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View Full Version : How would Azarenka have matched up against Venus?


dsanders06
Dec 29th, 2012, 03:00 PM
I genuinely think this match-up would be a LOT more fruitful for Azarenka than one against Henin.

As we all know, Peak Venus's game was ALL about raw power, and she didn't typically mix up the placement of her shots that much -- imo, this would play into Azarenka's hands, because, as we discussed in that thread a few weeks ago, Azarenka really is GREAT at scooping back even the most POWERFUL shots that land within her reach -- we all know Venus wouldn't be able to employ the gameplan Serena does when she plays Azarenka of using more crosscourt angles and really yanking Azarenka side-to-side and exposing her still-surprisingly-mediocre movement.

Obviously Venus on her very BEST days would win, if she was really feeling the ball and landing all her shots, but imo, even in Venus's best seasons of 2000-01, Azarenka would have won her fair share of matches against her, because Venus even at 70% probably would've lost to her. If she was just a little bit off, then I could just see the matches playing out like the Azarenka-vs.-subpar Sharapova matches -- Venus blasting the ball down the middle of the court, Azarenka getting back all of Venus's shots to a decent length, Venus getting frustrated that even her most powerful of shots aren't getting the job done, until she surrenders a UE.

For me, what's instructive is their 2010 Dubai match -- this is ALWAYS cited as one of Venus's best matches of recent years, and yet, even as exceptionally well as Venus played, a well-below-peak Azarenka made it a real contest:

DpkRM4NcygI

Discuss.

Serena_Williams_
Dec 29th, 2012, 03:09 PM
It would be in Azarenka's favour on slow HCs for sure even tho Venus would win something there too.However i tend to believe that Venus would be able to find a way to beat Vika on a consistent basis despite that you decribed Venus' game of not mixing the power well enough like Serena.Azarenka might be a great pace absorber but Venus' would still be i think a bit too much to handle.That doesn't mean they would not have competitve matches on all types of HCs and clay.(Grass is obvious). :)

NashaMasha
Dec 29th, 2012, 03:20 PM
Venus on grass, decoturf and even clay would have beaten her pretty easy. Azarenka on plexipave /plexicushion/ laykold , on all this slow shit will be competitive

The Dawntreader
Dec 29th, 2012, 03:34 PM
Venus, everywhere, easily,

dsanders06
Dec 29th, 2012, 03:37 PM
Venus, everywhere, easily,

Even though it was anything but easy in their last match, when Venus was by any measure much closer to her peak than Azarenka?

The Dawntreader
Dec 29th, 2012, 03:39 PM
Even though it was anything but easy in their last match, when Venus was by any measure much closer to her peak than Azarenka?

I stand by what I wrote. And '10 Venus was not peak Venus.

In The Zone
Dec 29th, 2012, 03:50 PM
It's about matchups and Venus would eat Azarenka for breakfast, lunch, and dinner - just like she has in their matches.

Petra_Fan
Dec 29th, 2012, 03:52 PM
cannot wait to see these 2 play in 2013 it could be a real site to see, both playing well. It could be one of the matches of the year. Bring it on!

Matt01
Dec 29th, 2012, 04:09 PM
cannot wait to see these 2 play in 2013 it could be a real site to see, both playing well. It could be one of the matches of the year. Bring it on!


I don't think Venus will make it far enough to even meet Vika but that's just my personal opinion...

skanky~skanketta
Dec 29th, 2012, 05:08 PM
First of all, ROTF @ the notion that 2010 Venus was closer to her peak than Azarenka was to hers.
Second, Venus had a full repertoire of shots to wipe the floor clean with Azarenka.

If we're talking about peaks, it's absolutely no contest on all surfaces except rebound ace, where it would be tight with Venus still winning.
The only shot of Venus that could have broken down even at her peak, was her FH, which was still ferocious. Unfortunately, Azarenka's FH is nothing to write home about either.
Venus only ever had trouble with players who had a good offensive and defensive game. Davenport and Hingis were other players who also troubled Venus, but their games were something special (Davenport with the cleanest strokes ever and Hingis with her wily ways).

But that's the nature of life, the old will decline while the young will rise, so we will never really know.

It's baffling to see how people quickly forget just how good Venus really was back in the day.

miffedmax
Dec 29th, 2012, 05:13 PM
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/PRAISE_5c2adb_700320.jpg

The season has started.

RenaPova
Dec 29th, 2012, 05:18 PM
Venus would be beat her by closing the net. :shrug:

heavyhorse
Dec 29th, 2012, 05:20 PM
I stand by what I wrote. And '10 Venus was not peak Venus.

:lol: Exactly. It's about 10 years away from her actual peak so uhh no I'd say Azarenka was closer.

Don't get me wrong though, Venus was in great form in 2010. Just mentally crippled.

And Venus would win over Azarenka in all surfaces including slow hard.

heavyhorse
Dec 29th, 2012, 05:24 PM
but imo, even in Venus's best seasons of 2000-01, Azarenka would have won her fair share of matches against her


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

:help:

powerpuff27
Dec 29th, 2012, 05:24 PM
The only surface the matches might be close are slow hard courts, like rebound ace or plexicushion. Even then Venus on her best day, like her 2000 Olympics or 2003 Australian Open form, would crush Azarenka, but she wasnt consistently in that form even in her prime on those courts. On clay, grass, decoturf, or carpet, she would spank Azarenka practically each time out.

lloyders76
Dec 29th, 2012, 05:28 PM
Even though it was anything but easy in their last match, when Venus was by any measure much closer to her peak than Azarenka?

by any measure? how about the fact that venus was 2 years from her last slam, azarenka was 2 years from her 1st, there's one measure of the top of my head which contradicts you

Viktymise
Dec 29th, 2012, 05:46 PM
even in Venus's best seasons of 2000-01, Azarenka would have won her fair share of matches against her

Stopped reading there.

dsanders06
Dec 29th, 2012, 06:23 PM
I'm confused. A few days ago, when I said Venus's best non-grass matches since 2003 were her defeats to the Belgians at the US Open, I was hysterically shouted down by Venus fans and told that this Dubai match against Vika was her best match since 2003 -- by some of the very same people who now in this thread are saying Venus was nowhere remotely close to her peak form in this match. :scratch:

by any measure? how about the fact that venus was 2 years from her last slam, azarenka was 2 years from her 1st, there's one measure of the top of my head which contradicts you

In this match specifically. As said, this is by common consent one of Venus's best matches in the past 8 years, whereas for Azarenka, this was an unremarkable match in her worst season since 2008. And yet it was close.

Vincey!
Dec 29th, 2012, 06:31 PM
Venus would win easily on grass and probably on Clay as well. We'd get great matches on HC tho, and Azarenka would probably win a few matches on slow HC.

In The Zone
Dec 29th, 2012, 06:35 PM
I'm confused. A few days ago, when I said Venus's best non-grass matches since 2003 were her defeats to the Belgians at the US Open, I was hysterically shouted down by Venus fans and told that this Dubai match against Vika was her best match since 2003 -- by some of the very same people who now in this thread are saying Venus was nowhere remotely close to her peak form in this match. :scratch:



In this match specifically. As said, this is by common consent one of Venus's best matches in the past 8 years, whereas for Azarenka, this was an unremarkable match in her worst season since 2008. And yet it was close.

Oh my goodness. Talk about spinning things and incredible bias. This entire post is crap.

rjd1111
Dec 29th, 2012, 06:37 PM
I genuinely think this match-up would be a LOT more fruitful for Azarenka than one against Henin.

As we all know, Peak Venus's game was ALL about raw power, and she didn't typically mix up the placement of her shots that much -- imo, this would play into Azarenka's hands, because, as we discussed in that thread a few weeks ago, Azarenka really is GREAT at scooping back even the most POWERFUL shots that land within her reach -- we all know Venus wouldn't be able to employ the gameplan Serena does when she plays Azarenka of using more crosscourt angles and really yanking Azarenka side-to-side and exposing her still-surprisingly-mediocre movement.

Obviously Venus on her very BEST days would win, if she was really feeling the ball and landing all her shots, but imo, even in Venus's best seasons of 2000-01, Azarenka would have won her fair share of matches against her, because Venus even at 70% probably would've lost to her. If she was just a little bit off, then I could just see the matches playing out like the Azarenka-vs.-subpar Sharapova matches -- Venus blasting the ball down the middle of the court, Azarenka getting back all of Venus's shots to a decent length, Venus getting frustrated that even her most powerful of shots aren't getting the job done, until she surrenders a UE.

For me, what's instructive is their 2010 Dubai match -- this is ALWAYS cited as one of Venus's best matches of recent years, and yet, even as exceptionally well as Venus played, a well-below-peak Azarenka made it a real contest:

DpkRM4NcygI

Discuss.

Aza did not look " well-below-peak " to me.

Queen_Vee_92
Dec 29th, 2012, 06:38 PM
Venus of 2008 and before would beat THIS Azarenka on all surfaces except the slowest harcourts.

Her overall game is too explosive and athletic for Azarenka to handle on fast surfaces, and despite the OP correctly mentioning her uncanny ability to deflect pace back, Venus' serve (which Azarenka has always found tougher to read and handle) would put too much pressure on Vika's own serve which can still be weak in pressure situations. On the slowest hardcourts Venus would be forced into too many shots and lose most times even in Peak mode but i think it'd still be close about 60/40 Azarenka.

On clay, despite it being an average surface for Venus, i think her general movement is so good that she manages to expose Azarenka's lack of great movement on the surface compared to hardcourts and she wins most of these encounters as well.

As others have suggested though could have made for a very interesting and high quality rivalry when both play well, and if the two meet this year i still hold out hope for a close fought match with Vika as clear favorite fighting to get her first win against Vee.

Olórin
Dec 29th, 2012, 06:45 PM
And yet it was close.

Close matches are ones where the opponent wins a set, or at least has a set point, or perhaps stays even until the end of the set in both sets. None of those things happened in this match. You're confusing "competitive" with "close".

Petra_Fan
Dec 29th, 2012, 06:46 PM
I still can;t believe you guys are writing Venus off, she can STILL beat Azarenka! She had a decent 2012 and you have to look at the big picture, beginning of 2012 she was out of top 120, by end of 2012 she is 24 in the world. NEVER count Venus Williams out, she will be hungry for success and to win a slam, which she can do.

Maddox
Dec 29th, 2012, 06:47 PM
Dsanders, enough! How many Venus threads do you have to make :o

powerpuff27
Dec 29th, 2012, 06:47 PM
I am trying to think of a player similar to Azarenka who prime Venus had trouble with but I cant. Hingis is not similar at all to Azarenka really.

Break My Rapture
Dec 29th, 2012, 06:49 PM
This isn't really a hypothetical question because they played at least twice as far as I can remember. :lol:

bandabou
Dec 29th, 2012, 06:53 PM
Good question. I think the slower the surface, the better Azarenka's chances get...as with anybody against Venus.
I don't think Azarenka retrieves well enough to beat Vee on faster surfaces.

bandabou
Dec 29th, 2012, 06:55 PM
:lol: And douchesanders keeps taking shots at Vee, it ain't even funny anymore.

And then they say we're the ones obsessed with MashaTasha?! What we DO know is how Azarenka matches up against MASHA...:lol:

powerpuff27
Dec 29th, 2012, 06:55 PM
Good question. I think the slower the surface, the better Azarenka's chances get...as with anybody against Venus.
I don't think Azarenka retrieves well enough to beat Vee on faster surfaces.

The only problem is Azarenka herself is not a good clay courter, so even that doesnt help her against Venus like it does most people. Which is why it only leaves slow hard courts as her only real chance.

NashaMasha
Dec 29th, 2012, 07:22 PM
What we DO know is how Azarenka matches up against MASHA...:lol:

really? as far as i'm concerned you (in particular) DO NOT know how Azarenka matches up against Masha

bandabou
Dec 29th, 2012, 07:28 PM
really? as far as i'm concerned you (in particular) DO NOT know how Azarenka matches up against Masha

:lol: Well, 6 times played these year....and we all know how that went, no? :shrug:

bandabou
Dec 29th, 2012, 07:28 PM
The only problem is Azarenka herself is not a good clay courter, so even that doesnt help her against Venus like it does most people. Which is why it only leaves slow hard courts as her only real chance.

Yep..good point. Vika isn't a clay-GOAT, so even on clay Vee probably likes her chances.

moby
Dec 29th, 2012, 07:40 PM
I am trying to think of a player similar to Azarenka who prime Venus had trouble with but I cant. Hingis is not similar at all to Azarenka really.
Prime Venus would slay any version of Victoria, period. The question is mainly about the chances Victoria would have against a well-playing Venus.

The first question is, which are the not so fast players who have given Venus trouble. Unlike Serena, Venus can have trouble against slower players.
Some names: Lindsay, Pennetta, (maybe Legend).

The last two are not particularly fast, but they are nimble around the court, anticipate well, know how to work the ball and play from all parts of the court. That is what Azarenka would have to do if she wants to give Venus problems.

NashaMasha
Dec 29th, 2012, 07:45 PM
:lol: Well, 6 times played these year....and we all know how that went, no? :shrug:

and is far as i remember both times Masha won, you as well as the rest of Willitards were predicting "Vika in straight 6-2 6-3" or something like that :lol:

for instance one of Reetard's prediction before YEC SF

I'm wondering mentally where Sharapova is right now. She mentioned wanting "revenge" on a couple of players after her win today. To me that is the wrong mindset. If you go out there with that expectation knowing the capabilities of each player and you realize revenge isn't happening I think she mentally will fold. As she has done time and time again. She needs to be wanting to go out there and want games not revenge. Start with the basics and go from there. Azarenka 6-2 6-4

Reetards rooting for Vuvurenka are too vulnerable..... Vika is not a great player and will let down their delusional theories and hopes too often It's easy being cocky on this forum being SerenaFan , but it's different to be Vikatard , you'll learn it soon

dybbuk
Dec 29th, 2012, 07:46 PM
So Vika would have won her "fair share" of matches against Peak Penus in 2001, even though Henin, Seles, Davenport, Capriati, Clijsters and Serena couldn't at the time? Ok. I can't even stand Penus and I know that's a lie.

I guess it's a reasonable thought, after all, Venus only had to beat Clijsters, Capriati and Serena in consecutive rounds (in straight sets) to win her USO that year. It's not quite as much of an accomplishment as Radwanska, soon-to-retire Clijsters and post-shoulder surgery Sharapova. But alas, not everyone can deal with that tough of a draw.

bandabou
Dec 29th, 2012, 07:50 PM
and is far as i remember both times Masha won, you as well as the rest of Willitards were predicting "Vika in straight 6-2 6-3" or something like that :lol:

for instance one of Reetard's prediction before YEC SF



Reetards rooting for Vuvurenka are too vulnerable..... Vika is not a great player and will let down their delusional theories and hopes too often

Well...there was that Beijing-match, I guess that threw sands in our eyes?! :shrug:

Still, if even Masha can score some wins against Vika..certainly Vee shouldn't have much trouble I say.

NashaMasha
Dec 29th, 2012, 07:51 PM
Well...there was that Beijing-match, I guess that threw sands in our eyes?! :shrug:

Still, if even Masha can score some wins against Vika..certainly Vee shouldn't have much trouble I say.

at least something sensible in your posts

heavyhorse
Dec 29th, 2012, 07:57 PM
I was hysterically shouted down by Venus fans and told that this Dubai match against Vika was her best match since 2003

Who?

=dsanders06;22646426] As said, this is by common consent one of Venus's best matches in the past 8 years, whereas for Azarenka, this was an unremarkable match in her worst season since 2008. And yet it was close.

Um, is it? I would just consider it Venus in really good form... That's happened plenty of times since 2003 :confused::lol:

I mean, Venus is inconsistent but DAMN give the girl a break. THAT match was her best non-grass since 2003? Pretty harsh.

iWill
Dec 29th, 2012, 08:02 PM
Venus matches up pretty well with Azarenka. She would only have trouble on a slower surface but on clay she actually has a big advantage over Vika because Venus moves so well. Venus easily on grass but any HC match would be pretty competitive between the two.

I think Venus is favored because she can tee-off on some of Azarenka's serves but Azarenka is still very tough and would probably get a few wins against Venus, even when she wasn't supposed to.

LightWarrior
Dec 29th, 2012, 08:03 PM
This thread is premature. Venus is not retired.

dsanders06
Dec 29th, 2012, 08:09 PM
Prime Venus would slay any version of Victoria, period. The question is mainly about the chances Victoria would have against a well-playing Venus.

The first question is, which are the not so fast players who have given Venus trouble. Unlike Serena, Venus can have trouble against slower players.
Some names: Lindsay, Pennetta, (maybe Legend).

The last two are not particularly fast, but they are nimble around the court, anticipate well, know how to work the ball and play from all parts of the court. That is what Azarenka would have to do if she wants to give Venus problems.

Exactly, did I not acknowledge in my very first post that Venus in absolute peak form beats whatever Vika produces? :lol:

But even in Venus's best seasons, she was only in peak form about 20% of the time, at best. At the heart of people finding the question so preposterous (well, outside of the delusional Venus-stans who start flipping shit when you suggest anyone but Serena holds a candle to her) seems to be a misconception about Azarenka, that it's easy to overpower her. Again, simply throwing raw pace at her ISN'T in itself enough (unless you're absolutely treeing and landing everything), you need to be able to outmanouevre her. For me, the match-up WOULD be similar to Venus's one against Hingis -- and I'm not suggesting Azarenka is as good as Hingis or even that they're actually that similar in general, simply that the main things that Hingis hurt Venus with (her exceptional anticipation and ability to deflect the hardest-hit shots, and the ability as soon as there's a short ball to take charge of the point) ARE things Azarenka as almost as good at. Hingis's side-to-side movement, while better than Azarenka's, didn't even come into play much in her matches against Venus.

All the reasons people are throwing that Venus would apparently kill Vika even in B/C-form time after time (that she's so powerful, relentlessly aggressive, etc.) are all things that can be said about Sharapova. And now I'll wait for someone to miss the point and brainlessly go "but Venus is in a different league to Sharapova!!!11".

So Vika would have won her "fair share" of matches against Peak Penus in 2001, even though Henin, Seles, Davenport, Capriati, Clijsters and Serena couldn't at the time? Ok. I can't even stand Penus and I know that's a lie

Henin, Seles, Clijsters and Serena were all nowhere near peak form during Peak Venus's time -- and I would've thought it would go without saying that in this thread I'm referring to Peak Azarenka -- so yeah, that's irrelevant. And, although Davenport arguably was peaking at the time, and is certainly a better player than Azarenka, I'm sure I don't have to explain to you that being a worse match-up for a particular player =/= being a better player overall.

The only halfway-relevant example you have is Capriati, as a counterpuncher who actually did peak at the same time as Venus. I would argue Capriati's strengths were also different to Azarenka's and didn't play against Venus's as well: Capriati was never at good as anticipating as Aza is nor as good at deflecting pace; she did have far better raw footspeed than Azarenka, but that doesn't come into play so much against Venus because even at her peak, the placement of her shots was so predictable.

bandabou
Dec 29th, 2012, 08:12 PM
at least something sensible in your posts

;)

StarDuvallGrant
Dec 29th, 2012, 08:14 PM
So Vika would have won her "fair share" of matches against Peak Penus in 2001, even though Henin, Seles, Davenport, Capriati, Clijsters and Serena couldn't at the time? Ok. I can't even stand Penus and I know that's a lie.

I guess it's a reasonable thought, after all, Venus only had to beat Clijsters, Capriati and Serena in consecutive rounds (in straight sets) to win her USO that year. It's not quite as much of an accomplishment as Radwanska, soon-to-retire Clijsters and post-shoulder surgery Sharapova. But alas, not everyone can deal with that tough of a draw.

Quoting for accuracy and truth.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using VerticalSports.Com App

sammy01
Dec 29th, 2012, 08:34 PM
Vika might get the odd donated win due to venus playing like trash, but venus does that to everyone. I don't think Vika could seriously challenge venus if she was playing well. Only very quick athletes do that.

powerpuff27
Dec 29th, 2012, 08:49 PM
Henin, Seles, Clijsters and Serena were all nowhere near peak form during Peak Venus's time -- and I would've thought it would go without saying that in this thread I'm referring to Peak Azarenka -- so yeah, that's irrelevant. And, although Davenport arguably was peaking at the time, and is certainly a better player than Azarenka, I'm sure I don't have to explain to you that being a worse match-up for a particular player =/= being a better player overall.

The only halfway-relevant example you have is Capriati, as a counterpuncher who actually did peak at the same time as Venus. I would argue Capriati's strengths were also different to Azarenka's and didn't play against Venus's as well: Capriati was never at good as anticipating as Aza is nor as good at deflecting pace; she did have far better raw footspeed than Azarenka, but that doesn't come into play so much against Venus because even at her peak, the placement of her shots was so predictable.

The question is whether Azarenka is any better than a non prime Henin, Seles, Clijsters, and Serena. Although we will never know for sure I suspect the answer is probably no for the majority of those. Having watched all those players play in their non primes around 2001 or earlier for some, I dont think the current Azarenka is better than any of those players even then, unless you are talking about say the 99-2000 Henin or Clijsters who werent even playing matches vs Venus yet.

I agree on the similarities between Azarenka and Capriati's playing style but I honestly dont see what would make Azarenka any tougher for Venus than Capriati was (which wasnt much at all). Capriati in addition to way more raw foot speed, has way more firepower off the ground, the thought of even comparing their forehands is pretty much a joke, and despite her serving woes in comparision to the Williams and other top players of that era a stronger serve as well. She also was much better at the net and could finish some points up there which Azarenka almost never does. I agree Azarenka anticipates better than Capriati, but I dont agree she is any better at deflecting pace, Capriati was a master of this.

Veesus
Dec 29th, 2012, 08:58 PM
Venus. Everywhere. Easily.

UDACHi
Dec 29th, 2012, 09:44 PM
this thread isn't about sharapova but then again i guess i forgot this board thinks willie threads are maria comparisons every single time and vice versa. :o
anyway, the question's impossible to answer unless you're specifying which venus. venus that loses to pironkova or venus that doesn't lose to anyone? azarenka would kill sloppy venus and venus would kill azarenka at her peak. if you think azarenka could even have touched venus in 2000 or 2001, you really need to watch some venus videos..she's a scary bitch when she's good.

Nicolás89
Dec 29th, 2012, 09:58 PM
a well-below-peak Azarenka made it a real contest:

Don't stretch it, that Vika played awesome tennis just weeks before Dubai almost taking out Serena in the AO.

J4m3ka
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:48 PM
I'm confused. A few days ago, when I said Venus's best non-grass matches since 2003 were her defeats to the Belgians at the US Open, I was hysterically shouted down by Venus fans and told that this Dubai match against Vika was her best match since 2003 -- by some of the very same people who now in this thread are saying Venus was nowhere remotely close to her peak form in this match. :scratch:




Why the confusion? It is one of Venus's better HC performances since 2003. It's still a full decade after her peak form though.

caros defender
Dec 29th, 2012, 11:20 PM
Vee would destroy her. Next.

L'Enfant Sauvage
Dec 29th, 2012, 11:45 PM
All the reasons people are throwing that Venus would apparently kill Vika even in B/C-form time after time (that she's so powerful, relentlessly aggressive, etc.) are all things that can be said about Sharapova. And now I'll wait for someone to miss the point and brainlessly go "but Venus is in a different league to Sharapova!!!11".

Well for one I'll say the same thing I said in the Vika-Henin thread. It depends on what exaclty we mean by their matchup. Modern day Vika would slay Anemic Penus "Sjorgrenus" Williams on all surfaces as any player with club level ability at keeping the ball in the court can these days. Take this Vika and put her against Venus of 2000-2003? It doesn't work much in her favor in my opinion. For one thing Vika's BH CC would play right into Venus' favorite weapon at the time, her BHDTL. And Vika simply doesn't have the raw footspeed that Clijsters and Capriati had to bring that rally back to neutral once Venus pulled the trigger on that shot.

In relation to your Venus-Sharapova comparison, they are apples and oranges. Maria frequently camps at the baseline and fires rockets which actually plays into Vika's game. She LOVES baseline to baseline exchanges with players that give her pace(without overwhelming her. Maria of AO08 when she was regularly pouncing on anything short with reckless abandon would have no such trouble. I was just watching clips of Venus back in the 2002 US HC season and a lot of people forget how often she did just that, suffocating her opponents at the net. It would end the rallies quickly before Vika could grind her down and get an opening for attacking. Of course Vika would pass her sometimes, but I firmly believe the reward would pay off more often than not given Venus' wingspan.

But anyway as I always say GenSuck players are always at a disadvantage in these threads as we likely haven't seen what they're fully capable of. Who knows, maybe a couple of years from now Vika or Petra will play at a level that has us all saying they'd slay Venus, Justine, Martina etc :shrug: I remember Kim looking fairly pedestrian to me in 2002, a lot of times she hit single digit winners in sets, yet she completely floored me in 2005. She didn't look like a total mug as she had her moments, but she didn't look like the player she'd turn out to be.

sammy01
Dec 30th, 2012, 12:00 AM
Well for one I'll say the same thing I said in the Vika-Henin thread. It depends on what exaclty we mean by their matchup. Modern day Vika would slay Anemic Penus "Sjorgrenus" Williams on all surfaces as any player with club level ability at keeping the ball in the court can these days. Take this Vika and put her against Venus of 2000-2003? It doesn't work much in her favor in my opinion. For one thing Vika's BH CC would play right into Venus' favorite weapon at the time, her BHDTL. And Vika simply doesn't have the raw footspeed that Clijsters and Capriati had to bring that rally back to neutral once Venus pulled the trigger on that shot.

In relation to your Venus-Sharapova comparison, they are apples and oranges. Maria frequently camps at the baseline and fires rockets which actually plays into Vika's game. She LOVES baseline to baseline exchanges with players that give her pace(without overwhelming her. Maria of AO08 when she was regularly pouncing on anything short with reckless abandon would have no such trouble. I was just watching clips of Venus back in the 2002 US HC season and a lot of people forget how often she did just that, suffocating her opponents at the net. It would end the rallies quickly before Vika could grind her down and get an opening for attacking. Of course Vika would pass her sometimes, but I firmly believe the reward would pay off more often than not given Venus' wingspan.

But anyway as I always say GenSuck players are always at a disadvantage in these threads as we likely haven't seen what they're fully capable of. Who knows, maybe a couple of years from now Vika or Petra will play at a level that has us all saying they'd slay Venus, Justine, Martina etc :shrug: I remember Kim looking fairly pedestrian to me in 2002, a lot of times she hit single digit winners in sets, yet she completely floored me in 2005. She didn't look like a total mug as she had her moments, but she didn't look like the player she'd turn out to be.

Clijsters was 19 in 2002, made a slam final and semis and would go on to win the YEC at the end of 2002. Whilst I agree Kim got better, you could see even at the age of 19 she was special, same with Henin and Venus and Serena was a slam champion at 17.

Whilst we can say maybe Generation suck may improve (though the youngest is caro who is what 22?) I just don't see anything 'wow' in them that I saw in early WS and belgian sisters. Whether it was Venus huge serve, henin's backhand, serena's power or kim's movement, they played points that took your breath away even at a young age.

I wouldn't be surprised if Vika's crosscourt percentage grind game was at its peak now already and caro has already passed hers. Kvitova is the only real question mark as to how good one of them really could be, but she seems to lack some applications to fitness and overall improvement.

powerpuff27
Dec 30th, 2012, 12:13 AM
Why the confusion? It is one of Venus's better HC performances since 2003. It's still a full decade after her peak form though.

Exactly. Peak Venus was clearly from 2000-2003 so why would one of her best performances since 2003 even matter, even if that were true. It is like saying one of Azarenkas best performances before 2011 or even in 2011 and making that her peak tennis, in which case her peak matches would probably be 3 setters were she was badly overpowered by the one dimensional and error spraying ball basher Kvitova, despite sneaking a set out.

Leo St
Dec 30th, 2012, 12:40 AM
i was gonna post something, but seeing dsanders already got crushed (:hug:) i rest

edificio
Dec 30th, 2012, 03:49 AM
Do we really need to use condescending and rude nicknames for players?

Head to head is lead by Venus 2-0.

Dominic
Dec 30th, 2012, 04:19 AM
Peak Venus confortably

dsanders06
Jul 18th, 2013, 03:40 AM
Bump.

I stand by my assessment. :angel:

Marcus1979
Jul 18th, 2013, 04:24 AM
I am surprised Maggie Maleeva has not been mentioned as she was someone that 2000-2001 Venus had problems with.


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L'Enfant Sauvage
Jul 18th, 2013, 04:28 AM
Bump.

I stand by my assessment. :angel:

I wonder why you would bump this thread now, of all times? :oh:

MMJSL
Jul 18th, 2013, 04:37 AM
Vika almost only loses to players who can blow her off the court. Love you Vika, but Peak Venus can most definitely blow you off the court in two straight sets.

Ryusuke Tenma
Jul 18th, 2013, 05:18 AM
What is with these Azarenka threads? Honestly, give it a rest. Azarenka gets pummeled easily. She's nothing special. The fact she has 2 slams is unfortunate and disgusting enough but now you're asking how she does against all these FAR BETTER players? Don't make me laugh, that's beyond preposterous :weirdo:

She's nothing but a little bug compared to Venus :weirdo:

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 18th, 2013, 05:25 AM
Against PEAK Venus? :spit:

Vika gets done away with in comfortable straights.

it-girl
Jul 18th, 2013, 05:30 AM
Venus everywhere, every time.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 18th, 2013, 05:38 AM
Prime Venus would slay any version of Victoria, period. The question is mainly about the chances Victoria would have against a well-playing Venus.

The first question is, which are the not so fast players who have given Venus trouble. Unlike Serena, Venus can have trouble against slower players.
Some names: Lindsay, Pennetta, (maybe Legend).

The last two are not particularly fast, but they are nimble around the court, anticipate well, know how to work the ball and play from all parts of the court. That is what Azarenka would have to do if she wants to give Venus problems.

Slower players never tried to make the match a track meet against Venus. The others did. This is why Vika would get destroyed. She'd try to move Venus around and Venus' athleticism and shot-making would shine. Vika would never be able to keep up.

Venus struggled against players that had pure enough ball striking skills and and mental discipline to hone in, pick on and challenge her technique - forehand, footwork, second serve etc.

momo_rama
Jul 18th, 2013, 05:47 AM
Vika would have struggled against Venus who is the true definition of an athlete. Her movement, net game and first serve would all rob Vika of the rhythm she thrives on. On slow hard courts Vika would a bit more time and she could lengthen out the rallies.

duhcity
Jul 18th, 2013, 05:50 AM
How would x have matched up with y is not a peak v. peak thread.

No shot for Azarenka on grass, even against an average Venus I think. The rest could be competitive.

caroalltheway
Jul 18th, 2013, 06:55 AM
Venus would smite Vika w/o breaking a sweat.

bandabou
Jul 18th, 2013, 07:29 AM
Dsanders is alive again, huh?! :lol: Had been awfully quiet from Miami till Wimby 4th round, but I guess that's how he rolls. :lol:

dsanders06
Jul 18th, 2013, 12:43 PM
Vika almost only loses to players who can blow her off the court. Love you Vika, but Peak Venus can most definitely blow you off the court in two straight sets.

Again, I think this is a misconception about Azarenka, that all you have to do is overpower her to beat her. As I always say, it's not enough just to blast powerful shots at her. The reason Serena has so much success against her is not just because she overpowers her, she also uses the full width of the court, especially because she's capable of creating sharp angles with her forehand and moving Azarenka off the middle of the baseline. If you don't move Azarenka around, then she has such great reaction times that she can retreive even the most powerful shots if you're hitting them close to her. Venus, despite how incredibly powerful her shots were at her peak, did not mix up the placement of her shots atall.

Slower players never tried to make the match a track meet against Venus. The others did. This is why Vika would get destroyed. She'd try to move Venus around and Venus' athleticism and shot-making would shine. Vika would never be able to keep up.

Hingis?

spencercarlos
Jul 18th, 2013, 01:54 PM
Again, I think this is a misconception about Azarenka, that all you have to do is overpower her to beat her. As I always say, it's not enough just to blast powerful shots at her. The reason Serena has so much success against her is not just because she overpowers her, she also uses the full width of the court, especially because she's capable of creating sharp angles with her forehand and moving Azarenka off the middle of the baseline. If you don't move Azarenka around, then she has such great reaction times that she can retreive even the most powerful shots if you're hitting them close to her. Venus, despite how incredibly powerful her shots were at her peak, did not mix up the placement of her shots atall.



Hingis?
Hingis and Azarenka certainly don't play the same kind of game.

Hingis could vary spins, height and direction of the ball to generate errors, Azarenka likes to hit the ball mostly.

I look at this point for instance, and i dont really think i have seen Azarenka play up to this kind of level IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=atiazNTDYWc#t=153s

As for matches at her peak, Venus hits every shot in the book in this match, angles, drop shots, offence, defense, she had to against Hingis.
9mT3iGDCWrU

iWill
Jul 18th, 2013, 02:14 PM
Venus would own Vika on her best days, but if she showed up not playing her best, Vika could definitely beat her on a hardcourt or clay.

Venus at her peak is lightyears ahead of Azarenka though.

Potato
Jul 18th, 2013, 02:23 PM
That Dubai match was not peak Venus... we can all agree that it makes a good highlights reel but Venus was very erratic in that match. Vika played very well.

Well, I feel like Venus's excellent service game would have neutralized the sublime return game of Vika. It also depends on how Vika could attack the Venus forehand. Also the transition game forward is incredibly important since Venus was a terrific counterpuncher as well. I think Vika would be able to get wins on slow HC. But I'm not so convinced on other surfaces. Vika has no chance on fast HC or grass for sure.

dencod16
Jul 18th, 2013, 02:45 PM
Only favor Vika in slow hardcourts namely Aussie, Miami, Indian Wells. outside of that it is all Venus i think. Venus at her prime only loses to people that can outhit her and Azarenka isn't one of them.

dsanders06
Jul 18th, 2013, 03:03 PM
Hingis and Azarenka certainly don't play the same kind of game.

Hingis could vary spins, height and direction of the ball to generate errors, Azarenka likes to hit the ball mostly.

I look at this point for instance, and i dont really think i have seen Azarenka play up to this kind of level IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=atiazNTDYWc#t=153s

As for matches at her peak, Venus hits every shot in the book in this match, angles, drop shots, offence, defense, she had to against Hingis.
9mT3iGDCWrU

I think Azarenka actually has more similarities to Hingis than she's given credit for. Hingis obviously varied the spins more and was a more intelligent and creative player than Azarenka, but broadly speaking, their general strategy against bigger hitters was similar: soak up their opponents' first few heavy blows with their great anticipation, but stay close to the baseline so that they were able to step in as soon as their opponent dropped a short ball and take it on the rise and redirect the ball. Hingis didn't have great footspeed (perhaps slightly better than Azarenka but not by much), but her counterpunching still gave Venus fits.

To be clear, Venus's in her very best form would win everytime, but, as I said in the OP, Venus even in her best seasons often had iffy matches and usually had bad matches on slow surfaces. I could certainly see Azarenka beating the Venus that Hingis beat at the AO2001.

kiwifan
Jul 18th, 2013, 03:38 PM
Venus, everywhere, easily,

The Real Venus? Back when Serena had one or two slams?

Absolutely beats Azarenka on all surfaces, every where...maybe not easy...but she wins every where. :cool:

The Real Venus Williams went into the tank once her Baby Sister showed that she could win every where. :fiery:

Good for Serena, bad for Venus fans. :tape:

lloyders76
Jul 18th, 2013, 03:47 PM
I think Azarenka actually has more similarities to Hingis than she's given credit for. Hingis obviously varied the spins more and was a more intelligent and creative player than Azarenka, but broadly speaking, their general strategy against bigger hitters was similar: soak up their opponents' first few heavy blows with their great anticipation, but stay close to the baseline so that they were able to step in as soon as their opponent dropped a short ball and take it on the rise and redirect the ball. Hingis didn't have great footspeed (perhaps slightly better than Azarenka but not by much), but her counterpunching still gave Venus fits.

To be clear, Venus's in her very best form would win everytime, but, as I said in the OP, Venus even in her best seasons often had iffy matches and usually had bad matches on slow surfaces. I could certainly see Azarenka beating the Venus that Hingis beat at the AO2001.

agree with your post in general, but re the bolded part, i could see most top ten players of the last 10 years beating the venus that showed up in that semi

moby
Jul 18th, 2013, 05:11 PM
I think Azarenka actually has more similarities to Hingis than she's given credit for. Hingis obviously varied the spins more and was a more intelligent and creative player than Azarenka, but broadly speaking, their general strategy against bigger hitters was similar: soak up their opponents' first few heavy blows with their great anticipation, but stay close to the baseline so that they were able to step in as soon as their opponent dropped a short ball and take it on the rise and redirect the ball. Hingis didn't have great footspeed (perhaps slightly better than Azarenka but not by much), but her counterpunching still gave Venus fits.Does Victoria have the firepower to keep Venus from the net a la Lindsay or Serena? No.

Does she have the agility and hands to play creative defense and make Venus hit tricky volleys once Venus gets to the net, a la Legend or Jankovic? No.

How is Victoria winning this match then? She will play some good rallies, but when push comes to shove she doesn't have a point-changing weapon.

spencercarlos
Jul 18th, 2013, 06:27 PM
agree with your post in general, but re the bolded part, i could see most top ten players of the last 10 years beating the venus that showed up in that semi
Indeed, Venus was ridiculously bad that day. You can't really say that Venus was anywhere near her best for that whole event.

spencercarlos
Jul 18th, 2013, 06:36 PM
Does Victoria have the firepower to keep Venus from the net a la Lindsay or Serena? No.

Does she have the agility and hands to play creative defense and make Venus hit tricky volleys once Venus gets to the net, a la Legend or Jankovic? No.

How is Victoria winning this match then? She will play some good rallies, but when push comes to shove she doesn't have a point-changing weapon.
I think she still had the tools to make the match competitive, she certainly manuvers pace really well, and Vika moves better and volleys better than she is credited for. She is a complete player.

The trouble for her is that she hits a striaght ball, not much spin, so Venus at her best, would not be bothered as much and can set up to hit her shots.

Top notch Venus would destroy her at the Usopen and Wimbledon, a certain loss at the French Open and would probably lose a close match vs Azarenka in Australia. On an Indoor court Venus definetly wins.

dsanders06
Jul 18th, 2013, 08:57 PM
Does Victoria have the firepower to keep Venus from the net a la Lindsay or Serena? No.

Does she have the agility and hands to play creative defense and make Venus hit tricky volleys once Venus gets to the net, a la Legend or Jankovic? No.

How is Victoria winning this match then? She will play some good rallies, but when push comes to shove she doesn't have a point-changing weapon.

Imo, yes to the first one. Victoria usually gets really good length on her shots, even on most of her defensive shots, and WOULD keep Venus pinned fairly far back.

The point is, imo, Venus would be having to hit a lot of shots to win a point against Azarenka. On Venus's very best days, she would be able to do it, but we all know even in her best seasons, Venus would quite a lot of the time be vulnerable to making errors if you extended the rallies. I see some of their matches panning out like Azarenka's matches against Maria: Venus bashing away with as much power as she's capable of (but usually down the middle of the court), Azarenka flicking back everything to a good length, Venus getting frustrated at how she's not winning the points or getting any short balls even when she's hitting so hard, Venus feels like she has to go for an even bigger shot and gives up an error.



Top notch Venus would destroy her at the Usopen and Wimbledon, a certain loss at the French Open and would probably lose a close match vs Azarenka in Australia. On an Indoor court Venus definetly wins.

I would pretty much agree with this. Venus would probably win on grass no matter what form she's in, but I feel Victoria would win most of their matches on slow hardcourts. Quick hardcourts would probably give a strong edge to Venus, although I could see Azarenka scratching one or two out on that surface if Venus wasn't at 100%.

Apart from anything else though, I definitely feel that if you gave Azarenka the choice between going up against Henin or Venus, she'd choose Venus without hesitation.

GOyoungUSA
Jul 18th, 2013, 09:46 PM
venus is far and away the second best player of her generation after serena.

azarenka would not be able to cope with prime venus. sorry.

Marcus1979
Jul 19th, 2013, 02:54 PM
when we talk about this peak Vs Peak are we putting Peak Venus in todays game or putting Azarenka in the early 2000s.

I mean In the early 2000s there were a lot more quick Hardcourt events then there are today.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 19th, 2013, 03:36 PM
Hingis?
Did you even see those matches. Hingis played with more variety in a single game than Vika is capable of in an entire match. Further, Hingis main effort was to NOT make it a track meet.

There is no significant comparison of Vika to Hingis.

:spit: I'm not even a Hingis fan and I'm insulted by the thought. :lol:

VeeJJ
Jul 19th, 2013, 05:12 PM
All this thread makes me think is that 2010 Venus would be snatching wigs left and right if she were on tour right now :sobbing:

VeeJJ
Jul 19th, 2013, 05:19 PM
And Lakesha is the best part of this whole highlight reel.....

iWill
Jul 19th, 2013, 05:26 PM
Venus is the undisputed 2nd best player of her generation. Everyone wants to claim Cheatnin is 2nd but that little dude was literally AFRAID to play Venus. I mean Cheatnin even admitted she tanked against Bartoli cause she was afraid to face Queen Venus in the Wimbledon final? Talk about a joke :rolleyes:

madmax
Jul 19th, 2013, 06:14 PM
Venus is the undispputed 2nd best player of her generation. Everyone wants to claim Cheatnin is 2nd but that little dude was literally AFRAID to play Venus. I mean Cheatnin even admitted she tanked against Bartoli cause she was afraid to face Queen Venus in the Wimbledon final? Talk about a joke :rolleyes:

rude.
Henin is probably the most skilled and talented WTA player of all time - she was playing a man's game against much bigger and stronger girls than her. She deserves more than getting bashed by WS turds for her achievements:wavey:

bandabou
Jul 19th, 2013, 06:19 PM
Imo, yes to the first one. Victoria usually gets really good length on her shots, even on most of her defensive shots, and WOULD keep Venus pinned fairly far back.

The point is, imo, Venus would be having to hit a lot of shots to win a point against Azarenka. On Venus's very best days, she would be able to do it, but we all know even in her best seasons, Venus would quite a lot of the time be vulnerable to making errors if you extended the rallies. I see some of their matches panning out like Azarenka's matches against Maria: Venus bashing away with as much power as she's capable of (but usually down the middle of the court), Azarenka flicking back everything to a good length, Venus getting frustrated at how she's not winning the points or getting any short balls even when she's hitting so hard, Venus feels like she has to go for an even bigger shot and gives up an error.



I would pretty much agree with this. Venus would probably win on grass no matter what form she's in, but I feel Victoria would win most of their matches on slow hardcourts. Quick hardcourts would probably give a strong edge to Venus, although I could see Azarenka scratching one or two out on that surface if Venus wasn't at 100%.

Apart from anything else though, I definitely feel that if you gave Azarenka the choice between going up against Henin or Venus, she'd choose Venus without hesitation.

But what you're describing here...is pretty much the Vika vs Masha match-up, no?! :shrug:
Only difference..faster surfaces are Vee, slower surfaces are Vika.

And I don't think Vika would rather face Vee than Henin on grass..or Henin rather than Vee on clay. It's all depending the surface.

Mr.Sharapova
Jul 19th, 2013, 06:21 PM
Venus would have won :shrug:. When on Venus has too much firepower for Azarenka to handle :shrug:. I wish Azarenka played Venus at Wimbledon earlier in their careers :drool:.

Mr.Sharapova
Jul 19th, 2013, 06:22 PM
rude.
Henin is probably the most skilled and talented WTA player of all time - she was playing a man's game against much bigger and stronger girls than her. She deserves more than getting bashed by WS turds for her achievements:wavey:

This.

VishaalMaria
Jul 19th, 2013, 10:13 PM
We already know how they match up, and when Venus is playing decently, she's faster and more explosive than Azarenka.

Even when Azarenka changed direction of her shots quite sharpishly, Venus was able to track them down and hit with interest especially those two Backhands down the line.

dsanders06
Jul 20th, 2013, 12:47 AM
But what you're describing here...is pretty much the Vika vs Masha match-up, no?! :shrug:
Only difference..faster surfaces are Vee, slower surfaces are Vika.

And I don't think Vika would rather face Vee than Henin on grass..or Henin rather than Vee on clay. It's all depending the surface.

Yes, actually I was basing it partly on the Vika-Maria match-up, because Venus and Maria are relatively similar in that they hit a very heavy ball but (typically) don't use the width of the court in the way that Serena does. Maria does seem to be finally figuring out that against Azarenka she has to take a bit of pace off her shots and focus on moving Azarenka side-to-side instead, but, frankly, I'm not entirely sure Venus ever even had Maria's tennis IQ or willingness to adapt her game (though Maria scores lowly in both departments herself).

I still don't see why this is such a ridiculous question. :lol: I don't know if it's people overrating how "unbeatable" Peak Venus was (the player who was pushed all the way by her past-her-prime Hingis twice at Slams, and who struggled to a win over washed-up Sanchez Vicario at the Olympics) or if it's just the grouchy rose-tinted-glasses brigade brainwashing everyone into thinking the new generation can't hold a candle to the previous generation.

debopero
Jul 20th, 2013, 12:55 AM
Well if we are to believe that Henin, even when playing poorly, would never have to Azarenka EVER than I don't know why there is any reason to suspect that she would've matched up perfectly against Venus :yawn: .

dsanders06
Jul 20th, 2013, 01:07 AM
Well if we are to believe that Henin, even when playing poorly, would never have to Azarenka EVER than I don't know why there is any reason to suspect that she would've matched up perfectly against Venus :yawn: .

Match-ups, match-ups, match-ups :shrug: Henin was a master of using the full width of the court and would've got Azarenka moving and broken up her rhythm, Venus didn't have those capabilities.

debopero
Jul 20th, 2013, 01:10 AM
But what about Azarenka's game would have made for a bad matchup against Venus?


My God people on this forum overate Henin. You'd think that she had 30 Grand Slams :o.

bandabou
Jul 20th, 2013, 09:18 AM
Yes, actually I was basing it partly on the Vika-Maria match-up, because Venus and Maria are relatively similar in that they hit a very heavy ball but (typically) don't use the width of the court in the way that Serena does. Maria does seem to be finally figuring out that against Azarenka she has to take a bit of pace off her shots and focus on moving Azarenka side-to-side instead, but, frankly, I'm not entirely sure Venus ever even had Maria's tennis IQ or willingness to adapt her game (though Maria scores lowly in both departments herself).

I still don't see why this is such a ridiculous question. :lol: I don't know if it's people overrating how "unbeatable" Peak Venus was (the player who was pushed all the way by her past-her-prime Hingis twice at Slams, and who struggled to a win over washed-up Sanchez Vicario at the Olympics) or if it's just the grouchy rose-tinted-glasses brigade brainwashing everyone into thinking the new generation can't hold a candle to the previous generation.

It isn't a ridiculous question. Your premise that slower surfaces would favor Vika while faster surfaces favor Vee, is a consensus..:shrug: Just like Vika beats Masha on hc's, but Masha wins on clay..jury still out on grass.

Your notion that Vika would rather play Vee than Juju is a bit too much. Those match-ups are all surface-dependant. It's like saying Vika would rather play Juju on clay than Maria. Ain't true and you won't hear nobody say that, no?! :shrug:

Panther24
Jul 20th, 2013, 09:35 AM
They've already played before :facepalm:

Back then, Venus.

Right now, Azarenka.


Sad we will never glance PEAK vs PEAK in this match-up.

Although Victoria played really well in Dubai that year and Venus just dismantled her in that final.

TheDream
Jul 20th, 2013, 10:51 AM
Let's make one thing clear. Hingis was not past her prime in 2000. IMO, she played her best tennis that year and still didn't win a slam.

Matt01
Jul 20th, 2013, 12:27 PM
Peak Venus might have an edge over Vika but Venus on her usual, normal level (like the one we are seeing these days) would be no match for a top player like Azarenka and Venus would lose on every surface, even grass. :lick:


Dsanders is alive again, huh?! :lol: Had been awfully quiet from Miami till Wimby 4th round, but I guess that's how he rolls. :lol:


And I see you are back from your most recent ban, bandy. How are you doing, my friend? :hug:

Sam L
Jul 20th, 2013, 12:31 PM
Let's make one thing clear. Hingis was not past her prime in 2000. IMO, she played her best tennis that year and still didn't win a slam.

Of course she did. This whole if it's not your best year you're not in your prime thing doesn't consider your competition at all. 2000 was a great year for women's tennis. A very competitive year. That was Martina's peak year probably unfortunately she lost to eventual winners in all four slams. But she was most consistent and deserved the No. 1 ranking imo.

Marcus1979
Jul 20th, 2013, 12:59 PM
That Wimbledon QF against Venus is one of my fav matches of all time due to contrasts in style and the overall quality :drool:


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The Witch-king
Jul 20th, 2013, 01:14 PM
Yes, actually I was basing it partly on the Vika-Maria match-up, because Venus and Maria are relatively similar in that they hit a very heavy ball but (typically) don't use the width of the court in the way that Serena does. Maria does seem to be finally figuring out that against Azarenka she has to take a bit of pace off her shots and focus on moving Azarenka side-to-side instead, but, frankly, I'm not entirely sure Venus ever even had Maria's tennis IQ or willingness to adapt her game (though Maria scores lowly in both departments herself).

I still don't see why this is such a ridiculous question. :lol: I don't know if it's people overrating how "unbeatable" Peak Venus was (the player who was pushed all the way by her past-her-prime Hingis twice at Slams, and who struggled to a win over washed-up Sanchez Vicario at the Olympics) or if it's just the grouchy rose-tinted-glasses brigade brainwashing everyone into thinking the new generation can't hold a candle to the previous generation.

:spit: Seriously?

bandabou
Jul 20th, 2013, 01:20 PM
And I see you are back from your most recent ban, bandy. How are you doing, my friend? :hug:

;)...doing great, enjoying the weather. Hope you're doing great too, buddy! :cool::wavey:

moby
Jul 20th, 2013, 02:31 PM
Let's make one thing clear. Hingis was not past her prime in 2000. IMO, she played her best tennis that year and still didn't win a slam.

That's what people say about Venus 2002-2003 too. They were playing some of their best tennis, but mentally they were already not 100% for whatever reason.

Marcus1979
Jul 20th, 2013, 02:40 PM
In 2002 and 2003 Venus was basically only losing matches to Serena. Of course in 2003 the stomach abdominal strain first reared its head in Warsaw and was said to be a cause for her ROland Garros loss.


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GOyoungUSA
Jul 20th, 2013, 04:00 PM
venus would crush her like a bug. don't compare her to sharapova for gods sake.:lol:

Slutiana
Jul 20th, 2013, 04:16 PM
Unlike Serena, whose game in 2013 doesn't match up well but is 9000 times better so it rarely matters, Azarenka is probably the perfect match-up for Venus. Azarenka's monotonous 3/4 pace ball offers Venus pace without nearly enough firepower to trouble her (previously) great movement.

As other people have noted already, Vika is not powerful enough to go toe to toe with Venus. Nor does she defend well enough to warrant these woeful comparisons to Hingis. Azarenka has built her craft on ranging between accomplished and competent on most aspects of the game. Venus' biggest problems were with players who presented extremes.

A better question would be Capriati vs Azarenka, the edge still easily with the former.

MrWaagh
Sep 24th, 2013, 02:10 PM
Dsanders...

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9383/wkz2.gif

LightWarrior
Sep 24th, 2013, 02:15 PM
Can't believe this matchup is 3/0 for Venus, all straight sets wins.

tennisbum79
Sep 24th, 2013, 02:22 PM
Dsanders...

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9383/wkz2.gif
He has no way to run these days.

The series "Where Does [insert name here ] Go From Here" have run their natural course.
Maria is out for undetermined number of weeks.

Dsanders has too much time on hand, not enough topics about the "enemy" that can sustain a discussion

The Witch-king
Sep 24th, 2013, 02:24 PM
dsander's thread starting powers should be taken away from him :sad: :lol:

tennisbum79
Sep 24th, 2013, 02:33 PM
dsander's thread starting powers should be taken away from him :sad: :lol:
On the ground that he has "continuously abused that privilege" ?:devil:

The Witch-king
Sep 24th, 2013, 02:34 PM
Frankly It would be for his own good

Veesus
Sep 24th, 2013, 02:36 PM
It would be like a match up against Capriati. Venus would / should win them all if she's playing close to her potential.