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View Full Version : So was the crowd mean to Kim this time?


Jakeev
Mar 1st, 2003, 11:10 PM
After all the hoopla how the Belgium public treated Kim CLijsters opponents in Antwerp, I am wondering if the crowd in Scottsdale gave Kim the same treatment when she was up against home town fave Meghan Shaunessey?

E. Blackadder
Mar 1st, 2003, 11:12 PM
I didn't notice any of it on tv. It's only normal that the crowd supports there home country players. It gives a great atmosphere and as a 'top' player you should be ready to handle that.

SerenaSlam
Mar 1st, 2003, 11:29 PM
hoopla....there was this going on in Antwerp? or all you just causing some more nonshit bull shit?

Jakeev
Mar 1st, 2003, 11:29 PM
Exactly bud but not everybody thinks that way around here.....and as for you Serena Slam how bout your sorry ass pay attention.....all I heard was how bad the Belgium folks were so rude to Kim's opponents during that tournament.....

Jericho
Mar 1st, 2003, 11:40 PM
Exactly bud but not everybody thinks that way around here.....and as for you Serena Slam how bout your sorry ass pay attention.....all I heard was how bad the Belgium folks were so rude to Kim's opponents during that tournament.....

i thought they were only rude to venus :confused: ... :rolleyes:

E. Blackadder
Mar 1st, 2003, 11:43 PM
not everyone was rude...

there were some nasty kim fans over there, but you have those everywhere. Venus got a well deserved applause if she made a nice shot :rolleyes:

joaco
Mar 1st, 2003, 11:53 PM
I know this is off topic but... SerenaSlam what kind of signature do you have?! :eek: :confused:

Joaco

Becool
Mar 1st, 2003, 11:59 PM
BTW So what in Belgians fan being rude? There are rude ppl in everywhere!! Stop making the Belgians look like saints, cause I'm sure they're not!

SerenaSlam
Mar 2nd, 2003, 12:01 AM
bitch u must not get it, from the posts, and the people being there, the crowds were the exact same, some people "like u" just forget to open up they fuckin ears, or u are just a "kid" still and immature, and can't put certain clues "topics" together.

Hulet
Mar 2nd, 2003, 12:05 AM
After all the hoopla how the Belgium public treated Kim CLijsters opponents in Antwerp, I am wondering if the crowd in Scottsdale gave Kim the same treatment when she was up against home town fave Meghan Shaunessey?
Why? Did they boo kim today?

selesfan
Mar 2nd, 2003, 12:47 AM
Why? Did they boo kim today?

No, the crowd seems to be even in rooting for both players.

Jericho
Mar 2nd, 2003, 01:05 AM
i just watched the match and they were supporting both players, obviously more for meghan but there was no booing...so what the hell is jakeev talkin about??

Rocketta
Mar 2nd, 2003, 01:56 AM
What you mean the American crowd wasn't overwhelmingly for the Underdog??? :rolleyes:

How is that possible? I thought the American crowd was "Always" for the Underdog and will jeer & boo close line calls cause they want to see a new winner? :rolleyes: I guess that is not "True" all the time. hmmmmm?????

leslie
Mar 2nd, 2003, 02:00 AM
Haven't you people learned anything yet. They were two white girls playing the crowd is not going to boo either one of them and they will root evenly for both. The only people who are booed is V/S. If Serena was playing Megan tonight the crowd would be behind Megan and if Serena was playing Kim tonight the would be behind Kim. Why don't you people open your eyes and see the difference the crowd rooted the same way for both players tonight from what little of the boring match I saw.

Crazy Canuck
Mar 2nd, 2003, 02:32 AM
Leslie, have you ever been to a live tennis match?

Crazy Canuck
Mar 2nd, 2003, 02:37 AM
Let me elaborate...

Leslie, I ask if you have ever been to a live tennis match, based on your comment that when two white players play that they are rooted for equally, and that white people are never boo-ed.

Now, I'm not sure how old you are, or how many matches you've seen, or anything about you for that matter, but I'm going to chalk this comment up to lack of experience (the other option was stupidity, so take your pick).

If you honest think that white tennis players are never boo-ed, then I suggest that it's time to come out of that little box that you have been living in your entire life.

If you want to say that Venus and Serena have been jeered at more times in their career than any other white player, that would be a worthy, perhaps debatable comment, but one that actually has base.

However what you DID say, was flat out ridiculous.

maccardel
Mar 2nd, 2003, 02:40 AM
I think the crowd was rather mean to Kim. They threw an egg at her when she sat down after the first set.......

While Kim was playing, some dude was pulling Lleyton's hat down on his face...they were so rude...I think that is why Kim lost her concentration in the second set and the evening session was cancelled.....

I don't think Kim will be going back to Scottsdale anytime soon....

Isn't that the real reason serena bolted and Chanda tanked?.....They are pretty nasty in AZ .....I guess this was just a warm-up for the grand daddy of them all...Indian Wells.

leslie
Mar 2nd, 2003, 02:41 AM
Leslie, have you ever been to a live tennis match?

What is the reason for that question on weather I have been to a live tennis match. My post is 100% true. Maybe you have never been to a live tennis match. I am not in denial of what I see and hear in these tennis matches when V/S are playing against their opponents both here in the U.S and overseas.

angele87
Mar 2nd, 2003, 02:45 AM
Ok whoever thinks that the only reason people hate Venus and Serena is because they're black, raise your hand!

maccardel
Mar 2nd, 2003, 02:50 AM
Ok whoever thinks that the only reason people hate Venus and Serena is because they're black, raise your hand!



What kinda request is that?...for crying out loud, you can't see us....I think you are taking this message board too seriously....lol.just kidding of course.

o0O0o
Mar 2nd, 2003, 02:54 AM
leslie you continually stoop to new lows. It's because they're black huh? Yes, then tell me why Hingis couldn't even LOOK at a linesperson without getting booed and jeered in every match she has played in the last five years? Is it because of her white skin?

No, I'll tell you why her and Serena and Venus get booed.

A bitch is a bitch is a bitch. If you're favorite is a bitch, the fans make them eat dirt. :kiss: You have to grow up and deal with it. You can't cry just because not everyone likes your favorite. So enough crying leslie.

Anyway, the crowd today was respectable, although cleary on Meghann's side. And considering that the stadium is VERY TINY and wasn't completely sold-out, the atmosphere was very relaxed.

harloo
Mar 2nd, 2003, 02:55 AM
Ok whoever thinks that the only reason people hate Venus and Serena is because they're black, raise your hand!\\ :rolleyes: :o

The sad fact remains that if either sister was playing Megan tonight they would be booed at some point. I have learned that this is just the way it works, and I have been to live tennis matches. :rolleyes:

Freewoman33
Mar 2nd, 2003, 02:58 AM
What you mean the American crowd wasn't overwhelmingly for the Underdog??? :rolleyes:

How is that possible? I thought the American crowd was "Always" for the Underdog and will jeer & boo close line calls cause they want to see a new winner? :rolleyes: I guess that is not "True" all the time. hmmmmm?????

Rocketta, see the post right below yours.

o0O0o
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:00 AM
:)

And I would be the first to boo!

:drool:

glorious, I say!

I've been to a few matches at the old Philadelphia tournament, and I've found that tennis crowds are unbelievably respectable. If you're favorite can't take a few boos than they need HELP. Then again women's tennis is the only sport I know of where it is 'unacceptable' to boo. Hasn't anyone here been to any other sporting event?

Chance
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:11 AM
Serenaslam why are you so aggressive, are you on steroids?

Cybelle Darkholme
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:16 AM
:)

And I would be the first to boo!

:drool:

glorious, I say!

I've been to a few matches at the old Philadelphia tournament, and I've found that tennis crowds are unbelievably respectable. If you're favorite can't take a few boos than they need HELP. Then again women's tennis is the only sport I know of where it is 'unacceptable' to boo. Hasn't anyone here been to any other sporting event?


This is one point I agree with. personally I love to boo the lakers. I dislike the lakers. They suck so I boo. I must also admit to booing martina during several matches I saw live. It was fun! :kiss:

Of course booing double faults and things like that just shows how desperate you are for your favorite to win as if they needed the help somehow against a better opponent.

I would also like to add just because a player is booed in one tournament for whatever reason doesn't mean they will be booed in every tournament. Sheesh some of you act like venus and serena are stoned every time they step on court! Please! They are loved throughout the world. Yes they are booed sometimes but the only outrageous instance of booing was the indian wells 2001 which was a personal attack imo.

Anyway who cares? The morons who boo have the right to do so as long as it doesnt disrupt play.

o0O0o
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:23 AM
The Lakers! I still smile recalling Kobe being booed after winning the All-Star MVP award... :)

Cybelle Darkholme
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:29 AM
The Lakers! I still smile recalling Kobe being booed after winning the All-Star MVP award... :)


Why stop at smiling? I was literally laughing on the floor with my friends.

NO MORE LAKERS CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!!

Rocketta
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:29 AM
I personal don't care if people boo everytime they step on court I'm just tired of hearing the lie that Americans always root for the underdog. Not only do they always root for the underdog they jeer line calls and boo close calls all the time when they are rooting for the underdog. This is not true of course and if that type of behavior toward Venus and Serena only happen at certain tournaments then yeah those people root for the underdog and that's what's behind everything. However, this type of treatment is happening now with more frequency and its not cause the American Crowd always enthusiastically roots for the underdog. :rolleyes:

That is what I'm tired of. Maybe its not cause they're black but maybe it is all I do know is that the reason is definitely not because the American crowds "always" root for the underdog because they clearly don't, imo.

o0O0o
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:33 AM
I agree Rocketta. But ultimately, the player who had the most fans support her on a given day will have crowd support. Ex. See Guga Kuerten and his annoying entorage of immature idiots.

But I don't think this match was the best example, because the crowd was behind Meghann, although they didn't boo Kim.

Venus+Serena#1fan
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:35 AM
didnt notice anything too wierd as far as the crowd goes.

Cybelle Darkholme
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:38 AM
I still dont' understand why the booing is such a big deal? Venus knew way back in 97 that the crowds would one day stop cheering for her. There is quote somewhere. My point is SHE KNEW. The cheering the booing it doesn't bother them.

Except at indian wells which was like I said before a debacle.

At any rate if they are still playing in ten years, trust me the crowd will be cheering again. America builds you up tears you down and then cheers your comeback. The only way to go is to ignore it like venus so elegantly does. :worship:

o0O0o
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:40 AM
Yea wasn't Monica booed early on? She is always a crowd favorite now.

And I think Hingis was cheered for a lot in her disastrous mini-comeback late last year.

Rocketta
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:40 AM
But I don't think this match was the best example, because the crowd was behind Meghann, although they didn't boo Kim.

Well frankly that's the part I have a problem with the aggressive booing and jeering from some crowds when there was nothing to boo and jeer. Crowds respectfully pulling for someone if more than fine the other is what I have a problem with. If it was basketball or football or baseball or another sport that all teams are subject to boos then so be it. However, that is not the case in tennis.

Venus and Serena handle it wonderfully but It still bugs me that my favs get very little respect, which they deserve, from their home crowd. Having respect doesn't mean you should root for them but at least respect the fact that they are champions and are winning fair and square.

Cybelle Darkholme
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:42 AM
Well frankly that's the part I have a problem with the aggressive booing and jeering from some crowds when there was nothing to boo and jeer. Crowds respectfully pulling for someone if more than fine the other is what I have a problem with. If it was basketball or football or baseball or another sport that all teams are subject to boos then so be it. However, that is not the case in tennis.

Venus and Serena handle it wonderfully but It still bugs me that my favs get very little respect, which they deserve, from their home crowd. Having respect doesn't mean you should root for them but at least respect the fact that they are champions and are winning fair and square.


Rocketta I just chalk it up to bitterness and envy and move on. Im too busy cheering vee and rena to worry about a few knuckleheads.

Rocketta
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:44 AM
I still dont' understand why the booing is such a big deal? Venus knew way back in 97 that the crowds would one day stop cheering for her. There is quote somewhere. My point is SHE KNEW. The cheering the booing it doesn't bother them.

Except at indian wells which was like I said before a debacle.

At any rate if they are still playing in ten years, trust me the crowd will be cheering again. America builds you up tears you down and then cheers your comeback. The only way to go is to ignore it like venus so elegantly does. :worship:

Its the lack of respect that goes with it. Personally I know they are more than capable of handling it. That's only a small part of why I love them and Richard for preparing them. Doesn't mean it still doesn't irk me especially the rationalizations.

Actually the rationalizations bother more than the booing.

Rocketta
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:46 AM
Rocketta I just chalk it up to bitterness and envy and move on. Im too busy cheering vee and rena to worry about a few knuckleheads.

Yeah I hear you. :wavey:

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:53 AM
I wish more players WERE booed.....it makes the game more entertaining. The players are adults and can control their own emotions.

The more the crowd is "into" the match, the more likely it will attract more fans.

More fans = more tv time :)

LeonHart
Mar 2nd, 2003, 04:11 AM
There was no booing, but it was obvious the crowd was behind Megan. That's all.

Crazy Canuck
Mar 2nd, 2003, 04:19 AM
The sad fact remains that if either sister was playing Megan tonight they would be booed at some point. I have learned that this is just the way it works, and I have been to live tennis matches.

I'm thinking that my point was missed, seeing as you brought up the bit about live tennis matches.

Leslie CLEARLY stated that NO white players are ever booed, and that when white players play each other they are rooted for evenly.

This is the biggest pile of horse crap that I have heard today.

My point had absolutely nothing to do with a white player beeing cheered for over Serena or Venus.

Crazy Canuck
Mar 2nd, 2003, 04:22 AM
See Guga Kuerten and his annoying entorage of immature idiots.


Why do you call the his rather animated group of fans that attend his matches, "immature idiots"? Because they don't sit quietly with their legs crossed, golf clapping after each point? Welcome to South American tennis.

Jakeev
Mar 2nd, 2003, 07:13 AM
Ahhhh SerenaSlam the latest ignoramous to grace our board. You hang around the same school as that other moron leslie I take it? PAy friggen attention to whats going on around here you stupid idiot or don't respond with out reading what is being talked about.

Anyway, point is to echo what Rebecca just said I guess people need to lighten up and remember tennis is not a soccer or footbool match and they are not allowed to root for their favorite player........

:rolleyes:

Glenn
Mar 2nd, 2003, 07:41 AM
Haven't you people learned anything yet. They were two white girls playing the crowd is not going to boo either one of them and they will root evenly for both. The only people who are booed is V/S. If Serena was playing Megan tonight the crowd would be behind Megan and if Serena was playing Kim tonight the would be behind Kim. Why don't you people open your eyes and see the difference the crowd rooted the same way for both players tonight from what little of the boring match I saw.

I'm afraid that has nothing to do with them being black, just their attitude, style of play etc.
People tend to root for the underdog, which is everyone in Serena and Venus' case.
Get over yourself, you're pracitcly asking for racism!

ico4498
Mar 2nd, 2003, 07:46 AM
Let 'em boo to 'til their heart's content. If yah paid to get in, yah should be able to indulge some dark fantasies. Well ... maybe some non-dark fantasies.

If yah don't believe the crowd's response to Venus and Serena is atypical ... you're senseless ... deaf, dumb and blind.

If you believe there's no racial component to the unrelenting indifference ... well, jes' subtract the deaf and blind.

Kim played well enough to win. In straight sets no less. She displayed great resolve in the second set. I've little criticism for the victor. Thunk she mightah stepped into a few of those loopy shots Megan offered like prayers. But ... she won anyway.

Is it just me or does Megan, who still looks like she needs a sammwich, look less like she needed a sammwich, than ever before?
I declare, the girl is starting to fill out her frame.

caramel
Mar 2nd, 2003, 08:05 AM
They weren´t mean to Kim , they were just supporting their "local hero" Meghann. :p It´s pretty normal that the local players usually get more support from "their" audience than the others.

lala
Mar 2nd, 2003, 09:03 AM
They weren´t mean to Kim , they were just supporting their "local hero" Meghann. :p It´s pretty normal that the local players usually get more support from "their" audience than the others.

Shame Venus or Serena are never the local players, especially at home!!!!

tennnisfannn
Mar 2nd, 2003, 09:50 AM
I'm thinking that my point was missed, seeing as you brought up the bit about live tennis matches.

Leslie CLEARLY stated that NO white players are ever booed, and that when white players play each other they are rooted for evenly.

This is the biggest pile of horse crap that I have heard today.

My point had absolutely nothing to do with a white player beeing cheered for over Serena or Venus.

Guys for the most part crowds are usually o.k but you have got to accept that there are always some nasties who will boo for whatever reason. they are the ones out to cause trouble and quite frankly they do not really care about the player they are supposed to be cheering for. Booing and jeering disrupt BOTH players not just one. Remember at last years uso, the crowd were fully in support of monica and she had to yell out to them to be quiet (either against hingis or venus, i will confirm that)
Why did Kim lose IW in 2001. Kim wasn't the player she is today and neither was Serena. I believe she got disrupted by the crowd.
Venus and Serena aren't the first ones to be jeered at, but believe me when you make it to the top,the gloves are off. Ask Hingis about her experience at the FO 2001 and that was for 'crime' commited years before.
having said that , the reason I admire venus and serena so much is for their fierce independence on court and determination to win despite it all. they know as long as the crowd aren't gonna be throwing rocks at them, that is all it is -JUST NOISE. no crowd is going to come and win a match for you. On the positive side, you do not have the added pressure of trying to please the crowd for all their overwhelming support.

leslie
Mar 2nd, 2003, 12:14 PM
O.K. they were supporting they "local hero" then why in the hell can Venus and Serena get any support when they are playing in their own country. At the US Open when Venus was play Amelia they booed venus and appauladed her double faults and to hell with that underdog theory it does not work any more. How in the name of peace a country could root against their own country woman is beyond me. At the Australian Open if thoes idiots could have gone the court they probably would have tried to lynch Serena. Did you hear that one guy who told her to "get on with it". What kind of shit is that. She got on with it alright didn't she. Even at the end they booed Serena. You people only see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. Everytime V/S steps on a tennis court the crowd is never for them stop living in denial people.

angele87
Mar 2nd, 2003, 01:00 PM
I don't think anybody is denying the fact that people boo Venus and Serena... anybody? *looks around* my problem is that everytime the issue of Venus and Serena being booed comes up, so does the race issue. IMO, the two don't necessarily go together. Sometimes, yes, they might but during Antwerp and during the AO as well, some people have said that they only reason Venus and Serena were booed is because of race which I think is crap. Both in Belgium and in Australia Kim is a huge fan favorite, people love her and it is my experience that Kim fans are less than likely to be Williams fan. Now I can't talk for everybody but if I had to guess, I'd say the reason for that is that Kim and the sisters have personalities that are way different so somebody who loves Kim's easy going and sweet style may not like the sisters more determined, arrogant ways...

Anyways I'm not blind or stupid so I will admit that some people may not like Venus and Serena because of race but please everybody realize that that's not the only reason why they're booed!

leslie
Mar 2nd, 2003, 02:58 PM
I don't think anybody is denying the fact that people boo Venus and Serena... anybody? *looks around* my problem is that everytime the issue of Venus and Serena being booed comes up, so does the race issue. IMO, the two don't necessarily go together. Sometimes, yes, they might but during Antwerp and during the AO as well, some people have said that they only reason Venus and Serena were booed is because of race which I think is crap. Both in Belgium and in Australia Kim is a huge fan favorite, people love her and it is my experience that Kim fans are less than likely to be Williams fan. Now I can't talk for everybody but if I had to guess, I'd say the reason for that is that Kim and the sisters have personalities that are way different so somebody who loves Kim's easy going and sweet style may not like the sisters more determined, arrogant ways...

Anyways I'm not blind or stupid so I will admit that some people may not like Venus and Serena because of race but please everybody realize that that's not the only reason why they're booed!

Because someone is confident determined and assured of him/herself you are calling them arrogant. Maybe if Kim was confident, determined and arragant she would have won that match against Serena the the AO. Please tell me the only reason why they are booed. These are two young ladies who never say any thing negative about their opponents even when their opponents are putting them down and believe me they are put down alot by the other jealous players. I can just read inbetween the lines of your post that you are a racist. When and if you have kids please raise them to be arrogant, confident and determined they will go far in this world with confidence. Idiot.

Crazy Canuck
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:20 PM
I can just read inbetween the lines of your post that you are a racist.

The great thing about your posts leslie, is that one doesn't have to read "inbetween" the lines to realise that you are a total dipshit :)

Crazy Canuck
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:24 PM
Guys for the most part crowds are usually o.k but you have got to accept that there are always some nasties who will boo for whatever reason. they are the ones out to cause trouble and quite frankly they do not really care about the player they are supposed to be cheering for. Booing and jeering disrupt BOTH players not just one. Remember at last years uso, the crowd were fully in support of monica and she had to yell out to them to be quiet (either against hingis or venus, i will confirm that)
Why did Kim lose IW in 2001. Kim wasn't the player she is today and neither was Serena. I believe she got disrupted by the crowd.
Venus and Serena aren't the first ones to be jeered at, but believe me when you make it to the top,the gloves are off. Ask Hingis about her experience at the FO 2001 and that was for 'crime' commited years before.
having said that , the reason I admire venus and serena so much is for their fierce independence on court and determination to win despite it all. they know as long as the crowd aren't gonna be throwing rocks at them, that is all it is -JUST NOISE. no crowd is going to come and win a match for you. On the positive side, you do not have the added pressure of trying to please the crowd for all their overwhelming support.
Why are you replying to my post? Most of this has anything to do with what I said. I fail to see why you've quoted me, and went on about how we just have to "accept" blah blah blah, when I havent' posted anything to the contrary.

Hulet
Mar 2nd, 2003, 03:48 PM
No, the crowd seems to be even in rooting for both players.
Then, I don't see the point of starting this thread.

gentenaire
Mar 2nd, 2003, 04:04 PM
O.K. they were supporting they "local hero" then why in the hell can Venus and Serena get any support when they are playing in their own country. At the US Open when Venus was play Amelia they booed venus and appauladed her double faults and to hell with that underdog theory it does not work any more. How in the name of peace a country could root against their own country woman is beyond me


Leslie, I suggest you check the latest world sports results. How many grand slams have been won by Americans in a row?


How many grand slams have been won by a Belgian? 0! What's the best sports result Belgians can feel proud of? Eddy Merckx in cycling, how many people in the world know him? We made it the semis once at the WC football. What I'm trying to say is that having two top tennis players is a HUUUUGGGE deal! It's not minor, it's not normal, we're not used to it, it's unique and it's going to be a very long time until we get another top athlete. So yes, we're behind these two players 100%. We would so love to have a Belgian grand slam winner for once, it's never happened before.

Is American history being rewritten because you have two top tennis players who're dominating the tennis world? I don't think so. I think you're used to it by now. If one American player loses, you've got nothing to worry about, there's another dozen waiting.

Belgium dominates cyclo cross (= cyling in mud basically ;) ). I can assure that there are Belgians who root against certain Belgian cyclists.

maccardel
Mar 2nd, 2003, 04:14 PM
I think Leslie as well as everyone else up here is entitled to their opinions.....therefore it's up to us all if we want to respond and how we choose to respond. I don't like the personal attacks on any poster....calling someone racist or idiot only because that poster posted something you didn't like...come on....Leslie proved her point by posting her opinions and everyone calling her idiot or whatever is rude and proves her point......there you go.

angele87
Mar 2nd, 2003, 04:44 PM
Because someone is confident determined and assured of him/herself you are calling them arrogant. Maybe if Kim was confident, determined and arragant she would have won that match against Serena the the AO. Please tell me the only reason why they are booed. These are two young ladies who never say any thing negative about their opponents even when their opponents are putting them down and believe me they are put down alot by the other jealous players. I can just read inbetween the lines of your post that you are a racist. When and if you have kids please raise them to be arrogant, confident and determined they will go far in this world with confidence. Idiot.
IMO, Serena and Venus (but more Serena) are arrogant! Why? Because it seems to me that I've heard them say a lot how bad they were playing after crushing an opponent and no, that's not flat out insulting the other player but it's pretty damn close. And Serena saying she was tired after Kim beat her, that really pissed me off :mad: And I recall a quote from Serena about her good figure during the US Open which I found very :rolleyes:

I can't tell you the only reason they're booed because there's more than one reason... for some it might be race and some others just plain out don't like em! Tell me leslie, are there any players that you don't like? If there are, and I assume there must be, then please don't call me a racist just because I don't like Venus and Serena. What about Chanda? I like her and my favorite golfer? Tiger Woods :D I'm a huge basketball fan as well even though Vince Carter has been out and injured a lot but hey, Iverson is having a pretty good year!

If you ever have kids, please tell them not to call anybody any name without flat out proof because reading in between the lines ain't gonna cut it!

You were talking about being in denial earlier, well I think perhaps you should look in the mirror on that one. It seems to me that you think Venus and Serena are perfect and that they have no flaws, that the only possible reason anybody could possibly dislike them is because of their skin color :confused: I don't accuse everybody that doesn't like Kim of having something against whites, or belgians... I realize that Kim isn't perfect and that not everybody is gonna like her. I can deal with that!

E. Blackadder
Mar 2nd, 2003, 04:56 PM
Tine, I think we can be very proud of Ulla Werbrouck and Gella Vandecaveye in judo too. ;)

But as you say, this is a big deal for a small and almost non-existent country like us

angele87
Mar 2nd, 2003, 04:57 PM
And leslie, can you show me the same respect that I've shown you please? I was careful not to start name calling since you not agreeing with my opinion isn't grounds for calling you an idiot...

Callie20
Mar 2nd, 2003, 05:33 PM
I watched the match last night, and I felt that the crowd was warm towards Kim. They didn't treat her the way that many crowds have treated Venus and Serena in the past. Actually, while I was watching the match, I was wondering if they would have been as susceptible to Venus or Serena as they were towards Kim.

leslie
Mar 2nd, 2003, 06:47 PM
IMO, Serena and Venus (but more Serena) are arrogant! Why? Because it seems to me that I've heard them say a lot how bad they were playing after crushing an opponent and no, that's not flat out insulting the other player but it's pretty damn close. And Serena saying she was tired after Kim beat her, that really pissed me off :mad: And I recall a quote from Serena about her good figure during the US Open which I found very :rolleyes:

I can't tell you the only reason they're booed because there's more than one reason... for some it might be race and some others just plain out don't like em! Tell me leslie, are there any players that you don't like? If there are, and I assume there must be, then please don't call me a racist just because I don't like Venus and Serena. What about Chanda? I like her and my favorite golfer? Tiger Woods :D I'm a huge basketball fan as well even though Vince Carter has been out and injured a lot but hey, Iverson is having a pretty good year!

If you ever have kids, please tell them not to call anybody any name without flat out proof because reading in between the lines ain't gonna cut it!

You were talking about being in denial earlier, well I think perhaps you should look in the mirror on that one. It seems to me that you think Venus and Serena are perfect and that they have no flaws, that the only possible reason anybody could possibly dislike them is because of their skin color :confused: I don't accuse everybody that doesn't like Kim of having something against whites, or belgians... I realize that Kim isn't perfect and that not everybody is gonna like her. I can deal with that!

Who do you think you are fooling? Ofcourse you like Chanda she is not the 1 or 2 player she is not preventing Kim from winning a slam she can't even win a slam herself and she will never win one. From what I can tell chanda is a punk. When she plays V/S she goes after them with a vengence and when she plays the other players she plays in a subservient manner like she's not suppose to beat a white player. I have no respect for her. Sure you are going to like her. You sound just like thoes people who say "oh I like black people I have a black friend". You like chanda and you like Tiger oh, give me a break. I see right through you from your post. You can't fool me stranger.

angele87
Mar 2nd, 2003, 06:54 PM
Who do you think you are fooling? Ofcourse you like Chanda she is not the 1 or 2 player she is not preventing Kim from winning a slam she can't even win a slam herself and she will never win one. From what I can tell chanda is a punk. When she plays V/S she goes after them with a vengence and when she plays the other players she plays in a subservient manner like she's not suppose to beat a white player. I have no respect for her. Sure you are going to like her. You sound just like thoes people who say "oh I like black people I have a black friend". You like chanda and you like Tiger oh, give me a break. I see right through you from your post. You can't fool me stranger.
Erm ok, whatever lol... My saying I liked Chanda and Tiger and Vince and Allen and whoever was just to prove that *GASP* the reason I don't like Venus and Serena could be something other than their skin color :eek: :eek: :eek:

IMO, you need to let go of the idea that Venus and Serena are perfect because they aren't, nobody is!!

angele87
Mar 2nd, 2003, 06:55 PM
Could you just answer me one thing leslie? What leads you to believe that I am a racist?

maccardel
Mar 2nd, 2003, 07:01 PM
Sometimes it is not bad to expect the best of yourself even when others think we have given our best somehow something inside is telling us that's not the best...it still can be better....


I don't find it arrogant at all....it's call self expectations and wanting the best......

There's no need to ask for anyone's forgiveness for being confident.....Because we have different limits that we place on ourselves doesn't mean we have to knock those who have higher limits..

I just want to play tennis and win or lose I just don't care...some ppl just want to win or some just want to improve technically...everyone have different limits...

Mercury Rising
Mar 2nd, 2003, 07:05 PM
Who do you think you are fooling? Ofcourse you like Chanda she is not the 1 or 2 player she is not preventing Kim from winning a slam she can't even win a slam herself and she will never win one. From what I can tell chanda is a punk. When she plays V/S she goes after them with a vengence and when she plays the other players she plays in a subservient manner like she's not suppose to beat a white player. I have no respect for her. Sure you are going to like her. You sound just like thoes people who say "oh I like black people I have a black friend". You like chanda and you like Tiger oh, give me a break. I see right through you from your post. You can't fool me stranger.
OMG :eek: HI-LA-RI-OUS http://216.40.249.192/s/otn/laughing/yelrotflmao.gif

Where do they keep coming from?

angele87
Mar 2nd, 2003, 07:08 PM
I think Serena and Venus have the right to be arrogant if they want to be and can be determined and only want to win or whatever, it's their right but that sort of personality does not appeal to me however some people cannot understand that. I love Kim's easy-going spirit and I love how she doesn't get down after losses because it's only tennis however I realize that some people would rather see somebody who's more intense and for that reason, Kim's personality does not appeal to them... and that's fine, to each his own! What I do have a problem with is being called a racist when I am not!

angele87
Mar 2nd, 2003, 07:09 PM
OMG :eek: HI-LA-RI-OUS http://216.40.249.192/s/otn/laughing/yelrotflmao.gif

Where do they keep coming from?
lol :D

:kiss:

Crazy Canuck
Mar 2nd, 2003, 07:11 PM
angele87 -

You really don't need to defend yourself. Anybody who reads anything that leslie has ever written on this board can see that she has absolutely nothing of value to say. Indeed, I reckon that dogshit has about the same number of neurons that she has between her ears.

Crazy Canuck
Mar 2nd, 2003, 07:14 PM
I might also add, that anybody on this board who pisses and moans that people mock out how often the word "racist" is thrown around here, needs to look no further than leslie here to understand why it is that people are mocking such a serious issue.

It is impossible to take anything like this seriously, when you have a 5th grader like leslie throwing up everything that I would have to assume her elders have told her, in a rather demented, twisted fashion...

Crazy Canuck
Mar 2nd, 2003, 07:15 PM
For what it's worth, I'm still waiting for the genius of Leslie, to back up her point about how white players are never booed against. :p

Mercury Rising
Mar 2nd, 2003, 07:23 PM
lol :D

:kiss:
Hehe :kiss:

Don't worry Angele, no SANE person believes you are racist.

And what Becca sais, and she says it good :worship:

Rocketta
Mar 2nd, 2003, 07:28 PM
Is American history being rewritten because you have two top tennis players who're dominating the tennis world? I don't think so. I think you're used to it by now. If one American player loses, you've got nothing to worry about, there's another dozen waiting.




Yes American History is being rewritten!!! Since when have we had two African-American sisters as number one and two?? When was the last time we had the same two finalist in the last 4 and counting grandslams? When was the last time America had an African-American woman win 4 consecutive slams? I think the answer is never. So there is no excuse for America not to revel in all this history that they are making, they just choose not to. I totally understand why the country of Belgium would be estatic about their players but frankly Venus and Serena are charting just as much uncharted territory, history wise as Kim and Justine.

Now change America with the World and you see there is really no reason for anyone to not rejoice in all this history that is being rewritten.

angele87
Mar 2nd, 2003, 08:05 PM
Thanks Becca and Noodles :kiss: I tend to stay out of GM so I don't think I've ever encountered leslie before :o

Jennifer's wife
Mar 2nd, 2003, 08:25 PM
Sheesh some of you act like venus and serena are stoned every time they step on court!

no that would be Jen! ;) :p who has also been bood many a time but just turns to the crowd and yells "shut the hell up!" (A.O final 2002) thats how to deal with it!! :worship:

and im still waitin for leslie to explain that jenny was only bood coz she's black!!! :D :rolleyes:

leslie
Mar 2nd, 2003, 09:01 PM
I think Serena and Venus have the right to be arrogant if they want to be and can be determined and only want to win or whatever, it's their right but that sort of personality does not appeal to me however some people cannot understand that. I love Kim's easy-going spirit and I love how she doesn't get down after losses because it's only tennis however I realize that some people would rather see somebody who's more intense and for that reason, Kim's personality does not appeal to them... and that's fine, to each his own! What I do have a problem with is being called a racist when I am not!

I see that word "racist" bothers you a lot and that tells me a LOT about you. Usually people who are racist are always very defensive when call a racist. Believe me I can read from your messages and know for a fact that you are truly a racist. I bet you are going to tell me you have a black friend at work or school. Sad, sad, sad.

leslie
Mar 2nd, 2003, 09:06 PM
Thanks Becca and Noodles :kiss: I tend to stay out of GM so I don't think I've ever encountered leslie before :o
angele87, you are truly pathetic, you need confirmation from Becca and Noodles to say you are not a racist, how sad is that.

gentenaire
Mar 2nd, 2003, 09:09 PM
Yes American History is being rewritten!!! Since when have we had two African-American sisters as number one and two?? When was the last time we had the same two finalist in the last 4 and counting grandslams? When was the last time America had an African-American woman win 4 consecutive slams? I think the answer is never. So there is no excuse for America not to revel in all this history that they are making, they just choose not to. I totally understand why the country of Belgium would be estatic about their players but frankly Venus and Serena are charting just as much uncharted territory, history wise as Kim and Justine.

Now change America with the World and you see there is really no reason for anyone to not rejoice in all this history that is being rewritten.

Rocketta, I mean from an American point of view. Belgians rooting against Kim and Justine would be as strange as African Americans rooting against Venus and Serena. I simply feel the whole 'Belgians are behind their players, so should Americans' is the wrong analogy.

And Leslie :rolleyes:

Angèle, don't let them get to you. I've posed the question "what does someone who doesn't like the Williams sisters have to do to convince them the dislike is not based on race? "several times but I've never received an answer because there is no answer. A lot of Williams fans see this as a fact and there's nothing we can do to change that point of view.

Jennifer's wife
Mar 2nd, 2003, 09:11 PM
duz that mean im a hetrophobe (thats a good word me thinx! :p ) if i say i hav lots of straight freinds? :confused:

gentenaire
Mar 2nd, 2003, 09:14 PM
duz that mean im a hetrophobe (thats a good word me thinx! :p ) if i say i hav lots of straight freinds? :confused:

Jennifermarie, you're pathetic, you need confirmation from people like us to say you're a hetrophobe, how sad is that.

Jennifer's wife
Mar 2nd, 2003, 09:18 PM
Jennifermarie, you're pathetic, you need confirmation from people like us to say you're a hetrophobe, how sad is that.

ermm....i dont think the phrase exists actually! i made it up in an attempt at sarcastic irony!! :p oh well........

gentenaire
Mar 2nd, 2003, 09:25 PM
ermm....i dont think the phrase exists actually! i made it up in an attempt at sarcastic irony!! :p oh well........

Erh...read Leslie's last post, a few posts above mine and you'll understand.

It was my attempt at irony;)

Jennifer's wife
Mar 2nd, 2003, 09:29 PM
Erh...read Leslie's last post, a few posts above mine and you'll understand.

It was my attempt at irony;)

aha!! i get it!! that'll teach me not to pay close attention to the bollox pple write!!! :o and did i make that word up or has sum1 used it b4? im curious now *lookin for deep in thought smilie*

Layla
Mar 2nd, 2003, 09:32 PM
I see that word "racist" bothers you a lot and that tells me a LOT about you. Usually people who are racist are always very defensive when call a racist. Believe me I can read from your messages and know for a fact that you are truly a racist. I bet you are going to tell me you have a black friend at work or school. Sad, sad, sad.

Yes, because normally, it shouldn't bother anyone if he/she is accused of being a racist for no apparent reason. What a silly concept! Of course, if they protest, they must be guilty! Tell you what, why don't you do a little social experiment - go out on the street and call random people you meet racists, then come back here and tell me how they reacted. But wait a minute, what am I saying, they ARE all racists so it's only natural that they will react. :rolleyes:

Angele was kind enough to try to convince you you were wrong about her, even though she absolutely didn't have to justify herself to you, but she might as well have been talking to a wall. She'd be better off too, because at least the wall doesn't scream back nonsense.

As for your claims that white tennis player's don't get booed - is there a reason why you've answered almost every post here, yet failed to respond to what Rebecca and others said regarding that topic and admit that you were wrong? I haven't seen all that many women's matches in my life, but even I recall clearly when Ana Kournikova was booed viciously and clearly not so long a go, unless I'm deaf, dumb and blind and on top of everything I was having hallucinations?

And for the record, I don't like it when people boo and I don't like vicious crowds, so I don't condone the way the Antwerp crowd behaved. But put it into perspective. In a ski race, some jerks were throwing snowballs at Anja Paerson while she was skiing. And no, she isn't black. ;) Do you even know how fast skiers are and how dangerous that is? Compared to that, tennis is really one of the more polite sports. But you seem to know all about racism and far, far less about the sport you profess to be a fan of. And the knowledge that you do have, you conveniently forget or repress if it doesn't serve your point, at least judging from your bold statement that no other player besides Venus and Serena is ever booed.

Have fun reading between the lines! :wavey:

Layla
Mar 2nd, 2003, 09:35 PM
Jennifermarie, you're pathetic, you need confirmation from people like us to say you're a hetrophobe, how sad is that.

LMAO! :D

Jennifer's wife
Mar 2nd, 2003, 10:33 PM
LMAO! :D

yea it was funny wen i got the joke!! (d'uh!)

so, goin with this theory, duz that mean im not a racist if i say i am one? :confused: just so i know where i am! :rolleyes:

Crazy Canuck
Mar 2nd, 2003, 10:40 PM
I see that word "racist" bothers you a lot and that tells me a LOT about you. Usually people who are racist are always very defensive when call a racist. Believe me I can read from your messages and know for a fact that you are truly a racist. I bet you are going to tell me you have a black friend at work or school. Sad, sad, sad.

How exactly do people like this happen?

Ryan
Mar 2nd, 2003, 10:44 PM
I see that word "racist" bothers you a lot and that tells me a LOT about you. Usually people who are racist are always very defensive when call a racist. Believe me I can read from your messages and know for a fact that you are truly a racist. I bet you are going to tell me you have a black friend at work or school. Sad, sad, sad.


I love it when people know me more then I do. :rolleyes:

angele87
Mar 2nd, 2003, 10:44 PM
How exactly do people like this happen?
LOL Becca :D

Layla, wonderful post :worship:

Layla
Mar 2nd, 2003, 10:46 PM
I forgot to ask a very important question. How is someone who is not a racist supposed to react when he is accused of being one? I mean what kind of a reaction would you accept as proof that the person is not racist? What can he or she possibly say or do that wouldn't automatically make you scream: "See, I knew it! HA!" I seriously want to know.

Jennifer's wife
Mar 2nd, 2003, 10:46 PM
do u think if we called her an alien, then when she sed she wasnt an alien, we could tell her she must b as she sed she's not? :p

Jakeev
Mar 3rd, 2003, 06:44 AM
Damn Layla did you make leslie look like the incredible biased idiot she is or what? You go girl!!!!! :D

Sorry, to be so giddy been drinking wine hehehe :drool:

ico4498
Mar 3rd, 2003, 03:36 PM
" IMO, Serena and Venus (but more Serena) are arrogant! Why? Because it seems to me that I've heard them say a lot how bad they were playing after crushing an opponent" angel87

" KIM CLIJSTERS: Well, there's one big advantage, that's that I won this Match Playing bad tennis. So I'm happy with that. But I'm not happy with the level that I played today."

gentenaire
Mar 3rd, 2003, 03:40 PM
Since when is winning = crushing, ico?

gentenaire
Mar 3rd, 2003, 04:27 PM
Very true, bajangurl. I hate it when there's an applause after a double fault, the booing when Venus caught her ball toss was completely out of place. The only defense I can give is that it was a minority who booed. I wouldn't be surprised if some people booed at the people who were booing. I noticed when Kim was complaining at a line call, that both Kim and Justine fans were booing. Kim fans were booing at the umpire, Justine fans were booing at Kim. I hate booing, but it's not always what it seems.

brickhousesupporter
Mar 3rd, 2003, 04:30 PM
" IMO, Serena and Venus (but more Serena) are arrogant! Why? Because it seems to me that I've heard them say a lot how bad they were playing after crushing an opponent" angel87

" KIM CLIJSTERS: Well, there's one big advantage, that's that I won this Match Playing bad tennis. So I'm happy with that. But I'm not happy with the level that I played today."

Thanks for showing the hypocrisy of some fans. They act like it is wrong to say that you played badly. If you played badly and felt that way you should be able to say it without being seen as conceited or ignorant.

Rocketta
Mar 3rd, 2003, 04:43 PM
Thanks for showing the hypocrisy of some fans. They act like it is wrong to say that you played badly. If you played badly and felt that way you should be able to say it without being seen as conceited or ignorant.

Exactly, did you see all the talk about how bad Kim was playing (in the beginning of the thread) in this thread. Nobody was saying Ai great play was forcing Kim into errors cause we all know that if Kim is on her game Ai doesn't have a chance.

http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?threadid=58843&mode=linear&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

Also, the very last comment is that Although Kim played bad good win Ai. Which is exactly what Serena fans said about the Championships but Williams fans are arrogant and never blah blah blah but when other fans do it its fine. Hypocrisy.

gentenaire
Mar 3rd, 2003, 04:56 PM
Exactly, did you see all the talk about how bad Kim was playing (in the beginning of the thread) in this thread. Nobody was saying Ai great play was forcing Kim into errors cause we all know that if Kim is on her game Ai doesn't have a chance.

http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?threadid=58843&mode=linear&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

Also, the very last comment is that Although Kim played bad good win Ai. Which is exactly what Serena fans said about the Championships but Williams fans are arrogant and never blah blah blah but when other fans do it its fine. Hypocrisy.


You must be wearing different glasses. What I read is "Ai came out very fresh and really took the match. She leveled up her game and so did Kim at a certain moment, but AI was to good in the third. " by the person who started the thread. No one's coming up with excuses. The majority is saying Ai deserved the win. That's not what Williams fans were saying after Kim won the Masters. They kept saying that Serena was tired and that that was the reason she lost, that there's no way Kim would have won otherwise, bla bla bla.

I've always insisted that this is Kim's type of play, she's got days when she makes lots of errors because she happens to play risk tennis, she goes for the lines so sometimes they all go out, sometimes she's on a cloud and all the balls fall in the right places.

Even after Kim won the masters, the majority of Kim fans were saying that this didn't mean Kim's the better player, that it's entirely possible Kim would lose in their next encounter.

We did have a problem with the lack of credit a large group of Williams fans gave Kim. I didn't see them write "Kim deserved this win, she was too good." No, I read "Serena was tired."

harloo
Mar 3rd, 2003, 05:01 PM
Exactly, did you see all the talk about how bad Kim was playing (in the beginning of the thread) in this thread. Nobody was saying Ai great play was forcing Kim into errors cause we all know that if Kim is on her game Ai doesn't have a chance.

http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?threadid=58843&mode=linear&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

Also, the very last comment is that Although Kim played bad good win Ai. Which is exactly what Serena fans said about the Championships but Williams fans are arrogant and never blah blah blah but when other fans do it its fine. Hypocrisy.

I agree, because when Williams fans said that Serena did play badly almost everyone on this board was in an uproar and their fans are arrogant. However, now when Kim loses it's oh she played badly and that's why AI won. LOL. No big uproar or anything. Figures.

gentenaire
Mar 3rd, 2003, 05:05 PM
Do you actually read?

Crazy Canuck
Mar 3rd, 2003, 05:07 PM
So have the Kim fans-Williams fans fights permanently replaced the Hingis fans-Williams fans and Jenn fans-Williams fans fights, or is this just a temporary thing? Doesn't Lindsay get a turn?

Rocketta
Mar 3rd, 2003, 05:09 PM
i was talking about comments like this..

Blame it on playing a doubles partner. She's lost to Bacheva, Shaughnessy, I think maybe Sugiyama before, and maybe others when they have been her doubles partner in the same tourney.

she lacks agression, hits the ball to late, and doesn't look enthousiastic and motivated.

is it because she is playing ai? is it becasue she knows she can beat her anyway because ai has no energy left?

or this


I've seen Kim miss 2 or 3 smashes, 2 or 3 drive volleys. And she really is slower than normal, otherwise she runs down a lot more balls


These are few and they weren't giving Ai credit but saying how bad Kim was playing. Which I don't have a problem with. You want to have degrees of excuses. Some are ok and others aren't well who gets to decide.

Saying that Kim is prone to errors is the same as saying its all on Kim's racket and if she misses its because of her and if she makes them its because of her not because of her opponent. I don't see how that's any different than saying Clijsters won she deserved it but Serena was tired and you can see it in her play. If Serena hadn't been so tired she would've won just like if Kim hadn't made so many errors (which she is in total control of ) she would've beat Ai.

You say its different and I say its not.

For the record a lot of Williams fans said Kim deserved her win but because they also said Serena was tired everyone got up in arms. Well Serena was tired and Kim was spraying balls everywhere yesterday for whatever reason and that is why they lost. That's the truth.

gentenaire
Mar 3rd, 2003, 05:43 PM
That's not the truth.

People were commenting during the match, at a time when Kim was making a lot of errors. In the third set, Ai played very well and that's why she won and that's what people in that thread are saying!

How many people have said that Kim lost the match, not that Ai won it?

Compare it to the number of people who said Serena threw her match away, not that Kim won it.

Layla
Mar 3rd, 2003, 05:50 PM
These are few and they weren't giving Ai credit but saying how bad Kim was playing. Which I don't have a problem with. You want to have degrees of excuses. Some are ok and others aren't well who gets to decide.

Saying that Kim is prone to errors is the same as saying its all on Kim's racket and if she misses its because of her and if she makes them its because of her not because of her opponent. I don't see how that's any different than saying Clijsters won she deserved it but Serena was tired and you can see it in her play. If Serena hadn't been so tired she would've won just like if Kim hadn't made so many errors (which she is in total control of ) she would've beat Ai.

You say its different and I say its not.

For the record a lot of Williams fans said Kim deserved her win but because they also said Serena was tired everyone got up in arms. Well Serena was tired and Kim was spraying balls everywhere yesterday for whatever reason and that is why they lost. That's the truth.

Oh for crying out loud! Are you even aware that those comments were made during the first set and only reflected fans who were concerned because their fan is not performing as well as they expected and were trying to understand why. That has nothing whatsoever to do with post-match congratulations. When I watch a match, I cheer and scream at the tv and discuss the players' performance all the time. You can hardly call those examples of being a sore loser, since at that point, Kim was far from being the loser of that match.

There's nothing inherently wrong with saying someone was playing badly. But to give zero credit to the opponent who beat him/her is rather narrow-minded and yes, arrogant (not to be confused with confident in this case). It can also become offensive when the opponent is openly ridiculed or dismissed as unworthy. So it's not surprising that fans of the opponent react, is it?

There's also an important distinction between simply saying someone lost because she was playing badly, which is in no way an exuse for the loss, and claiming someone should have won if only she weren't "tired" or some other lame excuse. Hey, my biggest disappointment in tennis was Ferrero's Roland Garros loss. It broke my heart. But I never ever claimed that he should have won that match, because he is a better player and better players always beat lower-ranked players, right? Costa played a brilliant match, and Ferrero played a lousy one. It's not rocket science. Costa thoroughly deserved to win and he did. Ferrero was also injured, but that's not the only, or even the main reason he lost, Costa had something to do with it too. I was extremely bitter, but I admitted Costa was just better on that day. Why is that so difficult?

In my opinion, these are important distinctions.

p.s. I'm sorry my example comes from the ATP tour, but that is my greatest passion. :o

Jakeev
Mar 5th, 2003, 10:09 AM
Well then joy thanks for the "brilliant" response to the conversation since that type of cheering happens in most countries when the homegirl is playing......hate to see you at a Davis Cup match I could just imagine you trying to stare down 10,000 screaming Peruvians against an American player.....

Oh and Layla.........I get down on my :worship: layllllllllla :kiss:

Scorch
Mar 5th, 2003, 02:32 PM
When I was last at Wimbledon 2002 I saw the Henman - Ferreira match.

The crowd were booing Ferreira when he was getting (understandably) upset at some line calls.

The crowd also cheered his double faults and unforced errors.

There was also a very vocal group of South Africans who returned the favour to Henman.

After the match Ferreira said it was the best atmosphere he had ever played in which surprised me because some of the Henman supporters were pretty brutal at times.

Rocketta
Mar 5th, 2003, 03:48 PM
Oh for crying out loud! Are you even aware that those comments were made during the first set and only reflected fans who were concerned because their fan is not performing as well as they expected and were trying to understand why. That has nothing whatsoever to do with post-match congratulations. When I watch a match, I cheer and scream at the tv and discuss the players' performance all the time. You can hardly call those examples of being a sore loser, since at that point, Kim was far from being the loser of that match.

In my best Homer simpson voice, Dooh! No I didn't know that. Um yeah I knew that they were in the heat of the moment and were cheering for their fav. Why not give Serena fans the same break. They were upset that their fav played like her feet were stuck in mud, ie tired. So there is a differece you can say things during a match but after its over then you can't? :confused: Also, I saw posts after the match talking about Kim's errors being the cause of the loss. I happen to agree with them. I don't think that means Ai's win means anything less. However, some people feel if the person who loses doesn't praise the winner somehow the win is tarnished or at least that is how I feel people act.


There's nothing inherently wrong with saying someone was playing badly. But to give zero credit to the opponent who beat him/her is rather narrow-minded and yes, arrogant (not to be confused with confident in this case). It can also become offensive when the opponent is openly ridiculed or dismissed as unworthy. So it's not surprising that fans of the opponent react, is it?

Serena fans did give Kim credit. They say she deserved to win cause Serena didn't come to play but had Serena not been worn out and in better shape Kim wouldn't have won. That's an opinion. You might not agree with it. For the record Serena did give Kim credit it wasn't "enough" credit for Kim fans but she did say Kim played well. Also, so did most of Serena's fans however it wasn't wrapped in a pretty enough box for some. Also, Serena has stated many times she doesn't think she is going to lose or that anyone is better than her so why should her fans? Wether that's arrogance or confidence changes from person to person.


There's also an important distinction between simply saying someone lost because she was playing badly, which is in no way an exuse for the loss, and claiming someone should have won if only she weren't "tired" or some other lame excuse.

In my opinion, these are important distinctions.



I don't think so, they are both excuses or reasons why that person felt they lost. I still ask who gets to decide? Kim fans?

lmy
Mar 5th, 2003, 06:21 PM
I really get tired of the name calling. The issue of booing and the Williams' sisters is difficult to explain away. I am not prepared to say that all those that boo the sisters are racists. However, there are players that I don't support and I dont find the need to boo them when they made double faults or other errors. I may root and cheer for their opponent, but I know how to conduct myself. I sometimes believe that crowds feel they can behave differently when the sisters play. Now it becomes all right to cheer when they make errors, It also ok to boo if anything questionable occurs(injury timeout etc). May be the sisters appear to be so formidable that many feel the match is unfair. Or maybe because they are Black and often portrayed as "arrogant" the crowd does not care about good sportmanship and courtesy. Crowds seem to boo the Williams so often that now people feel it ok. Is it all racism? Maybe yes ..maybe not. It is rude and it seems to happen to the sisters all the time.
I know that white players get booed, but there is a difference. I generally have seen the crowd support one white player over another, but the crowd generally does not boo the other player without cause(Davis cup and perhaps fed cup being the exceptions )
Hingis was booed at the FO loudly, but the Crowd felt her behavior deserved it(there was a reason for the crowds reaction).

Jakeev
Mar 6th, 2003, 02:46 AM
Joy darling find say 10 different French Open matches and I am sure the majority will have some player getting booed for doing something as simple as look at the umpire crosseyed.......the French Open crowds is one of the greatest examples of people who are passioniate about tennis......

DunkMachine
Mar 6th, 2003, 06:26 AM
I believe Leslie has some good points, but I really hate the way you call people racist. Shut the fuck up leslie. You're being the friggin stereotype many other people have been accused of by sticking the racist sticker on everyone on . Whatever battle you think you are fighting won't be won by accusing other posters. "I read between the lines" is bullshit.
You can question what they've said but you cannot accuse them of thing they have not said. That just makes you look stupid. Chill out and grow up.

Racism is an extreme but I do believe however that S&Vs race is a big factor in their public appeal. Why couldn't it be segregation and other bias has ended only less than 50 years ago. These things take centuries of dissipating.

I am willing to call everyone a liar and a fool who thinks otherwise.

Someone was saying that they're a big fan of Woods. Well our friend Tiger has publicly denounced his blackness and doesn't want to be referred as one. Yea great example ;) . Though don't get me wrong, I like his 2 iron action and he IS half thai.

DunkMachine
Mar 6th, 2003, 06:33 AM
Another thing Rebecca,

You remind me of a superhero called Sarcasmo with sarcasm as a superpower. Really you too must have somekind of talent like this. You seem to have developed it quite well.

doloresc
Mar 6th, 2003, 12:05 PM
"what does someone who doesn't like the Williams sisters have to do to convince them the dislike is not based on race? "

i think the reason that certain williams fans feel that some tennis fans' assertions are based largely on race is because criticism is at levelled at venus and serena (i.e. they're conceited) that isn't at other players who happen to be white. if a fan is going to illustrate how pompous they think the williams sisters are then in the name of fairness they should be just as passionate and demonstrative in their dislike of other players' (perceived) arrogance. so if a tennis fan picks and chooses who they label some sort of negativity, then the skepticism (about that person and their views) that comes with it is warranted.