View Full Version : Out right winners....

Mar 2nd, 2003, 06:55 AM
Besides players like Venus/Serena/Kim....

...i was looking at old stats, and found it interesting to see, if you take the total points won for 1 player, and sumbtrack their opponents errors from it, and see how many points they "won for themselves" and look at their winners, what is the majority that they hit a winner, or a they just win the points "forced error"...here is an example..

Jennifer vs. Serena 2002 Nasdaq


Total Poins Won 90 100

Seren won a total of 100pts, subtrack jennifer's errors in the match you have 62 points serena "technically won on her own", then you take that 62 and subtrack her 31 winners means half the time she is hitting winner, and the other half she is hitting a "forced error". Yall understand? Really who else beisides the sisters and say kim does this consistenly in their matches? Just most of the time, the points they do win, be winners or forced errors? Also, not basing this on Players against other ranked outside top 10, clearly someone like Jennifer/Lindsay/Monica easily would be added to the list if they were playing say myskina/demetieva, but say in a match like Jennifer vs. Kim, or Kim vs. Justine, do they do this, hit winners/forced errors half the time, or is it really just a "messy" match.

Mar 2nd, 2003, 07:03 AM
another good example it think...

Jennfier d. Seles 2002 Nasdaq



Clearly the match was in seles' hands. Jennifer on her own only won 68pts, and Seles on her own won 84 ponts, and out of those 84 she hit 38 winners. I think when you do this, it really tells you who was controlling the match, but when you have errors, you may be the one "that can control the match" but at the same time, the errors will make you loose, in this case, Monica lost. Intersting as well, I was thinking that jennifer would clearly have more winners in this match, she movement wise i used to say she is right up there w/ the sisters, but clearly that is not the case, b/c monica's matches against the sisters she is lucky to hit 20 winners. 2002 Us Open against Venus, seles only hit 6 winners venus hit 23, is that like a record low for her? But that showed me that monica clearly has a tougher time against a williams then cappy. But i really thought cappy would have higher numbers in both departments against seles.

Just to finish up on the Seles vs. Venus, seles had 18 errors and venus had 14, venus won 64 pts, seles won 39 pts. Subtrack Seles errors from venus' total points you have venus winning 46 pts, and of those she hit 23 winners, and we have another case of venus being able to in a match when she wins her points it's either a winner or forced error! Seles on the otherhand in this match, she was had more forced errors against venus than winners. thus venus' speed.

Mar 2nd, 2003, 08:21 AM
Jennifer is a special "big babe". Unlike most big babes [Davenport, Seles, Serena, Venus, Kim], she doesn't hit the ball close to the lines. She hits it hard, but I've noticed compared to the other big babes, her angles aren't that great, and her shots aren't that close to the line. Obviously there are some exceptions

Mar 2nd, 2003, 08:35 AM
Don't forget Aces and double faults ;)

they count in points won as well. ;)

In any case, good posts. Interesting read.

Mar 2nd, 2003, 08:57 PM
oh yes, forgot about the aces, winners, i thought they were included along w/ the winners? that is why i didn't include them.

Venus Forever
Mar 2nd, 2003, 09:00 PM
Aces and DF's ARE included in the Winners-UFE's.;)