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View Full Version : Us Open 1999- Presnet= Williams Era (Stats) Compared To Hingis/Davenport, Graf/Seles


CJ07
Apr 15th, 2003, 08:16 PM
I was just wondering how well the W/S Have Actually Been Dominating, Well Here You Go:

339 Wins
47 Losses
88% Win Percentage
9 Slams, 41 Titles

Comparing this to Eras Before It Is Interesting (Although Not Quite Accurate as the Williams Era is still in its infancy)

Hingis-Davenport Era
1997-Us Open 1999

402 Wins
72 Losses
84% Win Percentage
7 Slams, 43 Titles

Graf-Seles Era
1990-1997
717-66*
92% Win Percentage
21 Slams, 95 Titles
(Going any further back is kinda unfair)

Veeery interesting indeed

Even though their dominance has just started, they're almost half way to Monica and Steffi!

coolio
Apr 15th, 2003, 08:18 PM
geeeeeeeez
another one? :rolleyes:

SerenaSlam
Apr 15th, 2003, 08:49 PM
some fans hate to see this, they will come up with some type of excuse on why this really isn't acurate. You know the funnie thing, we all know, that if Venus and Serena "really wanted back then to be in the books" they would probably have over 15 slams right now, and around 60 titles all together. They have hingis/davenport beat, and played more than half the time less than them. And another thing, hingis/lindsay are only a couple slams and tournies off, and both combines have been out for at least 8 months each at one time.

WtaTour4Ever
Apr 15th, 2003, 09:18 PM
Whats wrong with what the stats say?

CJ07
Apr 15th, 2003, 09:24 PM
Whats wrong with what the stats say?
updated

nothing, people just cant help the truth!

i'm suprised there isnt more anti-williams rhetoric, people usually jump at the chance

Rollo
Apr 15th, 2003, 10:11 PM
I have no problem saying the sisters combined are stronger than Davenport-Hingis combined, but your comparison to Graf and Seles is misleading. Cutting out 10 of Steffi's slams is "kinda unfair" to Steffi:)

Serena (or Venus if she bounces back) have yet to reach Seles' level of dominance, let alone Graf's.

Ryan
Apr 15th, 2003, 11:06 PM
Sorry, 5+3=8. :)

CJ07
Apr 15th, 2003, 11:06 PM
I have no problem saying the sisters combined are stronger than Davenport-Hingis combined, but your comparison to Graf and Seles is misleading. Cutting out 10 of Steffi's slams is "kinda unfair" to Steffi:)

Serena (or Venus if she bounces back) have yet to reach Seles' level of dominance, let alone Graf's.
well the rest of Grafs slams came during the Graf-Navratilova era or the Hingis/Davenport era


and the former is kinda pushing it

Robbie.
Apr 15th, 2003, 11:31 PM
The Hingis/Davenport Era was until Australian Open 2000 and probably a bit after. It is a bit misleading to leave out one of Lindsay's Grand Slam titles, is it not? I mean those two were appearing in every final at that stage - Philadelphia, Chase Champs, Indian Wells, Scottsdale, Miami and AO. Maybe the era's overlapped but quite clearly, even though Serena had won her first slam by then, this was still part of the Hingis-Davenport Era. IMO The Williams Era did not start until Wimby 2000, when first Venus Dominated and then Serena dominated. Even in this case, the domination we have seen now has only been happening for a year. Remember Jenn won three of 5 slams during the "Williams Era".

Nevertheless, what amazing statistics for the williams' :eek:

CJ07
Apr 15th, 2003, 11:36 PM
The Hingis/Davenport Era was until Australian Open 2000 and probably a bit after. It is a bit misleading to leave out one of Lindsay's Grand Slam titles, is it not? I mean those two were appearing in every final at that stage - Philadelphia, Chase Champs, Indian Wells, Scottsdale, Miami and AO. Maybe the era's overlapped but quite clearly, even though Serena had won her first slam by then, this was still part of the Hingis-Davenport Era. IMO The Williams Era did not start until Wimby 2000, when first Venus Dominated and then Serena dominated. Even in this case, the domination we have seen now has only been happening for a year. Remember Jenn won three of 5 slams during the "Williams Era".

Nevertheless, what amazing statistics for the williams' :eek:
You Have a point, but Davenport didnt really become a huge huge huge factor till 1998

so yeah there are some overlapping

but if you did it that way, the percentage of wins would be much much higher
as venus had only 1 loss after Wimbledon

Rollo
Apr 15th, 2003, 11:45 PM
Perhaps an equal amount of time per era would be a better point of comparison MacDonald. I found nothing to object to until you cut Steffi's slams-after all if Serena wins more slams later will you cut Serena's 1999 Us Open slam because it belongs to "another era"? ;)

Robbie.
Apr 15th, 2003, 11:53 PM
You Have a point, but Davenport didnt really become a huge huge huge factor till 1998

But isn't this a two player kind of tag team effort? I mean in the Davenport-Hingis partnership, Martina Dominated in 1997-Mid 1998 (winning 4 slams from 7) then Lindsay Dominated from US Open 1998-Australian Open 2000 (Winning 3 slams from 6).

The same can be said of the Williams sisters. Venus Dominated winning 4 of 6 slams between Wimby 2000-US Open 2001. Then Serena Dominated winning 4 slams from RG 2002-Aus Open 2001. You could say that Serena, despite her GS title, didn't become a huge factor until this time last year.

In both the era's one player dominated first then the second player dominated, but the other player was still appearing all the finals. This is even true of the Seles/Graf era truth be told.


but if you did it that way, the percentage of wins would be much much higher
as venus had only 1 loss after Wimbledon

Well I think that would be a more accurate reflection of the dominance of their era. I mean was it really Williams domination in early 2000 when Serena was losing to Likhovtseva, and Venus was losing to Amanda Coetzer and Sanchez Vicario while Martina and Lindsay fought out all the big finals?

CJ07
Apr 15th, 2003, 11:59 PM
hmm, you have a point, I gues Williams Domination didnt really happen till Wimbledon 2000-Present
and the reason, again Steffis slams are cut off because those slams werent part of that partner ship

So i guess Martina-Lindsay would continue on untill Wimbledon

I'd update the data, but I'm too damn lazy :)

barmaid
Apr 16th, 2003, 01:25 AM
I'd update the data, but I'm too damn lazy :)[/QUOTE]







Yeah! Throw them up in the air again...until you really inflate them until you're satisfied!! :confused: :eek: :mad:


barmaid :wavey:

CJ07
Apr 16th, 2003, 01:29 AM
I'd update the data, but I'm too damn lazy :)







Yeah! Throw them up in the air again...until you really inflate them until you're satisfied!! :confused: :eek: :mad:


barmaid :wavey:[/QUOTE]
??

fammmmedspin
Apr 16th, 2003, 01:58 AM
The point about how very difficult the Williams sisters are to beat is obviously valid. Its interesting to note how many fewer matches they played per year than Lindsay/Martina too. Comparing their playing rate and tournament winning rate with Steffi's would be interesting - though you would have to allow for there being 2 Williams sisters and probably allow for Steffi's ailing back, knees, wrists somehow and Williams tendonitis time-outs too.
The dislike of the sisters of playing each other though may distort the figures as they both can score wins and tournament wins if they rarely meet. Wheras if, as I suspect, Martina and Lindsay actually played each other more, each of their meetings will turn up as an inevitable loss in the win- loss ratio. Don't know if this is true but it may be. It certainly is true that Monica was unavailable for much of the Graf/Seles period either to run up losses or to deny Graf wins which helps boost that period's win-loss score.
The problem with the eras though is when you start and end them. Martina and Lindsay both, for example, have better stats for years after 1999 than they do in 1999. It doesn't move the percentages much but it will move them.

Rollo
Apr 16th, 2003, 03:29 AM
Good post Fammmmedspin-it's no coincidence IMO that the multiple slam champs with "legs" pace themselves by entering a minimum number of events.

bandabou
Apr 17th, 2003, 12:25 PM
Interesting, interesting and to think that this is just the beginning!! When they are finished they could easily rank up there with Graf/ Seles domination!!