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View Full Version : "Clijster's Domination", which player is ready to stop it now?


Hulet
Mar 16th, 2003, 12:50 AM
[Notice that it took great pain not to spell kim's name as "Kimberly":o]
[Notice #2 (added for Angele:)): No bashing of kim allowed in this thread]

Background material: Kim Clijsters - She is blitzing through draws (even if some of them are ridiculously easy), tearing apart her opponents, and winning titles after titles (I am almost sure she will win IW). So far, she have played 24 matches this year (including hopman cup) and won 20 of them. In 2003, she has only one hiccup, that is, loss to a player ranked below her. She has reached the semis of all and the final of 3 of the tourneys she has played this year. She has beat three of the current top tenners (in straight sets too): Justine and Chanda twice, and Lindsay once. To summerize, she is the second player dominating the tour (the first one being Serena).

Reason for creating this thread: I wasn't a believer, now I became one. When poster after poster claimed that "domination" is boring, I closed my eyes and said no way (basically, b/c previously only my faves were dominating). But, now I am a convert. I realized domination is boring, :yawn:, ZZZzzz, etc. It stifels the excitment out of the tour. I want competition now (unless my faves are playing).

Questions:

1)Do you think is there any player ranked below Kim which might be able to stop her seemingly unstoppable momentum? Or is she invincible now?
2)Is it too early to talk about the "Kim domination" now? Should we give her time until she plays against the other top tenners (such as Jennifer, Amelie, Daniela, Jelena, Monica) before we talk about her domination?
3)Is it time for the reporters to stop torturing players ranked below #3 with questions like, "How are you going to stop the Williams' domination?" and start torturing them with question like, "how will you be able to stop the "Kim domination"?
4)Or do you think the "Lleykim domination" will be generate more interest for both for ATP and WTA tours and so should be encouraged?

angele87
Mar 16th, 2003, 01:04 AM
Why did you start this thread?? As I write this there are no replies but I can tell that it's just going to turn into a let's bash Kim thread or a Venus and Serena are far superior to Kim thread... we have tons of those so enough already!!!

Crazy Canuck
Mar 16th, 2003, 01:05 AM
Reason for creating this thread: I wasn't a believer, now I became one. When poster after poster claimed that "domination" is boring, I closed my eyes and said no way (basically, b/c previously only my faves were dominating). But, now I am a convert. I realized domination is boring, :yawn:, ZZZzzz, etc. It stifels the excitment out of the tour. I want competition now (unless my faves are playing).


I agree, and this is why I don't root for Kim or either Williams Sister, regardless of my personal feelings for the 3.

Hulet
Mar 16th, 2003, 01:08 AM
Angele, I think I gave the reason for starting the thread. I am seriously curious who which player has the talent to stop her unstoppable momentum. I see how you might consider it as a bashing thread (given my past history and the recent trend in this forum wrt Kim) but believe me it is not. I just would like peoples to respond to the questions. May be I should discourage others from bashing Kim in my original post.

Hulet
Mar 16th, 2003, 01:12 AM
I agree, and this is why I don't root for Kim or either Williams Sister, regardless of my personal feelings for the 3.
Rebecca, I thought you were a Kim fan. How did I got that one wrong? Anyways, I don't mind if my faves dominate, but I don't want other to do so. Hypocrisy - I know, but I can't help it.

angele87
Mar 16th, 2003, 01:25 AM
Angele, I think I gave the reason for starting the thread. I am seriously curious who which player has the talent to stop her unstoppable momentum. I see how you might consider it as a bashing thread (given my past history and the recent trend in this forum wrt Kim) but believe me it is not. I just would like peoples to respond to the questions. May be I should discourage others from bashing Kim in my original post.
Thanks for adding the second notice :kiss:

I actually don't remember reading many of your posts so if you were ( or weren't ) bashing Kim I have no idea so I never thought that you started this thread to bash Kim. I simply think that given the way people have been talking about Kim and about Serena and Venus in relation to Kim that this thread will eventually turn into a Serena and Venus are clearly better than Kim thread or a Kim can never dream of being number 1 or 2 thread and I just think we have enough of those already!

Crazy Canuck
Mar 16th, 2003, 01:31 AM
Rebecca, I thought you were a Kim fan. How did I got that one wrong? Anyways, I don't mind if my faves dominate, but I don't want other to do so. Hypocrisy - I know, but I can't help it.
No idea. I've never rooted for Kim, at least not since she got on a roll. I will root for her against Serena because Serena is the favourite, but I'm not heartbroken if she loses.

My favourite female player is likely Henin.

Sanneriet
Mar 16th, 2003, 01:50 AM
Kim has had some "bad" losses. I never think she has the match in her hand before she wins.

Rtael
Mar 16th, 2003, 02:57 AM
No idea. I've never rooted for Kim, at least not since she got on a roll. I will root for her against Serena because Serena is the favourite, but I'm not heartbroken if she loses.

My favourite female player is likely Henin.

Woohoo, Go Becca!

Anyway... ;)

I think Henin is capable of beating clijsters, except she hasn't got it mentally agaisnt her right now....V & S obviously are still dominating Kim (if Kim fans don't like hearing this, too bad, don't read my post, go live in your fantasy worl where kim can consistently beath them....) I think Lindsay and Cappy are capable of beating Kim, but I don't think either would ever dominate their H2H or consistently beat her =P

angele87
Mar 16th, 2003, 03:06 AM
V & S obviously are still dominating Kim (if Kim fans don't like hearing this, too bad, don't read my post, go live in your fantasy worl where kim can consistently beath them....)

We're not in denial... we don't think Kim is dominating the Williams Sisters and we don't think Kim is the real number one or anything like that. However, that fact doesn't need to be mentioned in every thread about Kim, especially threads like this one which have nothing to do with Venus or Serena.

1)Do you think is there any player ranked below Kim which might be able to stop her seemingly unstoppable momentum? Or is she invincible now?

I thought we were the ones in denial about Kim being better than Venus and Serena :confused: I thought they were both ranked higher than Kim but.... *leaves in search of the rankings*

TeeRexx
Mar 16th, 2003, 03:44 AM
Davenport and Capriati should put a dent in the domination of Kim.

In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy the exciting domination of the game by V&S. :)

Hawk
Mar 16th, 2003, 03:47 AM
We're not in denial... we don't think Kim is dominating the Williams Sisters and we don't think Kim is the real number one or anything like that. However, that fact doesn't need to be mentioned in every thread about Kim, especially threads like this one which have nothing to do with Venus or Serena.

I couldn't agree more :worship:

Dawn Marie
Mar 16th, 2003, 05:15 AM
I agree with TeeRex, I think Jennifer, Lindsay and Momo oh and Ai of course can put a dent in her winning percentage.

Crazy Canuck
Mar 16th, 2003, 05:31 AM
If Amelie had been healthy the last 6 months, I don't believe that we would be having this conversation :sad:

WtaTour4Ever
Mar 16th, 2003, 05:37 AM
On current form, I say Kim is dominate, however if Lindsay can regain her top form as well as Jenny, I think it will become more of a battle. With Lindsay and Kim at 3 and 4...either order and J.Cap at 5.

franny
Mar 16th, 2003, 05:43 AM
uh, kim domination??? kim has only won one title this year and there are definitly players below her who can beat her. Didn't sugiyama beat her just last week, and didn't kim have a tough match at the beginning of the tournament. Lindsay can beat kim, she has the power. Jen can beat kim, because of her defense, amelie can beat kim becasue of her great game, there is definitly no kim domination, she hasn't really had to play any great players this year so far, and when she has had to play them, she's lost(serena and venus). I do give her props for beating lindsay earlier this year, but that was before lindsay got her game going again.

Dawn Marie
Mar 16th, 2003, 06:12 AM
Well stated franny:) :worship:

1jackson2001
Mar 16th, 2003, 06:21 AM
I don't see a Kim domination, but maybe that's just me. She's playing really well that's for sure.

THE NET
Mar 16th, 2003, 06:38 AM
You called it a "Clijster's Domination"?

How come? Tennis would be much boring if this thing really happen. :angel:

ns_Henin
Mar 16th, 2003, 07:06 AM
Dont dreaming
Remember Ai Sugiyama

Mercury Rising
Mar 16th, 2003, 10:00 AM
uh, kim domination??? kim has only won one title this year and there are definitly players below her who can beat her. Didn't sugiyama beat her just last week, and didn't kim have a tough match at the beginning of the tournament. Lindsay can beat kim, she has the power. Jen can beat kim, because of her defense, amelie can beat kim becasue of her great game, there is definitly no kim domination, she hasn't really had to play any great players this year so far, and when she has had to play them, she's lost(serena and venus). I do give her props for beating lindsay earlier this year, but that was before lindsay got her game going again.
BS, did any other player defeated Serena or Venus? I think not. Who's leading the Champions Race? You can be in denial all you want, but Kim had the best results this year behind V&S. Oh yeah, and OFCOURSE Justine isn't a great player :rolleyes: Just a Belgian wannabe who defeated Capriati and Seles in one tournament :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Dominating or not, I just want her to win, that's all. I don't think she is dominating yet, it's just too early to say. And I'm still very nervous for each match, so boring? Hell no!

Experimentee
Mar 16th, 2003, 01:03 PM
I dont get the point of not rooting for someone just because they are dominating. I've been a fan of the Williams sisters and Kim for many years, before any of them were even top 50, and I'm not going to stop now just because they are winning. That doesnt mean they dont need anyones support. To stop cheering for someone just because they're winning is just as bad as stopping when they are losing. A fan is a fan for ever, no matter what the results are.

maccardel
Mar 16th, 2003, 01:49 PM
What kinda fucking question is that?

Kim just got her ass trumped by Ai....and lets not talk about Venus and Serena and Amelie is coming on strong ...is that question some kinda joke? or maybe it's the wording "domination" .

Domination is domination and anything less is not domination. In that case lets ask who can stop the Sugiyama domination afterall give credit where credit is due. She has won the last tourney and the doubles and she is in another doubles therefore she is one up on Kim.

Kim winning today would be ok but lets face it she has not played a top player at the top. She caught Chanda when Chanda just played Ai and Lindsay just came off a three setter with Jennifer.

I see a replay of the year end where Jen wears out her opponent and Kim reaps the rewards.

This is not a bash Kim reply but rather a temporalily moment of truth.

Havok
Mar 16th, 2003, 04:12 PM
well as funny as you think this might sound, i think that Jelena Dokic can stop her domination. maybe not totally stop it, but she'll put up a good fight. i mean look at all their matches. they were always battles and usually have gone to 3 sets. no matter who wins, they always win a very tough battle. also i think they know eachothers' games the best because of juniors.

maccardel
Mar 16th, 2003, 05:02 PM
well as funny as you think this might sound, i think that Jelena Dokic can stop her domination. maybe not totally stop it, but she'll put up a good fight. i mean look at all their matches. they were always battles and usually have gone to 3 sets. no matter who wins, they always win a very tough battle. also i think they know eachothers' games the best because of juniors.


? there is some truth to that statement. I think that jelena is a very good player and is not given credit that truly deserves. It'll be nice to have a real good rivalry. I imagine that Serena and Venus are from the soon to be old school meaning they came on a few years before the current top 10.........therefore when their class graduates the new rivalries will be Jelena/justine/kim/anastacia. and the other newcomers.

Mercury Rising
Mar 16th, 2003, 05:28 PM
What kinda fucking question is that?

Kim just got her ass trumped by Ai....and lets not talk about Venus and Serena and Amelie is coming on strong ...is that question some kinda joke? or maybe it's the wording "domination" .

Domination is domination and anything less is not domination. In that case lets ask who can stop the Sugiyama domination afterall give credit where credit is due. She has won the last tourney and the doubles and she is in another doubles therefore she is one up on Kim.

Kim winning today would be ok but lets face it she has not played a top player at the top. She caught Chanda when Chanda just played Ai and Lindsay just came off a three setter with Jennifer.

I see a replay of the year end where Jen wears out her opponent and Kim reaps the rewards.

This is not a bash Kim reply but rather a temporalily moment of truth.
OMG, just say Kim NEVER defeats a topplayer at the top! It will be never enough for morons like you. The truth? LMAO, you couldn't see the truth when it bits you in the ass :mad:

maccardel
Mar 16th, 2003, 05:36 PM
OMG, just say Kim NEVER defeats a topplayer at the top! It will be never enough for morons like you. The truth? LMAO, you couldn't see the truth when it bits you in the ass :mad:

The truth. Jennifer had rights to claim she can compete against the williamses because she still dominated serena then and she would take Venus to three sets on occasion.....then Jen would also pull out victories against Amelie and other players at the top of their game....I am not taking anything away from Kim eventhough it sounds like it...but when she becomes more consistent then I'll say that she is dominating....Can you imagine when Justine gets her mental game together what will happen?
Justine has defeated Serena last year to be exact and has also defeated Venus and Jennifer and Lindsay now I say that is domination waiting to happen. All Justine needs is the mental capacity to close out the big matches......Kim is good and Justine right now is a little better in terms of all court game....the coming months or week will show us all.

jenny161185
Mar 16th, 2003, 06:09 PM
I think Jen and Lindsay will catch up on kim and I think their be a great battle for the 3,4, and top 5 positions. wonder if any of these girls can upset an all-williams final at Miami next week

Hulet
Mar 16th, 2003, 10:56 PM
Well, I guess todays result proves that we simply discount the fact that Kim is dominating the tour (minus Serena and Venus) and also that we can't count on Lindsay to rescue the tour from losing its competitive soul. Neither will Justine or Chanda (unless something drastically changes).

maccardel
Mar 18th, 2003, 03:40 PM
Well, I guess todays result proves that we simply discount the fact that Kim is dominating the tour (minus Serena and Venus) and also that we can't count on Lindsay to rescue the tour from losing its competitive soul. Neither will Justine or Chanda (unless something drastically changes).

Either you dominate or you don't. You can't say I am dominating something only because someone is not here......then in the long run it's not really domination at all.

Cariaoke
Mar 18th, 2003, 03:53 PM
As much as I love Kim, she is not dominating. She is however giving gymnasts a run for their money. :D Go Splits!

Kim has been vulnerable lately. The complete obliteration of her game in AO (or was she just simply outplayed :p ), her usual bowdown to Venus, her defeat while leading Ai at Scottsdale... what is going on? I don't think she has a choke reputation but she is quickly developing one. I'm kind of concerned. I watched part of the IW final due to Bush interrupting with his mundane speech and just to see the relief on her face after winning shows she's struggling with something.

Of course, Vee and Ree are my favorites but Kim is my absolute second. I'm not sure what to make of her situation but she's 2/5 this year when she should be 3/5, 4/5 if Serena had melted down completely. :sad: Maybe it's mental, :shrug:.

Amanda
Mar 18th, 2003, 05:03 PM
Kim dominating????? LOL! Very premature. She has yet to defeat Serena or Venus this year. Her 5-1 final set fiasco vs Serena at the AO was dreadful. Her routine 6-2 6-4 loss to Venus in her own backyard certainly did not help her cause. Until Kim starts to defeat Venus and Serena, she'll remain #3 without regard to ranking points.

maccardel
Mar 19th, 2003, 02:38 PM
@Amanda-my point exactly.

Volcana
Mar 19th, 2003, 03:55 PM
Since after the USOpen, no top ten player besides V&S has been able to touch Kim, basically. how many times have Lindsay, Monica, Amelie, Jenn, Justine, Dani, Chanda and Nastya beeen able to beat her since then? The H2H vs that group since the USOpen?

15-2

The losses were to Myskina and Davenport. In that period, she's 2-1 vs Myskina, and 3-1 Davenport.

She IS dominating #4-#12.

In fact, the reason she's ranked #3 not #2 is 2nd and 3rd round GS finishes in the past 12 months, and losing to players ranked outside the top twelve. But she's kicking the collective tails of #4-#12.

Chance
Mar 19th, 2003, 04:04 PM
Kim's wimbledon result is not even in her best 17 results and if Kim does well in the GO then FO won't count either.

venusfan
Mar 19th, 2003, 05:02 PM
Basically Kim is a very good player.. however she is a chocker and I never give the other player the nail in the coffin until the final point is over. What was it again... 5-2 or 5-1 up in the Australian Open semifinal and she lost

disposablehero
Mar 19th, 2003, 06:27 PM
Basically Kim is a very good player.. however she is a chocker and I never give the other player the nail in the coffin until the final point is over. What was it again... 5-2 or 5-1 up in the Australian Open semifinal and she lost

SO glad you could make it, venusfan. She's not exactly the Tier IV queen anymore, is she? And if she was that big a choker, Serena would be the current holder of the tour's 6 biggest titles. BTW, since your English is so clueless (a common malady for many New Yorkers):

chock ( P ) Pronunciation Key (chk)
n.
A block or wedge placed under something else, such as a wheel, to keep it from moving.
Nautical. A heavy fitting of metal or wood with two jaws curving inward, through which a rope or cable may be run.


Therefore, a "chocker" is either someone who places themselves under a wheel to keep it from moving, or someone who runs a rope/cable through their jaws.

Gandalf
Mar 19th, 2003, 07:14 PM
Since after the USOpen, no top ten player besides V&S has been able to touch Kim, basically. how many times have Lindsay, Monica, Amelie, Jenn, Justine, Dani, Chanda and Nastya beeen able to beat her since then? The H2H vs that group since the USOpen?

15-2

The losses were to Myskina and Davenport. In that period, she's 2-1 vs Myskina, and 3-1 Davenport.

She IS dominating #4-#12.

In fact, the reason she's ranked #3 not #2 is 2nd and 3rd round GS finishes in the past 12 months, and losing to players ranked outside the top twelve. But she's kicking the collective tails of #4-#12.

Since after the US'Open, she hasn't played Monica or Jenn, and is 1-0 against Mauresmo, winning 7-5 in the third, and 1-0 against Dani, winning 6-4 in the third. I wouldn't call that 'kicking their tails'. Its true that she dominates Justine, Chanda, Lindsay and Nastya, but it's too early to talk about the others.

franny
Mar 20th, 2003, 05:29 AM
i just think that its wierd to say that a player is dominating when she hasn't won a grand slam yet and she constantly chokes when up match points and when having leads. I mean, domination should be have exceptions, and kim has her exceptions. I am a fan of hers, a big fan, and i hope she wins grand slams in the future, which she will, but when she can clearly take away titles from the williams by beating them, then ok, i'll say yea she is up there, but still not "dominating". If she beats the williams and everyone is everytime, then yea she is dominating. Serena is dominating, venus is NOT!, Kim is not!. That is why i dont agree with the original post, because domination should know no exceptions, domination is domination, you need to be able to defeat everyone constantly to get that title added to your name.