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View Full Version : Getting back to the topic of Kim being the 2nd best player in the world....


Volcana
Mar 3rd, 2003, 10:21 AM
... well, we WERE hearing a bit of that after OZ. Where are you guys?

bis2806
Mar 3rd, 2003, 10:45 AM
2nd in the world? excuse me? i mean that's something which is very unlikely to happen since she did not perform as well as what we had expected.... and furthermore with lindsay coming up it's likely that kim will be knocked out of her no.3 position

gentenaire
Mar 3rd, 2003, 10:54 AM
We're busy congratulating Ai.

switz
Mar 3rd, 2003, 10:59 AM
2nd in the world? excuse me? i mean that's something which is very unlikely to happen since she did not perform as well as what we had expected.... and furthermore with lindsay coming up it's likely that kim will be knocked out of her no.3 position

didn't lindsay lose to ai? i don't think clijsters has many points to defend until the end of the year besides bettybarclay, and she is like 1800 points in front of lindsay. i think lindsay still has to prove if she is going to get back to her best, and if the motivation is still there

Gowza
Mar 3rd, 2003, 11:04 AM
i think kim is the 3rd best player in the world right now. i never thought she was second. i don't see lindsay taking that #3 position. even if she does i doubt it will be that easy. i think they will be fighting for that position if anything.

bis2806
Mar 3rd, 2003, 11:15 AM
didn't lindsay lose to ai? i don't think clijsters has many points to defend until the end of the year besides bettybarclay, and she is like 1800 points in front of lindsay. i think lindsay still has to prove if she is going to get back to her best, and if the motivation is still there

Lindsay was having a flu while playing ai due to the delay of matches owing to bad weather... go to think link and find out: http://espn.go.com/tennis/news/2003/0227/1515556.html (go right to the bottom of the page)

per4ever
Mar 3rd, 2003, 11:34 AM
and Kim was ill when she beat Justine in Antwerp..

excuses :rolleyes:

Kim is the number three in the world, and she will stay there for a while, just as Justine will stay at #4.

switz
Mar 3rd, 2003, 11:39 AM
Lindsay was having a flu while playing ai due to the delay of matches owing to bad weather... go to think link and find out: http://espn.go.com/tennis/news/2003/0227/1515556.html (go right to the bottom of the page)

i don't doubt that there was something wrong with lindsay, but i think her form throughout the year has indicated she needs to lift (aside perhaps her win in tokyo in the weakest ever tier 1 field). you gotta face the fact that clijsters won sydney (beating lindsay comprehensively) , should've won the aus open and has played poorly since and yet still made the final of two tournaments. i am not a clijsters fan, but i think we might be a bit harsh in presuming that she has slipped into unescapable hole where she will be error-proned for the rest of the year

Experimentee
Mar 3rd, 2003, 11:43 AM
She was never the 2nd best in the world. She is currently the 3rd best.

irma
Mar 3rd, 2003, 11:47 AM
I am glad things have gone back to normal

allez kimmy :devil:

Hagar
Mar 3rd, 2003, 11:55 AM
I second BB's reply.

Come-on-kim
Mar 3rd, 2003, 12:27 PM
Kim is for sure the number 3 in the world!! Not more not less!!

Volcana
Mar 3rd, 2003, 04:25 PM
We're busy congratulating Ai.

An answer to model in future posts. Well answered, indeed.

Rocketta
Mar 3rd, 2003, 04:59 PM
hmm yeah were are those people??

mboyle
Mar 3rd, 2003, 04:59 PM
and Kim was ill when she beat Justine in Antwerp..

excuses :rolleyes:

Kim is the number three in the world, and she will stay there for a while, just as Justine will stay at #4.

I think Kim/Venus are both good players. I say that Ai was just incredible today, and had she been playing a Venus that was as far off her game as Kim was, she still would have emerged the victor (Serena could be belting balls to China with her opponent having the match of her life and still win:o ). As for Juju, I don't see her number four as being nearly as secure as Kim's number three. Capriati and Davenport might have something to say about that;) . (as could Hantuchova, Dokic when her act is together again, and pretty much any other top tenner)

Crazy Canuck
Mar 3rd, 2003, 05:04 PM
Is this an attempt to rub salt in certain fans wounds?

I may have a selective memory, but I don't seem to remember a majority of posters suggesting that she was number 2, unofficially. Au contraire, I seem to recall a number of people suggesting that she *could* but number 2 by Roland Garros or so. Which is still true, is it not?

Serendy Willick
Mar 3rd, 2003, 05:17 PM
Pam Shrivel and Mary Joe Fernandidiot said that along with Serena, Clisjsters is the most in form player since the start of the year. Not true,

Kim
Sydney (title)
Aussie Open Semis

Venus
Aussie Open finals
Antwerp (beating Kim)

I dont see how Pam Shrivel has come to this conclusion since Venus had had the better results so far.
Anyways, my main beef with these commentators is how they always seem to put the Williams in the converstation in a match that has nothing to do with them. It is very irritating. This is Kims match, do not talk about other opponents or what Kim so called "should've won" :rolleyes:

Crazy Canuck
Mar 3rd, 2003, 05:40 PM
Pam Shrivel and Mary Joe Fernandidiot said that along with Serena, Clisjsters is the most in form player since the start of the year. Not true,


Right - I didn't notice this. I make a note of ignoring both of them ;)

gentenaire
Mar 3rd, 2003, 05:45 PM
Pam Shrivel and Mary Joe Fernandidiot said that along with Serena, Clisjsters is the most in form player since the start of the year.

Well, that explains why they're not here, doesn't it?

Or do you believe that the Pam Shriver posting on WTAworld is the real Pam? ;)

CJ07
Mar 3rd, 2003, 07:01 PM
VENUS is the #2 player in the world...i'm sick of people just writing her off..

Hurley
Mar 3rd, 2003, 07:17 PM
Pam and Mary Joe said, direct quote, "the last six months," not the start of the year.

So add September through December, and their point holds more water.

King Lindsay
Mar 3rd, 2003, 09:05 PM
.... kim currently holds a more prestigious title than any that Venus holds. ;) Also, Kim's managed to do the one thing that has escaped Venus in the past year. Beat Serena. ;)

Of course, venus is the #2 player in the world, and deservedly so. there's no point in arguing with the rankings.

Amanda
Mar 3rd, 2003, 09:31 PM
How many grand slam finals has Kim been in lately? As a matter of fact who has been playing the grandslam finals lately? Only Venus and Serena. Kim just hasn't been able to live up to the "she is the one to stop the Williams". She has been defeated by both Venus and Serena this year...more soundly by Venus. The loss to Serena was just humiliating.

WtaTour4Ever
Mar 3rd, 2003, 09:54 PM
I think once again many of us are confusing ranking with better player, they are not one and the same. Secondly if Kim gets enough points to become #2 player, she deserves an will be #2 ranked player in the world.

I really don't see why it has to be a big brew hahaha. Do I still think Venus is a better player, YES, why, FIRST, I'm biased she is my fav, SECOND, until KIM can turn around her head 2 head, thats just how I see it. Plus, Venus is #2 with only 13 tournys, BUT, Venus knows what she needs to do to hold her ranking and if it is important enough to her to keep it, she will make it happen.

So what if Venus does become #3,Does that make it the end of the world........NO. Hopefully it will put a fire under her to claim her spot at the top. :-)

OK Thats my 2 cents:-)

ys
Mar 3rd, 2003, 10:02 PM
By rankings Kim has a very good chance to become #2, and by that possibly stop a string of AWFs.. especially given that to become #2 she will have all clay season at her disposal, the only surface when she is most capable of challenging Williams sisters.

Barring injuries, I think it is very likely that Kim will be seeded second at RG..

leslie
Mar 3rd, 2003, 10:07 PM
.... kim currently holds a more prestigious title than any that Venus holds. ;) Also, Kim's managed to do the one thing that has escaped Venus in the past year. Beat Serena. ;)

Of course, venus is the #2 player in the world, and deservedly so. there's no point in arguing with the rankings.


What is that prestigious title - Wimbeldon or maybe the US Open. :)

Jericho
Mar 3rd, 2003, 10:44 PM
Venus vs. Kim in 2003
Titles: 1-1
H2H: 1-0
GS: F - SF
Top 10 player beaten: 4 - 3
Matches Won: 10 - 15
Matches Lost: 1-3
Win/Loss %: 90.9% - 83.3%

*Venus hasnt lost a match let alone a set to anyone other than serena...

Of course Vee is my fave and im biased...

Crazy Canuck
Mar 3rd, 2003, 10:50 PM
What is that prestigious title - Wimbeldon or maybe the US Open. :)
Does Venus currently hold the Wimbledon or US Open titles, and I failed to notice?

King Lindsay
Mar 3rd, 2003, 10:53 PM
yeah, last i checked, venus doesn't seem to have wimbledon or the US open right now, but kim sure does have the masters.

SerenaSlam
Mar 4th, 2003, 02:43 AM
pam and mary jo are full out if, cuz let venus vs. kim happen and we get to see it in tv, and they are the commentators, they will be praising venus on why she is going to cruz past clijsters. they really get caught up in themselves!

ico4498
Mar 4th, 2003, 03:39 AM
Thawt kid stories always started with "Once upon a time" and ended with "They lived happily ever after"?

Shane54
Mar 4th, 2003, 03:55 AM
Well I think it was very premature to call Kim as the lock for the 3rd best player in the world. She beat an injured Venus at WTA champs., nope Venus withdraw in 1st set then beat a tired Serena in the finals. Then everyone was so desperate for someone to beat the Williams that they just ordained Kim. In actuality there are several players who I think can be no. 3 right now. Actually there is one we forget about b/c of some bad matches. And whether some of you want to admit it that woman is Jennifer. I believe that if Jennifer is on her game against Kim. Kim has the type of game that Jenn loves. And Kim is not Venus or Serena. That is one matchup I would love to see. So Kim is definetely not the no 2 player. That distinction w/o a doubt is Miss Venus Williams.

joao
Mar 4th, 2003, 04:19 AM
Kim has no chance to get the #2 seed for RG ... but her chances are pretty good for Wimbledon ... unless of course Venus wins RG!

The reason for that? Well it's all maths: right now kim is 1000 pts behind Venus. She could have shorten the gap with a win in Scottsdale but we all know what happened!
Even if Kim wins IW (not sure it will happen), because she 's the highest seed and Justine is not playing, the quality points available won't be that great. At best, she will make something like 450 pts but her best 17th tournament has 88 pts so basically she will only start to add if she reaches the QF. She might have 4400 pts after IW. If Serena and Venus battle for the title in Miami, then a SF reach in Miami will give kim at best 250 pts but she's defending 101 so add 150 to 4400. That's 4550. Of course if Venus reaches the finals in Miami or wins it, Venus will add points to her total (she only reached the SF last year) and will increase the gap again between her and Kim.


Expect Kim going back to Europe after Miami. She will have played for 4 straight weeks (Scottsdale, IW and Miami). I don't see her sticking in the USA for the clay-court events. That would be madness! Venus OTOH might defend her title in Amelia Island, she hasn't commited yet but she still has time. It's hard to tell because of the Fed Cup. But I expect Venus to play either Amelia Island/Fed Cup or Fed Cup/Warsaw.

Kim is defending champion in Hamburg. But the tournament has been canceled. So she will lose more pts than Venus who was RU. The gap will increase again! Of course I expect Kim to play Warsaw (to compensate those lost points), Berlin and Rome before RG. But Venus will definitely play at least one of those where she has no points to defend! And, Venus has a better chance to go farther in any tournament she enters than Kim!

Here you go ... Venus will be #2 seed in RG, behind Serena at #1!

If Venus wins RG, Kim won't be #2 seed at Wimbledon either! Her only chance is if Venus loses early.

CJ07
Mar 4th, 2003, 04:18 PM
Wimbledon Seedings
1. Venus Williams
2. Serena Williams
3. Justine Henin-Hardenne
4. Kim Clijsters

ohhh...suky suky now

earthcrystal
Mar 4th, 2003, 07:35 PM
Wimbledon Seedings
1. Venus Williams
2. Serena Williams
3. Justine Henin-Hardenne
4. Kim Clijsters

ohhh...suky suky now
Between now and Wimbledon:

Justine is defending 1077 points
Kim is defending 750

Justine is going to defend all those points plus make up the 300 + deficit? You're on drugs.

Oh, and Lindsay is defending 0.

Justine will be lucky to hold the 4 spot.

As for the point of this thread...I think it was Rebecca who hit the salty nail on the head.

venusfan
Mar 4th, 2003, 09:18 PM
Get over it people.. Clijchocker is a good player and will forever be hyped.. but until she can win a big title when the Williams Sisters are around she will ever be relegated to a spectator at 7 major tournaments.. except for the Year end thing last year when Venus had to retire and Capriati worked one over on Serena the day before the final..


Also:

If it was Venus vs Ai last sunday.. TRUST me.. and I know Venus plays like crap in 90% of her matches; She would never have lost to Ai.

ys
Mar 4th, 2003, 09:30 PM
If Serena and Venus battle for the title in Miami

That is still an "if".. The first question is "if" they both play Miami..

then a SF reach in Miami will give kim at best 250 pts but she's defending 101 so add 150 to 4400.


First "if", then "then"..

Expect Kim going back to Europe after Miami. She will have played for 4 straight weeks (Scottsdale, IW and Miami). I don't see her sticking in the USA for the clay-court events. That would be madness!


Why so?

IW and Miami are not Grand Slams. It is not 4 weeks of playing. It is two weeks of playing and two weeks off in between.

Venus OTOH might defend her title in Amelia Island


ANd now we have "might"..
And a lot of unfounded assumptions after that. For now we know one thing - Kim is playing tennis and Venus is not.

It is wide open, who will be #2 at RG. I'd say 60% - Venus, 40% - Kim.

Hulet
Mar 4th, 2003, 10:34 PM
...
It is wide open, who will be #2 at RG. I'd say 60% - Venus, 40% - Kim.
Accepting that number, there is still the 50-50 possibility that, despite kim being seeded #2 in RG and Venus #3, venus and serena being still drawn in opposite halfs. So, the probability that "AWF" final not happening due to the fact that they meet before the final is 20% (as a result of two independent events with 40% and 50% probability). Not a great number for who don't want to watch a "AWF".

To be honest, if I were a kim fan, I will be worried that she might be playing too much to attain the #2 rank and run out of energy when it comes to the slams.

Jericho
Mar 4th, 2003, 11:31 PM
There is a difference between 2nd best and 2nd ranked...venus IMO is definitely 2nd best, being 2nd ranked is up to venus whether she wants to keep it...

and also if vee does lose the #2 spot after roland garros, do you think Wimby will give her the #2 seed anyways since she has been to the finals 3 years in row and kim has done diddly squat...and since kim has a greater chance to be #2 before the US Open, do you think they will still give Venus the #2 seed because she is american and been to the finals the past 3 years??

CJ07
Mar 4th, 2003, 11:39 PM
The reason I say Justine Henin can get the #3 seed at Wimbledon is because no body thinks she can do squat

people are talking about Kim like shes the second coming

anyone remember the other players and how they reacted?

Anyway, both are great players. but after watching Clijsters against sugiyama and against Shaughnessy, when you allow her to dictate shes amazing but some how i think her 6-2 6-4 and 2-6 6-3 6-3 losses to the Willy's will continue.

And as for Williams-Williams finals, they have reached the final in EVERY tournament they have been seeded 1 and 2. Why change that now?
Venus is intentionally keeping a low profile to tweek her game and shut up little sis, she'll be back...and even if Clijsters gets the 2nd ranking, it doesnt mean shes the 2nd best player. Davenport is #7 and shes atleast the 4th best player.

Fingon
Mar 4th, 2003, 11:55 PM
I think Kim/Venus are both good players. I say that Ai was just incredible today, and had she been playing a Venus that was as far off her game as Kim was, she still would have emerged the victor (Serena could be belting balls to China with her opponent having the match of her life and still win:o ). As for Juju, I don't see her number four as being nearly as secure as Kim's number three. Capriati and Davenport might have something to say about that;) . (as could Hantuchova, Dokic when her act is together again, and pretty much any other top tenner)


Dokic? well coming from you I am not surprised but that's a stupid statement, even for you, Dokic is 1,300 point behind Justine and playing really bad, and Justine defends 2 points in RG.

Plus, I don't know why you have to bring Justine when the topic was Kim, a little obsessed aren't you?

PD: have you ever watched a tennis match?

o0O0o
Mar 5th, 2003, 12:02 AM
:eek: Fingon I like your candor. But I like mboyle. :fiery: But I'd be scared to argue with you, quite frankly. :worship:

CJ07
Mar 5th, 2003, 12:02 AM
also Justine is a scoch more talented than Kim is
if Justine hits the gym and just gets a bit stronger mentally, than i can see her ending the year ahead of clijsters

Havok
Mar 5th, 2003, 01:34 AM
definitely she can. Venus has HUGE points to defend in pretty much ALL of her tournaments, while Clijsters has pretty much nothing in quite a few of her tournaments, especially in the Slams. if she keeps up her form, she can pass Venus in 1 month, 2 months tops

1jackson2001
Mar 5th, 2003, 06:44 AM
I do think she can..I'd be interested in how Venus reacts when and if Kim passes her. This shall get interesting...;)

disposablehero
Mar 5th, 2003, 07:00 AM
... well, we WERE hearing a bit of that after OZ. Where are you guys?

It was a fair comparison at that time. Currently it is a bit more of a stretch.

stabelizebons
Mar 5th, 2003, 11:15 AM
Even if Kim gets the no.2 ranking( a huge if) she will never be better than Venus and remember ranking is just a number. Venus was no.3 in 2000 but there was no doubt who was the best player then.Kim´s playing like 22 tourny´s and she still has this gap?! I think when Venus sees that Kim is getting to close for comfort she will just add some more tournies and keep Kim at bay. To me Kim-hype died at the Oz open and was crushed in Belgium!!