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View Full Version : Venus Williams vs. Kim Clijsters: Match break-down


o0O0o
Feb 14th, 2003, 01:34 AM
OK, you're right. Fine, you can say it. "THIS IS TOO EARLY!" Yes, there are still six girls left in the draw that can beat one or both of these players.

But let's throw dreams and aspirations named Pisnik out the window, and get realistic: Venus and Kim will be playing in the final of the Diamond Proximus games.

It's an anticipated match-up. Venus has skunked Kim twice. Kim was in the process of doing the same to Venus once. Kim has won one close battle against Venus. Venus has won one close battle against Kim.

Kim has been the better player since after the US Open. Venus, however, remains the #2 ranked player in the world.

What do they have in their games that will make this an interesting match-up?

SERVES

Venus has the second-best serve on tour, and always serves as well as anyone when she plays a top-player. It is rarely her weakness. Kim has an excellent serve: good percentages, nice pace, nice spin, and a good second serve with few double faults. But even though Kim's serve is one of the best overall on tour, there is a difference between solid and explosive.

Winner: Venus

RETURNS

Kim's return game is impeccable. She breaks the Williams sisters numerous times every time they play. She takes the ball early and attacks the second serve. Venus also has a very aggressive return, but it isn't as dangerous as it used to be. Giving a second serve to Venus used to be death, but no more.

Winner: Kim

FOREHAND

Kim's forehand is deadly. She unleashes and explodes. However, much like Venus, when the match gets tight, so does her forehand. But when Venus and Kim are both having good forehand days, Kim's is better.

Winner: Kim

BACKHAND

Venus' backhand remains solidly consistent and amazingly powerful. Kim's backhand is consistent and powerful and very underrated. Both players can redirect the ball, and neither have a weak backhand. But given a short ball, I'll take ol' faithful.

Winner: Venus

SPEED

Both are very fast. Unbelievably fast. Venus has better reach. Kim has the time-saving slide. I don't know. You make the call.

Winner: tied

FINESSE

Ha.

Winner: Kim

MENTAL TOUGHNESS

Kim is mentally tough, but that loss to Serena...

Winner: Venus

My prediction? Kim in two. Her newfound consistence is the key.

Burberry
Feb 14th, 2003, 01:37 AM
I'll go with u!! It's going to be the final b/w these two.... ;)

Jericho
Feb 14th, 2003, 01:42 AM
venus no doubt...

vs1
Feb 14th, 2003, 01:46 AM
Venus is two. She is focused on the diamonds and I don't think anyone is going to get in her way.

But we'll see. Both girls need to make it to the finals first...

Hardiansf
Feb 14th, 2003, 01:58 AM
I'll go with u... :p
Venus in thought 2 sets! :bounce:

Freewoman33
Feb 14th, 2003, 02:33 AM
What else is new! LMAO

lizchris
Feb 14th, 2003, 02:38 AM
Originally posted by o0O0o
OK, you're right. Fine, you can say it. "THIS IS TOO EARLY!" Yes, there are still six girls left in the draw that can beat one or both of these players.

But let's throw dreams and aspirations named Pisnik out the window, and get realistic: Venus and Kim will be playing in the final of the Diamond Proximus games.

It's an anticipated match-up. Venus has skunked Kim twice. Kim was in the process of doing the same to Venus once. Kim has won one close battle against Venus. Venus has won one close battle against Kim.

Kim has been the better player since after the US Open. Venus, however, remains the #2 ranked player in the world.

What do they have in their games that will make this an interesting match-up?

SERVES

Venus has the second-best serve on tour, and always serves as well as anyone when she plays a top-player. It is rarely her weakness. Kim has an excellent serve: good percentages, nice pace, nice spin, and a good second serve with few double faults. But even though Kim's serve is one of the best overall on tour, there is a difference between solid and explosive.

Winner: Venus

RETURNS

Kim's return game is impeccable. She breaks the Williams sisters numerous times every time they play. She takes the ball early and attacks the second serve. Venus also has a very aggressive return, but it isn't as dangerous as it used to be. Giving a second serve to Venus used to be death, but no more.

Winner: Kim

FOREHAND

Kim's forehand is deadly. She unleashes and explodes. However, much like Venus, when the match gets tight, so does her forehand. But when Venus and Kim are both having good forehand days, Kim's is better.

Winner: Kim

BACKHAND

Venus' backhand remains solidly consistent and amazingly powerful. Kim's backhand is consistent and powerful and very underrated. Both players can redirect the ball, and neither have a weak backhand. But given a short ball, I'll take ol' faithful.

Winner: Venus

SPEED

Both are very fast. Unbelievably fast. Venus has better reach. Kim has the time-saving slide. I don't know. You make the call.

Winner: tied

FINESSE

Ha.

Winner: Kim

MENTAL TOUGHNESS

Kim is mentally tough, but that loss to Serena...

Winner: Venus

My prediction? Kim in two. Her newfound consistence is the key.

Kim is consistent; a consistent loser to the Willaims sisters. Depending on her service game, Venus will win in either two or three sets. I still can't believe that Kim lost to Serena at the AO. BTW, Venus played a better second round match than Kim did.

tennisIlove09
Feb 14th, 2003, 02:39 AM
My breakdown:

Serve:
Venus

Return:
Venus

Forehand:
Tied

Backhand:
Venus

Speed:
Kim maybe a little faster, but who needs speed, when you have Venus' reach?

Finesse:
Venus! Her net play is one of the best in the game!

Mental Toughness:
Venus. If Kim gets close to winning the match, will thoughts of the Aussie enter her mind?

Power:
Venus

Over all, its Venus' match to lose. If Vee's on, she will win in 2; if she's off it will be a 3 setter.

joao
Feb 14th, 2003, 03:15 AM
Without any doubt ... Venus in straight sets (LA doesn't count, in Hamburg Kim won but it was very tight and on clay, "worst" surface for Venus).

Venus Forever
Feb 14th, 2003, 03:35 AM
Originally posted by tennisIlove09
My breakdown:

Serve:
Venus

Return:
Venus

Forehand:
Tied

Backhand:
Venus

Speed:
Kim maybe a little faster, but who needs speed, when you have Venus' reach?

Finesse:
Venus! Her net play is one of the best in the game!

Mental Toughness:
Venus. If Kim gets close to winning the match, will thoughts of the Aussie enter her mind?

Power:
Venus

Over all, its Venus' match to lose. If Vee's on, she will win in 2; if she's off it will be a 3 setter.

Agree, except with forehand. I do think Kim has the more consistent and better forehand of the two. However, Venus' forehand is great WHEN it is on.

Finesse: Venus is definitely adding this in to her game by coming into net with tough volleys and so.

Chance
Feb 14th, 2003, 08:34 AM
considering it's ooooo - that was pretty objective for him

but I still think it's TOOOOOOO EARLY

with that said GOOOOOO Venus :D

per4ever
Feb 14th, 2003, 08:42 AM
Justine will kick asses in semi :cool:

Experimentee
Feb 14th, 2003, 12:59 PM
Kim has no more finesse than Venus does and I would say Venus is faster because she runs down more of Serenas shots than Kim does. I would give the edge to Venus in two tight sets, or maybe three.

Tennisfan-Mtl
Feb 14th, 2003, 01:00 PM
Kim will win. Period.

Chance
Feb 14th, 2003, 01:18 PM
first Kim has to get through Patty and Justine.

if this final does eventuate - it looks like it's going to be pretty exciting

SerenaSlam
Feb 14th, 2003, 05:43 PM
the final to me doesn't look exciting to me at all, b/c it is clearly all in the hands of venus williams, if you look at the last 2 matches they played (fuck the championships, it needs to be thrown out the window, venus should've just w/ drawn, there really was no match here), anyway the matches were all in the hands of venus, take a look:

Venus vs. Clijsters Standford California

Venus def. Clijsters 6-3 6-3- here Venus was on her game, she wan't off, and she played consistent tennis, like she did at the Australian Open before she ran into lil Sis!

Venus vs. Clijsters Sandiego California

Venus def. Clijsters 6-3 5-7 6-4- I believe in this match venus had a chance to serve out the second set and the match, and it would've been similar to Standford, but Venus reverted back to th 99' player and started to make a lot of errors and as kim has consistenlty stated "let her back into the match" Therefore it got close.

Now you see, if Venus is on her game, which she seems to have been Clijsters is out the door. It is the truth, and I know all you kim fans want so badly to be able to continue to run your mouth about kim's hype, but really that is all it is, She hasn't faced venus on her game since Standford. And she still is struggling against Venus when venus is off her game and giving her all kinds of points. The last time she played Serena "on her game a little" was at the Hopman cup, where serena was able to "win a decent, but not spectacurla" match win. The only threat kim is going to bring to Venus and Serena is, low errors. Kim can't hit that many winners against them, and if Venus and Kim's errors both are down, Venus is the winner, b/c its obvious Venus is the one that will be hitting the winners. Another thing, i see no difference in the 2001 Kim Clijsters, where Venus whipped her and in the 2002-03 clijsters. That is my personal opinion there.

Venus in 2 sets if she is on her game
Venus in 2 sets if she is a little off her game
Venus in 3 sets if she is completely off
Kim in 3 sets if venus is off and injured!

LeonHart
Feb 14th, 2003, 05:48 PM
Kim has improved very much since last year, so i don't knoe if your "info" would be legitimate.

Hawk
Feb 14th, 2003, 05:50 PM
So far everyone has been pretty objective about the situation. I myself have no idea what's going to happen, but I hope Kim wins :D (assuming she makes the finals)

SerenaSlam don't you think saying the only possible way for Kim to win this match is if Venus is off her game and hurt, just a little disrespectful of Kim's game :confused: I mean i'm not going to argue that Kim will blow Venus away or that Kim's way better than Venus..but she is the #3 player in the world. I think her chances are slightly better than that.

LeonHart
Feb 14th, 2003, 05:53 PM
Hawk, if you Search SerenaSlam, all her posts are about WILLIAMS domination, and how they're gonna kick everyone's asses, so what did you expect. Of course he's not gonna respect anyone's games but Serena/Venus...he jus hopped onto the bandwagon and roots for the winner. When Serena/Venus begins to decline, he'll be *Poof!* :)

Serendy Willick
Feb 14th, 2003, 05:54 PM
Both are certainly gonna be very pumped (BTW, Kim plays Patty Schnyder, who is certainly nobodies slouch). Kims gonna have the Hometown crowd behind and is gonna be very pumped. Vee just has to take a look at the racket and that will certainly pump her up also. GO VEE.

BombsAway
Feb 14th, 2003, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by o0O0o
Venus and Kim will be playing in the final of the Diamond Proximus games.

I know Venus will be playing in the finals.....Kim is not a guarantee...

Besides, Venus is going to SERVE notice in the finals.

TSequoia01
Feb 14th, 2003, 06:40 PM
SERVES

Venus - very little argument here

RETURNS

They both have great returns - Draw

FOREHAND

Kim gets the nod here, her forehand is the more consistent.

BACKHAND

Venus's backhand is one of the best in History.

SPEED

This is misleading. The title should have been court coverage. No one covers a court as well as Venus...no one.

FINESSE

This will come down to Venus' net game versus Kim's lobs and drop shots. I will give a slight edge to Kim.

MENTAL TOUGHNESS

Venus will have the edge in mental toughness, tactics, and flexibility.

Venus will defeat Kim but it may go 3 sets. Kim plays a defensive game so it will depend on whether Venus is making her shots or not. I also see Venus at net to finish points, so much will depend on how Kim passes and lobs.









:cool:

supremeross
Feb 14th, 2003, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by per4ever
Justine will kick asses in semi :cool:



Kim won't make it past Justine and Justine won't make it past Venus. Thus, Venus is your winner!!!!!!

supremeross
Feb 14th, 2003, 07:51 PM
On a side note I can't wait to see what the fallout will be from Kim choking in her semifinal match against Serena, will she be match tough or start to consistently choke in tight matches. Will she develop a mental block like others have (Davenport, Capriati, Hingis) when it comes to competing against a Williams sister.

tennisIlove09
Feb 14th, 2003, 08:01 PM
The Acura Quarter, where Venus def. Kim 63 57 64 was one of the great matches of last year. Kim would have won against ANYONE that day, other then Venus/Serena. She was playing SO well.

Venus really served notice, on match point she hit an ace...the hardest hit serve of the week. It was about 123 mph.

tennisfan1972
Feb 14th, 2003, 08:21 PM
you bring up a very, very interesting point supremeross. Venus seems to be playing splendid tennis and for soem reason seems to do very well at bouncing back from losses. it will be interesting to see where kim is at this point in her career. I think a Venus/ Kim match would be a great one. i think venus will beat Justine in two sets just liek some of their more recent matches. But depending on how things go, this could be a great final with lots of fireworks. i think the mental edge will go to venus but kim will definately have a chance to show what she is made of. venus and serena have similarities but i think serena runs her opponents around alot more , whereas Venus tries to get them grooved intoa rally so she can open up a down the line shot and catch them off guard. but i think somehow venus will be ready. of course if Justine if rested , she could provide a great final as well. i like how she matches up against venus. a tight 2 setter would be cool though

persond
Feb 14th, 2003, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by LeonHart
Kim has improved very much since last year, so i don't knoe if your "info" would be legitimate.


The "infor" may not be legitimate??? Or is it that, the "info" might not "affect" the outcome now???? The difference being, is that the "info" stands as it is, however, it doesn't neccesarily mean the outcome will be the same.!!! (See the difference???)

All that being said, may the best player "on the day" win!!! How about that for being fair????:hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

GrahamD
Feb 14th, 2003, 08:40 PM
The only match these two will be playing against each other will be the play-off for third place:devil:
while Dani triumphs over Justine in the final:bounce:

I can't believe how anyone can write something so stupid as to predict how the final is going to pan out before the semis have been played. Read it and weep, losers!:fiery:

1jackson2001
Feb 14th, 2003, 10:51 PM
SerenaSlam (your name says it all)...I do like Venus a lot...in fact she's my fave player. Venus is the better player, but the way you're writing off Kim is disrespectful imo. The only way Kim is gonna win is for Venus to be completely off and injured...pfff w/e.

IMO:

Venus in 2 sets if she is on.
Venus in 2 tight sets possibly or maybe 3 if it is a little off.
Venus/Kim in 3 sets if Venus' game is off quite a bit.
Kim in 2 or 3 sets if Venus is way off.
Kim in 2 easy sets if Venus is really injured and off.

This is assuming Kim is on or playing near that of course. :)

So you see it's really still Venus' match to win or lose. ;)

If Venus brings her A-game then she will walk away the winner.

SerenaSlam
Feb 15th, 2003, 12:29 AM
the last time they played its was 6-4, in the third, and kim played the match of her life here. venus wasn't so great, and she still couldn't beat her, its a rare thing that a player keeps playing "the match of her life" again. i don't think kim will be able to, and venus tends to learn from all her mistakes. venus lost to kim at hamburg, then they met up in that final for the Bank of the West, and venus trounced her 3-3! venus knows what is going to have to happen, and she is going to show us! kim is going down in to sets, and i am bringing back my thread once venus wins!

o0O0o
Feb 15th, 2003, 02:43 AM
Oh the nonsense I read on this board. :rolleyes:

Kim did not play anything near the match of her life against Venus in Stanford. To say Venus' wins over Kim in the summer have a large outcome on their next match is false. Kim's biggest career slump was from the French Open to the US Open of last year. She is a totally different player, who plays much more consistent tennis.

And to whoever said she's a defensive player: what? She serves 110+, and hits her ground strokes as paceful as anyone but heavier.

Anyway, I'm hoping for a good match, with Kim being the winner, but there is no need for some of the posters to get so ridiculously insulting in this thread.

Cybelle Darkholme
Feb 15th, 2003, 03:06 PM
And to whoever said she's a defensive player: what? She serves 110+, and hits her ground strokes as paceful as anyone but heavier.

So when she doesn't go for winners but strives to keep the ball in play waiting for an error, thats not defensive?

I guess some people are so biased when they jump on the latest bandwagon of the player to challenge the sisters.

Anyway I too am hoping for a good match, with Venus being the winner. GO VENUS!

I

power26
Feb 15th, 2003, 03:24 PM
venus in easy two sets.......6-2, 6-1!

Experimentee
Feb 15th, 2003, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by o0O0o

...there is no need for some of the posters to get so ridiculously insulting in this thread.

Great, now follow that advice next time you post something on the Williams sisters in GM.

lizchris
Feb 15th, 2003, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Experimentee
Great, now follow that advice next time you post something on the Williams sisters in GM.

Good point.

I noticed that his bashing of the Williams sisters stoped when Serena came back and beat Kim in the AO semifinal after Kim had TWO MATCH POINTS against Serena.

Cybelle Darkholme
Feb 15th, 2003, 04:09 PM
But Liz, Kim is such an aggressive player, how in the world did she lose two match points and being up 5 1? I mean wouldnt an amazing aggressive player like kim close that out? Hmmmm?

Hawk
Feb 15th, 2003, 09:59 PM
What happened to this thread!? It was going all nice..:sad:

LeonHart
Feb 16th, 2003, 04:48 AM
yeah...heh

Uxobi
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:02 PM
LOL @ 5-o! Venus proved you wrong.....AGAIN!

Freewoman33
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:30 PM
Tennis-Venus enjoys easy win over Clijsters in Antwerp final


ANTWERP, Belgium, Feb 16 (Reuters)

The variety in Williams' game -- as she lobbed, smashed and came to the net to break up the base-line rallies -- eventually ground down her opponent and led to a comfortable victory.


Variety? What variety?

BombsAway
Feb 16th, 2003, 05:39 PM
aaaaahhhh, excuse me, but your analogies were all wrong. I believe you knew Venus was going to win.....you just wanted to draw attention to yourself.

Now your opinions are deminished.

Infiniti2001
Feb 16th, 2003, 06:25 PM
Never bet against Venus Williams, well except when she's playing her pesky lil sis :P

Cybelle Darkholme
Feb 16th, 2003, 07:10 PM
The variety in Williams's game -- as she lobbed, smashed and came to the net to break up the base-line rallies -- eventually ground down her opponent and led to a comfortable victory.

"Every other time I've played her, she starts to make mistakes. But this time she didn't," said Clijsters.


"The percentage of first serves can make a lot of difference. She definitely didn't go for it as much and tried to keep her errors under control."

Williams said she had decided to turn over a new leaf.

"I have to change. New century, new millennium, Venus has to stop making mistakes," she said.


I just love it when the creator of a thread runs and hides when their predicition as well as their two bit analysis fails to come true.

Uxobi
Feb 16th, 2003, 07:52 PM
Hello!!!! It happens all the time. Venus shuts up a hater!!!

Cybelle Darkholme
Mar 3rd, 2003, 01:32 AM
Can we now add Ai sugiyama as an honoray williams sister? She shuts 'em down!