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ktwtennis
Jan 25th, 2003, 12:46 PM
Watching the final, I noticed how horrible the quality of the actual match was. It wasn't really good tennis! Sure, it had drama and it was the sisters, but if you were truly honest with yourself, you would know you don't really love tennis if you love these match ups. These are just good atheletes running around, hitting and occasional winner and going to the net. Most of the time, we see errors. How many times did Serena hit Venus' serve in the net or long? How many times did Venus hit that forehand or backhand wide or long? Sure, they're at the top of the game, but really we had much more quality of tennis back in the day of Hingis, Davenport, Seles, Graf, etc.

tennisfan1972
Jan 25th, 2003, 12:53 PM
I think everybody likes different things in a tennis match. Some folks like athleticism, some folks like risky shots, some folks like consistency, some folks like finesse. To each his own. I personally thought the match was very entertaining and i know im a tennis fan and that i love tennis.

Gallofa
Jan 25th, 2003, 12:57 PM
Oh you are not going to make friends here, I can tell ;).

I don't know how all of them have been. I saw the RG final and I was appalled at how bad it was. I just sat there amazed that it was so bad. It made me not want to see those match-ups again. Some people might find them good of course. To me, that match I did see was really bad tennis. And since I do not really support one or the other, and hence, don't care about the drama, I am not that interested in watching them.

But that's just my opinion. To each their own :p

ktwtennis
Jan 25th, 2003, 12:58 PM
I agree it had drama, but the QUALITY of tennis wasn't near what finals of the past have been...

Sam L
Jan 25th, 2003, 12:59 PM
It was good tennis, some of the points were really well played, and a lot of balls came back that should've been winners against other players. Still, there were plenty of winners and they were good. The match had more errors seemingly cause these are two VERY aggressive players. I have to say this is one of the best grand slam finals I've seen in the last couple of years.

Experimentee
Jan 25th, 2003, 12:59 PM
How can you say people dont love tennis if they like the match? I personally thought it was a great match, and I've been a tennis fan for years, even before the Williams sisters started on the tour. They both fought really hard and were getting balls back that no other player would have reached! They both also hit some great shots, Serena especially! I think its the best match they've ever played against one another.
I think if we have to say someone is not a tennis fan, its the people who only enjoy matches when their faves are playing, and say all the other ones are boring.

Experimentee
Jan 25th, 2003, 01:07 PM
Serenas winner/UE ratio was 37-54.
Venus' was 28-51

Thats about average for the Williams sisters, taking into account the pressure from the aggressive opponent. They both hit very hard so most of the shots that would have been winners against any other opponent were forced errors.
You also have to take into account that today was 44 degrees C, the hottest day we've had for about 10 years or so. They might have played even better if the conditions werent so tough.

Tennis Fool
Jan 25th, 2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by ktwtennis
Watching the final, I noticed how horrible the quality of the actual match was. It wasn't really good tennis! These are just good atheletes running around.


Oh, so you're saying that Serena and Venus aren't TENNIS PLAYERS? They somehow fooled the people of the WOMEN'S TENNIS ASSOCIATION into ranking them #1 and #2 for a SPORT THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO PLAY?


Based on your logic "real tennis players play quality tennis"--

Seles isn't always a tennis player. Just some Eastern European girl who grunts (i.e. her loss to Hingis 6:0, 6:0 a few years back; her loss to Daja at USO a couple of years ago)

Hingis isn't always a tennis player. Just some psuedo Swiss kid with a bad attitude (Her loss to Dokic and VRP at Wimbledon, among many other "subpar matches).

Get real.

:rolleyes:

Rae Q.
Jan 25th, 2003, 01:54 PM
Ktwtennis then why aren't these other girls beating Serena and Venus? I swear some of you sound so bitter. :rolleyes:

supremeross
Jan 25th, 2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Experimentee
How can you say people dont love tennis if they like the match? I personally thought it was a great match, and I've been a tennis fan for years, even before the Williams sisters started on the tour. They both fought really hard and were getting balls back that no other player would have reached! They both also hit some great shots, Serena especially! I think its the best match they've ever played against one another.
I think if we have to say someone is not a tennis fan, its the people who only enjoy matches when their faves are playing, and say all the other ones are boring.

I think you hit the nail right on the head. Unfortunately for some people (people that neither Venus, Serena nor I can give a rats ass about) will never see anything good in anything the Williams Sisters do or accomplish. I, quite personally, am totally fascinated and feels so fortunate to be around today to see them play. Play on Venus and Serena, your haters will never hate you as much as I (and all your fans) LOVE you and respect your accomplishments!:)

ktwtennis
Jan 25th, 2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Tennis Fool
Oh, so you're saying that Serena and Venus aren't TENNIS PLAYERS? They somehow fooled the people of the WOMEN'S TENNIS ASSOCIATION into ranking them #1 and #2 for a SPORT THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO PLAY?


Based on your logic "real tennis players play quality tennis"--

Seles isn't always a tennis player. Just some Eastern European girl who grunts (i.e. her loss to Hingis 6:0, 6:0 a few years back; her loss to Daja at USO a couple of years ago)

Hingis isn't always a tennis player. Just some psuedo Swiss kid with a bad attitude (Her loss to Dokic and VRP at Wimbledon, among many other "subpar matches).

Get real.

:rolleyes: Um, these are isolated instances, some including injury(Seles losing in double bagel form and Hingis at Wimbledon)...The Williams have done this now for FOUR STRAIGHT FINALS! You would think by now that the quality of tennis would be better. IT SHOULD be better. Last year, it was hot, and the quality was great and it had drama! So the heat isn't an excuse. The 1993 final here was really hot as well, and Seles and Graf produced a great final where there was power and great running. The reason no one is beating them right now is mental--90% of the players on tour don't believe they can beat them, so the Williams' already have them beat at the beginning. Second, their first serves are better weapons than everyone else's. Third, they run down balls and hit them back with interest. However, their erratic play makes for a poor final...

Cybelle Darkholme
Jan 25th, 2003, 06:04 PM
youre a fool if you haven't realized by now that the sister factor is present in their matches just like every sibling match ever played and it will never go away. The sister factor keeps it from being great. Maybe one day it will be but so far it has only been good not great.

However when you put two players on a court you have never guaranted it will be great. Was steffi's 6 0 60 over sabatini great? please. it was crap.

Hidden Stillness
Jan 25th, 2003, 06:27 PM
The same dreary round. 1) Somebody expresses an honest criticism against the level of play of a Williams match. 2) The vicious attack of the facsists: "so bitter," "oh, so you're saying that...," "your haters will never hate you as much as I...," blah blah blah. It was a boring, sloppy match, as usual. I agree with Gallofa (?!?). Don't some of you Williams "fans" think before you attack?

Blogger Dives
Jan 25th, 2003, 07:17 PM
It's hard to top last years 2002's Jenn vs Martina final, in the come from behind miracle..... When Martina finally had a chance to get the "no slams" title off her back..... Errrrr it still pisses me off to think of it :mad:

TSequoia01
Jan 25th, 2003, 07:44 PM
I understand the point that is being made here. I tend to disagree with the writer's definition of quality tennis. I guess it is one of taste though. The thread writer likes tennis from a different era evidently. Long slow rallies, 60 mph serves, slices and drop shots as opposed to powerful, hi speed tennis. Winning tennis is quality tennis from my view point. Tennis is athletics. Take away the athletics and it becomes a game. :cool:

1jackson2001
Jan 25th, 2003, 07:51 PM
I agree that there was a lot of drama, but the quality could be a lot better. (ie quality being higher if either one fo them was playing someone else, especially if venus was playing another player.)

VS Fan
Jan 25th, 2003, 08:01 PM
The BEST set Venus and Serena played at a major STILL has to be
Wimbledon 2002 final. (First Set) If you have the tape watch it Few errors, long fast paced rallys, amazing shots, most points on FORCED errors.

In spite of errors this AO Final WAS the most competetive overall through all three sets.

QUEENLINDSAY
Jan 25th, 2003, 08:18 PM
I agree that it is really not a good quality of tennis. Its very much predictable who will win the next game.
Most of the time, I just see sisterly love specially from Venus.
BUT its not their fault that they are sisters, you cannot take away it from them.

harloo
Jan 25th, 2003, 08:29 PM
I find that alot of matches on the women's side are boring especially when their are alot of unforced errors and NO WINNERS AT ALL. I guess it depends on who you like and HATE. However, noone has a right to tell someone that they are not a fan of tennis. Who in the hell made you some type of TENNIS GOD? Please! Get over it! I have seen alot of finals, and they have not all lived up to their billing. Venus and Serena finals are not pretty all the time, but certainly everyone else on the tour doesn't do any better. LOL.

I do think this was one of the most intense matches between the sisters, but it can improve. I think it will one day. However, I know that won't satisfy some CRITICS. The thought of an all Williams final is discouraging to them for non quality reasons and they know it. They just can't admit it. LOL.

HAIL-VENUS
Jan 25th, 2003, 08:37 PM
I also think that the Wimbledon final first set was the best out of their match ups. This final (AO) was very competitive, but somewhat strained. I could just sense a lot of emotion and pressure, especially from Venus's side of the net. I think that was the main thing that kept the match from being more dramatic. It certainly had the potential to be more thrilling had either of them come in more and forced the other to come up with some amazing passing shots. I think that avoiding each other is not the answer. I think that they should play a few more smaller tournaments together where they'd possibly meet in the finals, and then the quality would probably become much more exciting.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 25th, 2003, 08:39 PM
Since we're talking about shit quality matches - defining these as matches with a ridiculous amount of errors - just thought that I would throw in that I find Jenn vs Serena matches to be among the most ugly :eek:

Sure, they are highly competitive, and usually go three sets. But they are ugly, ugly, ugly - by the terms that were described in the initial post anyhow - errors, errors, and more errors *sigh*

Sorry for going off track ;)

Flappie
Jan 25th, 2003, 08:43 PM
The way Venus and Serena play is not really tennis, its more atlethism and strenght. Some ppl like it, some dont. But the Oz Open final was HORRIBLE! :eek: For actual tennis-fans is was boring to watch it.

Ma. Estefania
Jan 25th, 2003, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by ktwtennis
Sure, they're at the top of the game, but really we had much more quality of tennis back in the day of Hingis, Davenport, Seles, Graf, etc.

I tooootally agree.:o

Ma. Estefania
Jan 25th, 2003, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by Tennis Fool
Hingis isn't always a tennis player. Just some psuedo Swiss kid with a bad attitude (Her loss to Dokic and VRP at Wimbledon, among many other "subpar matches).

Get real.

Well, now I understand the "why" of your username.:rolleyes:

ptkten
Jan 25th, 2003, 08:53 PM
That's great that you guys think the Williams matches are ugly but then why don't you criticize any of the other matches between power players..for example the semi between Kim and Serena was just as ugly imo. Any time two power players play each other, it is equally ugly save for the times when they are both on, so i don't see why it only comes up when the Williams sisters play each other.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 25th, 2003, 08:54 PM
I'd like to know where the book on what REAL tennis is anyhow?

When we say it's not REAL, do we mean that it's not REAL, like how it was when Court won the grand slam?

Shouldn't we really attack the root of the "problem" here - that they don't play with REAL racquets?

Crazy Canuck
Jan 25th, 2003, 08:55 PM
That's great that you guys think the Williams matches are ugly but then why don't you criticize any of the other matches between power players..for example the semi between Kim and Serena was just as ugly imo. Any time two power players play each other, it is equally ugly save for the times when they are both on, so i don't see why it only comes up when the Williams sisters play each other.



Well I never called the Williams matches "ugly" - but there certaintly was another example of an "ugly" match -

Jenn and Serena *shudders*

Flappie
Jan 25th, 2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by ptkten
so i don't see why it only comes up when the Williams sisters play each other. Thats coz the are the best at power tennis :) And when they play other opponents its always slighty different than when you see two the exact same players playing each other.

Crazy Canuck
Jan 25th, 2003, 09:01 PM
Venus and Serena are exactly the same player?

Who knew :o

Flappie
Jan 25th, 2003, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by Rebecca
Venus and Serena are exactly the same player?

Who knew :o LOL:D I meant that their playing style is almost exactly the same! :p

Crazy Canuck
Jan 25th, 2003, 09:55 PM
I'm just ankle biting.

But as I brought up a couple times - that's why I don't like Serena vs Jenn. imo, that match up is far worse :o

The only thing that I don't like about the Venus vs Serena matches is how subdued the crowd is - like they don't know who to cheer for, or something.

I like an "atmosphere"! Either than that, I have no beef with their matches.

tennischick
Jan 25th, 2003, 10:01 PM
Rebecca:
the crowd's reaction is also reflected on this board IMO. i have no difficulty celebrating Serena's accomplishment but some folks seem to be more subdued. if Serena had beaten anyone else in the finals, this board would have been awash with celebratory threads. bec she beat her sister, some are feeling too badly to party. a problem i do not have one bit! http://boitagifs.free.fr/images/personnages/dance5.gif

i thought it was a great match by the way.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 25th, 2003, 10:17 PM
Tennis can be boring when it's just baseline rallies until someone makes an error. A lot of the match was like that. But it still had enormous drama, was evenly fought (though Venus always looked more vulnerable on serve) and was an enthralling match as it unfolded. Also, in the sisters' defence, they got back shots that would have been winners against many opponents. It is difficult to make clean winners against either Venus or Serena.

I am still cheering against the sisters and hoping for competition at the top and less predictability. I'm hoping that JenCap can get everything together, that Kim and Amelie can play at their peak and prove that they are two players who really can mix it with the sisters. I'm hoping that Marti will come back fully restored and better than ever and that Monica will produce some last great matches against Venus and Serena before she retires. Also that Lindsay will soon be back to her peak. I want Dani and Juju to continue to improve, and hope that Jelena and some others are better than I think they are... and that some new challengers will come out of the pack. To me, this would all be great for women's tennis.

In other words, I don't want Williams domination.

BUT, let's give the sisters credit for their tennis and their achievements. Some of the criticisms are starting to sound old, lame and desperate.