and have a nice house in Florida like Anna K. They aren't going to dominate the top 10, ever. At least none of them that are currently playing. There won't be a Russian Slam winner or #1 player (well maybe a fluke French could happen) in the next 3 years, they just aren't that good.

The truth is J Cap isn't very bright (it was cute when she was talking about "short dead dudes" but she ain't 12 anymore) there's nothing wrong with being a dumb jock (8 of my best mates every weekend are forwards). Lindsay isn't very popular because she isn't very attractive and has a crap attitude on the court and a Vanilla Wafer life off the court (nothing wrong with that but it isn't a crime for the crowd/media to "ignore the bore"). Chucky is a funny nickname (and she is a quitter which is a shame because I liked her)!!! The majority of the players on the tour are dull (and when they have something "interesting" going on like Dokic, Patty S. or Mary P. boy does it get whitewashed, rationalized and suppressed).

Venus and Serena are popular with the "non-tennis crowd" because they have charisma and a back story "straight out of Compton." Even a wacky/funny tennis dad who rubs the tennis crowd the wrong way like Rodney Dangerfield did in Caddyshack. Of course you haters don't like him, you ARE the tennis crowd, and everyone laughs at your "wannabe blue blood" whining.

If I'm in a rally and score the point on a let cord, I might pump my fist because I'm happy that the damn ball went over the net instead of plopping back down on my side. ITS HONEST.

Also because the Serena issue seems to be all over the boards these days and I usually don't participate because I think everyone has made up their minds about the Williams Sisters (years ago) and just look for new bullshit when the old bullshit gets stale...

...Serena complains about her game when she wins. Serena complains about her game when she loses. Serena played like shit against Henin and only the biggest dumbasses on the board can deny that. I've got nothing against Henin (other than wanting her to lose if she's become the new "Williams Stopper" on the WTAworld boards).

Serena was just telling the truth about the match.

False humility is fine for some players; the dishonest ones.

Wrapping your statements in little white lies doesn't make you a better person; laden with social graces, it makes you a liar.

Once upon a time the Williams sisters were the only ones saying that the game is in their hands no matter who they play. When they said that they were BEING HONEST and giving their HONEST OPINION.

:devil: Seems like they are backing that up these days. :devil:

That was a fun rant.

"Big Shot" - Billy Joel


how on earth am i meant to respond to that post without printing it off and taking a week to read it? i am not going to waste my uni break replying, so i will just make four comments:

1) yes perhaps i was being bad-mannered, but i just find it a little difficult to remain placid in my response when people are questioning values which i feel are fundamental to being a decent human being.

2) people who say whatever they think, whenever they want always use the excuse that they are being honest. but what you have to realise is that being honest does mean that what a person is doing is right and should not be condoned. i criminal who pleads guilty to a charge is being honest, but does that make it right?

3) rugby forwards are actually a lot smarter than backs. i am front-rower and i got 99.8 in my HSC.

4) i am not a girl. women playing rugby ewwhhh!

kiwifan
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:47 PM
how on earth am i meant to respond to that post without printing it off and taking a week to read it? i am not going to waste my uni break replying, so i will just make four comments:

1) yes perhaps i was being bad-mannered, but i just find it a little difficult to remain placid in my response when people are questioning values which i feel are fundamental to being a decent human being.

2) people who say whatever they think, whenever they want always use the excuse that they are being honest. but what you have to realise is that being honest does mean that what a person is doing is right and should not be condoned. i criminal who pleads guilty to a charge is being honest, but does that make it right?

3) rugby forwards are actually a lot smarter than backs. i am front-rower and i got 99.8 in my HSC.

4) i am not a girl. women playing rugby ewwhhh! :devil: :p :devil:

Its all good, we can agree to disagree about tennis manners. As long as you can recognize the insulting nature of your prior posts, cool, your just being honest :p . I just make a distinction between phony manners and honest compliments. False apologies etc. cheapen the real statements on the court. Sort of like when you play against a dude who always tells you that there are 50 things wrong with him and then he plays awesome tennis. You stop listening to his "problems".

The criminal isn't being punished for being honest, she's being punished for her prior dishonesty (you must focus on the proximate cause not the collateral actions, grasshopper)

You made a comment earlier that screamed out "forward" so I just took a good natured shot at you. I don't think all forwards are dumb just the back row. :p

Finally, I used to coach women's rugby and sure some of them are not aesteticly (sp) easy on the eyes, but they're wonderful chicks and everyone who plays the game deserves respect (even you). :angel: :angel: :angel:

PS. A good looking straight rugby chick is the greatest girlfriend you'll ever find (a rare combination, I know, but they are out there).

"Act Naturally" - Ringo Starr (with the Beatles)

Colin B
Apr 23rd, 2003, 04:00 PM
You have to remember that, whilst the millionairesses are surrounded by an entourage of employees and assorted sycophants, the majority of the women on tour have to live and travel in eachother's company for thirty, forty weeks of the year.

They need to get along with the other pros otherwise they may find themselves leading a very lonely life off court. Being a little gracious in defeat or magnanimous in victory can go a long way the next time you see your opponent in the locker room.

kiwifan
Apr 23rd, 2003, 06:54 PM
Good point Colin B. :)

Rollo
Apr 23rd, 2003, 07:19 PM
LOL@Tennisvideos. Yes-getting hit by a ball CAN hurt, especially if it's in the balls :eek:

SerenaSlam-I'd answer your question with one word: CLASS
we each have "class" in some measure, and it's often hard to define, but people value it as they get more mature.

switz
Apr 24th, 2003, 01:00 AM
[QUOTE='kiwifan'

The criminal isn't being punished for being honest, she's being punished for her prior dishonesty (you must focus on the proximate cause not the collateral actions, grasshopper)

[/QUOTE]

i can agree with everything you said except for the above the statement. firstly i did not say they would be punished for being honest, i said being honest does excuse a person actions. and why is committing a crime dishonest? the person is not being punished for dishonesty, they are being penalised for the actions they have taken which either harm a person/object or violate the laws of a nation. honesty only comes into the equation once you reach the interrogation/judicial stage.
:)

kiwifan
Apr 24th, 2003, 01:14 AM
[QUOTE='kiwifan'

The criminal isn't being punished for being honest, she's being punished for her prior dishonesty (you must focus on the proximate cause not the collateral actions, grasshopper)



i can agree with everything you said except for the above the statement. firstly i did not say they would be punished for being honest, i said being honest does excuse a person actions. and why is committing a crime dishonest? the person is not being punished for dishonesty, they are being penalised for the actions they have taken which either harm a person/object or violate the laws of a nation. honesty only comes into the equation once you reach the interrogation/judicial stage.
:)[/QUOTE]
:cool:

Of course you assume that the crime involved no deception at any stage of its execution. Most white collar crime/fraud/con-artistry is pure dishonesty. The punishment is for the dishonesty.:p Now with violent crimes...

Futhermore, the criminal's honesty may not excuse his prior actions but it does make the process of dealing with his prior actions much more smooth therefor often providing a lighter sentence and thus partial forgiveness for the criminal.

So even under your fact pattern honesty has its merits. :p

Okay, my head is starting to hurt. Back to work...

"Bang on the Drum" - Todd Rungren(sp)

Lisbeth
Apr 24th, 2003, 01:20 AM
I don't agree that it's due to upbringing because Serena's mother always gives the other player their dues.

I think players who are gracious in defeat, nice about other players, and observe the "niceties" like raising a racquet or conceding an obvious point will always be seen as the best sports. However there's no rule that you must do all those things and there's a huge grey area between doing all that and actually being a bad sport. I think Serena is somewhere in the middle. She doesn't so anything wrong exactly, she just doesn't grab every opportunity to do something right. I don't agree she's actually "unsportsmanlike" though, at least not since she stopped blaming every loss on illness or injury.

Midnite Surfer
Apr 24th, 2003, 02:49 AM
WELL SAID JOE!!!! This is why Serena comes under fire so often. She has no sportswomanship.

You really don't know what you're talking about. Serena has excellent sportsmanship. Serena always pats her opponents on the back and says "Great Job". She also says they're great players and she says she never underestimates an opponent. Waht the hell are you talking about. She also raises her racquet when she hits let cords and if she accidentally nails you. Sometimes she does aim at you at the net, but that is a valid play when you wnat to jam the person at the net, and get them off balance. Anyway, Serena is a terrific athlete and a terrific sport. All your accusations are unfounded bullshit.

Serendy Willick
Apr 24th, 2003, 02:54 AM
Midnite, whats the use? These people wont even bother to read Serenas interviews in the full context. Jennifer Capriati fans are the last people who should be complaining about anyones sportsmanship.

SM
Apr 24th, 2003, 03:11 AM
re:hitting people ;)

i had an easy put-away smash at the net, the opponent was at the net too..i SLAMMED that smash and inadvertantly hit the guyon his head ooooops!!!! at such force that when the ball landed it was somewhere on the ourt next to us! he did not look happy!

switz
Apr 24th, 2003, 03:35 AM
i can agree with everything you said except for the above the statement. firstly i did not say they would be punished for being honest, i said being honest does excuse a person actions. and why is committing a crime dishonest? the person is not being punished for dishonesty, they are being penalised for the actions they have taken which either harm a person/object or violate the laws of a nation. honesty only comes into the equation once you reach the interrogation/judicial stage.
:)
:cool:

Of course you assume that the crime involved no deception at any stage of its execution. Most white collar crime/fraud/con-artistry is pure dishonesty. The punishment is for the dishonesty.:p Now with violent crimes...

Futhermore, the criminal's honesty may not excuse his prior actions but it does make the process of dealing with his prior actions much more smooth therefor often providing a lighter sentence and thus partial forgiveness for the criminal.

So even under your fact pattern honesty has its merits. :p

Okay, my head is starting to hurt. Back to work...

"Bang on the Drum" - Todd Rungren(sp)[/QUOTE]


lets just let it go. obviously we can't analayse every single crime and what its legislative purpose is. don't get me wrong, i am not saying honesty is wrong, what kind of idiot would say that. i am saying that a person using honesty as a justification for saying whatever they want is the problem