PDA

View Full Version : Magnus Norman: Hingis Could Still Beat the Sisters!


tennisIlove09
Feb 13th, 2003, 07:59 AM
FROM THE SIEBEL OPEN IN SAN JOSE, CALIF -- Martina Hingis’ former boyfriend, '00 Roland Garros finalist Magnus Norman, says that should the former Swiss No. 1 decide to come back, she could still challenge the Williamses for the top.

"I definitely think she can beat the Williams sisters if she works at it physically," said Norman. "I think the Williamses are mostly winning matches because they are stronger than they other girls and if she can work at that, she can beat them."


***

I don't have the full article :sad:

schris
Feb 13th, 2003, 08:01 AM
in your dreams Magnus ;)

but I can understand him, he still loves her ;)

Dawn Marie
Feb 13th, 2003, 08:01 AM
ROLLING ON THE FLOOR AND LAUGHING MY ASS OFF!

irma
Feb 13th, 2003, 08:09 AM
cappy doesn't look less stronger as serena (and especially venus)

what's her record against them lately? ;)

Chance
Feb 13th, 2003, 08:14 AM
Norman- thanks for the laughs.

SM
Feb 13th, 2003, 08:35 AM
why is it funny? hingis has a decent record against them esp until about a year or two ago, before she had injuries and stuff..

hingis can beat them again but can she go through the hard yards to get her game back to that old level and BEYOND (as magnus says she must do?)...obviously not :(

smygelfh
Feb 13th, 2003, 08:40 AM
He's got it half right at least. Venus doesn't look that strong ;)

The sisters, and other power players, have the advantage of hitting the ball harder than the others, but it'd be pretty useless if they weren't skilled enough to hit inside the lines. Strength and speed together makes defence easier, however if you constantly guess wrong where the opponent will hit, speed won't save you.

How much tactics influence the success of a 'power player' can be endlessly debated of course.

But, it's easy to think it's all about power when Serena hits winners from behind the baseline while hitting just a meter or two from where the opponent were standing...

Not saying it is all about power, I'm just saying it's easy to perceive it that way.

Chance
Feb 13th, 2003, 09:02 AM
what I found funny was that he claimed Serena and Venus are winning most of their mathces because they are stronger-
like Lindsay, Kim,Jen Cap,Bovina, Amelie etc are weak little players.


In the early days people said they weren't smart enough, now they are too strong :rolleyes: :mad:

Personally I think Martina can compete with Serena & Venus(and who knows manybe even win) IF she works on her game and her ankle is fully recovered. IMHO I think Martina is worried about other players. When Hingis withdrew from the Swiss tournament she had lost to Dementieva in Germany and Nadia in Russia.

For Martina to be able compete with the top players she needs to get through the lower ranked player first- unfortunately Martina isn't mentally nor phsically(because of her ankle injury NOT because of her size) up for the task.

vs1
Feb 13th, 2003, 09:15 AM
I totally agree. Yes, they are strong but that's not all. There are many "strong" players who aren't ranked in the top 10. Stevenson, Tulyaganova...just to name a couple. It takes a lot more than just strength. It takes mental discipline and consistency. You can't win one day and bomb out the next. Hell, Magnus should know!!

Watching the Serena-Amelie final in Paris last week...you can see that it's a lot more than just power. It's placement, angles, moving your opponent around, and tricking them.

Sure, I think that Martina would be a contender if she came back to the game and was at the level she was a couple of years ago. But it's not all about power, baby!

Dawn Marie
Feb 13th, 2003, 09:47 AM
Clearly Magnus doesn't watch much ladies tennis. For one he thinks V@S are all about power and every single player can tell you that it ain't so. Hingis included. Second of all, it is not all about Martina getting physically stronger. It's about MENTALITY in both cases and V@S are high on confidence and Hingis is low on confidence.

p.s. Hingis it seems **laid** the smack down on his azz, and now his head is messed up. LOL

Miss Hingis be toying with folks she probably had him all over the place like a King trapped between two Rooks.:) She is quite the tactition isn't she?:)

deftman
Feb 13th, 2003, 10:07 AM
Actually he's quite right. As far as I know , Hingis does have the skills required to beat the Williams. But she's not powerful enough to reach their super paced shots. And he's also right in the statement

I think the Williamses are mostly winning matches because they are stronger than they other girls

Ofcorse pure power alone does not win you matches. But the balance and co-ordination that the Williams possess , is possessed by almost everyone in the top 20. It is undoubteldy the pace with which they hit their shots that gives them edge. If you dont believe me , you can ask any tennis expert or Mr. Richard Williams himself ,who designed this novel idea( and I dont mean this in the negative sense at all!)

But I think what Magnus Norman has not taken into account is that Hingis is still a small-framed girl , and can never generate the same power as that of the Williams. Sure if she will be physically upto it ,she would be able to fend of threats from Dementieva ,Myskina etc. as someone above stated ,but challenging the Williams on a regular basis ,is not really possible. When the Williams are on and not making errors , it is not possible for a girl of the size Hingis to beat them. Hence she may beat them occasionally ,but she can never get to the No.1 spot again. I am glad that she realised this and retired.
Before people bash Magnus Norman, you should realise that there's quite some truth in what he said. He didnt say that the Williams were unskilled ,but it was the power tht gave them the edge , which is true!

ayanate
Feb 13th, 2003, 10:19 AM
I don't understand this comment coming from someone who should know better, surely the objective of a tennis player is to hit winners, no?. The fact is, the sisters level of play is far higher than anything Martina Hingis ever attained, maybe Magnus wants the girls to be tested for strength(stronger players must join the ATP).

Dawn Marie
Feb 13th, 2003, 10:23 AM
V@S are not winning matches because they are Physically stronger. That is not the main reason. V@S were strong in 1998 and they didn't win slams?

Kim,Jenn,Lindsay,Lina,Mirjana,Pierce,Seles,Momo,Bo vina,Vera, Vera,Elena. ALL HIT THE BALL HARD, ALL ARE STRONG LADIES AND V@S are not STRONGER than them as far as hitting the ball.

People should give the credit where it is due. V@S have speed and placement and controlled aggression. Great defensive games. Instead of stating they are great thinking tennis *players* people have to say it is their power that wins it. NOT!

TeeRexx
Feb 13th, 2003, 10:31 AM
According to that genius, Magnus, then weightlifters and football players will dominate the ATP.

According to Norman, it must take no skill to keepa tennis ball in play or to hit various shots at will.

Now we know why he is not the #1 palyer on the ATP tour.

deftman
Feb 13th, 2003, 10:40 AM
They didnt win slams in 1998 , because they were starkly inconsistent ,and made so , many more errors.Besides it's true that they werent as technically sharp. And surely you have to be kidding when you say that Kim , Elena and Vera are power players on the same standrd as that of the Williams.They are Power Players no doubt ,and could beat relatively defensive players like Hingis ,but not the Williams on a regular basis! Prrof of this is the AO semifinal this year. Once Serena stopped making the errors , Kim was quite helpless! She just couldnt match the pace of Serena's shots ,and it was demolition from there onwards. She just could not reach the higly paced shots of Serena , and Serena was hitting winner after winner.Sure Kim did make errors out of frustration towards the end, but it was all on Serena's racquet to turn the match around. Stevenson and Co. are power players , but clearly not on the same power level as that of the Williams!Besides they do not possess the same skill as that of the top 15 players.
Among the top 10 , what gives the Williams the edge is their power, and I'm not just blabbering this stuff in sleep now , please ask any tennis expert if you want.

Anyways , I am not participating in this coversation anymore ,as I have to sleep. Besides these GM conversations involve a lot of bad language and are rarely based on logic. You guys enjoy yourselves :D

ayanate
Feb 13th, 2003, 11:05 AM
Why is it so difficult for some people to accept that they are the most skillful players and that's why they are on top. What does Andre Agassi do technically that Serena cannot do?, yet he is considered very skilful.

Second point, if strength is the difference why can't the others get stronger?, or don't they like winning slams?

Add to the fact that I don't think Venus is stronger than Kim, Jennifer, Monica or Lindsay on the contrary she is quite fragile but everyone wants to lump the sisters together any chance they get.

Mateo Mathieu
Feb 13th, 2003, 11:39 AM
Magnus! :rolleyes: Do you aware that Martina losing her power against a Top 20 players now? If no, then watch a WTA matches and you will understand! :p

Ryan
Feb 13th, 2003, 11:46 AM
A nice positive attitude from Mangus, but he's wrong. ;)



I think if Hingis worked on her game she COULD challenge the sisters, he's right there. But Venus and Serena have soooo much more then power it's not funny. They do overpower their lower ranked opponents, but power alone wont win you matches against Capriati and Clijsters etc.

maccardel
Feb 13th, 2003, 12:00 PM
He's an ass..........

Volcana
Feb 13th, 2003, 12:06 PM
Maybe she should have stuck with the guy.

Gowza
Feb 13th, 2003, 12:15 PM
as much as i want hingis to compete with the sisters power is the problem. she isn't quite fast enough to run down their shots, her serve has to get at least back to what it was and so does her backhand. with that she also needs to increase her strength and power of shot but their is only a certain amount she can improve without losing out in other areas because she won't have as much time to work on them because for hingis to get the power the sisters do it would take a whole lot of weight training, not a little but a huge amount.

Nimi
Feb 13th, 2003, 12:15 PM
Sure, & Magnus can beat Safin, Agassi & Hewitt! LMAO! :D

TS
Feb 13th, 2003, 12:23 PM
Nice to see the usual suspects flock in here like fly on shit :)

Mateo Mathieu
Feb 13th, 2003, 12:27 PM
Magnus did beat Marat and Lleyton :rolleyes:

Nimi
Feb 13th, 2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by AlexSydney
Magnus did beat Marat and Lleyton :rolleyes:

& Martina did beat both Venus & Serena A LONG TIME AGO.

What's your point?

nasty nick#2
Feb 13th, 2003, 12:32 PM
Any player that can become psysically stronger can beat "the sisters" they are all about strenght anyway...

Nimi
Feb 13th, 2003, 12:34 PM
Nick i thought you know better.

irma
Feb 13th, 2003, 12:36 PM
isn't it weird that the stronger then venus looking lindsay (and taller) hardly could beat venus already long before she got injured?

according to some people Lindsay should beat Venus 6:0 6:0

Experimentee
Feb 13th, 2003, 12:38 PM
Seles and Pierce are two players who hit the ball as hard if not harder than Serena, but they arent winning slams lately. Its not all about power at all. This debate has been going on for so long but most people know that it doesnt just take power to win in tennis. Venus isnt even the most powerful player but she still wins a lot of tournaments. Magnus is so full of it.

nasty nick#2
Feb 13th, 2003, 12:39 PM
WTA tennis is all about strenght nowadays, sorry but that's the truth. A player who's 6'1-6'2 and can hit the ball harder then the opponent wins 99 of 100 games.

Gowza
Feb 13th, 2003, 12:45 PM
womens tennis is partly about strength but nowadays strength is a necessity and it is almost a given these days as well.

serena and venus have really good balance on the run and they are quicke around the court now put strength, quickness and balance altogether and you get the sisters.

they have power but they can hit winners from anywhere and if they are on the defensive on the run they can produce a winner in one shot or an unreturnable. other top players can do this but they don't do it as often. the sisters also get very good angles from the centre of the court so it looks like it is the power when it isn't, well actually it is a combination of both. but they use angle and power in the same shot from the centre of the court and most of their shots are therefore unretrievable.

Greenout
Feb 13th, 2003, 12:56 PM
Poor Magnus.

Anyway- I hate to say it too; but tennis is about strenght
now. Like it or not. The thing about it that most people
aren't mentioning is that it's not just about ace's and
big serves; but handling the returns of these bombs.
The last match I recall seeing of Martina against a so
called big hitter; she had a trouble holding onto her
racket. The serves blew the racket out of her hand.
This is where the real strenght issue comes into play-
alot of the younger players like Eleni Danilidou are
strong enough to control a return on their racket.
Even Dokic, or Justine seem to be able to handle it.
Patty, and Chanda have gotten physically stronger
to do returns too.

You have to do EVERYTHING well now to be a top
player. Good serve, good mind, good foot speed,
fantastic return, decent volley etc...

Who knows about what Martina could have done?
It's all a bunch of maybe's, and if's. I like her style
of player, and mental match player- but I would have
hated her to become like Michael Chang. If you remember
after losing to Patrick Rafter at the USO 1997; the guy
was never the same. Tried to lift weights, get stronger,
gain more muscle- and it actually slowed down the foot
speed. There's a lesson to be learned here- you can only
change so much of your body type to a sport before
something just gives in and doesn't work at all.

Let's not blame the Sisters on this one. It was bound
to happen sooner or later like it does in all sports.
Players just getting quicker, bigger, stronger, and
younger- while the equipment get's better.

Aloysius
Feb 13th, 2003, 01:20 PM
You don't have to be incredibly strong to beat a powerful player. You need guile, fitness and impeccable strategic skills. That's what all the top players have. Of anyone, Martina Hingis is right at the top in terms of guile and strategic skills, but does she have the fitness? With her injury, I'm guessing not. Don't get me wrong - you need power also. But power alone is not enough if you don't have the other things to complement it.

Greenout
Feb 13th, 2003, 01:25 PM
Well..it's just still kind of weird, and sudden.
I think people still don't know what to make
of it.

So...will there be an official press conference?
A "Good bye tour"?

tennisfan1972
Feb 13th, 2003, 01:39 PM
Well i just want to throw this out there while we are at it. Since the french open and other clay tournaments are supposed to blunt the power and speed of shots, why doesnt it affect Serena and Venus? Does the clay courts not slow the ball down enuff or do they just hit so hard that clay courts dont slow down their shots> I mean it seems like people are saying they got lucky with winning all the clay court titles?? was their French open title a fluke? Since clay slows down the courts adn allows smart and tactical, strategic players time to think. Wouldnt somebody else haev won all those clay tournaments last yeat and made the finals instead of Venus and Serena? judging by the records, Venus has always been a superb clay court player based on her results on clay. I also want to reiterate, Why do some players just seem content with being weak if they can get stronger and win grand slams. Are the slams just not that important. I mean this is a physical sport, if you are not going to be physically ready to do what it takes, then whats the point. Your brain will only get you so far. Surely these players are smart enuff to realise this. or is it just me?

alex_nur
Feb 13th, 2003, 01:53 PM
People always keep saying that the sisters are only about power. Men if it's about power than where are all the Lucic, Pierce, Davenports?! It's power in some extent but it's also about placement, accuracy...that's why the sisters are dominating. They always were powerfull but now they're combining placement & strategy to it. If untalented or less technique means playing like the sisters so be it. I'll rather watch them play than see Conchita Martinez or any spanish player keep sending moonballs the whole day.

Cybelle Darkholme
Feb 13th, 2003, 02:05 PM
Only people who know nothing about tennis think serena and venus are all about power and are more powerful than the other players. Whoops, the haters think this as well.

Kim lindsay Jen and monica hit just as hard groundstrokes as Serena. Sorry its true. also isn't monica the original power player? If power alone beats everything then why did martina own monica?

This endless power debate is senseless because the detractors never answer the question nor do they bring new insight into the debate.

tennisfan1972
Feb 13th, 2003, 02:14 PM
Well i'm no fan of power tennis but i know great tennis when i see it. I think Venus and Serena basically have what is needed to dominate tennis.

1) The Best Speed
2) Great Fitness
3) The best serves(serena in particular)
4) the best defense
5)Great aggression and offense
6) not more than one exploitable weakness
7)Strategy
8) most importantly CONFIDENCE
9) BEST MENTAL GAME
10)HEALTH

Feel free to add to the list anything i may have missed.. But i believe to become a top player these days. U are going to have to be Great at just about all of these things. If you lack even just one, u will have a hard time in today's game.

TeeRexx
Feb 13th, 2003, 02:29 PM
TF1972 - I think that you covered all of the points.

Maybe you could add:

11) GREAT COACHING

Whatzup
Feb 13th, 2003, 02:33 PM
At the Aussie Open 2001 Martina defeated Venus 6-1 6-1, that says enough, but at this time... First Martina has to come back!

Crazy Canuck
Feb 13th, 2003, 02:36 PM
LOL @ Magnus

Isn't that cute? :D

Serendy Willick
Feb 13th, 2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Whatzup
At the Aussie Open 2001 Martina defeated Venus 6-1 6-1, that says enough, but at this time... First Martina has to come back!


Whoohoo, and then Venus proceeds not to lose another set to Martina in the rest of their matches. So what is your point? Where do these players even come from? Do they even bother to watch the Williams? Some of these people need to stick a cork in it and leave Vee and Serena alone, because I'm sure they wouldnt give a snuffs spit about what Magmus Norman has to say about them.

Scorch
Feb 13th, 2003, 03:08 PM
Yet again some people get all wound up by a comment that is not meant to be negative towards Venus or Serena.

Magnus made a brief diagnosis of where Martina stands compared to the numbers 1 and 2. It is just an opinion and power is an essential aspect to their game and the main reason why Martina could not handle them towards the end of her career.

WHAT DO YOU WANT MAGNUS TO DO WRITE A THESIS?

tennisfan1972
Feb 13th, 2003, 03:21 PM
WHATZUP, WHAT EXACTLY DOES HINGIS' DEFEATING VENUS 6-1, 6-1 SAY EXACTLY?? Please explain more please

persond
Feb 13th, 2003, 03:21 PM
:) Scorch, often times some people get "all wound up" because what was "meant" is not "always" what is!!! For sure, Normans' comment was not "meant" to be negative, but due to tone and tenor, often does become negative. Normands' "diagnosis, perhaps may have been proferred in a "manner" to only suggest what's needed in terms of Hingis' game, without making it seem as if the other players games were "suspect", so to speak!!!

However, from what Venus has stated in her interviews, she and Serena expects no less from their detractors, and wisely couldn't care less!!

barmaid
Feb 13th, 2003, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Dawn Marie
ROLLING ON THE FLOOR AND LAUGHING MY ASS OFF!

If your ass is as big as Serena's...you're going to be doing a lot of ROLLING!!:rolleyes: :p

tennisfan1972
Feb 13th, 2003, 03:25 PM
I dont find magnus' commenst neither negative or positive, justhis opinion. i think ist great somebody is speaking, That way we can have something to discus on the boards that is tennis related. i guess controversy is always a good catalyst for dialogue. so im all for it if we haev a respectible discourse from it.. I do believe his comments are worthy of a discussion though.Whether we agree or disagree with what he is saying is another thing. but he has made a very bold statement. and as a tennis messgae board i think its only fair that we analyse it .

tennisfan1972
Feb 13th, 2003, 03:33 PM
I think people are missing the whole point here. We have lost one of the truly greatest players the game has seen. its only natural that debates about her greatness will be discussed and analysed and compared to other greats of the past and present generation...etc and coming from martina's ex, we shouldnt expect him to say anything else. i mean what is he gonna say about a women he used to date? that "she woudlnt have stood a chance". I understand these kinda things will be said when people are emotional. we just have to put them in proper perspective. Ipersonally loved Hingis' matchups with power players> it was a joy to witness. I also like more athletically skilled and tactical power players liek Jen and the williams sisters. thats why the game has gotten so good they force each other to raise th ebar in terms of skills and athleticism. isnt that what its all about. going to the next level. i dunno

persond
Feb 13th, 2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by SM
why is it funny? hingis has a decent record against them esp until about a year or two ago, before she had injuries and stuff..

SM,

Sorry Love, but, Hingis' was beginning to lose on a regular basis to the Sisters, long, long, before her injuries. The Williamses had finally began to pull their games together, and were winning slams consistently.


hingis can beat them again but can she go through the hard yards to get her game back to that old level and BEYOND (as magnus says she must do?)...obviously not :( [/QUOTE]


And, as far as Hingis beating them again, I think she may have an "occaisional" win over them, but, never like it was during Hingis dominant years.

gL_hGsP
Feb 13th, 2003, 04:31 PM
i want martina come back and i want magnus to be her . . . again

Infiniti2001
Feb 13th, 2003, 04:38 PM
When Martina Hingis and even Lindsay were beating Venus early on in her career her body wasn't a problem--- now all of a sudden, it's strength and power :rolleyes: Venus and her sister have mastered the game, they were inexperienced, now they have experience. Experience is the key here, not power and strength --- they always had strength and power just didn't have the experience. They're both smarter players now, and Venus especially is constantly taking advantage of her opponents weaknesses. Watch her matches against Lindsay for example--she is a tactition on the court. A poster was spot on with her/his assesment of the Kim/Serena OZ semi final-- that too falls under the EXPERIENCE umbrella...
Uh, what happened to all their strength and power when martina beat them back to back at OZ 2001??? :fiery:

Meanwhile Magnus Norman needs to watch some more women matches.

SerenaSlam
Feb 13th, 2003, 04:42 PM
the main point is, the sisters could only get better, and now they are better, and they can still only get better. that is the big difference. martina has had the same game, the sisters have changed a lot. venus and serena were challenging Hingis back in 97-00' era. And now that they have cut down on the errors, and are even stronger than before, hingis really doesn't have a chance. And someone brought up a good point about the sisters against Capriati. Venus and Serena own her, and she has a lot more power than hingis. I know I know, whenever venus or serena have close matches, everyone on this board tends to jump up, in the sense that the player can eventually beat them if the matches are always close. This is the case of Serena vs. Cappy, but you also have to take note, that cappy has been on her game when they play, serena hasn't been the serena we've seen as of late when they play. So I think we all know Serena would take care of her like Venus has done. Back to hingis, she can get stronger, it would help her out a lot, but will and can she do it? I honestly don't think she will put the effort into it if she were to return. I mean back in 2000 everyone was getting on her that she needed a much better second serve. She didn't commit to doing that, matter of fact she just needed a better serve. So i knew when she said she phsycially can't do it, she means it, if she can't even at least try on working on a better serve, what makes you think she is going to want to try and get in better physical shape and return to the tour? she really is a burn out, based on these facts, she can come back, but she chooses not to gut it out, and just fall back!

SerenaSlam
Feb 13th, 2003, 04:44 PM
venus and serena have gotten much stronger physcially to me since 2001, that was 2 years ago, even if they only got a lil stronger each year, 2 years adds up. and you can see and tell, some shots they would get pushed back on, and especially serena, she tends to step in the court even more when someone hits a powerful shot at her!

Crazy Canuck
Feb 13th, 2003, 04:51 PM
I wonder if Magnus thinks he can still beat Guga?

Simplify
Feb 13th, 2003, 04:53 PM
Probably does.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 13th, 2003, 04:54 PM
What about Hewitt? Surely he can still beat Hewitt!

Andre@
Feb 13th, 2003, 06:44 PM
I think The Martina's problem is only MENTAL.

But Poor Norman He continues love with her.

HEHEHEHE
I am rolling on the floor too. :D :D :D :D :D

BrianII
Feb 13th, 2003, 07:02 PM
The thing is that Magnus is not a small guy himself , I mean compared to The Arazis,Rios,Grojean,Clements,Rochus brothers Santoro's hes a giant ...maybe he should be of the opinion tha t the only reason hes is capable of being oa pro player is because hes bigger and stronger than these guys..infact come to think of it he looks almost twice as thicKset as guga and guga one handed backhand far outpaces his TWOHANDED backhand....I don't have a problem with him saying martina could beat Venus and Serena ...thats nothing new, they been splitting victories for years ...but the inference that just strength is why they win and yet he loses to those hes stronger than beats me ..exactly what is the head to head with Santoro and Marat Safin...maybe he should check before openening his mouth.

ex hopman
Feb 13th, 2003, 07:11 PM
Magnus is really a cool guy... he was driving Martina's Porche around when he was in Saddlebrook!! :p

Dawn Marie
Feb 13th, 2003, 08:10 PM
I wish my ass was as sexy as Serena's but sadly I have a small behind.

I am still rollin on the floor laughing my ass off! Magnus it seems is P*ssy Whipped:):)

MarcusRock
Feb 13th, 2003, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by schris
in your dreams Magnus ;)

but I can understand him, he still loves her ;) Exactly. Don't be so hard on the guy everyone. He's just trying to get a piece of Martina once again. I think he figures that because she's retired and not on tour that she can travel around with him or stay home and cook for him during the off-season. He's just saying what she wants to hear. Like none of you have ever done this to get some ;) LOL.

miranda_lou
Feb 13th, 2003, 09:45 PM
What does Andre Agassi do technically that Serena cannot do?, yet he is considered very skilful.

It's amazing. Andre Agassi stands at the baseline and hits balls to every corner and runs like a deer. Serena does the SAME THING. People praise Andre for his "skill" at hitting the ball early and hard but denigrate Serena for doing the same thing. I wonder why.:confused:

Venus and Serena were beaten by EVERYBODY early in their careers because they were learning. They never played in the Juniors the way Hingis and most everybody else did. They didn't know what to do when a match was close; they hit the ball hard but didn't know how to control it. In the past 3 years they've learned and their game has progressed. As someone pointed out, Hingis' game is the exact same as it has always been. That's why she hasn't won a Slam since 1999. If she came back (which she won't), it would be business as usual . . . her game would be the same and not only Venus and Serena but EVERY PLAYER ON THE PLANET would beat her because everybody has progressed. The game has passed Martina by and she doesn't have the confidence, the will nor I feel, the ability to come back. She knows she can't and that's why she won't.:o

As for what Norman said . . . he was #1 in the world for about two days so I guess he thinks he's some kind of "expert." However, everything he said was not posted and I'll wait until I can read all of his comments before jumping on him and beating him up side the head.;) (I subscribe to that ******************** but I can't get into it here at work for some reason.) I'll read it when I get home.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 13th, 2003, 09:54 PM
It's amazing. Andre Agassi stands at the baseline and hits balls to every corner and runs like a deer. Serena does the SAME THING. People praise Andre for his "skill" at hitting the ball early and hard but denigrate Serena for doing the same thing. I wonder why.

Well you see miranda_lou , Andre is a man. Men are supposed to be tough and powerful. Women are supposed to be weak and cute. Some people don't particularly like seeing that stereotype smashed to pieces :D

Although I'm not sure that I would say Serena does exactly what Andre does, I was responding to the general theme of the question.


As for what Norman said . . . he was #1 in the world for about two days so I guess he thinks he's some kind of "expert."

Actually, Norman was never number 1 in the world. Norman was number on in the Champions Race before the French Open that year. That is not the same thing. He never made it to number on in the entry system. He was at best, number 2 behind Guga.

Although under normal circumstances I would have to conclude that Magnus Norman, professional tennis player, is far more of an "expert" than any Joe Blow who posts on this message board will ever be.

However these circumstances aren't normal, as he's speaking of his ex girlfriend. In which case it's kind of funny and cute :D

miranda_lou
Feb 13th, 2003, 10:04 PM
That's what I meant, Champions' Race. He got to the finals of the French so that gave him enough points to be #1 for a minute.;) He hasn't done anything since but then, he's been injured. (Lost first round at the Seibel Open the other day, I believe.)

Serena doesn't play "exactly" like Andre because Andre stalks the baseline, seldom hitting from behind it, while Serena plays behind it, but I was talking in general. They both hit the ball from the baseline with a lot of power.

Men are supposed to be tough and powerful. Women are supposed to be weak and cute

Unless they are lesbians then it's okay because they are "half a man." Serena and Venus just destroy all the stereotypes and people don't know what to do. They need to take a deep breath and get over it.:rolleyes:

Crazy Canuck
Feb 13th, 2003, 10:12 PM
That's what I meant, Champions' Race. He got to the finals of the French so that gave him enough points to be #1 for a minute. He hasn't done anything since but then, he's been injured. (Lost first round at the Seibel Open the other day, I believe.)

Granted, the Champions Race means squat until the last point of the season has been won. Magnus being number one in the race holds as much meaning as Koubek being number one in the race.

Anyhow, yes he's been injured. His crash from number 4 in the world to outside the top 200 at one point, was due to his injuries.

He just lost in Siebel to the guy who beat him in the Tokyo finals at the end of 2002 :sad:


Unless they are lesbians then it's okay because they are "half a man." Serena and Venus just destroy all the stereotypes and people don't know what to do. They need to take a deep breath and get over it.

Indeed.

yoyo
Feb 13th, 2003, 10:40 PM
That's a shame ! This guy still needs Hingis 's money and body ! He wants to be dumped a second time !

TSequoia01
Feb 13th, 2003, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by Whatzup
At the Aussie Open 2001 Martina defeated Venus 6-1 6-1, that says enough, but at this time... First Martina has to come back!

Well Martina deserved that victory because it was not her fault that Venus was in school and had only 11 days to prepare. But I believe that was her last victory over either Sister. Hmm lets see Jan of 2001 and it is Feb 2003...hell that was two full years ago. :eek:

CC
Feb 14th, 2003, 12:08 AM
Has Martina ever gone back and re-date anyone? ;)

Crazy Canuck
Feb 14th, 2003, 03:01 AM
That's a shame ! This guy still needs Hingis 's money and body ! He wants to be dumped a second time !

I highly doubt that Magnus needs her money. As for her body, maybe she could lend him a new hip? :sad:


And LOL @ anybody who is actually getting into this and taking it for more than it is :D

GoGoMaggie
Feb 14th, 2003, 03:52 AM
I honestly do not see a thing wrong with what Norman said. It's not a matter of wrong or right. It's just his opinion n does not sound as stupid as some of you crazily make it out.
I would like know what statement could statisfy you enough. I think saying the sisters are the best humans in the world is about the only thing that could do it. but that's simply not true.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 14th, 2003, 04:58 AM
gogomaggie - I can't speak for everybody else, but his comments are hilarious because of who is saying them. If Jonas Bjorkman had spat these comments out as opposed to the more negative things that he apparently said, I would have been on his defense.

But Magnus? HI-larious :D Hopefully he gets rewarded for his good deed :o

GoGoMaggie
Feb 14th, 2003, 05:09 AM
He's Martina's ex-bf....is that why he sounds so hilarious by saying that?

ys
Feb 14th, 2003, 05:19 AM
It's amazing. Andre Agassi stands at the baseline and hits balls to every corner and runs like a deer. Serena does the SAME THING. People praise Andre for his "skill" at hitting the ball early and hard but denigrate Serena for doing the same thing. I wonder why.

It's amazing that someone can confuse a precise, tactical and maneuvering game with headless whacking from the baseline. If you are talking about Agassi ( Agassi 1998 and later, not earlier version ), think about Hingis with a power on groundstrokes.

Uxobi
Feb 14th, 2003, 05:29 AM
Maybe he thinks he still has a chance to get into Martina'a pants by making such outrageous predictions!

jojoseph
Feb 14th, 2003, 06:18 AM
if her ankle is fine, like her doctor originally said, she needs to get her ass back out on that court before she regrets it. After she really retires, she's gonna have plenty of years to have offcourt fun, however once your stellar career is over, it's over and her best days should be right now.

All she's gotta do is bring the same game she used against the sisters at the oz that she barely lost to JenCap after having those match points and that netted her a grand win against Venus and that tough three setter against Serena that made it only the second or third time someone ever beat the both of them in the same tournament.

It's sounds like a lot, but it's not for someone that is one of the best players to ever play the game, is as intelligent on the court as she is, and still has some of the best skills in the game. Just because the sisters are winning everything in sight doesn't mean that Hingis can't come back out, get some practice in and finally kick their butt. If there's anybody that can, it's her.

She needs to quit her pouting and get her ass back on the fricken court. And now.

1jackson2001
Feb 14th, 2003, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by miranda_lou
It's amazing. Andre Agassi stands at the baseline and hits balls to every corner and runs like a deer. Serena does the SAME THING. People praise Andre for his "skill" at hitting the ball early and hard but denigrate Serena for doing the same thing. I wonder why.:confused:

LOL. Ok I am gonna agree with the general consensus here that Martina losing to V&S is not just because of the sisters' power. Venus and Serena have more to offer than that.

But, saying that Serena does the same thing as Andre? I'm sorry, but what Serena does maybe kinda similar to what Andre does but she doesn't do it nearly as well. Serena hits way more errors than Andre does (she is less accurate/precise) and as powerful as her shots may be, they're still weaker than Andre's in general. Serena has a great return game, but Andre has a better one. Andre also takes the ball earlier. Serena perhaps has the best serve in women's tennis..but it is still inferior to Andre's serve. His serve has probably been the most underrated aspect of his game. He doesn't do it as well as some of the other men on tour, but it's still better than Serena's.

The truth is a lot of the top women players just have a baseline slugfest and there isn't that much variety in general. It's all about who can hit harder at the moment. Sure Andre has a purely baseline game but he doesn't blow his opponenets away with sheer power. His baseline game is nearly flawless. Serena uses tactics but she doesn't work her opponents like Andre does. She may be trying to do the same thing, but she is not able to execute it like Andre. And boy sometimes her errors sure do pile up. ;)

If Andre and Serena were to play a match against each other...then you'll see what I mean.

LUIS9
Feb 14th, 2003, 06:34 AM
yes the williams arent all completely about power but to say that they arent the most powerful out there you have to be lying to your selves.only they can consistently hit 1st serves over 110 and only they can squash the balls from even a mile away from the baseline (sarcasm) however yes they have become more skilled, and tactically its more pleasurable to watch them.but they arent quite yet as balanced, between power and stratergy.if this doesnt imply they are powerful or the ultimate power players than everyone else is simply playing pseudo tennis.they win points 80% time when they squash the ball or hit aces, implying its their power that really wins them their matches, however yes they can create great angles but its the pace behind it thats making them so successful.no bashing was meant from my part but to say venus and serena arent the most powerful is to say that coetzer can squat 250 lbs.they are physicaly gifted as well and if there is something i can admire from their game is their athtleticism,its 2nd to none and that as well is an edge to their games.yes its not their fault that they are gifted in both of those departments as a sport demands both fitness,physical ability and athletic ability. :bounce:

treufreund
Feb 14th, 2003, 07:06 AM
Hmm funny how upset some of you get when a talented player like Norman who probably knows 1000 times more about tennis than any of you thinks that Martina could do it *****IF***** she worked on the physical part as the QUOTE read!

Btw, not too long ago MARTINA NAVRATILOVA said the same thing to Tracy Austin on the air at the US Open when Hingis was not playing well at all. If any of you think Martina N's opinion is silly then you really are clueless. BJK said that no matter how much power there is in tennis that players with a gift like Hingis can ALWAYS EXCEL! So I guess BJK, Martina Navratilova and Magnus Norman know less about tennis than you people :rolleyes: The big, big IF is how willing Martina is to do the work but if Kim Clijsters and Jennifer Capriati can challenge Serena repeatedly then there is NO REASON why Martina Hingis skills and talents are not sufficient PROVIDED THAT SHE WORK HARD AND THAT SHE WANT IT!

Dawn Marie
Feb 14th, 2003, 08:07 AM
Nobody is upset about Magnus and his statements, hell were all laughing!! LOL

waiting on the following to make their guest appearance statements: Sergio Garcia,Ivo Harberger(sp),stalker,low key lay in the hay,Anna K. It really is funny this thread. lol

Crazy Canuck
Feb 14th, 2003, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by Dawn Marie
Nobody is upset about Magnus and his statements, hell were all laughing!! LOL

waiting on the following to make their guest appearance statements: Sergio Garcia,Ivo Harberger(sp),stalker,low key lay in the hay,Anna K. It really is funny this thread. lol


Would the next ex boyfriend please stand up? :D

You would think that Magnus would have waited his turn instead of going out of order like that :rolleyes:

Dawn Marie
Feb 14th, 2003, 09:46 AM
Magnus got a lil too happy there I do believe!!

Wha what the heck? Why is Anna standing up waving her hands like that? Lol:):D

Crazy Canuck
Feb 14th, 2003, 09:55 AM
Tauziat gets to go after Anna :D

Dawn Marie
Feb 14th, 2003, 10:26 AM
Omg I forgot all about her. Sit down Nat! We see you already! LOL!:)

joneg2
Feb 14th, 2003, 10:52 AM
Magnus is right. The sisters win matches with athleticism and an unheard of dose of unforced errors. Who ever heard of winning matches, especially championships with 50, 60 and sometimes 70 UE's in successive matches...? That's a champion...? Maybe a more physically gifted athlete...sure...but a champion...? They are stronger and more athletic than the other girls...period. But not as strong or athletic as the men.

Btw, Martina's record, with her tiny little body, isn't so bad against them, is it...? Amazing how playing technically sound tennis can bridge the gap between the more physically gifted...sometimes.:eek:

Chance
Feb 14th, 2003, 11:04 AM
:rolleyes:

Crazy Canuck
Feb 14th, 2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by joneg2
Magnus is right. The sisters win matches with athleticism and an unheard of dose of unforced errors. Who ever heard of winning matches, especially championships with 50, 60 and sometimes 70 UE's in successive matches...? That's a champion...? Maybe a more physically gifted athlete...sure...but a champion...? They are stronger and more athletic than the other girls...period. But not as strong or athletic as the men.

Btw, Martina's record, with her tiny little body, isn't so bad against them, is it...? Amazing how playing technically sound tennis can bridge the gap between the more physically gifted...sometimes.:eek:

*points and laughs*

servenrichie
Feb 14th, 2003, 11:12 AM
joneg2 continue with that drivel, if it is what makes you happy.
One thing is clear, they are champions irrespective of what your little sick ass thinks!

Dawn Marie
Feb 14th, 2003, 11:17 AM
Joneg, have you looked at the UE stats lately when ladies play? Many players make more errors than V@S. lol Remember that 100 ue's match not so long ago? You talk of errors like it is a sin, and yet that is one the main reasons why Hingis use to beat the hard hitters. Just can it. Seles hits hard you speak not, Jen and Kim the same you speak not. Speak not.

irma
Feb 14th, 2003, 11:20 AM
venus arms look thinner then martina's did!

joneg2
Feb 14th, 2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by servenrichie
joneg2 continue with that drivel, if it is what makes you happy.
One thing is clear, they are champions irrespective of what your little sick ass thinks!

I must be a "hater!" :confused:

servenrichie
Feb 14th, 2003, 11:35 AM
Fact is, Martina beat them regularly from 1997-1999 (early part), even though they had power then. Since then they have added something else to their games, that allows them this domination and it is certainly not "power". This is where Norman lost his credibility :mad:
Is it only me or this now a "sweedish thing":sad:

I have been sympathising with Norman all these years for having lost his masculinity after Hingis dumped him, but it seems he lost not just his masculinity, but also his senses :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The detractors are having a field day. Finally someone, a tennis expert say what they have been thinking all this while. I just have these to say:

1. Fuck off! - you dont like it?

2. Tell the other women to get stronger (if that is the quality needed to win slams nowadays) -You still dont like it?

3. We shall be counting Venus and Serena 's slams at the end of their careers and Hingis slams wont have more quality, because "she had a small body" :rolleyes:

FP
Feb 14th, 2003, 01:17 PM
listen servenrichie it's more look like u don't have senses :o:rolleyes:

Scorch
Feb 14th, 2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by servenrichie
Fact is, Martina beat them regularly from 1997-1999 (early part), even though they had power then. Since then they have added something else to their games, that allows them this domination and it is certainly not "power". This is where Norman lost his credibility :mad:
Is it only me or this now a "sweedish thing":sad:

I have been sympathising with Norman all these years for having lost his masculinity after Hingis dumped him, but it seems he lost not just his masculinity, but also his senses :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The detractors are having a field day. Finally someone, a tennis expert say what they have been thinking all this while. I just have these to say:

1. Fuck off! - you dont like it?

2. Tell the other women to get stronger (if that is the quality needed to win slams nowadays) -You still dont like it?

3. We shall be counting Venus and Serena 's slams at the end of their careers and Hingis slams wont have more quality, because "she had a small body" :rolleyes:

If I could offer some advice...

1. Take 10 deep breaths.

2. Remove the bug from your butt.

3. Get annoyed when it is worth it and when there is really something to get annoyed about (it's like the boy who cried wolf)


Nah what the hell, like Rebecca said it is kinda funny watchin' people FREAK over nothing at all. :lick:

servenrichie
Feb 14th, 2003, 01:49 PM
Fp, i thought you said women tennis died the day Martina retired. I would say you are trespassing here buddy! Shoosh go somewhere and whine!

Scorch, it seems the stick you stuck up your ass is giving you pains. Either remove the stick or take pain relievers, but get out of my way!
Who the hell do you think you are to tell me what i should get annoyed about and what not. You are begginng to over-estimate yourself Idiot! :mad:

tennisfan1972
Feb 14th, 2003, 02:51 PM
GEEZ i thought the fire in this thread had died down a bit. silly me. Well lets just end the quarrelling. everybody knows that venus and Serena And Jen adn Kim adn Amelie are all physically gifted, Athletically gifted, mentally gifted etc. thast why they win. tennis is not just about brains. If brains were all that was needed, then im sure that we would have seen much smarter players than martina, venus , serena et al;
To win grand slams u need brains, fitness, strategy, endurance, mental game etc etc etc. in today's game , if you are lacking in one or more of these things, u will lose and u will not win any slams. The "smart" players are those who realise this and work on their weaknesses. some of you are really disrespecting the women's game by insinuating that the pastgrand slam winners are just bashing the ball from corner to corner. they deserve more credit for the skill they possess. if u think serena's game is just bang bang bang, then u are sadly mistaken, i dont really like serena as a player because her points are too quick for me, but must be blind if u dont realise she has some of the best angled shots on the tour. i haev never seen a player construct better angles in my life off of some of teh power shots that come to her. i mean gees she can creat a 30 degree crosscourt angle off of a Jen Capriati forehand blister, that is a result of skill and practice. not a coincidence.

persond
Feb 14th, 2003, 02:55 PM
:D :D Wow, this really has become a funny, funny. funny thread!!!:D :D

:D :D RLMAO:hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:


(RLMAO = Really Laughing My Azzz Off)

servenrichie
Feb 14th, 2003, 03:05 PM
Well said tennisfan1972!