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View Full Version : Justine Henin: Fourth Best, or Best of the Rest?


Volcana
Feb 22nd, 2003, 10:59 PM
Is Justine Henin the fourth best tennis
player on the tour? Or is she occupying
the #4 spot because of the vagaries of
the ranking system?
If you look at the rankings,
the numbers tell a story.

There's a top four

7273 WILLIAMS, SERENA
5096 WILLIAMS, VENUS
3958 CLIJSTERS, KIM
3283 HENIN-HARDENNE, JUSTINE

Then a 400 point gap.

Then eight player withion 700 points of each other.

2897 HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA
2790 CAPRIATI, JENNIFER
2698 MAURESMO, AMELIE
2534 DAVENPORT, LINDSAY
2353 DOKIC, JELENA
2241 MYSKINA, ANASTASIA
2202 SELES, MONICA
2127 RUBIN, CHANDA

Then a 400 point gap.

Then everybody else

1711 SCHNYDER, PATTY
1627 MALEEVA, MAGDALENA
1536 PISTOLESI, ANNA
1499 DANIILIDOU, ELENI
1493 BOVINA, ELENA
1455 DEMENTIEVA, ELENA
1400 DECHY, NATHALIE
1322 FARINA ELIA, SILVIA

Simple numbers say Justine is fourth best.

But numbers are never the whole story.
And on any given day, any player in that middle group
can beat any other player in that middle group.
Is Justine clearly better than that group?
Or just one of the better members OF that group?
Her rate of success against the current top three
has not been great of late. But if you drop Venus,
Serena and Kim from consideration, and look at just wins
over top players and losses, patterns emege.
its kind of interesting.

Clay court season last year, Justine was one of the better
member of the group, but she still lost to other players
in the #4-#12 range.

08 Apr 2002 Amelia Island SF W Jelena DOKIC
30 Apr 2002 Hamburg QF L Jelena DOKIC
06 May 2002 Berlin SF W Jennifer CAPRIATI

THen came the disaster at Roland Garros

27 May 2002 Roland Garros 128 L Aniko KAPROS

This loss seemed to send Justine into a tailspin.
Her results were below par (for top ten player) til after
the US Open.

17 Jun 2002 's-Hertogenbosch SF L Eleni DANIILIDOU
24 Jun 2002 Wimbledon QF W Monica SELES
22 Jul 2002 Stanford 32 L Marissa IRVIN
12 Aug 2002 Canadian Open QF L Jennifer CAPRIATI
19 Aug 2002 New Haven 16 L Anastasia MYSKINA
26 Aug 2002 U.S. Open 16 L Daniela HANTUCHOVA
23 Sep 2002 Leipzig QF W Daniela HANTUCHOVA
07 Oct 2002 Stuttgart 16 L Myriam CASANOVA
14 Oct 2002 Zurich SF L Lindsay DAVENPORT

THen, right at the ned of last year, she got it all together.
SHe hasn't lost to any of the current top 12 since.

21 Oct 2002 Linz SF W Chanda RUBIN
13 Jan 2003 Australian Open 16 W Lindsay DAVENPORT
17 Feb 2003 Dubai QF W Anastasia MYSKINA
17 Feb 2003 Dubai SF W Jennifer CAPRIATI
17 Feb 2003 Dubai FR W Monica Seles

She's beaten everyone ranked below #4 that she's faced
since Linz. Pretty respectable. Considering Amelie
and Jenn haven't been much available to be played, and
Jelena took Australia off.

For her to be considered above that group., she'd pretty
much have to beat them every time. Well since Linz,
she's done that. But ....

Last year she stunk out the joint at Indian Wells and Miami.
A similiar performance this year, and who knows what might
happen in the rankings? Certainly Lindsay is closing fast.
But they played at OZ, not so long ago. Justine won.
Give the girl her due.

She's not just one of the pack. She's a clear level above.

Fingon
Feb 22nd, 2003, 11:02 PM
Well, now the gap between Justine and Jennifer is over 700 points.

Justine has made semis or better since Zurich last year (quarters in LA but it's a different format with only four rounds).

She hasn't lost to a player not named Williams or Clijsters since Zurich.

She is clearly behind the top 3 atm but I think she is ahead of the rest.

Gowza
Feb 22nd, 2003, 11:19 PM
since that justine-lindsay match at the oz open lindsay has won a title and we don't know what she's going to do. will she continue to have mentaly problems or has the title win helped her get over these problems or have they just started her on her way in which case she will take a bit more time to catch justine and will have a few more obstacles to overcome.

Cybelle Darkholme
Feb 23rd, 2003, 12:18 AM
Um justine deserves her spot but considering that jenn does not even have a tournament win under her belt her ranking should give juju some concern. A win here and there and jen will be in contention for the fourth and third spot. Lindsay is still making up on lost time so I think she will be top five soon. So the question is are justine and kim better than jen and lindsay? Time will tell shortly.

Yes and I know justine just beat jen and lindsay recently but come on thats her first time ever beating jen and lindsay!

Rtael
Feb 23rd, 2003, 12:20 AM
In defense of Justine she WAS sick at RG last year...it's a big chance for her to gain on #3 at RG this year =P

auntie janie
Feb 23rd, 2003, 12:26 AM
Justine is not playing at Indian Wells this year. Maybe something about it just doesn't suit her?

fammmmedspin
Feb 23rd, 2003, 12:32 AM
The rankings it is true tell one story and reflect a mixed 12 months. The other question is to look at current ability in so far as you can and J H2 is pretty clearly playing to her ranking. She seems to have sorted out her serve ( look what happened when she had multiple match points on Capriati and served) and she is getting very tough in tight finishes.

Its true she has a problem with the top 3 (she is best of the rest in that sense) but the the number 3 has a problem with the top 2 and the number 2 is pretty hopeless against the number one too so I can't really see it as an important problem.

Rtael
Feb 23rd, 2003, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by cybelledarkholmexx
Um justine deserves her spot but considering that jenn does not even have a tournament win under her belt her ranking should give juju some concern. A win here and there and jen will be in contention for the fourth and third spot. Lindsay is still making up on lost time so I think she will be top five soon. So the question is are justine and kim better than jen and lindsay? Time will tell shortly.

Yes and I know justine just beat jen and lindsay recently but come on thats her first time ever beating jen and lindsay!


That was NOT her first win againt cappy, their head to head is 3-2 I believe =P

Kart
Feb 23rd, 2003, 12:47 AM
For me, Justine's wins over Lindsay, JenCap and Monica this year speak volumes. These are three players against whom she has a losing record and this year has beaten both of them. Not thrashed them by any means, but in tight matches which arguably says more about how she's progressed mentally.

I think she deserves her no.4 spot, and judging by the way she played today I think she can challenge for no.3. If she could only get over her problems playing Kim.

~|Naomi|~
Feb 23rd, 2003, 12:53 AM
it's a big chance for her to gain on #3 at RG this year

Justine is now only 350 odd behind Kim after winning in Dubai, but Kim is playing Scottsdale and IW which Henin isn't and you are right that Henin can gain points at RG but so can Kim as she only has 88 to defend there and at Wimbledon Henin has a semifinal to defend while Kim has absolutely nothing for the entire grass season!

King Lindsay
Feb 23rd, 2003, 12:56 AM
I was thinking before the final that if she could win, it would really put the stamp on her #4 ranking. And I think it does. remember, she does not have a good record against Seles. She got her first win over Monica last year at Wimbledon, on grass. Now they play on outdoor hard, a surface that would favor Monica more, and Justine saves a matchpoint and somehow survives an incredibly tough contest. for a player who has been knocked so often for being mentally weak, this is very big indeed.

Yeah, she has problems with clijsters and the Williams. who doesn't?

She's looking good so far, we'll see how she deals with the pressure of defending her big clay points.

disposablehero
Feb 23rd, 2003, 12:57 AM
Justine had a monster clay season. Kim had no appreciable clay season. The top 4 are likely going to be in the exact same order after Roland Garros. Unless Kim has a huge couple of months and Venus really skids.

Fingon
Feb 23rd, 2003, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by disposablehero
Justine had a monster clay season. Kim had no appreciable clay season. The top 4 are likely going to be in the exact same order after Roland Garros. Unless Kim has a huge couple of months and Venus really skids.

Actually I don't agree, I do think Kim will be ahead of Justine, Justine can still win big point at RG, and FCC, but Kim has nearly nothing to defend until after FO except Hamburg.

But I do think Kim can get over Venus. Kim is now about 900 points behind, but Venus is not defending Amelia Island, that would make a gap of around 600 points.

I think Kim has a fair chance of winning Indian Wells, about 400 points, plus what she can get in Scottsdale and Miami. Then it's Warsaw but I think Venus is not going to play there. So, if Kim keeps playing like she has been until now she has a shot at the # 2 before RG, and even more after.

disposablehero
Feb 23rd, 2003, 01:22 AM
As I said, Kim over Venus is the more likely scenario. And it gets even better at Wimbledon. I am trying to do a points analysis, but that website that breaks down each players results is famously slow loading. To save me some time, how many points did Justine get this week?

gladysharon
Feb 23rd, 2003, 01:45 AM
Well, Justine has certainly improved this year...hope that it keeps that way. She really is trying her best to do well in matches.

Even if she does not catch up with Kim, I'm positive she's more contented with her no.4 spot & wishes to try to keep that as much as she can! Of course if she can catch up with Kim, she will indeed want to challenge that when the points gets closer.

To me she's the fourth best, & the best of the rest! :bounce: :D :worship:

~|Naomi|~
Feb 23rd, 2003, 01:52 AM
o save me some time, how many points did Justine get this week?

I think 320 cause 3605- 3283 = 322 but minus RG (2 points) fall out of top 17 so 320

Fingon
Feb 23rd, 2003, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by disposablehero
As I said, Kim over Venus is the more likely scenario. And it gets even better at Wimbledon. I am trying to do a points analysis, but that website that breaks down each players results is famously slow loading. To save me some time, how many points did Justine get this week?

She gets 324 minus 2 for 18th tournament = 322, total 3,605

~|Naomi|~
Feb 23rd, 2003, 02:02 AM
I was close:p

gladysharon
Feb 23rd, 2003, 02:07 AM
why minus 2? :confused:

disposablehero
Feb 23rd, 2003, 02:34 AM
Ok, this is what I have through Wimbledon then. Subtracting only tournaments in the top 17, and not replacing them with 18th or lower.

Serena still has 3476 from 7 events
Kim still has 3208 from 13 events
Venus still has 3136 from 9 events
Justine still has 1977 from 10 events

While the Williams may have fewer events than Kim, they more than likely will not make up the difference by playing more, so it is a pretty close 3 way race right now.

bis2806
Feb 23rd, 2003, 03:43 AM
only 2 singles titles last year :rolleyes: plus her win over lindsay was lucky considering lindsay wasn't at her peak form yet.... and possibly still isn't.... and jen was prolly just choking again

Fingon
Feb 23rd, 2003, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by bis2806
only 2 singles titles last year :rolleyes: plus her win over lindsay was lucky considering lindsay wasn't at her peak form yet.... and possibly still isn't.... and jen was prolly just choking again

Jen was prolly? is that serious? I never heard of that word before.

But probably someone with brain damage like you confused it with something else.

Fingon
Feb 23rd, 2003, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by bis2806
only 2 singles titles last year :rolleyes: plus her win over lindsay was lucky considering lindsay wasn't at her peak form yet.... and possibly still isn't.... and jen was prolly just choking again

BTW, how many singles titles has "jen" won?

Fingon
Feb 23rd, 2003, 03:55 AM
Originally posted by gladysharon
why minus 2? :confused:

because the wta ranking only takes into consideration the 17 best results.

Before Dubai, Justine's RG results (2 points) was included in her points total. Since she got more points in Dubai those two points are excluded.

BasicTennis
Feb 23rd, 2003, 03:58 AM
Justine played great from semis to finals.;)

well done to Justine & Monica!!!!

Fingon
Feb 23rd, 2003, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by bis2806
only 2 singles titles last year :rolleyes: plus her win over lindsay was lucky considering lindsay wasn't at her peak form yet.... and possibly still isn't.... and jen was prolly just choking again

oh I forgot idiot2806, I saw your topic asking for WTA rankings, I have them all but I wasn't going to help someone as annoying as you are.

gladysharon
Feb 23rd, 2003, 05:13 AM
Originally posted by Fingon
because the wta ranking only takes into consideration the 17 best results.

Before Dubai, Justine's RG results (2 points) was included in her points total. Since she got more points in Dubai those two points are excluded.


Thanks for telling Fingon! :)

Fedcup
Feb 23rd, 2003, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by bis2806
only 2 singles titles last year :rolleyes: plus her win over lindsay was lucky considering lindsay wasn't at her peak form yet.... and possibly still isn't.... and jen was prolly just choking again

Yeah and the opponent of Justine was this and that and so on. It has all to do with her opponents. Lindsay,Capriati and Seles. They all lost blame to themselfs. For sure ...

btw you're right she only won just to 2 tourneys last year. Winning Berlin (a Tier1) beating cappy in the semis (but it was the fault of cappy) and Serena in the final (oh yes, you're right Serena wasn't just on top form on clay)

Winning only 2 tourneys last year. That's NOT MUCH. And that in a year that Venus and Serena dominated and won almost everything they could. Justine only played 6 finals in 2002 (and five against a williams sister) No I agree with you. It has more to do with her opponents and luck. Justine doens't deserve her ranking?????????????

BelgianGirl
Feb 23rd, 2003, 11:49 AM
Well said, Fedcup! :p

bis2806
Feb 23rd, 2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Fingon
oh I forgot idiot2806, I saw your topic asking for WTA rankings, I have them all but I wasn't going to help someone as annoying as you are.

too bad i've already got them :o

go justine!!! lol:bounce:

Experimentee
Feb 23rd, 2003, 01:04 PM
She definietely deserves the #4 coz shes playing like it right now. She just defeated Jen, Monica and Lindsay on hardcourts which is probably her worst surface but their best, and she is defiinitely mentally stronger than last year, fighting back in a final when down. I'd say shes the 4th best player.

Filip!
Feb 23rd, 2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Fedcup
Yeah and the opponent of Justine was this and that and so on. It has all to do with her opponents. Lindsay,Capriati and Seles. They all lost blame to themselfs. For sure ...

btw you're right she only won just to 2 tourneys last year. Winning Berlin (a Tier1) beating cappy in the semis (but it was the fault of cappy) and Serena in the final (oh yes, you're right Serena wasn't just on top form on clay)

Winning only 2 tourneys last year. That's NOT MUCH. And that in a year that Venus and Serena dominated and won almost everything they could. Justine only played 6 finals in 2002 (and five against a williams sister) No I agree with you. It has more to do with her opponents and luck. Justine doens't deserve her ranking?????????????

You're right Fedcup, playing 6 finals in 2002... yeah, that's bad and probably she had a lot of luck... I think the opponents were all injured, sick or just shaking! Justine can 't tennis, it's all about luck in Justine's career!

Reaching 3 semifinals and winning one tournament in 2003 is also pretty bad! She only won against Lindsay because Lindsay was not in her best form, Justine was playing really bad... Defeating Myskina, Seles and Capriati (= 3 top 10 players) in one week is also not very good! Myskina was tired, Seles was just not concentrated and Capriati forgot to win... Justine had a lot of luck, yeah, she really can not tennis...

Oh, since Zurich, Justine hasn't lost against a player who is ranked lower... Only Wx2 and Kim could defeat her, but all the other players lost... Nah, just luck Justine...

You're right bis2806, Justine does not deserve her ranking, she just had a lot of luck!

I still have one question bis2806: Do you know anything about tennis or are you just stupid?

sartrista7
Feb 23rd, 2003, 01:33 PM
It surprises me that no one's mentioned the surface variable when discussing Justine... I know that surface matters much less on the WTA than the ATP, but it really does matter for Justine. Specifically... she is absolutely awesome on clay and can beat anyoneat any given time; she is a solid top 5, probably top 4 player on grass, indoors and Rebound Ace, though she has her problems with the Williams sisters and sometimes Kim; she doesn't cut it in the top 5 on US hardcourts. Which makes sense, when you consider how she plays.

Volcana's analysis actually bears this out. I'd argue that the RG disaster (really, this was due to illness) didn't send her into a tailspin so much as the transition to US hardcourts: she followed it up with her best Slam result of the year at Wimbledon. Then she had the hardcourt tailspin (in keeping with most years), and picked up once she got back indoors. I don't expect too much from her at Key Biscayne - though it would be nice if she showed signs of improvement.

Overall.. I don't think she can be labelled as the fourth best player in the world as easily as has been done. On Rebound Ace and indoors, there's a very good case for it. But she's better than Kim on clay, and probably on grass as well. It's possible that she's close to Venus and Serena on clay.

venusfan
Feb 23rd, 2003, 02:01 PM
1: 7273 WILLIAMS, SERENA

***HUGE GAP***

2: 5096 WILLIAMS, VENUS

**BIG GAP**

3: 3958 CLIJSTERS, KIM
4: 3283 HENIN-HARDENNE, JUSTINE


**GAP**

EVERYONE ELSE

fleemke³
Feb 23rd, 2003, 02:42 PM
Lol I still can't believe it :rolleyes: Justine is in the top 10 (5) for over 2 years now and she still doesn't diserve it!
She already played 3 semis and won a tournament this year, in 2 months!

Venus en Serena are 'untouchable' but Kim isn't! Give us some more confrontations on grass and gravel and the head-2-head will look completly different!

Go Justine :)

Infiniti2001
Feb 23rd, 2003, 03:02 PM
But I do think Kim can get over Venus. Kim is now about 900 points behind, but Venus is not defending Amelia Island, that would make a gap of around 600 points.

I think Kim has a fair chance of winning Indian Wells, about 400 points, plus what she can get in Scottsdale and Miami. Then it's Warsaw but I think Venus is not going to play there. So, if Kim keeps playing like she has been until now she has a shot at the # 2 before RG, and even more after.

First of all, Kim is NOT "about 900 points behind." She is 1034 points behind. You can't just take over 100 points and pitch them in the garbage to help her vanguish the horrible Williams devil. Second of all, you can't just award Kim IW as if it's a given. The fact remains, no one knows how well she will play in upcoming weeks and we don't know when or where Venus will choose to play. I find it hard to believe she won't play at least one of the spring American tournaments. Of course this is just my opinion.

harloo
Feb 23rd, 2003, 03:27 PM
Well, I don't think it will matter if Kim gets to #2 or not. Venus will still beat her when it matters. I feel that Venus may pick up some tournaments to maintain her lead, but if she doesn't then I still don't think Kimmy will pass her.

Also, Justine is a Tier 3 player at the moment, and that's because she can't get past the big 3 when it matters most. She is getting better IMO, because she is taking out Cap, and Monica and that's no small feat. However for her to get to the next level she has to be able to challenge Kim. Getting beaten by her 2,3 or 1,1 is not a challenge. Then she has to find someway to beat the Williams outside of clay courts, otherwise she won't be winning any slams anytime soon. JMO.

arn
Feb 23rd, 2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by harloo
Well, I don't think it will matter if Kim gets to #2 or not. Venus will still beat her when it matters. I feel that Venus may pick up some tournaments to maintain her lead, but if she doesn't then I still don't think Kimmy will pass her.



I agree Venus would still win most of the times but it does matter if Kim gets to #2. It would mean there as only left a maximum of a 50% chance for an all-Williams final at a GS. It would mean a possible Serena-Venus semi again and a way to make the gab between Kim and Venus in points bigger if Kim gets to the final and Venus is defeated by Serena in the semis.

The next months will be interesting :) :) :)

gladysharon
Feb 23rd, 2003, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by Kim-Juju!
You're right Fedcup, playing 6 finals in 2002... yeah, that's bad and probably she had a lot of luck... I think the opponents were all injured, sick or just shaking! Justine can 't tennis, it's all about luck in Justine's career!

Reaching 3 semifinals and winning one tournament in 2003 is also pretty bad! She only won against Lindsay because Lindsay was not in her best form, Justine was playing really bad... Defeating Myskina, Seles and Capriati (= 3 top 10 players) in one week is also not very good! Myskina was tired, Seles was just not concentrated and Capriati forgot to win... Justine had a lot of luck, yeah, she really can not tennis...

Oh, since Zurich, Justine hasn't lost against a player who is ranked lower... Only Wx2 and Kim could defeat her, but all the other players lost... Nah, just luck Justine...

You're right bis2806, Justine does not deserve her ranking, she just had a lot of luck!

I still have one question bis2806: Do you know anything about tennis or are you just stupid?


Wow Kim-Juju, at first when I was reading your post I thought you were so against Justine...mentioning that all she achieved was all luck...then when I read the last part...LOL...then I know you're trying to counter someone... :D

VRULES
Feb 23rd, 2003, 04:43 PM
Ok. Venus should get to the final of Miami which she would add point. Venus will probably play either AMiele Island or Warsaw. Kim isn't playing Warsaw, and that is the week she beat Venus for the title, so she is gonna lose 300 points and if Venus doesn't play that one she would lose like 180 points. Venus didn't play a lot of great players at Amiele Island, and now this year if she plays and wins she should get more qualitly points. Venus didn't play IO and she should final there adding 300+ points. Then at Both RG and WImby (one of which she should win probably WImby, which would add 400 points) she had low QP her first top 15 player at WImby was in the SF and it was Henin. The rest where 20 or below (I think Raymond was like 19 at the time) And other than Monica and Serena she didn't play a top player at RG (remember Chanda was in the 40 during RG). im should add points at RG, but she does not do well on grass. She probably won't get to the SF. The sisters and Henin should then the fourth spot is up for grabs, but I would be surprised if she made the SF. Venus is vey consistent. She usually defends her titles if she deciede to play the tourney again. The hard court season is venus's. SHe should win at least 2 of them and probably will win the other. Then she will probably add points at moscow and Swisscom which are both tier ones, and Kim will lose a few points, because Rena will be playing those tournements, unless Kim can find a way to beat Rena.

So Kim could get to number 2 but it is unlikely. Venus is the most consistant player on tour, and will at least final the tournies she won last year. Kim played well at the beginnning of last year to so she might go through the slump again (probably not but still could). Venus is a better player on all surfaces than Kim. She is the best player along with Rena on hardcourt, and is the best on grass, and she is along with Rena and Henin the best CLay player. Kim is probably with the four but I think Henin is better than Kim on both clay and grass, so she is only fouth on best clay players, plus monica does well on clay too. SO unless Venus doens'T play the clay season, and Kim wins a a few tournies then VEnus should be number 2 until after WImby. Rena will probably Defend her points from GO (win it, and IO (fianl it), then she will probably win FO. SHe unless Kim beats Rena at one of those events, she has a very slim chance or passin Venus, jut with istory in hand!

~|Naomi|~
Feb 24th, 2003, 12:02 AM
Kim isn't playing Warsaw,

Where did you read this?:confused:

~|Naomi|~
Feb 24th, 2003, 12:03 AM
Also if she doesn't it doesn't matter so much as she has nothing to defend in Berlin the next week, but I find it hard to believe that Kim won't be playing Warsaw week even if it is somewhere other than Warsaw like a lower tier event

cynicole
Jun 9th, 2003, 06:38 AM
*bump for perspective*

Okay, I know that some of you really, really hate it when someone bumps up old threads. (And despite this being created just a few months ago, it really feels old right now.)

I just thought this one was a very interesting read...in hindsight.

1jackson2001
Jun 9th, 2003, 06:44 AM
yes interesting in hindsight

sartrista7
Jun 9th, 2003, 12:48 PM
It surprises me that no one's mentioned the surface variable when discussing Justine... I know that surface matters much less on the WTA than the ATP, but it really does matter for Justine. Specifically... she is absolutely awesome on clay and can beat anyoneat any given time; she is a solid top 5, probably top 4 player on grass, indoors and Rebound Ace, though she has her problems with the Williams sisters and sometimes Kim; she doesn't cut it in the top 5 on US hardcourts. Which makes sense, when you consider how she plays.


I told you so :p

It still surprises me to see people seeing Justine's win in RG as a 'changing of the guard' and hyping her up to win Wimbledon. She's got a better chance now that her serve is something of a weapon and she's got the confidence... but LOL, V and S are still miles ahead of the rest on grass. But Justine's RG win was certainly predictable, and I wouldn't be surprised if she dominated on clay for a good few years yet.

Rtael
Jun 9th, 2003, 12:57 PM
Oh yeah...a SF and F at Wimbledon, and there are just other players miles ahead of her....and pfffftt at whoever said Justine was a Tier 3 player.... she's won a GS two Tier I's and a Tier II this year....I think that's enough to make ya taste that toe-jam in your mouth.... :rolleyes:

Fedcup
Jun 9th, 2003, 01:06 PM
Oh yeah...a SF and F at Wimbledon, and there are just other players miles ahead of her....and pfffftt at whoever said Justine was a Tier 3 player.... she's won a GS two Tier I's and a Tier II this year....I think that's enough to make ya taste that toe-jam in your mouth.... :rolleyes:

And she already beated Jennifer,Davenport and Seles on hardcourt this year. But yeah she's only a Clay player? Right?