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Volcana
Feb 26th, 2003, 12:53 AM
Normally I'm leery of any arguement that says that all the WIlliams sisters do is overpower their opponents.
However, the analysis says what it says.

Suppose success on the tour just comes down to 'runs fast, hits hard'? How the rankings look? Well, the players who could really cover court, and really hit hard, would rise to the top. It's all about genetics, training being equal.
Then would come the players who hit hard, but on't run that fast.
Then some fast players who can't hit with the 'Big Babes'.
Look at the rankings for the top twelve now.


01 Runs Fast, Hit Hard
02 Runs Fast, Hit Hard
03 Runs Fast, Hit Hard
04 Runs Fast, Hit Hard
05 Hit Hard
06 Hit Hard
07 Hit Hard
08 Hit Hard
09 Hit Hard
10 Hit Hard
11 Runs Fast
12 Runs Fast

Okay so I rigged that.
But you gotta admit, the top four
have the best combination of
'run fast and hit hard'.

01 Serena Williams 7273.00
02 Venus Williams 4994.00
03 Kim Clijsters 3958.00
04 Justine Henin-Hardenne 3605.00

And the next six players are big
time bangers, but not among the
very fastest. (I'm not going to
point out who's dragging down
the group average speed.)

05 Jennifer Capriati 2902.00
06 Daniela Hantuchova 2897.00
07 Lindsay Davenport 2534.00
08 Amelie Mauresmo 2509.00
09 Jelena Dokic 2353.00
10 Monica Seles 2281.00

Then we go small.

11 Anastasia Myskina 2245.00
12 Chanda Rubin 2127.00


Now our current top four are highly skilled players, but maybe just maybe, they occupy their spots in the rankings due to choosing their parents and their birthdays wisely.
Are they really so much more skilled than players #5-#10.

Seems to me when push comes to shove, Speed and Power Rule

And if you haven't got both, you don't rule.

Jennifer's wife
Feb 26th, 2003, 01:03 AM
well, Jen can run fast wen she's playin well. she has a great on the run forehand:bounce:

sartrista7
Feb 26th, 2003, 01:05 AM
In general it's pretty spot on, in a simplistic sort of way (but then again, sometimes the simple answers are the right ones), except that Jenn can be pretty speedy and Chanda is definitely more of a 'hits hard' than 'runs fast' player... she can pound the ball incredibly powerfully for someone of her size.

Volcana
Feb 26th, 2003, 03:38 AM
It is definitely an oversimplfication. But what seperates the top four from the next eight may not be so much shotmaking, or intelligence or 'talent'. Maybe it's just 'ran fast, hit hard'.

Robbie.
Feb 26th, 2003, 03:46 AM
Volcana, I really don't think that Jenn belongs in the group with the likes of Lindsay, Jelena and Monica.

Jenn's speed has much more in common with the top 4 then with those who reside below her. In fact retieving is one of the crucial elements of her game.

SerenaSlam
Feb 26th, 2003, 03:50 AM
i agree w/ the groupings you have come up with, it does seem to be like that in the top 10, but venus and serena should, (not saying b/c the gap is like it is), but they should be there own group, and if i had a choice, venus would be ahead of serena, only b/c venus' reach along w/ her great speed, makes her the "fastets" (meaning getting to the balls) on the tour. Serena clearly sprint wise is the fastest on the tour, but running back and forth, changing direction and all, venus number 1. also i think clijsters should have her own grouping away from henin, she is behind the sisters, but to me is a lil gap ahead of justine in the "fast" aspect of it all. jennifer if at all, should first be ranked w/ justine before she is ranked w/ hantuchova, seles, davenport etc... she has proven she is fits in w/ henin.

fammmmedspin
Feb 26th, 2003, 04:04 AM
Add "believe in your ability to win" and "don't miss" to the matrix and you can pretty well calculate the top 12 players rankings? Though "do something different", "schedule yourself more intelligently than Jelena"and "confuse the hell out of the other guy" come into play too determining who beats whom.

PhoenixStorm
Feb 26th, 2003, 02:41 PM
this works if you ignore that tennis is majority mental. If you dont have the will or mind to win you won't no matter how fast you run or hard you hit. Witness serena in 2001 losses, mentally she was all over the place.

DunkMachine
Feb 26th, 2003, 03:24 PM
Actually Chanda outhits most of the top 6/10. Her forehand is killer.

Weevee
Feb 26th, 2003, 03:40 PM
Mental tennis is over rated.

DunkMachine
Feb 26th, 2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Weevee
Mental tennis is over rated.

Indeed

DEETHELICK
Feb 26th, 2003, 03:44 PM
Jen should be above. Its so weird seeing her underneath Justine and Kim, as I personally feel she moves much better than them. And her power is definitely more than either of those two.

As for the others, I pretty much agree, altho if Myskina had a bit more weight of shot, she'd be a top 5 player for sure!

And if run fast, hit hard was the only way to be top of the heap...we'd have Elena Dementieva as number 1 ;)

Leena
Feb 26th, 2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by PhoenixStorm
this works if you ignore that tennis is majority mental. If you dont have the will or mind to win you won't no matter how fast you run or hard you hit. Witness serena in 2001 losses, mentally she was all over the place.

I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. The most important part of the mental side of tennis, is having confidence. You get confidence from how well you play.

Having a mild temper means nothing... I'm an extremely moody, raucous bitch when I play... but I play better when I'm pissed. I know others play better when aggravated, under pressure also.

Your Serena argument isn't very good considering she reached the QF's of every tournament she played in, and won Toronto and WTA Champ in 2001 (not counting the IW farce).

mboyle
Feb 26th, 2003, 06:01 PM
Jennifer is faster than Justine. She is as fast as Kim, Serena, and Venus. Please change it.

Volcana
Feb 26th, 2003, 07:13 PM
PhoenixStorm - The point of the thread is maybe it's not. What seperates the higher ranking members of the top ten from the power ranking members seems to be physical. And remember, we're talking about the creme de la creme. Is Venus really so mentally superior to Monica? Is Justine REALLY mentall superior to Justine?

Or are most of the top ten mentally superior players anyway, so what remains to seperate them is physical?

DEETHELICK, mboyle - When jenn's in shape, maybe that's true. Hasn't been true for a while. IMHO. However, it makes no difference. At best, you're arguing that the FIVE best players are faster than the next five, instead of four being faster then six. What seperates the top players is still footspeed.

vutt
Feb 26th, 2003, 07:59 PM
Yeah - Jen should be in "runs fast" group.
Her recent results has nothing to do with her speed on court.

And yeah Jelena - not that agile. I hope her new coach will change it...