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View Full Version : Players that can trouble Serena


Glenn
Apr 14th, 2003, 02:28 PM
I don't know about you guys but I see a pattern in Serena's (few) losses.

She never loses to big flat hitters like her big sister, Davenport, Capriati or anyone else recently.

Serena's 2001, 2002 and 2003 losses:
(in blue are the hardhitters, in red are the technicians, in green are the retrievers.)

lost to Martina Hingis 4-6 5-7
lost to Martina Hingis 2-6 6-3 6-8
lost to Jennifer Capriati 1-6 6-7
lost to Jennifer Capriati 2-6 7-5 2-6
lost to Jennifer Capriati 7-6 5-7 3-6
lost to Monica Seles 2-6 6-3 6-7
lost to Venus Williams 2-6 4-6

lost to Patty Schnyder 6-2 4-6 5-7
lost to Justine Henin-Hardenne 2-6 6-1 6-7
lost to Chanda Rubin 2-6 6-4 5-7
lost to Kim Clijsters 5-7 3-6

lost to Justine Henin-Hardenne 3-6 4-6

What you can see is that she used to lose to Martina Hingis and Jennifer Capriati a lot, but off recent, the blue players don't seem to hurt her anymore.
She also has problems against Anca Barna, maybe the other players should note that and do something with it like Justine did yesterday, MIX IT UP! MAKE HER WORK FOR HER POINTS!

selesfan
Apr 14th, 2003, 02:32 PM
Jen is a flat big hitter but I agree with you, she usually has a hard time with players that have a lot of variety. That is why poor Lindsay has a hard time beating her because she hits the ball hard and flat.

bandabou
Apr 14th, 2003, 02:32 PM
Yeah, she has trouble with people who can bring the ball back and mix it up. But that usually only works on the tournaments OUTSIDE of the slams. She only lost twice at the slams against players on the list. Hingis and Jen in 2001..when the slams arrive it's a different ball game for Serena.

Leena
Apr 14th, 2003, 02:35 PM
She also has problems against Anca Barna, maybe the other players should note that and do something with it like Justine did yesterday, MIX IT UP! MAKE HER WORK FOR HER POINTS!

*watches Lena's game*

*cries because under this logic, Lena will never win point against Serena* :sad:

Glenn
Apr 14th, 2003, 02:36 PM
I think a player just has to be better in the thing that they are best at.
For example: If Lindsay wants to beat Serena, she has to be better in big hitting, but she isn't, neither is Venus or Jennifer, however, Justine, who is more consistent and has the better technique, can bother Serena, not by trying to overpower her, but by forcing her to play that extra ball and making her work for her points, something that Serena is not good at, she doesn't have the patience.

Glenn
Apr 14th, 2003, 02:37 PM
*watches Lena's game*

*cries because under this logic, Lena will never win point against Serena* :sad:

LMAO!
Who knows? I'm not a tennis expert and I'm not trying to be, this just caught my eye. :)
Go Lena! :p

Glenn
Apr 14th, 2003, 03:49 PM
bump :)

Brαm
Apr 14th, 2003, 04:55 PM
You think Rubin is a hardhitter? :confused:

Glenn
Apr 14th, 2003, 04:58 PM
You think Rubin is a hardhitter? :confused:

I was considering putting her under technicians but she's just not like Justine, Martina and Patty...
Would you say she's a retriever?

Mateo Mathieu
Apr 14th, 2003, 04:59 PM
You think Rubin is a hardhitter? :confused:
Definitely no. All craft players can trouble her such as Emilie Loit, Patty Schnyder for example.

Dava
Apr 14th, 2003, 05:06 PM
Venus, Kim, justine, j-Cap, Amelie, Chanda, and Patty, I think are the only ones with the mixed game of power and craft which can trouble Serena, the secret is not to out power her but to slice and dice the ball to her, which has worked for all the above players. Although Jen has not won a match the matches she has lost have been very close so therefore I have included her in my list.

Brαm
Apr 14th, 2003, 05:09 PM
Rubin is just a smart player, good tactics. She's not a powerplayer, that's for sure. She's definitely not as powerful as Kim or Justine.

Btw, does your 1st post include all Serena's losses? Cause I don't see her final loss at the US Open, to Venus.

Glenn
Apr 14th, 2003, 05:19 PM
I put Chanda in green now, because in a way she's similar to Kim... she counterpunches and gets a lot of balls back.

SJW
Apr 14th, 2003, 05:21 PM
i think i must be an idiot cos i think Justine hits pretty hard :confused:

SJW
Apr 14th, 2003, 05:22 PM
and i KNOW kim can strike the hell outta the ball...:confused:

i guess her running overshadows her power :)

Glenn
Apr 14th, 2003, 05:27 PM
Yea Sarah, I know they hit hard, but it's not their main weapon.

SJW
Apr 14th, 2003, 05:29 PM
ohhhhhhhh...........

ok :)

btw im SerenaJWilliams......who is this SARAH? :confused: :p

Glenn
Apr 14th, 2003, 05:38 PM
Oh I'm sorry to have mistaken you for her! :o
It's not a compliment... sorry!

SJW
Apr 14th, 2003, 05:46 PM
Oh I'm sorry to have mistaken you for her! :o
It's not a compliment... sorry!

when u get from the movies........

imma kill u boy :p:p

treufreund
Apr 14th, 2003, 05:48 PM
It was not just about hitting HARD but HARD AND FLAT. Justine and Kim don't hit hard and FLAT. Only player that can trouble Serena with hard and flat is monica and maybe Venus but to beat Serena with this style you just have to be on fire. And then usually it will still be a close match and not one where Serena's technique breaks down. But there is not only one way to beat Serena or any player. I do think that Jennifer, for example, or Venus can add some cheap pts by mixing it up occasionally against Serena. 5 or 6 cheap pts per set based on mixing it up can mean a world of difference.

SJW
Apr 14th, 2003, 05:51 PM
btw she had 5 "losses" last year Glenn

the first was to ur beau Meghann ;)

venus_envy
Apr 14th, 2003, 06:41 PM
Justine proved something that I have been thinking for a while, that Serena can be beaten when you don't play on her terms namely the power game.

As long as you are willing to slug it out and hit the ball over the net low and hard like she likes it, you cannot win. But if you mix it up, keep the ball high and take the pace off of it, she will self destruct.

More than likely other players have watched this match and you can look for more finesse when they play her.

Zenith
Apr 15th, 2003, 12:11 AM
Wow!!! you guys are just incredible :rolleyes: First it was Jennifer, then Kim and now Justine. Why are you people putting so much pressure on Justine. One victory over Serena and suddenly she is the hottest player around. Just be happy that she won the FCC and stop all this stupid talk. I like Justine, therefore I wouldn't want to see her get trampled by Serena or Venus the next time she plays a Williams (just ask Kim) ;) .

DEETHELICK
Apr 15th, 2003, 01:03 AM
Not just any funky shot player is good enough to cause Serena problems.

Fair enough that Conchita had played 2 matches in a day, but Serena did not seem to be troubled by her too much and finished her 6-2 6-2

ts good to have varety, but I still think that power is essentially required to hang with Serena.

Justine is the best blend of power and finesse in the Top 100 (hence the high ranking). She'll always trouble Serena, especially on grass and clay.

Kim, Venus and Lindsay are about equal in my book, they can play all the shots and have defeated Serena before.

Jen is in there purely because she mentally affects Serena like no other at this point in time IMO. Plus her game does cause Serena fits, regard;ess of the 'flatness'

RYN
Apr 15th, 2003, 01:07 AM
I'm sorry, but Justine will only trouble Serena on CLAY! Other than clay its Serena's game. Justine can slice and dice all she wants other than clay it aint gonna work most of the time.

SJW
Apr 15th, 2003, 01:14 AM
NBC: true, cos apart from Clay, when has she ever troubled Serena?

they say clay is the tours best shot, and this result shows the we are better off accepting that :)

i dont mind Justine winning for all of 6 weeks, cos Serena has the potential to do it week in week out :)

BRING ON JUSTINE IN BERLIN I SAY :)

shap_half
Apr 15th, 2003, 01:17 AM
NBC: true, cos apart from Clay, when has she ever troubled Serena?

they say clay is the tours best shot, and this result shows the we are better off accepting that :)

i dont mind Justine winning for all of 6 weeks, cos Serena has the potential to do it week in week out :)

BRING ON JUSTINE IN BERLIN I SAY :)


BRING IT ON, BABY!!!!:):):)

Julian
Apr 15th, 2003, 01:38 AM
Interesting...but anyway as for me I would put Kim, Justine, and Chanda in the area of "Mixing it up" crew. I mean they don't try to blast you away with winners, they add good pace when they need to and only when they have the oppurtunity, plus they are all excellent runners!

But I think counterpunchers and players who can mix things up have good chances in beating Serena. a la Chanda, Justine, and Kim...I noticed in that Serena-Justine match that Justine was mostly just bringing the ball back with fair pace, deep, and in the middle of the court, and Serena was spraying balls everywhere. Sometimes she has trouble with creating the pace. True she beat Conchita fairly easy but they played one match in 1999 and once again in 2000 and Serena had to win in 3 sets in both of them! Also look at some of Serena's tightest matches in her Grand Slam wins...she had to beat Els Callens at Wimbledon in 2 tiebreaks! And Els is an excellent net player, also against Emlie Loit at this years Aussie, she's a player who mixes it up as well...

faboozadoo15
Apr 15th, 2003, 01:42 AM
no one thinks monica??? monica knows how to exploit weaknesses and has a bitchin return. i think she would (and does) worry serena a hell of a lot more than some of these players listed. when monica is on, she is seeing the lines, and serena knows how tough that can be... look at their past matches!

Julian
Apr 15th, 2003, 01:43 AM
True we forgot Monica but everyone knows she's a threat to everybody anyway when she's on ;)

LeonHart
Apr 15th, 2003, 02:16 AM
You can't compete with Serena in a ball-pounding match. Mixing it up often makes Serena make the UEs from what I've seen Ex. Loit in Australia and Henin in FCC.

Leena
Apr 15th, 2003, 02:20 AM
I think Serena can be defeated in a "power", "ball-pounding" match. Just hope she makes a lot of errors doing it... or pray you hit a lot of lines.