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Fingon
Apr 20th, 2003, 10:26 PM
From the French Open website

http://2002.rolandgarros.com/en/news/articles/2002052819344190605c6feed633cc80256bc700658cf9.htm l

Kapros shocks Henin
Matthew Cronin
Tuesday, May 28, 2002

In one of the most stunning results of the past decade, 179-ranked Aniko Kapros of Hungary shocked a physically ill 2001 Roland Garros semifinalist and No5 seed Justine Henin 4-6 6-1 6-0 in the first round on Tuesday.

"I feel awful, beyond frustration," said Henin, who believes she has either the flu or bronchitis. "I have great difficulty thinking that I lost in the first round of Roland Garros. I'm very disappointed. I wasn't able to fend for myself. I was expecting more, but this is not the end of my career."

Henin came into the event as one of the favorites after she won Berlin over Serena Williams a few weeks ago and then the next week, took out countrywoman Kim Clijsters before losing to Serena in the final of Rome. But on Tuesday, Henin was a shadow of herself, seemingly overwhelmed by fever and respiratory problems on a cold and rainy day, hitting short and down the middle and rarely getting much stick behind her balls.

While Henin produced 64 unforced errors and failed to change strategies or pace even when she was way down, the 18-year-old Kapros played a solid, steady contest and produced a number of deceptive winners.

Henin said she probably should have never taken to the court.

"It's mistake. I made my own decision, I wanted to fight for it," said Henin, who asked for treatment for an earache and breathing problems during the match, but had taken everything that tour rules allow before the contest began. "You always hope a miracle can happen. I even thought that during the match itself. But it does not always happen....I wanted to fight and I didn't retire because it's my personality."

The daughter of a former Olympic bronze medallist in gymnastics, the ebullient Kapros learned to play in the Bahamas and spent much of the match doing cartwheels past Henin.

"I had a great day and played one of the best matches I ever played," said Kapros, the 2000 junior Australian Open titlist. "I was focusing on the points I was playing at the moment."

Kapros spent much of her youth traveling the world while her parents performed in circuses, her father Attila jumping on a board to propel her mother (who shares the same name as her) into the air. Her mother would then do a series of flips and twists until she landed in Attila's arms.

They stopped performing when they became pregnant with Aniko, but her mother, who still travels with her, has instructed her well in how to compete in an international athletic forum.

"Gymnastics is also mentally tough," Kapros said. "She tells me what she felt. But you cannot compare. In gymnastics, you do your stuff in three minutes. It just depends on you. But in tennis, it depends on you and there's somebody on the other side you have to beat. It's very different and can go on for two to three hours."

Fingon
Apr 20th, 2003, 10:27 PM
so, could you please stop counting that "loss"?

You look rather bitter with that.

Venus Forever
Apr 20th, 2003, 10:32 PM
It's the same thing as Kim defeating Venus at the Season Ending Champs when Venus was clearly injured from the get go. Of course it shouldn't count, but it does.

As for sickness, I think a player of Justine's caliber should know very well if she will be able to play. She thought she could, and she loss. There is no excuse. If she was feeling that bad, as she say she was, then she would have never gone out there in the first place.

It's a loss, and it's a bad one at it. It goes with the territory.

And you can't blame the sickness for everything. I mean, she did win the first set after all.

tennisIlove09
Apr 20th, 2003, 10:34 PM
It was so obvious watching the match that she was ill. I think she really starting feeling it later on in the first set. I think she was up 5-0 or 5-1, and then she ran out of gas.

It's sad...but it's a year ago.

PhoenixStorm
Apr 20th, 2003, 10:42 PM
stop counting it as a loss? Excuse me but why should Kapros give that win up? She deserved that win because she fought for it. Justine should have never taken the court just like venus in the champs. Once you take the court deal with the consequences. Its a loss. Face it. I'm sure justine has already.

starr
Apr 20th, 2003, 10:58 PM
I think the request was to stop counting it as a shocking unexpected upset by a lowly ranked player as Volcana does as part of his/her analysis of Justine's "failure" to achieve a top ranking.

Of course it is a loss just as Venus "lost" in Los Angeles. I think few on this board however talk much about Clijsters beating Venus and Serena back to back like it keeps being repeated.

Even if Justine had chosen not to play at the last minute it wouldn't have made any difference to her ranking.

Kart
Apr 20th, 2003, 11:36 PM
Justine won the first set. If she had won the second as well, would we be counting this as a win ?

*JR*
Apr 21st, 2003, 12:02 AM
Serena started '02 on a rather sour note. Early @ Sydney (2nd round?) she sprained an ankle and lost to Meghann by w/o. I don't recall her bitching about it, even though it meant missing the AO (and thus the chance for the "SSS" in '02). All she did was win the other 3 Slams (albeit with 1 loss each to Peppermint Patty, Juju, and Chanda mixed in), effectively call it a year after the USO way ahead of the field, then take one more loss in LA when clearly not "match tough". Juju also has the class to accept a "loss due to circumstance". (Are they supposed to lie about being ill or injured so as not to look like sore losers)? :confused:

Fingon
Apr 21st, 2003, 12:04 AM
stop counting it as a loss? Excuse me but why should Kapros give that win up? She deserved that win because she fought for it. Justine should have never taken the court just like venus in the champs. Once you take the court deal with the consequences. Its a loss. Face it. I'm sure justine has already.

Nobody is asking Kapros to give it up, she got her points (interesting when they come off), she got her head-to-head, but in terms of analysis, it's irrelevant.

Justine should have never taken the court? true, but that's irrelevant. Justine would have never lost to Kapros if she was healthy and that's a fact.

Fingon
Apr 21st, 2003, 12:06 AM
Justine won the first set. If she had won the second as well, would we be counting this as a win ?


and the point being?, if Justine has won it would have been a great win considering she was ill :rolleyes:

Not because you don't count the loss you wouldn't count the win, this is not 2 + 2, obviously for a player like Kapros that had done nothing before, and has done nothing after, a win over a top player will come like this. This is not about points or statistics, it's about the value of a win/loss.

And if Justine was healthy, a win over Kapros would have counted, but wouldn't have meant much.

Venus Forever
Apr 21st, 2003, 01:21 AM
Justine should have never taken the court? true, but that's irrelevant. Justine would have never lost to Kapros if she was healthy and that's a fact.


Justine should not have taken the court is relevant. Since she shouldn't have taken the court, she wouldn't have lost, and this loss would not be on her record.

As for Justine definitely beating Kapros, nothing is a sure thing. I would have bet 200 to 1 that Venus was going to beat Schett in 2001, or beat Schwartz in 1999. I would have never thought of her losing. Or even to Dementieva, a new comer to the tour, in 1999.

Nothing is guaranteed, and for you to say Justine would have won is foolish, anyone should know that.

The fact is she lost, and it counts on her record. People won't look back and say "oh, well, she was sick, so that doesn't count." If she was that sick, she would have never went out there, if she was that sick, she would have never won a set. She went out there thinking she was healthy enough to compete, and a loss will be her own fault.

It's just like Venus. She should have never went out there against Kim, but she did. And now she has to face that she has another loss against Kim. That's just part of the game.

Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda, but DIDN'T, PERIOD.

She lost, so, accept it.

Fingon
Apr 21st, 2003, 01:36 AM
Justine should not have taken the court is relevant. Since she shouldn't have taken the court, she wouldn't have lost, and this loss would not be on her record.


:rolleyes:

ok, let's try again, it's irrelevant for this purpose, did I say record? did I say head-tohead? did I say rankings points? those are irrelevant for my point which is how valuable is this win, in terms of what it MEANS, not in terms of record, I couldn't care less about that.

Let's try to put it simple, I am trying to see this loss from the point of view of what it means. Justine losing to Kapros, does it mean that Kapros is better? does it mean that Justine bad? No, the records are completely irrelevant here and I never said it doesn't count in the records :p


As for Justine definitely beating Kapros, nothing is a sure thing. I would have bet 200 to 1 that Venus was going to beat Schett in 2001, or beat Schwartz in 1999. I would have never thought of her losing. Or even to Dementieva, a new comer to the tour, in 1999.

do you really compare Schett to Kapros? are you serious? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

what has Kapros won, ever? zero, nothing, where is she now? :rolleyes:


Nothing is guaranteed, and for you to say Justine would have won is foolish, anyone should know that.


really? to say that a healthy Justine would beat a player that without the points she got from beating Justine would be outside the top 300?

that has never won a title, not even come close, that serves 50 mph?
of course, Justine could have broken her leg but that's not the point, I said if Justine was healthy.

to put it in perspective, if I wasn't 300% sure not only that Justine wouldn't lose to Kapros, but that Kapros wouldn't take more than 4 game I would stop supporting Justine because her game would simply be trash.

The fact is she lost, and it counts on her record. People won't look back and say "oh, well, she was sick, so that doesn't count." If she was that sick, she would have never went out there, if she was that sick, she would have never won a set. She went out there thinking she was healthy enough to compete, and a loss will be her own fault.


again, who the f.ck is talking about records?, I am talking from a technical point of view, do I care what people will say?, I know what a loss means in terms of what it means to judge the players' game and this loss means nothing, no matter what the fucking records say :rolleyes:


It's just like Venus. She should have never went out there against Kim, but she did. And now she has to face that she has another loss against Kim. That's just part of the game.

Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda, but DIDN'T, PERIOD.

She lost, so, accept it.

are you really serious?, not in a billion years I will accept that Kapros won because she deserved it, because Justine loses to low ranked players. the could, should, would are pretty straight forward, anyone that knows even a little about tennis knows that unless Justine is injured, ill or something similar Kapros has no chance of beating her.

The Venus comparisson is fool, Kim can beat Venus even though that particular win is tainted, you are not comparing Kapros with Kim are you?

to put it clear, if Justine had been healthy and still lost to Kapros, she wouldn't have won any tournament, ever, she would be ranked outside the top 100 with no hopes to reach the top.

Do people actually read? :rolleyes:

shap_half
Apr 21st, 2003, 01:53 AM
I agree with Fingon. I think the point being made here is the value of the win. I think that Justine made a half-assed decision to play and the match is now over and it is part of her record. But the point here is that people in another thread is trying to bring across why Justine isn't rank any higher than fourth is that because she loses to non elite players like Kapros. And this "loss" should not even be a factor to why she is 4th because she really couldn't do much with her body. It's like there is a bout a 99% chance Justine would beat kapros on a healthy day so for someone to say that justine needs to stop being defeated by a non elite or else she would suffer to stay at 4th and bring the kapros match as evidence is foolish. i mean to say a very ill person should not lose to non elite just because she is top 5 during the match is just wrong. and to use this match as evidence as to why justine isn't any better than 4th is even worse. this match doesn't prove anything.

i think this is fingon's point.

Crazy Canuck
Apr 21st, 2003, 01:56 AM
Apparently Fingon either isn't making this obvious enough, or some of you just haven't read Volcana's many thoughts on Justine, which always seem to include this loss as a factor into whether or not she is "elite" or just the "rest of the best". Fingon is pointing out that allowing this loss to outweight all the titles, good results, and wins, is ridiculous.

We'll continue to hear questions about Justine until she finally wins a slam, though, and that's just how it will be.

Crazy Canuck
Apr 21st, 2003, 01:58 AM
You are claiming that Justine's "loss" as you quote it, is not a loss because she was sick.

*yawn*

Read my last post, maybe that will help ;)

Car Key Boi
Apr 21st, 2003, 01:58 AM
Vocana, READ THIS

get a job and do something with yuor life instead of living on welfare and spending all yuor time 24/7 posting shit about tennis players

holy cow! can't yuo see it? yuo're pissing yuor life away

that is all

- Car Key Boi

Venus Forever
Apr 21st, 2003, 02:01 AM
I understand all the points, I just...

Ah, forget it. :rolleyes::p

All I'm saying is that everything is subjective and not conclusive. Justine beaing healthy may have had no affect on the outcome, and the way Volcana see's it is how it will be seen in the history books. No one will remember that Justine was sick, they will remember she lost though.

SJW
Apr 21st, 2003, 02:04 AM
you play, you pay

JHH was clearly not in a position to go on court, but she did, and she finished the match. on one hand, you got a great effort on her part, but on the other WTF was she thinking? i know shes a fighter and all but that was a dumb decision. you got breathing problems you dont play sport.

now if this should be discounted as a loss, then we will have to do the same thing to EVERY player who lost a match while injured, and thats EVERY player.

Kapros def Henin is the only thing that matters in the end and will go into the record books...

Venus Forever
Apr 21st, 2003, 02:06 AM
Kapros def Henin is the only thing that matters in the end and will go into the record books...


That basically what I was trying to say in all that mumble jumble. :o :p :rolleyes:

I need to learn how to write a lot less. :o

cynicole
Apr 21st, 2003, 02:09 AM
We'll continue to hear questions about Justine until she finally wins a slam, though, and that's just how it will be.

I bet even if she wins a slam we will still hear these same questions.

Really, the more she gets trashed by armchair critics, the more I like her.

(BTW, I SAW the Irvin match...and Marissa would've given any other top player a run for their money that day as well.)

cynicole
Apr 21st, 2003, 02:11 AM
now if this should be discounted as a loss, then we will have to do the same thing to EVERY player who lost a match while injured, and thats EVERY player.

Kapros def Henin is the only thing that matters in the end and will go into the record books...

ARGH........I guess half the people in this thread can't read!!! :mad:

shap_half
Apr 21st, 2003, 02:11 AM
you play, you pay

Kapros def Henin is the only thing that matters in the end and will go into the record books...

But this was not the point of the thread. It's not to say Justine's loss should be discounted. It's that this loss should not be an overwhelming factor to Justine's "eliteness". Volcana seems to point this match out almost everytime Justine's "eliteness" is brought up. And Fingon wants to point out that Justine's "eliteness" or in Volcana's case not so eliteness using this match is irrelevant.

Kart
Apr 21st, 2003, 02:12 AM
and the point being?, if Justine has won it would have been a great win considering she was ill :rolleyes:

Not because you don't count the loss you wouldn't count the win, this is not 2 + 2, obviously for a player like Kapros that had done nothing before, and has done nothing after, a win over a top player will come like this. This is not about points or statistics, it's about the value of a win/loss.

And if Justine was healthy, a win over Kapros would have counted, but wouldn't have meant much.

The point being, Fingon, that she wasn't that ill that she couldn't play a good first set and win it. Whilst I don't agree that a loss to Kapros means that Justine's no good (which is presumably your point) she obviously wasn't at death's door else she'd have been off in two sets. Do you disagree ?

Oh and I'd advise you not to roll your eyes too much or else you'll get a headache if you haven't got one already.

Venus Forever
Apr 21st, 2003, 02:14 AM
Well, I think it is a case for Justine's "eliteness" as if she is so great, and Aniko is that bad, Justine should have won that match still, in straight sets.

Venus played Kristina Brandi at the Aussie Open that year, barely moving, but was still able to win.

Champions figure out ways to win when they are not at their best physically, and Justine should have found a way.

shap_half
Apr 21st, 2003, 02:26 AM
Well, I think it is a case for Justine's "eliteness" as if she is so great, and Aniko is that bad, Justine should have won that match still, in straight sets.

Venus played Kristina Brandi at the Aussie Open that year, barely moving, but was still able to win.

Champions figure out ways to win when they are not at their best physically, and Justine should have found a way.

yes :rolleyes: because apart from trying to find a way to properly breathe she should have also found a way to beat kapros. and because of this we should not consider her an elite player.

SJW
Apr 21st, 2003, 02:30 AM
oh ok i didnt know that

all players have bad losses, just some have more than others :D

whether i (or anyone else) likes it or not, Justine is a solid member of the top 10 who can challenge for many things on her day (as my baby found out :()

eliteness??? couple of slams then we'll talk :)

VF...yea i know, i was backing you up :);)

~ The Leopard ~
Apr 21st, 2003, 02:38 AM
lmao. I don't recall Volcana has said in the past. Some of you guys must follow and remember every line of every post. :D

But, whether or not Fingon is right to criticise Volcana, he makes a valid point. This particular loss doesn't shed any light on how good or consistent a fully fit Justine is. That's all he's saying. Is it really so hard to understand?

selesfan
Apr 21st, 2003, 02:42 AM
It still counts as a loss just like Jen losing the Aussie Open first round to Justine due to her eyes not healing in time. If a player shows up to play and they lose it counts as a loss. :rolleyes:

~ The Leopard ~
Apr 21st, 2003, 02:45 AM
rofl@ selesfan

Sorry, but you've completely missed the point. Can't half of you think except in cliches? The concept Fingon has expressed is not *that* complex!

*joui shakes his head*

Fingon
Apr 21st, 2003, 03:22 AM
The point being, Fingon, that she wasn't that ill that she couldn't play a good first set and win it. Whilst I don't agree that a loss to Kapros means that Justine's no good (which is presumably your point) she obviously wasn't at death's door else she'd have been off in two sets. Do you disagree ?

Oh and I'd advise you not to roll your eyes too much or else you'll get a headache if you haven't got one already.

well, she was actually taking medication and couldn't even train for like two weeks after that match.

The fact that Justine did manage to win the first set says a lot about Kapros doesn't it?

what I don't get is the kind of relations people makes?. So I am saying she lost the match because she was sick, you said she wasn't as sick to lose the first set? :confused: what does it have to do with anything?, is it that for you there are two states? dead and alive? She was very sick, she won the first set, does it mean she wasn't sick?

:rolleyes:

I am sorry but I can't find a better answer to that.

Fingon
Apr 21st, 2003, 03:24 AM
It still counts as a loss just like Jen losing the Aussie Open first round to Justine due to her eyes not healing in time. If a player shows up to play and they lose it counts as a loss. :rolleyes:

well, I didn't know Jenn lost to Justine at the Australian Open :rolleyes:

second, well, the loss is in Jenn's record, but what kind of conclusion you can take from it? that Jenn shouldn't have played? right, but that's NOT the point.

Can you count that lose in order to make an assessment on Jenn's game? no, does it count for statistical purposes? yes

is it so difficult to understand? :confused:

cynicole
Apr 21st, 2003, 03:35 AM
is it so difficult to understand? :confused:

Yes, very difficult apparently.

harloo
Apr 21st, 2003, 03:42 AM
What is the point of this thread anyways? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

We all know a few things from the past:

Justine lost to kapros at the French
Venus lost to Clijsters at the champs

In both of these matches, certain circumstances prevented both players to compete at the highest leve. However it was their choice to compete, and so Kapros and Clijsters got the win fair and square. Now whether or not it's a VALID win or not can be debated back and forth. However, the matches are over and Justines early french exit was almost a year ago. Why bring it up for no reason at all? :rolleyes:

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 21st, 2003, 03:45 AM
Nobody is asking Kapros to give it up, she got her points (interesting when they come off), she got her head-to-head, but in terms of analysis, it's irrelevant.

Justine should have never taken the court? true, but that's irrelevant. Justine would have never lost to Kapros if she was healthy and that's a fact.

no its not a fact. And no its not irreveleant. Im sure kapros and her fans thought it was very relevant.

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 21st, 2003, 03:48 AM
well, she was actually taking medication and couldn't even train for like two weeks after that match.

The fact that Justine did manage to win the first set says a lot about Kapros doesn't it?

what I don't get is the kind of relations people makes?. So I am saying she lost the match because she was sick, you said she wasn't as sick to lose the first set? :confused: what does it have to do with anything?, is it that for you there are two states? dead and alive? She was very sick, she won the first set, does it mean she wasn't sick?

:rolleyes:

I am sorry but I can't find a better answer to that.

Great this sounds just like when serena lost to jen at wimbledon 2001 though I do wonder if you had the same attitude then....

brickhousesupporter
Apr 21st, 2003, 03:54 AM
A loss or two to a non elite tennis player does not mean you are not a great player or you are not going to be a great player. Justine had a bad loss on her favorite surface. That really has no basis on whether or not she will be a great player. However if these losses occur more frequently then it is time to worry.

brickhousesupporter
Apr 21st, 2003, 03:56 AM
for the sake of continuity this loss must be counted and there should not be any attempt to justify the loss.

Fingon
Apr 21st, 2003, 04:34 AM
Great this sounds just like when serena lost to jen at wimbledon 2001 though I do wonder if you had the same attitude then....


Does that lose count for Serena or Jenn's record? yes
do I use that lose to analyze Serena or Jenn's performance? no

Fingon
Apr 21st, 2003, 04:35 AM
for the sake of continuity this loss must be counted and there should not be any attempt to justify the loss.


:confused:

Fingon
Apr 21st, 2003, 04:39 AM
What is the point of this thread anyways? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

We all know a few things from the past:

Justine lost to kapros at the French
Venus lost to Clijsters at the champs

In both of these matches, certain circumstances prevented both players to compete at the highest leve. However it was their choice to compete, and so Kapros and Clijsters got the win fair and square. Now whether or not it's a VALID win or not can be debated back and forth. However, the matches are over and Justines early french exit was almost a year ago. Why bring it up for no reason at all? :rolleyes:

Because the respected Volcana keeps bringing it up over and over again. As I consider Volcana a person able to think I believe he has second intentions. He doesn't hesitate to lie or twist fact to prove his points and I am sick of him bringing this loss over and over all the time.

That's the whole purpose. Every time that Volcana talks bullshit, like saying that Justine is not a top player because she loses to players like Kapros people should remember why Justine lost to Kapros, it has nothing to do with records, it has to be with reasons.

And the usual cliches "a win is a win" "people will remember..." are just bullshit.

Maybe if people weren't so blinded with Volcana's crap they would understand a little better.

WtaTour4Ever
Apr 21st, 2003, 04:39 AM
Just so I understand, the loss to Kapros does count...no one is trying to take that away. However using that loss to base the reasoning of why Justine will Never be an Elite player is flawed b/c Justine was sick, as opposed to having a bad day or being streaky.

Am I getting this right...if so...makes sense to me.

Cybelle Darkholme
Apr 21st, 2003, 04:41 AM
Because the respected Volcana keeps bringing it up over and over again. As I consider Volcana a person able to think I believe he has second intentions. He doesn't hesitate to lie or twist fact to prove his points and I am sick of him bringing this loss over and over all the time.

That's the whole purpose. Every time that Volcana talks bullshit, like saying that Justine is not a top player because she loses to players like Kapros people should remember why Justine lost to Kapros, it has nothing to do with records, it has to be with reasons.

And the usual cliches "a win is a win" "people will remember..." are just bullshit.

Maybe if people weren't so blinded with Volcana's crap they would understand a little better.
Um how in the world can she not be a top player! Shes number four in the world!

Fingon
Apr 21st, 2003, 04:42 AM
Um how in the world can she not be a top player! Shes number four in the world!

ask Volcana

Fingon
Apr 21st, 2003, 04:43 AM
Just so I understand, the loss to Kapros does count...no one is trying to take that away. However using that loss to base the reasoning of why Justine will Never be an Elite player is flawed b/c Justine was sick, as opposed to having a bad day or being streaky.

Am I getting this right...if so...makes sense to me.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

allelouyah

:worship: :worship: :worship:

persond
Apr 21st, 2003, 05:23 AM
Because the respected Volcana keeps bringing it up over and over again. As I consider Volcana a person able to think I believe he has second intentions. He doesn't hesitate to lie or twist fact to prove his points and I am sick of him bringing this loss over and over all the time.

That's the whole purpose. Every time that Volcana talks bullshit, like saying that Justine is not a top player because she loses to players like Kapros people should remember why Justine lost to Kapros, it has nothing to do with records, it has to be with reasons.

And the usual cliches "a win is a win" "people will remember..." are just bullshit.

Maybe if people weren't so blinded with Volcana's crap they would understand a little better.


Just more shiaat that's "bandied" about and made to seem like "fact" when actually, it means absolutely "phucking" nothing!!! This is as "nigh" near nothing as I've ever read!!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Fingon
Apr 21st, 2003, 05:30 AM
Just more shiaat that's "bandied" about and made to seem like "fact" when actually, it means absolutely "phucking" nothing!!! This is as "nigh" near nothing as I've ever read!!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

in english please :rolleyes:

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 21st, 2003, 05:35 AM
lmao has volcana even read this LOL

Fingon
Apr 21st, 2003, 05:38 AM
lmao has volcana even read this LOL

you can bet your ass that he has :)

Dawn Marie
Apr 21st, 2003, 05:38 AM
Basically what persond said is this:

YOU CAN'T CONTROL WHAT HE(VOLCANA) FEELS ABOUT JUSTINE'S LOSS TO KAPROS. IF HE CHOOSES TO STATE IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN OH WELL AND DEAL WITH IT!

IF I KNEW THIS BUGGED THOSE WHO POSTED AGAINST IT, Hell I WOULD HAVE STATED IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

Well at least I know what will grate some of you..

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!;)

Rtael
Apr 21st, 2003, 05:41 AM
It's a shame I can't give you any more negative rep Dawn..

Sam L
Apr 21st, 2003, 05:42 AM
Because the respected Volcana keeps bringing it up over and over again. As I consider Volcana a person able to think I believe he has second intentions. He doesn't hesitate to lie or twist fact to prove his points and I am sick of him bringing this loss over and over all the time.

Fingon, how long have you been here? How long has Volcana been here? I thought you knew better. If you were a newbie, I can understand, but you're not.

Just let this go cause he probably ain't going to address this. And I mean really you should stop caring about his little games. I mean Justine won Charleston just last week, just be happy with that.

Fingon
Apr 21st, 2003, 05:42 AM
Basically what persond said is this:

YOU CAN'T CONTROL WHAT HE(VOLCANA) FEELS ABOUT JUSTINE'S LOSS TO KAPROS. IF HE CHOOSES TO STATE IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN OH WELL AND DEAL WITH IT!

IF I KNEW THIS BUGGED THOSE WHO POSTED AGAINST IT, Hell I WOULD HAVE STATED IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

Well at least I know what will grate some of you..

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!;)

thanks for the translation.

I wouldn't have guessed that meaning in a million years :)

Venus Forever
Apr 21st, 2003, 05:43 AM
It's a shame I can't give you any more negative rep Dawn..

Don't you dare bad rep Dawn.

I'll bad rep you. :mad:

LMAO!! :D :D

;)

WtaTour4Ever
Apr 21st, 2003, 05:45 AM
This is as "nigh" near nothing as I've ever read!!!!

And this says??

Rtael
Apr 21st, 2003, 05:45 AM
oh don't worry, I've already bad repped dawn a while ago, so I can't right now =P

Dawn Marie
Apr 21st, 2003, 05:46 AM
No Problem Ricardo:)

Rtael, no problem.. the positives far out weight the negatives.. lol

I like ALL REP POST because I get to hear your(posters) opinions, that is the fun part.

~ The Leopard ~
Apr 21st, 2003, 06:22 AM
*waiting for Volcana to turn up*

Rtael
Apr 21st, 2003, 06:32 AM
lol....I like getting any rep at all too...I get bored, and it gives me something to read... ';'

Crazy Canuck
Apr 21st, 2003, 07:07 AM
rofl@ selesfan

Sorry, but you've completely missed the point. Can't half of you think except in cliches? The concept Fingon has expressed is not *that* complex!

*joui shakes his head*
lol... I hope that this thread never ends :D

Crazy Canuck
Apr 21st, 2003, 07:09 AM
I wonder how many more times Fingon will have to explain himself to the thinking impaired before they start to understand him...?

How about we make a game of this? I say that it takes 6 more times. Any bets?

~ The Leopard ~
Apr 21st, 2003, 07:17 AM
But, Rebecca, a loss is a loss. No excuses. Kapros deserved her win. Justine shouldn't have played if she was so sick. ;)

(I say some of them will *never* understand the point.)

Jakeev
Apr 21st, 2003, 07:34 AM
Although I disagree with what you have to say about Volcana fingon, nice to see you back in the mix ;)

Darran
Apr 21st, 2003, 07:42 AM
I totally agree Fingon, there is alot to be said for someone who can take the time to create list after list and state things like Justine is not an elite player with losses against Kapros, when at the same time when it comes to clijsters beating serena.. it will be Clijsters beating a "tired" serena etc etc.

Crazy Canuck
Apr 21st, 2003, 07:49 AM
Although I disagree with what you have to say about Volcana fingon, nice to see you back in the mix ;)
You see folks? One can understand the point, but disagree. Thanks for demonstrating, Jakeev ;)

~ The Leopard ~
Apr 21st, 2003, 07:52 AM
lol, that's what so's funny about the thread. What Fingon is saying makes perfectly good sense, even if he's wrong about Volcana (on which I really have no opinion). But people are struggling to understand it all.

Sorry, I'm in a cruel mood today. :o

disposablehero
Apr 21st, 2003, 08:05 AM
Well apparently the Koukalova match where Monica hit the ground after a game and a half was also useful for the purpose of analysis.

Gandalf
Apr 21st, 2003, 09:00 AM
Fignon,

I agree with you that the match against Kapros does not give any indication about Justine's habilities, and so. But...

if you expect Volcana (or 95% of the people from the board) to come and say 'You were right and I was wrong', you could be waiting for a loooong time...

moby
Apr 21st, 2003, 11:44 AM
i'm starting to see a glimmer of hope
people are starting to understand! :worship:

Kart
Apr 21st, 2003, 02:21 PM
well, she was actually taking medication and couldn't even train for like two weeks after that match.


The point being what ? People get sick, they take medication and rest. They get better (usually).


The fact that Justine did manage to win the first set says a lot about Kapros doesn't it?

It says nothing about Kapros. I didn't see the match. All it tells me is that Justine won the first set. You can read into that that Kapros was playing a complete invalid and still couldn't win the first set which means that she's an appauling tennis player or you can read into it that Justine was playing well enough to win the first set and then not well enough to win the next two. I choose the latter. Maybe you've seen more of Kapros play and are an expert on her game ?

what I don't get is the kind of relations people makes?. So I am saying she lost the match because she was sick, you said she wasn't as sick to lose the first set? :confused: what does it have to do with anything?, is it that for you there are two states? dead and alive? She was very sick, she won the first set, does it mean she wasn't sick?


What I don't get is why you need to labour the point so much to make Justine such a victim ? We all know Justine probably didn't win because she was unwell. The fact that she won the first set shows she was obviously competing for a while. Hence she was not as sick as you're making out. It's not like she was crippled or something. That's what I meant. Do you understand ??????


:rolleyes:

I am sorry but I can't find a better answer to that.

Don't be sorry that's just something you'll have to work on.

cynicole
Apr 21st, 2003, 02:23 PM
Well apparently the Koukalova match where Monica hit the ground after a game and a half was also useful for the purpose of analysis.

Don't forget that loss to Foretz last year...or the one to de los Rios the year before.

It's a wonder she has ever beaten several Top 10 players and made a Slam semifinal since losing to de los Rios. ;)

*JR*
Apr 21st, 2003, 06:19 PM
Vocana, READ THIS

get a job and do something with yuor life instead of living on welfare and spending all yuor time 24/7 posting shit about tennis players

holy cow! can't yuo see it? yuo're pissing yuor life away

that is all

- Car Key Boi
As one who has honestly praised Da Boi's humor and intelligence, I find this post shocking (unless it was a joke, but there's no j/k, ;), or other indication that it was). I don't know what Volcana does for a living (maybe a "student tard"?), but @ least never saw V post something like: I'm superior to all of yuo because I saw ways to make money off the war, blah. (And I believe this board IS about tennis players...). :confused:

Dawn Marie
Apr 21st, 2003, 06:53 PM
U people who complain about Volcana are wasting your time.

1.Volcana has his own opinions he can write within reason what he feels is his opinion.

2.Volcana prolly knows things bug you and responses like this only make him laugh out loud.

3.You just can't control Volcana, he is not your biAtch. What the heck do u mean Volcana you BETTER read this? Like if he doesn't and still has his opinions like wtf is anybody going to do up in here? Shoot him? Ban Him? Suspend Him, Beat him up? JUST WHAT IN THE HOCKEYPHUCK CAN U DO?

4.Fun thread.. and thank you.:);)

Valda Lake
Apr 21st, 2003, 08:41 PM
Fingon is dead on right here! I posted the same sentiments about his (Volcana's) hidden desperate agendas months ago...that thread was yanked before I saw comment.

It seems that very few people here can see through the Pied Piper act...but if they are stupid enough to fall for it they deserve to be mis-led.

I think Volcana is highly intelligent and he used to post some great stuff on a regular basis...but I think something must have happened to change this. He now cleverly uses stats and his provocative thread titles to manipulate his minions (after giving them what they want for a time) into thinking that he is all knowing so that nobody else merits an opinion once he has "spoken".


I mostly read these boards and do not usually add my 2 cents...but trust me...I'm no fool...neither is Fingon...he is very intelligent as well. If you are inclined...do a search and really try to read between the lines...it might take you awhile...but the patterns are there. ̃

Oh and btw...HELL YEAH Volcana is reading every word of this! Are you flucking kidding me?

He is aware of every person who is catching on...and his mind is probably filled with thoughts of damage control as I write this...what a tortured soul he must be to put this much effort into a tennis board that could be gone tomorrow!

HA!

selesfan
Apr 21st, 2003, 08:58 PM
Basically what persond said is this:

YOU CAN'T CONTROL WHAT HE(VOLCANA) FEELS ABOUT JUSTINE'S LOSS TO KAPROS. IF HE CHOOSES TO STATE IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN OH WELL AND DEAL WITH IT!

IF I KNEW THIS BUGGED THOSE WHO POSTED AGAINST IT, Hell I WOULD HAVE STATED IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

Well at least I know what will grate some of you..

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!;)

Its too bad I can't give you any more positive rep points ;) Maybe tomorrow. :)

Car Key Boi
Apr 21st, 2003, 09:35 PM
hahaha, if yuo guys think the Car Key Boi is bothered about the nature of Volcana's posts, yuo're very much mistaken

i'm just saying he should get a FUCKING JOB and make something of his life instead of pissing it away - the clock is ticking

years from now all his wonderful and insightful posts will count for approxiamately JACK SHIT and he'll be just another BUM hanging outside TACO BELL begging for loose change as well as scavaging the trash cans outside Church's Chicken licking the grease off the cartons

that is all

- Car Key Boi

Jakeev
Apr 21st, 2003, 10:56 PM
I was wondering when little BOI was gonna put some of his nickels on the table...........

jenny161185
Apr 21st, 2003, 11:07 PM
Justine's a fighter and she tried to fight her way through the match and her illness but lost.
She'll be gald this year as she strolls into RG one of the favourites with nothing to defend :wavey:

harloo
Apr 21st, 2003, 11:15 PM
Well, Fingon if Volcana's opinion is that she is not a top player, then that's his opinion. Creating a thread about it won't change. I for one like some of Volcana's posts, they are thought provoking. IMO, until Justine proves herself by winning a slam, the questions will continue to linger. It's the same with everyone on the tour. Until Venus, Serena, Davenport, Capriati won a slam the questions were mounting about them and whether or not they had it.

Justine at times does choke, but that's a part of gaining experience. We will all see what happens if she reaches her full potential. So, IMO worrying about someone elses opinion about her is useless. Be happy about her win and move on, because their is no reason to look back at the past. :D

Fingon
Apr 22nd, 2003, 12:16 AM
Fingon is dead on right here! I posted the same sentiments about his (Volcana's) hidden desperate agendas months ago...that thread was yanked before I saw comment.

It seems that very few people here can see through the Pied Piper act...but if they are stupid enough to fall for it they deserve to be mis-led.

I think Volcana is highly intelligent and he used to post some great stuff on a regular basis...but I think something must have happened to change this. He now cleverly uses stats and his provocative thread titles to manipulate his minions (after giving them what they want for a time) into thinking that he is all knowing so that nobody else merits an opinion once he has "spoken".


I mostly read these boards and do not usually add my 2 cents...but trust me...I'm no fool...neither is Fingon...he is very intelligent as well. If you are inclined...do a search and really try to read between the lines...it might take you awhile...but the patterns are there. ̃

Oh and btw...HELL YEAH Volcana is reading every word of this! Are you flucking kidding me?

He is aware of every person who is catching on...and his mind is probably filled with thoughts of damage control as I write this...what a tortured soul he must be to put this much effort into a tennis board that could be gone tomorrow!

HA!

You are absolutely right, and I am glad that someone who has been here long enough can see the pattern.

As ShadowJack, and other user names, he was completely different, he used to be one of my favourite posters. His posts were smart, informative, original and never controversial, all of that has changed and I don't know why.

Fingon
Apr 22nd, 2003, 12:24 AM
Well, Fingon if Volcana's opinion is that she is not a top player, then that's his opinion. Creating a thread about it won't change. I for one like some of Volcana's posts, they are thought provoking. IMO, until Justine proves herself by winning a slam, the questions will continue to linger. It's the same with everyone on the tour. Until Venus, Serena, Davenport, Capriati won a slam the questions were mounting about them and whether or not they had it.

Justine at times does choke, but that's a part of gaining experience. We will all see what happens if she reaches her full potential. So, IMO worrying about someone elses opinion about her is useless. Be happy about her win and move on, because their is no reason to look back at the past. :D


that's not the point. I couldn't care less what Volcana thinks (if I knew).

The point is, Volcana is a very intelligent man, that has great language skills, and he presents his ideas very well, based on "facts", and people take them.

The points is that most of his facts are wrong, or twisted, or are only half-true, and he KNOWS it. If he was someone else I wouldn't care, but I know Volcana is NOT stupid.

My purpose is only to demonstrate how baseless are some of his "facts".

If you make a statement based on certain fact, and that fact is wrong, then your statement is very likely wrong (unless you are lucky).

Regarding Justine proving herself, I agree, she needs to win a GS, but hey, Kim hasn't won a GS but Volcana doesn't judge her the same.

Remember a few months ago that he thought that Dokic was the next big thing? he changed his mind because of Dokic's recent results but it's interesting to see how what he sees some problems in Justine and he doesn't see the same problems on other players (or worse problems).

One example, he said some times ago that he didn't like Justine because she has said nasty things. Fair enough, but he used to like Dokic, and do you want to bet who said the worse things?

If Justine loses to a "non-elite" player is a problem, if Kim does the same it's ok. It's a clear double standard and I am don't believe he does it just to upset me, I am not that important, but he doesn't like Justine I believe because he doesn't like a small talented player to do well because would prove his theories wrong. That's why he's likened Justine to Serena or to Conchita. He doesn't like people saying Justine is a finesse player and Serena is a power player, so he wants to dismiss Justine so the comparissons are not possible.

Hulet
Apr 22nd, 2003, 12:48 AM
I think everyone is missing the most important point, which is....is volcana a male or a female? :)

HAIL-VENUS
Apr 22nd, 2003, 12:58 AM
you know? I have often wondered the same thing eta psi.

Valda Lake
Apr 22nd, 2003, 01:00 AM
Volcana is a MALE alumni of Rego Park Ballerina School...(heh heh)

This isnt just about Justine...it is about ANYONE who threatens the virginal Williams franchise...I for one should be counted as a fan of the Williams...they are true champions and deserve better than the "going to the freak show" perfection label that they get from a fanatic fan who is hell-bent on twisting around every possible scenario concerning them...Volcana has (in his subtle way) dismissed several top players of which one is my fav. It seems that he goes after Kim, Justine, Monica and Maggie the most...I am a great fan of Maleeva and she OWNS Venus...but Volcana was so brazen to say that "nobody can beat them twice" (the Williams) and he ate his words but did not comment...Does anybody ever notice that he doesn't give credit when it is due...instead he will conjure up another frivolous thread to detract from someone's win over a Williams...Get a brain people...I do not think anyone who was not on Sanex will get this...but there are those of us who do...and IMO our words count...so ̃!

Hi Volcana! :) (lmfao!)

Martian KC
Apr 22nd, 2003, 01:05 AM
Volcana doesn't have to post. His yes men will continue his assault by defending him. And the best part was the yes men didn't have a clue what this thread was about.

Sam L
Apr 22nd, 2003, 01:06 AM
Fingon is dead on right here! I posted the same sentiments about his (Volcana's) hidden desperate agendas months ago...that thread was yanked before I saw comment.

It seems that very few people here can see through the Pied Piper act...but if they are stupid enough to fall for it they deserve to be mis-led.

I think Volcana is highly intelligent and he used to post some great stuff on a regular basis...but I think something must have happened to change this. He now cleverly uses stats and his provocative thread titles to manipulate his minions (after giving them what they want for a time) into thinking that he is all knowing so that nobody else merits an opinion once he has "spoken".


I mostly read these boards and do not usually add my 2 cents...but trust me...I'm no fool...neither is Fingon...he is very intelligent as well. If you are inclined...do a search and really try to read between the lines...it might take you awhile...but the patterns are there. ̃

Oh and btw...HELL YEAH Volcana is reading every word of this! Are you flucking kidding me?

He is aware of every person who is catching on...and his mind is probably filled with thoughts of damage control as I write this...what a tortured soul he must be to put this much effort into a tennis board that could be gone tomorrow!

HA!

I remember that thread and I agreed with you, but you presented it in a libelous manner and I think that was why it was deleted.

~ The Leopard ~
Apr 22nd, 2003, 01:19 AM
Let's have bets as to whether Volcana is male or female. I say female. What was a bloke doing in NOW?

Valda Lake
Apr 22nd, 2003, 01:20 AM
Excuse me "Sam L" but I recall you saying something about "telling me off" (in a recent thread) and I am very curious why you dug up that thread on Sanex posters...Were you on Sanex? You seem to know a lot about the posters there but nobody knows who the hell you are. Libelous...I was p'od that night...Volcana was talking about how "should all black men be jailed or killed in the U.S." he obviously has issues...not my problem...and you are NOT my monitor..so carry on "Sam L" I'm sure you will thrive here...if anyone ever notices.

HA!

gokimmmy1884
Apr 22nd, 2003, 01:29 AM
whos valcona?

Sam L
Apr 22nd, 2003, 01:35 AM
Excuse me "Sam L" but I recall you saying something about "telling me off" (in a recent thread) and I am very curious why you dug up that thread on Sanex posters...Were you on Sanex? You seem to know a lot about the posters there but nobody knows who the hell you are. Libelous...I was p'od that night...Volcana was talking about how "should all black men be jailed or killed in the U.S." he obviously has issues...not my problem...and you are NOT my monitor..so carry on "Sam L" I'm sure you will thrive here...if anyone ever notices.

HA!
Yes I did tell you off for the manner in which you did, didn't you see it? And like you said (you were p'od), perhaps you needed to calm down before you started hurling personal insults at the guy. You think you have a right to go around accusing people of being unemployed on a message board? Why do you think your thread was closed? :rolleyes:

Oh and my goal in life is not to get noticed, at least not on a women's tennis message board anyway. LOL

gokimmmy1884
Apr 22nd, 2003, 01:36 AM
hey sam L :)

HAIL-VENUS
Apr 22nd, 2003, 01:54 AM
Damnnn...it's gettin' hot up in hur. I wonder where's Volcana, and what he/she thinks of all this?

Car Key Boi
Apr 22nd, 2003, 02:08 AM
lol SamL

it was i who said Volcana was an unemployed bum and he should get a fucking job, not Valda Lake :)

http://carkeyboi.com/dump/tard.gif

Sam L
Apr 22nd, 2003, 02:18 AM
Please CKB, I know what I'm talking about :rolleyes: I didn't make the mistake and it's obvious you didn't see Valda's thread.

Car Key Boi
Apr 22nd, 2003, 02:34 AM
Please CKB, I know what I'm talking about :rolleyes: I didn't make the mistake and it's obvious you didn't see Valda's thread.

ahh i see, and yes yuo're correct, i didn't see Valda's thread

still, that's neet that someone else thinks that Volcana is an UNEMPLOYED BUM!

- Car Key Boi :cool:

WtaTour4Ever
Apr 22nd, 2003, 02:39 AM
I thought Volcana was a girl. .....should i do a poll.

Rtael
Apr 22nd, 2003, 02:41 AM
I think it's kinda funny that Volcana won't reply to this...And thinking about it...if someone try to refute his points in any other posts he never responds to them...which makes me think his theories really don't hold any water?

harloo
Apr 22nd, 2003, 02:57 AM
Volcana doesn't have to post. His yes men will continue his assault by defending him. And the best part was the yes men didn't have a clue what this thread was about.

:rolleyes: . Yes men? WTF, are you talking about? LOL :rolleyes:

harloo
Apr 22nd, 2003, 03:06 AM
that's not the point. I couldn't care less what Volcana thinks (if I knew).

The point is, Volcana is a very intelligent man, that has great language skills, and he presents his ideas very well, based on "facts", and people take them.

The points is that most of his facts are wrong, or twisted, or are only half-true, and he KNOWS it. If he was someone else I wouldn't care, but I know Volcana is NOT stupid.

My purpose is only to demonstrate how baseless are some of his "facts".

If you make a statement based on certain fact, and that fact is wrong, then your statement is very likely wrong (unless you are lucky).

Regarding Justine proving herself, I agree, she needs to win a GS, but hey, Kim hasn't won a GS but Volcana doesn't judge her the same.

Remember a few months ago that he thought that Dokic was the next big thing? he changed his mind because of Dokic's recent results but it's interesting to see how what he sees some problems in Justine and he doesn't see the same problems on other players (or worse problems).

One example, he said some times ago that he didn't like Justine because she has said nasty things. Fair enough, but he used to like Dokic, and do you want to bet who said the worse things?

If Justine loses to a "non-elite" player is a problem, if Kim does the same it's ok. It's a clear double standard and I am don't believe he does it just to upset me, I am not that important, but he doesn't like Justine I believe because he doesn't like a small talented player to do well because would prove his theories wrong. That's why he's likened Justine to Serena or to Conchita. He doesn't like people saying Justine is a finesse player and Serena is a power player, so he wants to dismiss Justine so the comparissons are not possible.

Ok, but even though you act as if you don't care what he thinks, but here you go on and on about what? So, you don't agree with his presentation of the facts right? Just debate them.

I really don't understand what is the problem. If you look at things around here, if any top player loses early it's an uproar of sorts. The biggest reaction getters are the Williams because they don't lose to often. However, everyone else recieves their share of criticism.

Again, you say you don't care what he thinks but then you continue to pick apart his opinions. Even if they are flawed in your opinion, all you should do is debate them. JMO. I will leave it alone after this.

~ The Leopard ~
Apr 22nd, 2003, 03:10 AM
I thought Volcana was a girl. .....should i do a poll.

It is a feminine name. There is a Marvel Comics character called "Volcana" who is female. Now and then Volcana tells us some of his/her background in political activism and it sounds more like that of a woman.

But when I joined the board a year ago everyone was calling Volcana "he". I assumed that they knew something I didn't. Lately, I've started to wonder what their basis was.

I guess Volcana is laughing at me and the rest of us...and enjoying the mystery. :D

Car Key Boi
Apr 22nd, 2003, 03:14 AM
perhaps Volcana is a bit of both, a chick with a dick so to speak http://carkeyboi.com/dump/tard.gif

- Car Key Boi :cool:

Dawn Marie
Apr 22nd, 2003, 04:14 AM
Oh the irony in this fun thread.:)

Eating popcorn, with a bit of hot sauce on it.

Entertaining, very entertaining.. LOL

thanks guys..An an honourable mention goes out to Volcana.

Oh and Fingon, it's is nice to hear from you.. it's been awhile.:)

Volcana u username you.. you're too funny.

Valda Lake
Apr 22nd, 2003, 04:59 AM
Oh "Sam L" did I hurt you by not seeing your tell off post? I bet you put a lot of effort into it...and hoped to climb Volcana's "idiot fringe" ladder.

Listen...between you and me...you can go tell me off anytime...I bet you are just full of piss and vinegar...after all you are the ever-popular "Sam L"! LMFAO!!!

And why eactly did you dig up the old Sanex thread in Non-Tennis...are you trying to affiliate or re-affirm yourself dearie? *scratches head*

You have been dissed TWICE now...do you wish to make a total fool of yourself any further...because I'm not interested...so I stand here with limbs flailed, all raw and waiting for the stern punishment of "Sam L"...someone who has long been respected on both boards...God what was I thinking when I entered "Sam L's" world? Boy...I sure am kicking myself!

I sure hope your neighbor is a pet lover...We might have a Son of Sam L...and that would be ruff! :)

Sam L
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:09 AM
I sure hope your neighbor is a pet lover...We might have a Son of Sam L...and that would be ruff! :)

Now look who's been stalking around, looking up other people's old posts. LMAO! If I didn't think you were lame enough already... LOL!

I don't even like or care for Volcana, in fact I said I agreed with what you said not just the way you said it. Put it this way you sounded like a twisted little bitch in that thread. You can thank the moderators for deleting it to save your ass from embarassment. Hey if you're angry that it got deleted, you should take it up with them. Am I a moderator? NO!

Affiliate? Re-affirm? Popular? Goes to show how much you know about me. I'm tired of your pointless drivel. Is that what you do when you're pissed, going around throwing accusations at people on message boards?

Dissed TWICE? LOL whatever...

Bright Red
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:18 AM
The point is, Volcana is a very intelligent man, that has great language skills, and he presents his ideas very well, based on "facts", and people take them.

The points is that most of his facts are wrong, or twisted, or are only half-true, and he KNOWS it. If he was someone else I wouldn't care, but I know Volcana is NOT stupid.

My purpose is only to demonstrate how baseless are some of his "facts"

It seems to me that some people are confusing opinions with facts. If someone feels that Justine isn't an elite player because she lost to Kapros, then that really sounds like an opinion to me.

It's amazing how much nastiness is in this thread. Get over it.

Valda Lake
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:23 AM
Oh "Sam L" I see that you are thoroughly riveted to my words (its just not mutual). I didn't "DIG" anything up...YOU "Sam L" did in Non-Tennis last week when you dug up an old Sanex posters thread and commented on my friend griffin...who BY THE FUCKING WAY deleted that post to Volcana months ago and explained to me why...You claim to have responded...but I dont know you in the least...you must have been proud to "tell Valda off" if you re-hashed it...and by the way...I dont need to watch my back...others have it here...thats how I knew you were claiming to have "schooled" me when nobody noticed...See?

PUTZ!

PS I always get the last word ass-wipe! If not now...later...if you last here...(hehe) :):):)

TennisHack
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:24 AM
Oh "Sam L" I see that you are thoroughly riveted to my words (its just not mutual). I didn't "DIG" anything up...YOU "Sam L" did in Non-Tennis last week when you dug up an old Sanex posters thread and commented on my friend griffin...who BY THE FUCKING WAY deleted that post to Volcana months ago and explained to me why...You claim to have responded...but I dont know you in the least...you must have been proud to "tell Valda off" if you re-hashed it...and by the way...I dont need to watch my back...others have it here...thats how I knew you were claiming to have "schooled" me when nobody noticed...See?

PUTZ!

PS I always get the last word ass-wipe! If not now...later...if you last here...(hehe) :):):)

Um, how old are you? Because this is ridiculous.

Crazy Canuck
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:27 AM
This thread is so good, I'm surprised that LSG didnt' start it :D

Sam L
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:31 AM
Oh so now I get it. You're bitter about what I said about "your friend griffin". I tell you what, I don't know what I said about griffin, but I like her and her posts. Hell I don't think we have a problem between each other. So don't go losing your sleep anytime, there there! I know you'll get through this :sad:

PS: I'm not the one complaining about YOUR deleted thread. This is what YOU said, "I posted the same sentiments about his (Volcana's) hidden desperate agendas months ago...that thread was yanked before I saw comment." So looks like you're the one who's hang up on it still. Poor thing.

Dawn Marie
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:36 AM
Hmm but it got predictable and boring...suddenly!

Ricardo needs to get his azz in here so I can laugh again.. his rambling is missed! Ok ok I know that is predictable as well.. but still it's been so long!

RICARDO.. get your Argentinian butt in here.

It's like old times.. ...

Congrats to you for Elena earning her first title.

You should be happy though, forget about Volcana.. he/she just likes to see ERUPTIONS.

I must say the LAVA is hot in here. :)

Chance
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:37 AM
nah, Mrs Guga usually starts the best threads ;)

I noticed that too,Rtael.

Take a chill pill,Valda Lake.

spencercarlos
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:41 AM
Well, Fingon if Volcana's opinion is that she is not a top player, then that's his opinion. Creating a thread about it won't change. I for one like some of Volcana's posts, they are thought provoking. IMO, until Justine proves herself by winning a slam, the questions will continue to linger. It's the same with everyone on the tour. Until Venus, Serena, Davenport, Capriati won a slam the questions were mounting about them and whether or not they had it.

Justine at times does choke, but that's a part of gaining experience. We will all see what happens if she reaches her full potential. So, IMO worrying about someone elses opinion about her is useless. Be happy about her win and move on, because their is no reason to look back at the past. :D
Well, Justine obviously is a top player, not for nothing she has been in semis of 3/4 slams Australia, Roland GArros and Wimbledon (RU in 2001 in fact), 4th finish her best at Usopen.

Anyway she has beaten Venus, Serena, Seles, Dokic, Kim, Davenport, Capriati, Rubin, Hantuchova. So she must be close to become a top player :p don´t you think Volcana?

Valda Lake
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:42 AM
Oh Becca isn't this like a roller-coaster ride that doesn't end? :)

"Sam L" we are good...from what I have seen at least you have wontons...I will exchange with you in the future...you need to look at WHY you opened up a dead thread about people you do not know and believe the first thing you see...AND comment on it...You (at least) seem fairly intelligent and I wont pick on you anymore (until you piss me off again). OK?

Bright Red
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:48 AM
Justine is a top player, but there's still a gap between her and Serena, Venus and even Kim, IMO. Justine has the goods to be elite (i.e. #1 in the world). What she lacks is mental toughness.

Sam L
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:49 AM
Valda Lake, I don't care what you think about me (that's up to you, and I couldn't care less) but you need to get your facts straight before you go accusing of me (or other people).

Here's the thread in question, or at least I assume so seeing there aren't any other "Sanex board members" threads around. It's here (http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?threadid=33727&mode=linear&perpage=40&highlight=griffin+sanex&pagenumber=2)

As you can see if you scroll to my post where I ASKED about griffin I posted my post on August 6th 2002, just after somebody else. It was Lelu that dug up that thread on April 18th 2003.

So perhaps you need to take it up with her.

And can't you see she was joking when she said "Yeah, Sam, why did you dig this thread up? ;)" which was her very last post?

Bloody hell!

Fingon
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:52 AM
It seems to me that some people are confusing opinions with facts. If someone feels that Justine isn't an elite player because she lost to Kapros, then that really sounds like an opinion to me.

It's amazing how much nastiness is in this thread. Get over it.

nope, wrong.

volcana of course has opinions, I have opinions, everyone does. The difference is that volcana wants his opinions to become other people's opinion, on the base of the "facts" he provides, that's his statistics, tables, etc. He affirms something, gives half-trues or twisted facts and tries to make other people think like him, it's a form of brain washing and that's what pissed me off, not what he thinks.

Sam L
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:53 AM
And I'm good if you want to be good, it's just that at least on this page, you seem very angry and wanting some form of vengeance. If griffin took offense to that post of mine, I'll be happy to apologize to her, but she hasn't since said a thing to me.

Fingon
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:54 AM
Justine is a top player, but there's still a gap between her and Serena, Venus and even Kim, IMO. Justine has the goods to be elite (i.e. #1 in the world). What she lacks is mental toughness.


Now, THIS is an opinion, and a valid one, I actually agree with it, but right or wrong, you are expressing it as YOUR opinion, not trying to force other people to think like you, and not lying to achieve that, that's why you don't piss me off even if we disagree and Volcana does.

Valda Lake
Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:56 AM
I'll check that...if I am wrong I apologize...but Lelu is a strapping young martial artist who is MALE...and I would be surprised if he started that...if he did he will hear from me...and again I apologize if I was wrong...

Isn't it bedtime for you? I'm waiting for the hardcore posters in here now...y'know? :)

Valda Lake
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:06 AM
Just like I said Fingon...Volcana fancies himself the Pied Piper here...and sooooo many impressionable posters are enthralled by his "innocent" threads...they have no idea how they are being brainwashed gradually over time...but like I said...screw the idiots...they deserve to be humiliated...not Volcana...but his followers...Volcana can always wiggle out of this by his wits...they cannot! HA!

Sammy boy...lets call a truce...I dont want you going to bed with your girdle in a twist...perhaps griffin hasn't seen that post or perhaps she has seen it a zillion times before...catch my drift?

Dawn Marie
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:07 AM
Ah... hello Fingon.

And now it gets back to interesting..

Sheesh all these people popping in and out is making me so dizzy.;)

Ricardo, I understand somewhat why uu may be a bit ticked at Volcana, I understand Justine is your favorite.. now. Really though so what if Volcana gives half truths or not 100% facts?

Don't you think it a bit too much to get angry over Volcana's post? I mean it's not like he or she is going around..degrading Justine, or making racial slurs or cause much trouble in here. It's not like Volcana is the type of poster who is the *in your face, posting in here to cause trouble kind of poster*.
If he or she were I woud think they would be arguing back with you all.. but they're not.

Have you posters thought about what you can do to help your feelings about Volcana's post? I noticed alot of the people who are upset have been around since Sanex started. Maybe you guys are burnt out and need message board break. Afterall it's been so many years ...

Sometimes it is hard to step away though..:)

Rtael
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:10 AM
SMOOCHES

ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE MY BROTHA!!!


yeah, I'm weird...

Bright Red
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:13 AM
nope, wrong.

volcana of course has opinions, I have opinions, everyone does. The difference is that volcana wants his opinions to become other people's opinion, on the base of the "facts" he provides, that's his statistics, tables, etc. He affirms something, gives half-trues or twisted facts and tries to make other people think like him, it's a form of brain washing and that's what pissed me off, not what he thinks.

What's it to you if he wants to influence others opinions? Why get upset about it? I personally think that people are smart enough to think for themselves. If they lack a critical mind, then your concern for them should be for reasons much more serious than tennis trivia.

Dawn Marie
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:17 AM
I agree with what Bright Red just posted and I know Volcana is not the only person in the world or in here who influences people's opinions?!?!

I admit I don't read all of Volcana's post, but I don't find him or her to be this much trouble.

Valda Lake
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:21 AM
HELL NO!!! People are NOT smart enough to decide for themselves...if you see some of the posts you will understand that these "underlings" are grasping at anything that Volcana says...and they carry it with them...satisfied that they are "informed" while all the while Volcana is laughing his fat black azz off at them (likely on the toilet). DO NOT COMMENT IF YOU DO NOT KNOW THE SUBJECT!

Volcana is a 50+ year old black man who digs James Brown...thus his signature. I think its highly possible to fool a few morons at his age!

Bright Red
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:23 AM
I don't read all of Volcana's posts either, but the ones I have read are very thoughtful and insightful. It almost sounds as if Fingon is envious.

All of us come to this board because we enjoy posting on it. We're not getting paid to post, afterall. Each of us have our own style, and we post as we see fit. It's pretty tacky to single someone out like this.

F-R-E-A-K
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:24 AM
how crap is this!!

Dawn Marie
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:27 AM
Me thinks Volcana is laughing right now, and he didn't even have to post one untrue false stat.

Fingon, what are you going to do? How are you going to help out those who like Volcana's post but yet are believing his supposed false words as well? Sometimes we have to let the people decide, we can't hold their hands all the time. Crossing that street is possible all by their selves.

Dawn Marie
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:34 AM
It sounds like to me, that people can't control Volcana and they are beside themselves? It seems that they want people to believe how THEY preceive Volcana and to not like him as a poster?!?

This is how I am seeing it.

If people like Volcana warts and all, then so be it. No harm is done.


Well, it's been fun... Fingon... again congrats to you on Elena's win.

I LOVe you all.. and frankly.. and honestly.. I found this to be fun.:):)

Goodbye:)

Valda Lake
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:43 AM
Fingon is not envious...maybe its time for payback is all...Remember Volcana had a signature mocking Fingon for months and was never told to remove it...Why aren't we entitled to challenge Volcana...and JUST WHY hasn't he said a word?

Hmm...I for one will watch every word he says this week...he is gonna have to think extra hard with me on his azz...it's just too easy with a fellow like Volcana...he always hides and then posts from the shadows to get a rise (never to be heard from again...at least not until he gets his "cult" status from the minions...then he feels "big") out of newbie prolific posters who will keep his threads at top...

How many "expert level" posters respond to him? Take a look...its usually someone defending their fav...or agreeing with him...I used to praise him...until I realized what he is all about...pathetic!

Crazy Canuck
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:51 AM
*insert random porno music*

Dawn Marie
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:53 AM
Fingon could be a bit envious, we can't read his mind. That is not saying he IS envious, but we are also not him either. There's no problem challenging Volcana's opinions, just like there is no problem in people liking Volcana's post. Or Volcana posting stats even if they are wrong sometimes.

Ok,nite nite all. For good this time.;):)

WE CAN ALL GET ALONG WE HAVE FOR THIS LONG!

So long Sanex posters..Nite nite.:)

disposablehero
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:54 AM
nope, wrong.

volcana of course has opinions, I have opinions, everyone does. The difference is that volcana wants his opinions to become other people's opinion, on the base of the "facts" he provides, that's his statistics, tables, etc. He affirms something, gives half-trues or twisted facts and tries to make other people think like him, it's a form of brain washing and that's what pissed me off, not what he thinks.

I've mostly given up trying to counteract the week to week foolishness that becomes gospel on this board. I usually just wait now and laugh at the people when they are proven wrong yet again. Sometimes I'll take a sentence or two to put my viewpoint on the record. (Just for future reference. :D )

Jakeev
Apr 22nd, 2003, 09:12 AM
HELL NO!!! People are NOT smart enough to decide for themselves...if you see some of the posts you will understand that these "underlings" are grasping at anything that Volcana says...and they carry it with them...satisfied that they are "informed" while all the while Volcana is laughing his fat black azz off at them (likely on the toilet). DO NOT COMMENT IF YOU DO NOT KNOW THE SUBJECT!

Volcana is a 50+ year old black man who digs James Brown...thus his signature. I think its highly possible to fool a few morons at his age!

I don't know Valda, I just cannot agree with you or fingon about this. I don't agree with every nook and cranny Volcana has to say but I have more respect for him than that jackass persond who supposedly is the same age or older.

I am sure people equally do not like or respect what you or fingon have to ever say on this board. Many on here sure as hell can't stand me.

Either way my mind is not changed. Volcana is a great contributer to this board.

spencercarlos
Apr 22nd, 2003, 10:49 AM
The best fact of this thread is that Volcana has not even post here :p ;)

Hulet
Apr 22nd, 2003, 02:34 PM
Here is another important question.... is volcana the false messiah? :) Debate.

Experimentee
Apr 22nd, 2003, 04:17 PM
Kapros wasnt her only bad loss of last year. Even if we do say she was sick when that happened, she was still healthy when she lost to players like Irvin. Volcana's point still stands.

Hurley
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:17 PM
She broke her finger in the Irvin match, so no it doesn't.

Kart
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:27 PM
What's it to you if he wants to influence others opinions? Why get upset about it? I personally think that people are smart enough to think for themselves. If they lack a critical mind, then your concern for them should be for reasons much more serious than tennis trivia.

I agree with this post. Volcana does not hold a gun to anyone's head and he can say what he (and it is undoubtedly a he after reading his comments about Venus and Serena in bikinis) likes. He frequently has things to say about Monica that I disagree with again and again but I don't change my mind and he doesn't change his. I won't hold back when I think he's being ridiculous, however, debate is what this board is about. If people get influenced by what he says it's no big deal. Even if this whole board was convinced he was right and regarded Justine as a non-elite player it wouldn't stop her from winning her next grand slam or beating her next Williams sister. Anyway I can't see any difference in what this thread is trying to achieve. Either you regard the Kapros match as a scar on Justine's elite ability or you don't.

On a (sad) side note, it's a shame what this thread has deteriorated into - an attempted trial and conviction of Volcana who has clearly made it his intention not to get involved. I thought this thread was supposed to be about Justine.

griffin
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:36 PM
Sad, but not surprising.

If you disagree with someone, disagree. Think their stats are wrong, incomplete or misleading, feel free to counter them.

But good grief, to read this thread, you'd think we were talking about Jim Jones or David Koresh, and not some person posting about tennis.

brickhousesupporter
Apr 22nd, 2003, 06:36 PM
I agree with this post. Volcana does not hold a gun to anyone's head and he can say what he (and it is undoubtedly a he after reading his comments about Venus and Serena in bikinis) likes. He frequently has things to say about Monica that I disagree with again and again but I don't change my mind and he doesn't change his. I won't hold back when I think he's being ridiculous, however, debate is what this board is about. If people get influenced by what he says it's no big deal. Even if this whole board was convinced he was right and regarded Justine as a non-elite player it wouldn't stop her from winning her next grand slam or beating her next Williams sister. Anyway I can't see any difference in what this thread is trying to achieve. Either you regard the Kapros match as a scar on Justine's elite ability or you don't.

On a (sad) side note, it's a shame what this thread has deteriorated into - an attempted trial and conviction of Volcana who has clearly made it his intention not to get involved. I thought this thread was supposed to be about Justine.


Well said I could not have said it any better. :worship: :wavey: