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View Full Version : Is No.1 ranking Venus' goal?


GoGoMaggie
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:08 AM
I really doubt she wants to take over Serena as no.1. If she did, she should play more tournaments and shouldn't avoid to enter the same events her sister plays. I know it's difficult for them to play against each other but as long as they don't change the stance, I just find it difficult to see them seperate competitors, let alone the rivalry between them.
I personally wanna see them play more of the same events and face off against each other in non-slam events.

BasicTennis
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:21 AM
It's every tennis players goal to be number one.

It's just that Serena has a vise-like grip on the ranking at the moment. She's definetely playing in a different level than Venus & her other rivals.;)

GoGoMaggie
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:29 AM
But do you think any rivalry between the sisters is gonna ever build?

tennisIlove09
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:30 AM
It's tough to say. She has always maintained that the ranking HASN'T meant anything to her. It showed last year [as she had little effort in 4 matches against Serena]. I think this year, may be different. She has stated she will be #1 again, and she proved in Aussie she can beat Serena [I am a belief that Venus COULDN'T have beaten Serena in OZ. Why? She couldn't beat Serena, thus end her quest for history--consciously or subconsciously]

BasicTennis
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:34 AM
I disagree tennisIlove09, Venus achieved the no.1 ranking by playing successive tournaments last year.;)

gogomagie, the rivalry is ON no matter how one-sided it is becoming. But gradually their matches are improving and this is a great sign.:)

GoGoMaggie
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:37 AM
But I mean if Venus wants to close the gap between her n Serena, she should play more tournaments even taking the risk of playing her sister. I know Serena is in a dlfferent leauge by herself at the moment. but playing more tournament shouldnt hurt Venus' quest to the no.1 spot. Ummm..it seems more complicated than that..

tennisIlove09
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:39 AM
Basic: I don't think you want me to continue this conversation with you. Our views are too different.

GoGoMaggie
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by BasicTennis
I disagree tennisIlove09, Venus achieved the no.1 ranking by playing successive tournaments last year.;)

gogomagie, the rivalry is ON no matter how one-sided it is becoming. But gradually their matches are improving and this is a great sign.:)

But as long as they continue to avoid entering the same tourments except the grand slams, their rivalry wont go as far as it could. I still dont think Venus sees Serena as someone to beat n neither does Serena if not less.
I just hardly see them separate competitors... for it seems the willams sisters are on the top rather Serena, no.1 and Venus no.2

BasicTennis
Feb 16th, 2003, 09:47 AM
I believe even the past top two players didn't play many times against each other. In a year, how many times did Hingis & Davenport played against each other?

tennisIlove, my point is, Venus also wanted the the no.1 ranking (nobody dreamed of becoming the no.2 player in the world as Serena has stated:p), the reason why Venus played so many tournaments last year. She achieved the no.1 ranking even though she lost to Sandrine at the 2002 Dubai Open semifinals.

tennisIlove09
Feb 16th, 2003, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by BasicTennis
I believe even the past top two players didn't play many times against each other. In a year, how many times did Hingis & Davenport played against each other?

tennisIlove, my point is, Venus also wanted the the no.1 ranking (nobody dreamed of becoming the no.2 player in the world as Serena has stated:p), the reason why Venus played so many tournaments last year. She achieved the no.1 ranking even though she lost to Sandrine at the 2002 Dubai Open semifinals.

I think she wanted it this time last year...but it was a part of a bigger plan ;)

BasicTennis
Feb 16th, 2003, 10:21 AM
As a former no.1, of course Venus wants badly to get it back; the reason why she's still competing. Right now, she's Serena's nearest rival.;)

tennisIlove09
Feb 16th, 2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by BasicTennis
As a former no.1, of course Venus wants badly to get it back; the reason why she's still competing. Right now, she's Serena's nearest rival.;)

Yes, but if Venus *really* wanted the #1 ranking, the past year wouldn't have happened, IMO.

BasicTennis
Feb 16th, 2003, 10:54 AM
hmmm...now that Venus wanted it badly, I know she won't achieve it this year.;)

Serena's just getting better and better and better.:worship:

tennisIlove09
Feb 16th, 2003, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by tennisIlove09
Basic: I don't think you want me to continue this conversation with you. Our views are too different.

I think this applies again :)

BasicTennis
Feb 16th, 2003, 11:09 AM
LOL I'm not bothered, you'll be on my side after Serena completes her career Grandslam this year.;)

tennisfan1972
Feb 16th, 2003, 12:28 PM
I dont think venus is the type of player who focus on becoming number 1 so much as she used to when she was a little younger and hadnt tasted what it felt like. I think she would much rather win grand slams than sit atop the rankings. She feels that to be ranked number 1 in the world u must win grand slams. I dont think playing more or even playing serena is gonna help her get to number 1. Its winning slams thats going to do it. Hingis received so much flack for holding onto the number 1 ranking for years despite not having won a grand slam. I doubt other players want this kinda scrutiny.
I guess th ething with Venus is that she feels being number 1 is inevitable and solely dependent on her winning slams and becoming a better player. Serena is number 1 with only a few tournaments so its possibe to be number 1 without playing alot. Playing in the same tournaments will not beneft either sister. It will only help their opoposition to gain points. They have devised a very clever plan for staying atop the rankings. genius in fact, they maximize money, points, trophies etc.

King Lindsay
Feb 16th, 2003, 12:36 PM
Here's the real question. When the Williams sisters play, does the winner feel bad?

lol, no no, scratch that. This is the question. When the Williams sisters play, how many of you actually care who wins? I know all the williams fans will say they do, but what about everybody else?

CamilleVidann
Feb 16th, 2003, 03:09 PM
I'm of King Lindsay's opinion.

Venus Forever
Feb 16th, 2003, 03:42 PM
I think it's quite simple.

Venus would LOVE to have the #1 ranking, but she has to achieve it her own way. She wants to achieve it by playing her type of schedule, and she doesn't want to take it away from Serena. I believe that if Jen or Lindsay was there, Venus would definitely go after it.

Venus' main goals right now are the GS's and that's it.

GoGoMaggie
Feb 16th, 2003, 03:45 PM
But now she's withdrawn from Dubai with some lame excuse....
How many times does she have to make her usual last minute withdrawal before she stops doing it??

Volcana
Feb 16th, 2003, 03:48 PM
Venus played 2 Tier I tournaments last year. If she intends to be #1, she obviously plans to do it be winning multiple GS titles in a year. There's a sibling-type obstacle to such a plan.

As for withdrawing from Dubai, 'lame excuse' or no, as an American, I'm not so sure I'd be traveling to the Middle East right now.

Jomo Chulungee
Feb 16th, 2003, 03:51 PM
The real question is, does non Williams fans like you "King-L" realize how blessed you are to have the privillage to be witnessing the brillance of two legands in the making. Further, you should be thrilled to have "two finals" in the slams. Lets face it my friends we privillaged to be seeing, instead of reading about, two of the greatest players, as the change this sport that we love. And don't worry this revolution is not a bad thing. It is only adding to the pool of experiences/knowledge of how the game is/will be played --- forever!!!

harloo
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:40 PM
IMO, Serena was just better last year and she deserves the #1. It had nothing to do with Venus, and now that Venus has lost her slam titles she will change her game and find a way to beat Rena. All this other stuff is irrelevant IMO.

The similiar thing happened to Vee when she broke through and won her first slam against Lindsay, she became a different player. She went on to win 2 more opens and 1 more Wimby and numerous titles. She was unbeatable even with her serving flaws. IMO, Serena was not on her level at that point.

After years of drought Serena broke through against Capriati finally. No more loses to her. Then she wen't on to get to the US Open finals and still wasn't good enough to take down the Queen. But Rena went to other tournaments and got confidence during the clay court season. She wen't to the french open and finally beat Venus in a slam final, and she has not looked back. She became a better player and decided she wanted to be #1.

In those finals Serena has been able to expose Vee's weakness, and that's what gave her the wins. Before noone could do that, and the rest of the tour still can't. Now Vee knows what she needs to work on, and she want's to be #1 again.

This is great IMO, because the sisters will make each other become better. Venus has alot of pride and she will get the kinks out of her game and beat Rena in a final. She is almost their because she was so close at the AO. However, I say it will become a battle when Vee and Ree makes another slam final. Rena is a warrior and she is tough at the slams, and Vee will be determined to win it. Richard said they will be battling it out for #1, and I believe in the end he will be right.

starr
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:18 PM
To me, there's definitely a team Williams concept. Venus and Serena aren't going to play in the same tournament outside slams and Miami. They don't want to challenge each other in the smaller tournaments, and they have agreed to stay away from Indian Wells as a special favor to me.

They have evidently put some thought into their schedules and have decided this can work for them. In their minds, one will have to be number one and one will have to be number two. How that works out for them their business.

But I don't see Venus deciding to play more tournaments in order to compile points.

Rtael
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:20 PM
I guess I'm gonna ahve to kinda agree with the fact that Venus can't be too excited about regaining #1. Right now she has played 14 tournies(Serena too) the maximum that can be counted for a full year is 17 tournaments (if they play more then that, they keep the highest 17 scores for rankings) Venus right now is currently holding 8 titles to defend (she defended antwerp, so she has that'n again) so technically she coul play 3 more tournaments (that she didn't play in last year, while also playing one's she played last year) and do nothing but gain a lot of points, and if she played mroe Tier I's and won or did final/SF it'd replace some of the lower ranked tournaments she has done well in or won and her points would be a lot higher then they are right now (though admittedly grand slam points are the best by a long shot)

sorry that was kind of rambling and didn't make much sense, but basically Venus might not be able to win the #1 spot back too soon but if she was actually f***ing trying she could close that gap considerably =P

starr
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:24 PM
I think she would like to have the number one spot, but if she can't have it doing things her way, I think she is satisfied so long as Serena is the one holding the number one spot.

Isn't this what we are all saying each in our different ways?

tennisfan1972
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:35 PM
ALL venus needs to do to gain the number 1 spot is win slams, just as serena has done and became number 1 by a huge margin with only 12 or 13 tournaments, this is not rocket science just simple arithmetic. them playing separate tournaments and winning is only to their advantage as the other players will seldom have winners points. and since they arent beating each other they never have to defend points by beating the number 1 or number 2 player. it makes perfect mathematical sense. they are doing it just as it needs to be done to maximize points. the only way anybody will ever challenge them for the top 2 spots is if somebody other than them steps up and wins the slams, semi final appearances is just not enuff anymore. look at jen, she was number 3 going into oz and she lost and now she is barely top 10. slams have much more weight. experiment witha few scenarios and it should make more sense to u . they dont need to play more. what they do is play less and win more. and thats all that is needed. who else will even come close to 8 wins in a season? now dont get me wrong playing more will get them more points , but its not necessary so why do it, nobody can catch them unless they dont play well at the slams and win. perhaps this is what jennifer was referring to a while ago . i dunno.

if u still dont get it, take this for example,
SUPPOSE,
serena loses to venus in french open final 2003, serena loses about 500 points, venus gains about 500 points, so the gap reduces from about 2000 points to about 1000 points. 2 slam wins is all she needs. the other tournaments are irrelevant as long as no other players are challenging them for points at this point.

starr
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:43 PM
That's the way I see it too, Tennisfan.

joao
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:05 PM
Good explanation Tennisfan. Rankings are nothing but maths! If Venus wins 1 or 2 slams she'll be #1 again because Serena will be the one losing the titles (and the pts!).

Rtael
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:15 PM
Good explanation Tennisfan. Rankings are nothing but maths! If Venus wins 1 or 2 slams she'll be #1 again because Serena will be the one losing the titles (and the pts!).

But if Serena wins 4 Tier I's and 4 Tier II's this year, and makes it to the finals of this two slams, then who''l be #1?

check YOUR math, sweety ;)

starr
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:19 PM
So Rtael, does that mean you think Venus will have to enter the same tournaments as Serena in order to win.

Serena is going to play Miami, Rome, and what other Tier I tournaments? Is it also possible for Venus to win 4 Tier I's?

Venus will easily win four TierII's so that should put them even.

joao
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:23 PM
If you wanna go ahead with ifs Rtael ... we could be here for a long time! As Starr suggested, we all know Venus is the Queen of TiersII (she wins in average 5-6 per year). I'm sure she would win 1 or 2 Tiers I if she would play them!

Whatzup
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:26 PM
No I don't think so, because if she want to be the new nr #1 again, she has to play more tournaments. But this week she pulled out of Dubai. And she played just 2 tournaments this year and I think, the first one now will be Miami. So I don't think she focus herself on that #1!

starr
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:54 PM
Last year, Venus played only Moscow and Miami tier I's

This year she will play Miami, Berlin (she pulled out last year) and the Acura has been upgraded to a TierI, has it not?... she will play there, and Moscow. Of course, also the year end tournament. She could also choose to enter Zurich, but Serena might play there this year.


What is Serena playing? Miami, Rome and? Last year she played Berlin, but will she this year?

So each of them has a record of only playing 3 Tier I tournaments per year... If that.

Venus Forever
Feb 16th, 2003, 09:01 PM
Serena will most likely be playing: Miami, Charleston, Berlin, Rome, Canada, Zurich.

Venus will most likely be playing: Miami, Rome, and Moscow.

Big difference.

Starr: Venus pulled out of Rome, not Berlin, because on her wrist injury. I believe she entered Berlin, but pulled out months in advance because Serena wanted to play there.

starr
Feb 16th, 2003, 09:42 PM
It's hard to keep up with those withdrawals. :rolleyes:

So, do you think both will sign up for Berlin and Rome this year?

Is Charleston a Tier I?

And Venus is playing Acura, I'm sure... that's a Tier I.

Neither one played Zurich last year or the year before that... so I'm not counting on either playing Zurich.

Venus Forever
Feb 16th, 2003, 09:45 PM
Venus, I believe, will play Rome, not Berlin.

Charleston is a Tier 1.

Acura is NOT a Tier 1, it should be, but it's rather a SUPER TIER 2.

Serena was scheduled to play Zurich, but withdrew due to fatigue, I believe. I think she'll play it this year.

starr
Feb 16th, 2003, 09:46 PM
Refer to my post above. ;)

Infiniti2001
Feb 16th, 2003, 09:49 PM
No I don't think so, because if she want to be the new nr #1 again, she has to play more tournaments.


If this is the case , how do you explain the current top ten??

1 (1) WILLIAMS, SERENA
7273.00 2642.00 14
2 (2) WILLIAMS, VENUS
5089.00 1675.00 14
3 (3) CLIJSTERS, KIM
3763.00 1349.00 21
4 (4) HENIN-HARDENNE, JUSTINE
3350.00 1098.00 21
5 (5) HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA
2835.00 1008.00 24
6 (7) MAURESMO, AMELIE
2805.00 1005.00 15
7 (6) CAPRIATI, JENNIFER
2790.00 868.00 17
8 (8) DAVENPORT, LINDSAY
2534.00 777.00 12
9 (9) SELES, MONICA
2364.00 726.00 14
10 (10) DOKIC, JELENA
2353.00 746.00 29

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Feb 16th, 2003, 10:24 PM
Serena was actually #1 with 12 tournaments, right?

Anyways, I think Venus would like to get back to #1, but that's on the backburner. I think she really wants the slams more than anything.

1jackson2001
Feb 17th, 2003, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Serena was actually #1 with 12 tournaments, right?

Anyways, I think Venus would like to get back to #1, but that's on the backburner. I think she really wants the slams more than anything.

Yes that's exactly what I think too....win the slams and the #1 ranking will follow.