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View Full Version : If Kournikova were ugly, would she have won a tournament by now?


CoryAnnAvants#1
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:27 AM
My guess is yes. If she looked like Mauresmo (sorry Amelie...), she would have been practicing hard at a stage in her career when she really needed to. Instead she was practicing, but also attending awards shows, modeling, music videos etc. If none of those distractions were there based on her looks, she would have nothing but tennis, and would have full motivation to improve. Furthermore, nobody would really care about or talk about "the streak," so there would not be unnecessary pressure added.

What do you all think?

GBFH
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:30 AM
Good point Bradshaw...I also think Anna would have done better if she hadn't moved to the U.S. at nine years old. All of the hype and attention she got was enough to turn anyone's head.

GoGoMaggie
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:32 AM
I think it's time for her to retire

toreador
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:34 AM
i totally agree with bradshaw#1

GBFH
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:35 AM
Yeah, she can keep Hingis company ;)

Seriously...she just needs rest....well, maybe a shrink, too.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:41 AM
Gogo, I don't think it's time for her to retire. If she sucked she should do that. But she's not a bad player at all. It's just hard to be successful when you have 10 million unnecessary things on your plate as well as tennis. I think it's time for her to either make a commitment or not. If she is going to be content lingering in the 50s or 60s based an occasional win and tons of WC's, it's not worth her time or the general public's time. If she wants to fully commit, she can do some damage.

Berlin_Calling
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:44 AM
lol, i love this thread, its so funny :D. And Anna prolly wouldve won more than one cause there would be no attention on her :)

GBFH
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:47 AM
Most people concede she's a good player...but she could be better. It frustrates all of us when she freezes up during big points/matches, so I can't imagine how Anna must feel.

The commitment is there...but I think Anna believes the negative press now and does the only thing she's done well the past few years: tennis modeling.

Leena
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:06 AM
Yes, I do think Anna would have won a tournament without her looks... simply because she wouldn't have been receiving WC's pre-98 and only playing GS, Tier I and II's early in her career. Even if she does give full effort in the upper echilon tournies... she's far from being #1 in the world.

Chance
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:34 AM
Yeah I was thinking about this when I was reading Volcana's thread- I think she would have won. I remember when she had her serving problems in the Ausopen in 98- most of the guys were just looking at her body -now she's probably used to it but back then to have 1000 of guys looking at you T&A must have played on her mind
Also the media would probably not have been obsessed with her- -meaning less pressure would have been on her

Steam
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by Bradshaw#1
My guess is yes. If she looked like Mauresmo (sorry Amelie...), she would have been practicing hard at a stage in her career when she really needed to. Instead she was practicing, but also attending awards shows, modeling, music videos etc.

Ok, maybe first you should have defined the stage in her career that "she really need to practice hard". I would guess that you are referring to the start of her career. So, I ask you, what award shows did she attend at the start of her career? The only ones that I can recall are the lame WTA ones. By the same token, what music videos did she appear in during that time as well? Of course, you are referring to the past year. Hardly, the time when she would need it the most. And it is also besides the point, that Anna is known as one of the players who practices the most.

A combination of injuries and outside pressure seemed to have affected Anna's confidence and that is, in my opinion, what has kept her from winning a tournament.

So, you ask the title question all you want, but I feel that a better title and question would be "If Kournikova didn't injure her thumb at Eastbourne in 1998, would she have won a tournament by now?"

SerialKiller#69
Feb 16th, 2003, 12:16 PM
Probably yes and most likely, we wouldn't even care...

auntie janie
Feb 16th, 2003, 12:37 PM
Actually, Amelie has a beautiful face and body. My mother was watching tennis and asked me, "Who is that beautiful girl?" And it was Amelie! I looked at Amelie's appearance in a new light after that, and it is true. But since you never see her made up, you think she is hideous. Not everyone likes to walk around and pose with an inch of make-up plastered on their face. :rolleyes:

Linnie
Feb 16th, 2003, 12:40 PM
I don't think "beauty" has anything to do with winning titles.

And personally, I don't think Anna's all that beautiful.

Thank you, janie :)

SerialKiller#69
Feb 16th, 2003, 12:41 PM
and yes, Amelie is actually beautiful though muscular which we we normally don't associate with feminity...

Experimentee
Feb 16th, 2003, 12:52 PM
If Anna was ugly no one would even be asking this question. I think all the modelling could be part of it, but mostly i think she cant win because shes a headcase, like Dementieva.

Hulet
Feb 16th, 2003, 12:53 PM
I agree bradshaw. Like linnie, I don't think Anna is that beautiful. But, the perception is what matters. So, if Anna wasn't percieved to be beautiful by many, she would have realized that her only route to fame/successful life is only through her tennis talent. She would have worked hard to develop this talent better. There would have been some sort of desperation in her bid to win a title. But right now, it is not a big deal if she loses b/c there is always other opportunities open to her due to her looks.

I agree with Janie's mother, too. I think Amelie is beautiful - she has that unique look which distinguishes her from the regular "beauties".

btw, great thread.

auntie janie
Feb 16th, 2003, 12:56 PM
Of course, if she had the folks at FHM plastering make-up all over her and tucking her into cute and skimpy little ouftits, a few more people would recognize Amelie's beauty. But that's not her way. ;)

Dawn Marie
Feb 16th, 2003, 01:14 PM
Well said janie!

Is this supposed to be an excuse for Anna's downfall? Anna and her family chose this path.

~ The Leopard ~
Feb 16th, 2003, 01:41 PM
1. Amelie is not ugly.

2. Anna is beautiful.

3. I see nothing wrong with a beautiful young woman flaunting her beauty in a tasteful way, as Anna and various others do. Good for them.

3. Anna works damn hard. Her problem is mental, and has nothing to do with too much time spent on other activities or insufficient time training and practising. All players spend a lot of time doing things other than playing and practising tennis...Anna simply has the clout and physical appearance to generate more public awareness for what she does than most.

4. I agree that her high profile may add to the mental pressures that she faces, and that she currently seems unable to handle these. In that sense only, perhaps her beauty is now making some contribution to the problem. Really though, it's a combination of things - including her bad run with injuries - that have harmed her career, with the result that there is now a monkey on her back. She has lost confidence, especially in big tournaments or important matches. She is losing when she shouldn't, and losing worse than she should to top players, because she cares too much, not because she doesn't care.

5. A breakthrough in the sense of winning a tournament would turn her into a different player mentally, and we'd see much better results. I hope it happens.

auntie janie
Feb 16th, 2003, 02:07 PM
Good post, jouissant.

selesfan
Feb 16th, 2003, 03:11 PM
Actually, Amelie has a beautiful face and body. My mother was watching tennis and asked me, "Who is that beautiful girl?" And it was Amelie! I looked at Amelie's appearance in a new light after that, and it is true. But since you never see her made up, you think she is hideous. Not everyone likes to walk around and pose with an inch of make-up plastered on their face

Nice post Janie. When my sis and I saw Amelie on an outside court at the US Open she was surprised at how pretty she was. I would much rather have Amelie's body than Anna's.

Volcana
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:00 PM
Amelie NOT = 'ugly'

That said, interesting point. However, while she probably WOULD have won a tournament, she'd have a LOT less money.

tennisfan1972
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:06 PM
I sit realy anna's of court distractions that are to blame for her lack of sucess? I mean how much time does it really take to take a photo or to attend an Awards show? Why dont Venus and serena struggle with their games seeing as they have seemingly more offcourt distractions than anna has? maybe its not her dedication or distractios> exactly what it is im not sure, but what other things could we attribute this form to?

Hendouble
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:06 PM
Indeed, Mauresmo is certainly not ugly. She may have square features that uncannily resemble a dolphin's, but that odd combination of neat, precise mouth and small gleaming blue eyes along with muscular, tattooed shoulders makes her into a curious hybrid of masculine strength tempered by delicate femininity.

Bright Red
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:07 PM
ROTFLOL!

Brilliant thread in both its thought-provoking question and its humor!

I'm not sure she'd have won one by now (all things constant). IMO there are other players with more talent who still haven't won one. So, no-->even if she were ugly Kournikova still wouldn't have won a tournament.

LOL

Uxobi
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:08 PM
translation = Hendouble is an asshole

Hendouble
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:12 PM
translation = Uxobi is unable to appreciate the concept of someone complimenting a female player's physical appearance. Shame on him (her? No, probably not).

Uxobi
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:17 PM
No, you remind me of my ex---He was a real asshole who tried to impress with words rather than action......I'm not impressed.

Hendouble
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:21 PM
You make a good point, Uxobi, but since the message board format by its very nature means that posters can only impress with words, rather than action, I'm afraid that's all I have to offer at the moment. Besides, I doubt whether you'd particularly want any kind of action with me - that's been my experience so far, at least...

Uxobi
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:21 PM
OMG, is your first name Tr.....NEVER MIND! I won't even go there!

Hendouble
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:25 PM
"Tr..."? I can assure you, it is not; indeed, I hail from distant shores and have never had the pleasure of making your acquaintance until now, but people who call me "asshole" are always worth either a swift rebuttal or at least an attempt to try and convince them of the error of judgement they have committed in making so harsh an appraisal of my persona.

Sonja
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:45 PM
Amelie is NOT ugly and if anyone has actually stood face to face with her they'd see she's very feminine. She's got a beautiful smile and a wonderfuly personality.

I have no comment about Anna, as she doesn't interest me all that much.

However, I think the poster who started this thread could have asked the question without inserting any player's name in the "ugly" category, and should hope that not all people judge him/her by the same manner he/she has just judged another in.

Leena
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:16 PM
All people judge each other on looks... such is life.

gentenaire
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:35 PM
Here's what Lei Clijsters, father of Kim had to say in an interview. They're talking about Lei's rather tough attitude during negotiations, why they choose FILA instead of Nike, etc.

"If they expect Kim to be available for promotional works for 10 days, I say it's impossible, three days is the maximum. Last week, I got a phone call from a Dutch chewing gum company, they wanted to pay Kim 4.5 million for a commercial but Kim would have to go to Spain for two days. 'That's not possible', I said. They didn't understand."

Interviewer: "For how long can you keep up such an attitude?"

Lei: "I'm first and most important of all Kim and Elke's father. All our decisions are based on them, not money as if often the case in top sport. Actually, we learned the most from the Anna Kournikova story. Give that girl the same entourage Kim gets, and she's in the top 5 in no time. Her management has signed so many contracts in the past few years that she's never left alone, not for a second. She finishes a match and there's a car ready to take her to her next 'acte de présence'. Of course that makes one unhappy. You may earn hundreds of millions, if you're not happy, it's no good. No, when I see Kournikova, I don't care that a lot of people think I'm a bastard."

CoryAnnAvants#1
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:46 PM
Sonja, maybe I shouldn't use an example like Amelie. If that upset you I'm sorry. However, although Amelie has a pretty smile/eyes, she's a bit masculine looking. No teenagers look at Amelie and say "wow she's hot" the way they do w/Anna.

And people do judge me on looks, Sonja. People probably judge you to. I'm not Andy Roddick hot, but I'm capable of getting bfs. Some people find me attractive, some do not. Such is life. Ditto w/Amelie, ditto w/Anna.

Volcana
Feb 16th, 2003, 07:55 PM
No teenagers look at Amelie and say "wow she's hot" the way they do w/Anna.

Bradshaw#1 - I think you're being a bit provincial, at best. People's tastes differ. The two players I always went 'WOW' at were Serena and Amelie. (And I'm a Venus fan. But we're talking 'hot', not tennis.)

Think about it. You've seen other examples. Apparently, to some people, Hantuchova's a sex symbol. I've seen teenaged boys with more curves than Dani, but it's all a matter of taste. To each their own and thank god for that!

Each of us should be thankful everyone doesn't share our taste. The competition would be brutal.:)

Meesh
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:05 PM
Thanks for that post Beggin' Beguine , Lei Clijsters interview is interesting... 2 days here , 2 days there adds up. Smart move to say NO!

BombsAway
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:06 PM
Amelie is too butch, masculinzed - therefore no corporate sponsors.

Anna possess true sex appeal - head to toe. She should work it. I would.

Warrior
Feb 16th, 2003, 08:11 PM
Maybe if she wouldn't have so many injuries, she would have won a title by now. How about that!

Halardfan
Feb 17th, 2003, 09:48 AM
With looks it really is a personal thing...I doubt there is ONE person on the planet who EVERYONE would agree is pretty or good looking...

Basically it comes down to a question of taste and the simple fact that I know best. ;)