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TeeRexx
Feb 16th, 2003, 01:35 PM
Congrats VENUS because you just sent a message to the rest of the top ten and the tour that you are going after little sis and the rest of the slams.

Congrats Goddess on your first, of many, titles this year!

gopher
Feb 16th, 2003, 01:45 PM
Millions of people demonstrated against the American bully today. People like you unfortunately confirm this wrong image of the US.

Harju.
Feb 16th, 2003, 01:46 PM
congrats Venus :bounce:

:eek: at the scores

Shuji Shuriken
Feb 16th, 2003, 01:47 PM
Woohoo...way to go Venus!!! My love, my Quuen. Great job Vee. Love you love you :hearts: :kiss: :worship:.

Experimentee
Feb 16th, 2003, 01:52 PM
Congratulations Venus! :bounce:

Chance
Feb 16th, 2003, 01:52 PM
TR-Venus had a similar score against Serena in the GS finals,last year .....was Vee clobbered

gopher - give me a quote of that type of "attitude" Venus and Serena have

CONGRATULATIONS VENUS :D
Title 29
woohoo -you're on the right track

Good fight Kim- Very gracious in defeat :) Good luck in your doubles final

Nimi
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:02 PM
Go Vee :)
Good win, now get a Slam from little sis!

Josh
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:02 PM
Gopher, crawl back into your cave.
Venus was simply the best today and was very gracious in her interview like she always is.

SerenaSlam
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:02 PM
sunset
- yes venus was clobbered by serena, she was too good, serena clobbered her at the french, wimbledon, and us opens last year, i have no problem saying that sunset. does that make you feel better?

selesfan
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:04 PM
Millions of people demonstrated against the American bully today. People like you and the attitude of the Sisters unfortunately confirm this wrong image of the US.

Funny I see these kind of threads when other players win but it is only a problem when an American wins, especially 2 Americans.:rolleyes:

Congrats Venus!:bounce: :bounce:

Chance
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:09 PM
Are you TR, SerenaSlam? :rolleyes:

spokenword73
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:10 PM
Congrats Venus!

diamonds are a girls best friend!! :D

Informative
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:12 PM
Congratulations Venus. Good match Kim. Gopher, your comments are simply idiotic. To compare the global antiwar sentiment against American military intervention in Iraq to TeeRexx's post celebrating the outcome of a tennis match and to further assert that the Williams sisters so-called "attitude" represent the "bullying image" of America is not only completely false and absurdly unfair, but unbelievably stupid. Are you really that upset that Venus won today? It's only a game, LOL. Where is your sense of proportion (and common sense)?

Weevee
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:18 PM
Congrats

SerenaSlam
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:19 PM
sunset-
when you :rolleyes: it only makes me laugh, no im not TR, but guess what, i bet that is what his response would be, but i guess that is all you could really say, since coming from a willams fan i said serena clobbered venus. now if TR says the same thing what will you say or do? i think you will also be the 1 to eat your words and just follow it up w/ a :rolleyes: right?

TeeRexx
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:22 PM
Sunset - Yes, VENUS got clobbered by her little sis.

Gopher - VENUS played the best player in Belgium, in her home country, in front of a highly partisan and a a little beligerant home crowd and WON in two decisive sets.

VENUS is no bully.

Your political issues on U.S foreign policy are not directly nor indirectly related to a women's tennis match.
Many U.S. citizens do not want war as was illustrated by the numerous and large anti war demonstrations on U.S. soil and abroad.
Most citizens would desire to have the emphasis of the government to be placed on civil right and economic issues, but there is a president, whom I did not vote for, who has a different direction in which he wants the country to go.

Back to the subject once more:

Congrats VENUS on a very good win over a good player!

Elke
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:27 PM
Maybe you don't like to hear it, but the crowd was really fair.

Congrats, Venus, a deserved win!

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:35 PM
Yes, the Belgians are awesome fans - I really appreciate that.

Congrats Venus on your first title of the year! :D

Venus Forever
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:45 PM
THE QUEEN REIGNS SUPREME!!

:bounce::worship::bounce::worship::bounce:

Nemesis
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:53 PM
Congrats Venus. A deserved win!!! Totally.

She must really love those diamonds. She didn't even let a set go to 7-something. This promises something for next year! I really want to see her reaction when she can take it home. She has to win one more time of course.

schris
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:57 PM
Congratulations Venus !!! :)

Infiniti2001
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:57 PM
http://members.fortunecity.com/missy977/1eb3fabc0.jpg

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:58 PM
I know. Next year will be nerve-wracking - the pressure to win that racquet! ;)

Uxobi
Feb 16th, 2003, 03:03 PM
Congratulations Venus!!!!!

vs1
Feb 16th, 2003, 03:14 PM
YAY!!! I knew Venus was focused on those diamonds! Without that incentive, it probably would've been a tighter match! But Vee sure love her some diamonds! Congrats!

TeeRexx
Feb 16th, 2003, 03:19 PM
VENUS has three more years to play and win this event to get thos diamonds, but she will probably win next year so the her baby sis can then get in the mix for that diamond filled racket. :)

Jakeev
Feb 16th, 2003, 03:41 PM
What the hell is gopher's problem and what did all that mean? Good job by Venus.

harloo
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by TeeRexx
VENUS has three more years to play and win this event to get thos diamonds, but she will probably win next year so the her baby sis can then get in the mix for that diamond filled racket. :)

I think it's only one diamond encrusted racquet given to the first player who wins the title 3 times in 5 years. So, Ree will be out of luck. However, I may be wrong. If so, then I will say that Serena will see Vee's racquet with all those diamonds and try to copy Venus. LOL:D

Bright Red
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:13 PM
Congrats Venus!

Two down. One to go. :)

I suppose it's true: diamonds are a girls best friend. :bounce:

Hendouble
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:18 PM
Hmm, those rather over-optimistic people who predicted a Clijsters victory 6-2, 6-4 at least got the score right, but unfortunately the other way round.

I doubt whether the crowds think of Venus as a bully, but I wonder whether the players themselves, in particular the "Belgium sisters", are getting sick of it. There's only so many times you can be trampled underfoot like so much worthless dust before you begin to get a teensy bit irritated, and from then on the luxurious temptation and allure of the contract killer becomes increasingly hard to resist.

brickhousesupporter
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:25 PM
Congratulations Venus. 1 more to go. If players are tired out getting trampled under foot the thing to do is get better. If you tried and still can't succede, then you just admit that a certain player or players are better than you. Not everyone was meant for the top.

oggie
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:30 PM
Well done Venus. Now play this well against your sister.

Infiniti2001
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:40 PM
Tennis-Venus sinks Clijsters in Antwerp final

By Tom Miles

ANTWERP, Belgium, Feb 16 (Reuters) - Top seed Venus Williams defeated Belgium's Kim Clijsters 6-2 6-4 to win the WTA Antwerp Diamond Games for the second year running on Sunday.

Williams is one title away from winning the one-million-euro ($1.08 million) diamond-studded racket, awarded to the player who wins the Antwerp games three times in five years.

Addressing the television cameras at the end of the match, Williams taunted her sister, Serena, to a challenge next year.

"Serena? Are you watching? Come on!," she said.

But Clijsters did not give Williams the victory without a valiant fight.

A sell-out crowd of 14,400 saw Clijsters set the early pace as the home favourite tried to wrongfoot the defending champion with a series of deep groundstrokes to both sides of the court.

"The atmosphere was just great," Clijsters said. "I enjoyed every moment out there. I started well, at the same level as her."

But Williams later took command and her consistent serves, often above 180kmh, which included a number of aces, contrasted with Clijsters's slower delivery and three double faults.

"I felt calm and ready to do my thing," Williams said.

"I was able to serve well, I had fewer double faults and always managed to get the point. I made fewer mistakes."

NOT AN INCH

The variety in Williams's game -- as she lobbed, smashed and came to the net to break up the base-line rallies -- eventually ground down her opponent and led to a comfortable victory.

"Every other time I've played her, she starts to make mistakes. But this time she didn't," said Clijsters.


"The percentage of first serves can make a lot of difference. She definitely didn't go for it as much and tried to keep her errors under control."

Williams said she had decided to turn over a new leaf.

"I have to change. New century, new millennium, Venus has to stop making mistakes," she said.
.The gospel truth

Clijsters seconded that remark.

"In all her other matches, she made some unforced errors, but in this one she didn't," she said.

Clijsters recovered well into the second set but it was too late as Williams did not yield an inch.

"I was prepared for her to fight back," the champion said. "I didn't expect her to give up."

Clijsters had beaten Williams twice in five previous meetings, but always lost on hard surfaces like the Antwerp court.

Williams said she had never experienced a crowd like the one at Antwerp. It roared its support for Clijsters and exploded with enthusiasm when, in a long rally late in the second set, Clijsters stumbled and lost her racket, but picked it up to win the point...

I'm happy as long as Vee serves well , keeps her errors down and allows her racquet to the talking :)

Bright Red
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:54 PM
Thanks for posting the article, Infiniti!

Venus is terrific!!!!!!!!!!!

Freewoman33
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:55 PM
"I have to change. New century, new millennium, Venus has to stop making mistakes," she said.

Amen Venus.

TeeRexx
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:55 PM
Yes, I feel that baby sis is now on VENUS' hit list. :)

oggie
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:57 PM
Venus is starting to talk in third person, but other than that, great news.

starr
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:04 PM
Venus beat up good on Kimmy today. It sounds as if she played great.

Said she had "no choice" but to defend next year... yeah... well, I guess when you divide the tournaments in half there aren't many choices.

Good luck to Kimmy next time.

And Venus! Hey, girl... really think about that schedule, will you? WAY WAY too many tournaments you are playing... Stay home. Get a life. Four a year is plenty, doncha think?

BombsAway
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:12 PM
The first set tells the tale. Kim started fighting in the 2nd but it was already over in the first.

Kim v. Venus sets are pretty much 6-2's.

Deira
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:15 PM
Congratulations Venus girl!!! All hail Queen Vee :) :) :)

Bероника
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:16 PM
Congrats,Venus!!!
Another big triumph for you!!!

Hawk
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:20 PM
Congrats on the well deserved win Venus..even though you beat Kimmie :( :p

Good tournament Kim! :kiss:

Rocketta
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:21 PM
The variety in Williams's game -- as she lobbed, smashed and came to the net to break up the base-line rallies -- eventually ground down her opponent and led to a comfortable victory.

Did he say Variety?? :eek: :eek: ;)

I thought Williams sisters didn't know what that word meant. I guess they do. :)

Congrats Venus!!!

Hendouble
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:26 PM
Well Serena certainly knows what it means - it's probably what she reads on set while waiting to continue the acting career that her tennis has been obstructing all these years, right?

vishniac
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:36 PM
Woo-hoo!
I just watched it on Eurosport.
Venus reached out for perfection, very concentrated on her footwork, and made very few errors while attacking every ball.
Incredible!

And the way she looked at that diamond racket...her eyes were shining!

The public, on the other hand, could have behaved better.
Even the French commentators, usually not biased towards the Sisters, told of "lack of fair-play", "crossing the borders of decency" and "a minority of reptilian brains" for their continuous booing.

GO VEE!

Hendouble
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:40 PM
Blimey! French commentators are certainly not lacking in vocabulary and originality of expression, are they? 'A minority of reptilian brains'... just the sort of thing you'd find whenever a Frenchie was playing an American at Roland Garros, really.

TeeRexx
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:44 PM
Hendouble - You are living proof that Neo Nazis are alive and mentally sick as ever.

Hendouble
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:48 PM
Uh-huh....

Well, never let it be said that posters on wtaworld don't come up with interesting observations! Honestly, 'twas but a joke, based upon the remarkable turns of phrase that French people are able to come up with. I was merely commenting on the frequently vociferous nature of French support for their home players, not trying to make some kind of racial slur against the French, for goodness' sake!

TeeRexx
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:04 PM
----
Blimey! French commentators are certainly not lacking in vocabulary and originality of expression, are they? 'A minority of reptilian brains'... just the sort of thing you'd find whenever a Frenchie was playing an American at Roland Garros, really.

------
Uh huh.

Maybe you just said what you meant, eh?

Hendouble
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:08 PM
And maybe I didn't... a sense of humour is such an important gift, don't let it shrivel away by spending too much time on this board, I beg of you.

LucasArg
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:20 PM
Congrats Venus!!!!:bounce:

TSequoia01
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:29 PM
Just want to give a holla to Venus on a job well done. Holla! :cool:

Iconoclast
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by TeeRexx
Hendouble - You are living proof that Neo Nazis are alive and mentally sick as ever.
TeeRexx, you usually display a sense of humor and a firm grasp of the English language. It's therefore regrettable to see you stoop to this crude level.

I interpreted Hendouble's comment as a stab at the sometimes rowdy crowds of the Roland Garros. What did you read?

LozHippy
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:37 PM
Congrats Venus :)

Now if we don't count the 0-5 ret vs Clijsters in LA, Venus has not lost in a WTA tournament to any player other than her sister for 8 months? :D

Venere e Davide
Feb 16th, 2003, 07:37 PM
VENUS....GODDESS OF LOVE AND BEAUTY

VENUS....TRULY OUT OF THIS WORLD

VENUS....BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO!!

Jakeev
Feb 16th, 2003, 07:49 PM
Actually I think TeeRex has met his match in Hendouble.......

Get out the popcorn folks things are getting good around here:D

spokenword73
Feb 16th, 2003, 07:53 PM
any pics of Vee with trophy/plate??

Crazy Canuck
Feb 16th, 2003, 07:54 PM
I think that Tee Rexx has met his match against anybody who can write above a grade 8 level.

starr
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:00 PM
lol, Rebecca.

Uxobi
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:04 PM
Tee should have no problems dealing with Rebecca!

Uxobi
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:05 PM
:sad: for Rebecca and starr

Crazy Canuck
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:10 PM
Uxobi, if you are going to insult me could you at least make an effort to come up with something good?

The sad smiley combined with hinting at my apparent lack of writing skill was very weak.

Uxobi
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:12 PM
Thanks! I knew you still cared!

Crazy Canuck
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:15 PM
Of course I care. Why right now I'm going to go buy a bag of chips to eat away my depression on the bus ride home. There isn't enough kleenex in the world to wipe away the tears that you have caused.

maccardel
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:18 PM
Venus is talking in third person...she's going to see her therapist next week..hence her withdrawal from Dubai,'

Didn't you know that Venus cannot venture far away from home for too long...she starts to refer to herself in the third person and also have dilusions....hence the challenge to Serena...girl do you want to win that racquet or what?......shut your mouth.........I guess that's when Oracene realized it was time to take lil' Vee home.....

lol

Uxobi
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:19 PM
Rebecca as Hendouble....definitely NOT!

Infiniti2001
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:19 PM
any pics of Vee with trophy/plate??

Not the plate but------

http://ludie.zandalea.net/795.jpg

http://ludie.zandalea.net/798.jpg

Hulet
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:19 PM
Obsession is indeed a very hard thing to get rid of. Isn't it rebecca?

That said, screw those belgian cnuts that booed venus today. A totally classless bunch.

Uxobi
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:21 PM
Rebecca is a prime example!

Hendouble
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:24 PM
I really cannot believe I have precipitated such iniquitous acrimony on these hallowed message boards. I assure you TeeRex, I have never had any leanings toward neo-Nazism to the best of my knowledge, although I do know a few people whose attitudes do seem to verge on the fascistic at times. Quite a few of them can be found around here, in fact. ;)

Hendouble
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:25 PM
You're quite right, eta psi - I hate Belgians who try to masquerade as Egyptian rulers too.

Hulet
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:33 PM
Witty Hendouble :) I am curious about who your fave is, though. So far you have posted 84 messages in this board and in 23 threads. Of those 23, 14 of those threads you posted on are directly or indirectly related to venus or serena. That is more than half of the total threads. Are you also suffering from the "Rebecca Syndrom" (more than normal level of obsession with the williams)? Seriosly though, who are your faves and why aren't most of your posts dedicated to them?

Hendouble
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:39 PM
Well, it's a good argument, but I don't really have many favourites as such in the women's game simply because I know that in all the big tournaments that count, they'll get to the latter stages and then be eliminated by Williams/Williams. Mauresmo, Hantuchova and the Belgians all rate highly with me, as does Schnyder, but in most threads around here their names are simply referred to tangentially in relation to the Williamses, who always dominate the discussion be it positive or negative.

I don't start any of these threads, I just contribute to them, and as I've said elsewhere I don't buy the argument of "If you dislike them so much, why don't you stop posting in threads about them?" Everyone has a right to express their opinion, and since so little of the discussion in here is actually about real tennis, I find it necessary to resort to talking about players and their personalities and getting absorbed in these rather trivial and circuitous debates about the Williams sisters.

BombsAway
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:44 PM
But it's ALL ABOUT THE WILLIAMS SISTERS!

Let somebody BEAT one. She'll be crowned and get a coronation ball.

That's why they WON'T lose. unless they are tired or simply unenthused. Hence the short schedules.

They pick their tournaments to Win.....not to Show UP.

Hendouble
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:50 PM
Exactly. This message board is a perfect reflection of why the Williams sisters' dominance of the WTA is so bad for the game. No point in discussions about different game styles, no point in examining depth and competition for Grand Slams, no point in predicting who will be in with a chance to win the next big event, because it all leads back to the same thing. Honestly, anyone ranked below 20 in the women's game is a complete blur to me, I know nothing about them, and I know that it's going to stay that way because of the small cadre of players who control the upper echelons of women's tennis.

1jackson2001
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:56 PM
Job well done Venus. Now play this well the rest of the year please...including against Serena.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by LozHippy
Congrats Venus :)

Now if we don't count the 0-5 ret vs Clijsters in LA, Venus has not lost in a WTA tournament to any player other than her sister for 8 months? :D

Unfortunately, that's not true. Maggie Maleeva beat her in a 3rd set TB at Moscow last year in the 2nd rd.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Feb 16th, 2003, 09:01 PM
That was a good article.....I like it when Venus gets philosophical about herself in a cute way

"New year, New millenium, new Venus".....

It doesn't make much sense, but I like it.

starr
Feb 16th, 2003, 09:01 PM
I'm sure there's a reason that doesn't count. :)

TeeRexx
Feb 16th, 2003, 09:09 PM
VENUS is really going to going hard after the Roland Garros and Wimbledon titles from her statements and play.

Go VENUS!

Volcana
Feb 16th, 2003, 09:11 PM
TeeRexx - Surely Hendouble is not the best example of Neo-Nazism on the board these days.

That aside, Hendouble, I have a dispute with you.

You write
Exactly. This message board is a perfect reflection of why the Williams sisters' dominance of the WTA is so bad for the game. No point in discussions about different game styles, no point in examining depth and competition for Grand Slams, no point in predicting who will be in with a chance to win the next big event, because it all leads back to the same thing. Honestly, anyone ranked below 20 in the women's game is a complete blur to me, I know nothing about them, and I know that it's going to stay that way because of the small cadre of players who control the upper echelons of women's tennis.

I completely disagree. It's attitudes like YOURS towards the other players that's the problem. I've posted threads in the last month or so about most of the top ten, plus threads about players down to almost #100. Few people participate. I think it was two days before my Paola Suarez thread got more than 5 responses. People here DO post about other than the elite players. Where are you in those threads. In that same month, I've seen threads about Rubin, Daniilidou, Bovina, Myskina Stevenson, Maleeva, 'young Russians', Nicole Pratt, and of course, the ever popular Anna K.

There have been threads about net play vs all court play, backhands, forehands, serving, inside out forehands, tactical tennis and mental strength.

You could post in those threads. There are a lot of them. It's not all about the Williams sisters around here, unless those are the only threads you post in.

TeeRexx
Feb 16th, 2003, 09:29 PM
Volcana is trying to bring logic to the terminally illogical. :)

Iconoclast
Feb 16th, 2003, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by TeeRexx
Volcana is trying to bring logic to the terminally illogical.
Speaking of logic. Care to expand on the logical backdrop of your public accusations concerning National Socialist leanings?

Sam L
Feb 16th, 2003, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by TeeRexx
...but there is a president, whom I did not vote for, who has a different direction in which he wants the country to go.
[/B]

Maybe I do like you afterall ;)

Volcana
Feb 16th, 2003, 10:09 PM
Hendouble - This belabors the point, but youhave to see that it's NOT 'all-Williams, all the time'. The board is what you make it. Below is a list of all my thread ttiles in the last 30 days. And I'm a dedicated Williams fan. Most people don't post nearly as much about V & S as I do. But you see even obsessive types like me post about other things. Just SKIP the threads about the WIlliams sisters


summary
-----------
19 General
15 Williams
9 Statistical Analyses
5 Rankings
5 race
2 doubles
2 Predictions

2 Kim
3 Justine
2 Hantuchova
2 Amelie
1 Dokic
2 Monica
2 Bovina
1 Daniilidou
1 Lisa Raymnd
1 Paola Suarez
2 Hingis
1 Margaret Court
1 Anna K


Here are the thread titles broken down by topic

--------
Williams
--------
Back in the days of ancient Rome, they told the following tale of the Gods....

45 times

Venus and Serena, rigging the OZ draw

Who's going to be better than Serena is now?

Serena Williams makes her 'Serena Slam' by Sandra Hewitt

Venus in OZ so far

Serena vs Kim: Some notes

Hantuchova vs Williams:Stats

Putting old challenges to bed (and lining up a new one)

Williams v Daniilidou update

Well, oddly, this doesn't hurt nearly as much as the other three

Clisters QF stats vs Serena QF stats

Williams vs Williams notes as I go

Dear Gopher

Serena really IS #1

--------------------
Statistical Analyses
--------------------

#4, #8, #10 ranking, at RG

Maxim Gorky analyzes tennis

Points off til clay season as a chart

Top 25 Post OZ : Assessed

'base til you're faced

"You are what your record says you are."

Top 12 head-to-head: 2003

Hantuchova played more matches than anyone else in the top 20 last year

Race 2 Chase / Points per Tournament

--------------
Rankings
--------------

after TPP rank

Top 25 right now

02-13-03 Chase/Race

Projected Singles Ranking entering Dubai

Rankings Top 12 (should be) 02-17-03

----
race (doesn't it seem like more?:)
----

Race and this message board

To my fellow race-baiters ....

Nice side effect of Kim being #1

There are only two BLACK Slam winners left in the draw

Racist louts should get boot

-------
doubles
-------

Doubles and the designated hitter rule

Williams/Williams vs Suarez/Ruano Pascual

-----------
Predictions
-----------

Dr. Living Lock is Here! (All my predictions come true)

Antwerp predictions


---
Kim
---

The Great White Hope: Is Kim Clijsters ready for the WIlliams Sisters?

Did the 'Great Whi .... oops sorry .... Anti-Williams Hype' hurt Kim?

-------
Justine
-------

Poetic Justice?

Why can't Justine beat Kim?

Does Justine deserve the #4 ranking

----------
Hantuchova
----------

Dani H - What if winless? What does it mean?

Hunting Hantuchova

------
Amelie
------

Mauresmo in Doubt (since refuted)

Mauresmo to #6, reaches Paris final

-----
Dokic
-----

Jelena Dokic - Past 12 months

------
Monica
------

Monica stats for past 12 months

seleseleseleseleseleseleseles

------
Bovina
------

Jailbreak - Bovina to top ten

Bovina : Jan 2002 - now

----------
Daniilidou
----------

Eleni Daniilidou & Gabriella Sabatini

------------
Paola Suarez
------------

Could Paola Suarez get a top sixteen seed at Roland Garros?

------
Hingis
------

Could Hingis coach?

Would Martina's retirement have been written about differenntly....

--------------
Margaret Court
--------------

THe most devastating player of them all

-----------
Lisa Raymnd
-----------

Raymond, Stubbs, Olympics

------
Anna K
------

Is Kournikova becoming irrelevant?

-------
General
-------

If both players return every ball, the points will all end in unforced errors

If the WTA went to wood racquets....

Hypothetical case: Burnout?

My favorite sports story of the year 2000

Times of Live ESPN coverage of women this weekend

SuperBowl / OZ

Is this the weakest #3-#10 in WTA history?

Why should the ITF follow the WTA rankings?

WE DON'T WANT PETTY, STUPID THREADS IN ALL CAPS!

Wulff leaves as WTA Tour CEO

The Old Guard, The Youth Movement and The Usual Suspects

If you hate 'power tennis' .....

Who in the Top 20 is next going to beat someone ranked ahead of them?

Love of the game

Info on search for WTA head

Is the term 'bitch-slapped' just trivializing domestic violence?


Which active player would be the best coach for each of the top fifteen?

Who's the fifth best player in the world?

Why not make the ball heavier? - This last one kind of makes YOUR point. I got attacked for being ANTI-Williams for starting that thread. I had thought it was about a way to fairly bring a little serve-and-volley back to the game. If every response is about Venus and Serena, the actual topic doesn't matter.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 17th, 2003, 01:46 AM
Obsession is indeed a very hard thing to get rid of. Isn't it rebecca?

Obsession? What exactly contitutes obsession in your idea of the word? Sure I have voodoo dolls of both the sisters that I constantly poke holes in everynight, sure I plae their faces on frequently used dart boards as an attempt to perfect my aim. To be honest I even surf all 67000 of their websites just to make sure that I didn't miss out on anything that I could rip them apart for. But really, obsession? That's going a tad far, no?

What exactly are your qualifications to develop your own pyschological theory known as "Rebecca sydrome" and start to diagnose people with it?

starr
Feb 17th, 2003, 01:51 AM
Does it make your arms itch?... 'cause .......

Hey, Volcano... you've got an obesessive thing going on.. ;)

But how can you say that a title that actually contains the word "Williams" in it isn't about the Williams sisters. I think you need a recount... there are hanging chads all over that post.

SerenaSlam
Feb 17th, 2003, 02:17 AM
"Every other time I've played her, she starts to make mistakes. But this time she didn't," said Clijsters.

I think she knows and realizes that the match was never in her hands to win. She has to count of errors or "mistakes" from venus and serena to even have a damn chance in a match. A every good example is when Kim did manage to beat Venus at Hamburg 2002. She said "in the first set venus was just too good, she was hitting winners all over the place, she just hoped she would start making some errors in the second set" which venus did and for the rest of the match, but kim still struggled to beat her. But really this is the case. If venus or serena are making errors, it is about the only chance anyone has in beating them. Its basically just giving them points.

When you analyze a match, and say like w/ Serena vs. Kim at the OZ...Kim won 100pts, and of those 100 pts, serena gave her w/ 65 errors, so that really tells you that kim only won 35 outright points. Serena won 104 points, and of those kim gave her 33 w/ errors. serena had twice the amount of errors! But serena won 71 pionts. over twice the amount of points clijsters won. So really you could see here that the match was in the hands of serena to win or loose, and she almost lost it by giving clijsters all those points!

Crazy Canuck
Feb 17th, 2003, 02:31 AM
It's hard not to notice how many of Volcana's threads - related or not - turned into a discussion about the Williams sisters. For example, even the thread about wooden racquets turned into a pool of nonsense thanks to the input of a few.

The few that didn't turn into Williams Sisters discussions along the lines somewhere, died a horrible death.

Dokic#1
Feb 17th, 2003, 02:45 AM
Venus was up in the second set like 5-1????

She must really feel comfortable on this court...

GO VENUS!!...I hope she wins the racquet.

GoGoMaggie
Feb 17th, 2003, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by SerenaSlam
I think she knows and realizes that the match was never in her hands to win. She has to count of errors or "mistakes" from venus and serena to even have a damn chance in a match. A every good example is when Kim did manage to beat Venus at Hamburg 2002. She said "in the first set venus was just too good, she was hitting winners all over the place, she just hoped she would start making some errors in the second set" which venus did and for the rest of the match, but kim still struggled to beat her. But really this is the case. If venus or serena are making errors, it is about the only chance anyone has in beating them. Its basically just giving them points.

When you analyze a match, and say like w/ Serena vs. Kim at the OZ...Kim won 100pts, and of those 100 pts, serena gave her w/ 65 errors, so that really tells you that kim only won 35 outright points. Serena won 104 points, and of those kim gave her 33 w/ errors. serena had twice the amount of errors! But serena won 71 pionts. over twice the amount of points clijsters won. So really you could see here that the match was in the hands of serena to win or loose, and she almost lost it by giving clijsters all those points!


I think you count on the numbers too much. plus everything you've said is intended to show how much better the sisters are than the rest of the players and you do it in the manner with no grace in the least. We all know the sisters are far ahead of the rest but people still keep hoping someday someone will catch up with and challenge them and Kim happened to be the closest. Sure she lost to Venus rather easily and I dont know why you are so happy to jump to your usual unecessary show off. If I were a willams fan, I wouldn't feel so special with one of the sisters winning another not-so-big title, no matter whom they have beaten in the finals. I think the sisters are playing too big a part of your life and nothing wrong with that, but honestly it's quite annoying you always boasting about the sisiters in comaprison wiht other players. You can say the sisiters are the best in a different way than you usually do. but you never try...

BombsAway
Feb 17th, 2003, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by gogomaggie
I think you count on the numbers too much. plus everything you've said is intended to show how much better the sisters are than the rest of the players and you do it in the manner with no grace in the least. We all know the sisters are far ahead of the rest but people still keep hoping someday someone will catch up with and challenge them and Kim happened to be the closest. Sure she lost to Venus rather easily and I dont know why you are so happy to jump to your usual unecessary show off. If I were a willams fan, I wouldn't feel so special with one of the sisters winning another not-so-big title, no matter whom they have beaten in the finals. I think the sisters are playing too big a part of your life and nothing wrong with that, but honestly it's quite annoying you always boasting about the sisiters in comaprison wiht other players. You can say the sisiters are the best in a different way than you usually do. but you never try...
and he/she shouldn't. What's wrong with SerenaSlam enjoying her favorites triumphs.

you act as if she and the williams sisters should keep their heads down when they win.

Child. That "shrinking to fit" nonsense is history.

Keep doing whatcha doing SerenaSlam. oh, and if it hurts gogoHAGGIE - TOO BAD!

GoGoMaggie
Feb 17th, 2003, 03:16 AM
oh c'mon!!! I'm not saying they should not enjoy the sisters' triumphs. of course everyone has the right to enjoy the moment their favorite wins. I have no obejection to that. but the way some willams fans show the joy is rather annoying because they do so with no grace and with no respect for the rest of the players. I'm not making any generalizations here. I'm just talking about a handful of williams fans who can't express their happniness without showing off. I think they are doing so knowing they are getting on others' nerves.
to make things worse, when someone accuses them of being graceless, then they counterback with some illogical and more intense arguments.
anyways, that's just the way they are and I have no right to make them change.

starr
Feb 17th, 2003, 03:17 AM
I think it's fine that there is a ton of bragging going on.

The top players have only a few years to strut the stage, and the fans should enjoy it to the limit.

The great thing is that everybody always comes down, and those of us at the bottom will have that day to enjoy as well.

Of course, some like Steffie, 'cuse me, Stefanie, last a long, long time and the waiting gets tough. lol

BombsAway
Feb 17th, 2003, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by gogomaggie
oh c'mon!!! the joy is rather annoying because they do so with no grace

There is nothing graceful about Venus' 127mph BOMBS!

She play to dismantle. Why can't the fans act accordingly. Don't be confused with those cute curtsy's and political correct speaches.

BasicTennis
Feb 17th, 2003, 03:26 AM
Despite the scoreline, I believe this is one of the best matches in 2003. This shows how much Kim has improved and it's only a matter of time before she really can beat any of the William sisters. Kim needs to have a consistent service game in order to achieve this.

Venus & Kim were both impressive and they both deserve their no. 2 & no. 3 ranking right now.;)

Serena remains the most impressive.:worship:

Chance
Feb 17th, 2003, 03:36 AM
BT - is the match worth buying?

BasicTennis
Feb 17th, 2003, 03:40 AM
sunset, absolutely....I enjoyed it very much....too many long and exciting rallies.:bounce:

GoGoMaggie
Feb 17th, 2003, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by BombsAway
There is nothing graceful about Venus' 127mph BOMBS!

She play to dismantle. Why can't the fans act accordingly. Don't be confused with those cute curtsy's and political correct speaches.

Because you are a willams worshiper, you are definitely blindsided. No matter what you hear from other willams fans, that just confirms your belief in the sisters. I'm not asking you for nothing anyways.

Chance
Feb 17th, 2003, 03:45 AM
hmmmm another one to add to the list.

thanks :)

SerenaSlam
Feb 17th, 2003, 03:47 AM
oh c'mon!!! I'm not saying they should not enjoy the sisters' triumphs. of course everyone has the right to enjoy the moment their favorite wins. I have no obejection to that. but the way some willams fans show the joy is rather annoying because they do so with no grace and with no respect for the rest of the players. I'm not making any generalizations here. I'm just talking about a handful of williams fans who can't express their happniness without showing off. I think they are doing so knowing they are getting on others' nerves.

and do you ever stop to think as to why we show our joy and it ends up annoying? it is all based on the comments made before matches are played w/ the sisters in it! Everyone had hyped up Kim Clijsters, and we might as well throw Daniela Hantuchova in the mix. When a person is being arrogant to the point, that they are giving a ton of fucking reasons as to why Kim is going to win, trying to convince even those that don't think she is going to win, and when it is all obvious that venus is and always will be the "HIGH" favorite, it gets very annoying. And instead of people coming back or posting another thread stating something around the lines of "well it looks like i let my alligator mouth overload my grasshopper ass" they are run off and flee, well that is where I come into play! I go on ahead a post a whole new thread, and I ask those same haters to come in and give me there comments, over and over again, by people like sunset, volcano, they are afraid to respond, b/c they knew they were wrong w/ there predictions, they know and I know Clijsters is a very good opponent, why argue over that? the point is, she has nothing on venus or serena, and some of you all can admit that to a certain point/extent, but when the matches come into play, its you all drop venus as the favorite and somehow Kim has a very good chance. That is why we can be so arrogant when talking about venus' wins. If you people in your own way could make your "bold ass predictions" and then when you end up wrong, stick up for them instead of coming in w/ excuses or ignoring the whole matter, i don't think we would have a problem at all. Before we start anything or say anything, someone else has already got us started. most of us williams fans are not afraid to speak our mind, that is all we are doing, but some of you others feel the need to make these predictions (which again there is nothing wrong w/ doing that), but when you are wrong, why the hell can't anyone come in and admit it? why the hell do they always have to run in w/ an excuse? please explain?

starr
Feb 17th, 2003, 03:49 AM
Gosh... Your list must be getting long....

GoGoMaggie
Feb 17th, 2003, 03:59 AM
I think most of the ppl who have said Kim would beat Venus said so based on hopes. They inside knew Kim had less than little chance to beat Venus, but still if they had actually said so, then that would've meant they'd given up on Kim altogether and that way they would've lost interest. I think it's pretty natural to hype up someone who has the best chace to beat the best. whether they should admit it or not after the usual outcome, ummmm I dont think that's necessarily necessary. I dont think those who said Kim would win said so with total conviction but rather hoped that would happen. I think you shouldnt have taken their words as they were.. you are lucky to be a williams fan cuz it gives so many opporunities to enjoy their triumphs. Unlike williams fans and fans of other strong players like Justine, Lindsay n Kim, I rarely have such a moment (no offence to Maggie). but the rarer it is, the bigger joy I can get when my favorite does something big like last year's Moscow. I'm not the kind of person who made a bold prediction except jokingly, but I dont see anything wrong with ppl overhyping their favorites if that's based on their hopes. that is rather natural and positive to me.

Hawk
Feb 17th, 2003, 04:13 AM
I just wanna add that of course some fans will make excuses..that will always happen. But it definatly goes both ways..this match for example, people can say that Kim had was sick, which is true, how much it affected her? who knows..but probably not too much..she said she was feeling better so no excuse she lost...Venus won. However when Kim beat Serena in LA how many people said that Serena was tired and that she was off her game. That's also an excuse. They always go both ways and they can be annoying but I think for the sake of a little peace..why not just let it go?

Dawn Marie
Feb 17th, 2003, 04:46 AM
Well, I am gonna gloat. I am glad Vee beat Kim, it was a needed win and a great one at that. no matter who Venus plays I want her to destroy her opponent and sure it won't happen all the time, but I am going to enjoy these moments while I still got em.:):) Congrats to your first match of the year my NUBIAN QUEEN.

Go V!

BasicTennis
Feb 17th, 2003, 05:03 AM
The Belgian crowd was absolutely disgusting, the reason why I wanted Venus to win during this match. They're the exact opposite of Kim.:o

TeeRexx
Feb 17th, 2003, 10:25 AM
I guess most of those Belgian fans were full of a lot more than chocolate and waffles.

Maybe that VENUS whipping will teach them some much needed manners.

Cersei
Feb 17th, 2003, 11:04 AM
i was in the crowd and hated it when they started to boo...but not everyone did.just people who don't know shit about tennis i guess

sartrista7
Feb 17th, 2003, 12:01 PM
Venus :hearts: congrats girl. Just so much better than Kim.

servenrichie
Feb 17th, 2003, 12:50 PM
Congrats to Venus :kiss:

The Belgian crowd:mad: :fiery:

I am so happy we have this match behind us. Ever since the championships, a lot of people have been arguing that Clijsters deserves the no.2 spot more than Venus:rolleyes:

So it is a way to clear things up and establish the ranks. Kim has great potentials and she is getting scarily better every day, but Venus is still ahead by a wide margin and that is the gospel truth :) I mean that match ought to have ended at 2:2!

Volcana
Feb 17th, 2003, 01:26 PM
and do you ever stop to think as to why we show our joy and it ends up annoying? it is all based on the comments made before matches are played w/ the sisters in it! Everyone had hyped up Kim Clijsters, and we might as well throw Daniela Hantuchova in the mix. When a person is being arrogant to the point, that they are giving a ton of fucking reasons as to why Kim is going to win, trying to convince even those that don't think she is going to win, and when it is all obvious that venus is and always will be the "HIGH" favorite, it gets very annoying. And instead of people coming back or posting another thread stating something around the lines of "well it looks like i let my alligator mouth overload my grasshopper ass" they are run off and flee.....

I hadn't really thought of it in those terms, but I have to agree. Some pretty nasty anti-Williams stuff is said before virtually every match. And the responses after the match tend to be returned in kind. That said ....

I think most of the ppl who have said Kim would beat Venus said so based on hopes. They inside knew Kim had less than little chance to beat Venus, but still if they had actually said so, then that would've meant they'd given up on Kim altogether and that way they would've lost interest. I think it's pretty natural to hype up someone who has the best chace to beat the best. whether they should admit it or not after the usual outcome, ummmm I dont think that's necessarily necessary. I dont think those who said Kim would win said so with total conviction but rather hoped that would happen.

... is also true, and a rather mature viewpoint. And it covers a lot of people. However, there are Clijsters fans, and there are anti-Williams ... well, I can't call them 'fans', and i try to indiscriminantly call people 'haters'. Let's call them the anti-Williams 'herd'. I think gogmaggie is right about a lot of Clijsters fans, though when Venus was on her way up, I didn't (usually) convine myself she was going to win matches against demonstrably better players. There are posters who seem to predict a Williams loss in EVERY match they play. (Which does allow them to say 'I told you so', when the rare loss happens.) That's part of the anti-Williams herd, and an awful lot of their words aren't based on hope, but hate. (there's that word)

Well, that was long and stupid.

The depth of dislike of Venus and Serena vastly preceded their dominance. Williams fans reactions in victory tend to reflect that. The dislike was there full force in 1997, 1998 and 1999. So it is NOT about being #1 and #2. If it was, it wouldn't have surfaced til 2000 or so. The situation has five plus years of history being it. Too much water under the bridge. It won't stop, even after they retire. (Look at some Seles fans rxn to Graf)

TeeRexx
Feb 17th, 2003, 01:30 PM
Is this an anti-WILLIAMS thing or just an anti-whoever-the-black-person-is-on-top thing?

leslie
Feb 17th, 2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by gogomaggie
I think most of the ppl who have said Kim would beat Venus said so based on hopes. They inside knew Kim had less than little chance to beat Venus, but still if they had actually said so, then that would've meant they'd given up on Kim altogether and that way they would've lost interest. I think it's pretty natural to hype up someone who has the best chace to beat the best. whether they should admit it or not after the usual outcome, ummmm I dont think that's necessarily necessary. I dont think those who said Kim would win said so with total conviction but rather hoped that would happen. I think you shouldnt have taken their words as they were.. you are lucky to be a williams fan cuz it gives so many opporunities to enjoy their triumphs. Unlike williams fans and fans of other strong players like Justine, Lindsay n Kim, I rarely have such a moment (no offence to Maggie). but the rarer it is, the bigger joy I can get when my favorite does something big like last year's Moscow. I'm not the kind of person who made a bold prediction except jokingly, but I dont see anything wrong with ppl overhyping their favorites if that's based on their hopes. that is rather natural and positive to me.

Very intelligent post.

Serendy Willick
Feb 17th, 2003, 02:15 PM
Oh friggin please..... Had Kim won this board wouldve covered with Venus sucks and Kim is the greatest thing since sliced bread threads. Venus won fair and square. Congrats Venus!!

Shuji Shuriken
Feb 17th, 2003, 02:30 PM
Fuck 'em down Queen Venus, fuck 'em down. I love you my Queen :worship: :worship: :hearts: :worship: :worship:.

BombsAway
Feb 17th, 2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by gogomaggie
but I dont see anything wrong with ppl overhyping their favorites if that's based on their hopes. that is rather natural and positive to me.

I don't either!

and since that works two ways.....your posts are MOOT!

Volcana
Feb 17th, 2003, 04:31 PM
TeeRexx - We need a few more Black #1's to answer that.

Rocketta
Feb 17th, 2003, 04:49 PM
Yeah and for the record, Venus always thanks the crowd for supporting her the entire week eventhough she clearly doesn't mean it. I mean just look at that tournament in California where the crowd was rude and hostile toward Venus. They acted like Jelena Dokic was a native daughter, one of their own. You know they cheared faults and jeered close line calls and were just down right hostile. What did Venus do after she wiped the floor with Dokic?? She thanked the crowd for *all* their support and you just knew she meant for all their "non" support.

I love Venus and Serena. Daddy has taught them well. :)

c2
Feb 17th, 2003, 04:50 PM
Not to distract from this worthy discussion but TELL ME MORE ABOUT THE DIAMONDS. How many, carats?? Value?? anyone?

Jakeev
Feb 17th, 2003, 04:55 PM
Not sure why people are harping on the Belgian crowd. In most countries, the people are partisan for their local or national hero.....some more vocal than others.

IT could have been any number of players NOT JUST VENUS and they probably would have rooted for Kim in that manner.

Get over it.

CJ07
Feb 17th, 2003, 07:07 PM
Go Venus!

Volcana
Feb 17th, 2003, 08:22 PM
Jakeev - Tennis has always been a pretty polite sport. People cheer for their favorites, but they used to rarely boo or whistle, and deliberately attempt to disrupt one of the players was unheard of.

'Partisan' is PRO-your fave. When a crowd turns AGAINST a player, and takes actions designed to actually hurt their chances of winning, that's not partisan, and it used to be not a part of tennis.

We still talk about RG 99 because of how the CROWD acted. I've seen players cross to the other side of the net before. I had never seen a crowd turn on a player like that before. I'd HEARD about it. Arthur Ashe got that treatment. But i hadn't seen it.

Tennis doen't need it's own version of soccer 'hooligans'. But we're heading down that road. That's not partisanship. That's not encouragement. That's trying to influence the outcome of the match by harming the performance of one of the players.

If you can't see that, then you can't. There are people who claim to think the RG 1999 and IW 2001 crowds were just being 'a little vocal'. I can't say you're good company, but at least you're not alone in denial.

I suppose if people yelled out when golfers were about to swing, that would be perfectly okay too. Except with the golfers of course.

Perhaps the crowd at the Tour Championships will return the favor. It certainly would be interesting to read what folks had to say then.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 17th, 2003, 08:24 PM
c2 - I've read that the racquet is worth 1 million. I"m not sure if that is American figures or Euro.

starr
Feb 17th, 2003, 08:31 PM
I've been in the crowd when Martina was booed everytime she questioned a line call or bounced her racket. It has happened over and over again. I know how you feel because it made me sad to see Martina get booed for such small things. And this has not been just one match but has happened everytime Martina played and not just one year either.


The IW crowd with Serena and Venus were really angry at what had happened two days before and were just waiting to take it out on the both of them. I thought both the French and the IW crowds were wrong for doing so. But if you had been in the IW crowd you would know that there were as many or more trying to stop the booing. I don't know about the French crowd, but I suppose there were only a minority of people booing there too.

All I am saying is that players get booed and not just Venus or Serena. I don't like it. I don't like it when my favorite player has gotten booed over and over again for nothing, so I understand how you feel.