Let me see, she lost to Graf (2 times) and Sabatini (2 times).
That's all? :eek:
ßcoene
Feb 13th, 2003, 01:53 AM
Justine Henin at 11. :)
CJ07
Feb 13th, 2003, 04:04 AM
thats frightning
Leena
Feb 13th, 2003, 04:09 AM
I didn't expect Martina N. at #8... well #5 when you take out the schlubs who shouldn't be there.
tennisfan1972
Feb 13th, 2003, 04:18 AM
Ashley harkleroad is higher than Conchita martinez? something must be really wrong with this stat? do we have a list of clay tournaments won by each player to see a comparison of how players actually did in terms of titles
Leena
Feb 13th, 2003, 04:21 AM
The stats are screwed because 1) There's players with far too little matches to be considered and 2) Some of these players' results are only in challengers.
Crazy Canuck
Feb 13th, 2003, 05:12 AM
The stats aren't screwed; misleading perhaps. All they did was list the players in order of winning percentage on clay over their careers.
Wether or not one wants to use this as the sole criteria for their judgement as to who the "all time career clay couters" is a different discussion altogether.
I'm confused though - did Evert not win something like 125 straight matches on clay? Why are they not all counted? :confused:
irma
Feb 13th, 2003, 06:28 AM
I say nothing ;)
tennisIlove09
Feb 13th, 2003, 06:53 AM
I don't think the headline "Top 45 All-Time Career Clay Court Players" is a good headline.
You have Martina Hingis ahead of Martina Navratilova and Serena Williams and Jennifer Capriati. Now, techincally those three will be considered *better* clay players because they won the French, something that Hingis failed to do.
one could post the Grass court records, and have Player Z who has never won Wimbledon, but got to numerous semis, and won a bunch of warm ups. Vs. a Player like Venus who has won 2 Wimbledons, be ranked LOWER. Clearly, Venus is the better grass courter.
Just my two cents.
schris
Feb 13th, 2003, 06:58 AM
And Steffi said she hate clay ;)
IcePrincess
Feb 13th, 2003, 07:25 AM
Did Helen Keller calculate these statistics?
Chrissie Evert had a 125-match winning streak on clay. And she's a 7-time French Open champion.
Let's give her some props.
:wavey:
hingis-seles
Feb 13th, 2003, 08:49 AM
MOnica!! :eek:
tennisIlove09
Feb 13th, 2003, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by IcePrincess
Did Helen Keller calculate these statistics?
Chrissie Evert had a 125-match winning streak on clay. And she's a 7-time French Open champion.
Let's give her some props.
:wavey:
yes exactly! I mean, are we really going to say "Graf was a better clay courter then Evert"?? Please.
PS: H2H between Graf/Evert.
Graf leads 8-6
Clay: Chris Evert (USA) leads 3:1;)
gladysharon
Feb 13th, 2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by bcoene
Justine Henin at 11. :)
:bounce:
Mark43
Feb 13th, 2003, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by IcePrincess
Did Helen Keller calculate these statistics?
Chrissie Evert had a 125-match winning streak on clay. And she's a 7-time French Open champion.
Let's give her some props.
:wavey:
Exactly! I think Chris has a better winning percentage on clay. Maybe I am not reading these stats correctly...perhapsbecausetheylooklikethis!!!!
Joseosu19
Feb 13th, 2003, 07:22 PM
Its pretty misleading...Venus and Serena have only played 14 and 9 clay court tourneys respectively. Others, like Martinez, Sanchez-vicario have played 75+.
CJ07
Feb 13th, 2003, 07:37 PM
1. Chrissie
2. Steffi
3. Monica
GO MONICA!
I wonder if Venus is top 5 on all-time hardcourt list
Nacho
Feb 13th, 2003, 07:41 PM
this is absolutely useless :rolleyes:
england_rules
Feb 13th, 2003, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by tennisIlove09
I don't think the headline "Top 45 All-Time Career Clay Court Players" is a good headline.
You have Martina Hingis ahead of Martina Navratilova and Serena Williams and Jennifer Capriati. Now, techincally those three will be considered *better* clay players because they won the French, something that Hingis failed to do.
one could post the Grass court records, and have Player Z who has never won Wimbledon, but got to numerous semis, and won a bunch of warm ups. Vs. a Player like Venus who has won 2 Wimbledons, be ranked LOWER. Clearly, Venus is the better grass courter.
Just my two cents.
Yeah Serena won the French Open but Hingis was far more consistent on clay. I mean she made finals in '97, semis in '98, finals in '99, semis in '00, and semis in '01! Serena's are okay but not better than Hingis.
Same as with Jenny!
King Lindsay
Feb 13th, 2003, 11:52 PM
Finally! Na Li gets the credit she deserves!
Venus Forever
Feb 14th, 2003, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by england_rules
Yeah Serena won the French Open but Hingis was far more consistent on clay. I mean she made finals in '97, semis in '98, finals in '99, semis in '00, and semis in '01! Serena's are okay but not better than Hingis.
Same as with Jenny!
They have played a lot more matches on clay, Serena has played VERY FEW. Martina and Jen have played more than twice the amount than Serena, they have a better chance of improving because they have gotten better as their career progressed.
Serena has played 42 matches on clay TOTAL. She won 33 of them and has won the only GS on clay.
Martina has played 125 matches on clay, three times the amount of Serena.
Jennifer has played 137 matches on clay.
My point being, players only get better on a surface as they play it more. As Serena progresses, she will probably surpass Hingis in these rankings.
Jericho
Feb 14th, 2003, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by england_rules
Yeah Serena won the French Open but Hingis was far more consistent on clay. I mean she made finals in '97, semis in '98, finals in '99, semis in '00, and semis in '01! Serena's are okay but not better than Hingis.
Same as with Jenny!
consistency doesnt always win you grand slams...obviously look who ends up with a french open title and who doesnt...
1jackson2001
Feb 14th, 2003, 05:55 AM
Originally posted by VeNuS FoReVeR
They have played a lot more matches on clay, Serena has played VERY FEW. Martina and Jen have played more than twice the amount than Serena, they have a better chance of improving because they have gotten better as their career progressed.
Serena has played 42 matches on clay TOTAL. She won 33 of them and has won the only GS on clay.
Martina has played 125 matches on clay, three times the amount of Serena.
Jennifer has played 137 matches on clay.
My point being, players only get better on a surface as they play it more. As Serena progresses, she will probably surpass Hingis in these rankings.
Exactly. Let's wait til after Serena plays her clay court tournies this year...then after next year..and so on...until Serena also has played 125 matches (like Martina) or 137 matches (like Jen) on clay. Then we should compare those three's succuss on clay.
Robbie.
Feb 14th, 2003, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by tennisIlove09
I don't think the headline "Top 45 All-Time Career Clay Court Players" is a good headline.
You have Martina Hingis ahead of Martina Navratilova and Serena Williams and Jennifer Capriati. Now, techincally those three will be considered *better* clay players because they won the French, something that Hingis failed to do.
one could post the Grass court records, and have Player Z who has never won Wimbledon, but got to numerous semis, and won a bunch of warm ups. Vs. a Player like Venus who has won 2 Wimbledons, be ranked LOWER. Clearly, Venus is the better grass courter.
Just my two cents.
Winning one French Title does not neccessarily constitute being a better clay court player than someone who never won the title - this is an extremely simplistic interpretation of statistics.
Yes Serena won the French Open 2002, most definitely surpassing any SINGLE achievement that Hingis has on her clay court resume. However you obviously forget that before 2002 Serena had not progressed beyond the quarterfinals of any claycourt tournament. Even today she has only been beyond the quarterfinals of claycourt events 3 times. Yes I recognise that she has played very little on clay, but to me this is all the more reason to rank Hingis a head of her.
Serena has two clay court titles, Hingis has won 2 titles each at the Family Circle Cup and Hamburg, an Italian Open and a German Open. Combined with her 2 Finals and 3 semifinal appearances at Roland Garros I find it hard to rank Serena greater than Hingis on the basis of one title. If Serena were never to play or win a claycourt match again (which I realise is highly unlikely), Hingis would be considered superior based on the totality of their records. of course Serena can surpass the achievements of Martina on clay in the future. A second win at RG would just about do it.
And I do not rank jennifer a superior clay court player to Martina either.
No single grandslam can outway a compilation of high callibre achievements. Are we then to say that Mary Pierce is defintively a greater claycourter than Hingis? Or Iva Majoli? or that Mary Pierce is a greater claycourt exponent than Conchita Martinez? Sometimes it is not as simple as adding GS numbers up.
irma
Feb 14th, 2003, 07:42 AM
I am pretty sure martina would love to be the worst clayplayer in the world with one or a few french open titles then the best without a french open title. so with other words she would love to have been miss I hate clay;) (another things she always denied. poor marty ;))
ktwtennis
Feb 14th, 2003, 10:38 AM
Let's hope Monica rediscovers this form on clay that got her so many titles back when...