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Hewitt225
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:06 AM
Maybe I'm just dumb or I'm not thinking, but how come you never hear of a russian man whos last name ends in -SKYA or -OVA? Maybe I'm forgetting someone, but I don't think I've ever heard of a man with a last name that ends in one of those...but you would think there would have to be since they have parents...anyone know?

Mateo Mathieu
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:08 AM
It's their culture. Add an a in their surname for all female only. Like Marat Safin's sister named Dinara Safina.

kournikovafan13
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:09 AM
The a at the end is a feminine thing

for example, Yevgeny Kafelnikov's daughter is Kafelnikova

Mateo Mathieu
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:10 AM
I beat you, James :p

Hewitt225
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:10 AM
ohhhhh ok...so kournikovas dad is just Kournikov....ok that makes sense, thanks a lot

Mateo Mathieu
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:15 AM
You're welcome ;)

irma
Mar 16th, 2003, 09:37 AM
but what when a woman marries a man. I read here that ova means daughter off so when you marry that would not make sense

and still I heard people say alla kournikova

maya
Mar 16th, 2003, 09:57 AM
but what when a woman marries a man. I read here that ova means daughter off so when you marry that would not make sense

and still I heard people say alla kournikova

It doesn't litteraly mean "daughter of" it means just "of" (possesive) Kournikov's Anna (eng) = Anna Kournikova.

And you can do it to all the names, not just Russian. It was the same in slovenian language, but is now considered very outdated: for example
Tina Pisnik (family Pisnik = Pisnikovi; Tina as a part of family = Pisnikova).

Dava
Mar 16th, 2003, 10:36 AM
I always throught the 'A' meant she, like Navrotilova means 'she who will return' or something.

salima
Mar 16th, 2003, 10:45 AM
but what when a woman marries a man. I read here that ova means daughter off so when you marry that would not make sense

and still I heard people say alla kournikova

Daughter of is ovNa, not ova. so again, here comes the next russian top player: Serena Richardovna Williamsa. got it?

Hewitt 255, there is russian speaking men with "a" in te end of their name. You remember Sergeij Bubka. Hir son , also named Sergeij, Sergeij Sergejovitch Bubka, is a very talented junior tennis player.

:wavey:

Jakeev
Mar 16th, 2003, 11:10 AM
It's mostly just Eastern European countries that do this right? I mean I see this in Russian and former Soviet countries, Slovakia, Czech Republic and Bulgaria and that is about it.

I don't see for instance Hungary or Romania that practice this.

Experimentee
Mar 16th, 2003, 11:46 AM
I just wanna ask, for example, if Kournikova marries Federov, would she be Mrs Federova? Or Mrs Anna Federov?

Habsudovafan
Mar 16th, 2003, 12:06 PM
Hungarians and Rumanians are non slavic people. Their languages are different then their slavic neighbours. That's why don't have an eva or ova ending to their last names.

salima
Mar 16th, 2003, 02:04 PM
I just wanna ask, for example, if Kournikova marries Federov, would she be Mrs Federova? Or Mrs Anna Federov?

I suppose she would still be female, so Fedorova is right. Fedorov is male!

Nomberous examples of Russian girls who has married ( without telling us in the west) and later started underr different names.

Larissa Pytitsina became Lasutina
Olga Kolomina became Savjalova
Anfiza Rhetsova became Romanova and thei all became olympic or world champions, Larissa and Anfisa under both names for good measure!

*JR*
Mar 16th, 2003, 02:09 PM
True about the a's though the surname of Baby Blue Eyes ends in "skaya", not "skya". BTW, Dinara's Mom (her coach now, B4 that of Marat and some other big names) is Raousa (sp?) Islanova.

proteus
Mar 16th, 2003, 02:12 PM
I suppose she would still be female, so Fedorova is right. Fedorov is male!

Yes he is. ;)

*JR*
Mar 16th, 2003, 02:16 PM
I just wanna ask, for example, if Kournikova marries Federov, would she be Mrs Federova? Or Mrs Anna Federov? I heard she's now Senora Anna Iglesia! :p

proteus
Mar 16th, 2003, 02:18 PM
I heard she's now Senora Anna Iglesia! :p
Isn't that translated as Bigamistova? :p

Ted of Teds Tennis
Mar 16th, 2003, 02:45 PM
I should let the native speakers of Russian answer this fully :D, but having majored in Russian in college, I can give a fairly good answer to the question.

Most Russian surnames have male and female endings. The most common types are:

1) names ending in -ov/-ev. To form the female here, you simply add -a to the end of the male surname. Stress is fixed; if it falls on the -ov or -ev it stays on that syllable. Examples are Kafelnikov/Kafelnikova or Medvedev/Medvedeva. When Anna Kournikova married Sergei Fedorov, her surname (if she changed it) would have become Fedorova.

2) names ending in -in/-yn. The female equivalent simply adds an -a like the names in -ov/-ev, but if stress in the male surname is on the -in, the stress in the female equivalent will be on the -a ending. (So every time I hear Shriver say "bo-VEE-na" or "mys-KEE-na", I want to scream, since I'm quite confident these are wrong.) Examples are Safin/Safina.

3) Names ending in -y/-i (depending on transliteration). These are derived from adjectives, and the male adjectival ending is replaced with a female ending. The female ending is ususally transliterated in English as -aya; the male ending can be any number of transliterations. Mikhail Youzhny has such a surname; his sister would be Youzhnaya. Lina Krasnoroutskaya is another example. Some names (Tolstoy) end in -oy; the -oy ending is simply a sign that the stress is on the -oy syllable. (If the name doesn't end in -oy, then it's not stressed on the end syllable.)

4) Names ending in consonants are declined for men, but are indeclinable (and don't add an -a) for women. This is the way non-Slavic names are treated as well (including names such as Todd Martin which end in -in).

5) Names ending in a non -a vowel (Pavel Bure) are indeclinable for both genders; if AK were to marry Bure her last name would be Bure.

6) Native Russian surnames ending in -a (Glinka, Yagoda). These have the same basic form for both men and women, but have alternate declensions IIRC. (I believe declension is optional for men but treated like a normal feminine noun for women.)

Czech and Slovak have a system of male vs. female surnames which is similar but not exactly the same. I'll cover that in another thread later today

salima
Mar 16th, 2003, 07:27 PM
2) names ending in -in/-yn. The female equivalent simply adds an -a like the names in -ov/-ev, but if stress in the male surname is on the -in, the stress in the female equivalent will be on the -a ending. (So every time I hear Shriver say "bo-VEE-na" or "mys-KEE-na", I want to scream, since I'm quite confident these are wrong.) Examples are Safin/Safina.



I could have been humoristic about it, but I too wants to screem. it is about commentators who don`t do their homework. When the commentator mentions the players as Hankukkova and Naggikova, it is unpolite! Having a name strange for most english speaking people myselfe, I am sooo delighted if you ask how to say it.

Bovina, is bOvina,

Jakeev
Mar 16th, 2003, 08:03 PM
Ah Ok so since Henriett Nagyova is Slovakian it's why she uses the "ova" as part of that culture as opposed to Hungarian Kyra Nagy, with the same lat name, who does not.

Making sense :)

ASV
Mar 16th, 2003, 08:58 PM
OK......how do you pronounce Hantuchova's last name?

HanTOCHova or HantuchovA?
KrasnorUTskaya or KrasnourotskaYA

brunof
Mar 16th, 2003, 10:56 PM
Ya, I've heard so many slaughterings of so many names, I don't know myself. For a gay guy, Myskina is so hot! Love that avatar!

Gelene
Mar 16th, 2003, 11:25 PM
:confused:

Messenger
Mar 17th, 2003, 12:57 AM
It doesn't litteraly mean "daughter of" it means just "of" (possesive) Kournikov's Anna (eng) = Anna Kournikova.

And you can do it to all the names, not just Russian. It was the same in slovenian language, but is now considered very outdated: for example
Tina Pisnik (family Pisnik = Pisnikovi; Tina as a part of family = Pisnikova).

Hi Maja! How's Slovenija? Would these be right?

Katerina Srebotnikova
Maja Matevzicova


ASV: I say

Daniela Hahn-TOO-kuh-vuh or Hun-TOO-kuh-vuh
Lina Kras-na-ROOT-skuh-yuh

And Myskina is MIS-ki-nah

maya
Mar 17th, 2003, 06:09 AM
Hi Maja! How's Slovenija? Would these be right?

Katerina Srebotnikova
Maja Matevzicova



:wavey: Slovenija is doing fine ;). Very sunny (but stil cold).

Srebotnikova Katarina
Matevžičeva Maja (for the last names ending with csz or čšž)

You must know it sounds oldfashioned if you use it; but if you are using only last name it's correct. Example: Katarina Srebotnik won her match on monday / Srebotnikova won her ... - and that's what happens to all the names - Williamsova won (everything ;) ) / S. Williams won.

Messenger
Apr 15th, 2003, 12:39 PM
Okay, I understand now. :)

Leena
Apr 15th, 2003, 01:59 PM
2) names ending in -in/-yn. The female equivalent simply adds an -a like the names in -ov/-ev, but if stress in the male surname is on the -in, the stress in the female equivalent will be on the -a ending. (So every time I hear Shriver say "bo-VEE-na" or "mys-KEE-na", I want to scream, since I'm quite confident these are wrong.) Examples are Safin/Safina.

That is correct... and everyone does the same thing with my last name too. :mad: Lena's last name is pronounced Bo-vin-uh. The "vin" rhymes with "in".

Hurley
Apr 15th, 2003, 03:49 PM
And Myskina is M'YOOS-kin-a (a very tricky transliteration from Cyrillic, that is). And it's Dinara SAF-in-a. The anglicized stresses we impose on most Slavic names are totally wrong. Some players (Hantuchova, Navratilova) don't mind it, though.

SJW
Apr 15th, 2003, 03:54 PM
lol oppsie i shouldnt call Elena Bov-EE-Na then :o

Hurley
Apr 15th, 2003, 03:59 PM
Well, you shouldn't feel bad about it. That's how your brain reads it. I'll say "sa-FEE-na" or "bo-VEE-na" reflexively in conversation, because that's pretty much how we're taught to read it in English. They are wildly different languages.

Leena
Apr 15th, 2003, 04:00 PM
As long as you don't say Bo-VINE-uh... I don't have to hurt you. :)

c2
Apr 15th, 2003, 04:08 PM
Wow.. thanks Ted.. quite authoritative... or should I say authoritativa? ;)

starr
Apr 15th, 2003, 04:46 PM
Rule number 4 seems to contradict Rule number 2. Can you explain that, please?

SJW
Apr 15th, 2003, 05:04 PM
LOL thanks Leena.....i think ;)

Ted of Teds Tennis
Apr 15th, 2003, 06:55 PM
Starr:

Non-Slavic names ending in -in are declined differently from Slavic names ending in -in, but you really only need to know that if you need to decline a man's name in the instrumental case :) or need to refer to his wife. So, if Anna Kournikova were to marry hockey player Sergei Brylin, she'd become Anna Brylina, but if she were to marry Todd Martin, she'd become Anna Martin (IIRC -- native speakers of Russian are welcome to correct me on this). I do know, though, that if Anna were to marry, say, skater Ilya Kulik, she'd become Anna Kulik, and not Kulika or Kulikova.

Leena
Apr 15th, 2003, 06:59 PM
What if junior player, Regina Kulikova, married Ilya Kulik? Would she be Regina Kulikova Kulika?

WtaTour4Ever
Apr 15th, 2003, 07:24 PM
And Myskina is M'YOOS-kin-a (a very tricky transliteration from Cyrillic, that is). And it's Dinara SAF-in-a. The anglicized stresses we impose on most Slavic names are totally wrong. Some players (Hantuchova, Navratilova) don't mind it, though.


So is that Myskina as in Moose-kin-a or does the ' between M and Y mean there is a break .....which would be Ma-Yoos-kin-a.




And for the 100th time :-) How do you say Daniela's Last name.

SJW
Apr 15th, 2003, 07:30 PM
i say it sometimes Han-TUKE-ova (like its meant to be said) or sometimes Han-tu-chova (usually the last one cos its easier ;))

Hurley
Apr 15th, 2003, 07:58 PM
So is that Myskina as in Moose-kin-a or does the ' between M and Y mean there is a break .....which would be Ma-Yoos-kin-a.

It's more like the latter...but in one syllable..."meeoos" but quickly!

The deceptive Y in the English transliteration is supposed to have a sound like Y the consonant, not Y the vowel.

So try it like this: say "YOU-skin-a," and then add an M up front. :)

SJW
Apr 15th, 2003, 08:34 PM
haha Myskina is sooooo much easier! :D:)

NaF
Apr 22nd, 2003, 11:58 PM
Hingis is a Slovakian... her real name is Maria Martina Hingisova... ;)
also for Cyril Suk and his sister Helena Sukova...

but is it not compulsary to have the -ova ending for non-russian? coz one may think that hingis is a male.... (??)

salima
Apr 23rd, 2003, 07:05 AM
haha Myskina is sooooo much easier! :D:)

to say it like Moshtchina is the ultimate :eek: its the russian word for man (male Homo Sapiens) ;)

vicky116
Mar 1st, 2005, 11:21 AM
Hingis is a Slovakian... her real name is Maria Martina Hingisova... ;)
also for Cyril Suk and his sister Helena Sukova...

but is it not compulsary to have the -ova ending for non-russian? coz one may think that hingis is a male.... (??)


where did you get that?

Maria Martina??? :eek: