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Picol
Apr 16th, 2003, 07:46 AM
This thread is about some general observations that I have made, this year in particular, reguarding the American Media and the Elite and not so Elite American Woman Tennis players.

This mainly stems back from the Australian open and onwards.

The big thing that disturbed me greatly about the Australian open was the ease that Serena and Venus made it too the final, according to the American press. That will become folklore, as all does with the American media. Forgotten will be the fact that Serena fell into the 2nd round and fell into the final. As Martina Navratilova said on finals day for the "Australian coverage" Quote "Serena has to win this, she should not of been here in round 2 and definately should not be in the final, a loss would be devastating after all that".

America? well those are issues they failed to address much to the detriment of American Tennis. why you ask?

They are delveloping a false sense of secruity around there top players for a start.

The American Media has not Questioned where Jennifer Capriati is, but the rest of the world can point out, and rightly, that us females of the species could of concievably (no pun intended) given birth to two children and have them both off the bottle between tournament wins. Quite Frankly, we could be pregnant for the third time. The American media doesn't have a problem with this. Jennifer's fans and tennis fans over all must...surely.

They also haven't asked about Lindsay, who has managed to garner together one tournament win from 6 or more finals since she has returned. Lindsay is fast becoming a "Solid semi-finalist" and it is a shame to see, but one the American media is quite happy to sit with, alas rubbing off on tennis fans. Surely once again Lindsay fans and Tennis fans must be worried.

Venus? well she is just plodding along as the "Ever the Bridesmaid" and the American media doesn't care about that either. Of course I am sure it would be different if it was a non-american always handing Venus the "Bridesmaid" trophy.

Serena? Well, she is the deserved number 1, no doubt about that, but when she says things that are so outrageous like she is going to go undefeated in 2003 and then the American media jump on the band wagon and believe it and push it as a "fait a compli", then it just compounds the problems even further.

So when Justine defeated Serena last week we seen the American headlines, they were all about how badly Serena played. No where was to be seen was the way Justine actually dismantled Serena (Those who have seen the match will agree) and shook her to the core by rattling of 23 of 26 points. In fact the WTA reported it from 3-3 in the first set. Totally ignored the fact that Serena lead 3-0 and lost 6 games straight.

So the heat was applied by different sections of the media world wide, laughing at America's "Cotton wooling" of there top stars and they responded, with the full backing of the WTA, the only way the American media can:

"Ashley Harkleroad, a future number 1!!"

So what does this all mean?

To me it means the America media are making total fools of themselves and there Tennis stars. They Believe the dominance of American female tennis is complete, the rest of the world saw the cracks long ago and are slowly and defiantely prising them open into gaping holes.

The rest of the world can see a aging Seles/Raymond/Davenport/Capriati.

The rest of the world can see:
A continuing weaking of Venus as her inability to win the "Majors" is slowly but surely lowering down the tennis ladder

The rest of the world can see:
A defiant and sometimes Arrogant world number 1, who is finally finding out what it is like to be hunted and puts her not so dominate form of late down to another "off day"

Maybe she has been reading the "Local" paper too much and actually believes it.

I admire all 4 girls I have discussed here and wish them well, but there is a defiante weakening in the grip of Americans on the game, maybe the Media should be asking questions now and not in 2 years time. By then they maybe asking where America's next Top 50 player is coming from.

Now how does all this tie in with the Thread title?

Beats me, as far as the rest of the world and it's players can see, the American Media and The WTA are the same outfit.

SpikeyAidanm
Apr 16th, 2003, 07:51 AM
I agree the American media needs to stop acting so patriotic for once

King Lindsay
Apr 16th, 2003, 08:51 AM
It has been three years since a player from a country apart from the USA won a major. And you think that America is slipping as a tennis powerhouse? HAH.

Dava
Apr 16th, 2003, 08:55 AM
I know it is scary to think the last non-US GS winner was MARY PIERCE :eek: :eek: :eek:

King Lindsay
Apr 16th, 2003, 08:57 AM
And even Mary is more American than anything else. ;)

Honestly, if you want ignore Pierce's alleged French-ness, it goes back to RG 1999 where Steffi won.

Picol
Apr 16th, 2003, 09:15 AM
Nothing nicer then a few people like the above 2 to illustrate the very attitude that my thoughts ascertain too.

King Lindsay
Apr 16th, 2003, 09:27 AM
Well, sorry if I get a little jingoistic about my country and all .... oh wait, that's right, I'm not even American and therefore I don't think I can be illustrating that attitude, can I?

Picol, forecasting the imminent doom of American women's tennis seems a little stupid when there is absolutely no reason to believe that will happen. I could go into all the things in your post which are wrong but .... ah, what the hell.

" defiant and sometimes Arrogant world number 1, who is finally finding out what it is like to be hunted and puts her not so dominate form of late down to another 'off day'"

Yes, that Serena sure hasn't been very dominant lately. And all those off days she's been having! But I can hardly remember the last one before her Charleston loss... oh wait, that's right, she hadn't had one since NOVEMBER. She's 21-1 on the year. Not so dominant, huh?

venus has been to the last four major finals and is clearly the 2nd best player in the world, rankings be damned. I really don't think she's on the decline.

Lindsay is back to the top five after a terrible injury. She's only just getting back to where she was.

Jen has been slumping, I will give you that much. But she's still #6. Hardly a collapse.

And what have you say about Americans' record at the Slams over the past three years? It's unreal to me how you can possibly suggest that America's grip on the game is weakening. There is no evidence to suggest that. None.

Picol
Apr 16th, 2003, 09:52 AM
I think you are ignoring some things.

I will try and write this as clearly as my opinions in my mind will allow.

1. Serena will never have things fall her way they way did in a slam as they did at the Aussie. She did not deserve to be in the final, but took her luck. I am not saying Venus would not of won it if Serena had fallen earlier, but I am just passing an opinion that I do not believe Venus knows how to win the big ones any more.

2.Lindsay Davenport: more then 5 top 10 players in a tournament and she is gone at semi final time if not before

3.Monica Seles: Injuries are taking any thing left. Capable of great stuff, but now needs things to go her way, including claw.

4;Jennifer Capriati: By god, I'm pregnant a 3rd time

5: Well looking, nothing coming up.

So to me you have 2 fleeting stars (lets face up to the fact that Serena and Venus will only last another 2-3 years tops with there constantly ailing bodies), two on the otherside of 25 and one closing in on 30 and nothing to get excited about coming up.

I do believe in 2 years time there will be, if the Americans are lucky, maybe 1 in the top 10 and maybe 2 or 3 in the top 20. The writing is there, if you look.

King Lindsay
Apr 16th, 2003, 10:00 AM
LOL. It's really not. Venus and Serena will be around for years. Monica, Lindsay, Jennifer less so, but they will be top players until they retire which is a while off. The two Williamses will carry America over to the new generation in any event.

Venus doesn't know how to beat her sister anymore. She knows how to beat everyone else.

Serena is ruling the game. She wasn't that good in Australia, but still enough to get the job done. Then she blazed through Paris and Miami, only to lose the FCC final to Justine. I don't see the decline there.

I simply don't buy anything you're trying to sell here. I think you're absolutely dead-wrong. There is no sign American dominance of women's tennis will end any time soon.

Picol
Apr 16th, 2003, 10:10 AM
The only thing I can see, because going back and forth is not going to provide any definate answers, is to use a counter-balance approach.

Simply earmark this thread and bring it up when appropiate to establish a factual point between us :)

King Lindsay
Apr 16th, 2003, 10:11 AM
Go ahead. Bump in up in two years when serena's won her 10th major and Shenay Perry is #3. ;)

Picol
Apr 16th, 2003, 10:36 AM
Go ahead. Bump in up in two years when serena's won her 10th major and Shenay Perry is #3. ;)

"Factual", not "Fantasy" :p

Pureracket
Apr 16th, 2003, 12:48 PM
Picol,
I'm not even in this discussion (which is very interesting by the way), but I'm pretty sure that I'm going to ram my head into this computer monitor the next time you write "should of" instead of "should have".

King Lindsay
Apr 16th, 2003, 10:00 PM
LOL. i didn't even notice that!

Pureracket
Apr 16th, 2003, 10:02 PM
KL,
How could you not notice it? LOL!!!!!

King Lindsay
Apr 16th, 2003, 10:17 PM
You're right. I definitely "should of". :D

ptkten
Apr 16th, 2003, 10:30 PM
Also, American tennis does have a lot of depth as well, Shaughnessy and Stevenson while not grand slam winners are young players that should be in the top 20 consistently for the next several years. Plus Harkleroad and Granville's results in the past year show that they can be contenders in major tournaments for the years to come.

We may not see the amount of Americans in the top ten in a couple of years but America, in my opinion, is the best country in developing players that adapt well to the pro tour from basically out of nowhere. Even though the American junior results right now aren't great, I wouldn't be surprised to see a future top ten player come out of the young crop of Americans (Cohen, Gambale, Burdette) even though they clearly don't have the results right now of their european counterparts, probably because Americans don't seem to start such intense training at early ages and develop games that are much more driven by power which will help them when they get on the tour.

That being said, Venus and Serena will probably be dominating for the next 5 years and in that time, no one knows who will develop into grand slam winners, but my bet is that it will be an American.

SerenaSlam
Apr 16th, 2003, 10:45 PM
This thread is about some general observations that I have made, this year in particular, reguarding the American Media and the Elite and not so Elite American Woman Tennis players.

This mainly stems back from the Australian open and onwards.

The big thing that disturbed me greatly about the Australian open was the ease that Serena and Venus made it too the final, according to the American press. That will become folklore, as all does with the American media. Forgotten will be the fact that Serena fell into the 2nd round and fell into the final. As Martina Navratilova said on finals day for the "Australian coverage" Quote "Serena has to win this, she should not of been here in round 2 and definately should not be in the final, a loss would be devastating after all that".

America? well those are issues they failed to address much to the detriment of American Tennis. why you ask?

They are delveloping a false sense of secruity around there top players for a start.

The American Media has not Questioned where Jennifer Capriati is, but the rest of the world can point out, and rightly, that us females of the species could of concievably (no pun intended) given birth to two children and have them both off the bottle between tournament wins. Quite Frankly, we could be pregnant for the third time. The American media doesn't have a problem with this. Jennifer's fans and tennis fans over all must...surely.

They also haven't asked about Lindsay, who has managed to garner together one tournament win from 6 or more finals since she has returned. Lindsay is fast becoming a "Solid semi-finalist" and it is a shame to see, but one the American media is quite happy to sit with, alas rubbing off on tennis fans. Surely once again Lindsay fans and Tennis fans must be worried.

Venus? well she is just plodding along as the "Ever the Bridesmaid" and the American media doesn't care about that either. Of course I am sure it would be different if it was a non-american always handing Venus the "Bridesmaid" trophy.

Serena? Well, she is the deserved number 1, no doubt about that, but when she says things that are so outrageous like she is going to go undefeated in 2003 and then the American media jump on the band wagon and believe it and push it as a "fait a compli", then it just compounds the problems even further.

So when Justine defeated Serena last week we seen the American headlines, they were all about how badly Serena played. No where was to be seen was the way Justine actually dismantled Serena (Those who have seen the match will agree) and shook her to the core by rattling of 23 of 26 points. In fact the WTA reported it from 3-3 in the first set. Totally ignored the fact that Serena lead 3-0 and lost 6 games straight.

So the heat was applied by different sections of the media world wide, laughing at America's "Cotton wooling" of there top stars and they responded, with the full backing of the WTA, the only way the American media can:

"Ashley Harkleroad, a future number 1!!"

So what does this all mean?

To me it means the America media are making total fools of themselves and there Tennis stars. They Believe the dominance of American female tennis is complete, the rest of the world saw the cracks long ago and are slowly and defiantely prising them open into gaping holes.

The rest of the world can see a aging Seles/Raymond/Davenport/Capriati.

The rest of the world can see:
A continuing weaking of Venus as her inability to win the "Majors" is slowly but surely lowering down the tennis ladder

The rest of the world can see:
A defiant and sometimes Arrogant world number 1, who is finally finding out what it is like to be hunted and puts her not so dominate form of late down to another "off day"

Maybe she has been reading the "Local" paper too much and actually believes it.

I admire all 4 girls I have discussed here and wish them well, but there is a defiante weakening in the grip of Americans on the game, maybe the Media should be asking questions now and not in 2 years time. By then they maybe asking where America's next Top 50 player is coming from.

Now how does all this tie in with the Thread title?

Beats me, as far as the rest of the world and it's players can see, the American Media and The WTA are the same outfit.
in American, i think we take it to our own consideration to talk about what needs to be talked about. you must realize, that people get paid to talk about certain things, and certain things do good in the media, others are not that particular. Also realize, in USA, we are the Main Country. We have the most sports, we are the most dominant or whatever you want to call it. Serena/Venus are more important right now, than how say the Lakers faired last week. But Linday or Jennifer and how they are doing, are like number 50 on the list. There are other things that need to be covered, and when 1 is more popular than the other, the other fades, and really isn't that big of a deal. Another thing, when you talk about justine serena match, i know you all don't like to take anything away from the players. but in those 23 of 26 points, watching and takin stats, Serena hit 19 errors. So I really honesntly can't call that dimantiling. If you could really point it out to me, and show where justine has done that, maybe you would make more sense, but right now you do not. I also believe, justine hit 1 winner in that span, and it was on that second serve return for set point. Again you people on this board try to avoid the obvious with certain things :rolleye:

About hyping up Ahsley? This is American, i don't know about you all, but in American we hype up our own, when they have good week (even though it seems she was given a lot of help) we do this.

When Kim/Jusitne where coming up, did belgium not stand behind them. I mean, where is the wrong in saying they could be a future number 1. And behind those statements where question marks, meaning could it happen, not meaning its going to happen.

You talk about a lot of good points, but then again you bring out all the negative no positive, and you seem to like to avoid a lot of things. And again those thigns are the obvious. You can make good points, but when you make them can you back them up? You tried, but at the same time, again you tried to ignore/avoid certain truths.

Others, Serena finally realizing she is being hunted? There you are wrong again, i believe when Serena got numbe 1 after wimbledon, she stated she is wanting to say there, but will be hard b/c she is going from being the hunter to being the hunted. She realizes it, but you fail to want to acknoledge the facts, or maybe you didn't know she has said this over and over again? Venus fading? She 1 has done better than the entire wta tour w/ the exception of Serena over the past 2 years. She has been in slam finals, loosing to Serena. With all that said, venus and serena also won the most titles last year, so they weren't just peaking in the slams. The fading question should be, is the WTA fading, the tour, b/c right now it has become the Williams Tour. They are winning, and even though one is being the dominant over the other, the other is being just as dominant over the entire tour w/ the exception of little sis.

America making total fools of its tennis stars? Here I say this to you, I don't think they are giving these people all this money for endoursements, commercials, magazine covers, ads, etc....b/c they are fools. Right now Venus/Serena are nearly the top sports idols right now, they are being treated very well. But again, tennis is not the only sport in America, we cover Golf, NBA, NHL, Baseball, WNBA, Hockey, NCAA BBall mens and womens, unlike say Belgium or Australia or Europe, they don't have this many things to also talk about etc...

It doesnt say where you are from, but when you have a country like America, 1 we are all for equality, we don't just talk about 1 thing and that is the end. We talk about he most interesting, and most popular.

SerenaSlam
Apr 16th, 2003, 10:50 PM
also their ailing bodies, that is Venus and Serena? Where are they ailing? I believe Lindsay/Seles/Jen over the last couple of years have been more injury prone than venus and serena. and the funnie thing is, with them continuting to dominant they are loosing interest b/c over time you get tired of playing your sisters and having to either loose or win, and you want more challenges. Venus and Serena are the best atheltes for any sport we have seen for a while. they could last another 10 years if they wanted to, keeping in shape and all.

caseyl45
Apr 16th, 2003, 10:54 PM
A few years ago, there was an article in Tennis magazine about this. At the time, Lindsay Davenport was the only American-born woman in the top ten, and the Williams sisters had yet to assert themselves on tour. The title of the article was "Why U.S. Women Face Future Shock," and Peter Bodo, the author, claimed just what you're trying to claim, Picol -- that U.S. women's tennis was on the decline, and that it would never pick up again. That was in March of 1996. Six years later, in their U.S. Open Preview issue, the same magazine wrote that this was one of the greatest American tennis generations, featuring Monica Seles, both Williams sisters, and Davenport.
So what's my point? I guess it's that even though there don't seem to be any legendary American prospects out there right now, that doesn't mean they won't show up. Look at what happened with U.S. men's tennis. Just four or five years ago, people were worrying about who would replace Agassi, Sampras, etc., and now that new generation is starting to establish itself. Just because there's only one American teenager in the top 100 now doesn't mean that three or four (or more) other prospects won't come along in the next two or three years.
By the way, two months after that article came out, there was an interesting reaction to it in the Letters to the Editor section, standing up for the state of U.S. women's tennis. So who was the author of that letter? It was Lindsay Davenport, and I don't need to tell you what Davenport did later that year.

PhoenixStorm
Apr 17th, 2003, 01:07 AM
Is this picol person serious? I mean like someone else said NOONE knows the future. Anything can happen. Anyone can show up and hit the radar screen and make a splash. Also as for the here and now don't ALL THE AMERICAN WOMEN HOLD A CAREER EDGE OVER the other top ten girls?

That pretty dominant in my mind.

And like serenaslam said dismantling someone means you are hitting winners not waiting for them to miss or hit an error. If someone is hitting erorrs they are dismantling themselves.

When justine can actually go out there and win by hitting WINNERS then I will say she dismantled someone. That goes for anyone.

Of course you are so biased that you probably don't see it that way

Simplify
Apr 17th, 2003, 04:10 AM
Well, you can say ANYTHING you want about the future because it's full of uncertainty. It's all a bunch of speculation, guessing and predictions. Now the present, that's a little tricky because it's ALL FACT!!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Regardless of your INTERPRETATION of it, things are the way they are. So, as things stand RIGHT NOW the U.S. women are doing a DAMN GOOD job!

By the way, which country will replace the U.S.?