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View Full Version : Tenisova Extraliga in Prostejov: WTA #243 Sandra Zahlavova d. Petra Kvitova 63 63


Caipirinha Guy
Dec 18th, 2012, 10:45 AM
Didn't see the match, any reports? :spit:

Kəv.
Dec 18th, 2012, 10:47 AM
Petra :help:

SilverPersian
Dec 18th, 2012, 10:49 AM
:help:

supermod
Dec 18th, 2012, 10:50 AM
I watched a couple of minutes.

Solid play from Sandra, hundreds of UEs from Kvitova. Movement, shot selection and control were all lacking in quality.

Saraya!
Dec 18th, 2012, 10:56 AM
I watched a couple of minutes.

Solid play from Sandra, hundreds of UEs from Kvitova. Movement, shot selection and control were all lacking in quality.

How Kvitova look like? More fat than before?

supermod
Dec 18th, 2012, 10:58 AM
How Kvitova look like? More fat than before?

:lol: It was such a low quality stream, I did not see any difference.

She looked ok, not sick or tired or something like that.

She just played bad. I guess she didn't care too much about the match.


Radwanska is playing next btw.

binky-GOAT
Dec 18th, 2012, 11:01 AM
:happy: :hah:

hundreds of UEs from Kvitova. Movement, shot selection and control were all lacking in quality.

well don't they always...

Petronius
Dec 18th, 2012, 11:03 AM
Hilarity. OTH, everyone knows that when Petra's shots do not land in she can lose to anyone. Zahlavova has just won the Czech Indoor Championship and is now - in her own words - in great shape, she was No. 78 in 2010.

Although Petra played like crap, this just shows the depth of talent in the Czech female tennis. As I've said in the subforum, if Navratilova wasn't beaten by compatriots Mandlikova and Sukova in 1983 and 1984, the longest winning streak in female tennis could have been 150+ matches instead of 'just' 74 :lol:

These lower-ranked players simply don't have any respect.

GOATdin0931
Dec 18th, 2012, 11:04 AM
:spit:

JarkaFish
Dec 18th, 2012, 11:07 AM
Yup.

lenas warriors
Dec 18th, 2012, 11:14 AM
Oh Lordy. Shes obviously been resting during the off season then :rolleyes:

No wonder shes playing Brisbane and Sydney hoping to play into form.

JarkaFish
Dec 18th, 2012, 11:15 AM
Can't say I'm very hopeful about her form next year after a result like this, oh well.

Saraya!
Dec 18th, 2012, 11:16 AM
:lol: It was such a low quality stream, I did not see any difference.

She looked ok, not sick or tired or something like that.

She just played bad. I guess she didn't care too much about the match.


Radwanska is playing next btw.

:lol::lol::lol:

I believe she donīt hang in 100%...same like Serena in Brazil:bounce:

Adrian.
Dec 18th, 2012, 11:17 AM
OMG, to all people she lost to Sandra :hysteric:

ElusiveChanteuse
Dec 18th, 2012, 11:18 AM
Petra has nothing to lose now and she will win AO.:cheer:

C. Drone
Dec 18th, 2012, 11:20 AM
Hilarity. OTH, everyone knows that when Petra's shots do not land in she can lose to anyone. Zahlavova has just won the Czech Indoor Championship and is now - in her own words - in great shape, she was No. 78 in 2010.

Although Petra played like crap, this just shows the depth of talent in the Czech female tennis. As I've said in the subforum, if Navratilova wasn't beaten by compatriots Mandlikova and Sukova in 1983 and 1984, the longest winning streak in female tennis could have been 150+ matches instead of 'just' 74 :lol:

These lower-ranked players simply don't have any respect.

you are right, Sandra Zahlavova will win AO.

sweetadri06
Dec 18th, 2012, 11:39 AM
how did she look physically? Any fitter than Istanbul?

Nicolas
Dec 18th, 2012, 12:11 PM
Most awesome result in years :hearts:

Mynarco
Dec 18th, 2012, 01:25 PM
Journeywomen beating my faves :inlove:

Trickle
Dec 18th, 2012, 01:29 PM
I-dont-give-a-****-Kvitty. :hearts:

Break My Rapture
Dec 18th, 2012, 01:30 PM
Kvitty looks set for another dismal year TBH.

Fighterpova
Dec 18th, 2012, 01:43 PM
Put a fork in her, she's done.

I mean what's with all the people writing her off, it's just an exhibition. Serena lost to a school girl and Maria was bageled by Groth. It doesn't mean much and if anything, I for one think she is going to have a good year in 2013.

Caipirinha Guy
Dec 18th, 2012, 01:44 PM
Put a fork in her, she's done.

I mean what's with all the people writing her off, it's just an exhibition. Serena lost to a school girl and Maria was bageled by Groth. It doesn't mean much and if anything, I for one think she is going to have a good year in 2013.

It's not an exhibition :spit: Those are club championships being played almost in her hometown. It's the most important tennis tournament in Czech Republic these days (along with Fed Cup and Davis Cup).

sweetadri06
Dec 18th, 2012, 01:48 PM
Put a fork in her, she's done.

I mean what's with all the people writing her off, it's just an exhibition. Serena lost to a school girl and Maria was bageled by Groth. It doesn't mean much and if anything, I for one think she is going to have a good year in 2013.

I really don't care that she lost, just want to know how she looks overall. That's what is most interesting. These results are not unusual for Petra considering she can lose to anyone when her game is really off.

danieln1
Dec 18th, 2012, 02:15 PM
It's only a matter of her shots landing in...

Let's see when they start to go in again :facepalm:

Kon.
Dec 18th, 2012, 02:22 PM
It's not an exhibition :spit: Those are club championships being played almost in her hometown. It's the most important tennis tournament in Czech Republic these days (along with Fed Cup and Davis Cup).

Still doesn't sound much more important than an exhibition. :shrug:

améliemomo
Dec 18th, 2012, 03:11 PM
she must be VERY tired to lose like that against zahlavova...

no matter cause what matters is the AO and the conditions are different:)

Losing Streak
Dec 18th, 2012, 03:35 PM
:spit: :hysteric:

ZeroSumGame
Dec 18th, 2012, 03:36 PM
Watched the match highlites, would've loved to see the entire match, but there's really nothing much to read into such matches. However what I noticed was Petra looked totally outta shape :o

StoneRose
Dec 18th, 2012, 03:44 PM
This result is meaningless. I'm surprised that many see Petra losing AO final to Serena. Based on other results year it's unlikely she'll get that far.

Spring Pools
Dec 18th, 2012, 03:50 PM
Petra has nothing to lose now and she will win AO.:cheer:

Nah she'll lose to Zahlavova or Hradecka in the finals

marineblue
Dec 18th, 2012, 03:57 PM
Wow:lol: Something tells me we'll see more of these flops next season.

Petronius
Dec 18th, 2012, 03:58 PM
Petra has nothing to lose now and she will win AO.:cheer:

:cheer:

Before the match Zahlavova was on a 13-match indoor winning streak, while Petra played her very first match since the Fed Cup final.

'It's just a preparation and since it's a team event I hope my teammates will back me up.'

GoofyDuck
Dec 18th, 2012, 04:00 PM
Petra, ffs make some changes already.

Excelscior
Dec 18th, 2012, 04:26 PM
This result is meaningless. I'm surprised that many see Petra losing AO final to Serena. Based on other results year it's unlikely she'll get that far.

Hhhmmhh. So I guess, based off your Criteria then, you never expected Vika to ever have the year she did last year and in 2011. Cause, up until 2011 (with her Betty Crocker cake walk draw at Wimbledon), Vika had never made it past the quarterfinal of any major. :eek:

Can you at least pretend not to troll and fear/dislike Petra, since we're still officially in off season? Geesh! :lol:

If Petra doesn't make any major semi-finals or finals, it won't be because of your type of logic/wishful thinking. It will be due to other factors, she can hopefully overcome.

And I also feel some TFers don't expect Vika to duplicate (or even come close--for some) her 2012. I guess, they feel someone has to fill the void? And why not Petra? :shrug:

Of course, this all remains to be seen. :scratch:

Excelscior
Dec 18th, 2012, 04:32 PM
Wow:lol: Something tells me we'll see more of these flops next season.

You SHOULD KNOW, more than anyone!!! :lol: :oh: :lol:

hurricanejeanne
Dec 18th, 2012, 04:52 PM
Eh. Petra is always going to be streaky as hell. She's like a lesser version of Peak Pierce. :shrug:

Cindy and Kate
Dec 18th, 2012, 05:22 PM
Hard to say what is her real form until Brisbane, may be she was tired after a hard training season the day before, or she just didnīt care, but whatever the reason , it looks anything but promising. It would be sad after the off season, when she was supposed to have worked her fitness like crazy, to see a even more heavy, slow and out of shape Petra.

Excelscior
Dec 18th, 2012, 05:42 PM
Hard to say what is her real form until Brisbane, may be she was tired after a hard training season the day before, or she just didnīt care, but whatever the reason , it looks anything but promising. It would be sad after the off season, when she was supposed to have worked her fitness like crazy, to see a even more heavy, slow and out of shape Petra.

Unfortunately (and I know I shouldn't be saying this on GM :lol: ), I'm not sure how much she really worked out and dedicated herself after the season? Petra didn't even have a fitness person until a few weeks ago. Not sure if you know? But Ivanko (her previous fitness person) has been gone since the middle of the tennis season. And I feel the new person is nothing to write home about either, to be quite honest.

Now, after saying all that: I don't give this the tournament much credence. Never did. And I'd rather have Petra take it slow and work her way back into tennis form and shape, then to over exert herself before she's ready and get hurt like she did last year playing Lucie H., and mess up her upcoming season. That is exactly what she did last year at this same tournament, and I'd hate to see it happen again. Take it easy Petra.

Let's wait and see how she does during the beginning of 2013?

StoneRose
Dec 18th, 2012, 06:12 PM
Hhhmmhh. So I guess, based off your Criteria then, you never expected Vika to ever have the year she did last year and in 2011. Cause, up until 2011 (with her Betty Crocker cake walk draw at Wimbledon), Vika had never made it past the quarterfinal of any major. :eek:

Can you at least pretend not to troll and fear/dislike Petra, since we're still officially in off season? Geesh! :lol:

If Petra doesn't make any major semi-finals or finals, it won't be because of your type of logic/wishful thinking. It will be due to other factors, she can hopefully overcome.

And I also feel some TFers don't expect Vika to duplicate (or even come close--for some) her 2012. I guess, they feel someone has to fill the void? And why not Petra? :shrug:

Of course, this all remains to be seen. :scratch:I did expect Vika to do better in 2012 than 2011 as she played very well on HC 2011 and was a bit unlucky to get Serena third round USO. But no, not as good as it turned out, she improved more than i hoped. But Vika's more consistent than Petra so i don't expect her to flop next year.

Of course Petra can play well but she needs to work on mental problems, other things like physical fitness will sort itself out automatically in that case.

I actually hope Petra does well next year as it makes the tour more interesting, even if we all have to live with talk of "new Messiah" and "dominance" again.

Crater718
Dec 18th, 2012, 07:46 PM
Maybe the result is meaningless but if she looks more out of shape then.....

Maybe she still looks like the same?

Cindy and Kate
Dec 18th, 2012, 08:02 PM
Unfortunately (and I know I shouldn't be saying this on GM :lol: ), I'm not sure how much she really worked out and dedicated herself after the season? Petra didn't even have a fitness person until a few weeks ago. Not sure if you know? But Ivanko (her previous fitness person) has been gone since the middle of the tennis season. And I feel the new person is nothing to write home about either, to be quite honest.

Now, after saying all that: I don't give this the tournament much credence. Never did. And I'd rather have Petra take it slow and work her way back into tennis form and shape, then to over exert herself before she's ready and get hurt like she did last year playing Lucie H., and mess up her upcoming season. That is exactly what she did last year at this same tournament, and I'd hate to see it happen again. Take it easy Petra.
Let's wait and see how she does during the beginning of 2013?

For me itīs astonishing that, as you say, she didnīt have a fitness coach for most of the season. A top 10 player and a GS winner, itīs unbelievable for me, specially when her fitness is such a massive problem for her. Doesnīt she has a trainer, or a team or whatever to advise her properly? Itīs like we are talking about an amateur club player, instead of a professional one. Iīve done fitness all my life and a couple of months of programmed training plus diet can make a world of a difference, and itīs happened like that for many players in the off season, but that its my opinion of course, and besides, itīs not like she should exert herself to beat the number 243 in the world.
Until Brisbane we wonīt see how things really are, but it seems to me like she is still in her post USO free falling mode

Excelscior
Dec 18th, 2012, 08:09 PM
I did expect Vika to do better in 2012 than 2011 as she played very well on HC 2011 and was a bit unlucky to get Serena third round USO. But no, not as good as it turned out, she improved more than i hoped. But Vika's more consistent than Petra so i don't expect her to flop next year.

Of course Petra can play well but she needs to work on mental problems, other things like physical fitness will sort itself out automatically in that case.

I actually hope Petra does well next year as it makes the tour more interesting, even if we all have to live with talk of "new Messiah" and "dominance" again.

Your logic and answer to my question, still makes no sense. :scratch:

Vika had never been past a Slam Quarters before 2011, and she had even more--celebrated "mental problems (as you describe them)" than Petra was ever known for. Vika was also a top 10 player longer than Petra. And despite that, she had a reputation of frequent immaturity, disappointment, outburst, injury, and bewildering retirements--on and off the court--, to go along with those frequent disappointments, right up until Wimbledon last year. It's amazing how you forget all this. How rich. :lol:

And despite your more "consistent player" argument: Petra was expected to perform much better than Vika in 2012 (and actually did in 2011), by so called experts and observers. Now kudos to Vika on her year. However, using your logic, you can actually make the argument (based on prior history), that Vika was playing above her head or unexpectedly. How she does in 2013?....We'll see?

"Consistency", only last up to your latest tournament or year. Just look at, ask Caro. I certainly wish both Vika and Petra the best in 2013. However, I'll be curious to see if you call Vika's year a "flop", if she makes 2 slam semi's, one slam quarter, a slam 4th rd, while winning a P5 and Premier as Petra did?

Come on. Just admit you were flippantly trolling and making no sense. You seem to do that a lot when it concerns Petra. It's all good though. :lol:

ShiftyFella
Dec 18th, 2012, 08:15 PM
For me itīs astonishing that, as you say, she didnīt have a fitness coach for most of the season. A top 10 player and a GS winner, itīs unbelievable for me, specially when her fitness is such a massive problem for her. Doesnīt she has a trainer, or a team or whatever to advise her properly? Itīs like we are talking about an amateur club player, instead of a professional one. Iīve done fitness all my life and a couple of months of programmed training plus diet can make a world of a difference, and itīs happened like that for many players in the off season, but that its my opinion of course, and besides, itīs not like she should exert herself to beat the number 243 in the world.
Until Brisbane we wonīt see how things really are, but it seems to me like she is still in her post USO free falling mode
This is normal for Petra, she sometimes hits with her PR lady, while coach off home with family and her preteen boyfriend acts as coach\trainer, she even sometimes use children as her hitting partner:lol::sad:


btw, actually i'm happy Petra lost, Sandra was hot and trying to play with her at better level for Petra would be increased possibility of repeating last year faith, also her team was already in the final before her match, so no sense for pushing it more than "pre-preparation" before the season starts

Excelscior
Dec 18th, 2012, 08:27 PM
For me itīs astonishing that, as you say, she didnīt have a fitness coach for most of the season. A top 10 player and a GS winner, itīs unbelievable for me, specially when her fitness is such a massive problem for her. Doesnīt she has a trainer, or a team or whatever to advise her properly? Itīs like we are talking about an amateur club player, instead of a professional one. Iīve done fitness all my life and a couple of months of programmed training plus diet can make a world of a difference, and itīs happened like that for many players in the off season, but that its my opinion of course, and besides, itīs not like she should exert herself to beat the number 243 in the world.
Until Brisbane we wonīt see how things really are, but it seems to me like she is still in her post USO free falling mode

Boy, you don't know the half of it. :lol: :oh: :lol:

I'll leave it at that, unless you ask/wanna know (unless you already do)? :tape:

I wouldn't want anyone to change their Australian Open, 2013 ranking or slam picks. :lol:

Cindy and Kate
Dec 18th, 2012, 09:05 PM
Boy, you don't know the half of it. :lol: :oh: :lol:

I'll leave it at that, unless you ask/wanna know (unless you already do)? :tape:

I wouldn't want anyone to change their Australian Open, 2013 ranking or slam picks. :lol:

I havenīt the foggiest idea, how could I? but it seems you do, and certainly you leave me intrigued, because she seems, at least that is the image she projects, a nice sweet girl, unpeevish and not difficult to manage, maybe that is the key?
You make it sound like thereīs someone making all the kind of wrong decisions for her ? :confused: If that is so it would be sad indeed because it could wreck a great talent.

JarkaFish
Dec 18th, 2012, 09:26 PM
Kvitova just doesn't seem to take tennis too seriously. :shrug:

She's probably just content coasting off of her talent.

Excelscior
Dec 18th, 2012, 09:50 PM
I havenīt the foggiest idea, how could I? but it seems you do, and certainly you leave me intrigued, because she seems, at least that is the image she projects, a nice sweet girl, unpeevish and not difficult to manage, maybe that is the key?
You make it sound like thereīs someone making all the kind of wrong decisions for her ? :confused: If that is so it would be sad indeed because it could wreck a great talent.

Bingo! That's it (someone making bad decisions that she listens to)!!

And many of her fans and close observers feel exactly the way you do.

What a waste--this would be, if it continues. SMH

Excelscior
Dec 18th, 2012, 09:57 PM
Kvitova just doesn't seem to take tennis too seriously. :shrug:

She's probably just content coasting off of her talent.

That may be partially true.

Petra appears/sounds like she wants to be great. I just don't think she knows better and what it really takes. And unfortunately, her management--that she listens to/controls every aspect of her tennis, doesn't allow her to see what could be, the bigger picture and how to go about it.

They have too much hubris, parochialism and conflicts of interest for my taste (and should be for Petra, if she knew better and/or were more independent).

Israel
Dec 19th, 2012, 12:38 AM
Relax, it's just an exho. Federer lost to Belluci in the Brazil exho match a few weeks ago...
Also we all know that Petra is capable of beating anyone she wants to.

Lord Choc Ice
Dec 19th, 2012, 12:48 AM
Relax, it's just an exho. Federer lost to Belluci in the Brazil exho match a few weeks ago...
Also we all know that Petra is capable of beating anyone she wants to.
Bellucci took set from Federer in Fed's home tourney (Basel) towards the end of the season. Bad matchup for Fed perhaps.

Anyway, Petra :cuckoo:. Mess.

Jose.
Dec 19th, 2012, 02:53 AM
I know this doesn't count but honestly how bad she has to play to lose to Zahlavova :spit:

JarkaFish
Dec 19th, 2012, 03:03 AM
I know this doesn't count but honestly how bad she has to play to lose to Zahlavova :spit:

:help:

Jose.
Dec 19th, 2012, 03:06 AM
Yeah, she must have played really bad :o

RobinT83
Dec 19th, 2012, 03:34 AM
Fantastic result for the sport :banana:
Always, always a great day for tennis when Shitra Craptova loses (in WTA tournaments, Club Championships and Exhibitions...).
Thank you Sandra for saving tennis once again :worship:
This mindless ballbasher Craptova will have a bad 2013 season, she's too brainless and slow as hell (footwork and foot speed are really bad), nothing will change next year: always the same brainless play and same old UES.
At the moment, she's hugely overranked and her Wimbledon win was a complete fluke, obviously (she had to beat Flukonkova to reach semi-final for example, enough said/).
Hopefully, she drops out of the top 20 next year to save women's tennis from a new low (almost a sure bet).

JarkaFish
Dec 19th, 2012, 04:34 AM
Pictures:

http://www.protenis.cz/galerie/data/media/297/DSC_9552_.jpg

http://www.protenis.cz/galerie/data/media/297/DSC_9571_.jpg

http://www.protenis.cz/galerie/data/media/297/DSC_9564_.jpg

Losing Streak
Dec 19th, 2012, 04:42 AM
Fantastic result for the sport :banana:
Always, always a great day for tennis when Shitra Craptova loses (in WTA tournaments, Club Championships and Exhibitions...).
Thank you Sandra for saving tennis once again :worship:
This mindless ballbasher Craptova will have a bad 2013 season, she's too brainless and slow as hell (footwork and foot speed are really bad), nothing will change next year: always the same brainless play and same old UES.
At the moment, she's hugely overranked and her Wimbledon win was a complete fluke, obviously (she had to beat Flukonkova to reach semi-final for example, enough said/).
Hopefully, she drops out of the top 20 next year to save women's tennis from a new low (almost a sure bet).

:rolleyes:

Because Sandra Zahlavova and her wonderfully gracious tennis winning matches is certainly fantastic for the sport. :lol:
The most hilarious thing is that you talk about brainless play and spraying and at the same time you're a Li tard. #priceless

Excelscior
Dec 19th, 2012, 05:43 AM
:rolleyes:

Because Sandra Zahlavova and her wonderfully gracious tennis winning matches is certainly fantastic for the sport. :lol:
The most hilarious thing is that you talk about brainless play and spraying and at the same time you're a Li tard. #priceless

She/It also loves [GASP] Lucie Safarova as well, if you can believe that. :eek: :tape: :eek:

So you know you can't take this clown too seriously (despite the Adam Lanza/Unabomber, Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson, Ted Bundy-like ramblings; especially off of a Pre Pre Pre season club match in the Czech Republic. :lol:

Losing Streak
Dec 19th, 2012, 07:19 AM
She/It also loves [GASP] Lucie Safarova as well, if you can believe that. :eek: :tape: :eek:

So you know you can't take this clown too seriously (despite the Adam Lanza/Unabomber, Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson, Ted Bundy-like ramblings; especially off of a Pre Pre Pre season club match in the Czech Republic. :lol:

IKR. I think he's trying hard to surpass Vikapower in our national trolling ranking, but poor guy could never. :awww:

supermod
Dec 19th, 2012, 08:40 AM
The next match against Pernilla Mendez is starting now. :lick:

Petronius
Dec 19th, 2012, 12:33 PM
She/It also loves [GASP] Lucie Safarova as well, if you can believe that. :eek: :tape: :eek:

So you know you can't take this clown too seriously (despite the Adam Lanza/Unabomber, Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson, Ted Bundy-like ramblings; especially off of a Pre Pre Pre season club match in the Czech Republic. :lol:

Well, considering that Petra may play as early as December 30 in Brisbane, I'd take at least one of these 'pre' prefixes off :lol:

StoneRose
Dec 19th, 2012, 02:06 PM
Your logic and answer to my question, still makes no sense. :scratch:

Vika had never been past a Slam Quarters before 2011, and she had even more--celebrated "mental problems (as you describe them)" than Petra was ever known for. Vika was also a top 10 player longer than Petra. And despite that, she had a reputation of frequent immaturity, disappointment, outburst, injury, and bewildering retirements--on and off the court--, to go along with those frequent disappointments, right up until Wimbledon last year. It's amazing how you forget all this. How rich. :lol:

And despite your more "consistent player" argument: Petra was expected to perform much better than Vika in 2012 (and actually did in 2011), by so called experts and observers. Now kudos to Vika on her year. However, using your logic, you can actually make the argument (based on prior history), that Vika was playing above her head or unexpectedly. How she does in 2013?....We'll see?

"Consistency", only last up to your latest tournament or year. Just look at, ask Caro. I certainly wish both Vika and Petra the best in 2013. However, I'll be curious to see if you call Vika's year a "flop", if she makes 2 slam semi's, one slam quarter, a slam 4th rd, while winning a P5 and Premier as Petra did?

Come on. Just admit you were flippantly trolling and making no sense. You seem to do that a lot when it concerns Petra. It's all good though. :lol:The difference is that Vika has overcome these mental problems, Petra hasn't as of yet. The so called experts and observers claiming Petra would do better than Vika 2012 were roughly the same experts who thought Petra would win > 10 slams and dominate for years to come, their expertise seems a bit questionable right now :lol:. If Vika would end 8th next year in the rankings i would certainly call that a very disappointing result and Vika would probably agree. Lastly i don't see why you always have to call other posters trolls etc when you don't agree with them. What i wrote is just how i see it and i was not lying when is said that i hope Petra does better next year. As it is now, also looking at those pictures that were posted, it seems there's still some work to be done.

danieln1
Dec 19th, 2012, 02:08 PM
Tenisova???? :happy:

Who is that player? :oh:

Petronius
Dec 19th, 2012, 02:53 PM
Tenisova???? :happy:

Who is that player? :oh:

It's a pure coincidence :lol:

In the Czech language, both female adjectives and female surnames have 'OVA' endings.

'Tenisová' is an adjective :lol:

Excelscior
Dec 19th, 2012, 03:26 PM
The difference is that Vika has overcome these mental problems, Petra hasn't as of yet. The so called experts and observers claiming Petra would do better than Vika 2012 were roughly the same experts who thought Petra would win > 10 slams and dominate for years to come, their expertise seems a bit questionable right now :lol:. If Vika would end 8th next year in the rankings i would certainly call that a very disappointing result and Vika would probably agree. Lastly i don't see why you always have to call other posters trolls etc when you don't agree with them. What i wrote is just how i see it and i was not lying when is said that i hope Petra does better next year. As it is now, also looking at those pictures that were posted, it seems there's still some work to be done.

You are such a tool and disingenuous, blind fool so many times. There's no use talking to you. :shrug: Do you hear yourself? How long have you been following tennis? :lol:

I'm sure you'll be hiding in your corner if/when Vika disappoints or flops again as she's done most of her career as a high ranked player.

Based off of her talent (or lack of it), she may never sniff a year like she did last year ever again in her career (even with the current WTA). Many reasonable tennis cognoscenti, would already feel she's over achieved. But you go ahead and count on it, along with Petra's demise (and predicted stagnation before she even matures).

Yeah. Keep slurping the kool aid indeed. I'm sure by then, you'll be rooting for somebody else anyway. :lol:

StoneRose
Dec 19th, 2012, 03:42 PM
You are such a tool and disingenuous, blind fool so many times. There's no use talking to you. :shrug: Do you hear yourself? How long have you been following tennis? :lol:

I'm sure you'll be hiding in your corner if/when Vika disappoints or flops again as she's done most of her career as a high ranked player.

Based off of her talent (or lack of it), she may never sniff a year like she did last year ever again in her career (even with the current WTA). Many reasonable tennis cognoscenti, would already feel she's over achieved. But you go ahead and count on it, along with Petra's demise (and predicted stagnation before she even matures).

Yeah. Keep slurping the kool aid indeed. I'm sure by then, you'll be rooting for somebody else anyway. :lol:Vicious as ever :lol:.

Excelscior
Dec 19th, 2012, 04:02 PM
Vicious as ever :lol:.

As long as you and your logic--continues to be dumb and senseless as ever. SMH. :lol: :tape: :lol:

Excelscior
Dec 19th, 2012, 04:25 PM
Well, considering that Petra may play as early as December 30 in Brisbane, I'd take at least one of these 'pre' prefixes off :lol:

It's kinda like OFF OFF OFF Broadway in this respect: The location, event and venue are even more important than the future date or season. :lol:

In comparison, this event isn't even a dress rehearsal or touring company before it hits the big stage (mind you Broadway or Trafalgar Square). This is just early stage warm ups, when the various collaborators first get together to test stuff out. Hence (and another reason for), the OFF OFF OFF Broadway Moniker. :lol:

It may be big in your town. But it's actually Local, Regional Theater, to someone else (metaphorically speaking; I know your in the Czech Republic) in comparison to the "REAL" Broadway show/stage.

The actual Dress Rehearsals and Big Show starts Jan 2013 in Australia (Yes, I know about Brisbane starting Dec. 30th). :lol:

Petronius
Dec 19th, 2012, 05:05 PM
You are such a tool and disingenuous, blind fool so many times. There's no use talking to you. :shrug: Do you hear yourself? How long have you been following tennis? :lol:

It's kinda like OFF OFF OFF Broadway in this respect: In comparison, this event isn't even a dress rehearsal or touring company before it hits the big stage (mind you Broadway or Trafalgar Square).

It may be big in your town. But it's actually Local, Regional Theater, to someone else.

OMG, Excelscior in 'classy and humble mode'. I wonder what will come next. Australian swing can't come soon enough. :lol:

borrowedheaven
Dec 19th, 2012, 05:25 PM
You are such a tool and disingenuous, blind fool so many times. There's no use talking to you. :shrug: Do you hear yourself? How long have you been following tennis? :lol:

I'm sure you'll be hiding in your corner if/when Vika disappoints or flops again as she's done most of her career as a high ranked player.

Based off of her talent (or lack of it), she may never sniff a year like she did last year ever again in her career (even with the current WTA). Many reasonable tennis cognoscenti, would already feel she's over achieved. But you go ahead and count on it, along with Petra's demise (and predicted stagnation before she even matures).

Yeah. Keep slurping the kool aid indeed. I'm sure by then, you'll be rooting for somebody else anyway. :lol:

Oh god, you are so annoying. If you want to disprove someone's arguments, at least come up with some good of your own. There's nothing wrong with what that poster said.

Excelscior
Dec 19th, 2012, 05:57 PM
Oh god, you are so annoying. If you want to disprove someone's arguments, at least come up with some good of your own. There's nothing wrong with what that poster said.

And go around and around in useless circles? :eek:

Did you read what he said/responded to previously? He was avoiding the initial question/what he said and being illogical.

At that point, I had already checked out, was done. :lol:

Excelscior
Dec 19th, 2012, 06:01 PM
OMG, Excelscior in 'classy and humble mode'. I wonder what will come next. Australian swing can't come soon enough. :lol:

I knew the Czech thing wasn't going to come off well with you. :eek:

I already saw that coming. :lol:

But if you read some other posters in this thread, they don't consider this any type of real tournament either.

Just so you know: I would say the same, even if a similar tournament was played by me, with the Australian swing coming up. It is what it is. :shrug:

As far as the other thing: I've already wasted more time on that, then I ever initially planned to. It read much worse than I intended it to sound. :lol:

Deestruction
Dec 19th, 2012, 07:52 PM
Omg people its just a little exbition or whatever you call this tournament, its nothing to get riled up about. :lol: :rolleyes:

Ian Aberdon
Dec 19th, 2012, 08:04 PM
Off season. No-one cares! :facepalm: :lol:

Cindy and Kate
Dec 19th, 2012, 10:13 PM
Pictures:

http://www.protenis.cz/galerie/data/media/297/DSC_9552_.jpg

http://www.protenis.cz/galerie/data/media/297/DSC_9571_.jpg

http://www.protenis.cz/galerie/data/media/297/DSC_9564_.jpg

I have to say she doesnīt look that bad in the pictures, still a little overweight, but no worse that at the end of the season. Her legs seem stronger.

Excelscior
Dec 19th, 2012, 10:24 PM
I have to say she doesnīt look that bad in the pictures, still a little overweight, but no worse that at the end of the season. Her legs seem stronger.

That's what I thought to, when I heard what some people on here were saying (though I should have knew better) about how she looked. :lol:

But there appears to be some people here, that will always automatically say Petra is/was "fat", "overweight", "unfit" and "heavier than before", etc., when seeing her play. :lol: :eek: :lol:

PS: Did you get my response to your last question (regarding Petra and her handlers/directions)?

Cajka
Dec 19th, 2012, 10:31 PM
I know that this is just a meaningless exho, but her lack of competitiveness is worrisome.

Excelscior
Dec 19th, 2012, 10:40 PM
I know that this is just a meaningless exho, but her lack of competitiveness is worrisome.

In fairness/defense of Petra: She got injured last year during the same tournament, because of that aforementioned competitiveness, albeit against the #100 ranked player. So I would rather have her take it easy, if this was reportedly only the second day she had picked up a racket since Fed Cup to play an actual match.

I'm assuming Zahlavova has been playing tennis for a while. As a matter of fact, someone said earlier--the young lady had won the Czech Indoor League--entering this tournament, for what ever that's worth? :shrug:

So Ms. Zahlavova was obviously in some type of form--compared to Petra--when they played. :lol:

Cajka
Dec 19th, 2012, 10:54 PM
In fairness/defense of Petra: She got injured last year during the same tournament, because of that aforementioned competitiveness, albeit against the #100 ranked player. So I would rather have her take it easy, if this was reportedly only the second day she had picked up a racket since Fed Cup to play an actual match.

I'm assuming Zahlavova has been playing tennis for a while. As a matter of fact, someone said earlier--the young lady had won the Czech Indoor League--entering this tournament, for what ever that's worth? :shrug:

So Ms. Zahlavova was obviously in some type of form--compared to Petra--when they played. :lol:

Zahlavova is not a bad player at all, she took a set from Venus few years ago. But still, losing 3 & 3 to her is bad, even in an exho. And Petra has been indifferent for a while. If it was only on exhos, who cares, Serena loses all her exho matches, but Petra looked like that in general this year. Bodo called her a "tear-stained drama queen", but to me she looks indifferent. Perhaps she lost some confidence and competitiveness after failing to reach #1.

Gentleman
Dec 19th, 2012, 10:56 PM
OMG what's going on? Petra? Was she that bad or what? OMG moment when I saw this thread.

Excelscior
Dec 19th, 2012, 11:09 PM
Zahlavova is not a bad player at all, she took a set from Venus few years ago. But still, losing 3 & 3 to her is bad, even in an exho. And Petra has been indifferent for a while. If it was only on exhos, who cares, Serena loses all her exho matches, but Petra looked like that in general this year. Bodo called her a "tear-stained drama queen", but to me she looks indifferent. Perhaps she lost some confidence and competitiveness after failing to reach #1.

We'll see?

She's going through, been processing a lot, it appears.

Yes, she's kinda admitted she didn't want to be number one earlier in the year (and some observers has said she didn't appear to embrace it). I guess she saw it as a huge invasion of her privacy, along with the added/constant expectations.

We know all about the injuries, sickness and not living up to expectations (despite her two slam semi's, quarters, 4th round and P5 and Premier titles).

Petra's also got a lot going on with her preparation and her management team. She just got a new Fitness person a few weeks ago, for the first time since the summer. She didn't have a hitting partner (mind you a male one) through out the entire year of 2012. Her coaching team made some tactical and practical, health blunders. This had a domino affect on her year. And she appears under a lot of pressure at home to stay there and meet her managements expectations (who I don't feel are the best people for her) for various ceremonial nonsense. There just appears to be a lot going on.

So I think Petra's been dealing with plenty. Hopefully, she can overcome all this, and have a Bang Out 2013. She certainly has the talent to do it. The question will he have the happiness and the will (along with the 2011-like skill) to accomplish it all? She's got a lot to prove. And I hope she does. But it's anyones guess? :shrug:

We'll see?

Cajka
Dec 19th, 2012, 11:22 PM
We'll see?

She's going through, been processing a lot, it appears.

Yes, she's kinda admitted she didn't want to be number one earlier in the year (and some observers has said she didn't appear to embrace it). I guess she saw it as a huge invasion of her privacy, along with the added/constant expectations.

We know all about the injuries, sickness and not living up to expectations (despite her two slam semi's, quarters, 4th round and P5 and Premier titles).

Petra's also got a lot going on with her preparation and her management team. She just got a new Fitness person a few weeks ago, for the first time since the summer. She didn't have a hitting partner (mind you a male one) through out the entire year of 2012. Her coaching team made some tactical and practical, health blunders. This had a domino affect on her year. And she appears under a lot of pressure at home to stay there and meet her managements expectations (who I don't feel are the best people for her) for various ceremonial nonsense. There just appears to be a lot going on.

So I think Petra's been dealing with plenty. Hopefully, she can overcome all this, and have a Bang Out 2013. She certainly has the talent to do it. The question will he have the happiness and the will (along with the 2011-like skill) to accomplish it all? She's got a lot to prove. And I hope she does. But it's anyones guess? :shrug:

We'll see?

It could be similar case to Djokovic's. In his early career he won a slam, he was considered to be the next big thing, but then he had few disappointing seasons, struggling with his game, poor spirit, injuries, allergies, asthma (similar to Petra), but then he decided to put an extra effort in his nutrition, fitness preparation, health care in general, it worked.

Cindy and Kate
Dec 19th, 2012, 11:22 PM
That's what I thought to, when I heard what some people on here were saying (though I should have knew better) about how she looked. :lol:

But there appears to be some people here, that will always automatically say Petra is/was "fat", "overweight", "unfit" and "heavier than before", etc., when seeing her play. :lol: :eek: :lol:

PS: Did you get my response to your last question (regarding Petra and her handlers/directions)?

I am glad you thought the same. I donīt think Petra is fat, but it is obvious that she is a bit overweight (and only for a professional tennis player, I donīt mean it disrespectfully like others) not too much, but still a bit. She was slimmer in 2011 and moved so much better, thatīs what I mean. She is a tall strong woman and is never going to be the skinny type, and she is never either going to move like Radwanska or Errani, but she doesnīt need to, she just need to move good enough again to get comfortably into her hitting zone and then she can be unplayable. Sharapova has improved immensely in that field.
I got your response but I am still puzzled. Itīs her manager then, but her coach, parents... they all agree? Is her circle so so close ? Why did her previous fitnees coach leave? I think he was a middle aged good looking man who used to sit besides her coach. Maybe she should change all her team, coach included and start anew?

Excelscior
Dec 20th, 2012, 12:18 AM
I am glad you thought the same. I donīt think Petra is fat, but it is obvious that she is a bit overweight (and only for a professional tennis player, I donīt mean it disrespectfully like others) not too much, but still a bit. She was slimmer in 2011 and moved so much better, thatīs what I mean. She is a tall strong woman and is never going to be the skinny type, and she is never either going to move like Radwanska or Errani, but she doesnīt need to, she just need to move good enough again to get comfortably into her hitting zone and then she can be unplayable. Sharapova has improved immensely in that field.
I got your response but I am still puzzled. Itīs her manager then, but her coach, parents... they all agree? Is her circle so so close ? Why did her previous fitnees coach leave? I think he was a middle aged good looking man who used to sit besides her coach. Maybe she should change all her team, coach included and start anew?

Wow!

Where do I start? :lol:

I tried to be polite, discreet and respectful. :lol:

But yes, it's her management.

They are not set up like the management of top 10, young Wimbledon, future potential multi Grand Slam champion. They're set up like a top 100-200 player operation. And they possess too many conflicts of interest, all controlled by one person.

I, along with others, have spoken about this Plenty in Petra's subforum. But I've never went into detail here on GM. And I still won't. It's just too many examples. However, I'll try to give a decent overview. :lol:

1) Her Manager/Management seems to only hire Czech's or Slovak's within his network. Now, I don't have a problem with that if they're the best people. However, if they're not and/or presents significant delays to Petra's development, then that's a problem.

Her last Fitness Person was Ivanko. That was the gentlemen you were mentioning. He was very good actually. But he was let go. Her new fitness person (another Management choice), appears to be nothing to write home about, and almost embarrassing for a player of Petra's caliber. Trust me. :lol: That's a problem!

2) Her Manager (who's not a coach or tennis player, but a business man) actually chooses her coaches and even peripheral staff. That choice should be between Petra and her coach (and or independent tennis advisors she consults with). But her manager actually publicly brags that he's the one calling the shots and controls Petra's decision making. Can you believe that? Tacky!

And even her current coach (David Kotyza), who shows promise in some areas, and lack of promise in others; is a stooge of her manager. I think his hearts in the right place. Nonetheless he's a YES MAN for her manager. And I doubt, Petra will receive outside help (specialist--for example--to work on different tennis areas) anytime soon, if ever, at all.

3) Her Management has massive conflicts of interest. He owns/runs the Prostojev club; he's Petra's personal Manager (with massive control over her personell, career and events participation). He's a Czech Tournament promoter (Fed Cup, Prague 100K and Extraliga); and Prostojev is involved with player development as well. He's also manager of Tomas Berdych and Lucie Safarova, who are also members of the Protojev club, just as a FYI. And of course he's active in Politics.

Because of the various conflicts of interest, Petra is frequently asked (and he's actually bragged in Czech publications that he can get Petra to do what he wants) to promote or play in his silly events--even when she should be home resting/preparing for Slams or out the country practicing on outdoor hard courts, as opposed to indoor in cold ass Czech Republic. So you know; Prostojev is mainly an indoor facility.

You know, Petra hadn't had a male hitting Partner all year in 2012? Last year, she periodically used her boyfriend--Adam (also a member of her Managers Prostojev club by the way) to hit with, and look at the results she had? This year, the only time, I can recall she hit with a male hitting partner, was when she hit with the Prostojev Junior boys. Yes, you read right. :lol: And the irony of that?....Petra actually extolled the virtues of hitting with a male hitting partner (albeit junior boys), but she hadn't had one all year. Come to think of it; she hit with a Junior boy (in Adam), periodically last year as well. Amazing! SMH.

How in the world does a player with Petra's stature and presumed expectations, not have a part time, per diem or full time male hitting partners? :shrug:

4) Petra was diagnosed with asthma in 2009 at the US Open. And it appears they had taken three years to find the proper inhaler. Why? They had a host of the world doctors to choose from, and it appeared they only focused on their local Czech doctors to find the solution. Puzzling. And you can say this about practically every decision her team makes. They don't operate like a top team. And to make it worse, Petra trust them and appears to not encourage or insist in her own decision making.

5) This would explain why Martina Navratilova has said more than a few times on Tennis Channel "I don't know what's wrong with that kid, she doesn't contact me", when asked by Lindsay or her other broadcast partners on the air. This year at Fed Cup, Martina wasn't initially invited. :eek: Yes it's true. Apparently, it was a dis by one of the Czech tennis Big wigs that her manager cozies up with. It appears they may encourage her (directly or indirectly), not to speak to outside tennis advisors, due to their established, internal Czech Cliques? :help:

Former Steffi Graf coach, and Czech Pavel Složil , stated in a Czech magazine article that Petra should seek out Djokovic's people regarding her conditioning, diet, asthma and further fitness. And I agree. You see, Pavel is an independent Czech, not affiliated with Petra's manager, so speaks freely like any other normal person would. Unfortunately, I highly doubt she will.

And here in lies the big problem (and why I wrote so long :lol: ). Petra's hasn't taken charge of her career yet. And the people she has (in my opinion) don't appear to be able to take her to the next level. They caught lightening in bottle with Petra in 2011. And it was her talent, youthful optimism and confidence, which carried her through. Don't get me wrong. They did their parts/job. However, Petra needs additional support, advisors, fitness, practice and mental strength, etc., if she's to fulfill her promise. Unfortunately, her management (who appears to make the decisions) seems content, with using the people they have in their network, even if they may not be the most qualified, reputable or convenient choices.

Petra has earned enough money and the reputation (in tennis circles) to hire the best or at least top notch people in assisting her to potential greatness. However, for most of the year she didn't have an actual team. At first it was Petra, her coach and Fitness instructor. When he left, it became only Petra and her coach, until Katie The PR LADY (probably from WTA) traveled with them. And in Montreal it got so bad, that Petra actually hit with Katie before her matches there. Now give Petra credit, she won Montreal (though she could have very well lost in the first round). But how in the world can you hit with your PR Lady, who's not even a tennis player? SMH

Pavel Složil , mentioned in his interview, that he used to have Steffi hit with the top male players (and I mean the VERY top) after an easy match to get her reps. Now, not only did Petra not have any male hitting parter in 2012 in any capacity, but I've never heard of her hitting with Tomas Berdych (despite the management connection) at any slam or combined event. SMH

Until things change, Petra's team from top to bottom is just not anything to write home about. As a matter of fact, it's kind of embarrassing for a player of her caliber and recent, current success and alleged aspirations.

In short: It's like Petra has a Bad Father/Controller/Coach, that can't let go (and neither can she for that matter). Yeah, we've all seen, heard that before. The difference is; it's a greedy businessman out to further his won self interest and ego--many times at Petra's expense and detriment, I feel. She could get rid of him tomorrow if she wanted (or choose her own people to work with, if he insisted on keeping her). We know, Petra doesn't need and can get rid of him. It happens all the time with player, managers. Granted; it's a little more difficult with your mother or father as coach or manager. But that happens to. :lol:

Hopefully (though I'm not counting on it anytime soon), Petra will. We'll see? :scratch:

Cajka
Dec 20th, 2012, 12:29 AM
It could be similar case to Djokovic's. In his early career he won a slam, he was considered to be the next big thing, but then he had few disappointing seasons, struggling with his game, poor spirit, injuries, allergies, asthma (similar to Petra), but then he decided to put an extra effort in his nutrition, fitness preparation, health care in general, it worked.

OK, now I saw Excelisor's post. There was obviously an article in Czech about this.

Excelscior
Dec 20th, 2012, 12:45 AM
OK, now I saw Excelisor's post. There was obviously an article in Czech about this.


The article was an interview with Pavel Slozil about a wide range of things, and one of them was him mentioning Petra should seek out Djokovic's people (which I agree with), for a multitude of things.

Unfortunately, I've never heard of her people ever seeking out anyone, that's not part of her management's colloquial Czech and Slovak based inner circle. That's a problem.

Most of the stuff I wrote, came from me. And the articles that covered Petra or her manager, dealt with general stuff, but her manager as dumb enough to Brag that he could get Petra to play Fed Cup when she was sick and even next year, when Petra wouldn't immediately commit to it after the Czech's 2012 championship. Stuff like that.

And most of this comes up, cause our Czech members, who question the relationship, find the various articles and quotes when he's in them.

So at this point, it seems certain independent issues (when they come up) affecting Petra and her play are discussed in their magazines. However, not enough Czech publications are blatantly criticizing him, like they should (cause he still talks like he owns her, instead of only being her manager). But he is questioned enough--about Petra's success or lack of it, and her plans for the future and various Czech events.

Cajka
Dec 20th, 2012, 12:58 AM
he still talks like he owns her, instead of only being her manager

It seems like he's a fraud. A normal manager would never take credits for her success. Some other players have much better teams, but I never heard anyone bragging like that. Well, Novak's first coach is a very annoying lady who always points out that she discovered him, but even she says that he's always been a special boy, born to be successful. I'm guessing he helped her financially like Ivanovic's manager?

Excelscior
Dec 20th, 2012, 01:09 AM
It seems like he's a fraud. A normal manager would never take credits for her success. Some other players have much better teams, but I never heard anyone bragging like that. Well, Novak's first coach is a very annoying lady who always points out that she discovered him, but even she says that he's always been a special boy, born to be successful. I'm guessing he helped her financially like Ivanovic's manager?


You are right. We've called him worser things. :lol:

On top of that, he's a braggart, and acts/sounds like he's the important one and not Kvitova. Very tacky and classless. I agree.

Petra, as you know, could get rid of him anytime she wanted, if/when inspired to. Unfortunately, at the moment, I don't think she cares.

Yes, he helped her financially, and I guess that's why he feels so entitled. He's very annoying. And thinks he's big time. But he's really not. He's a small fish. As a matter of fact, many parts of his management of Petra is embarrassing. More importantly, it's only going hurt, impede and stagnate Petra's all around development, if this continues. Petra needs a true, independent world class team.

What he may not realize is, these type of relationships happen all the time (like Petra and Ana with their Managers or Djokovic), and usually the star player leaves anyway.

Apparently, he had Martina Hingis, when she was younger, and she left him and his club, to later great success, and he can't live it down, so has become a control freak. Yeah, I know. Shit happens! so what!

They can't stop it. Once these players reach the big time, they belong to the world (especially if they can become better players, receive more honest management, and control their own careers and destiny).

Yeah. I saw you got the picture. You know the deal, his type. :lol:

oh yeah i guess
Dec 20th, 2012, 01:22 AM
You are such a tool and disingenuous, blind fool so many times. There's no use talking to you. :shrug: Do you hear yourself? How long have you been following tennis? :lol:

I'm sure you'll be hiding in your corner if/when Vika disappoints or flops again as she's done most of her career as a high ranked player.

Based off of her talent (or lack of it), she may never sniff a year like she did last year ever again in her career (even with the current WTA). Many reasonable tennis cognoscenti, would already feel she's over achieved. But you go ahead and count on it, along with Petra's demise (and predicted stagnation before she even matures).

Yeah. Keep slurping the kool aid indeed. I'm sure by then, you'll be rooting for somebody else anyway. :lol:

I think you should step away from the keyboard for a while.

Cajka
Dec 20th, 2012, 01:37 AM
Petra, as you know, could get rid of him anytime she wanted, if/when inspired to. Unfortunately, at the moment, I don't think she cares.

Yes, but...

Yes, he helped her financially, and I guess that's why he feels so entitled.

This. You may notice that Aga got rid of her dad and, as it seems, it was the best possible decision. But this is much different. Tennis parents are often annoying, demanding, obsessive, but they are parents after all. It's difficult for the kids to fire them, it takes a courage, but they'll never turn against their own children, they wish them the best. But getting rid of the businessman who helped her when no one else could. I don't know about Czech Republic, but in Serbia all those "businessmen" are very shady persons, you just don't want to mess with that kind.

Excelscior
Dec 20th, 2012, 01:44 AM
Yes, but...



This. You may notice that Aga got rid of her dad and, as it seems, it was the best possible decision. But this is much different. Tennis parents are often annoying, demanding, obsessive, but they are parents after all. It's difficult for the kids to fire them, it takes a courage, but they'll never turn against their own children, they wish them the best. But getting rid of the businessman who helped her when no one else could. I don't know about Czech Republic, but in Serbia all those "businessmen" are very shady persons, you just don't want to mess with that kind.

Ahhhhh. OK. :lol:

Yes! He's very shady and connected. :eek:

And I know exactly what you mean. However, she could leave the country. :lol: :scratch: :lol: But Petra doesn't seem close to doing anything like that anytime soon.

It's funny: I've always thought about Djokovic (a proud Serb), and what he's had to go through, when I think about Petra, the Czech Republic and her Crony, Old Man Mafia-like clan. :lol:

Djokovic appears to display a nice balance of staying true to his heritage, while also seeking out the best advice, assistance for himself/career throughout the world. Is that true?

He even knows how the play the game with US broadcasters, media despite the shady US involvement in that whole war mess over there.

Kudos to him!

Cajka
Dec 20th, 2012, 02:08 AM
Ahhhhh. OK. :lol:

Yes! He's very shady and connected. :eek:

And I know exactly what you mean. However, she could leave the country. :lol: :scratch: :lol: But Petra doesn't seem close to doing anything like that anytime soon.

It's funny: I've always thought about Djokovic (a proud Serb), and what he's had to go through, when I think about Petra, the Czech Republic and her Crony, Old Man Mafia-like clan. :lol:

Djokovic appears to display a nice balance of staying true to his heritage, while also seeking out the best advice, assistance for himself/career throughout the world. Is that true?

He even knows how the play the game with US broadcasters, media despite the shady US involvement in that whole war mess over there.

Kudos to him!

He's a smart guy, I'm sure he never got some type of media coaching, for the most of the time he knows what to say and do. Sure, he had some tacky moments (imitations, some problems he had with USO crowd), but he was also capable to learn from it, so he stopped acting like a clown, he learned how to handle the crowd booing, but the thing about him is that he never had a manager, he had a huge support from parents, his father is really weird, but Novak can handle him.

Petra doesn't want to play for another country, I think. And she can't get rid of her manager, but she can set some limits, say that she needs more people in her team, other opinions, not to literally fire her manager, but to put some limits to his influence. My guess is that he needs her to be successful and to bring money, so if she could find a way to be diplomatic, maybe he'd give her more freedom. And the story about Adam being her hitting partner is hilarious. It's actually worse for him than for her. Guys at his age are probably already much stronger and faster than WTA players, so what's the point. I'm not dissing WTA or Petra, just stating the obvious.

Excelscior
Dec 20th, 2012, 02:40 AM
He's a smart guy, I'm sure he never got some type of media coaching, for the most of the time he knows what to say and do. Sure, he had some tacky moments (imitations, some problems he had with USO crowd), but he was also capable to learn from it, so he stopped acting like a clown, he learned how to handle the crowd booing, but the thing about him is that he never had a manager, he had a huge support from parents, his father is really weird, but Novak can handle him.

Petra doesn't want to play for another country, I think. And she can't get rid of her manager, but she can set some limits, say that she needs more people in her team, other opinions, not to literally fire her manager, but to put some limits to his influence. My guess is that he needs her to be successful and to bring money, so if she could find a way to be diplomatic, maybe he'd give her more freedom. And the story about Adam being her hitting partner is hilarious. It's actually worse for him than for her. Guys at his age are probably already much stronger and faster than WTA players, so what's the point. I'm not dissing WTA or Petra, just stating the obvious.

Oh. Petra doesn't have to change her citizenship. I was just saying she can move from the Czech Republic. Not just for him, But for a warm weather climate, like most players do. Last year she got sick, cause her team had her heal her Achilles during the season--while the Czech Republic was in a deep freeze. Ironically, she was resting at home, due to the injury she suffered playing at her managers Extraliga tournament (this tournament here, last year). That virus she caught, also drained her for Indian Wells, and may have contributed to her picking up that stomach virus there.

I agree. Petra should have more input in her career, regarding who she wants and works with. Currently, her manager picks the people first; strongly encourages it, then Petra and Kotyza rubber stamp it. :lol:

Yes, you would think he would do what's best for her to make more money. But no. For example, Extraliga won't make him any extra money from Petra, but he wants her there, as well as other promotional (tennis and non tennis), events he's affiliated with. It's all hubris, to say she was there. Those are the sort of things that Petra can say a polite no to. He knows these things as well. However, he still tells the media things like (when they ask) "don't worry, I'll convince her to play Fed Cup next year, if she hasn't committed to it yet', in regards to her rest and/or focusing on the majors. The nerve!

Oh. I agree with you with Adam. And Petra already said he could beat her. My point was, they were too cheap or unimaginative to hire a male hitting partner for Petra altogether. This year she's had none, except the Prostojev junior boys before Istanbul. Last year, it was just every once in a while, till Adam focused more on his own career.

If I was her, I would leave them and the Czech Republic altogether. What are they going to do, knock her off? She's a famous tennis player, national hero. That's bad publicity.

I know. They're other ways. :eek: :lol: :eek: But you know what I mean. :)

Cajka
Dec 20th, 2012, 03:12 AM
Oh. Petra doesn't have to change her citizenship. I was just saying she can move from the Czech Republic. Not just for him, But for a warm weather climate, like most players do. Last year she got sick, cause her team had her heal her Achilles during the season--while the Czech Republic was in a deep freeze. Ironically, she was resting at home, due to the injury she suffered playing at her managers Extraliga tournament (this tournament here, last year). That virus she caught, also drained her for Indian Wells, and may have contributed to her picking up that stomach virus there.

Well, winters in Europe are horrible, but even if she moves away, she'll spend some time during the off season there with her parents, it's inevitable.

"don't worry, I'll convince her to play Fed Cup next year, if she hasn't committed to it yet', in regards to her rest and/or focusing on the majors. The nerve!

I hope that Czech posters won't take it wrong, but she won FC twice, now it's really the time to focus on her own career. I know it's great when you see a slam winner playing for their country in a team competition, since I live in a small country, I respect Petra a lot for being committed to FC and her record in FC is just amazing, but now she should focus on her singles results, we should not forget that she also represents her country in a way on slams. Czech women's tennis is well known because they've had slam winners, big champions.

If I was her, I would leave them and the Czech Republic altogether. What are they going to do, knock her off? She's a famous tennis player, national hero. That's bad publicity.


Oh, of course they wouldn't. :lol: I'm not her fan at all, although she's growing on me :o and I'm a huge hater of Generation Suck. :rolleyes:, but I'm sure that they are totally proud of her, she's a slam winner, a nice girl. Who wouldn't be proud of her? Sure, she barks like a demon, but I don't think they mind it. :lol:

I apologize to everyone subscribed to this thread, Excelisor and I are trolling now, I now. :hysteric:

Excelscior
Dec 20th, 2012, 03:28 AM
Well, winters in Europe are horrible, but even if she moves away, she'll spend some time during the off season there with her parents, it's inevitable.



I hope that Czech posters won't take it wrong, but she won FC twice, now it's really the time to focus on her own career. I know it's great when you see a slam winner playing for their country in a team competition, since I live in a small country, I respect Petra a lot for being committed to FC and her record in FC is just amazing, but now she should focus on her singles results, we should not forget that she also represents her country in a way on slams. Czech women's tennis is well known because they've had slam winners, big champions.



Oh, of course they wouldn't. :lol: I'm not her fan at all, although she's growing on me :o and I'm a huge hater of Generation Suck. :rolleyes:, but I'm sure that they are totally proud of her, she's a slam winner, a nice girl. Who wouldn't be proud of her? Sure, she barks like a demon, but I don't think they mind it. :lol:

I apologize to everyone subscribed to this thread, Excelisor and I are trolling now, I now. :hysteric:

Funny. :lol: :eek: :lol:

Don't worry, I'm almost beat, done anyway. :lol:

What do you think about Ana and Nigel Sears?

I know it's early. But are you happy with the moves she made last year and their relationship? Or do you have a wait and see attitude about them and the future? He appears to communicate with her well, cares, and is obviously older, and not someone you would think she would date or have problems with. He appears good for her?

PS: I agree, whole heartedly with you, regarding Petra (or anyone else in her position) and Fed Cup. No matter how proud they may be of the Czech Republic winning it. They'll be even prouder if she wins a major, YEC or Olympic gold medal.

Cajka
Dec 20th, 2012, 03:40 AM
Funny. :lol: :eek: :lol:

Don't worry, I'm almost beat, done anyway. :lol:

What do you think about Ana and Nigel Sears?

I know it's early. But are you happy with the moves she made last year and their relationship? Or do you have a wait and see attitude about them and the future? He appears to communicate with her well, cares, and is obviously older, and not someone you would think she would date. He appears good for her?

PS: I agree, whole heartedly with you, regarding Petra (or anyone else in her position) and Fed Cup. No matter how proud they may be of the Czech Republic winning it. They'll be even prouder if she wins a major, YEC or Olympic gold medal.

Many Ana's fans criticize on Nigel, but I absolutely love him and I don't blame him for her weight loss, it started way before she hired him. Apart from Heinz Gunthardt (who was amazing, absolutely the best), for me Nigel is the best coach she's had in years. And I believe she likes him too, I can't remember the last time she was working with the same coach or that long. But she needs to be more powerful, her performance against Petra was completely overrated on this board. Petra played a bad much and Ana was fine, she showed some nice touch and nice returns, but that's it. It's good for her mentality, but her game wasn't that promising IMO.

Excelscior
Dec 20th, 2012, 04:11 AM
Many Ana's fans criticize on Nigel, but I absolutely love him and I don't blame him for her weight loss, it started way before she hired him. Apart from Heinz Gunthardt (who was amazing, absolutely the best), for me Nigel is the best coach she's had in years. And I believe she likes him too, I can't remember the last time she was working with the same coach or that long. But she needs to be more powerful, her performance against Petra was completely overrated on this board. Petra played a bad much and Ana was fine, she showed some nice touch and nice returns, but that's it. It's good for her mentality, but her game wasn't that promising IMO.

Oh. OK.

So do you think she'll get stronger with weight gain? Or is this a ball striking, conditioning or consistency issue with you (for her)?

I'm asking, cause you said earlier "I don't blame him for the weight loss". So do you have a problem with the weight loss in general (whether you blame him or not)?

Hopefully, her overall game and mentality, will reach the levels that--it appears you would love to see.

Oh, and back on the shady businessmen in small, former Soviet block European countries for a second. :lol: Is that the reason why, many European players come to America (or Spain), so they don't have to owe certain people back home? Cause, you know, many times if you're good enough, you can find a sponsor or a scholarship that will take care of your Academy/training expenses. And how shady are they (and can be)? :lol: :eek: :lol:

And Good Night (though it should be really early for you over in Europe), if we don't speak again on this topic tonight/this morning.

Cajka
Dec 20th, 2012, 04:22 AM
Oh. OK.

So do you think she'll get stronger with weight gain? Or is this a ball striking, conditioning or consistency issue with you (for her)?

I'm asking, cause you said earlier "I don't blame him for the weight loss". So do you have a problem with the weight loss in general (whether you blame him or not)?

Hopefully, her overall game and mentality, will reach the levels that--it appears you would love to see.

I have a problem with her fitness level and strength. Both could be related to weight/muscle mass loss, Ana used to be a really powerful girl, in terms of raw power not less powerful than Petra, but clearly less aggressive/more patient, now she doesn't play like a really big hitter at all (which is her natural playing style). IMO, she should gain some pounds (including both muscle and fat that would protect her from injuries), but I don't think she should become chubby again, she's a naturally big and powerful girl, just like Petra, although their games are not very similar.

Excelscior
Dec 20th, 2012, 04:29 AM
I have a problem with her fitness level and strength. Both could be related to weight/muscle mass loss, Ana used to be a really powerful girl, in terms of raw power not less powerful than Petra, but clearly less aggressive/more patient, now she doesn't play like a really big hitter at all (which is her natural playing style). IMO, she should gain some pounds (including both muscle and fat that would protect her from injuries), but I don't think she should become chubby again, she's a naturally big and powerful girl, just like Petra, although their games are not very similar.


Hmmmmh. OK. Thanks.

Well, good luck with that!. And hopefully she'll find a happy medium.

Note: I had added two additional paragraphs to my last post. :lol:

Cindy and Kate
Dec 20th, 2012, 12:49 PM
Wow!

Where do I start? :lol:

I tried to be polite, discreet and respectful. :lol:

But yes, it's her management.

They are not set up like the management of top 10, young Wimbledon, future potential multi Grand Slam champion. They're set up like a top 100-200 player operation. And they possess too many conflicts of interest, all controlled by one person.

I, along with others, have spoken about this Plenty in Petra's subforum. But I've never went into detail here on GM. And I still won't. It's just too many examples. However, I'll try to give a decent overview. :lol:

1) Her Manager/Management seems to only hire Czech's or Slovak's within his network. Now, I don't have a problem with that if they're the best people. However, if they're not and/or presents significant delays to Petra's development, then that's a problem.

Her last Fitness Person was Ivanko. That was the gentlemen you were mentioning. He was very good actually. But he was let go. Her new fitness person (another Management choice), appears to be nothing to write home about, and almost embarrassing for a player of Petra's caliber. Trust me. :lol: That's a problem!

2) Her Manager (who's not a coach or tennis player, but a business man) actually chooses her coaches and even peripheral staff. That choice should be between Petra and her coach (and or independent tennis advisors she consults with). But her manager actually publicly brags that he's the one calling the shots and controls Petra's decision making. Can you believe that? Tacky!

And even her current coach (David Kotyza), who shows promise in some areas, and lack of promise in others; is a stooge of her manager. I think his hearts in the right place, nonetheless he's a YES MAN for her manager. And I doubt, Petra will receive outside help (specialist--for example--to work on different tennis areas) anytime soon, if ever, at all.

3) Her Management has massive conflicts of interest. He owns/runs the Prostojev club; he's Petra's personal Manager (with massive control over her personell, career and events participation). He's a Czech Tournament promoter (Fed Cup, Prague 100K and Extraliga); and Prostojev is involved with player development as well. He's also manager of Tomas Berdych and Lucie Safarova, who are also members of the Protojev club, just as a FYI.

Because of the various conflicts of interest, Petra is aways asked (and he's actually bragged in Czech publications that he can get Petra to do what he wants) to promote or play in his silly events--even when she should be home resting/preparing for Slams or out the country practicing on outdoor hard courts, as opposed to indoor in cold ass Czech Republic.

You know, Petra hadn't had a male hitting Partner all year in 2012? Last year, she periodically used her boyfriend--Adam (also a member of her Managers Prostojev club by the way) to hit with, and look at the results she had? This year, the only time, I can recall she hit with a male hitting partner, was when she hit with the Prostojev Junior boys. Yes, you read right. :lol: And the irony of that?....Petra actually extolled the virtues of hitting with a male hitting partner (albeit junior boys), but she hadn't had one all year. Come to think of it; she hit with a Junior boy (in Adam), periodically last year as well. Amazing! SMH.

How in the world does a player with Petra's stature and presumed expectations, not have a part time, per diem or full time male hitting partners?

4) Petra was diagnosed with asthma in 2009 at the US Open. And it appears they had taken three years to find the proper inhaler. Why? They had a host world of doctors to choose from, and it appeared they only focused on their local Czech doctors to find the solution. Puzzling. And you can say this about practically every decision her team makes. They don't operate like a top team. And to make it worse, Petra trust them, and appears to not encourage or insist in her own decisions.

5)This would explain why Martina Navratilova has said more than a few times on Tennis Channel "I don't know what's wrong with that kid, she doesn't contact me", when asked by Lindsay or her other broadcast partners on the air. This year at Fed Cup, Martina wasn't initially invited. :eek: Yes it's true. Apparently, it was a dis by one of the Czech tennis Big wigs that her manager cozies up with. It appears they may encourage her, not to speak to outside tennis advisors? :help:

Former Steffi Graf coach, and Czech Pavel Složil , stated in a Czech magazine article that Petra should seek out Djokovic's people regarding her conditioning, diet, asthma and further fitness. And I agree. You see, Pavel is an independent Czech, not affiliated with Petra's manager, so speaks freely like any other normal person would. Unfortunately, I highly doubt, she will.

And here in lies the big problem (and why I wrote so long :lol: ). Petra's hasn't taken charge of her career yet. And the people she has (in my opinion) don't appear to be able to take her to the next level. They caught lightening in bottle with Petra in 2011. And it was her talent, youthful optimism and confidence, which carried her though. Now, Petra needs a lot more support, advisors, fitness, practice and mental strength, if she's to fulfill her promise. Unfortunately, her management (who appears to make the decisions) seems content, with using the people they have in their network, even if they may not be the most qualified, reputable or convenient choices.

Petra has earned enough money and the reputation (in tennis circles) to hire the best or at least top notch people, to assist her to potential greatness. However, for most of the year she didn't have an actual team. At first it was Petra, her coach and Fitness instructor. When he left, it became only Petra and her coach, until Katie The PR LADY (probably from WTA) traveled with them. And in Montreal it got so bad, that Petra actually hit with Katie before her matches there. Now give Petra credit, she won Montreal (though she could have very well lost in the first round). But how in the world can you hit with your PR Lady, who's not even a tennis player? SMH

Pavel Slozil, mentioned in his interview, that he used to have Steffi hit with the top male players (and I mean the VERY top) after an easy match, to get her reps. Now, not only did Petra not have any male hitting parter in 2012 in any capacity, but I've never heard of her hitting with Tomas Berdych (despite the management connection) at any slam or combined event. SMH

Until things change, Petra's team from top to bottom is just not anything to write home about. As a matter of fact, it's kind of embarrassing for a player of her caliber and recent, current success and alleged aspirations.

In short: It's like Petra has a Bad Father/Controller/Coach, that can't let go (and neither does she). Yeah, we've all seen, heard that before. The difference is; it's a greedy businessman out to further his won self interest, many times at Petra's expense and detriment, I feel. She cold get rid of him tomorrow if she wanted (or choose her own people to work with, if he wanted to keep her). Petra doesn't need and can get rid of him. It happens all the time with player managers. It's a little more difficult, with your father. But that happens to. :lol:

Hopefully (though I'm not counting on it anytime soon), Petra will. We'll see? :scratch:

Thank you so much Excelsior for such a detailed and finely explained and constructed answer (well, article is more like it) I am left speechless after reading some parts of it. Someone answered one of my post in this thread and told me about the hitting with her PR and I didnīt care to answer..... because I thought it was a joke :lol:
Despite it all, I think that part of the blame lies on Petra herself as someone has already pointed out. Maybe she feels fine with her current state of affairs? I also find so hard to credit that she didnīt like to be number one so early because it was going to change her life:confused:. Then maybe she sould give up tennis, or it is that sheīd rather be a top 10 or even top 20 and not have the pressure of being on top ? But that is what being a professional tennis player is all about. You can see that Azarenka, a player that I also like a lot, but less gifted than Petra (IMO) enjoys being at the top and the pressure that goes with it, and is obvious that her aim is to remain there as long as possible, and that is how it should be. Itīs her job and she is trying to be the best and is already payin off. If Petra doesnīt have that hunger she is never going to get it, and she will become in a very short time a top 20-30 player with occasional flashes of brilliance to remind us of what could have been. Itīs happened before.
Also, she is someone who travels around the world and see her rivals with her teams: coaches, fitness trainers, hitting partners, advisers, etc.. She has been already in the circuit for some years, and has already been at the top of the game, so she must know that something is awfully wrong with her: no fitness training, no hitting partner, no one, as you rightly say to take her to the next level. She must compare herself with others at the top, I guess. I still find it so hard to credit: a potential number one managed as an average semi-professional club player.
I am sure she must know thereīs somethig wrong with how things are arranged for her and she could change easily that situation, and if she doesnīt, maybe is because she doesnīt really wants to, and thatīs where the real problem lies?
The cases of Djokovic and Azarenka should be the path to follow. At a difficult time in their careers they both made great changes (trainers, diets..) and decided they wanted to be at the top and raise their overall level one stage. I am sure some people where left out after those changes for the best, and there is nothing wrong with that.
As you say, weīll see, but you donīt paint a pretty picture at all.

StoneRose
Dec 20th, 2012, 01:07 PM
Thank you so much Excelsior for such a detailed and finely explained and constructed answer (well, article is more like it) I am left speechless after reading some parts of it.Essays are what his posts are often called around here :rolleyes:. I agree with most of of your post.

Cindy and Kate
Dec 20th, 2012, 02:30 PM
Essays are what his posts are often called around here :rolleyes:. I agree with most of of your post.

:lol:
Well, at least they are very well argued.

StoneRose
Dec 20th, 2012, 02:55 PM
:lol:
Well, at least they are very well argued.That's where we have to agree to disagree :).

Excelscior
Dec 20th, 2012, 03:16 PM
Thank you so much Excelsior for such a detailed and finely explained and constructed answer (well, article is more like it) I am left speechless after reading some parts of it. Someone answered one of my post in this thread and told me about the hitting with her PR and I didnīt care to answer..... because I thought it was a joke :lol:
Despite it all, I think that part of the blame lies on Petra herself as someone has already pointed out. Maybe she feels fine with her current state of affairs? I also find so hard to credit that she didnīt like to be number one so early because it was going to change her life:confused:. Then maybe she sould give up tennis, or it is that sheīd rather be a top 10 or even top 20 and not have the pressure of being on top ? But that is what being a professional tennis player is all about. You can see that Azarenka, a player that I also like a lot, but less gifted than Petra (IMO) enjoys being at the top and the pressure that goes with it, and is obvious that her aim is to remain there as long as possible, and that is how it should be. Itīs her job and she is trying to be the best and is already payin off. If Petra doesnīt have that hunger she is never going to get it, and she will become in a very short time a top 20-30 player with occasional flashes of brilliance to remind us of what could have been. Itīs happened before.
Also, she is someone who travels around the world and see her rivals with her teams: coaches, fitness trainers, hitting partners, advisers, etc.. She has been already in the circuit for some years, and has already been at the top of the game, so she must know that something is awfully wrong with her: no fitness training, no hitting partner, no one, as you rightly say to take her to the next level. She must compare herself with others at the top, I guess. I still find it so hard to credit: a potential number one managed as an average semi-professional club player.
I am sure she must know thereīs somethig wrong with how things are arranged for her and she could change easily that situation, and if she doesnīt, maybe is because she doesnīt really wants to, and thatīs where the real problem lies?
The cases of Djokovic and Azarenka should be the path to follow. At a difficult time in their careers they both made great changes (trainers, diets..) and decided they wanted to be at the top and raise their overall level one stage. I am sure some people where left out after those changes for the best, and there is nothing wrong with that.
As you say, weīll see, but you donīt paint a pretty picture at all.

Thank You. And I agree with you whole heartedly.

You asked me what the problem was; so I gave it. :lol: However, you offered the solution (Petra taking charge of her career). No argument there.

And I agree with you, regarding the Azarenka, Djokovic examples. If those two (who both had mental/physical problems and inconsistencies, despite their talent or rankings) could overcome their demons--then accept the challenge of being champion, hopefully Petra can.

I can give you plenty of potential reasons why (if you want them), that she may be the way you described. But for now, we'll just have to wait and see:

1) Does Petra just need to get acclimated to the Big Time? As you know, going by recent examples, sometimes it takes 1-3 yrs to reach your potential and the next major after you win your first and had your initial break through. That was Petra's talent and unburdened confidence/optimism that won in 2011, not her hardened professionalism. Now she starts the next stage.

2) Is her team truly holding her back? I think Petra needs a former slam winning coach or player as an advisor to encourage, prepare, set goals and offer perspective on being a top, young, potential multi-grand slam winning champion and how to deal with it. This set up could offer her great perspective and encouragement; Martina or Slozil for example.

3) Will Petra get tired of not living up to expectations and want to do better herself (and be more determined and take charge), or will she be content with skating along? :shrug:

4) Will her talent shine through anyway (though it would never be where it could, if she had a tight team around her and she was determined), despite if what's written above stays true, and she'll win more than what we think? :scratch:

Stay tuned/We'll see?

Petronius
Dec 20th, 2012, 03:57 PM
I don't want to burst the bubble, but Petra's not regarded as a 'national hero' or 'that special' in the Czech Republic. Her 2011 Wimbledon title is the 41th slam in singles for a Czech-born player in the Open Era and her statistics (so far) are laughable in comparison to Lendl and Navratilova or even Hingis, who is considered here as a Czech player with Swiss passport.
Not to mention that she's still three slams away from Mandlikova and two slams away from Jan Kodeš. :lol:

even if she moves away, she'll spend some time during the off season there with her parents, it's inevitable.

Voice of reason. :yeah: It's all about family and work balance. Better less slams and happier life, than sacrificing everything for tennis, while struggling in personal life.

Apparently, he had Martina Hingis, when she was younger, and she left him and his club, to later great success

This is not true, Martina actually returned from Switzerland to Czechoslovakia in 1991 (sorry, she didn't go to America or Spain :hug:) and joined the Prostejov club and was perfectly happy there until 1998 (already No. 1 and multislam champ). Her results actually went kind of downhill after she left :lol:

'I grew up here in terms of my tennis career, and the club grew with me'

Martina commenting on her Prostejov years for NY Times in 1997.

(http://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/14/sports/hingis-goes-back-to-her-czech-roots.html)


And believe me, even some people in CZ - especially some local people who don't like sport or tennis at all - criticize Petra's manager, because the club gets a very generous cut of the Prostejov city budget and they would like the money to be spent on different things.

C. Drone
Dec 20th, 2012, 04:00 PM
This thread makes my head hurt.

Excelscior
Dec 20th, 2012, 04:13 PM
Thank you so much Excelsior for such a detailed and finely explained and constructed answer (well, article is more like it) I am left speechless after reading some parts of it. Someone answered one of my post in this thread and told me about the hitting with her PR and I didnīt care to answer..... because I thought it was a joke :lol:
Despite it all, I think that part of the blame lies on Petra herself as someone has already pointed out. Maybe she feels fine with her current state of affairs? I also find so hard to credit that she didnīt like to be number one so early because it was going to change her life:confused:. Then maybe she sould give up tennis, or it is that sheīd rather be a top 10 or even top 20 and not have the pressure of being on top ? But that is what being a professional tennis player is all about. You can see that Azarenka, a player that I also like a lot, but less gifted than Petra (IMO) enjoys being at the top and the pressure that goes with it, and is obvious that her aim is to remain there as long as possible, and that is how it should be. Itīs her job and she is trying to be the best and is already payin off. If Petra doesnīt have that hunger she is never going to get it, and she will become in a very short time a top 20-30 player with occasional flashes of brilliance to remind us of what could have been. Itīs happened before.
Also, she is someone who travels around the world and see her rivals with her teams: coaches, fitness trainers, hitting partners, advisers, etc.. She has been already in the circuit for some years, and has already been at the top of the game, so she must know that something is awfully wrong with her: no fitness training, no hitting partner, no one, as you rightly say to take her to the next level. She must compare herself with others at the top, I guess. I still find it so hard to credit: a potential number one managed as an average semi-professional club player.
I am sure she must know thereīs somethig wrong with how things are arranged for her and she could change easily that situation, and if she doesnīt, maybe is because she doesnīt really wants to, and thatīs where the real problem lies?
The cases of Djokovic and Azarenka should be the path to follow. At a difficult time in their careers they both made great changes (trainers, diets..) and decided they wanted to be at the top and raise their overall level one stage. I am sure some people where left out after those changes for the best, and there is nothing wrong with that.
As you say, weīll see, but you donīt paint a pretty picture at all.

This is where the Czech Connection comes in.

If you're management only encourages Czech's and Slovaks in his network, then maybe you don't really care what the other people are doing. :shrug:

Not to get political; but I will. :lol: It's kinda like how the US, makes many of their citizens believe, the US is the best at everything and doesn't need to pay attention or care what Canada, Europe and Japan, etc., does. Cause, you know, only the US perspective is most important. Republican, American politicians actually make fun of Canada and European countries, and rarely bother to even mention Japan, China or Korea, when good ideas to emulate are brought up.

Now whether it's patriotism, comfortability or language (which shouldn't be an issue), Petra probably sees nothing wrong with it. I remember Sam Smith saying on the air last year (a paraphrase) ' she's a nice, polite young girl and says hi with a smile, but she pretty much keeps to herself and the other Czech Players'. So when you hear a description like that, you almost wonder if/when Petra would get a chance to talk to the players about anything beyond "hello, who you playing? And can you believe this rain delay"? The other part of it of course, maybe Petra's passiveness and knowing she's not the major decision maker in her career at the moment and (despite what we're saying) sees nothing wrong with it?

Jane Lane
Dec 20th, 2012, 04:16 PM
This thread makes my head hurt.

This.

Excelscior
Dec 20th, 2012, 04:24 PM
I don't want to burst the bubble, but Petra's not regarded as a 'national hero' or 'that special' in the Czech Republic. Her 2011 Wimbledon title is the 41th slam in singles for a Czech-born player in the Open Era and her statistics (so far) are laughable in comparison to Lendl and Navratilova or even Hingis, who is considered here as a Czech player with Swiss passport.
Not to mention that she's still three slams away from Mandlikova and two slams away from Jan Kodeš. :lol:



Voice of reason. :yeah: It's all about family and work balance. Better less slams and happier life, than sacrificing everything for tennis, while struggling in personal life.



This is not true, Martina actually returned from Switzerland to Czechoslovakia in 1991 (sorry, she didn't go to America or Spain :hug:) and joined the Prostejov club and was perfectly happy there until 1998 (already No. 1 and multislam champ). Her results actually went kind of downhill after she left :lol:

'I grew up here in terms of my tennis career, and the club grew with me'

Martina commenting on her Prostejov years for NY Times in 1997.

(http://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/14/sports/hingis-goes-back-to-her-czech-roots.html)


And believe me, even some people in CZ - especially some local people who don't like sport or tennis at all - criticize Petra's manager, because the club gets a very generous cut of the Prostejov city budget and they would like the money to be spent on different things.


Hey Petronius:

Weren't you the one telling us (numerous times mind you), how much Petra's manager regretted Martina Hingis leaving, and the affect it had on him?

It doesn't matter, when, how; the point is (you told us) he lost her, and how much he regretted it and the effect it may have had on players like Petra later and how he deals with them. You even cited the article and provided the quotes. Would you like me to pull up your post, quote? Nonetheless, that wasn't even the focus (or any callus belle) of mine. There was more than enough other material.

I know it's not easy to see Petra's and her Czech affiliation discussed this openly on GM. You seemed to have mixed emotions about her management (common sense vs Czech Nationalism). But Unclesilas genuinely sought further clarification and explanation. However, this doesn't mean you have to denigrate Petra's record compared to other Czech's. That's the past and history. We love and know how great those other Czech players were. But we're talking about NOW! What/who do they have to root for NOW!? Is it Barbora Záhlavová-Strýcová, Lucie Safarova and Klára Zakopalováetc, etc..? Come on Petronius! :lol:

And the irony is; you were the same one telling us--how much/how fast the FED CUP was sold out and how much Petra being there would mean to the Czech crowd. Remember, there were some of us who thought she should skip the Fed Cup coming off illness. And there were others, such as yourself who felt she should play in some capacity--not to disappoint the "sell out" crowd. Remember? :scratch:

You can't have it both ways. I know you probably didn't mean to come off as aggressive, defensive and dismissive as you did earlier (I, and we all do that occasionally). :lol: So no biggie/no harm there.

Hey. I don't like talking about Petra's team either (especially here on GM). However, until IT, PETRA or THINGS change/s; it is what it is. :shrug:

JarkaFish
Dec 20th, 2012, 04:50 PM
This thread makes my head hurt.
Well, don't ever visit Petra's player forum because it's pretty much like this 24/7.

Excelscior
Dec 20th, 2012, 05:02 PM
Well, don't ever visit Petra's player forum because it's pretty much like this 24/7.

Isn't funny and ironic how some posters can discuss Serena, Venus, Masha or Wozniaki ad nauseum/all day, in a myriad of ways on GM. However, when it's Petra (only occasionally, mind you), 'it makes their head hurt'. :lol: :tape: :lol:

SMH

And as far as her management and career direction on her subforum: That hasn't been discussed in a while. And when it done; it wouldn't be any different than any other players (and they're many) discussion when they're not living up to expectations and appear to have a shaky team or management. Nothing new there.

Novichok
Dec 20th, 2012, 05:08 PM
:lol:
Well, at least they are very well argued.

:lol:

He and Shvedbarilescu are cut from the same cloth.

tennisbum79
Dec 20th, 2012, 08:31 PM
I thought we did not care about exho around here. So why are posters up in arm over this loss?

I can only speculate "the woman with potentials" usually does a good job beating up really bad lesser players.
This is where she had built her reputation of the next "big thing".
Because when she meets these players, they are often over matched by her power, her ability to redirect the ball with pace and her shot making from anywhere on the court.

But she usually fails to show up on big occasions when she is confronted with the elites she want to be part of.
(For full disclosure, this is where I have often criticized her and have not endeared myself with some of her ardent fans)


This is why this exho defeat which should not mean too much for other elites players, is causing concerns among Petra's supporters and those who have been waiting for her to finally cash in those potentials she has been lauded for.
Patience is increasingly giving way to anxiety and fear of unrealized potentials.

aloeball
Dec 20th, 2012, 10:12 PM
Well, don't ever visit Petra's player forum because it's pretty much like this 24/7.

:lol: I kinda agree but...

Isn't funny and ironic how some posters can discuss Serena, Venus, Masha or Wozniaki ad nauseum/all day, in a myriad of ways on GM. However, when it's Petra (only occasionally, mind you), 'it makes their head hurt'. :lol: :tape: :lol:



This is also true :lol: hypocrisy but what else do I expect




This is why this exho defeat which should not mean too much for other elites players, is causing concerns among Petra's supporters and those who have been waiting for her to finally cash in those potentials she has been lauded for.
Patience is increasingly giving way to anxiety and fear of unrealized potentials.

You're a nice poster but exaggeration is also something this forum highlights ;)

These results even though are exo's are too tight to disregard. Hopefully this girl actually develops a good team for 2013. But in the meantime, I'll celebrate Serena's success :)

Jane Lane
Dec 20th, 2012, 10:15 PM
Isn't funny and ironic how some posters can discuss Serena, Venus, Masha or Wozniaki ad nauseum/all day, in a myriad of ways on GM. However, when it's Petra (only occasionally, mind you), 'it makes their head hurt'. :lol: :tape: :lol:

SMH

And as far as her management and career direction on her subforum: That hasn't been discussed in a while. And when it done; it wouldn't be any different than any other players (and they're many) discussion when they're not living up to expectations and appear to have a shaky team or management. Nothing new there.

Because Petra is the only player you bother to write ridiculous research theses about.

delicatecutter
Dec 20th, 2012, 10:22 PM
Oh dear.

missvarsha
Dec 21st, 2012, 12:59 AM
Krotttt !

Ludmilla has finally realized that in order to convincingly pull of her sham breathing problems, she can't always claim they happen only on hard courts.

tennisbum79
Dec 21st, 2012, 02:29 AM
Krotttt !

Ludmilla has finally realized that in order to convincingly pull of her sham breathing problems, she can't always claim they happen only on hard courts.
Good point.
But again, this an exho, so you can't really hold her to that

King Halep
Dec 21st, 2012, 03:41 AM
Kostya is more concerned about her peaking at the right time in Jan, when the hopman cup is on.

Excelscior
Dec 21st, 2012, 04:26 AM
I am glad you thought the same. I donīt think Petra is fat, but it is obvious that she is a bit overweight (and only for a professional tennis player, I donīt mean it disrespectfully like others) not too much, but still a bit. She was slimmer in 2011 and moved so much better, thatīs what I mean. She is a tall strong woman and is never going to be the skinny type, and she is never either going to move like Radwanska or Errani, but she doesnīt need to, she just need to move good enough again to get comfortably into her hitting zone and then she can be unplayable. Sharapova has improved immensely in that field.
I got your response but I am still puzzled. Itīs her manager then, but her coach, parents... they all agree? Is her circle so so close ? Why did her previous fitnees coach leave? I think he was a middle aged good looking man who used to sit besides her coach. Maybe she should change all her team, coach included and start anew?

It's funny you said that. I wonder if, when we'll ever see her move like this again? :lol:

Kvitova vs Stosur 2011 AO Highlights
cCNZwjeekwo

There's also a longer 23 min video by TopTenTennisNetwork of her match vs Penetta at the same tournament/major.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt-gCP_quTg

I don't think her movement is only a fitness issue. I think it's also a desire issue. Obviously, she's fit and slim in these highlights. But you also notice, she has the desire and motivation (and footwork) to wanna run these balls down?

On a similar subject: Believe it or not, I think THE LACK OF A MALE HITTING PARTNER could have hurt Petra more last year, than the much discussed fitness (with all her ailments and problems).

I say this, cause they're many tournaments, where Petra is not sharp from the start and has to work her way into form. And even if/when she does, and she faces a Sharapova, Serena or even a Li Na (at times), she makes errors, cause she hasn't practiced properly for that pace (despite her own equal or superior pace).

Now, Petra's so naturally talented, her team probably feels that they can get away with this. But for how long? Until proven otherwise; the stakes appear much higher for 2013. Serena, Vika, Masha, Aga and even Kerber have stepped up their game. And of course, Li Na, and now Petrova--again are always dangerous.

Petra's so unpredictable, you never know what to expect. And if she's just consistent and strong in any individual areas (mind you multiples of them), she can win--big on a escalating scale for each area she's solid in. So I definitely won't count her out, or be surprised by anything I see from her next year. Not at all.

Hopefully, her management and coach, get their act together for 2013. And most importantly (especially if they don't); Petra will!

As usual; we'll see?

Note: Thank You for the video embed AussieSharapova

sweetadri06
Dec 21st, 2012, 04:34 AM
It's funny you said that. I wonder if, when we'll ever see her move like this again? :lol:

Kvitova vs Stosur 2011 AO Highlights
cCNZwjeekwo

There's also a longer 23 min video by TopTenTennisNetwork of her match vs Penetta at the same tournament/major.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt-gCP_quTg

I don't think her movement is only a fitness issue. I think it's also a desire issue. Obviously, she's fit and slim in these highlights. But you also notice, she has the desire and motivation (and footwork) to wanna run these balls down?

On a similar subject: Believe it or not, I think THE LACK OF A MALE HITTING PARTNER could have hurt Petra more last year, than the much discussed fitness (with all her ailments and problems).

I say this, cause they're many tournaments, where Petra is not sharp from the start and has to work her way into form. And even if/when she does, and she faces a Sharapova, Serena or even a Li Na (at times), she makes errors, cause she hasn't practiced properly for that pace (despite her own equal or superior pace).

Now, Petra's so naturally talented, her team probably feels that they can get away with this. But for how long? Until proven otherwise; the stakes appear much higher for 2013. Serena, Vika, Masha, Aga and even Kerber have stepped up their game. And of course, Li Na, and now Petrova--again are always dangerous.

Petra's so unpredictable, you never know what to expect. And if she's just consistent and strong in any individual areas (mind you multiples of them), she can win--big on a escalating scale for each area she's solid in. So I definitely won't count her out, or be surprised by anything I see from her next year. Not at all.

Hopefully, her management and coach, get their act together for 2013. And most importantly (especially if they don't); Petra will!

As usual; we'll see?

Note: Thank You for the video embed AussieSharapova

Again the key for Kvitova is not moving like a Kerber or Wozniacki, she isn't built for that. But if she commit herself to better fitness so she can make some of these shots it's only going to make her much better. she also seemed to have much more desire in 2011, so get that back too.

Charlatan
Dec 21st, 2012, 04:39 AM
Wow!

Where do I start? :lol:

I tried to be polite, discreet and respectful. :lol:

But yes, it's her management.

They are not set up like the management of top 10, young Wimbledon, future potential multi Grand Slam champion. They're set up like a top 100-200 player operation. And they possess too many conflicts of interest, all controlled by one person.

I, along with others, have spoken about this Plenty in Petra's subforum. But I've never went into detail here on GM. And I still won't. It's just too many examples. However, I'll try to give a decent overview. :lol:

1) Her Manager/Management seems to only hire Czech's or Slovak's within his network. Now, I don't have a problem with that if they're the best people. However, if they're not and/or presents significant delays to Petra's development, then that's a problem.

Her last Fitness Person was Ivanko. That was the gentlemen you were mentioning. He was very good actually. But he was let go. Her new fitness person (another Management choice), appears to be nothing to write home about, and almost embarrassing for a player of Petra's caliber. Trust me. :lol: That's a problem!

2) Her Manager (who's not a coach or tennis player, but a business man) actually chooses her coaches and even peripheral staff. That choice should be between Petra and her coach (and or independent tennis advisors she consults with). But her manager actually publicly brags that he's the one calling the shots and controls Petra's decision making. Can you believe that? Tacky!

And even her current coach (David Kotyza), who shows promise in some areas, and lack of promise in others; is a stooge of her manager. I think his hearts in the right place. Nonetheless he's a YES MAN for her manager. And I doubt, Petra will receive outside help (specialist--for example--to work on different tennis areas) anytime soon, if ever, at all.

3) Her Management has massive conflicts of interest. He owns/runs the Prostojev club; he's Petra's personal Manager (with massive control over her personell, career and events participation). He's a Czech Tournament promoter (Fed Cup, Prague 100K and Extraliga); and Prostojev is involved with player development as well. He's also manager of Tomas Berdych and Lucie Safarova, who are also members of the Protojev club, just as a FYI. And of course he's active in Politics.

Because of the various conflicts of interest, Petra is frequently asked (and he's actually bragged in Czech publications that he can get Petra to do what he wants) to promote or play in his silly events--even when she should be home resting/preparing for Slams or out the country practicing on outdoor hard courts, as opposed to indoor in cold ass Czech Republic. So you know; Prostojev is mainly an indoor facility.

You know, Petra hadn't had a male hitting Partner all year in 2012? Last year, she periodically used her boyfriend--Adam (also a member of her Managers Prostojev club by the way) to hit with, and look at the results she had? This year, the only time, I can recall she hit with a male hitting partner, was when she hit with the Prostojev Junior boys. Yes, you read right. :lol: And the irony of that?....Petra actually extolled the virtues of hitting with a male hitting partner (albeit junior boys), but she hadn't had one all year. Come to think of it; she hit with a Junior boy (in Adam), periodically last year as well. Amazing! SMH.

How in the world does a player with Petra's stature and presumed expectations, not have a part time, per diem or full time male hitting partners? :shrug:

4) Petra was diagnosed with asthma in 2009 at the US Open. And it appears they had taken three years to find the proper inhaler. Why? They had a host of the world doctors to choose from, and it appeared they only focused on their local Czech doctors to find the solution. Puzzling. And you can say this about practically every decision her team makes. They don't operate like a top team. And to make it worse, Petra trust them and appears to not encourage or insist in her own decision making.

5) This would explain why Martina Navratilova has said more than a few times on Tennis Channel "I don't know what's wrong with that kid, she doesn't contact me", when asked by Lindsay or her other broadcast partners on the air. This year at Fed Cup, Martina wasn't initially invited. :eek: Yes it's true. Apparently, it was a dis by one of the Czech tennis Big wigs that her manager cozies up with. It appears they may encourage her (directly or indirectly), not to speak to outside tennis advisors, due to their established, internal Czech Cliques? :help:

Former Steffi Graf coach, and Czech Pavel Složil , stated in a Czech magazine article that Petra should seek out Djokovic's people regarding her conditioning, diet, asthma and further fitness. And I agree. You see, Pavel is an independent Czech, not affiliated with Petra's manager, so speaks freely like any other normal person would. Unfortunately, I highly doubt she will.

And here in lies the big problem (and why I wrote so long :lol: ). Petra's hasn't taken charge of her career yet. And the people she has (in my opinion) don't appear to be able to take her to the next level. They caught lightening in bottle with Petra in 2011. And it was her talent, youthful optimism and confidence, which carried her through. Don't get me wrong. They did their parts/job. However, Petra needs additional support, advisors, fitness, practice and mental strength, etc., if she's to fulfill her promise. Unfortunately, her management (who appears to make the decisions) seems content, with using the people they have in their network, even if they may not be the most qualified, reputable or convenient choices.

Petra has earned enough money and the reputation (in tennis circles) to hire the best or at least top notch people in assisting her to potential greatness. However, for most of the year she didn't have an actual team. At first it was Petra, her coach and Fitness instructor. When he left, it became only Petra and her coach, until Katie The PR LADY (probably from WTA) traveled with them. And in Montreal it got so bad, that Petra actually hit with Katie before her matches there. Now give Petra credit, she won Montreal (though she could have very well lost in the first round). But how in the world can you hit with your PR Lady, who's not even a tennis player? SMH

Pavel Složil , mentioned in his interview, that he used to have Steffi hit with the top male players (and I mean the VERY top) after an easy match to get her reps. Now, not only did Petra not have any male hitting parter in 2012 in any capacity, but I've never heard of her hitting with Tomas Berdych (despite the management connection) at any slam or combined event. SMH

Until things change, Petra's team from top to bottom is just not anything to write home about. As a matter of fact, it's kind of embarrassing for a player of her caliber and recent, current success and alleged aspirations.

In short: It's like Petra has a Bad Father/Controller/Coach, that can't let go (and neither can she for that matter). Yeah, we've all seen, heard that before. The difference is; it's a greedy businessman out to further his won self interest and ego--many times at Petra's expense and detriment, I feel. She could get rid of him tomorrow if she wanted (or choose her own people to work with, if he insisted on keeping her). We know, Petra doesn't need and can get rid of him. It happens all the time with player, managers. Granted; it's a little more difficult with your mother or father as coach or manager. But that happens to. :lol:

Hopefully (though I'm not counting on it anytime soon), Petra will. We'll see? :scratch:

Oh. Petra doesn't have to change her citizenship. I was just saying she can move from the Czech Republic. Not just for him, But for a warm weather climate, like most players do. Last year she got sick, cause her team had her heal her Achilles during the season--while the Czech Republic was in a deep freeze. Ironically, she was resting at home, due to the injury she suffered playing at her managers Extraliga tournament (this tournament here, last year). That virus she caught, also drained her for Indian Wells, and may have contributed to her picking up that stomach virus there.

I agree. Petra should have more input in her career, regarding who she wants and works with. Currently, her manager picks the people first; strongly encourages it, then Petra and Kotyza rubber stamp it. :lol:

Yes, you would think he would do what's best for her to make more money. But no. For example, Extraliga won't make him any extra money from Petra, but he wants her there, as well as other promotional (tennis and non tennis), events he's affiliated with. It's all hubris, to say she was there. Those are the sort of things that Petra can say a polite no to. He knows these things as well. However, he still tells the media things like (when they ask) "don't worry, I'll convince her to play Fed Cup next year, if she hasn't committed to it yet', in regards to her rest and/or focusing on the majors. The nerve!

Oh. I agree with you with Adam. And Petra already said he could beat her. My point was, they were too cheap or unimaginative to hire a male hitting partner for Petra altogether. This year she's had none, except the Prostojev junior boys before Istanbul. Last year, it was just every once in a while, till Adam focused more on his own career.

If I was her, I would leave them and the Czech Republic altogether. What are they going to do, knock her off? She's a famous tennis player, national hero. That's bad publicity.

I know. They're other ways. :eek: :lol: :eek: But you know what I mean. :)

Can you do me a favor and write papers for my class? At least, you will get paid that way. Thanks :)

Brad[le]y.
Dec 21st, 2012, 04:44 AM
Excelscior :tears: so much fuss over an exhibition. :spit:

Mynarco
Dec 21st, 2012, 04:49 AM
All these essays lol

Yellow Moon
Dec 21st, 2012, 04:51 AM
Can you do me a favor and write papers for my class? At least, you will get paid that way. Thanks :)
and for my class too :cool:. On top of previous, we pay in dollars that r stronger :lick:,

Cajka
Dec 21st, 2012, 04:53 AM
Can you do me a favor and write papers for my class? At least, you will get paid that way. Thanks :)

The post started with: "Where do I start?", but I believe we all had a different question in our minds while scrolling down. :lol:

Excelscior
Dec 21st, 2012, 06:55 AM
y.;22608969']Excelscior :tears: so much fuss over an exhibition. :spit:

Oh No. :lol:

Those detailed responses, have nothing to do with the exhibition result. That doesn't matter to me. I never even mentioned or acknowledged it.

This was just Mumbo Jumbo talk. :lol:

I was responding to other posters genuine, specific questions (to me), regarding Petra's 2012, both overall and in a certain requested detail. It just turned into a running (ahem), expressive dialogue. :lol:

I don't comment on, or because of exo's, like that. Never have.

tennisbum79
Dec 21st, 2012, 07:11 AM
Oh No. :lol:

Those detailed responses, have nothing to do with the exhibition result. That doesn't matter to me. I never even mentioned or acknowledged it.

This was just Mumbo Jumbo talk. :lol:

I was responding to other posters genuine, specific questions (to me), regarding Petra's 2012, both overall and in a certain requested detail. It just turned into a running (ahem), expressive dialogue. :lol:

I don't comment on, or because of exo's, like that. Never have.
I actually like your comments. I think they are insightful.


BUT, if you know(as you stated) they are off topic as far as the thread subject is concerned, why post them here.
They could have been the opening post in a thread of their own.
I am sure your would have gotten more positive reaction to your detailed post.

Excelscior
Dec 21st, 2012, 07:40 AM
I actually like your comments. I think they are insightful.


BUT, if you know(as you stated) they are off topic as far as the thread subject is concerned, why post them here.
They could have been the opening post in a thread of their own.
I am sure your would have gotten more positive reaction to your detailed post.

Come on now. Because they were requested. :lol:

You mean you didn't read through the threads? I'm disappointed. :shrug:

Just messing with you. :lol: :lol:

I don't want to pull up the specific thread. But basically, it goes like this: Poster commented on how Petra looked in the photographs from the exo. He felt she didn't look as big as some commentors were stating. I chimed in and agreed. Then the commentor made his own insightful comments about Petra, then asked me what I thought. After trying not to go in specific detail about 3X (to what I responded to and his follow ups, cause I had about a years worth of material, for this insightful, curious poster), I finally relented, and "Whala", you got that manifesto on her management team. :lol:

Believe it or not, I actually condensed it. :lol: But I knew the poster/requester would appreciate a vivid picture and not just the vague, innuendo, cliche ridden dialogue I was trying to pass off on him previously, due to the subject matter. :lol:

A similar, but lesser dialogue (in frequency, not size of the post), occurred with another poster, spurred on by my initial comments/response to the "Manifesto" poster.

So though I never talked about the Exo itself. The dialogue was inspired by, and came out of it. And thanks for the Dap.

Cindy and Kate
Dec 21st, 2012, 10:25 AM
Oh No. :lol:

Those detailed responses, have nothing to do with the exhibition result. That doesn't matter to me. I never even mentioned or acknowledged it.

This was just Mumbo Jumbo talk. :lol:

I was responding to other posters genuine, specific questions (to me), regarding Petra's 2012, both overall and in a certain requested detail. It just turned into a running (ahem), expressive dialogue. :lol:

I don't comment on, or because of exo's, like that. Never have.

Thatīs right. These posts of Excelsior belong mainly to a particular question I asked him about Petraīs team, nothing to do with the exhibition. Such a fuss about nothing.

Coconut91
Dec 21st, 2012, 11:13 AM
I don't mind if the thread is "derailed" with actual information and insightful analysis of the player in question.
Mashatards v Serenatards derailments on the other hand are much more frequent, unpleasant and uncalled-for...

As for this match, I don't think we should read too much into it, but it's true that Petra's team doesn't look professional enough for a player of her status and capabilities. But I hope you're wrong Excelsior. ;)

Cindy and Kate
Dec 21st, 2012, 11:51 AM
I don't mind if the thread is "derailed" with actual information and insightful analysis of the player in question.
Mashatards v Serenatards derailments on the other hand are much more frequent, unpleasant and uncalled-for...

As for this match, I don't think we should read too much into it, but it's true that Petra's team doesn't look professional enough for a player of her status and capabilities. But I hope you're wrong Excelsior. ;)

Thatīs right too. To me, Excelsiorīs answers to my questions seemed plausible and very well argued , but it doesnīt mean everyone has to agree with them. He raised some very interesting points. I prefer posts like these to the usual niceties I have seen in other threads about this particular player: Fat, useless, pregnant..

Petronius
Dec 21st, 2012, 01:37 PM
I don't mind if the thread is "derailed" with actual information and insightful analysis of the player in question.

This.

I've just read an article in Forbes on how the Twitter corporation is run and they strongly encourage 'off-topic' discussions like this (the similar culture is in many Internet companies). They know that the best ideas may appear at any time, when something completely different is being discussed (during lunch, on golf course, etc.).

So you'll never know what can spring up from these discussions :lol:

Cajka
Dec 21st, 2012, 02:16 PM
I actually like your comments. I think they are insightful.


BUT, if you know(as you stated) they are off topic as far as the thread subject is concerned, why post them here.
They could have been the opening post in a thread of their own.
I am sure your would have gotten more positive reaction to your detailed post.

Yes, it went off topic, but at least it's still about Petra (and about Excelscior :oh:). We should be happy that it didn't become another Serena vs. Maria thread. Maybe bandabou and Mr. Today came here in one moment (with their usual plans), but when they saw Excelscior, UNCLESILAS and me writing essays about Petra's weight, her manager, patriotism, winters in Europe, Ana's coach, maybe it was too much for them.

Cindy and Kate
Dec 21st, 2012, 03:06 PM
Yes, it went off topic, but at least it's still about Petra (and about Excelscior :oh:). We should be happy that it didn't become another Serena vs. Maria thread. Maybe bandabou and Mr. Today came here in one moment (with their usual plans), but when they saw Excelscior, UNCLESILAS and me writing essays about Petra's weight, her manager, patriotism, winters in Europe, Ana's coach, maybe it was too much for them.

:lol::lol:
Yes, I was surprised by some of the drama queen reactions: headaches, faints... It makes me wonder about the age of some of the posters around here. About 14 ?

Cajka
Dec 21st, 2012, 03:14 PM
:lol::lol:
Yes, I was surprised by some of the drama queen reactions: headaches, faints... It makes me wonder about the age of some of the posters around here. About 14 ?

Oh, those were jokes, I took them lightly, although I was involved in this few pages long off topic discussion. Excelscior wasn't too upset, as he shouldn't be. People made jokes about the length of his posts, nobody actually attacked him or called him names. If I were in his place, I'd make jokes at my own expense.

Excelscior
Dec 21st, 2012, 03:44 PM
I don't mind if the thread is "derailed" with actual information and insightful analysis of the player in question.
Mashatards v Serenatards derailments on the other hand are much more frequent, unpleasant and uncalled-for...

As for this match, I don't think we should read too much into it, but it's true that Petra's team doesn't look professional enough for a player of her status and capabilities. But I hope you're wrong Excelsior. ;)

And @ UncleSilas

Yes Lord, I hope I'm Wrong!!! :lol: :eek: :lol:

Actually, like I said in some of the other additional post: It wouldn't surprise me (despite the TEAM situation this year) what she does. And hopefully Petra (in some or all her facets) and her team, have a better year next 2013. :yeah:

tennisbum79
Dec 21st, 2012, 03:46 PM
Come on now. Because they were requested. :lol:

You mean you didn't read through the threads? I'm disappointed. :shrug:

Just messing with you. :lol: :lol:

I don't want to pull up the specific thread. But basically, it goes like this: Poster commented on how Petra looked in the photographs from the exo. He felt she didn't look as big as some commentors were stating. I chimed in and agreed. Then the commentor made his own insightful comments about Petra, then asked me what I thought. After trying not to go in specific detail about 3X (to what I responded to and his follow ups, cause I had about a years worth of material, for this insightful, curious poster), I finally relented, and "Whala", you got that manifesto on her management team. :lol:

Believe it or not, I actually condensed it. :lol: But I knew the poster/requester would appreciate a vivid picture and not just the vague, innuendo, cliche ridden dialogue I was trying to pass off on him previously, due to the subject matter. :lol:

A similar, but lesser dialogue (in frequency, not size of the post), occurred with another poster, spurred on by my initial comments/response to the "Manifesto" poster.

So though I never talked about the Exo itself. The dialogue was inspired by, and came out of it. And thanks for the Dap.

I still feel it would have been more useful had you created another thread dedicated to the point you made.
Yes, I understand the questions you addressed were asked in this thread, but you could say in the opening post that you are creating a separate, because you feel these questions deserve serious considerations (and discussion) therefore a thread of their own.


That is just my take, because I too think your post deserve better treatment than the dismissive, push aside, annoyed-at-you comments it got because it was off topic.
And I don't necessarily begrudge the posters who reacted that way, because, let's face it, the post (and the original questions) was off topic.

Excelscior
Dec 21st, 2012, 03:59 PM
Oh, those were jokes, I took them lightly, although I was involved in this few pages long off topic discussion. Excelscior wasn't too upset, as he shouldn't be. People made jokes about the length of his posts, nobody actually attacked him or called him names. If I were in his place, I'd make jokes at my own expense.


Yes, what we did was almost incestuous. :eek: :eek:

It was like fans of the almost/sometimes kool kids (Ana and Petra) in high school joined forces in almost silent protest against their older or more prominent Web Board Bullies by their sheer communication and not knowing their place.

How dare we break the Holy Serena, Masha, Venus, Wozniaki, off topic/derailment tree, by discussing perpetual stand by/in waiting subjects of Kvitova and Ivanovic.

Come on. We were supposed to wait our turn (for some real news) or till the REAL tournaments started again. Don't you know that??

It was either that, or the two simultaneously popular but fringe fan bases fight each other for more off season relevance and positioning, by pillaging each players recent also ran status and brief/potentially fading Tennis Royalty and Glory.

So we wuz Baaaaad (like a sheep) BOYS! :lol: :help: :lol:

Excelscior
Dec 21st, 2012, 04:16 PM
I still feel it would have been more useful had you created another thread dedicated to the point you made.
Yes, I understand the questions you addressed were asked in this thread, but you could say in the opening post that you are creating a separate, because you feel these questions deserve serious considerations (and discussion) therefore a thread of their own.


That is just my take, because I too think your post deserve better treatment than the dismissive, push aside, annoyed-at-you comments it got because it was off topic.
And I don't necessarily begrudge the posters who reacted that way, because, let's face it, the post (and the original questions) was off topic.

I appreciate your comments, suggestions and input.

However, it wasn't worth starting another thread for. It was a specific topic, based on the subject matter at hand. So you can certainly say it was in bounds. I've seen Serena, Masha, Wozniaki threads, go so far off topic you don't recognize them (they're not about tennis or the players and become severely personal).

And I don't mind what the other posters say (most times). :lol: Hey! It's an open forum.

Once again, I definitely appreciate your comments and interest.

Thanks.

marineblue
Dec 21st, 2012, 05:30 PM
[QUOTE=Excelscior;22610588]I appreciate your comments, suggestions and input.

However, it wasn't worth starting another thread for. It was a specific topic, based on the subject matter at hand. So you can certainly say it was in bounds. I've seen Serena, Masha, Wozniaki threads, go so far off topic you don't recognize them (they're not about tennis or the players and become severely personal).

Yeah, also thanks to your own input.:lol:

Excelscior
Dec 21st, 2012, 05:52 PM
[QUOTE=Excelscior;22610588]I appreciate your comments, suggestions and input.

However, it wasn't worth starting another thread for. It was a specific topic, based on the subject matter at hand. So you can certainly say it was in bounds. I've seen Serena, Masha, Wozniaki threads, go so far off topic you don't recognize them (they're not about tennis or the players and become severely personal).

Yeah, also thanks to your own input.:lol:

Good Lord. Why you had to come and spoil the good vibrations (plus lie)? :lol: :oh: :lol:

Come on now. Find one quote, where I ever made an exclusive personal attack on Wozniaki? I bet you can't find one. It's always about the tennis. :yeah:

As a matter of fact, the last thread where posters were making all kinds of personal insults and taking pot shots against Wozniaki, I steadfastly defended her (remember, the "racist" Serena imitation, Exo topic in Brazil)?? :eek:

Not sure if you were joking. I'll give you a pass if you were. :) But if you weren't (even a little bit) or trolling: This is where you lose any credibility as a legitimate poster. Because in your eyes, everyone is a sworn, hated enemy of Caroline, cause we don't always see eye to eye on her Tennis, and need for attention. No biggie though!

Wozniaki, is off mine (and many other peoples) radar, unless some legitimate news comes up. And so many times, Wozniaki, her father or even her stans here--are the ones to try to drub up some controversy, even in other players unrelated threads.

I sincerely wish her the best for 2013.

tennisbum79
Dec 21st, 2012, 05:55 PM
However, it wasn't worth starting another thread for. It was a specific topic, based on the subject matter at hand. So you can certainly say it was in bounds. I've seen Serena, Masha, Wozniaki threads, go so far off topic you don't recognize them (they're not about tennis or the players and become severely personal).

.



But NO, that was not the opinion of the posters, and that is what count when it comes to off/on topic
Whether you agree or not, the overwhelming majority of the posters who brushed off your post think it was off topic.

I think it is based on general agreement here that exho results threads are not a good place to spawn serious discussion, especially if the perception the said discussion is based on the result; for the exho results are not supposed to have any implications on the careers/future results/performance of the 2 players who provided the entertainment .


So the perception ,which I understand you disagree with, was that you were trying to derail the thread.

For fear of risking to contradict myself, I don't want to belabor the point, so that is my last intervention in this parenthesis.

marineblue
Dec 21st, 2012, 06:10 PM
Good Lord. Why you had to come and spoil the good vibrations (plus lie)? :lol: :oh: :lol:

Come on now. Find one quote, where I ever made an exclusive personal attack on Wozniaki? I bet you can't find one. It's always about the tennis.

As a matter of fact, the last thread where posters were taking all kinds of personal insults and pot shots against Wozniaki, I steadfastly defended her (remember, the "racist" Serena imitation, exo in Brazil).

Not sure if you were joking. I'll give you a pass if you were. :) But if you weren't (even a little bit) or trolling: This is where you lose any credibility as a legitimate poster. Because in your eyes, everyone is a sworn, hated enemy of Caroline, cause we don't always see eye to eye on or her Tennis, and need for attention.

Good vibrations?:rolleyes: I am afraid youīre yet to learn to spread any. Those who have been on TF for a while remember your īgloriousī contributions in not just Wozthreads but also threads about other players:hysteric:. There is no need for scrolling through your mini essays to find examples.
You are all the things you accuse me off,actually. If someone was not in awe of Kvitty and commented on her results Excelsior would be there,ready to :toothy: But hey, I guess thatīs just your personality. TF wouldnīt be it without its characters.;)

Excelscior
Dec 21st, 2012, 06:33 PM
Good vibrations?:rolleyes: I am afraid youīre yet to learn to spread any. Those who have been on TF for a while remember your īgloriousī contributions in not just Wozthreads but also threads about other players:hysteric:. There is no need for scrolling through your mini essays to find examples.
You are all the things you accuse me off,actually. If someone was not in awe of Kvitty and commented on her results Excelsior would be there,ready to :toothy: But hey, I guess thatīs just your personality. TF wouldnīt be it without its characters.;)

Can't understand what you're saying? :shrug:

Nonetheless, as I stated: I don't make personal attacks about other players (as you indicated), especially in those crazy threads. That's other posters. Nuff said. I'll leave it at that.

I must say I find it richly ironic and classless, you didn't even acknowledge (cause I just mentioned it to you) the fact, that I was one of Caro's strongest supporters during that whole faux Serena EXO debacle, while you're here accusing me of always taking personal shots at her. SMH like a wet dog. :lol: But it's all good.

Now, I'm not going to let you derail THIS thread by discussing Caro (as you do so many others), so I'm gonna stop here. It was a pleasure speaking with you as usual.

Thanks for your input and good luck with Caro in 2013. I wish her the best!!

Excelscior
Dec 21st, 2012, 07:07 PM
Can you do me a favor and write papers for my class? At least, you will get paid that way. Thanks :)

Funny/Thanks! :)

Cindy and Kate
Dec 21st, 2012, 07:41 PM
Oh, those were jokes, I took them lightly, although I was involved in this few pages long off topic discussion. Excelscior wasn't too upset, as he shouldn't be. People made jokes about the length of his posts, nobody actually attacked him or called him names. If I were in his place, I'd make jokes at my own expense.

Reading some of the posts I am not so sure about that.

tennisbum79
Dec 21st, 2012, 08:11 PM
Reading some of the posts I am not so sure about that.
I agree. Cajka is being way too generous

Cajka
Dec 21st, 2012, 08:33 PM
Reading some of the posts I am not so sure about that.

I agree. Cajka is being way too generous

IDK, I thought people said they were gonna get a headache because of long posts and overanalyzing in this thread. I never read too much into such comments. :lol:

C. Drone
Dec 21st, 2012, 09:41 PM
I don't mind if the thread is "derailed" with actual information and insightful analysis of the player in question.
Mashatards v Serenatards derailments on the other hand are much more frequent, unpleasant and uncalled-for...

As for this match, I don't think we should read too much into it, but it's true that Petra's team doesn't look professional enough for a player of her status and capabilities. But I hope you're wrong Excelsior. ;)

I dont care if its derailed since the extraliga match as starting topic is pretty much unimportant.
The "actual information and insightful analysis" part is questionable, to me most of the time it just sounds like tedious speculations. But I'm not reading czech articles all day long & solving a mysterious puzzle, so obviously my word means nothing.

Excelscior
Dec 21st, 2012, 10:42 PM
I dont care if its derailed since the extraliga match as starting topic is pretty much unimportant.
The "actual information and insightful analysis" part is questionable, to me most of the time it just sounds like tedious speculations. But I'm not reading czech articles all day long & solving a mysterious puzzle, so obviously my word means nothing.

Hmmmh.

You must have lost your reading comprehension or translation skills along with your name change. :lol: :help: :lol:

"Speculation", could be any opinion or analysis provided (which I always pointed out, if/when I did-- mind you) of the situation. OK. So maybe I get that one (though everyone offers an opinion here. It's a fan website).

More importantly: How could you conveniently overlook the assortment and preponderance of easily proven historical facts, events, quotes, paraphrases, citations and excerpts that I provided (from various articles and broadcast)? :eek:

There's nothing new or secret here. :lol: This is all just stuff we lived and experienced over the course of the past two seasons.

As any fan or close observer of Petra can tell you: Her people are quite honest with the Czech press to many of their embarrassing mistakes, activities and foibles. :lol:

Nonetheless; how is this any worse than the assortment of childish, petulant, threatening, highly personal, insulting, expletive strewn, over the top 30 pg long diatribes (that almost have nothing to do with tennis), that come out of many of the Masha, Serena threads? :scratch:

Just be honest, and say 'I don't like this much dialogue/talk being given to Petra Kvitova" and call it a day :lol:

C. Drone
Dec 21st, 2012, 11:03 PM
^ do I really have to answer this or can I call it a day? :crying2:

Excelscior
Dec 21st, 2012, 11:09 PM
^ do I really have to answer this or can I call it a day? :crying2:

Please; just call it a day. :yeah:

Thank You. :lol:

You don't have to like or agree with anything written on TF, for sure. No problem with that. :lol: