PDA

View Full Version : Let's talk about the Kvitova-Sharapova rivalry.


dsanders06
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:41 PM
One last thread to get us through the dying embers of the off-season :wavey:

Let's be honest, this time 12 months ago, a lot of us (myself included) thought Maria would really struggle with Kvitova. Why exactly did the match-up pan out the way it did in 2012? Is it because it's actually a good match-up for Maria? Was it just Petra messing it up and/or playing shit those days? And what will happen in their matches in 2013? Will Maria sustain her advantage over her? Or will Petra turn the tables? Might Maria even welcome Petra to the "Multi-Slam Winners Club"? Will David Kotyza again say he'd rather Petra draws Serena rather than Maria? :oh:

Discuss.

JarkaFish
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:43 PM
Sharapova has the drive/determination and Kvitova doesn't, thus she's winning all their matches now.

Crunchy Booboo
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:43 PM
Because Petra got fat and sloppy while Maria improved her footwork & speed.

MashaAzarenka
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:44 PM
I think Maria figured out how to play Petra. The matchups are always close though so you never know what will happen in 2013. Absolutely love their rivalry though

Cosmic Voices
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:46 PM
I think Maria figured out how to play Petra. The matchups are always close though so you never know what will happen in 2013. Absolutely love their rivalry though

this!

swissmr
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:48 PM
Sharapova has the drive/determination and Kvitova doesn't, thus she's winning all their matches now.

Pretty much this. I really though Petra was ready to dominate in 2012 after her amazing 2011 season but seems like instead of it inspiring her to work harder over the off season she slacked off. I hope she's back to her best in 2013 because her game is so impressive when it's on.

That said I still think even 2012 standard Maria would win her fair share of matches vs peak Kvitova, and she definitely has the edge on clay. Plus, I think all Maria fans are hoping she will continue to improve even more this year...

caros defender
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:49 PM
Petra has more variety, and more game overall, but Sharapova is WAY more mentally tough.

sweetadri06
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:52 PM
It's not that Petra doesn't have the game to stay with or beat Maria, it's her motivation, fitness and drive which is stopping her from going to the next level. If all those things come together she can beat anybody. I think everyone will agree with that. This is what separates great players from pretenders.

Vincey!
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:53 PM
Maria had the edge in 2012 because she fought harder and improved her movement. That's how she won the AO SF match. Then on their other matches of the season Petra started to be a bit off and mentally weaker agaisnt Maria. SO I'd say is a mix of Maria figuring out how to play Kvitova and Petra being more erratic than her Wimbledon 2011 from.

Alejandrawrrr
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:53 PM
Sharapova has the drive/determination and Kvitova doesn't, thus she's winning all their matches now.

Essentially this. It's not really something technical or mechanical for me, more intangible. A bit like how I often felt about Sharapova-Davenport. Two slow huge flat hitters, they can go blow for blow off the ground but when it comes down to the wire Petra and Lindsay always had something missing in terms of the fire or killer instinct. They can get away with it frequently, but when up against someone like Sharapova who has it in spades it's always exposed. Look at what happened in Stuttgart. You simply don't have a chance with ghastly break point conversions like Petra had in that match. If you don't have the killer instinct and ability to take your chances as soon as you get them like Serena and Vika have, and Justine had when she was on tour you might as well not step on the court against Martha if she's playing decent tennis.

A shame, the way Petra outclassed Sharapova in the Wimbledon final had me thinking she would really live up to my expectations of her, but in hindsight all Maria really needed to do to win that one was probably bring it to a third set :shrug:

bobito
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:54 PM
Last year it all came down to Kvitova's break point conversion, which was abysmal against Sharapova. Strange because this is something a lefty should have the advantage in. If she can put that right then it could well swing Petra's way again. You have to give credit to Sharapova though, she played a lot of those break points extremely well.

MashaAzarenka
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:54 PM
I really think Petra could be a multiple grand slam winner. Her fitness level and drive has really put her at a road block though.

Alejandrawrrr
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:59 PM
For what it's worth though, Sharapova typically does very well against one dimensional players(all out offense or all out defense.) It's the aforementioned players like Serena, Vika, Justine, Amelie and Kim(?) who can give her trouble. You have to have great defense AND offense and a little something special to make her uncomfortable. She slays Petra, Lindsay, Ana(IIRC) on the offensive end of the spectrum, and Wozniacki, Jankovic, Radwanska(when playing well anyway) on the defensive end. Of course mental resilience is the #1 thing. In light of this, I find Petra to be in a tough situation here. She has a good slice and can handle herself at the net, so she COULD in theory put herself in the group of players who perform well against Sharapova, but I just don't think she has the determination to develop these aspects of her game into true weapons. She could be a force if she does.

The Dawntreader
Dec 29th, 2012, 11:06 PM
He never stops.

iWill
Dec 29th, 2012, 11:16 PM
From watching their matchups I think Maria clearly has the advantage the next time the two play. I think Maria has her figured out for the most part and it will be an uphill battle for Kvitova to win.

Petra lost her fitness and I think that was a big part of her problem against all of the top players in 2012. If she gets fit she has a much better chance against Maria. The H2H makes me think Maria hasn't forgotten that loss at Wimbledon and with her play style she can go out and dictate enough against Petra to win consistently. I also believe that Kvitova has the potential to win another slam but if she is going to do that she has to get back to that 2011 form.

Stonerpova
Dec 29th, 2012, 11:17 PM
The AO SF was the turning point. Kvitova couldn't finish it off, and Maria, being more consistent, seized the momentum in their matches since.

The Daviator
Dec 29th, 2012, 11:17 PM
Maria saved a ridiculous number of BPs in the AO and Stuttgart matches, which took its toll on Petra mentally, but those matches really were on a knife-edge. RG was a whitewash for Maria.

As mentioned, unless totally dialled in, Maria tends not to get overwhelmed by slow, aggressive types. Extending the rally, being able grind her down AND having an offensive game are the key ingredients in consistently having success against her. Petra will always be a first-strike player, so she needs to be really on to take out Maria.

effedcamel
Dec 29th, 2012, 11:19 PM
For what it's worth though, Sharapova typically does very well against one dimensional players(all out offense or all out defense.) It's the aforementioned players like Serena, Vika, Justine, Amelie and Kim(?) who can give her trouble. You have to have great defense AND offense and a little something special to make her uncomfortable. She slays Petra, Lindsay, Ana(IIRC) on the offensive end of the spectrum, and Wozniacki, Jankovic, Radwanska(when playing well anyway) on the defensive end. Of course mental resilience is the #1 thing. In light of this, I find Petra to be in a tough situation here. She has a good slice and can handle herself at the net, so she COULD in theory put herself in the group of players who perform well against Sharapova, but I just don't think she has the determination to develop these aspects of her game into true weapons. She could be a force if she does.

I think the one thing stopping Petra from being in that group is her movement. She's never going to have the combination of movement, defense and offense that the other women you listed do, so Maria has something she can continue to exploit.

dsanders06
Dec 29th, 2012, 11:30 PM
I agree with some points raised, but I think something that hasn't been mentioned yet is that, imo, Maria's return neutralises one of Petra's big strengths. Petra's serve is pretty much Maria's favourite to return: it has enough pace on it so that she doesn't have to reach for it (Maria can often get caught out by puffball serves like Radwanska), but it's not so explosively fast that Maria can't have a decent swing at it. It's the placement of Petra's serve that makes it so tricky for most players to handle, but Maria with her huge wingspan isn't bothered by it like most are.

Other than that, I really don't think there's many technical aspects that make this a really good match-up for Maria. I agree a lot of it is Maria having a psychological advantage over her: imo, that AO SF really shook Petra, because I think she kind of went into it believing her hype and really believing that, if she was really focussed and playing her best, no-one could beat her -- most of the matches she'd lost in 2011 had been ones where she hadn't shown up at all and/or not been focussed at all, but then at the end of 2011, she'd started digging in and scraping out gritty 3-set wins all the time. In a way, I think that AO SF was the first time Petra had been beaten in a battle of willpower, and judging by how atrocious she was for nearly 3 months following, I think she did have a bit of a reaction.

But, assuming she shakes that mental baggage, I think she should be able to acquit herself against Maria much better than in 2012. Petra is definitely still a strong favourite on grass, and I wouldn't be surprised if she snuck in a win or two over Maria on hardcourts. If pushed, I'd probably predict Maria to overall have a slight edge in their 2013 headtohead.

bandabou
Dec 29th, 2012, 11:34 PM
Now THIS a match-up worth discussing. I think Masha vs Petra is pretty much Masha vs Lindsay.

Petra is a slow, first-strike player with iffy mentality. And those are things that are gonna doom her on any slow-surface. The faster the surface, then a totally locked in Petra might just blow Masha off the ground, but if the rally is longer than 4-shots, then it becomes advantage Masha.

Plus Petra has to show me she can hang with Masha mentally first.

dsanders06
Dec 29th, 2012, 11:35 PM
Oh, one last thing: I actually don't agree with the people who say Petra isn't driven. Imo, she TOTALLY wants success and wants to be a dominant champion. I definitely see a lot more inner fire and relishing of a battle from her, when she's in full-on "Pojd!" mode, than I ever saw from Davenport. It's certainly true that she seemingly lacks the work ethic and self-discipline off the court (with regards to practise, keeping in shape, etc.), but I think that's different to competitive spirit and will to win when you're actually in the matches themselves -- as Serena Williams at various times of her career showed.

MashaAzarenka
Dec 29th, 2012, 11:39 PM
I think Petra is very fragile mentally. When things aren't going her way, she gets down on herself and her form gets worse. I think she needs to pull a Vika if she wants to get back to her top level. Vika disciplined herself and brings much more positive energy to the court now. If Petra can do that, and work on her fitness, she'll be back!

Jack.
Dec 29th, 2012, 11:43 PM
Wait til 2013 is over, then we'll see if there is a rivalry.
An btw does 4 proper matches against one another count as a rivalry? :confused: (FO,Stuttgart,AO + Wimbledon) Cause IMO Memphis was pre-kvittygoat and doesnt count.

Cosmic Voices
Dec 29th, 2012, 11:46 PM
Wait til 2013 is over, then we'll see if there is a rivalry.
An btw does 4 proper matches against one another count as a rivalry? :confused: (FO,Stuttgart,AO + Wimbledon) Cause IMO Memphis was pre-kvittygoat and doesnt count.

urm I suppose
but all of those recent matches were highly important

Wimbledon Final
French Open SF - which lead to Masha's career slam
Stuttgart - Indoor GOAT vs Clay competitor
AO SF - 3 set nail biter


they've never really had a regular match tbh

madmax
Dec 29th, 2012, 11:54 PM
He never stops.

uh, somebody's wet dream of KvittyGOAT's overwhelming domination is falling apart:lol:
Is she still "much more" talented than Sharapova anyway?

JoPova
Dec 30th, 2012, 12:01 AM
I think they'll have a great competitive rivalry! Can't wait for their following matches! I love them both!

JarkaFish
Dec 30th, 2012, 12:02 AM
uh, somebody's wet dream of KvittyGOAT's overwhelming domination is falling apart:lol:
Is she still "much more" talented than Sharapova anyway?

Is their any doubt? :confused:

MrProdigy555
Dec 30th, 2012, 12:03 AM
Maria doesn't have her "figured out" in my opinion. Kvitova's game is just a mess more times than not. When you play truly elite players you can't give away as many points as Kvitova does.

madmax
Dec 30th, 2012, 12:05 AM
Is their any doubt? :confused:

define "talent" please...
(this will be good I reckon):lol:

Cosmic Voices
Dec 30th, 2012, 12:05 AM
Is their any doubt? :confused:

I'd say, when Petra is on she has a much more accomplished game. She can volley beautifully,
but hitting with precision - which Masha bases her whole game one - is a skill in itself. I wouldn't call Masha a bb basically because of the fact she can paint the lines time and time again, whilst Petra has the ability to switch to a 'B' game. Both are individually talented, but Petra hasn't utilised her talent as well as Masha has - time will tell I guess

powerpuff27
Dec 30th, 2012, 12:17 AM
Boring. Kvitova has become a non factor and has no intersting rivalries with any of the top players right now. She needs to step it up to create a real rivalry with even Sharapova at this point.

Roookie
Dec 30th, 2012, 12:38 AM
What rivalry?

centipede
Dec 30th, 2012, 12:54 AM
You guys are so funny. I just can't. Sharapova got the best of Kvitova in 2012 because that was a good year for Sharapova and a bad year for Kvitova. The rivalry is just starting.

What part of this are we have trouble with?

If Kvitova had faced Sharapova more times in 2011, she would have probably won. I.E YEC/Madrid because it was a better year for Petra.

Henin beat Serena 3-1 in 2007. Does that mean she "owned" her? How about we let things pan out before we start over analyzing a small sample of matches that benefit in Sharapova's favor because of a stronger season.

powerpuff27
Dec 30th, 2012, 12:57 AM
Petra is fat, lazy, makes ton of unforced errors, and is weak mentally. That fortells alot of bad years if one considers 2011 a bad year for her. In her best year ever she couldnt even beat out a slumping Wozniacki for the year end #1, what does that say about her abilities.

JarkaFish
Dec 30th, 2012, 01:01 AM
You guys are so funny. I just can't. Sharapova got the best of Kvitova in 2012 because that was a good year for Sharapova and a bad year for Kvitova. The rivalry is just starting.

What part of this are we have trouble with?

If Kvitova had faced Sharapova more times in 2011, she would have probably won. I.E YEC/Madrid because it was a better year for Petra.

Henin beat Serena 3-1 in 2007. Does that mean she "owned" her? How about we let things pan out before we start over analyzing a small sample of matches that benefit in Sharapova's favor because of a stronger season.

Yes? :shrug:

centipede
Dec 30th, 2012, 01:14 AM
Yes? :shrug:

You're missing the point hun. I'm talking about the h2h as a whole. Not taking a sample of matches that henin won then saying she owned the rivalry when, in fact, she lost the overall h2h.

JarkaFish
Dec 30th, 2012, 01:19 AM
You're missing the point hun. I'm talking about the h2h as a whole. Not taking a sample of matches that henin won then saying she owned the rivalry when, in fact, she lost the overall h2h.

Maria owned Kvitova this year, accept it hun.

Yeah, things may change in the future but for now Pova has the upper hand in this so called "rivalry", and that's what this thread is about. If that makes you uncomfortable than don't post in it.

:wavey:

MashaAzarenka
Dec 30th, 2012, 01:23 AM
You guys are so funny. I just can't. Sharapova got the best of Kvitova in 2012 because that was a good year for Sharapova and a bad year for Kvitova. The rivalry is just starting.

What part of this are we have trouble with?

If Kvitova had faced Sharapova more times in 2011, she would have probably won. I.E YEC/Madrid because it was a better year for Petra.

Henin beat Serena 3-1 in 2007. Does that mean she "owned" her? How about we let things pan out before we start over analyzing a small sample of matches that benefit in Sharapova's favor because of a stronger season.

This isn't about what could have happened. This is about what DID happen.

Brad[le]y.
Dec 30th, 2012, 01:24 AM
Maria is mentally tougher, moves better, is more consistent off the ground, and can hit a heavy enough ball to force Petra out of her comfort zone; it's just a bad matchup for her IMO. Petra needs a perfect day in order to beat her.

centipede
Dec 30th, 2012, 01:28 AM
Maria owned Kvitova this year, accept it hun.

Yeah, things may change in the future but for now Pova has the upper hand in this so called "rivalry".

?Owned? as in beat her in one match convincingly? Why use the term "owned"? Sharapova is a great player, there is no need to be so defensive over an idea that interferes with your fantasy of Sharapova being a superior match up against Kvitova.

Dominic
Dec 30th, 2012, 02:12 AM
?Owned? as in beat her in one match convincingly? Why use the term "owned"? Sharapova is a great player, there is no need to be so defensive over an idea that interferes with your fantasy of Sharapova being a superior match up against Kvitova.

I gotta agree there. Most their matches were very close and interesting. I think this could be a great rivalry!

Lucyxx
Dec 30th, 2012, 04:29 AM
They've met quite a bit over the last three years.

Maria has shown she can play Petra tough on all surfaces.

Maria had to retire in her only loss to Petra on Hard, so I think MashaS really has a lot going for her mentally if she were to look back on this rivalry going into the Asia/Pacific hard court swing.

HRHoliviasmith
Dec 30th, 2012, 04:46 AM
Because Petra got fat and sloppy while Maria improved her footwork & speed.

basically.

NashaMasha
Dec 30th, 2012, 05:39 AM
?Owned? as in beat her in one match convincingly? Why use the term "owned"? Sharapova is a great player, there is no need to be so defensive over an idea that interferes with your fantasy of Sharapova being a superior match up against Kvitova.

Sharapova made in 2012 an impression that Petra is a non-factor . At YEC if Petra hadn't caught this illness, Masha would have demolished her and made this rivalry more like "what a rivalry?....."

Masha has improved her game since Wimbledon 2011 , Petra - not

jameshazza
Dec 30th, 2012, 05:57 AM
Mainly Petra's work ethic isn't allowing her to play to her potential as most has said but even at that it's her lack of killer instinct that will always cost her tight matches vs. a Maria/Serena playing well or not.
Anyway, it's clear there's now a mental block there for Petra. Even though it could be detrimental for Maria if Petra overcomes this, I hope she does. I need this rivalry to happen.

Dominic
Dec 30th, 2012, 06:24 AM
Petra in good form cant even handle Sharapova, the same Sharapova who Serena kills from a wheelchair at will, so how on earth can one compare the two.

Serena always plays much better against Maria than against Petra.

ShiftyFella
Dec 30th, 2012, 06:25 AM
for me there's no rivalry going on. Petra flopped in AO from this point she just gave up, also lack of fitness due to injuries and illness. this year can prove is there rivalry or not, since both players healthy enough to exclude any excuses and meeting in SF\F would mean they both play decent enough to be there

powerpuff27
Dec 30th, 2012, 06:37 AM
Serena always plays much better against Maria than against Petra.

Yes you are right on that I agree. She always gets zoned and plays her A+ game against poor Maria for whatever reason (matchup, personal motivation, psychology that stems from past matches, whatever). However wouldnt that also make Petra even weaker in the sense that Serena isnt really zoning against her when they play like she does some others, and she still hasnt won a set yet. Serena doesnt feel she has to play with extra intensity and focus vs Petra like she does when she plays Maria.

BTW my comment was in the wrong thread, I meant to put my last post in the Serena vs Kvitova thread. My bad. Obviously my comment didnt make much sense anyway in a Maria vs Petra comparision, but anyway now on the real topic at hand Maria has only lost to Petra once, it was on grass, and it was Petra playing her best and Maria playing at best average tennis for her standards, even keeping in mind grass isnt a great surface for her at this stage of her career. Petra had all kinds of chances to win the Australian Open match but wasnt tough enough, was well beaten their next match, and was even overpowered and outwinnered in their French Open match, so each match they play it seems to be getting worse an worse for her of late. I would like to see a good rivalry between them but right now it doesnt exist. Petra is not on the level of Serena, Azarenka, or Sharapova right now, regardless her good head to head with Azarenka. Will she change that in 2013. Lets hope so for the sake of the womens game, but I have my doubts.

oneshot
Dec 30th, 2012, 11:33 AM
She doesn't have the intensity to keep up with Sharapova. I agree with the poster who said that all Maria needed to while playing her subpar grass tennis in that Wimbledon final was take it to a 3rd set in an ugly fashion and the title would be hers.

The Davenport comparison is spot on. These players are not the ones that trouble Sharapova. She quite enjoys being challenged by big hitters. It's the pushers who drive her crazy (Wozniacki and Radwanska in particular). Match-up wise, Sharapova's best return is from her backhand so any lefty-serve advantage Kvitova has against other players is neutralized here. Same logic applies to Petra hitting her best shot, the FH CC, to that wing. Maria also moves much better and hits just as hard as Petra. Also, Petra is not a good returner, and all it takes is Maria on a good serving day to put her way ahead of Petra, regardless of the conditions.

Break My Rapture
Dec 30th, 2012, 12:29 PM
For what it's worth though, Sharapova typically does very well against one dimensional players(all out offense or all out defense.) It's the aforementioned players like Serena, Vika, Justine, Amelie and Kim(?) who can give her trouble. You have to have great defense AND offense and a little something special to make her uncomfortable. She slays Petra, Lindsay, Ana(IIRC) on the offensive end of the spectrum, and Wozniacki, Jankovic, Radwanska(when playing well anyway) on the defensive end. Of course mental resilience is the #1 thing. In light of this, I find Petra to be in a tough situation here. She has a good slice and can handle herself at the net, so she COULD in theory put herself in the group of players who perform well against Sharapova, but I just don't think she has the determination to develop these aspects of her game into true weapons. She could be a force if she does.
I agree, Kvitova's lefty serve also causes trouble for Maria I'd say. She's not that good at returning it, nor particularly smart when returning it because she returns nearly every serve cross-court on the Ad-court and right into Kvitty's FH.

That said, I think that Maria realises that as long as she serves well enough and redirects Kvitty's shots well enough, she'll probably come out as the winner. It helps that Petra's conditioning isn't up to snuff too.

StoneRose
Dec 30th, 2012, 12:44 PM
Rivalry is non existent atm. Petra needs to get back to 2011 form before any conclusions can be drawn. AO 2012 where Petra played ok is maybe an indication that Maria can handle her even then.