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BCP
Feb 25th, 2003, 05:04 PM
Well, she has retired.;)

Seriously though, she was never a favourite of mine when she was playing, because she was such a smarty pants. But I thought that her style of play was pretty incredible. She had all the shots, and could play from the baseline and the net. In fact, I think she had the most incredible net skills since Zvereva.

Despite some of the unkind comments from Williams fans in GM, I in no way think that she was a transition number 1 between Steffi and the Williams. She was pretty dominant between 97-99, and even though she went slamless in 2000, I think she was pretty feared up to the end middle of 2001.

I feel that her demise was mainly due to her smugness in relation to her dominance over the rest of the tour. She had it all at a very young age. This meant that there was not the motivation to continually improve her game...to beef up that serve, to put more into that forehand. I also think that a lot of her decision to retire is that she has been used to being the best all her life, and can't settle for not being the best. She may also be enjoying life without tennis.

Whatever the reason maybe the decision is the best she's ever made. Maybe after a period, she'll miss the game so much that she'll want to come back on her own terms. Chris Evert did it in 1980.

I didn't want to post this thread in GM becuase it couldn't bear it degenerating between Hingis and Williams fans.

At 22, it would be such a shame if the fat lady has sung. Even so, she has accomplished so much in such a short time, not only in singles but also doubles.

Her titantic battles with Venus could have turned out to be a rivalry to match Evert- Navratliova, Graf-Seles.

I wanted to post this thread as someone who was not a fan, but someone who warmed to Martina later in her career, and appreciated how beautifully she played the game, and admired her achievements.

I hope on the list of the greatest ever, she won't forever, be marked with an * like Connelly, Austin, and Seles.

What are your thoughts on Hingis?

Mark43
Feb 25th, 2003, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by BCP

I wanted to post this thread as someone who was not a fan, but someone who warmed to Martina later in her career, and appreciated how beautifully she played the game, and admired her achievements.


I feel the same. I miss her quite a bit, but never really rooted for her until this past summer when she came back. She was really the 90's Chris Evert for me. I hated Chris during the 70's as she dominated, but I loved watching her play because I always had a villian to root against. When Martina N began dominating in 1983, Chris became my sentimental favorite and I realized how much I loved her graceful game and style. I went through this with Steffi in 1998.

I had never rooted for Hingis until her comeback after Wimbledon 2002. Suddenly I realized how much I missed her and how lovely her game really was...what drama/contrast/spice she added to the somewhat monotonous mix. Her anticipation was pure genious. At the US Open I was hoping she would pull a Chrissie and surprise everyone the way Evert did it in 1980.

I hope most of her problem is mental and she is able to physically comeback. Tennis needs her right now. I really want her back! I hope we can move this thread to GM after a while cause she won't qualify for the BFTP forum!!!

Ryan
Feb 26th, 2003, 12:22 AM
I was really hoping this thread would never have to be posted, but oh well. :o:sad:



It's nice to see people who appreciate Hingis' gmae and not neccesarily her personality having nice things to say about her. :wavey: I'll be posting here now more often.:p

Gandalf
Feb 26th, 2003, 06:42 AM
Like others, I didn't realy like her in '97 and '98, because i found her too arrogant, but her game was a joy to watch. She made it look so easy that you thought you could pick up tennis and become a world class player in a year...(her opponents looked dumb, BTW). She seemed to know which shot her opponent was going to hit before she even thought about it...

I really hope she comes back, because not only she's a great player but she's also an inspiration for medium-sized players who cannot rely on power but on out-thinking the rivals.

BCP
Feb 26th, 2003, 06:48 AM
The main reason why I wish she would come back is contained in Mark's and Gandalf's posts. There is such little variety between the games of the top players......... Serena, Venus, Lindsay, JCap, Cljisters etc are all very similar type players.

After rewatching matches from the past, when players of contrasting styles are pitted against each other, I realised how much I missed the presence of true all court and serve and volly players at the highest level.

This is what Martina Hingis offered. Her matches against the power hitters, especially her battles against Vensu were sometimes breath-taking.

Let's pray that somehwere in the world there is an exceptional 14 year old girl who is a serve and vollyer who looks like a future top 5 player............

irma
Feb 26th, 2003, 07:30 AM
but martina was not a serve and volleyer;)

I don't think she retired officially though, she might be back again before the french open.

BCP
Feb 26th, 2003, 08:58 AM
It's quite confusing, granted. There was an article in this month's UK tennis magazine where she is quoted as saying that she has no desire to come back, and that as far as she is concerned, she has retired. But then you get other reports that she is only taking a break....confusing!

Daniel
Feb 26th, 2003, 12:35 PM
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Rollo
Feb 26th, 2003, 09:19 PM
Well Martina could very well rewrite tennis history IMO if she came back determined and healthy. I thought it was an interesting quote I read somewhere that she was noticably slower the last couple of years due to her feet.

LOL@Irma. No, Marti was never a serve and volleyer, that's true, but it's such a sad comment on the lack of variety in today's play that we can say she had a unique playing style.

It will always be my firm belief that Hingis was never the same after losing to Graf in the 1999 French Open. All credit to Steffi for winning what was a glorious bitch match (they couldn't stand each other-which made it fun:)-but after the shock Hingis never recovered. The Graf match got into her head and later close defeats to Venus at the 2000 US Open and Capriati in those two Aussie finals jusr got progressively worse. Hey, I'm a Capriati fan, but the Hingis of 1998-9 would have won the 2002 Aussie final in straight sets.

History will probably say the power hitters drove her off the court later on, but with an effort I think she could have (and still could) win slams. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Until then I miss the "Swiss Miss". Here's hoping she comes done from her Alps retreat and gives us a little sunshine and a lot of bitchy "chucky" attitude!

Daniel
Feb 27th, 2003, 03:02 AM
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

roscoe111
Feb 27th, 2003, 04:53 AM
The overused terms 'child prodigy' and 'athletic genius' are accurate for once in reviewing the career of Martina Hingis.
To my mind she is/was the most complete player to have yet played this sport.

At her best, she had an ability to toy with the finest players of her era. In addition to her control of every shot imaginable she seemed to have a sixth sense of timing and shot selection.

I recognise that some found her to be a grating pesonality but remember that she has had to grow up in public. I found her honesty to be a refreshing change.

Hopefully she will be able to return to the pro circuit after a full physical recuperation and a well earned time away from the scrutiny that accompanies being at the top of your profession.

Nevertheless, even if her career is prematurely over I think her precocious accomplishments have earned her a place alongside the finest players in history.

BCP
Feb 27th, 2003, 06:45 AM
Rollo, and Roscoe, I agree completely with your posts. I know Hingis fans would never admit how much that loss to graf hurt Hingis. I also think that she was never the same.

BTW, I never meant that Hingis was a serve volleyer. I was meaning that I hope that 1 or more serve volleyers come onto the scene to break up the monotony at the moment.........

P.S Daniel, those smileys are really annoying. If you're such a big Martina fan, why don't you share some of your memories/thoughts...........

irma
Feb 27th, 2003, 08:21 AM
I am not sure she was never the same. I saw parts of her match against venus in san diego 99 and she played great very aggressive

at the us open that year she was just overpowered (as she was in key biscane too)

I think the real match that hurt her career was australia 2001 against Cappy. a player she had never lost before, she had just beaten Serena and Venus in a row and then she was totally outplayed

after that match things went really bad and she looked unmotivated too. at the french open semi that year I wanted to step in my tv and slap her because she didn't even try!

Daniel
Mar 1st, 2003, 10:04 PM
Martina is the best!!!!!!

:D :D

Viva Martina :D :kiss:

Daniel
Mar 2nd, 2003, 12:53 PM
Martina Hingis is the best!!!!!!!!!!


:D :D :D

Kart
Mar 2nd, 2003, 02:40 PM
You know, I haven't been on the board for a while and I didn't even realise she had retired :rolleyes: :sad:.

I may be one of the few in this, but I don't think she's coming back - I think she doesn't believe in herself anymore.

When Steffi beat Martina in Paris I was thrilled, but I'd almost rather she'd lost if it had meant that things would turn out differently to the way they did. For me, who was (believe it or not) a big Steffi fan, I find that hard to admit.

Losing to Graf was bad, but what I think really killed her was the series of shock losses in grand slams after - Serena in US open, thrashing by Lindsay in Oz (she was wiping away the tears in that second sets and I almost was too !), Mary in Paris and Venus twice - before 2001. I know these were all top players, but Martina was beating them all only a few months before.

By the time we got to January 2001 there was all that arguing between Williams family and Martina and I think she was desperate to prove she was better. Perhaps because it had all come so easily a few years before, she was in denial that the tour had caught up with her.

That loss to JenCap in Oz was a shock but she was frankly outplayed. What was more of a shock was the loss in Charleston. By the time they got to Paris, JenCap was mentally in the ascendency and Martina just faded.

By this time there was all this talk about her unable to cope with power hitters - not wholly untrue but she wasn't struggling with everyone. Of course, US open 2001 was a complete hammering though. I think that Oz last year was just the last straw.

There is just so much to talk about with Hingis - but if I were to sum up what I thought contributed to a premature (and it really was premature) retirement, I would say it was, in no particular order :

- feud with media about inability to cope with power players undermining her self belief

- desperation to prove she could cope, by playing too many tournaments in an attempt to hold no.1 ranking, leading to a serious injury

- some painful losses in big grand slam matches but not just one, several

- in the end a complete loss of confidence in game. There is only so much one person can take. That's why I don't think Martina will ever come back - all this talk about ankle injury is just providing her with a convenient excuse.

I would be happy to be wrong about this though - Martina has sort of gained that veteran feel about her now and I find it a lot easier to cheer for her now than I ever did before.


I should add though that I don't think there is any particular need for Martina to come back - obviously the game would benefit immensely from her variety but she really has nothing to prove. If she wants to come back it should be because she enjoys it, nothing more.

Colin B
Mar 3rd, 2003, 01:23 AM
I think the real match that hurt her career was australia 2001 against Cappy. a player she had never lost before, she had just beaten Serena and Venus in a row and then she was totally outplayed

I totally agree. At Roland Garros she faced a legend (albeit one recently returned from injury), in a tournament she had never won, a crowd that favoured her opponent and what she saw as a bad line call that came at a decisive moment. The loss clearly hurt her a lot, resulting in those infamous histrionics (which, incidentally, I forgave her for - she was little more than an adolescent, so why shouldn't she behave like one for once!)

At The Australian open, however, having finally beaten both Williams sisters in the same Slam, she was faced with what must have looked 'on paper', like an easy final. She probably had the winner's speech written and the Champaign on ice before she walked out on court! I think that loss broke her spirits more than the loss to Graf.

hingis-seles
Mar 3rd, 2003, 07:17 AM
I'm a huge Hingis fan, infact I started following tennis, when I saw her playing in the 4th round of Wimbledon 1996 against Steffi Graf. I was only 12, but I couldn't take my eyes off Martina. I thought she was so0 cute and I was instantly in love.:hearts:

I followed all her matches since that day.

In my opinion, the Roland Garros match in 1999 against Steffi changed her for good. She never completely recovered from that match. Martina said in an interview that the loss itself didn't hurt her much, but the crowd booing her was her worst tennis memory and something she has never forgotten. That crowd was horrible to her. What they did was unforgivable.

I attribute the JenCap loss in the 2001 Australian Open final to her being too tired. Martina played and won the Hopman Cup for Switzerland(singles and doubles matches). She won all her singles matches. Then she entered Sydney and beat Clijsters, Serena, Conchita and Lindsay to win the title(Only Lindsay took a set off her, Martina winning 6-3,4-6,7-5). She also played doubles with Monica Seles in Sydney. They beat Williams/Williams 6-4,3-6,7-6, saving 6 matchpoints, they also beat Davenport/Morariu before Hingis skipped the semifinal match. Then at the Australian Open, Martina beat Serena and Venus to reach the singles final and also reached the doubles semifinals with Seles, beating Raymond/Stubbs, Dokic/Capriati, Shaughnessy/Pratt among others before losing 7-5, 6-2 to Williams/Williams.

That's a lot of tennis for 3-4 weeks.

IMO, Hingis shouldn't have lost the RG'99 final, the US Open semis 2000, US Open final 1999, Australian Open 2001 and 2002. Those losses, she could/would have pulled out.

BCP
Mar 3rd, 2003, 09:04 AM
Great post Kart!

Daniel
Mar 3rd, 2003, 06:07 PM
Viva MArtina!!!!!!

:D

hingis-seles
Mar 16th, 2003, 06:29 PM
*bump*

bandabou
Apr 4th, 2003, 12:54 PM
I think her last two matches against Serena caused her to retire. First the '01 U.S. open semi's. In that match she was just a spectator. Nothing she could do......simply blown away. Then came Miami......more of the same. She knew that Serena was starting to reach a level that she couldn't reach anymore herself, so she started to lose confidence. And Martina Hingis without confidence isn't nearly the player she is, when she has all the confidence in the world!

King Lindsay
Apr 26th, 2003, 12:54 PM
Hingis hasn't officially announced her retirement because then her sponsors would no longer be obligated to play her, which they are now because she is "injured". So goes the theory, anyway.

I have to side with those that say RG 1999 was the turning point in her career. If she had won that match, she would've taken the first two Slams of the year, and put the past to rest (her uneven H2H with Steffi, most of it compiled pre-1997). But we all know what wound up happening there. from that point on, I defy anybody to prove through her results that she was really the world's best player. From then on, she was always playing second fiddle to somebody.

Of course, her last two Australian Opens were devastating, but they were more the last nails in the coffin. After AO 2002, I'm not sure her psyche could take anymore.

Also, I feel that Martina and I share a similar trait. either things come easy to us, or they do not come at all. we get very frustrated when things are not naturally easy, but at the same time, we cannot accept anything less than being the best. I think at the end, Martina's grasp at on the top was slipping and when she suffered a major injury and couldn't return at the same level, that was enough. She doesn't play tennis to be #10.

I hope she will return to the game one day but I am a little skeptical these days for the reason I mention in the last paragraph. She could never be Jennifer Capriati, whose dogged determination and iron will allowed her to absorb being the #101 ranked player in the world in 1998 while still maintaining enough self belief to right the ship in later years. So I don't know if she'd ever want to return, knowing that she'd have to work her way all the way back, and maybe not believing herself that it's possible. If she can't be the best, she won't do it.

moby
May 6th, 2003, 02:44 PM
I often feel like this myself. So you can add my name to yours and Marti's, King Lindsay.

"If she can't be the best, she won't do it."

That is true and it is a mentality that I've suffer from and am trying to get rid of. You really have to get over it and think "If you wont't do it, you cant be the best. If you try, at least you've got a shot at it"

gorecki
May 6th, 2003, 02:54 PM
I hope she will return to the game one day but I am a little skeptical these days for the reason I mention in the last paragraph. She could never be Jennifer Capriati, whose dogged determination and iron will allowed her to absorb being the #101 ranked player in the world in 1998 while still maintaining enough self belief to right the ship in later years. So I don't know if she'd ever want to return, knowing that she'd have to work her way all the way back, and maybe not believing herself that it's possible. If she can't be the best, she won't do it.

i'm still hoping she proves us wrong and pull a 'Capriati' in the near future... :)

louloubelle
May 7th, 2003, 10:56 AM
[QUOTE='King Lindsay']

Also, I feel that Martina and I share a similar trait. either things come easy to us, or they do not come at all. we get very frustrated when things are not naturally easy, but at the same time, we cannot accept anything less than being the best. I think at the end, Martina's grasp at on the top was slipping and when she suffered a major injury and couldn't return at the same level, that was enough. She doesn't play tennis to be #10.

QUOTE]

Totally agree. Im sure mother Melanie (and everyone else) told Martina how good she was and how good she was going to be during her formative years. She knew nothing else but 'herself'. Therefore as soon as that wasn't the case with injuries, hard work to be done and stiffer competition .. she couldn't handle it anymore.

BCP
Nov 22nd, 2004, 03:19 PM
There have been some rumours circulating in GM that Martina Hingis is training hard, and there could be a comeback on the cards. I'm not sure how I would feel about a comeback. Though I was never a big Hingis fan, I did love the way she played the game, and would welcome the variety she would bring back to the sport.

On the other hand, I think I would be disheartened if her comeback was stalled, and she was relegated to the middle to lower echelons of the game, and was regularly beaten by palyers who I felt weren't in her league. I'm not even sure if i would be happy with a Seles-like comeback, where she would be a perennial QF. So all in all, an interesting proposition, but I'm not sure how I feel about it.

One step at a time I guess. Let's see how she goes against Gaby...........

alfajeffster
Nov 22nd, 2004, 04:15 PM
It would be so wonderful if she really could make a comeback, although with all the power from so many players in the last few years, It'll be very tough for her.

HanaFanGA
Nov 22nd, 2004, 04:51 PM
I'm not a big fan of Hingis. But she is a prime example of the power game (i.e. racquet technology) making superior tennis skill irrelevent. So in light of that, welcome back M.H. and good luck.

Kart
Nov 22nd, 2004, 05:29 PM
Gosh I used to write long posts :speakles:.

I can't even be bothered to read what I wrote :tape:.

Anyway, re: Martina - she still has her injury does she not ?

Ryan
Nov 30th, 2004, 11:18 PM
Hopefully the recent news might mean that this thread can be deleted in afew months. :angel:

Santorofan
Dec 1st, 2004, 05:50 AM
Good news for Hingis fans: According to this week's Sports Illustrated, Hingis is scheduled to play an exhibition in Febuary against none other than Gabriela Sabatini :)

vicky116
Dec 1st, 2004, 09:52 AM
MH4ever!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Ryan
Dec 1st, 2004, 10:29 AM
Good news for Hingis fans: According to this week's Sports Illustrated, Hingis is scheduled to play an exhibition in Febuary against none other than Gabriela Sabatini :)

Plus, she's participating in the Tier III Pattaya Event in January. :D

Mark43
Dec 1st, 2004, 03:59 PM
I just read the news! Hurray! Is this the beginning of a comeback? I certainly hope so. I am sure MH was salivating watching the last 6 slams.

I have to say, for the first time really, i will be rooting for her.

BCP
Dec 1st, 2004, 04:02 PM
Hey Mark, where have you been?!:wavey:

vicky116
Dec 2nd, 2004, 06:12 AM
this isnt a comeback. its for charity. so it is only one off.

but... something is better than nothing!!!

Mark43
Dec 3rd, 2004, 03:18 AM
Hey BCP! I have been working full time...but I just quit!
Yay!

I really do hope this leads to something for Hingis. She is still so young.

BCP
Dec 3rd, 2004, 08:34 AM
Mark, Yay for you!!!!!!!! :lol:

Who woulda guessed that we would be rooting for Hingis!

Mark43
Dec 3rd, 2004, 01:54 PM
I know, I know. But I relaly miss her. This always happens to me with the people I cheered against...Chris, Steffi, McEnroe, Connors and now Hingis.

Mark43
Dec 3rd, 2004, 01:54 PM
I know, I know. But I really miss her. This always happens to me with the people I cheered against...Chris, Steffi, McEnroe, Connors and now Hingis.

jamesuk
Dec 3rd, 2004, 04:16 PM
I felt it was terrible people accusing her of retiring becuase she could no longer hold her own against the power players.
Of course, it became apparent that when Venus, Lindsay and Serena were at their best, they were v v v hard to beat for Martina.
That kind of sustained power play cant go on forever though and there was bound to be a let up form those players. I believe that if they were playing at anything LESS than their best, MArtina had the edge all the time.
The irony is that this past year with the way the Williams have been playing, if Martina had been playing she would have had as good a chance as she ever had to beat them. They are sure.y still the most powerful players, so I dont think the game has "moved on" so much.
Wouldnt it be awful if she does well at this mini return, decides to return for good, only for Justibe, Serena Venus etc all to come back to top form!!!

Santorofan
Dec 18th, 2004, 10:07 PM
Hingis fans: on Dec 21st the Tennis Channel will be debuting Martina II: Hingis Documentary...from the description it sounds like it may be worth getting ahold of even if you don't subscribe to the channel.

Ryan
Dec 21st, 2005, 06:32 PM
BUMP! :wavey:


I guess many people's speculations in this thread were right, hopefully Martina has the will to go out there and compete 100% again, and I HOPE she works on her serve.

On a sidenote, does anyone want to discuss the impact WTT had on Hingis' comeback? She didn't play anyone really good, not many people in the Top 75 either. However, I think the feeling of domination and teamwork really gave her confidence. I think her backhand, volleys and anticipation are amazing considering the long lay-off. Her footwork/speed was a little off, but will improve after 1 or 2 tourney's and the rust is off. Ditto with the silly errors she made during WTT, in competitive play IMO those will fade abit. Her serve and forehand are still liabilities, the serve moreso. Sometimes she'll crank it up to 100, but most times it's in the low 90's and 80's. That's essential for her to comeback successfully. I would love if Joey Guliano would coach her, he was always so intense and positive. THAT imo is the key for Marti to succeed in this comeback, her mother was a stern, negative figure while Joey could be a real motivator.

Mark43
Dec 21st, 2005, 06:46 PM
Has there been any word as to whether Melanie will be coaching her again?

Just a few more days and this thread can be moved from BFTP to a current player forum. Yay!

Ryan
Dec 21st, 2005, 06:54 PM
Has there been any word as to whether Melanie will be coaching her again?

Just a few more days and this thread can be moved from BFTP to a current player forum. Yay!


I read a recent article where that subject was mentioned, I believe Ms. Molitor will be coaching her. I would at least like her to hit with a guy though. :tape:

hingis-seles
Dec 22nd, 2005, 03:27 PM
I read in an article that Melanie will be coaching.