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TeeRexx
Mar 17th, 2003, 08:20 PM
March 17, 2003
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http://www.latimes.com/sports/tennis/la-sp-dwyre17mar17,1,5466006.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2 Dsports%2Dtennis
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Sisters Should Forgive, Forget


By Bill Dwyre, Times Staff Writer


It is a tennis tournament of international stature now. There are few naysayers left.

The great players come not only because of rules and money, but because they want to. Sunday's finals that matched Lindsay Davenport and Kim Clijsters, followed by Gustavo Kuerten and Lleyton Hewitt, would be any organizer's dream.

The facility is world class, just as dreamer/tournament director Charlie Pasarell envisioned a few years ago, when he surprised people in tennis by announcing he was upgrading from his facility at the Hyatt Grand Champions. Most people thought that was tough to improve upon, but Pasarell did just that. By leaps and bounds.

People buy tickets, even with prices that prompt consideration of third mortgages. It is on people's calendars, part of their entertainment budget. It is a nice place to be and to be seen, the latter always a factor in any Southern California sports attendance.

The most recent sponsor, Pacific Life, has stuck around for a few years and is starting to get the kind of mileage from its investment it expects. At least some people now think, and speak, of this as the Pacific Life Open, not the Indian Wells tennis tournament. And that becomes more the case the longer Pacific Life keeps writing big checks.

If you feel a "but" coming up here, you are right.

But the Williams sisters aren't here.

Again. With no change of heart in sight.

So does that make this a tennis tournament of international stature, but with an asterisk?

At the moment, yes.

Here's a review of why the Williamses -- the biggest names, draws, stars, attractions, symbols of the current game -- are not here, nor were here last year:

Venus defaulted to Serena literally minutes before their semifinal match two years ago. That was back when any match between them was a huge attraction for a number of reasons, including that they were terrific players. But there was also the element of intrigue over how hard they really played against each other. Was there some arranging before the match for one or the other to win? Were some wins by one or the other timed to benefit an upcoming shoe deal, or to benefit one's ranking when the other wasn't in as much need of points? Or did they just decide to take turns.

Since then, of course, they have played good matches in the finals of the last four Grand Slam events -- Serena winning all -- and the theory of tanked matches seems old hat.

But flash back to Indian Wells 2001 and things weren't quite so clear. When it was perceived that Venus had merely stepped aside to get Serena into the final, a public that had spent lots of money to get into a packed stadium to watch the sisters play was angry.

And good for them. The public too often gets ripped off by cheap team management or under-performing athletes.

Venus didn't help things by grudgingly sauntering into a news conference to explain her tendinitis injury and acting like somebody who didn't really want to be bothered. Newspaper stories, one by yours truly, fanned the flames. Nor was ESPN all that quiet in its anger at being stiffed just minutes before telecast time, on a match it had promoted well. Matter of fact, the only people really taking the high road were the main people running this tournament, Pasarell, Raymond Moore, Steve Simon and Dede Felich.

But there was no stopping the avalanche. Serena walked onto the court with Clijsters and the boos rang down. Those who have watched tennis for years had never seen anything like it. Even when tennis fans dressed in $400 Fila warmup suits rioted during the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta because Andre Agassi had been moved to a side court for a doubles match, there was not as much emotional outpouring as there was in the Indian Wells Garden that day, amid the palm trees and opulence of the Southern California desert.

The booing continued through much of the first set, but Serena gathered herself, won the final two sets and the tournament, handled herself beautifully when handed the microphone afterward and walked out of the stadium, never to be seen again in these parts.

The issue became publicly racial the next week, when USA Today quoted Richard Williams, the girls' father, as saying that the "n" word was used by people around him during the match. There is no way of verifying that, but Paul Netter, a member of The Times sports staff, who was there to watch and was sitting near Richard, said he never heard anything like that. Netter is black.

The issue was financial. People paid a lot of money to buy tickets and expected to see what they paid for -- Venus vs. Serena. And it was fair play. If there is reasonable perception that somebody is faking an injury, should not that behavior warrant some boos?

The perception that anything racial was going on is especially ironic, since the main driving force in this event, Pasarell, is not only a minority himself, but played tennis at UCLA with Arthur Ashe, shared the No. 1 spot on the team and was one of the people closest to Ashe to the day he died. There is no clearer symbol of equality in sports than Ashe and few more aware of that than Pasarell.

Make no mistake. The Williams sisters are still angry about what happened here. And make no mistake. The tournament organizers have made efforts to sit down and talk, to meet somewhere, anywhere.

Make no mistake about something else. This has gone on too long. And for a reason more significant than Venus and Serena -- or perhaps parents Richard and Oracene -- may be thinking about.

The reason isn't any cliche, like what they are doing is bad for tennis. Or that they owe Pasarell anything.

No, the key reason was pointed out early in this event, on one of those balmy afternoons with the sun warm and the sky blue and perhaps 3,000 people watching as a couple of world-class players went at it on the court below. Looking down on the scene was veteran writer Jerry Magee of the San Diego Union Tribune, who will be 75 next month and who has covered a great deal of tennis and clearly understands the American sports landscape.

"So what's wrong with this picture?" Magee asked.

One quick perusal of the crowd brought the answer: Almost no black faces in the stands.

"Wasn't like that when the Williams sister played here," Magee said.

The ball bounces back to Venus and Serena, and to Richard and Oracene.

Is not part of what they are proudest of in their incredible success in women's tennis that the audience for a once mostly rich and white fan base has become more diverse?

Is it not still a priority, a goal, a source of incredible pride, to get some more black faces back in the seats everywhere they play, as well as in the desert?

Isn't that the best reason for the Williams sisters to get over it?
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Man, some of these people just don't want to try and understand VENUS & SERENA. So Richard & VENUS were lying when they said they were called n***ers by some in the crowd.

The TV ratings are down, the crowd levels are lower, the diversity of the crowds is now back to nearly all white, the sponsors have to be getting a little ansie because the ratings for Kim and Big Davey had to be an all time low.

No, the ball is not in the WILLIAMS court, it is still in the court of the IW promoters and the WTA to let it go and learn to live without the WILLIAMS as they have apparently learned to live without them.

calabar
Mar 17th, 2003, 08:38 PM
Unless, I'm missing something, aren't ALL players have the right to pick and choose which tournament (including Slams) to play or NOT PLAY?

Where the hell is it written that the Williams Sisters or any other player(s) are REQUIRED to play in certain events. Prior to this year, Capriatti did not play IW for several years and the media did not harp on the fact that the ball was in her court. So why the hell is the ball now in V&S court as far as going back to that place? As a huge fan of the Sisters, I strongly support there decision to return or NOT to return, but I am getting sick of this bullshit argument that somehow, the Sisters are suppose to "take the high road" and go back. Why?

TheY obviously DO NOT NEED IW FOR ANY REASON. Not for the points, not for the money, not for the publicity. And besides, there are many other tournaments that the Sisters (AND OTHER PLAYERS) do not play for whatever reasons. For the life of me I cannot understand why the media refuse to let IW and the Williamses go there separate ways AND MOVE ON!!!

Cariaoke
Mar 17th, 2003, 08:41 PM
All of this begging is getting ridiculous! They don't want to play there and seem quite happy taking it easy for two weeks.

I'm so glad Vee and Ree are strong women who don't cave into pressure because they seek validation from no one. All of these articles do piss me off, though. Shouldn't these 'writers' be writing about the people who actually play there? :fiery: I'd be quite pissed if I played IW and everyone focused on why the top two players aren't there.

kiwifan
Mar 17th, 2003, 08:41 PM
Yeah, uh, whatever.
:rolleyes:

I love that they're still not playing, it gives the rest of the hater tennis world what it seems to be dying for...

...a Williams free tournament.

Why not just enjoy it.

While Williams supporters can enjoy the ones that really matter, THE SLAMS!!!

ys
Mar 17th, 2003, 08:44 PM
In opposite, I think that's the williamses who desperately want to get back to this wonderful tournamen, but no one offers them a face-saving solution and they won't concede that they had three years of silly fighting against a ghost.. It is completely up to them.

But I do think that by the time of the next IW this problem might lose its actualite. The sisters won't be as dominant as they are now by then.

And indeed, why should tournament care that there is "no black faces in the stands", as long as there are other paying customers..

brunof
Mar 17th, 2003, 08:44 PM
Yes, whatever. Personally I would rather not see them at Indians Wells ever...

TeeRexx
Mar 17th, 2003, 08:46 PM
Kiwi/Calabar/Cari - All of you seem to have hit the nails on the head.
Some people are so sick of seeing the WILLIAMS play, but when they don't show, neither does the interest or the money shows either it seems.

TeeRexx
Mar 17th, 2003, 08:52 PM
YS/Brun - It is white faces like yours in the crowd that caused the problems and are the kind that they need to eliminate from these events.

Apparently they wished to have those black faces and their money at their desert event.

persond
Mar 17th, 2003, 08:57 PM
:cool: I guess the people of Indian Wells think they can "piss on the Williamses and call it RAIN!" They should just move on as the Sisters have done, already. Indian Wells doesn't need the Williamses and the Williamses don't need Indian Wells, thank God.!!!

Please, let Indian Wells die, once and for all!!!

maccardel
Mar 17th, 2003, 09:00 PM
Personally I would like to see Miami upgraded to grand slam status and Indian Wells degraded to a warm up fo rthat tourney...simply put.

Pureracket
Mar 17th, 2003, 09:08 PM
In opposite, I think that's the williamses who desperately want to get back to this wonderful tournamen, but no one offers them a face-saving solution and they won't concede that they had three years of silly fighting against a ghost.. It is completely up to them.

Um. . . I don't see how you could say that it's the Williams sisters who are desparately trying to get back to this tournament. They are not the ones printing articles about their desire to play. Also, they've skipped this tournament and are still the #1 and #2 players in the world. The objects that they are fighting against very well may have white sheets, but I seriously doubt that they are "ghosts".


But I do think that by the time of the next IW this problem might lose its actualite. The sisters won't be as dominant as they are now by then.

I'm not sure what you mean by "dominant". These ladies can be ranked in the lower 20s and still fill seats with spectators.

And indeed, why should tournament care that there is "no black faces in the stands", as long as there are other paying customers..

Maybe they are thinking about the longrun and longevity of the tournament. Maybe they are thinking that a diverse crowd would bring in a plethora of sponsorship. I don't know. . . .maybe they are thinking that diverse crowd may inspire a more diverse attraction to the USTA. Who knows? Maybe they could actually want a closer sampling of the United State of America in their seats.

brunof
Mar 17th, 2003, 09:12 PM
TeeRexx - I don't understand you, explain further...

brunof
Mar 17th, 2003, 09:18 PM
TeeRexx - All I am saying is the Williams' don't make make tournaments. I truly believe they have set a new standard win women's tennis, but because they are absent from a tournament doesn't make it less of a draw for me, and I'm sure many other fans. Granted, they win a lot of tournaments, but but it is also nice to see players like Kim or Hantuchova win bigger tiered events such as IW. I personally like to see the underdog win.

I also do not care for your self-rightous attitude on this board. You do not know me, and have no right to correct me for my opinion. I am not a '"white face", I am Asian. You claim racism, but yet you are also generalizing that YS and I are white... :rolleyes: :fiery:

Cybelle Darkholme
Mar 17th, 2003, 09:30 PM
TeeRexx - All I am saying is the Williams' don't make make tournaments. I truly believe they have set a new standard win women's tennis, but because they are absent from a tournament doesn't make it less of a draw for me, and I'm sure many other fans. Granted, they win a lot of tournaments, but but it is also nice to see players like Kim or Hantuchova win bigger tiered events such as IW. I personally like to see the underdog win.

I also do not care for your self-rightous attitude on this board. You do not know me, and have no right to correct me for my opinion. I am not a '"white face", I am Asian. You claim racism, but yet you are also generalizing that YS and I are white... :rolleyes: :fiery:


What world are you living in? Kim was not the underdog during IW! She was the number one seed! So really if you wanted to see an underdog win maybe you should have been rooting for a qualifier or at least someone other than the number one seed.

Kim and the gang are TOP TEN players they are the BEST in the world and should never be considered an underdog unless facing a higher ranked opponent which she clearly did not do.

Venus Forever
Mar 17th, 2003, 09:34 PM
I honestly would love to see the Williams go back there. Sorry, but I don't believe all the things Richard says, espcially about being called the "n" word. I can see a few people saying it, but that's about it.

Plus, it's not the tournaments fault for the how the crowd reacted, and they shouldn't be punished because of it.

And at this time, there was a big speculation over match fixing, which is totally ridiculous, and you could understand some of the reaction. But they did go a little overboard with the dramatics.

I think the fans have probably learned from this and now see how good they are, and that there isn't match fixing, otherwise Venus would have one at least one of the past four slams.

Just my take.;)

Iroda_Fan
Mar 17th, 2003, 09:35 PM
I was at the Tournament and it seems to go smoothly as ever. I don't get if Serena and Venus don't want to play there, Let's Just move on then. And i wouldn't say Indian Wells needs the williams sisters they need Kournikova. While i was there every five minutes when someone would see a white, blond hair girl they would say "it's that kournikova???" or "it's that Anna". It got so lame that everybody was looking for anna, didn't they know that she withdrew from the tournament.

TeeRexx
Mar 17th, 2003, 09:36 PM
Brunof - Maybe i shouldn't have called you white and just went straight to narrow minded bigot, that way other whites and asians will not be insulted by having you associated with them.

The tone and tenor of your history of posts has clearly placed you in a small minority of people who clearly are not open to real diversity in society.

If I appear selfrightous to you it is probably only because I base people on their character and not their race or ethnicity.

WtaTour4Ever
Mar 17th, 2003, 09:37 PM
Whats funny is how the WS seem fine with this, the Tourny seems fine with this, and most fans on either side of the issue seem fine with this, but every other day there is another article about the issue......guess there is nothing exciting to write about.

ys
Mar 17th, 2003, 09:41 PM
You claim racism, but yet you are also generalizing that YS and I are white.

Take it easy..

The ratio between weight if brain and body is 1:40 for humans, 1:320 for gorillas, 1:550 for lions.. Wanna know the number for Tyrannosaurus Rex?

wongqks
Mar 17th, 2003, 10:03 PM
Brunof - Maybe i shouldn't have called you white and just went straight to narrow minded bigot, that way other whites and asians will not be insulted by having you associated with them.

The tone and tenor of your history of posts has clearly placed you in a small minority of people who clearly are not open to real diversity in society.

If I appear selfrightous to you it is probably only because I base people on their character and not their race or ethnicity.

These are big words from you Tee Rexx

Brunof comment is no more worst than your virtual abuse of all the white players you have done in the past. If you think that he is a racist, what does that make you against whites :rolleyes:

And yes, you are lucky that the search button in the wtaworld is not working, or I can assure you that I can dig out much worst comments from you than what brunof say, not to mean that brunof say anything bad.

What is wrong with saying that he got bored of watching Williams. I don't like watching Anna Pistolesi play, does that makes me an Isralie hater. You seems to have a dig at Jenn all the time, does that means that you are an white american hater? Jeez, can some sense will you.

And yes, you will be firing some insults at me now, but I don't care less, I enter this thread becuase I cannot stand someone as nice as brunof who do not want to stand up to you, to let you accused him of something which he has not done, bye, this is the end of me in this thread

Venere e Davide
Mar 17th, 2003, 10:20 PM
WtaTour4Ever: My sentiments exactly! If everybody is fine with the situation why the constant harping? Could it be that the sportswriters are bored to tears?
Personally if at some later date Vee and Ree decide to return I can live with that. If on the other they NEVER return it's fine with me. It's their call!

harloo
Mar 17th, 2003, 11:04 PM
Damn, the williams had nothing to do with Indian Wells, and they still are the main focus of the tournamnent. The commentators can't shut up about them, and so many articles about them.

They all should let it go, and focus on the other players because they need all the hype they can get. I just find this to be too funny.LOL What people should do is let the other girls have their time, and move on completely.

maccardel
Mar 17th, 2003, 11:13 PM
Everyone is forgetting about the fact that only a day before the withdrawal, Elena Dementieva was asked who she thinks will win and she replied that the father decides the winner.....now as fate will put it Venus withdrew and the crowd got on the Williamses.....


the WTA never apologized for the statement from one of its players and never acknowledged that the statement played into fans feelings afterall this was coming from one of the players who represent the tour and is supposed to be in the "know"...

It's not the tournaments' fault and the Williamses' fault completely but the responsibility also rests on the tour itself. I feel that the tour has yet to acknowledge this mistake.

venusfan
Mar 17th, 2003, 11:16 PM
well, ever since the Williams sisters stopped playing Indian Wells, I've stopped watching that tournament and could care less who wins it each year. I'm sure the other players are happy knowing that they have a chance to win a big tournament.

leslie
Mar 17th, 2003, 11:25 PM
Brunof - Maybe i shouldn't have called you white and just went straight to narrow minded bigot, that way other whites and asians will not be insulted by having you associated with them.

The tone and tenor of your history of posts has clearly placed you in a small minority of people who clearly are not open to real diversity in society.

If I appear selfrightous to you it is probably only because I base people on their character and not their race or ethnicity.

TeeRexx, Brunof is a narrow minded bigot, little does he/she knows that he/she is considered a minority also, but I bet when you ask him/her nationality on an application he/she probably put "white." If Ai was in Venus or Serena's position with what happened at IW what would he/she say. Ofcourse, she never will be.

leslie
Mar 17th, 2003, 11:27 PM
Whats funny is how the WS seem fine with this, the Tourny seems fine with this, and most fans on either side of the issue seem fine with this, but every other day there is another article about the issue......guess there is nothing exciting to write about.

Apparently the tourny is not fine with it. I know V/S is fine with it.

Infiniti2001
Mar 17th, 2003, 11:55 PM
Hey ys, did you read this article?? :rolleyes:


Clijsters gets shot at missed glory in Davenport final

By Jerry Magee
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
March 15, 2003
INDIAN WELLS Through no fault of hers, Kim Clijsters' last appearance in a Pacific Life Open final was an unnerving experience that she has sought to put out of her mind.
"It had never happened to me before," Clijsters said yesterday of what occurred here in 2001. "It was something I did not expect. You sort of forget about it when it is over."
Clijsters returned to the final yesterday with a 6-3, 6-2 conquest of Conchita Martinez. About noon tomorrow, she is to play for the $332,000 first prize against Lindsay Davenport. In a match of surpassing quality, Davenport late last night completed a 6-4, 4-6, 6-4 triumph over Jennifer Capriati.
The victory for Davenport was her eighth in 10 matches against Capriati. The winner, finding both depth and accuracy with her strokes, delivered 50 winners to Capriati's 23.
Capriati called for an injury timeout before the final game in the 2-hour and 1-minute duel to have her left leg taped. Davenport trailed 0-30 in this game, but she won four straight points, the last when Capriati overhit a forehand service return.
The situation here two years ago was this: It should have been a heady moment for Clijsters, then 17. In the tournament's semifinals, she had defeated Martina Hingis. But at the 11th hour, Venus Williams withdrew from a scheduled match against her sister Serena in the other semifinal, citing tendinitis in a knee.
Venus' action disappointed a crowd that had gathered in the expection of seeing a Venus-Serena match. The next day, Serena was heckled while defeating Clijsters. Neither of the Williams sisters has played here since.
Tournament chairman Charlie Pasarell said he continues to be hopeful that the sisters will choose to return to the Tennis Garden of Indian Wells.
"It's important to me," Pasarell said. "We want to have them play here. When I'm walking around the grounds, 50 percent of the questions I get are, 'When are the Williamses coming back?'
"We all have to get over it. They do. We do. I would like to have a conversation with them. They never said, 'We're never coming back.' But is itgoing to kill our tournament if we don't have them? No."
Clijsters was superb against Martinez, not only with her strokes but also with her poise and demeanor. Opposing Martinez can be unsettling. The veteran from Spain moves deliberately from point to point, doing a lot of bouncing of the ball before she serves and otherwise taking her time.
In these circumstances, Clijsters did not have her serve severed, scored on 79 percent of the points when her first delivery was accurate, hit 26 winners (to Martinez's 12) and had just 32 errors (to her rival's 41).
"I knew I had to focus on myself," Clijsters said. "I just tried to hit a few spin balls back and open up the court. You have to stand perfectly for every spin ball she hits. I think that was very important today."
Martinez's triumph was gaining the semifinals in such a gifted field at the age of 30.
"I'm feeling much better about my game than I was at the beginning of the year," said the woman who maintains a home in Cardiff. "I feel I am coming back to the high level I have played all these years. That's not easy when you have played 15 years."
Copyright 2003 Union-Tribune Publishing Co. .

ys
Mar 18th, 2003, 12:00 AM
And the next line, that you didn't bother to make bold? Again, again, trying to pick something out of context..

But is itgoing to kill our tournament if we don't have them? No."

With each year passed, nothing will be happening to tournament, but the women will get older and older and closer to retirement, and then they will be gone, and tournament will stay. And the only result will be that they have deprived their devoted fans from watching them in one of the biggest tourneys of the season for many years..

CJ07
Mar 18th, 2003, 12:09 AM
Why the heck do V&S need to play this tournament!?!?!

That i dont understand

brunof
Mar 18th, 2003, 12:37 AM
Whatever...

Leslie - *Hugs* :rolleyes:

Cybelle Darkholme
Mar 18th, 2003, 12:50 AM
And the next line, that you didn't bother to make bold? Again, again, trying to pick something out of context..

But is itgoing to kill our tournament if we don't have them? No."

With each year passed, nothing will be happening to tournament, but the women will get older and older and closer to retirement, and then they will be gone, and tournament will stay. And the only result will be that they have deprived their devoted fans from watching them in one of the biggest tourneys of the season for many years..


considering you are not one of their devoted fans then how do you know this? Did you ever consider that their devoted fans SUPPORT the sisters if they decide not to play? So one was deprived anything.

TSequoia01
Mar 18th, 2003, 01:10 AM
Sooner or later sanity will prevail. Indian Wells did the Sisters an injustice. An injustice that would have never happened probably to white players. The tournament brass never apologized for the incident which is paramount to siding with the mob acting crowd. If they truly want the Sisters back, then be big enough an admit it was not right. That is all it takes, admit the crowd was wrong. Anything short of that, well kiss the back of Venus and Serena's fronts. :cool:

TeeRexx
Mar 18th, 2003, 02:04 AM
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"considering you are not one of their devoted fans then how do you know this? Did you ever consider that their devoted fans SUPPORT the sisters if they decide not to play? So one was deprived anything."
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Yhou hast said it, buddy. :)

kennethw
Mar 18th, 2003, 02:05 AM
[QUOTE='harloo']Damn, the williams had nothing to do with Indian Wells, and they still are the main focus of the tournamnent. The commentators can't shut up about them, and so many articles about them.

They all should let it go, and focus on the other players because they need all the hype they can get. I just find this to be too funny.LOL What people should do is let the other girls have their time, and move on completely.[/QUOTE this is how you know just how big the williams are. kounikova is big, but not as big as venus or serena. if they retired now, interest will decline so much. they're bigger than tennis. andre agassi comes close. just enjoy them, wont be here forever.

brunof
Mar 18th, 2003, 02:35 AM
The tone and tenor of your history of posts has clearly placed you in a small minority of people who clearly are not open to real diversity in society.

You show me TeeRexx...

LeonHart
Mar 18th, 2003, 02:39 AM
omg, Serena nor Venus HAS to play Indian Wells, and in the long run it'll be their lost not the tournament! But each player has their choice of which tournaments they want to play and which they want to skip!

Philbo
Mar 18th, 2003, 02:42 AM
brunof - Good posts buddy :) lol@"Im asian not white" - jarred tee rex.

ys
Mar 18th, 2003, 02:44 AM
considering you are not one of their devoted fans then how do you know this?

Considering you ARE one of them, how do you know it is not true for those Williams fans who are of sound mind?

TeeRexx
Mar 18th, 2003, 02:47 AM
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"TeeRexx, Brunof is a narrow minded bigot, little does he/she knows that he/she is considered a minority also, but I bet when you ask him/her nationality on an application he/she probably put "white."
-----

Czech - Apparently I am not the only one to see Brunof for what it is.

TS
Mar 18th, 2003, 02:55 AM
Brunof is anything but a bigot...you'll be hard pressed to find a nicer poster on this whole board. (but hey I never expect the likes of Tee Rexx to actually pay attention to someone who can think independently)

LeonHart
Mar 18th, 2003, 02:59 AM
TeeRexx, Brunof is a narrow minded bigot, little does he/she knows that he/she is considered a minority also, but I bet when you ask him/her nationality on an application he/she probably put "white." If Ai was in Venus or Serena's position with what happened at IW what would he/she say. Ofcourse, she never will be.
how ironic is this coming from leslie :o

BigTennisFan
Mar 18th, 2003, 06:32 AM
Everyone is forgetting about the fact that only a day before the withdrawal, Elena Dementieva was asked who she thinks will win and she replied that the father decides the winner.....now as fate will put it Venus withdrew and the crowd got on the Williamses.....

True. But while everybody treated this as gospel, they conveniently ignored the fact that Elena also said that it seemed to her while they were playing that Venus had an injury.

But then again Elena also said that if she was playing at 100% and if Venus was playing at 100% that she (Elena) would win. :D

That kind of shoots her credibility to hell about anything. :devil:

persond
Mar 18th, 2003, 07:23 AM
omg, Serena nor Venus HAS to play Indian Wells, and in the long run it'll be their lost not the tournament! But each player has their choice of which tournaments they want to play and which they want to skip!


:confused: How in "hell" would not playing Indian Wells be the Sisters' "LOSS"????????????????????????

servenrichie
Mar 18th, 2003, 09:58 AM
ys said:
The ratio between weight if brain and body is 1:40 for humans, 1:320 for gorillas, 1:550 for lions.. Wanna know the number for Tyrannosaurus Rex?
It would interest me to know the weight of yours, seeing that you butt in every thread about Venus and Serena (whom by the way you cant stand), to spew off your ignorance and insults.

ys said:
And the only result will be that they have deprived their devoted fans from watching them in one of the biggest tourneys of the season for many years..
You are not a devoted fan, so why are you weeping more than the bereaved?
Shouldnt you concentrate on the "ovas" and channel your energy into supporting them. Maybe one of them can actually become a real tennis player that wins one of these days and not just tits and asses, that could carry tennis racquets.

Volcana
Mar 18th, 2003, 11:25 AM
Neither of them plays Sarasota either, and that's a lot closer home. Their California fans have another Tier I and the Tour Championships and two other Tier II's to see them.

The writer makes one good point though. Charlie Pasarall played with Arthur Ashe. He played in the days when overt racial bigotry from some memebers of tennis crowds was the norm, not the exception. Regardless, of where he stands personally, no tournament organizer has an interest in seeing his tournament associated with those bad old days.

As for Richard, I totally believe him. For what he said to be true, only two or three people out of a crowd of thousands had to be using racial slurs. Given that, its hard not to suspect the motives of those who say they DON'T believe him. What's two or three people? Why is that so hard to believe? Other than it makes Venus and Serena's position seem even more reasonable?

Volcana
Mar 18th, 2003, 01:06 PM
In the United States, Blacks make up the fastest growing segment of the tennis fan base. (Of course, when there aren't many of you to begin with, a relatively incerease equals 'fastest growing'.) For those of you who can forget the circumstances and focus on the economics, consider one part of that article.

Looking down on the scene was veteran writer Jerry Magee of the San Diego Union Tribune, who will be 75 next month and who has covered a great deal of tennis and clearly understands the American sports landscape.

"So what's wrong with this picture?" Magee asked.

One quick perusal of the crowd brought the answer: Almost no black faces in the stands.

"Wasn't like that when the Williams sister played here," Magee said.


ANY business wants to increase their consumer base. If twice as many people want tickets as can get them, you can raise prices, make more money, and put on an even better event next year.

Let's say for every Back person who didn't buy a ticket, a white person replaced them. Let's say every sponsor who left was replaced, and every ad dollar replaced by a dollar fifty.

You've still gone from making significant inroads with the fastest growing portion of the tennis ticket buying population, to basically nothing.

Any of you who work in corporations, ask anyone in Finance what happens if you alienate a significant portion of your consumer base. No one cares about WHY they were alienated. They only care THAT they were alienated, because its the fact of it costs money now, and affects planning down the road. If you have to make 200 phone calls instead of 150 phone calls to line up sponsors, that's time, effort and money you weren't expecting to have to spend two years ago.

doloresc
Mar 18th, 2003, 01:11 PM
the point is moot because the pacific life open is a success without the williams sisters. personally as a fan venus and serena's, i hope they never play in the coachella valley again. charlie pasarell and his tournament don't need the williams sisters and vice versa. indian wells fans of the sisters have to suffer but who ever said life was fair?

gentenaire
Mar 18th, 2003, 01:29 PM
Take it easy..

The ratio between weight if brain and body is 1:40 for humans, 1:320 for gorillas, 1:550 for lions.. Wanna know the number for Tyrannosaurus Rex?


This post deserves to be framed! Too bad I already gave you reputation points.

Pinkie
Mar 18th, 2003, 04:00 PM
Does it really matter whether the n-word was used? No matter how much I'd want to deny it, I can't imagine any white player getting this kind of virulent booing. (Unless they asked for it, like Martine Hingis did with her prima donna turn during that infamous RG final).

If the Williams' wouldn't play this tournament because it just didn't fit in their schedule, this shouldn't be a discussion. But because of the negative history and the serious discussion underlying it (racism), I think it should be a problem that all parties want to have settled.

Amanda
Mar 18th, 2003, 04:50 PM
If Venus or Serena wanted to play this tournament again, they will play...I'm sure the tournament would love to have them. They were still the talk of the town despite their absence from the tournament.The tournament director even addressed this issue. That proves that many there still want to see them play. Venus and Serena are the stars of the tennis world...hands down.

ys--has always had a problem with Venus and Serena. I guess he/she is bitter because Venus and Serena have eclipsed his precious AK both on and off the court. :rolleyes:

ico4498
Mar 18th, 2003, 07:02 PM
After helping to incite IW barbaians, Bill Dwyer champions the cause of the downtrodden WS fans.

Thats some rich irony.

mboyle
Mar 18th, 2003, 07:22 PM
I am admittedly not a fan of the sisters, but what happened to them was unquestionably wrong, and if you go through an uncomfortable experience, no one should expect you to relive it, or be reminded of it again. Just as I support and understand Monica's boycott of German tournaments, I also support the sisters' boycott of Indian Wells. :)

-Matt

barmaid
Mar 18th, 2003, 08:55 PM
As one bird said to the other "THEY "POOPED" :eek: in their nest!


barmaid :wavey:

TeeRexx
Mar 18th, 2003, 10:24 PM
Ico4498 - A very good point. If the event is so damn successful, why bother or care if the WILLIAMS and a few black faces come to their precious tournament?

brunof
Mar 19th, 2003, 01:16 AM
Thanks for the compliments TS! :)

swissfan
Mar 19th, 2003, 03:43 AM
IW doesn't care if the Williams come or not.