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View Full Version : Wertheim's Take on Serena's Lack of Praise for Opponents


eshell
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:00 PM
A lot of negative stuff is written about Jennifer Capriati and her manners, etc. (most of which I agree with). However, anyone else think that Serena Williams is the most ungracious loser of the lot? Every time she loses, which admittedly is not often, she always comes up with an excuse rather than praise for her opponent. The latest: "My whole game was like 9,000 notches down." Another time I heard her quoted as saying, "She played some of her best tennis and I played OK." Venus, on the other hand, I find very complimentary about opponents who have beaten her. For me, Venus may not be the better of the tennis sisters at the moment, but she's certainly more graceful and humble and I find that ultimately more admirable.
—Stephen, Munich, Germany

Stephen, you pretty much answered your own question. It's hard to be considered an ungracious loser when you lose so infrequently. But your point is well taken. When your opponent scores one of the biggest wins of her career and beats you in a tight three-setter, it's generally bad form to stress that you stunk worse than a frat-house basement. Serena is also notorious on tour for blaming defeats on assorted injuries and ailments. (Who can forget the infamous "There should be a picture of me [in the dictionary] next to the word hypochondriac" remark at Wimbledon a few years ago?) It's probably unfortunate that we reflexively compare Serena to Venus and vice versa. But for the record, you're right. Venus usually shows a great deal of poise and grace in defeat.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/jon_wertheim/news/2003/04/22/mailbag/

SJW
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:05 PM
pffffffffft this whole thing pisses me off

its like, how can you be expected to speak fluent spanish when you go to 5-6 classes a year??? :confused:;)

eshell
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:08 PM
LOL, SerenaJWilliams...I understand.

But this post should make the Capster's fans feel better. This time, Wertheim didn't demean Capriati. Instead, he suggested an area for Serena to improve.

harloo
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:12 PM
LOL. Serena's game was 7,000 notches down against Henin, but she still lost it. I admire Serena's honesty though of how she feels, but it can come off as ungracious. However, what she doesn't get credit for is giving opponents praise in the past.

I also think it's funny when we don't hear any whining when the other players have their negative stuff to say about Rena. Justine wasn't very classy either after she did defeat Rena.

And Jen shouldn't even be compared to Rena, she is in a whole different class by herself.

Hendouble
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:12 PM
Well, there is a precedent for this sort of thing, with the exception of Davenport and perhaps Clijsters all the top women can be a little ungracious in their press conferences. I was annoyed at Serena not so much for her suggestion that she was ill after the loss to Capriati at Wimby 01, but that she completely misunderstood the word hypochondriac and took it as someone who was always getting ill, rather than someone who mistakenly they were always getting ill. Honestly, if you're going to try and be clever, as Venus was at the same event by mentioning Miller's Death of a Salesman in her interview, at least get your facts straight.

Dawn Marie
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:14 PM
Serena Williams can be a bit cocky, I find her telling it like it really is tone refreshing!:)

Keep on Keepin on Serena! Beat em down beat em down!:) but leave Venus alone..lol

sartrista7
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:16 PM
Well, there is a precedent for this sort of thing, with the exception of Davenport and perhaps Clijsters all the top women can be a little ungracious in their press conferences. I was annoyed at Serena not so much for her suggestion that she was ill after the loss to Capriati at Wimby 01, but that she completely misunderstood the word hypochondriac and took it as someone who was always getting ill, rather than someone who mistakenly they were always getting ill. Honestly, if you're going to try and be clever, as Venus was at the same event by mentioning Miller's Death of a Salesman in her interview, at least get your facts straight.

Yes! And even more annoying... everyone picked up on it as a really smart and witty comment, when all it proved was that Serena is in a league of her own when it comes to malapropisms.

Er, I thought it was a given that Serena's a sore, ungracious loser? And that it isn't that much of a deal? You know... Serena's a bad loser, Jenn's classless... what, you think they're going to change because you want them to?

harloo
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:20 PM
Well, there is a precedent for this sort of thing, with the exception of Davenport and perhaps Clijsters all the top women can be a little ungracious in their press conferences. I was annoyed at Serena not so much for her suggestion that she was ill after the loss to Capriati at Wimby 01, but that she completely misunderstood the word hypochondriac and took it as someone who was always getting ill, rather than someone who mistakenly they were always getting ill. Honestly, if you're going to try and be clever, as Venus was at the same event by mentioning Miller's Death of a Salesman in her interview, at least get your facts straight.

Hendouble, you are right about other players being a little ungracious in their press conferences, but I guess it's SERENA. Others can get away with it, but Serena cannot because of the hate.

I for one do believe that Serena was a hypochondriac. She use to have a fear of losing, and that is what caused her problems with Capriati. When a person gets nervous they can have extreme stomach pain. But I am happy that she has gotten over that and stopped with the excuses.

IMO, Serena has always been in your face. She doesn't attack players, but speaks highly of herself and her abilities. Some people cannot deal with someone with so much confidence, brashness, and she is unapologetic about it. She isn't rude, but it rubs the haters the wrong way which doesn't matter anyways, because they would hate her regardless.

Dawn Marie
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:23 PM
BEAUTIFUL POST HARLOO!

U hit it on the head my friend:)

Hendouble
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:25 PM
Ah yes, "the hate". This is right up there with such tried-and-trusted conspiracy theories as the real story behind the JFK assassination, the fraudulence of NASA's supposed landing on the Moon, etc, and just as believable.

And sorry if I misunderstand you, but you also seem to be saying that hypochondria is a medical condition that actually causes pain, when in fact it's entirely mental. If Serena was actually suffering from stomach cramps then fine, but hypochondria is the wrong phrase to coin.

Dava
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:28 PM
Look I agree Serena is not used to losing but thats no excuse for what she said about Henin. The reason she was 9000 notches below her game was because Henin played in such a way that it made it difficult for Serena to play her game.

And before you brand me a hater, I LIKE Serena.

SJW
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:30 PM
no dava ur a HATER ;):D:p

Jakeev
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:30 PM
Ugh call the paramedics cause I agree with who dawn marie agrees with. I think both Stephen of Germany and the bozo who gets paid to write about a sport he thinks he knows about are both talking out of their arses.

I don't find Serena brash at all in her interviews. And really, what did you want Serena to say about Justine huh?

TennisHack
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:31 PM
Hendouble, you are right about other players being a little ungracious in their press conferences, but I guess it's SERENA. Others can get away with it, but Serena cannot because of the hate.

I for one do believe that Serena was a hypochondriac. She use to have a fear of losing, and that is what caused her problems with Capriati. When a person gets nervous they can have extreme stomach pain. But I am happy that she has gotten over that and stopped with the excuses.

IMO, Serena has always been in your face. She doesn't attack players, but speaks highly of herself and her abilities. Some people cannot deal with someone with so much confidence, brashness, and she is unapologetic about it. She isn't rude, but it rubs the haters the wrong way which doesn't matter anyways, because they would hate her regardless.

Serena is held to a higher standard because she's the #1 player in the world and supposedly an ambassador for tennis. It may be her nature to play herself up or down, but its ungracious and doesn't set a good example to other players or casual fans.

Serena doesn't "attack" other players but she swipes them with backhanded compliments. The comment in the question was about how Serena said the only reason Justine beat her is because she was playing sooooo far below her level. That smacks of sour grapes and immaturity. She didn't outright say, "The only reason Justine beat me was because I played far below my level" but that's the gist of what she said. As if no one had the right to defeat her in the first place.

As for the hypochondriac statement, well, if you don't understand that Serena was insulting herself there, then there's not much I can do for you.

harloo
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:34 PM
Hendouble I know that a hypochondriac is a person who always think they are sick. It is mental, and I do believe that's what Serena was suffering from.

And for the record noone called you a hater. Don't get it twisted, their are haters and it's not a conspiracy theory. If you don't realize that, then you are very naive. :rolleyes:

Kart
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:35 PM
I for one do believe that Serena was a hypochondriac. She use to have a fear of losing, and that is what caused her problems with Capriati. When a person gets nervous they can have extreme stomach pain.

I think you're being a little bit melodramatic. It's not like Serena has a phobia about losing and not like she hadn't lost to Capriati before.

As for the topic of this thread, well Serena may not be the most gracious but she's not going to change. Part of the reasons why she wins everything is her massive self belief even when she's down.

When you think you're the best and you still lose it's hard to admit to yourself, let alone everyone else that you weren't the best on the day.

She'll ease up with time I'm sure - I mean remember what Venus used to be like ? Now she's more gracious than practically anybody else.

eshell
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:41 PM
I find this topic interesting.

Is there a double standard because Serena is a confident, young woman?
Or would this type of speech be characterized as ungracious in all contexts?

Satrista, I'm not sure if I would call Serena the queen of malapropisms. In this case, she simply used the wrong term to describe her 'injuries/illness' during 2001. I haven't read all of her interviews but don't recall any malapropisms. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

harloo
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:43 PM
Serena is held to a higher standard because she's the #1 player in the world and supposedly an ambassador for tennis. It may be her nature to play herself up or down, but its ungracious and doesn't set a good example to other players or casual fans.

Serena doesn't "attack" other players but she swipes them with backhanded compliments. The comment in the question was about how Serena said the only reason Justine beat her is because she was playing sooooo far below her level. That smacks of sour grapes and immaturity. She didn't outright say, "The only reason Justine beat me was because I played far below my level" but that's the gist of what she said. As if no one had the right to defeat her in the first place.

As for the hypochondriac statement, well, if you don't understand that Serena was insulting herself there, then there's not much I can do for you.

TennisHack, what no.1 player have you seen be overly gracious? And what example for other players she must set? Many of them have said nasty things about the Williams and don't care what she says.

In Serena's interviews she is very colorful, and she does not attack other players unlike others in the top 10. Serena is a perfectionist, and she is always critical of her game. She has ALWAYS stated things she loved about herself in interviews, but now since she is #1 she must change? Yes, a perfectionist will COMMENT on her game. She did feel she was 7000 notches down from her level, and she stated so. Never did she say Justine did not deserve the win.

As for the hypochondriac statement, you don't even understand what I'm saying. I do feel that's the reason for some of her close loses, and mental breakdowns. Now if you don't agree with that, then fine. And there is nothing you could do for me anyways. :rolleyes:

TennisHack
Apr 22nd, 2003, 07:53 PM
TennisHack, what no.1 player have you seen be overly gracious? And what example for other players she must set? Many of them have said nasty things about the Williams and don't care what she says.

In Serena's interviews she is very colorful, and she does not attack other players unlike others in the top 10. Serena is a perfectionist, and she is always critical of her game. She has ALWAYS stated things she loved about herself in interviews, but now since she is #1 she must change? Yes, a perfectionist will COMMENT on her game. She did feel she was 7000 notches down from her level, and she stated so. Never did she say Justine did not deserve the win.

As for the hypochondriac statement, you don't even understand what I'm saying. I do feel that's the reason for some of her close loses, and mental breakdowns. Now if you don't agree with that, then fine. And there is nothing you could do for me anyways. :rolleyes:

I never said she had to be overly gracious, but she, like Potatoman (and in the future, Agassi) could learn a bit of humility. They are, like it or not, ambassadors for the sport, and their attitude will reflect on more than just them.

Who in the Top 10 regularly attacks their opponents and other players? Please. I appreciate Serena being aware of her game and being critical of it (instead of being in denial), but when she loses, she always emphasizes its because she played so horribly. As if every match was hers and only hers to win or lose, the opponent was just her puppet to toy with. Sometimes she's just going to lose, flat out, no matter what she does.

As to the last part . . . I don't think you understand what you're saying, but I'm not going to fight with you over the definition of a word.

venusfan
Apr 22nd, 2003, 08:11 PM
Serena Is The Best.. Only Time She Will Lose This Year Is On Clay..

Serendy Willick
Apr 22nd, 2003, 08:25 PM
What do they expect her to do? Lick these players arses? Serena said nothing bad about Henin. Maybe if Worthless and this dumba$$$ would read Serena's interviews they would find out that she has said many complimentary things about many players including Davenport, Capriati, Henin, Hingis and just about everyone on the tour. Whenever other players take backhanded swipes dissing Serena I dont see anyone commenting on those.

WtaTour4Ever
Apr 22nd, 2003, 08:33 PM
I don't think it is a huge deal, but you would have to be blind if you didn't notice that Serena gives nothing to her opponent in a win or a loss. Serena could win 6-1 and 6-2 and talk about how bad she played ...which could be true, but it isn't necessary to say. I myself find it hilarious.

I don't think anyone wants Serena to "kiss" anyones a$$ , however it wouldn't hurt to say I didn't play my best BUT, ___Insert Players Name Here____ played great/good, took advantage etc.......


Moreover, I think the main reason Serena doesn't really mention her opponent is because in her mind, it has nothing to do with them, she has always been focused on herself win lose or draw...and thats not a bad thing.


Finally, Serena could be graceful, but then we wouldn't have anything to btch and moan about. At the end of the day, her fans will still be her fans, and those that don't like her will only cite this as another reason they don't like her...which is fine...to each his/her own. I didn't like Martina, I thought she was cocky etc....but she still has her fans and the same can be said for fans of Jenny.

duck
Apr 22nd, 2003, 08:39 PM
I never said she had to be overly gracious, but she, like Potatoman (and in the future, Agassi) could learn a bit of humility. They are, like it or not, ambassadors for the sport, and their attitude will reflect on more than just them.



I think both Hewitt and Agassi are capable of praising oponents who beat them.


When Hewitt had a bad loss to Clavet when sick he at least managed a compliment and gave full props to El A when he lost at the Aus Open.
(post edited for clarity)

Q. Here's a guy who's retiring at the end of the year, slashing forehands in the second set like he's got nothing to lose, "Let's go for it." Did you have the same kind of feeling about him this evening?
LLEYTON HEWITT: Yeah, I -- yeah, he played as well as he could, I think. You know, I still feel like, you know, it was more because I couldn't go out there and play my game that I wanted to play. You know, he mixed the ball up well and, you know, he went out there and gave everything he had.

(Aus 2003)
Q. Is it more painful for you to lose here than anywhere else?
LLEYTON HEWITT: Yeah, yeah. At the moment, it's really disappointing. You know, no other way of putting it. Hopefully I'm going to have a lot more opportunities and that's the way I've got to look at it. I didn't leave anything out there today. I gave everything I had and he was too good.

Whatever about his behaviour elsewhere he gives credit where it is due.

shap_half
Apr 22nd, 2003, 08:39 PM
I don't think it's about licking someone else's ass. It's basically about being humble. Everytime she loses it's never because the other person beat her, it's always about her not playing at the level she should have been playing. She needs to stop trying to discredit other people's win over her. I mean what else is she doing by saying she played 9000 notches down? She's basically saying that if she had played at her regulay level she would have won. When that isn't even the case. She was trying to play at a high level but couldn't because the person she was playing was too good on clay. How do I know this? They've played before. It's not like Serena doesn't know who she's dealing with. She knows Justine can kick ass on clay why not just admit it? Admit it that someone beat you because they were better that day at that match and not because of some other bullshit excuse!

Midnite Surfer
Apr 22nd, 2003, 08:47 PM
Does anyone believe that Henin actually threw balls at Serena that she has never seen before? She is a professional player and has played against every style in the book. Tennis fans are worse than movie critics. They talk and talk like they have an inkling of an idea of what it is to actually play at a professional level. If you saw the match you would know that Serena had an extremely off day. That doesn't mean that Justine is a bad player or is unable to beat Serena. But the fact is Serena was missing terribly and her serve wasn't even working well. Also, hypochondriac is a very subjective term. How do you know if Serena was a hypochondriac or not? Maybe she did think that she was suffering from a phantom illness.

The term hater is absolutely valid. Haters are people who cannot and will not give Serena the benefit of the doubt. They have an agenda or point that they must make and proceed to work backwards from it.

vs1
Apr 22nd, 2003, 08:49 PM
I don't think it's about licking someone else's ass. It's basically about being humble. Everytime she loses it's never because the other person beat her, it's always about her not playing at the level she should have been playing. She needs to stop trying to discredit other people's win over her. I mean what else is she doing by saying she played 9000 notches down? She's basically saying that if she had played at her regulay level she would have won. When that isn't even the case. She was trying to play at a high level but couldn't because the person she was playing was too good on clay. How do I know this? They've played before. It's not like Serena doesn't know who she's dealing with. She knows Justine can kick ass on clay why not just admit it? Admit it that someone beat you because they were better that day at that match and not because of some other bullshit excuse!

Hmmm...Serena HAS beaten Justine on clay at a Tier 1 event. And if she DID play at her normal level, she probably WOULD have won. We all saw that Serena wasn't play well...making errors, stupid ones. And Justine was the recipient of all the errors.

TennisHack
Apr 22nd, 2003, 08:54 PM
I think both Hewitt and Agassi are capable of praising oponents who beat them.


When Hewitt had a bad loss to Clavet when sick he at least managed a compliment and gave full props when he lost at the Aus Open.

Actually, Potato lost to Clavet in Miami. He is more gracious than Serena, I'll give him that.

CapFan#1
Apr 22nd, 2003, 08:54 PM
Why is it that Serena must be compared to Cappy. It is pointless! You can say what you want about Cappy - temper on the court, foul language (OMG), but she NEVER, NEVER slams the other players. And this is exactly why I'm not a big fan of Serena. It's always one excuse or another and no class shown to the other players, except Venus. She has a lot of growing up to do.

WtaTour4Ever
Apr 22nd, 2003, 08:58 PM
All I'm saying is that it could be a little more balanced, NO Serena wasn't at her best, however, she has been in that position before and still won. whats wrong with saying I had an off day BUT/AND Justine took advantage and made me play etc....

leslie
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:07 PM
Serena is held to a higher standard because she's the #1 player in the world and supposedly an ambassador for tennis. It may be her nature to play herself up or down, but its ungracious and doesn't set a good example to other players or casual fans.

Serena doesn't "attack" other players but she swipes them with backhanded compliments. The comment in the question was about how Serena said the only reason Justine beat her is because she was playing sooooo far below her level. That smacks of sour grapes and immaturity. She didn't outright say, "The only reason Justine beat me was because I played far below my level" but that's the gist of what she said. As if no one had the right to defeat her in the first place.

As for the hypochondriac statement, well, if you don't understand that Serena was insulting herself there, then there's not much I can do for you.

Why should Serena be setting an example for the others player they are all adults, let them set they own example. And by the way, didn't Justine say something negative about Serena. You people are all a bunch of jealous bitches. Serena speaks her mind and that is fine with me. And she should feel that no one have the right to defeat her that is why she is #1. Live with it.

TSequoia01
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:09 PM
I really am puzzled what people want from Serena. Both Sisters give credit to their opponents match in and match out. I think what is desired is disingenuousness. Many criticized both Venus and Serena for not raising their racquet on netcord balls. Like players are truly sorry the ball trickled over and they got a point. Enough with the BS, say what you mean and mean what you say. :cool:

leslie
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:18 PM
Definition of Hypochondria: The persistent neurotic conviction that one is or is likely to become ill, often involving experiences of ral pain when illness is neither present nor likely.

Now, please tell me where was Serena wrong in using that word. Her usage of the word was correct.

leslie
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:25 PM
Why is it that Serena must be compared to Cappy. It is pointless! You can say what you want about Cappy - temper on the court, foul language (OMG), but she NEVER, NEVER slams the other players. And this is exactly why I'm not a big fan of Serena. It's always one excuse or another and no class shown to the other players, except Venus. She has a lot of growing up to do.

I have heard Jen slam Serena and Venus so don't even try that one.

SerenaSlam
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:27 PM
yes, it very much cracks me up, b/c what you all are sayin can be sumed up on you wanting to say it exactly like this (but most of you are just not outspoken like me, and therefore, run around a lot of your opinions, and turn them into long Bull shit post like these)...you all know you want serena to say when she looses every time.

"they were just too good, i played great tennis, but they are better than me and they just beat me"

You the haters in here fail to realize, is the simple fact, that just like Pam Shriver and Mary Carillo have said over and over again, these Matches are not in the opponents hands. Now, you can no longer beat the sisters on your best ability against their best. You have to "hope" in every match you play against them, that they don't play well, or that they make errors. And when Serena looses a match, in which she had way more winners than her opponent and way more errors, she has every right to say everything the way she says it, and if she gives them an "inch of credit" like stating in most of her looses, "she played some good shots here and there" i personally feel that is more than enough credit to give to an opponent, you know you beat yourself at. That is just it people, Serena/Venus feel when they loose, every time its b/c of "how" they played, and then to a certain extent, you can factor in the point they their oppoent played great (but opponent played no different from when they have beaten them before in the past)

Serena has always given credit to her opponents after she wins or looses, but I think everyone is haivng a problem b/c she isn't given ENOUGH credit. Personally, If i was out there, id lay it flat out there on the line, if i on, i played better than her today, even though i was making errors.

If i lost? She played better than me yes, but did she win against me or did i beat myself? Well when I look at the numbers and see that I had 42 winners to her 8, but 64 errors to her 16, the thought of her "actually beating me" would have never crossed my mind for w/ those types of numbers, its clear i was the one "dictating", and i dictated myself right to a loss (probably to an opponent i've never lost to)

Callie20
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:28 PM
I don't think it's about licking someone else's ass. It's basically about being humble. Everytime she loses it's never because the other person beat her, it's always about her not playing at the level she should have been playing. She needs to stop trying to discredit other people's win over her. I mean what else is she doing by saying she played 9000 notches down? She's basically saying that if she had played at her regulay level she would have won. When that isn't even the case. She was trying to play at a high level but couldn't because the person she was playing was too good on clay. How do I know this? They've played before. It's not like Serena doesn't know who she's dealing with. She knows Justine can kick ass on clay why not just admit it? Admit it that someone beat you because they were better that day at that match and not because of some other bullshit excuse!


I just believe that Serena was being truthful about her last loss to Henin. Serena was playing below par Tennis, and if anyone didn't notice that, they were doing wishful thinking. Also, don't forget that Serena won the French Open last year, so she is also more than capable of winnng on clay. Some people are just so bias. :rolleyes:

SerenaSlam
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:32 PM
Hendouble, you are right about other players being a little ungracious in their press conferences, but I guess it's SERENA. Others can get away with it, but Serena cannot because of the hate.

I for one do believe that Serena was a hypochondriac. She use to have a fear of losing, and that is what caused her problems with Capriati. When a person gets nervous they can have extreme stomach pain. But I am happy that she has gotten over that and stopped with the excuses.

IMO, Serena has always been in your face. She doesn't attack players, but speaks highly of herself and her abilities. Some people cannot deal with someone with so much confidence, brashness, and she is unapologetic about it. She isn't rude, but it rubs the haters the wrong way which doesn't matter anyways, because they would hate her regardless.
OHH SHIT TALK ABOUT IT, HERE AGAIN TELLIN IT LIKE IT IS, I MEAN THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE THINKING, THEY REALLY CAN'T STAND SERENA'S CONFIDENSE LEVEL, AND HELL, IF I HAD HER GAME, I'D PROBABLY BE A HELL A LOT WORSE THAN HER, CUZ EVEN WHEN I LOOSE I'D PROBABLY STILL BE TALKIN BOUT MATCHES IN THE PAST, WHERE I WAS WHIPPIN UP ON FOLKS. I THINK ALL IN ALL, ITS A MATTER OF UPBRINING, AND LIKE VENUS/SERENA HAVE SAID, THEIR MOTHER TAUGHT THEM TO KEEP THEY HEADS HIGH AND REACH FOR THE MUTHAFUCKIN SKY(not said exactly like that...but...) WITH THAT SAID, ITS HITS ALL POINTS IN ALL CORNERS AND ANGLES

irma
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:34 PM
keep it up serena butter on your head makes your hair fat!

angele87
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:39 PM
I don't think most people's problems lie with Serena not giving enough credit but rather with Serena saying yeah she played well BUT I played like crap, I was 9000 notches below my game or I felt like I was a 98 year old out there. It might be true that Serena would of won if she had played better but who cares?? A little common curtesy (sp?) would go a long way sometimes. Sure Serena doesn't need to think her game was brilliant everytime she loses and she can know that she played like crap but what good is it going to do to go give excuses each and every time she loses? I think we forget that these people are actually human and that after coming off one of the best wins of their career the last thing they want to hear is that Serena is telling everybody how horrible she played. I think it would be much appreciated by everybody if she just said look, she was too good for me today and leave it at that!

WtaTour4Ever
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:41 PM
keep it up serena butter on your head makes your hair fat!
what?

All4Williams
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:45 PM
I guess if you lose a match because of a high UE count it is valid to say that your game was well below par?

irma
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:47 PM
I want my favs to tell the truth instead of butter the opponent up.
I don't want them to be liars!

TSequoia01
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:47 PM
Actually, Serena criticizes her performances when she wins, so one must know what is coming when she loses. :cool:

1jackson2001
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:48 PM
Venus is all class. :cool: :wavey:

SerenaSlam
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:50 PM
I want my favs to tell the truth instead of butter the opponent up.
I don't want them to be liars!
you people kill me when you experss your opinions, but you have nothing to back them up, so tell me, where is it that Serena is lying? (and if you muthafucka try and ask/tell me where did you say this? its very plain and claer you are assuming this)

Serena 1 is not lieng, she did play bad in ALL HER LOOSES, and 2, her opponents playe no different than what they played before when she beats them.

irma
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:50 PM
what?

I am just tired of the hypocrites who bash players who hate losing and tell how they feel and don't like baking sweet breads!

I saw pinocchio and the message was lying is bad :p

irma
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:52 PM
he I am on serena side in this!

irma
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:54 PM
but to make is clear people want serena to say my opponent was much better then me when she loses while she feels I sucked.

so when she would do what those people want then she is lying but she is not!

steffi was the same and she got bashed for it too!

1jackson2001
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:55 PM
I guess if you lose a match because of a high UE count it is valid to say that your game was well below par?

You see, it's one of those things....when a player (say Serena) often claims she played below her level/game when she wins or loses....doesn't that make her AT THAT LEVEL? If you play "below your (supposed) game" often..maybe it's cuz your not at that higher level anymore. Or maybe you never reached that level, and it was just that match or two that you played on fire/"match of your life".

I mean what happened to your game if you always seem to play below par...maybe cuz you are below par (compared to past) player now. I know it's all about potential, but her match against Lindsay @ Charleston..she played over her own 100% (ie what we see usually when they are "at their game") for a set a few games.

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:55 PM
Look I agree Serena is not used to losing but thats no excuse for what she said about Henin. The reason she was 9000 notches below her game was because Henin played in such a way that it made it difficult for Serena to play her game.

And before you brand me a hater, I LIKE Serena.


and thats why elena beat justine because elean played in sucha way that it made it difficult for justine to play her game.

Kart
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:56 PM
you people kill me when you experss your opinions, but you have nothing to back them up, so tell me, where is it that Serena is lying? (and if you muthafucka try and ask/tell me where did you say this? its very plain and claer you are assuming this)

Serena 1 is not lieng, she did play bad in ALL HER LOOSES, and 2, her opponents playe no different than what they played before when she beats them.

Mate, I think you missed the point. Irma is saying that Serena should tell it like it is, NOT lie.

selesfan
Apr 22nd, 2003, 10:02 PM
Serena is telling the truth about herself, she usually puts herself down but also says her opponent played great. Lets face is Serena is not the only player who makes comments about her opponents after a loss. ;)

WtaTour4Ever
Apr 22nd, 2003, 10:03 PM
you people kill me when you experss your opinions, but you have nothing to back them up, so tell me, where is it that Serena is lying? (and if you muthafucka try and ask/tell me where did you say this? its very plain and claer you are assuming this)

Serena 1 is not lieng, she did play bad in ALL HER LOOSES, and 2, her opponents playe no different than what they played before when she beats them.


LOL I think he is supporting Serena .....might wanna read it before you go off :-)

eshell
Apr 22nd, 2003, 10:04 PM
Serena's confidence can inspire.

On some levels, I appreciate that she can honestly evaluate her own game.

On other levels, I would like for her to say that "Justine was just too consistent today." (as an example)

With that said, Serena's one of my favorites because of her game, her fashion, her personality, and her demeanor.

duck
Apr 22nd, 2003, 10:06 PM
Actually, Potato lost to Clavet in Miami. He is more gracious than Serena, I'll give him that.


I know that. My syntax and the fact that I could not remember to spell El Aynaoui misled you. I put his response to that loss below his response to the Clavet loss.

mentos
Apr 22nd, 2003, 10:21 PM
Sniffle...Sniffle.. Serena is an ungracious b!tch!
Maybe she should be more like her sister. I mean, thank heaven for Venus.
She’s so courteous and articulate; she’s so regal; she’s so “the fucking Venus Williams”.
If only that awful Serena could switch personalities with her, she’d be completely tennis appropriate, then.

Give ME a break with this nonsense!

Serena is honest (about her on court performance)…honest to a FAULT!!!
And all the FAULT-finders swarm like bees to honey whenever her name is mentioned in any kind of contrived controversy.

BK4ever
Apr 22nd, 2003, 10:33 PM
Fuck John and all the other haters...

People will complain, no matter what V&S does...

When she starts being "gracious" by their standards...then they will complain about something else...

Its the double standard..live with it, deal with it...fuck it

I'm so sick of the same shit over and over again...all u negative MF's...get a life...LOL

CapFan#1
Apr 22nd, 2003, 10:34 PM
I have heard Jen slam Serena and Venus so don't even try that one.


OH BULLSHIT!! :fiery: SHE'S TRADED VERBAL BARBS WITH THEIR IDIOT A-HOLE FATHER BUT THAT'S IT! SHE HAS PRAISED BOTH S+V'S PLAY AFTER MATCHES AND EVEN WHEN SHE HASN'T PLAYED THEM. STOP FUCKING LYING!

aisha
Apr 22nd, 2003, 10:34 PM
:wavey: Freshmaker!

True dat! ;)

shap_half
Apr 22nd, 2003, 11:28 PM
Basically Serena is saying: I played like crap and that's why you won. Otherwise, what you did would never be good enough.

This is isn't even an exaggeration. That's what she means when she says she lost because of this and that. Is that really ok? Is that really being confident? Seriously, if Serena is saying her game was 9000 notches below the normal level then what she is she saying exactly? That if she played her normal game then the other players' current game would not have been good enough to win! That's such bullshit and goes way beyond confidence. That's cocky and disrespectful especially to somone that she, in the past, has lost to.

And why is it such a stretch that the reason Justine defeated Serena was because Justine did well and Serena COULDN'T do well. Patience has always been a flaw in Serena's game and Justine capitalized on it. That's why Serena lost. And she's always been known to get out of these abyssmal performances, why couldn't she do it that day? Serena tried to do everything to win but couldn't not because she was playing poorly but because Justine wouldn't let her play well.

Serena would not be hurt to learn to be a humble person. Serena can learn some common courtesy to respect others.

jenny161185
Apr 22nd, 2003, 11:32 PM
I think serena has changed since 2001 I couldn t stand her after that match when she lost to Hingis 8-6 in the third , both women were playing great tennis and serena comes in to the the press conference and says I don't know how i was able to stand out there i was so sick :rolleyes: and then the same thing happened against cappy at wimby .
She hasn't always given her opponents credit but shes getting better at losing (thats good cos she'll have to get used to it by RG !)

leslie
Apr 22nd, 2003, 11:38 PM
OH BULLSHIT!! :fiery: SHE'S TRADED VERBAL BARBS WITH THEIR IDIOT A-HOLE FATHER BUT THAT'S IT! SHE HAS PRAISED BOTH S+V'S PLAY AFTER MATCHES AND EVEN WHEN SHE HASN'T PLAYED THEM. STOP FUCKING LYING!

You are a liar. First of all Jen is clearly jealous of V/S, she never give them credit, she finds it very difficult to say Serena is dominating women's tennis. I remember reading something where she said that "Venus thinks she is some godness" something like that she said. Venus has never ever said anything negative about jen. Even this last time at NASDAQ Serena said something to the like "if it was not her playing Jen she would of like Jen to win". Something like that Serena said. I guess you hear what you want to hear from Jen.

leslie
Apr 22nd, 2003, 11:46 PM
I think serena has changed since 2001 I couldn t stand her after that match when she lost to Hingis 8-6 in the third , both women were playing great tennis and serena comes in to the the press conference and says I don't know how i was able to stand out there i was so sick :rolleyes: and then the same thing happened against cappy at wimby .
She hasn't always given her opponents credit but shes getting better at losing (thats good cos she'll have to get used to it by RG !)

Don't be to sure about losing at RG. I know you would love for her to lose because she keeps whipping your favs Serena or Venus will bring home that trophy again, hell, it probably will be like Wimbledon or the US open it has been in their family for how many years now, I don't have to tell you I am sure you can figure it out.

Becool
Apr 23rd, 2003, 12:36 AM
Actually, Potato lost to Clavet in Miami. He is more gracious than Serena, I'll give him that.


What? He's more gracious than Serena? My ASS!! HE said that in normal condition he would have won that match! Serena never EVER said a thing like that! She only said that she played below par against Justine that's why she lost!

You people want her to lie? She did play bad! You want her to say "I played well but today she was unbelievable!" No! Cause people saw that match and they know that she didn't play well.. and that Justine didn't play that well but obviously was better than Serena, and like any other tennis player, she took her chances and won..

Serena is very gracious on her defeats. Go see her interviews and you'll see that. People never poist the whole interview only the points where, she actually speaks her mind out. She's not a player who pretends that everything's ok.. that she's fine. NO. If she's sick, she'll tell that she's sick and etc.. She never did a damn excuse! You people should blame Justine for these excuses! Who remember that AUS Open match against Lindsay? When Lindsay was leading, and then to break her ryhtym, Justine fakes a cramp, makes a big drama, and then, next she closes the next games, to win the match.. Who makes up excuses? Serena or Justine?

NOW The Jenny fans are coming down here, to bash Serena saying she's this and she's that! Go **** Yourselves! Jennifer is the most classless dirty player on tour! She use excuses (Who remember that loss to Weingartner at AUS Open? The eye thing? Huh?) She doesn't respect any player, specially on her losses.. (Who will forget when she lost to Venus at Miami 2001 "Oh but she's not unbeatable..') And her interviews are nothing but 'you know's..'

You know what? I never liked Jennifer, since she won her first Grand Slam, and came thinking that SHE who was unbeatable, then some players shut her mouth and then she became fat and now is sucking.. Now go try another hobby then bash Serena, cause you always lose, like you favorite player!

Becool
Apr 23rd, 2003, 12:52 AM
And why is it such a stretch that the reason Justine defeated Serena was because Justine did well and Serena COULDN'T do well. Patience has always been a flaw in Serena's game and Justine capitalized on it. That's why Serena lost. And she's always been known to get out of these abyssmal performances, why couldn't she do it that day? Serena tried to do everything to win but couldn't not because she was playing poorly but because Justine wouldn't let her play well.

Serena would not be hurt to learn to be a humble person. Serena can learn some common courtesy to respect others.


You talk like Serena was some kind of a newbie on clay.. Like she didn't know how to play on that surface, and like she never won a match against Justine, and that's why she had to come with a lame excuse.. What? Serena defeated Justine once, for your information, and on clay.. And for your information, Serena won Roland Garros.. Something that only good clay players could have done.. Have Justine ever won any of these?

Serena played bad. Why would she say that she played well, and Justine played unbelievable, just to look nice? I have never seen a player, who played bad, say that she played well, and her opponent just played better than her, and that's why she lost.. Never.. Maybe Davenport, or Venus.. But because they doesn't have the courage to say what really happened.. Serena played bad and period. Justine played bad too, but enough to beat Serena. And you know what in normal conditions, Serena would win in a way or another. And you seem to like the players that lie, don't you? Being humble? Serena is quite humble for me, she just doesn't lie. She never said anything that wasn't true.

Did you watch that match? Serena played great? Both players were playing great? No. Why then she would say that she played great? I think that's ridiculous.

I would do the same thing as hers, and I'm sure you do too. So stop whinning.. She's very educated, and I think not lying it's a proof that you're well educated..
Serena respects her opponents, her opponents that doesn't respect her, and she, always classy, makes their fans, create this anger on her, like yours BTW

switz
Apr 23rd, 2003, 12:59 AM
ok i found myself doing complete 180s in my opinions as a read this thread. i don't disagree that serena could do with a bit of humility when she loses, but then again i seem to remember her praising patty and chanda when they beat her last year. i also can't stand, however, when people use being confident as an excuse for being rude. if somebody's self-belief is so fragile that they have to constantly pysche themselves up and can never step out of the competition for ten minutes to show some basic human decency, then i think they are going to struggle with life once the competition is over. i really think serena has developed as human being, but i have to note that the progress has come when she started winning everything, and she didn't have to worry about losing very often. the thing i notice is that serena seems to "tell it like it is" much more when she is losing than when she wins. after she wins a match she is perfectly willing to compliment her opponent and profess how well they played, as of course that would mean they played really well but serena is just better. don't get me wrong i think i understand how serena operates, and i don't disagree with the fact that when she loses it is usually going to be because she did not play well. but i think we have seen that serena does not play well all the time against certain players and styles, and that is just a part of tennis, which every player faces, and i don't think even serena can control to a point.

i think that these threads should be banned though, because they always appear and the same arguments are presented. can't we just find something better (ie more positive) to do with our lives?

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 23rd, 2003, 01:04 AM
I think serena has changed since 2001 I couldn t stand her after that match when she lost to Hingis 8-6 in the third , both women were playing great tennis and serena comes in to the the press conference and says I don't know how i was able to stand out there i was so sick :rolleyes: and then the same thing happened against cappy at wimby .
She hasn't always given her opponents credit but shes getting better at losing (thats good cos she'll have to get used to it by RG !)


so if she was sick you'd rather she lie about it? who is the one with the problem?

anyway when serena wins she complains about her game, about playing fifty percent or whatever or missing too many shots or whatever she's not happy with because SHE"S A PERFECTIONIST!!!! If its not pefect she's not happy and if you read or see her interviews she is rarely 100% satisfied with the way she plays so of course she is going to point out what she did wrong or what she should of did differently or how she was feeling especially since THEY ASK HER THESE THINGS.

It seems to me some of you would rather she lie which is a shame.

I dont remember madame graf being to pleasant after she lost but you all grovel on the ground she walks on. Didn't graf say that after garrison beat her that she was no way going to beat martina and win wimbledon, that she had no chance....

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 23rd, 2003, 01:15 AM
Basically Serena is saying: I played like crap and that's why you won. Otherwise, what you did would never be good enough.

This is isn't even an exaggeration. That's what she means when she says she lost because of this and that. Is that really ok? Is that really being confident? Seriously, if Serena is saying her game was 9000 notches below the normal level then what she is she saying exactly? That if she played her normal game then the other players' current game would not have been good enough to win! That's such bullshit and goes way beyond confidence. That's cocky and disrespectful especially to somone that she, in the past, has lost to.

And why is it such a stretch that the reason Justine defeated Serena was because Justine did well and Serena COULDN'T do well. Patience has always been a flaw in Serena's game and Justine capitalized on it. That's why Serena lost. And she's always been known to get out of these abyssmal performances, why couldn't she do it that day? Serena tried to do everything to win but couldn't not because she was playing poorly but because Justine wouldn't let her play well.

Serena would not be hurt to learn to be a humble person. Serena can learn some common courtesy to respect others.


And why is it such a stretch that the reason elena defeated justine was because elena did well and justine COULDN'T do well. That's why justine lost. Justine tried to do everything to win but couldn't not because she was playing poorly but because Elena wouldn't let her play well.

shap_half
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:25 AM
And why is it such a stretch that the reason elena defeated justine was because elena did well and justine COULDN'T do well. That's why justine lost. Justine tried to do everything to win but couldn't not because she was playing poorly but because Elena wouldn't let her play well.


ok i never brought this up. and i have said before that justine didn't play smart tennis that day and that elena on the other hand did play well and capitalized on it.

anyway, i don't think serena would have won against justine under normal conditions. justine beat her before why couldn't she do it again!?! and i agree that neither players during that match didn't play their best. but i think justine had more to do with it than serena. i saw the match. patience has always been serena's problem and she likes to play on her own pace which justine didn't let happen by mixing her game up.

ok, the reason why i keep on this is because serena makes it seem like justine would not have defeated her had it been "normal" conditions, which is arrogant to me because justine has defeated her and vice versa. but the fact of the matter is justine has defeated her in what was a thrilling match in berlin. so by stating her game was below par makes it seem as if had it not been below par she would have won. and statistics show that justine had defeated her on a good day, why not in the fcc?

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:39 AM
ok i never brought this up. and i have said before that justine didn't play smart tennis that day and that elena on the other hand did play well and capitalized on it.

anyway, i don't think serena would have won against justine under normal conditions. justine beat her before why couldn't she do it again!?! and i agree that neither players during that match didn't play their best. but i think justine had more to do with it than serena. i saw the match. patience has always been serena's problem and she likes to play on her own pace which justine didn't let happen by mixing her game up.

ok, the reason why i keep on this is because serena makes it seem like justine would not have defeated her had it been "normal" conditions, which is arrogant to me because justine has defeated her and vice versa. but the fact of the matter is justine has defeated her in what was a thrilling match in berlin. so by stating her game was below par makes it seem as if had it not been below par she would have won. and statistics show that justine had defeated her on a good day, why not in the fcc?

so wise one then why didn't justine beat serena in rome last year? Funny how you forgot to mention rome where serena won. Also that thrilling match in berlin both played well and it came down to a TIE BREAKER in the third! Anyone could have won or lost that match.

shap_half
Apr 23rd, 2003, 04:15 AM
so wise one then why didn't justine beat serena in rome last year? Funny how you forgot to mention rome where serena won. Also that thrilling match in berlin both played well and it came down to a TIE BREAKER in the third! Anyone could have won or lost that match.

i know that serena has defeated justine before. justine has been defeated by serena many times before and that's why i figure it doesn't need to be brought up. my point is that serena is being extremely arrogant by saying she lost to justine only because she was 9000 notches down but when they were both at their best justine defeated her and at the next competition, they played 2 close sets. i mean i would be very arrogant if i told someone that has defeated me before when we were playing great tennis that the next time they beat me is only because i was malfunctioning at an abyssmal level.

and yes serena is very capable on clay. i never disregarded that. but if justine beat her when both are their best and they play 2 close sets the next time they met with still very great tennis and she would disregard her win at fcc as void because she was down, she's being beyond honest and confident. she's being very arrogant and cocky.

persond
Apr 23rd, 2003, 04:45 AM
Ah yes, "the hate". This is right up there with such tried-and-trusted conspiracy theories as the real story behind the JFK assassination, the fraudulence of NASA's supposed landing on the Moon, etc, and just as believable.

And sorry if I misunderstand you, but you also seem to be saying that hypochondria is a medical condition that actually causes pain, when in fact it's entirely mental. If Serena was actually suffering from stomach cramps then fine, but hypochondria is the wrong phrase to coin.


However, there have been instances of the "mental" taking on "real manifestations" and "symptomatology"!!! Would you believe "she could have really suffered real pain/discomfort?????? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hurley
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:26 AM
Yes, that's all well and good.

But re: the "hypochondriac" quote: she didn't know what it meant. No matter how you spin it, she still used the word incorrectly. That is not debatable.

leslie
Apr 23rd, 2003, 12:40 PM
Yes, that's all well and good.

But re: the "hypochondriac" quote: she didn't know what it meant. No matter how you spin it, she still used the word incorrectly. That is not debatable.

No, she did not use it incorrectly. I suggest you look up the meaning of the word.

doloresc
Apr 23rd, 2003, 12:45 PM
great, passionate posts all around. i want to echo the sentiments of those who made the correlation between serena and graf. i'm a die hard graf fan and even i can admit that you literally had to pry a compliment out of her for her opponent, win or lose. does anyone recall the 1994 us open final and sanchez vicario saying, "i don't think steffi likes me"? well, i believe it's the same case with serena. she's a world class athlete and champion and the reason she's #1 is due to total self-belief. i think for gifted people like graf and serena, they are under the impression that praising their opponents is a sign of weakness and vulnerability has no place in tennis, on the court or off.

personally i'd like serena to be more generous in her praise for other players but i completely understand why she doesn't. like graf, serena doesn't want to give contenders to her crown any extra incentive.

JenCpLvr
Apr 23rd, 2003, 01:06 PM
LOL. Serena's game was 7,000 notches down against Henin, but she still lost it. I admire Serena's honesty though of how she feels, but it can come off as ungracious. However, what she doesn't get credit for is giving opponents praise in the past.

I also think it's funny when we don't hear any whining when the other players have their negative stuff to say about Rena. Justine wasn't very classy either after she did defeat Rena.

And Jen shouldn't even be compared to Rena, she is in a whole different class by herself.


Where do you come up with that?????? :fiery: :fiery:

Justine praised Serena aftershe defeated her at FCC saying "Serena is a great champion" and "It takes a lot to beat her"

Some people are so bitter it makes me sick. Get a life! :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: :fiery:

JenCpLvr
Apr 23rd, 2003, 01:18 PM
It's obvious that Serena expects herself to win every match and feels that she is at a notch higher than all the rest. In her interview at FCC for example, she said "I'll keep the outfit I wear in the finals for memorabilia" --> referring to her "win" this year at RG.. This goes to show that she expects to beat everyone and if she doesn't.. she is going to blame it on an ailment, sickness.. blah blah.. It's never that she got outplayed on a certain day...Because Serena could "beat everyone" if she's have an A day. Crap.

Jut read her interviews people.. It gives a lot of insight into who she is.

servenrichie
Apr 23rd, 2003, 01:33 PM
Well thank God she is who she is. Imagine being someone else and loosing every friggin' match!

servenrichie
Apr 23rd, 2003, 01:37 PM
@shap_half going by your logic, no one can describe how stupid and pathetic Henin must be -playing three close sets against dementieva and ended up loosing it. Why couldnt she just change her strategy, using those variety of shots, that made her according to your warped logic - very intelligent and clever :devil:

Infiniti2001
Apr 23rd, 2003, 01:47 PM
It's a good thing Serena don't give a damn :)

servenrichie
Apr 23rd, 2003, 01:52 PM
Bla! bla! bla!
It is the same drivel over and over again."Serena is a bad looser" "Serena doesnt compliment her opponents"
What is most pathetic is the pattern here. Yes, some of you latching on to "liking Venus" to cover your obsessive hatred of Serena (and Williams). As if it makes any difference to them. Everyday, it makes me happy, that inspite of all the scripts the tennis establishment writes for them, they simply side-step those scripts and march to their own tunes and they are very successful at that. I remember not long ago on this board and in the media how they were bashed for playing less tournies inorder to take care of their body. They were demonized. Two years later, every friggin top player has reduced the number of tournies they played and it became the "clever" thing to do. Do you all stop and think at all? :devil: :fiery:

gentenaire
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:00 PM
No, she did not use it incorrectly. I suggest you look up the meaning of the word.

So Serena really said, "I'm sick, but there's nothing wrong with me, it's just in my head"? Isn't the moment you realise it's just in your head, your imagination, the moment the pain goes away?

leslie
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:09 PM
So Serena really said, "I'm sick, but there's nothing wrong with me, it's just in my head"? Isn't the moment you realise it's just in your head, your imagination, the moment the pain goes away?

What the hell are you saying. Go back a couple of post and see my definition. You people are so jealous of Serena and Venus it that this is all you do all day is fine negative things to say about them. When Venus starts winning the GS this year you all will be finding a lot of fault about her also. Just leave those young ladies alone because they do not gave a damn what anyone says about them.

Chance
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:11 PM
lol@SS- totally went over your head.

Basically I agree with Wtatour4eva but
does anyone have Serena's interview after her loss to Justine? Or are we assuming because the reporters chose to use that particular quote that Serena didn't give any credit to Justine.

At the end does Justine really care what Serena said?

CapFan#1
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:13 PM
You are a liar. First of all Jen is clearly jealous of V/S, she never give them credit, she finds it very difficult to say Serena is dominating women's tennis. I remember reading something where she said that "Venus thinks she is some godness" something like that she said. Venus has never ever said anything negative about jen. Even this last time at NASDAQ Serena said something to the like "if it was not her playing Jen she would of like Jen to win". Something like that Serena said. I guess you hear what you want to hear from Jen.

NO, you are misinformed and you hear what you want to hear. Check out the Tennis magazine issue previewing last years US Open. There is a quote from Jenny praising Serena's improved play over the last year. Face it, your Serena is a big SORE LOSER with a bunch of fucking excuses!

gentenaire
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:22 PM
The persistent neurotic conviction that one is or is likely to become ill, often involving experiences of ral pain when illness is neither present nor likely.


when illness is not present nor likely = not ill
persistent neurotic conviction that one is ill = it's in your head

So basically, it's when you're not really ill, you just think you are. And this is not something you say of yourself, "I just think I'm ill, but I know I'm not." That doesn't make sense. The point of this condition is that you don't know you have it, the moment you realise you have it, it's over. An anorexic genuinly believes she's too fat, even if she isn't. The moment she realises it's in her head, that's she not really too fat, that she's in fact dangerously thin, is the first step of the healing process.

And Leslie, honestly, I'm sick of the 'jealousy' argument. If you really believe I'm posting here on WTAworld because I'm jealous of the players, think again. If you think I'm jealous of everyone I criticize, think again.

CapFan#1
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:31 PM
NOW The Jenny fans are coming down here, to bash Serena saying she's this and she's that! Go **** Yourselves! Jennifer is the most classless dirty player on tour! She use excuses (Who remember that loss to Weingartner at AUS Open? The eye thing? Huh?) She doesn't respect any player, specially on her losses.. (Who will forget when she lost to Venus at Miami 2001 "Oh but she's not unbeatable..') And her interviews are nothing but 'you know's..'

You know what? I never liked Jennifer, since she won her first Grand Slam, and came thinking that SHE who was unbeatable, then some players shut her mouth and then she became fat and now is sucking.. Now go try another hobby then bash Serena, cause you always lose, like you favorite player!

GO FUCK YOURSELF!! If you had actually read Jen's interview after her loss to Weingargtner she said Marlene played great tennis, and she said of herself that she felt un-prepared due to recent(less than 1 month ago) eye SURGERY- which you DUMB ASS, would greatly affect one's ability to play, since seeing the ball clearly is HUGE in tennis. IN her loss to Venus in 2001, the REPORTERS ASKED HER DIRECTLY, do you think Venus is unbeatable - why wouldn't she answer no, esp. when Jen had 8 match points against Venus in that match. You know what, dont like Jen and that's ok, 'cause no one gives a fuck, but get your fact straight. :fiery:

servenrichie
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:31 PM
Well then Beggin' Beguine going by your argument, Serena became well after realising, that she wasnt sick afterall. She put her game and her head together and started winning. So where is the problem?

servenrichie
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:34 PM
pcornille wrote:

GO FUCK YOURSELF!! If you had actually read Jen's interview after her loss to Weingargtner she said Marlene played great tennis, and she said of herself that she felt un-prepared due to recent(less than 1 month ago) eye SURGERY- which you DUMB ASS, would greatly affect one's ability to play, since seeing the ball clearly is HUGE in tennis. IN her loss to Venus in 2001, the REPORTERS ASKED HER DIRECTLY, do you think Venus is unbeatable - why wouldn't she answer no, esp. when Jen had 8 match points against Venus in that match. You know what, dont like Jen and that's ok, 'cause no one gives a fuck, but get your fact straight.
=======================

So why dont you extend that same understanding over to Serena. She has beaten Justine many times before and said in her loss that she didnt play well, so what's your point?

CapFan#1
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:43 PM
pcornille wrote:

GO FUCK YOURSELF!! If you had actually read Jen's interview after her loss to Weingargtner she said Marlene played great tennis, and she said of herself that she felt un-prepared due to recent(less than 1 month ago) eye SURGERY- which you DUMB ASS, would greatly affect one's ability to play, since seeing the ball clearly is HUGE in tennis. IN her loss to Venus in 2001, the REPORTERS ASKED HER DIRECTLY, do you think Venus is unbeatable - why wouldn't she answer no, esp. when Jen had 8 match points against Venus in that match. You know what, dont like Jen and that's ok, 'cause no one gives a fuck, but get your fact straight.
=======================

So why dont you extend that same understanding over to Serena. She has beaten Justine many times before and said in her loss that she didnt play well, so what's your point?
I have extended that same understanding to Serena. My point is Becool needs to get the facts straight. Becool said the Jen blamed her loss to MW due to an "eye thing"...
1. it was not an "eye thing", it was eye surgery- big difference there
2. she really praised MW's play in that match, and complimented her on doing well
3. I have no problem if a player is slightly injured or ill and affects their play and they bring it up in a post match interview. However, they should also show eneogh class to compliment the other player's play.
4. Isn't it peculiar that EVERY time Serena losses, she has some excuse, unlike say when Jen loss to Davenport last week, she had no excuses, just PRAISE for Davey's awesome play.

AND THAT IS MY POINT :)

leslie
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:44 PM
NO, you are misinformed and you hear what you want to hear. Check out the Tennis magazine issue previewing last years US Open. There is a quote from Jenny praising Serena's improved play over the last year. Face it, your Serena is a big SORE LOSER with a bunch of fucking excuses!

I guess to you she is a SORE LOSER because she kicks jen's butt whenever they play. And Jen hasn't won a title in how many months now?

brickhousesupporter
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:44 PM
So Serena really said, "I'm sick, but there's nothing wrong with me, it's just in my head"? Isn't the moment you realise it's just in your head, your imagination, the moment the pain goes away?

No she said that she doesn't understand why she always seems to get sick and she doesn't understand why these types of things happen to her. She said maybe she is a hypochondriac. I think that fits perfectly with the previous statements. I never really understood why people thought she used the word incorrectly.

leslie
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:45 PM
when illness is not present nor likely = not ill
persistent neurotic conviction that one is ill = it's in your head

So basically, it's when you're not really ill, you just think you are. And this is not something you say of yourself, "I just think I'm ill, but I know I'm not." That doesn't make sense. The point of this condition is that you don't know you have it, the moment you realise you have it, it's over. An anorexic genuinly believes she's too fat, even if she isn't. The moment she realises it's in her head, that's she not really too fat, that she's in fact dangerously thin, is the first step of the healing process.

And Leslie, honestly, I'm sick of the 'jealousy' argument. If you really believe I'm posting here on WTAworld because I'm jealous of the players, think again. If you think I'm jealous of everyone I criticize, think again.

No, you are not jealous just hateful.

leslie
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:46 PM
GO FUCK YOURSELF!! If you had actually read Jen's interview after her loss to Weingargtner she said Marlene played great tennis, and she said of herself that she felt un-prepared due to recent(less than 1 month ago) eye SURGERY- which you DUMB ASS, would greatly affect one's ability to play, since seeing the ball clearly is HUGE in tennis. IN her loss to Venus in 2001, the REPORTERS ASKED HER DIRECTLY, do you think Venus is unbeatable - why wouldn't she answer no, esp. when Jen had 8 match points against Venus in that match. You know what, dont like Jen and that's ok, 'cause no one gives a fuck, but get your fact straight. :fiery:

And that eye surgery thing is not an excuse? Oh, it is only an excuse if it is made by a Williams.

SJW
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:49 PM
ROTF@Serena Slam! tehehehehe Irma was defending Serena.

im a firm believer in bluntness and one of my fave sayings is "tell it like it is"

if someone beat Serena and she says "OMG i was playing so well and she still beat me" when in fact she made tooo many errors i would be like "what fucking ever". i dont like that. i dont think sugarcoating her loss is the right way to go about it.

on the other hand if someone beat Serena when she was creaming the winners (ala Seles LA (?) 2001 or so i hear) then yea i would expect her to give full credit.

apparently she is arrogant.....but how many people beat an "on" Serena? she has all the right in tennis to be arrogant.

i prefer she IS how she is rather than being real nice and struggling to win a match

gentenaire
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:52 PM
No she said that she doesn't understand why she always seems to get sick and she doesn't understand why these types of things happen to her. She said maybe she is a hypochondriac. I think that fits perfectly with the previous statements. I never really understood why people thought she used the word incorrectly.

If that's how she said; it's definitely wrong. A hypochondriac isn't someone who doesn't understand why (s)he's ill.

gentenaire
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:53 PM
No, you are not jealous just hateful.

If you say so :D

CapFan#1
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:56 PM
And that eye surgery thing is not an excuse? Oh, it is only an excuse if it is made by a Williams.
I don't know why I even bother, but... Yes the eye surgery was an excuse/explanation of her low play, however she showed class and respect by praising MW's play as well after that match. THAT IS THE POINT EVERYONE IS TRYING TO MAKE HERE... SERENA CAN SAY SHE WAS SICK, INJURED, WHATEVER... BUT SHOW SOME RESPECT TO YOUR PEERS AND COMPLIMENT THEM ON THEIR PLAY. THEY WERE ON THE COURT AS WELL. AND, ALSO DON'T HAVE AN EXCUSE EVERY TIME YOU LOSE.. IT JUST REEKS OF SORE LOSER, ARROGANCE, AND BAD FORM.

Chance
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:56 PM
I'm bored, actually I think we're all bored if we are talking about 2001 but here is Serena's interview from 2001
THE CHAMPIONSHIPS
WIMBLEDON, ENGLAND

July 3, 2001

J. CAPRIATI/S. Williams
6-7, 7-5, 6-3

An interview with:

SERENA WILLIAMS

MODERATOR: Ladies and Gentlemen, Serena Williams.

Q. You said the other day that at the French, it was an impostor out there in your place. Who was out there today and what physical struggles did you have to go through?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, I was definitely playing out there. I think in the end I lost the match because Jennifer just picked up her game and played a bit better.

Q. What were the physical problems that you were having? Will it interfere with the doubles, for example, this afternoon?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah, for four days now I've just been struggling. When was the last match I played before? The Round of 16, I think I played, that was on a Friday, when I played Gagliardi. Was that on a Friday? Yes, no?

Q. Friday or Saturday.

SERENA WILLIAMS: That's when I got this sickness. I haven't been able to really eat since. I haven't been right since. It was just, ugh, going on emotion.

Q. What was it diagnosed as by the doctor?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah, I went to the doctor twice. It was gas , I don't know, gastromunical (phonetic) virus, viral infection. I think maybe I've had it for a while, and it's just come to its apex now maybe.

Q. How have you been treating it?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, I've been taking a lot of Pepto-Bismol, Imodium AD, things like that.

Q. Did you think of pulling out of the tournament?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I did. I started not to play Maggie Maleeva. I went to the WTA and I was like, "I don't know if I can do it." So I was pretty happy that I did. I don't know how I got through. I was thinking about pulling out before that match.

Q. So you're getting, what, after three, four, five games, you start to feel weak because you're not able to eat before the match?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah, I just have no energy. Just like usually I'm a strong person, you know, I'm very well-conditioned. It's just like I'm just totally going on emotion, not anything physical at all.

Q. You came very close to winning this match, though. Were you surprising yourself given your condition?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I guess maybe, yeah. But, you know, I think I -- I still think I could have won had I just toughed up for a couple more points.

Q. You were up Love-30 in the second set, two points from winning it. Actually, just played a great point, surprising Capriati at the net for the volley winner. At that point how were you feeling?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, obviously I was feeling like I'm going in for the win, I'm just trying to take it, you know. But things didn't turn out that way.

Q. But right at that point when she served at Love-30, were you feeling okay, or did she just suck it up and play great tennis from that point?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I think, you know, she definitely sucked it up and started playing some great tennis at that point, for sure. I definitely think she went out there and just went for broke, didn't have anything to lose. So she was like, "I'm going to go for it all."

Q. Were you playing in pain?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I wasn't in pain. I was just -- yeah, I guess I was in pain. Yeah, for sure.

Q. When you rushed out ...

SERENA WILLIAMS: Nausea.

Q. ... were you sick?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah. It was bizarre. I've never had this. I've never even had this in practise. It's not like I had a chance to, you know, kind of deal with this before.

Q. It seemed like a wild match with just no pattern to it at all. How would you describe it?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah, I think we both made a ton of errors. I know I did - and she did. I think overall, it was a good match for the fans.

Q. When you left at 4-Love in the third, did you get sick?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah. I was really nauseated. I just had to get out of there. I don't know how I came back. I was thinking, "Oh, man." It was horrible.

Q. It was like a goo that you were ingesting?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah. It's something that's supposed to help nausea, you know, just all that. It's like a Pepto-Bismol-type thing. It's really, really bad tasting.

Q. You had, I guess, 75 unforced errors. Do you think a lot of that was because maybe you were rushing points?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah, I just knew when I had to come out here, I should just go for it because I -- my energy level without food for four days is not going to be, you know, the best. So I just went out there. I knew that I had to either do that or...

Q. Are you sticking with it for the doubles this afternoon?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I don't know. I mean, right now I have the chills, I don't feel well, I have a horrible headache. I'm not alive right now, so...

Q. Have you lost weight the last several days?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah.

Q. If so, how much?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I have, I have. I've lost about four pounds. But I have such a high metabolism, if I don't eat for three days, I'll lose like eight pounds. Fortunately I've only lost like four. It's a great diet (laughter).

Q. What has been your diet for the last four days?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, yesterday I was pretty happy because I had a little pasta. I had a little banana in my match today. I had a little pasta earlier today. Let's see. I think that's about it. I had a yogurt a couple days ago maybe. Then I just couldn't keep it down. It just kept coming up.

Q. This sickness, did it affect you in your other matches earlier in the tournament?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Like I said, I don't know. I was going to pull out against the Maleeva match. My trainer Carey (phonetic) was like, "If you can just get through this day." "Okay, okay." I wrote on my notes, "We'll hit a bunch of aces, a bunch of winners, see what happens." Fortunately enough, I don't know how I was able to come through that match so quick and easy like that. I was really shocked and surprised. I was really happy that I actually stuck in there and played her.

Q. What's up with your matches with Jennifer?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah, what is it, 1-4 now?

Q. You said you were an impostor at Roland Garros, hobbled at Ericsson.

SERENA WILLIAMS: I think there's about three matches against her that I actually should have won. I know there's one match that maybe I shouldn't have won. I really wasn't mentally there a couple years ago. The last three matches, I really think I really had a chance to win . Maybe not at the Ericsson - I was really, really hurt. I couldn't even run. As a matter of fact, I had to pull out of the rest of the clay court season after that. So maybe not that one. But I think the last two matches I think I had my chance, but she actually picked up the level of her game. Like I said, she won just because she picked up her level.

Q. Is it getting to your head a little bit, your problems with Jennifer?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I don't have any problems. I just think my problem I'm a hypochondriac, that's it.

Q. What's your thought on the Henin-Capriati match-up?

SERENA WILLIAMS: It's a great match-up. Henin is playing great. I don't know. It should be a good match, for sure.

Q. Are you disappointed? Coming into a Grand Slam, you're at the opposite end of your sister, a potential final, the press, the fact that you aren't able to play your best?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Seems like every time I get up, I'm only to be put down. I don't know. Maybe I should go see like a doctor and just get -- like I said, I might be a hypochondriac, no kidding.

Q. Did the number of long points, so many deuces, that sort of thing, work against you, considering your condition?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I think, yeah, obviously. If I could have been able to put some of those points away instead of making an error, doing things like that, I think that definitely would have helped. But some points she really just hit winners, she hit a good serve. She really played her game. She really went all out. She just went for it. Couldn't blame her.

Q. During the actual match today, did you think you might have to pull out at some point?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, after the first set, believe it or not, I was just like,"Ugh."

Q. It's been almost two years since you won a Slam title. Is that a bit surprising?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah, of course. Really, really surprising. Really disappointing. Extremely upsetting. But, you know, I'm only 19. People out there, I still have a lot of time on my hands.

Q. Are you taking care of yourself physically the way you should be or do you think you just have bad luck by eating the wrong things?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I honestly think I have bad luck. I went home after the French and I worked really hard only to have this setback. It was pretty disappointing (tearing up), as you can see.

Q. When you look back on this match, how much do you think you'll attribute this loss to the way Capriati played and how much to the illness?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Like I said, I definitely think I should have won. I think she really picked up her game in the end. I think she really went out there, and I was up 30-Love. She really started turning her hips, hitting deep balls, really going for it. She definitely deserved the win because she picked up the level of her game, and mine kind of stayed at the same level.

Q. You have had a couple of big matches in the past against your sister, for example, a three-setter at Key Biscayne. Venus just ran away at the end of the match. Do you feel like you need to work on closing matches out?

SERENA WILLIAMS: No. I'm usually able to close out my opponents, for sure. This is the first time I haven't closed out an opponent in a minute. But usually I'm able to close out my opponents.

Q. Last year for example in the second set, you're up 4-2 with breakpoints to go 5-2.

SERENA WILLIAMS: Was I?

Q. Yes. Into the tiebreak, she won the last five points of the tiebreak.

SERENA WILLIAMS: Did she?

Q. Were you disappointed about not closing that set out?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Honestly, that was a year ago. If I'm still disappointed about that, then something's dreadfully wrong.

Q. What is your definition of a hypochondriac?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Someone that is always -- that is prone to get sick, prone to get hurt and injured, more prone than the next individual. That's me. That's Serena Williams. Under hypochondriac, they should put "Serena Williams."

Q. Do you think Venus can go on and win it now?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I definitely think so. She's playing great tennis. She's playing excellent. And Venus has a game and the mind and the physique, and she's really prepared because we both were working really hard after the French. So I know what we did. For sure.

Experimentee
Apr 23rd, 2003, 02:59 PM
I dont see how criticising yourself suddenly becomes 'slamming other players'. Serenas always been a perfectionist, she says she plays bad whether she wins or loses. Its got nothing to do with the opponent.

leslie
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:06 PM
I don't know why I even bother, but... Yes the eye surgery was an excuse/explanation of her low play, however she showed class and respect by praising MW's play as well after that match. THAT IS THE POINT EVERYONE IS TRYING TO MAKE HERE... SERENA CAN SAY SHE WAS SICK, INJURED, WHATEVER... BUT SHOW SOME RESPECT TO YOUR PEERS AND COMPLIMENT THEM ON THEIR PLAY. THEY WERE ON THE COURT AS WELL. AND, ALSO DON'T HAVE AN EXCUSE EVERY TIME YOU LOSE.. IT JUST REEKS OF SORE LOSER, ARROGANCE, AND BAD FORM.

You have never heard Serena compliment her opponents? I have heard her many times, but I guess you only hear what you want to hear. That's typical of people like you.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:06 PM
I think a lot of you are failing to realize something..these interviews are done 45-90 minutes after a loss. In the case of Serena Williams, who is a fanatically competitive person, she will be FUMING about a loss sixty minutes afterwards. When you're pissed about a loss, your first response is not to credit your opponent, but say "I played like crap," "She played OK, but that wasn't me out there." Maybe she'll wake up the next morning and realize that Kim or Jennifer or Justine or whoever played a very good match against her to win. Unfortunately, nobody is holding a microphone to her face the next morning. Lots of people don't want to be spoken to for about an hour after a loss, from Serena right down to the club level. Unfortunately, she dosen't have a choice in the matter unless she wants a big ass fine. For people like Venus or Monica that don't dwell on losses and move on, it's a lot easier for them to say they were outclassed right after a loss than it is for Serena. It's just how they are and does not mean they are bad losers.

gentenaire
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:07 PM
hey, where did that post go? I was about to reply to it. Yes, hypochondriacs truly believe they are sick, that's the whole point. The moment you say you're a hypochondriac is the moment you know that you're not really ill!


Q. What is your definition of a hypochondriac?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Someone that is always -- that is prone to get sick, prone to get hurt and injured, more prone than the next individual. That's me.

Anyway, this says it's all. It's clear Serena has a different definition of a hypochondriac than the real one.

gentenaire
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:12 PM
I dont see how criticising yourself suddenly becomes 'slamming other players'. Serenas always been a perfectionist, she says she plays bad whether she wins or loses. Its got nothing to do with the opponent.

I believe that really is the reason, that Serena means no harm with her comments, but it's also the reason why a lot of people think she's arrogant. I must confess I have problems with these kind of comments as well, it's why I've never liked Jelena Dokic.

CapFan#1
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:14 PM
I think a lot of you are failing to realize something..these interviews are done 45-90 minutes after a loss. In the case of Serena Williams, who is a fanatically competitive person, she will be FUMING about a loss sixty minutes afterwards. When you're pissed about a loss, your first response is not to credit your opponent, but say "I played like crap," "She played OK, but that wasn't me out there." Maybe she'll wake up the next morning and realize that Kim or Jennifer or Justine or whoever played a very good match against her to win. Unfortunately, nobody is holding a microphone to her face the next morning. Lots of people don't want to be spoken to for about an hour after a loss, from Serena right down to the club level. Unfortunately, she dosen't have a choice in the matter unless she wants a big ass fine. For people like Venus or Monica that don't dwell on losses and move on, it's a lot easier for them to say they were outclassed right after a loss than it is for Serena. It's just how they are and does not mean they are bad losers.


FAIR POINT, THE IMMEDIATE POST MATCH INTERVIEW IS A HORRIBLE RITUAL. I'D LIKE TO SEE IT BE DONE THE NEXT DAY OR EVEN 2-3 HOURS AFTER THE MATCH. I DO THINK, THOUGH, A MORE MATURE PERSON WOULD REALIZE THEY SHOULD COMPLIMENT THEIR OPPONENT, EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T FEEL THAT WAY AT THAT MOMENT

eshell
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:16 PM
Thanks for posting that old match transcript.

Two things stood out for me:

1) Serena did praise Cappy for raising the level of her game AND
2) Serena did use the wrong definition for hypochondriac.

Oh well, She's human (as are all the WTA players).


Who knew this thread would become so lively?!?

Doloresc, you rule!

:hearts:

PhoenixStorm
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:27 PM
i know that serena has defeated justine before. justine has been defeated by serena many times before and that's why i figure it doesn't need to be brought up. my point is that serena is being extremely arrogant by saying she lost to justine only because she was 9000 notches down but when they were both at their best justine defeated her and at the next competition, they played 2 close sets. i mean i would be very arrogant if i told someone that has defeated me before when we were playing great tennis that the next time they beat me is only because i was malfunctioning at an abyssmal level.

and yes serena is very capable on clay. i never disregarded that. but if justine beat her when both are their best and they play 2 close sets the next time they met with still very great tennis and she would disregard her win at fcc as void because she was down, she's being beyond honest and confident. she's being very arrogant and cocky.


You are so full of it. When Serena lost to justine in berlin did she say anything like she said in Charleston? No because she wasn't playing like that then. She played better in berlin and still lost and didn't say anything about her play. But when she plays like crap and loses she's supposed to stay silent? Whatever. Take your bitterness elsewhere please. Cyb its no use arguing with posters like this. They only see what they want to see and ignore everything that contradicts their point. Serena will say if she is playing bad whether she wins or loses thats Serena. If you'd rather your players lie then that says a lot about you.

PhoenixStorm
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:32 PM
I have extended that same understanding to Serena. My point is Becool needs to get the facts straight. Becool said the Jen blamed her loss to MW due to an "eye thing"...
1. it was not an "eye thing", it was eye surgery- big difference there
2. she really praised MW's play in that match, and complimented her on doing well
3. I have no problem if a player is slightly injured or ill and affects their play and they bring it up in a post match interview. However, they should also show eneogh class to compliment the other player's play.
4. Isn't it peculiar that EVERY time Serena losses, she has some excuse, unlike say when Jen loss to Davenport last week, she had no excuses, just PRAISE for Davey's awesome play.

AND THAT IS MY POINT :)


serena does not always have an excuse. when she lost to justine in berlin where were the excuses? :rolleyes: and thats just one instance

BK4ever
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:40 PM
Nothing like a Williams conversation to bring out the best in people...LOL

You love em, you hate em, ...you just can't stop talking about em...

Thats was some entertaining reading...I just love to see how the Williams haters churn out the defense of their hate and jealousy...

sartrista7
Apr 23rd, 2003, 03:58 PM
lol, these threads are so entertaining. One thing I fail to see is why this matters to anyone; I wouldn't want all the players to be gracious losers, or always complimentary to the opponents, or people who never swear. That way, you get a boring tour. That way, you get Kim Clijsters *shudder*

I mean... I think Serena is brash and a little vulgar, and definitely prone to finding excuses when she loses. And the English language is certainly not one of her fortes. But really, I couldn't care less what she's like. None of this matters, that's just who she is; it doesn't appeal to me, but it appeals to someone else and makes for a diverse cast of characters on the WTA. I don't have to support her if I don't want to. Same with Jen - if you think she's a dirty classless bitch, fair enough, but for the love of god learn to live with it. It doesn't reflect very well on you if a tennis player annoys you that much.

Next time you find yourself pissed off with Serena for 'arrogance', or Jen for swearing, just think: if they weren't like this, we'd have a tour full of Kim Clijsters clones and no one would watch tennis because they'd all be so dull, so you wouldn't get to see it on TV :devil:

CapFan#1
Apr 23rd, 2003, 04:00 PM
lol, these threads are so entertaining. One thing I fail to see is why this matters to anyone; I wouldn't want all the players to be gracious losers, or always complimentary to the opponents, or people who never swear. That way, you get a boring tour. That way, you get Kim Clijsters *shudder*

I mean... I think Serena is brash and a little vulgar, and definitely prone to finding excuses when she loses. And the English language is certainly not one of her fortes. But really, I couldn't care less what she's like. None of this matters, that's just who she is; it doesn't appeal to me, but it appeals to someone else and makes for a diverse cast of characters on the WTA. I don't have to support her if I don't want to. Same with Jen - if you think she's a dirty classless bitch, fair enough, but for the love of god learn to live with it. It doesn't reflect very well on you if a tennis player annoys you that much.

Next time you find yourself pissed off with Serena for 'arrogance', or Jen for swearing, just think: if they weren't like this, we'd have a tour full of Kim Clijsters clones and no one would watch tennis because they'd all be so dull, so you wouldn't get to see it on TV :devil:

GREAT POST :devil:

PhoenixStorm
Apr 23rd, 2003, 04:08 PM
lol, these threads are so entertaining. One thing I fail to see is why this matters to anyone; I wouldn't want all the players to be gracious losers, or always complimentary to the opponents, or people who never swear. That way, you get a boring tour. That way, you get Kim Clijsters *shudder*

I mean... I think Serena is brash and a little vulgar, and definitely prone to finding excuses when she loses. And the English language is certainly not one of her fortes. But really, I couldn't care less what she's like. None of this matters, that's just who she is; it doesn't appeal to me, but it appeals to someone else and makes for a diverse cast of characters on the WTA. I don't have to support her if I don't want to. Same with Jen - if you think she's a dirty classless bitch, fair enough, but for the love of god learn to live with it. It doesn't reflect very well on you if a tennis player annoys you that much.

Next time you find yourself pissed off with Serena for 'arrogance', or Jen for swearing, just think: if they weren't like this, we'd have a tour full of Kim Clijsters clones and no one would watch tennis because they'd all be so dull, so you wouldn't get to see it on TV :devil:

:worship: Marvelous Simply Marvelous! :worship:

sartrista7
Apr 23rd, 2003, 04:23 PM
Lol. Hypochondriacs don't know they're hypochondriacs. That's the whole point. Hypochondriacs think they're always ill when they're not.

MarcusRock
Apr 23rd, 2003, 04:42 PM
Can Super Dani save this thread? Of course she can!


http://www.angelfire.com/rock3/marcusrock/SuperDani.gif


She fights for truth, justice and the Slovakian way in every thread she graces. Fly, my pretty, fly.

gentenaire
Apr 23rd, 2003, 04:45 PM
pff, Sartrista, you're just jealous of Kim ;) ;)

MarcusRock
Apr 23rd, 2003, 04:49 PM
P.S. - LOL @ everyone bursting multiple veins in their foreheads discussing behaviors that players themselves don't give a crap about nor will change in the very near future.

PhoenixStorm
Apr 23rd, 2003, 04:51 PM
Um what exactly is the slovakian way? Do we all have to convert to orthordoxy and eat borsch?

MarcusRock
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:01 PM
Um what exactly is the slovakian way? Do we all have to convert to orthordoxy and eat borsch?PhoenixStorm, don't make Super Dani angry. You wouldn't like Super Dani when she's angry. ;)

MarcusRock
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:14 PM
what- she doesn't eat when she's angry....Thing is, she does eat when angry but it's not what goes in as much as what comes out. Dani dispenses what she calls "justice gas" to keep troublemakers like PhoenixStorm under control. She makes Saddam's mustard gas smell like a post-morning dew rosebush by comparison. Dani can be silent, but deadly. Fear her.

Serendy Willick
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:14 PM
Here is Serenas interview. Maybe John Worthless and the rest of the complainers should read them more often :rolleyes:
A POST-MATCH interview with:





SERENA WILLIAMS

SERENA WILLIAMS vs.

JUSTINE HENIN-HARDENNE (w)



6-3, 6-4





Q. Talk about your streak being over.

SERENA WILLIAMS: I wasn't as involved as you guys were, so you guys will have to answer that.

Q. For the last three days you faced the No. 6, the No. 5 and the No. 4 tennis players in the world. That's gotta be mentally draining to play at that level compared to what ‑‑ Justine didn't have that kind of road coming in. Can you talk a little bit about that maintaining that effort?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I don't think it was hard. I can play the best in the world. It doesn't matter to me because eventually you're going to have to face up to them, so for me it doesn't matter who I play. I don't think it was mentally draining at all.

Q. Is it one of those days where you just kind of go out, you maybe don't feel your best?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah. I just didn't play well. I made way too many errors every time I tried to hit a ball. My forehand, which is my stronger side, I missed. It was a little discouraging, but it's all right.

Q. You didn't get the net courts going your way either.

SERENA WILLIAMS: No. I didn't get any ‑‑ my strokes were ‑‑ today was just an off day, and you can't be on your off day against a top player, maybe against a lower ranked, maybe I would have had a chance, but even then it would have been tough.

Q. Was that part of her taking you out of your game at all?

SERENA WILLIAMS: No. I've practiced that. Actually I like when people hit high balls and things of that nature. I just kept missing.

Q. It looked like she was really mixing it up a lot, a lot of slice and top spins and things. Did that frustrate you at all?

SERENA WILLIAMS: No. I actually like when people hit high balls and stuff. You know, I actually practice that, so it's okay.

Q. You said before, I think it was maybe at the year‑end championships, after the Clijsters lost, the way you were happy because you were going to go into the Australian maybe a little more motivated.

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah. And sometimes you need to lose. Like I'm so motivated now. I can just feel it coming on again. So you gotta watch out.

Q. Compare that feeling with what you talked about. You said you wanted to go undefeated, how you lost ‑‑

SERENA WILLIAMS: Like I said, you know, I set my goals for the sky. That doesn't necessarily mean I get them. It's okay because it's hard to do that, but like I said, I think you guys dwelled on it more than I did.

Q. A couple times you guys were banging away at each other from the back line. And in the past over the course of the week most people would break down after a while, but she just kept hanging in there, and then you went for a couple shots as opposed to just continuing to wear her down. Can you talk a little bit about her play?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, she played really excellent today. She had a good plan going out there, and you know, she was prepared and she was ready, and it all worked. So it all worked for her, and she was on today, and she was really fighting, and you know, she did a great job.

Q. Serena, did she have a better chance against you on this surface than she might have if it had been a faster surface?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, certainly I prefer red clay over green clay, so once I get on the red clay ‑‑ I don't know. I love the French clay, and I just love it. So I can't say that ‑‑ I mean maybe she would stand a better chance on a clay court, but I love the clay.

Q. What is the difference between the two clays?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I don't know. I would imagine the red is slower, but I don't know why I like it more.

Q. You didn't have many 115 mile‑an‑hour serves today as you had against Lindsay and previously.

SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah. I mean my whole game was like 9,000 notches down, so it's just ‑‑ you know, I can't be on my top level every day, and today's just one of those days I just didn't play well. I didn't serve well, I didn't return well. I didn't hit well. You know, it's just one of those days.

Q. You had a streak of 25 points that you lost 22 of them in the first set. Have you ever had a streak like that before?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I don't keep up with stats. I'm sorry.

Q. What did it feel like out there?

SERENA WILLIAMS: It was kind of hot.

Q. I realize that, but from a tennis standpoint. How did that ‑‑

SERENA WILLIAMS: You know, I didn't take notice of that at all.

Q. Did you go back to your notes at all during that portion of the match?

SERENA WILLIAMS: I'm sure I did, but you know, it's just ‑‑ it's like ‑‑ I want to say, "whatever," you know.

Q. Could you repeat that?

END OF INTERVIEW

eshell
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:27 PM
Q. A couple times you guys were banging away at each other from the back line. And in the past over the course of the week most people would break down after a while, but she just kept hanging in there, and then you went for a couple shots as opposed to just continuing to wear her down. Can you talk a little bit about her play?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, she played really excellent today. She had a good plan going out there, and you know, she was prepared and she was ready, and it all worked. So it all worked for her, and she was on today, and she was really fighting, and you know, she did a great job.

Thanks, Luci, for posting the match transcript. She was complimentary towards Justine.

I will go now to remove my 'foot from my mouth'. (LOL)

:wavey:

Chance
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:30 PM
thanks Luci, I went to the FCC website but I couldn't find it.

Halardfan
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:36 PM
I do think sometimes we set the players too high standards to live up to, that nobody really could meet...I think, to a greater or lesser extent we are all guilty of it. The media pick a line out of a press conference and we all fight over it.

I don't think there's that much behind the story really, just as I don't think there's been much behind a lot of the negative stories on Jennifer Capriati or whoever.

Let's cut all the girls of the WTA a little slack, give them the benefit of the doubt sometimes. Well, maybe not ALL of them. ;)

o0O0o
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:51 PM
It's funny that people say "oh, she's just brash" as though that makes everything OK. Tell me, my friendly posters, how much you love it when you meet someone who is being brash. Be it a coworker, a friend, a boss, or a stranger, the word brash is usually a kinder substitute for "bitch". And in Serena's case, the rule applies.

harloo
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:56 PM
It's funny that people say "oh, she's just brash" as though that makes everything OK. Tell me, my friendly posters, how much you love it when you meet someone who is being brash. Be it a coworker, a friend, a boss, or a stranger, the word brash is usually a kinder substitute for "bitch". And in Serena's case, the rule applies.

5 O's I guess you should know a "bitch" when you see one, you have supported Martina all these years. :rolleyes: LOL

harloo
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:57 PM
Thanks for the interview transcript, proves the haters wrong again. :rolleyes:

o0O0o
Apr 23rd, 2003, 05:59 PM
Of course, on the topic, I can't find one single match loss where Hingis was anything less than flattering towards her opponent.

harloo
Apr 23rd, 2003, 06:01 PM
Of course, on the topic, I can't find one single match loss where Hingis was anything less than flattering towards her opponent.
LOL, are you serious? :rolleyes: Hingis was the Queen of Bitchdom especially when it came to those pesky Williams. LOL

griffin
Apr 23rd, 2003, 06:06 PM
So if you're sweet and nice after losses (big IF), it's ok to be a cow the rest of the time?

Wait, that's not fair to cows....

gentenaire
Apr 23rd, 2003, 06:11 PM
mooo

Midnite Surfer
Apr 23rd, 2003, 06:15 PM
Its funny that this thread is still going. I love the fact that even people who dislike the Williams sisters, spend all day in a thread discussing them. That's when you know you're a cultural icon. Right?

Midnite Surfer
Apr 23rd, 2003, 06:22 PM
Also both sisters do praise their opponents so this is a bullshit topic. They praise them after and before matches. How many times have you seen the pre-match interviews where Serena or Venus will say "So and so is a great player, I'm just going to play my game blah blah blah"?

Also, the fact that you guys want to hear them praise your favorite is hilarious. Its like they are tennis gods and you need to hear them bless your opponent or something. "Oh my God!! Serena said my fav is a good player. Golly gee!! Now I can die a happy girl!"

Infiniti2001
Apr 23rd, 2003, 06:23 PM
I'm not too crazy about Serena, but some folk here have serious problems... :eek: I bet you ˝ of them did not read the bloody interview in full -- while she did indeed say she was playing less than par, she praised justine highly.She also refused to take the bait when a questioner tried to say she had a harder schedule than Justine--- totally deflected it just like Venus always does.

"Some" folk need to look before they leap in the future . UGH

Midnite Surfer
Apr 23rd, 2003, 06:27 PM
I'm not too crazy about Serena, but some folk here have serious problems... :eek: I bet you ˝ of them did not read the bloody interview in full -- while she did indeed say she was playing less than par, she praised justine highly.She also refused to take the bait when a questioner tried to say she had a harder schedule than Justine--- totally deflected it just like Venus always does.

"Some" folk need to look before they leap in the future . UGH

Hey infiniti, do you have a link to the interview? I would like to hear why everyone's panties are in a knot.

jenny161185
Apr 23rd, 2003, 06:31 PM
Im not a serena fan either and I can see she gave Justine credit BUT I can also see why people think she didnt as in the next question she gones on to say how she couldnt hit anything today or serve well I think this is what is annoying people

Serendy Willick
Apr 23rd, 2003, 06:32 PM
Hey infiniti, do you have a link to the interview? I would like to hear why everyone's panties are in a knot.

Look on Post number 125. :wavey:

Serendy Willick
Apr 23rd, 2003, 06:38 PM
Im not a serena fan either and I can see she gave Justine credit BUT I can also see why people think she didnt as in the next question she gones on to say how she couldnt hit anything today or serve well I think this is what is annoying people


My point is please report the whole facts and not just some half azzed made up quotes from a bunch of reporters that wanna start some crap. According to some people here, Serena never credits or praises opponents, which is utter boloocks. You know its funny that the people that complain the most gets there information from these half azzed quotes by people in the newspaper and never bother to read the interviews. The same horsecrap was said about the loss to Clisjsters at the championsips

Jakeev
Apr 23rd, 2003, 06:38 PM
I cannot believe this is still being talked about. Go back to post #25 and read what Midnight Surfer had to say.........it nailed it right on the head........and then somebody close this thread.

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 23rd, 2003, 07:34 PM
It's funny that people say "oh, she's just brash" as though that makes everything OK. Tell me, my friendly posters, how much you love it when you meet someone who is being brash. Be it a coworker, a friend, a boss, or a stranger, the word brash is usually a kinder substitute for "bitch". And in Serena's case, the rule applies.
well we know it applies to miss anna "oh i would never play with her because she's beneath me" kornikova

And we know it applies to the queen bitch herself martina with her "oh theres no rivalry, I always win" comment.

So please with your favorites try not to throw stones...kay?

shap_half
Apr 23rd, 2003, 10:37 PM
well we know it applies to miss anna "oh i would never play with her because she's beneath me" kornikova

And we know it applies to the queen bitch herself martina with her "oh theres no rivalry, I always win" comment.

So please with your favorites try not to throw stones...kay?


proof that other people are "bitches" should not be justification for other people's actions.

eshell
Apr 23rd, 2003, 10:40 PM
The conversation here goes from very civil to uncivil and back.

I'm always amazed to read the progression of these threads.

Anyway, enough of this already...next topic? :confused:

Midnite Surfer
Apr 23rd, 2003, 10:43 PM
proof that other people are "bitches" should not be justification for other people's actions.

What actions? The person who started this thread already retracted their statements after it was proven that Serena did compliment her opponent. What more do you want?

Let's move on to the next item on your agenda. :rolleyes:

shap_half
Apr 24th, 2003, 12:38 AM
What actions? The person who started this thread already retracted their statements after it was proven that Serena did compliment her opponent. What more do you want?

Let's move on to the next item on your agenda. :rolleyes:


i was talking in general that to bring up evidence of others errors does not justify the error of someone else. perhaps before you jump the fun and roll your eyes try to comprehend the actual post. that is all i ask.

Midnite Surfer
Apr 24th, 2003, 02:23 AM
i was talking in general that to bring up evidence of others errors does not justify the error of someone else. perhaps before you jump the fun and roll your eyes try to comprehend the actual post. that is all i ask.

I did read the post and Cybelle's point was to not criticize Serena when the players you support exhibit the very characteristics that you are criticizing Serena for. I think you need to not only read the post but comprehend the content. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

shap_half
Apr 24th, 2003, 02:36 AM
I did read the post and Cybelle's point was to not criticize Serena when the players you support exhibit the very characteristics that you are criticizing Serena for. I think you need to not only read the post but comprehend the content. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

say what? first of all, it was not my post. i was not supporting anyone. i just wanted to point out that it isn't a valid arguement to present the flaws of others when the subject is serena. we're talking about serena here what's the point of bringing up hingis or anna? just because they do it doesn't mean we can't criticize serena for doing it. the thread is about serena isn't it.

Midnite Surfer
Apr 24th, 2003, 02:55 AM
say what? first of all, it was not my post. i was not supporting anyone. i just wanted to point out that it isn't a valid arguement to present the flaws of others when the subject is serena. we're talking about serena here what's the point of bringing up hingis or anna? just because they do it doesn't mean we can't criticize serena for doing it. the thread is about serena isn't it.

Sure the thread is about Serena, but I hardly see the point in pointing out Serena'a supposed flaws when your own faves exhibit the same behavior. That is the point that Cybell was trying to make. His/Her post was not excusing Serena's behavior, it was noting 00000's bad form in using a double standard.

You said Cybelle was trying to excuse Serena. Did you not?