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View Full Version : Why Williams fans will never stop...


JenCpLvr
Mar 16th, 2003, 03:22 AM
complaining about the way the press, commentators, fans blah blah handle the sisters... There's no doubt that Venus and Serena have dominated the tour for the last year and half and deserve credit for that, but you also need to understand that as a commentator it's important to point out their challengers. Believe it or not, many people get tired of seeing the same two players in finals of tournaments.. The commentators know this, so of course they will want to point out the players who have the best chance of challenging them..

It's not always because they are black or because they are powerful or because the other girls are envious of them...Why is that so hard to understand? Yes, I get tired of seeing them over and over, so I do always pull for the underdog when playing them...But, it has nothing to do with anything except my desire to have different and exciting matches.. I would feel the same about any sister duo who played one another so often..

In fact, every time I hear Pam Shriver she is CONSTANTLY speaking of Serena, in particular.. I actually have gotten angry because during her commentating she continuously refers to Serena and her domination.. It's evident Pam really likes her...

Am I the only one who sees that??

tennisIlove09
Mar 16th, 2003, 03:26 AM
No, I understand perfectly :)

disposablehero
Mar 16th, 2003, 03:27 AM
Yes, did it ever occur to any of these whiners that Pam and MJ might be playing up Kim Clijsters as a challenge because 95% of the United States doesn't have a fucking clue who Kim Clijsters is and wouldn't be able to identify her as a tennis player if someone tossed the name at them?

LeonHart
Mar 16th, 2003, 03:32 AM
Pam always talks about how perfect Serena's games are when she plays like her perfect kick 2nd serve and her movement on the court. But when she's not commenting a Williams match, of course they want to make it exciting for the viewers by saying that someone like Clijsters is a challenger, rather than saying Williams will dominate tennis for the next 5 years or something. But some williams fans fail to see this?

BasicTennis
Mar 16th, 2003, 03:40 AM
Yes, did it ever occur to any of these whiners that Pam and MJ might be playing up Kim Clijsters as a challenge because 95% of the United States doesn't have a fucking clue who Kim Clijsters is and wouldn't be able to identify her as a tennis player if someone tossed the name at them?

this is a fucking good excuse.:o saying 95% of Americans doesn't know at least the top 5 players is like America without advancement in communication technology. :devil:

disposablehero
Mar 16th, 2003, 03:48 AM
this is a fucking good excuse.:o saying 95% of Americans doesn't know at least the top 5 players is like America without advancement in communication technology. :devil:

I'm not saying they don't know the top 5 players. Just for them, the top 5 is Williams, Williams, Capriati, Kournikova, and Hingis (probably unaware she retired). Clijsters? Henin? Hantuchova? Never heard of them. Try going to work or school or whatever it is you do and asking people out of the blue what they think of Kim Clijsters.

A4
Mar 16th, 2003, 03:57 AM
Okay, I absolutely love Pam Shriver, but she should stick to what she does best, y'know, like " Boo, hoo and little boo hoo." I mean, in an age where Wertheim has become "werthless" (excuse my spelling, can't find spell check), and Drysdale et al whistle at a Williams winner etc etc, is it too much to ask Shriver to uphold the hallowed virtues of the noble art of commentary and call it as it is, without subjecting the poor unsuspecting American public to coloured versions of the truth?

BasicTennis
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:02 AM
I'm not saying they don't know the top 5 players. Just for them, the top 5 is Williams, Williams, Capriati, Kournikova, and Hingis (probably unaware she retired). Clijsters? Henin? Hantuchova? Never heard of them. Try going to work or school or whatever it is you do and asking people out of the blue what they think of Kim Clijsters.

would these non-tennis persons play a great factor in Kim's success as a tennis player???? Kim's success is not in stupid Pam's hands nor in american public's hands. It's all up to her to achieve this goal.:o

disposablehero
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:16 AM
would these non-tennis persons play a great factor in Kim's success as a tennis player???? Kim's success is not in stupid Pam's hands nor in american public's hands. It's all up to her to achieve this goal.:o

These non-tennis persons probably watch TV, which unless I am mistaken is the medium Pam happens to commentate in. And Kim's success is not entirely up to her. If she won every match for the next 3 years she would have to retire and get a real job unless someone actually PAID her, and this comes from the popularity of tennis, the sport. Which is most assuredly in the hands of the the public (part of whom are American) and can be influenced by the commentators (of which Pam is one). Some people are so obssessed with needing to hear everyone proclaim their favourites are best that they are oblivious to what is best for the sport. What if all the media had decided not to cover the 97 US Open? How long would it have taken Venus to get famous, and how much longer would it have taken for some of her fans to start watching the sport? Or how about if they had simply pointed out what a shocking beating Venus took in the Final and proclaimed that Martina Hingis was unbeatable for the next decade or so? Hear that sound? It's 5 million TV sets clicking off as soon as they hear the winner is inevitable.

BasicTennis
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:21 AM
great point...however, for American people to believe Pam's comments is sheer stupidity.

Dawn Marie
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:24 AM
Nobody said it was ALWAYS cause they are black like WTF? Hell Pam sucks ass big time and not just while she commentates about Venus and SERENA.
Pam is a stupid moronic, dumb ass lameo UGLY ASS, "STEPFORD HAVIN'" commentator. She is bias and crappy. Just her comments are lame and stale. Give me Johnny Mac anyday.

Again, Pam needs some Punanny cause she is losing her heador something. She sucks ass as a commentator. ESPN is already not showing much of Mary Jo, so I think hopefully they are catching on that Pam sucks too.


She is a LAME ass commentator. I would rather have John Mcenroe instead of this "yes yes women". She is ESPN's BiATCH who is afraid to go against the grain. She is so 1940's.. hello 2003. Give me some brash and sass anyday.

Pam=OUTDATED!!:)

King Lindsay
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:36 AM
you don't like stale commentary? but you want mcenroe? lol

it's rare, but i agree with the easily-disposed hero on this one. the commentator's job is to make the match interesting. just because pam doesn't spend the entire match talking about how great serena is doesn't mean that she hates her. just because she calls her "venus" and quickly corrects herself does not make her stupid. and you would all be well served to remember that SHRIVER WAS VENUS' MENTOR. if anything, she is biased IN FAVOUR of the williams sisters. if i recall, that was the gripe of many fans (not me) a few years ago when she was still serving in that role.

anyway, it seems that a good portion of the fans of every top player seem to believe that all the commentators are biased against their favorite. it's all bullshit.

Dawn Marie
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:41 AM
uh huh, and if she spent 2 solid hours talkin about Kim's play or Jen's play that would make it err what? Yep that's right STILL STALE AND LAMEO AND STuuuuuuuuuuuuPID. PAM SUCKS ASS!

Again MJF is seen nor heard and hopefully soon Pam will be seen nor heard from as well.

SHE IS A FAKE SCUMBAG;) SCUMBAG SCUMBAG SCUMBAG. :devil: :devil: :p :wavey: :devil: :drool: :sad: :eek: :devil:

King Lindsay
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:45 AM
i don't even really like pam's commentary, but she's not as bad you make her out to be.

Dawn Marie
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:49 AM
She is when I have PMS! Ha ha hahahahahah.

PAM SUCKS ASS, FAKE ESPNER.lol

She would probably want ATP tour on Espn then the WTA. HA HA

King Lindsay
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:55 AM
when you were at the bar today, were you watching your drink at all times? ;) you seem a little looped. :)

BasicTennis
Mar 16th, 2003, 05:03 AM
when you were at the bar today, were you watching your drink at all times? ;) you seem a little looped. :)

Dawn must have taken a Pam on the rocks drink eh. :worship:

Dawn Marie
Mar 16th, 2003, 05:05 AM
If OBNOXIOUS means one is looped then by any means necessary I am LOOPED. LMAO

sadly :sad: I missed the bar today and tonight.. hopefully that will change when I go first shift. :p

Dawn Marie
Mar 16th, 2003, 05:09 AM
Yah know, I really don't drink much but after the hellish night I had at work I am about to make a me a mixed drink. It sure aint no Pam on any freakin ass Beach. This drink is not stale it is sassy and brassy. LOL:)

Rocketta
Mar 16th, 2003, 05:48 AM
There's a big difference between calling someone a challenger and being bias and saying someone is the #2 player right after you said you had breakfast with her (AO reference) I thought that was very unprofessional. Also Pam should find other ways to spice up her commentary than lying to the public by saying Kim is "playing" like #2. No wonder the crowds are so upset when a Williams beats her they go in with false unrealistic hope. :(

TeeRexx
Mar 16th, 2003, 10:13 AM
Pam calling Kim the true #2 and completely ignoring the ass whippings that she gets from VENUS makes her look ridiculous in the very least.

It is not going to look good when/if Kim gets another Williams whipping in Miami and Pam still promotes her as the GWH.

Jakeev
Mar 16th, 2003, 11:16 AM
You seem to be preoccupied with this "sucking ass" business dawny baby are you trying to tell us all that you are missing something kinky in your bedroom?
:devil:

Rollo
Mar 16th, 2003, 11:26 AM
Dawn-one wonders if you and the other whiners even watched the match-I doubt it. Shriver was playing devil's advocate with Cliff when she said Kim was #2 (she even used words to that effect), she was merely pointing out that things can happen. She should know, having played the tour as long as she did.

As for BIAS-you've been watching tennis since when? Shriver has been criticized in the past for being more pro-Williams than anything else. She was only tennis insider I knew of who defended daddy Richard in the early days.

doloresc
Mar 16th, 2003, 12:03 PM
As for BIAS-you've been watching tennis since when? Shriver has been criticized in the past for being more pro-Williams than anything else. She was only tennis insider I knew of who defended daddy Richard in the early days.

rollo i agree and i also believe shriver was even venus' mentor in the wta mentor program (where they matched up a retired pro with a current one). as a williams fan, i've never had any doubts with shriver's fondness for the sisters especially venus. when pam commentates, she has a job to do, one of which is playing devil's advocate. she may be cheering for venus and serena all the way but she can't let the tv spectators know that. i enjoy her dry sense of humour and appreciate the fact that she keeps up with the tour. mary carillo is polished but i feel, at times, during the us open that she's working from cliff notes i.e. that she really doesn't know who zvonareva is but has to pretend that she does. that is not the case with shriver who's quite aware of players outside of the top 20.

maccardel
Mar 16th, 2003, 12:38 PM
The point of the matter is that everyone wants to bring home the head of a Williams. They talk about Williams this, Williams that. It never fails. In almost every interview players are asked about the sisters til it sounds like an illness; "Can you beat the williamses?"
Do you think the williamses are good for the tour-it sounds like some plague.

I am not gonna deny that the sisters are at the top therefore the tour will be out to get them....

I imagine that Martina Hingis was somewhat right when she said the "two headed monster" statement. It's always williamses, williamses,williamses.

The players and commentators don't help much when they keep mentioning the two headed monster that has suddenly taken the tour by storm and dominated the slams and play by their own rules.

No one is mentioning the shit that everyone was talking about: the sisters don't play enough to be number one they only care about slams; Now all the other players are committing to 25 tourneys a year and still can't fucking qualify for the year end. Lets talk about Venus and Serena dancing to their own tune.

Lindsay was one of the biggest critics of the girls and their schedule, now she is even saying that the season is too long and Kim is saying she is gonna quit in three years and all that other shit.

The biggest critic, Martina Hingis, played her ass off to the point where she was number one for a while without winning slams but she is out of here with injury.

Amelie, Monica,Chanda,Lindsay(yes Lindsay),Venus and Serena all played below average amount of tourneys but still manage to stay in the top 20...because they have produced quality tennis.
Sorry if you may be offended but it's the truth.

Playa
Mar 16th, 2003, 12:50 PM
JencpLVR for someone who called blacks APES,
you're the last personne to piss and moan .
and you can tell that to your ignorant friends who responded to this thread too.

remember this board has a strong memory.

Bright Red
Mar 16th, 2003, 01:05 PM
I'm probably one of the biggest Williams fans on the face of the planet, and I love Pam Shriver. She is a big supporter of the Williams Sisters. Whenever she comments about them, it shows through.

The media has a responsibility to point out challengers and other relevant info to the mass audience about what's going on in the world of tennis. The commentators rarely enlighten us posters since we frequent this board and get all the news we need. We know all the players, gossip, etc. But the casual TV viewer doesn't. The more informed those viewers are, the more interesting the sport becomes. And that benefits us all.

maccardel
Mar 16th, 2003, 01:47 PM
I'm probably one of the biggest Williams fans on the face of the planet, and I love Pam Shriver. She is a big supporter of the Williams Sisters. Whenever she comments about them, it shows through.

The media has a responsibility to point out challengers and other relevant info to the mass audience about what's going on in the world of tennis. The commentators rarely enlighten us posters since we frequent this board and get all the news we need. We know all the players, gossip, etc. But the casual TV viewer doesn't. The more informed those viewers are, the more interesting the sport becomes. And that benefits us all.


Agreed.

leslie
Mar 16th, 2003, 01:52 PM
I'm probably one of the biggest Williams fans on the face of the planet, and I love Pam Shriver. She is a big supporter of the Williams Sisters. Whenever she comments about them, it shows through.

The media has a responsibility to point out challengers and other relevant info to the mass audience about what's going on in the world of tennis. The commentators rarely enlighten us posters since we frequent this board and get all the news we need. We know all the players, gossip, etc. But the casual TV viewer doesn't. The more informed those viewers are, the more interesting the sport becomes. And that benefits us all.


You are living in a dream world if you think that pam is a supporter of the Williams Sisters. She hates thoes girls with a passion.

tennischick
Mar 16th, 2003, 02:20 PM
so the problem here is that some Williams fans believe that despite being their early mentor, Pam Shriver actually HATES the sisters? that she talks about their game constantly not bec she likes them but because she actually HATES them? that she makes endless refererences to how awesome and confident Serena is and how powerful and fast Venus is not bec she has any admiration for them but because she secretly HATES their guts? and that her comment that implied that others can only win when they are absent or injured was a secret wish for the sisters to always be absent or injured? :confused:

just want to make sure that i understand the issues.

Tennisfan-Mtl
Mar 16th, 2003, 02:27 PM
My only remark : I simply can't keep track of the numerous threads started by Williams fans that keep exposing the "supposed" superiority of the Sisters....

Examples of such threads :

Polls : Will Serena win everything this year ?
Venus "worst" result last year : A semifinal...
Poll : Why does Serena always look like da bomb ?

brunof
Mar 16th, 2003, 02:43 PM
:fiery: :rolleyes: x 100000000 at certain posters...

brunof
Mar 16th, 2003, 02:49 PM
Good point TennisfanMTL - *High Five*

Tennisfan-Mtl
Mar 16th, 2003, 03:08 PM
brunof : :)

Shuji Shuriken
Mar 16th, 2003, 03:53 PM
I couldn't give a flying fuck whether Pam Shriver likes them or not. I listen to her sometimes. One time she's all nice and fair, and another time it seems like she wants them to be beaten so badly it's ridiculous. I don't understand that. And whether she is biased towards them wouldn't influence if they win or lose. Period. And one more thing...what the fuck is so wrong about posting about how superior they "supposedly" are? Aren't they proving that when they step out on the court? When I will believe they aren't superior is when they get beaten consistently by anyone not named Williams. I am really sick of this borad sometimes. It seems like the biggest sin around here is liking someone named Williams :devil:. Send the cops after me for pete's sake will ya.

lizchris
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:06 PM
complaining about the way the press, commentators, fans blah blah handle the sisters... There's no doubt that Venus and Serena have dominated the tour for the last year and half and deserve credit for that, but you also need to understand that as a commentator it's important to point out their challengers. Believe it or not, many people get tired of seeing the same two players in finals of tournaments.. The commentators know this, so of course they will want to point out the players who have the best chance of challenging them..

It's not always because they are black or because they are powerful or because the other girls are envious of them...Why is that so hard to understand? Yes, I get tired of seeing them over and over, so I do always pull for the underdog when playing them...But, it has nothing to do with anything except my desire to have different and exciting matches.. I would feel the same about any sister duo who played one another so often..

In fact, every time I hear Pam Shriver she is CONSTANTLY speaking of Serena, in particular.. I actually have gotten angry because during her commentating she continuously refers to Serena and her domination.. It's evident Pam really likes her...

Am I the only one who sees that??

It isn't the Williams sisters fault that the other players can't beat them. Maybe they should try harder. If the other players can't do that, then you will keep seeing the sisters in finals, so stop complaining.

harloo
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:08 PM
The question should be when will some ignorant Capriati fans stop creating threads about William fans?

Anyways, I will say that Pam is a slick ho. She gives a compliment then she takes a dig at the sisters. Now, at first I thought she was just doing her job, but with her recent comments I have changed my mind. So all the WHINERS who have a problem with me expressing my opinion then tough luck. Don't sit here and act like Pam is innocent. Her comments about Venus and Serena getting injured was ridiculous, and saying that Kim is #2 is disrespectful, NO MATTER WHAT CONTEXT IT WAS SAID IN. Hmmm.? Wonder why this wasn't said when Capriati was winning her slams in 2001, and on her way to winning the Grand slam. No complaints at all, no saying she is destroying tennis, no saying she is too dominant, none of the bullshit that we hear now. I guess it's just a coincidence eh? Whatever. :rolleyes:

Also all this talk about her exposing the game and other players to the public is bullocks. I for one minute don't believe it, and most people know who Kim is and if Kim starts to really challenge the sisters in the slams that will take care of itself. It is the job of the commentator to talk about the competition and the aspect of the match being played at that designated time, not to spread false truths and glorify wishful thinking. IMO, Pam has simply crossed the line with her logic. I don't like John McEnroe, but at least he's not gonna lie. And I think Mary Carillo tells the truth how she see's it, even if she is a little bias. I respect that more than Pam's constant blabbering about nothing.

c2
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:38 PM
I think what we've learned is if you have a major chip on your shoulder... as many Williams fans seem to... even innocent commentary designed to spice up interest in tennis is taken as an ATTACK! get some therapy, people. :rolleyes:

c2
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:39 PM
oh, and great post, BrightRed. My thoughts exactly. :wavey:

Rocketta
Mar 16th, 2003, 05:10 PM
I agree with Harloo! :)

Its disrespectful to talk about possible injury in the williams it sounds like wishful thinking. Everyone can get injured including the challengers so what's the point of talking about possible injuries? Also, this repetitive nonsense about Kim being the #2 is also disrespectful. Kim will either get the #2 ranking or not why do people have to jump the gun? Why isn't saying Kim is playing as one of the best in the tour right now good enough? I think its bullshit. I don't know if Pam loves the Williams or has a grudge that we don't know about. I do know she needs to stop calling Kim #2 when she's not. I thought commentators were suppose to talk about their experiences and FACTS.

oh and its my computer, internet connection, keyboard and I can WHINE if I want to. Get over it.

Cybelle Darkholme
Mar 16th, 2003, 05:15 PM
Well I dont remember any talk about Jen Domination when she won two slams back to back, do you? So harloo has a point.

Her comments about Venus and Serena getting injured was ridiculous, and saying that Kim is #2 is disrespectful, NO MATTER WHAT CONTEXT IT WAS SAID IN.

IF you believe this then how do you feel about all the commentary that venus was the true number one when martina held the spot?

Rocketta
Mar 16th, 2003, 05:21 PM
Well I dont remember any talk about Jen Domination when she won two slams back to back, do you? So harloo has a point.


The problem is they started talking about it around Wimbledon which was only their 2nd grand slam. They never gave them a chance to truly dominate before they started complaining and whining! :(

harloo
Mar 16th, 2003, 08:28 PM
Well I dont remember any talk about Jen Domination when she won two slams back to back, do you? So harloo has a point.



IF you believe this then how do you feel about all the commentary that venus was the true number one when martina held the spot?

Venus had proven that she was the best player during that particular time when she was beating everyone. However, I still felt that Venus was not the true #1 because she didn't play enough tennis. And Vee still does not play enough, but that seems to be her personal choice.

When Jen was dominating and on her way to the Grand Slam you really didn't even hear any of this negativity from the commentators(maybe on this board). The majority of them had high praise for her and what she was about to accomplish.
Also, I feel like it's ok for the commentators to have an opinion but to make false claims is another story. And it seems people attempt to use the defense of , "Oh she is just trying to make the game exciting". Yeah right! :rolleyes:

harloo
Mar 16th, 2003, 08:35 PM
I think what we've learned is if you have a major chip on your shoulder... as many Williams fans seem to... even innocent commentary designed to spice up interest in tennis is taken as an ATTACK! get some therapy, people. :rolleyes:

I think what we have learned from this post, is basically nothing. I guess when someone has nothing to say, they go in fan attack mode. I think maybe they should seek therapy themselves. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :fiery: