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pattyclijsters
Dec 4th, 2012, 11:14 PM
Who will be the next to winthe so called Karen Krantzcke Sportmanship Award? My guess is Ana or Aga... They both seem to be liked by other players :-)



Kim won it for the eighth time in 2012 :worship: ! Basically every time she played a full season since 2000 (plus 2009):eek:

"The Karen Krantzcke Sportsmanship Award, recognizing professionalism, attitude and sense of fair play [...] voted for by the WTA players themselves."

What a nice goodbye for Kim! And especially nice, since it is voted by fellow players who must have the best insight!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Jimmie48
Dec 4th, 2012, 11:18 PM
Rodionova or Putintseva, obviously...

lenas warriors
Dec 4th, 2012, 11:26 PM
Petra :)

shes very generous in handing out top ten wins too.

GOATdin0931
Dec 5th, 2012, 12:24 AM
Rodionova or Putintseva, obviously...

WHAT!? :spit: Are you kidding me!! Those are the two nastiest players on the tour and they are NOT fair at all! :o :facepalm:

charmedRic
Dec 5th, 2012, 02:01 AM
Petra :)
shes very generous in handing out top ten wins too.

:oh: ...cue the drama.

:rolls:

stromatolite
Dec 5th, 2012, 09:19 AM
No offense to Kim, but it's a joke that she's won this award 8 times. Not saying she's not pretty fair in general, but no more than a bunch of others, and although I suppose 2012 would count as a full season by her standards, they'd do well to specify a minimum of at least about 10 tournaments played to be eligible for this award. I mean, how hard can it be to be a good sport when you play so few matches? Give it to someone who was in the thick of the fray for a whole grueling season, and played fair throughout.

The problem, as Bobito pointed out on another thread, is that the award is determined by other players, which pretty much turns it into a locker-room popularity contest. For a real test of sportsmanship, you need to also ask the opinion of officials, ballkids, journalists and prominent ex-players. In that case I think the front runners would probably be Petra, Sam and Ana. Can't see Aga as a real contender tbh, given her bitter reaction to some her losses this year, particularly to Vika.

Mr.Sharapova
Dec 5th, 2012, 09:53 AM
WHAT!? :spit: Are you kidding me!! Those are the two nastiest players on the tour and they are NOT fair at all! :o :facepalm:

It's called sarcasm :facepalm:.

Emiel Goelen
Dec 5th, 2012, 10:01 AM
Petra won in 2011 so I guess she has a chance. Ana also won once, in 2007.

King Halep
Dec 5th, 2012, 10:29 AM
Petra she is so generous this season and only want to win team events

Chrissie-fan
Dec 5th, 2012, 10:31 AM
99.9% of the players are fair. So it's a more or less a pointless exercise to single out just one when virtually everyone else behaves in the same manner. The problem is though that in tennis absolutely everything from a grunt to a disputed linecall, a 'come on', a fistpump, even the way you celebrate a victory - in short, everything that shows that tennis players are human beings instead of robots is immediately called 'unsportsmanlike.' I guess this is really the Mats Wilander behave-alike award.

Halepsova
Dec 5th, 2012, 10:45 AM
Caro is loved by most of the girls in the locker room. :)
Na Li is probably popular too. So is Sam. Too bad Kuznetsova is so irrelevant now or she also has a chance. :awww:

stromatolite
Dec 5th, 2012, 11:20 AM
99.9% of the players are fair. So it's a more or less a pointless exercise to single out just one when virtually everyone else behaves in the same manner. The problem is though that in tennis absolutely everything from a grunt to a disputed linecall, a 'come on', a fistpump, even the way you celebrate a victory - in short, everything that shows that tennis players are human beings instead of robots is immediately called 'unsportsmanlike.' I guess this is really the Mats Wilander behave-alike award.


I'll grant you that tennis is a pretty fair sport compared to most others, but I think you're simplifying things a tad here. True, not every fistpump, disputed line call or grunt is a sign of bad sportsmanship, but some are, and plenty of players engage in other forms of unsporting behaviour as well, on a fairly regular basis: strategic medical time-outs and bathroom breaks, snarling at ballkids, bitchy comments about officials and/or other players during pressers, etc.

There are also players - but very few - who show sportsmanship above and beyond the call of duty: spontaneously conceding disputed points to their opponent, thanking ball-kids for bringing a towel or a drink, being unfailingly gracious in pressers despite being continually baited by gutter journalists, etc. These are the only ones who should be contenders for the sportsmanship award, not the 60% or so (sorry, but 99.9% is an exaggeration) who fairly consistently refrain from doing what they shouldn't do in any case.

The problem that I think you've put your finger on is that most tennis fans - at least most who post on this forum - don't really see the difference, and confuse sportsmanship with their personal feelings towards a player. Consequently, they interpret every action of a hated player as a sign of bad sportsmanship, and every action of their faves as normal or even sporting. That's all the more reason why tennis needs a proper sportsmanship award, so that, maybe in time, people can learn to tell the difference. The rubber stamp that is the current award doesn't do the job.

If it ever gets to the stage where literally 99.9% of players would be contenders for such an award then we can start to worry about Mats Wilander behave-alike scenarios.;)

Gentleman
Dec 5th, 2012, 11:38 AM
It will be someone from the group: Ana Ivanovic, Caroline Wozniacki, Na Li, Agnieszka Radwanska, Samantha Stosur. :)

vixter
Dec 5th, 2012, 11:59 AM
I bet they all go "oh no not this crap again... oh well, I'll just vote for Saint Kim as usual.."

Chrissie-fan
Dec 5th, 2012, 12:20 PM
I'll grant you that tennis is a pretty fair sport compared to most others, but I think you're simplifying things a tad here. True, not every fistpump, disputed line call or grunt is a sign of bad sportsmanship, but some are, and plenty of players engage in other forms of unsporting behaviour as well, on a fairly regular basis: strategic medical time-outs and bathroom breaks, snarling at ballkids, bitchy comments about officials and/or other players during pressers, etc.


I did so on purpose because all too often people exaggerate the problem, so I figured to go in the other direction with my comment, which if forced to choose between the two is closer to the truth anyway in my opinion. I also think that there's a difference between having an attitude on the one hand and actual unsportsmanlike behavior on the other hand. IT IS a competition after all and I don't mind a bit of spice. Some of the things you mention are not even the fault of the players themselves but the powers that be of the WTA. The rules for medical time-outs and bathroom breaks should be much strickter than they are now, if they should even be allowed to begin with. But with the rules as they are I would also be tempted to take a long bathroom break in the hope of breaking my opponent's rhythm when I get my ass kicked at Wimbledon or the USO. I'd after all much prefer to win one of those than some sportsmanship award. Snarling at ballkids is a big no-no in my book. Bitchy comments about officials and other players are usually done in the heath of the moment after a tough loss. Some are better at biting their lip than others. If the WTA doesn't want any of that they shouldn't require that players immediately talk to the press following a loss.

stromatolite
Dec 5th, 2012, 12:50 PM
I did so on purpose because all too often people exaggerate the problem, so I figured to go in the other direction with my comment, which if forced to choose between the two is closer to the truth anyway in my opinion. I also think that there's a difference between having an attitude on the one hand and actual unsportsmanlike behavior on the other hand. IT IS a competition after all and I don't mind a bit of spice. Some of the things you mention are not even the fault of the players themselves but the powers that be of the WTA. The rules for medical time-outs and bathroom breaks should be much strickter than they are now, if they should even be allowed to begin with. But with the rules as they are I would also be tempted to take a long bathroom break in the hope of breaking my opponent's rhythm when I get my ass kicked at Wimbledon or the USO. I'd after all much prefer to win one of those than some sportsmanship award. Snarling at ballkids is a big no-no in my book. Bitchy comments about officials and other players are usually done in the heath of the moment after a tough loss. Some are better at biting their lip than others. If the WTA doesn't want any of that they shouldn't require that players immediately talk to the press following a loss.

I’m sure Kim would have gladly traded all 8 of her awards for a Wimbledon title, as would any player I think. That’s not the point, at least not my point.

The point is that as sports become more competitive and especially more commercial, sportsmanship is inevitably put under more pressure. As you said, people want a bit of spice, which is okay, up to a point. But being a good sport - things like taking it on the chin when you lose, acknowledging your opponent when (s)he hits a good shot, showing respect to officials and ballkids - these enrich the game as well.

If we lose stuff like this it’ll be all spice and no meat and veg, and tennis will have turned into Jerry Springer. Tennis is okay now, but that can change quickly, because the current players are the role models for the future players. If all the attention is given to the stars with the best bitchy one-liners in pressers and none to the players who suck it up and remain respectful, how would you expect the next generation to behave? A serious award once a year for being a good sport doesn't seem too much against the background of all the attention that is given to other stuff.

Btw, I don't think there is all that much the WTA can do by tightening the rules. You can't forbid medical and bathroom breaks just because some players abuse them. Players do get injured, and the need to pee or poo can be perfectly genuine and urgent. It's equally unrealistic to eliminate post-match interviews.

bobito
Dec 5th, 2012, 01:40 PM
If you want to encourage sportsmanship then you have to properly punish behaviour that brings the game into disrepute. An by punish I mean meaningful suspensions not meaningless fines. And those punishments need to be consistent whether the player is a star ranked #1 in the World or a little known player ranked 160. The game's code of conduct needs an overhaul. If star players are allowed openly abuse, ridicule or threaten umpires, linespeople, ballkids or opponents without meaningful punishment then what value is being placed on sportsmanship?

stromatolite
Dec 5th, 2012, 02:00 PM
If you want to encourage sportsmanship then you have to properly punish behaviour that brings the game into disrepute. An by punish I mean meaningful suspensions not meaningless fines. And those punishments need to be consistent whether the player is a star ranked #1 in the World or a little known player ranked 160. The game's code of conduct needs an overhaul. If star players are allowed openly abuse, ridicule or threaten umpires, linespeople, ballkids or opponents without meaningful punishment then what value is being placed on sportsmanship?

I agree that serious excesses need harsher punishment and should be blind to the status of the offender, but in my view suspendable/bannable behaviour is pretty rare. A line in the sand would be a good thing and would probably make such excesses even rarer in future, but would do nothing to encourage positive sportsmanship. After all, you don't encourage excellence by naming and shaming the mugs.

adamselby
Dec 5th, 2012, 02:03 PM
Who will be the next to winthe so called Karen Krantzcke Sportmanship Award? My guess is Ana or Aga... They both seem to be liked by other players :-)



Kim won it for the eighth time in 2012 :worship: ! Basically every time she played a full season since 2000 (plus 2009):eek:

"The Karen Krantzcke Sportsmanship Award, recognizing professionalism, attitude and sense of fair play [...] voted for by the WTA players themselves."

What a nice goodbye for Kim! And especially nice, since it is voted by fellow players who must have the best insight!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


she was a great player and has done very well. . .but why would the term FAIR especially aply to her ??

Chrissie-fan
Dec 5th, 2012, 02:13 PM
If you want to encourage sportsmanship then you have to properly punish behaviour that brings the game into disrepute. An by punish I mean meaningful suspensions not meaningless fines. And those punishments need to be consistent whether the player is a star ranked #1 in the World or a little known player ranked 160. The game's code of conduct needs an overhaul. If star players are allowed openly abuse, ridicule or threaten umpires, linespeople, ballkids or opponents without meaningful punishment then what value is being placed on sportsmanship?
But that stuff only happens very rarely. I would prefer that the WTA/ATP/ITF would focus on potentially much more urgent matters like PED cheats and other things that have a much bigger (though so far unseen) impact on the outcome of matches and tournaments than someone smashing a tennis racquet or behaving like a bitch at some press conference. And trying to get an edge by those means is much more unsportsmanlike than any of the stuff we mention in this thread. I'm not saying that there actually IS a PED problem in tennis, but actions so far and the number of times that players are checked are not such that we can say for sure that there isn't one either.

Chrissie-fan
Dec 5th, 2012, 02:27 PM
I agree that serious excesses need harsher punishment and should be blind to the status of the offender, but in my view suspendable/bannable behaviour is pretty rare. A line in the sand would be a good thing and would probably make such excesses even rarer in future, but would do nothing to encourage positive sportsmanship. After all, you don't encourage excellence by naming and shaming the mugs.
I agree. I'm not in favor of the type of rule-aritis where someone gets a ban or a fine whenever they do as much as raise an eyebrow. But I am in favor of giving players 'some room to move' beyond what would be considered 'perfect behavior' but drawing a line beyond which you can't go without some serious consequences. Having said that, I admit that emotionally I'm nearly always on the side of the player, even when she's in the wrong - purely out of self-interest. After the Serena incidents at the USO I always hoped that they wouldn't suspend her because as a tennis fan I'd rather see her play. :lol:

Coconut91
Dec 5th, 2012, 03:04 PM
But that stuff only happens very rarely. I would prefer that the WTA/ATP/ITF would focus on potentially much more urgent matters like PED cheats and other things that have a much bigger (though so far unseen) impact on the outcome of matches and tournaments than someone smashing a tennis racquet or behaving like a bitch at some press conference. And trying to get an edge by those means is much more unsportsmanlike than any of the stuff we mention in this thread. I'm not saying that there actually IS a PED problem in tennis, but actions so far and the number of times that players are checked are not such that we can say for sure that there isn't one either.

That's the best example of unsportsmanlike and the real tragedy in tennis. But it seems grunts and things alike are much more important for some reason. :rolleyes:

I'd give the award to either Petra, Sam or Ana. They're always respectful and gracious in defeat, and they seem like good people. :)

Raiden
Dec 5th, 2012, 03:38 PM
No offense to Kim, but it's a joke that she's won this award 8 times. Not saying she's not pretty fair in general, but no more than a bunch of others, What a load of presumptuous, relativist nonsense.

How do you know that they're all fair/sportsmanlike in the same amount? How do you know that Kim doesn't stand out? What is the basis of that? Communist psychology? Stem jij ook voor de SP?

The problem (...) is that the award is determined by other players, which pretty much turns it into a locker-room popularity contest.It's really laughable how you think it is a "problem" that the prize is determined by players, while that is actually the best thing about this prize.

For a real test of sportsmanship, you need to also ask the opinion of officials, ballkids, journalists and prominent ex-players. In that case I think the front runners would probably be Petra, Sam and Ana. Can't see Aga as a real contender tbh, given her bitter reaction to some her losses this year, particularly to Vika.Rubbish.

Players are the best judges of sportsmanship. Because they are the ones who are taking the proverbial bread from each other. They face each other at the net when one has lost to that very player in front of them (and is in a bad mood). That makes them the best judges of each other's character, and hence, sportsmanship.

... as Bobito pointed out on another thread...Bobito is a wonderful poster - but also a Juju stan. So his opinion on anything related to Km should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Sammo
Dec 5th, 2012, 03:56 PM
WHAT!? :spit: Are you kidding me!! Those are the two nastiest players on the tour and they are NOT fair at all! :o :facepalm:

http://forums.allkpop.com/attachments/2393597-453px-you_dont_say-png.20185/

coolfish1103
Dec 5th, 2012, 04:18 PM
It will be someone from the group: Ana Ivanovic, Caroline Wozniacki, Na Li, Agnieszka Radwanska, Samantha Stosur. :)

For this award, Ivanovic needs to stop tossing the balls n times on her serve when there's no wind.

stromatolite
Dec 5th, 2012, 04:18 PM
What a load of presumptuous, relativist nonsense.
Not sure which parts of your rant I should take seriously enough to respond to, if any. For starters: ever heard of just disagreeing with a post? Adding insults don't make your point any stronger, more the opposite.
How do you know that they're all fair/sportsmanlike in the same amount? How do you know that Kim doesn't stand out? What is the basis of that? Communist psychology? Stem jij ook voor de SP?
The communist psychology and SP jibes are just too bizarre, so I’ll just respond to the first bit. I never said that they’re sportsmanlike in the same amount, but I follow tennis and have seen a lot of all these players, on court and in interviews etc. Kim is pretty fair, but even if one were to concede that she’s the fairest of the bunch, it’s by a pretty slim margin at most. In that case you don’t need to be a communist to agree that the others should also get some recognition for their good behavior as well.
It's really laughable how you think it is a "problem" that the prize is determined by players, while that is actually the best thing about this prize.
Rubbish.
Players are the best judges of sportsmanship. Because they are the ones who are taking the proverbial bread from each other. They face each other at the net when one has lost to that very player in front of them (and is in a bad mood). That makes them the best judges of each other's character, and hence, sportsmanship.
The rebuttal to your claim is right there in your own words, so if you can’t or won’t see that there’s probably not much I can do to convince you. But I’ll give it a go, wie weet blijft iets kleven.

As you said, they’re taking the bread from each other’s mouths, and when they lose to a player they are generally not in a very good mood. In the case of some players, that can last a very long time, sometimes years. In addition the tennis world is notoriously cliquey, full of petty rivalries, jealousies, hurt feelings, and so on. In addition, loyalties can shift suddenly and violently, as we saw in the case of Aga’s response to losing to former BFF Vika. Finally, judging from what players tell in interviews, they spend very little of their time following other players’ matches, which means that their impressions are mostly restricted to the matches they have played themselves. All of this hardly argues for the case that players are the ideal judges of sportsmanship.
Bobito is a wonderful poster - but also a Juju stan. So his opinion on anything related to Km should be taken with a pinch of salt.
I share your admiration for Bobito, but even if it were true that his being a Juju fan automatically makes him a rabid Kim-hater (not my impression) I think his claim that the award is essentially a popularity contest is valid.

If you want to disagree with any or all of these, be my guest, but do me a favor, spare me your frothy-mouthed bile.

bobito
Dec 5th, 2012, 04:21 PM
Bobito is a wonderful poster - but also a Juju stan. So his opinion on anything related to Km should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Juju stan though I certainly am, I've always liked Kim as well, in particular the way she conducts herself and treats other people, so I've no problem with her winning this award. I've never really gone in for disliking a player simply because they're a rival of a player I support. I was a Sabatini fan back in the day but never held it against Graf.

Just to put what I said on the other thread in context, Stromatolite was saying that he thought the WTA didn't give the sportsmanship award enough coverage and opined that he thought it was one of the most important end of year awards, not the least. I responded by saying that if you wanted a sportsmanship award to make a song and dance over then both umpires and players should vote. However, I also suggested that a sportsmanship award voted by the players probably has value for that reason alone and doesn't need a big hoo-ha. The award is more about respect than prestige.

I agree that serious excesses need harsher punishment and should be blind to the status of the offender, but in my view suspendable/bannable behaviour is pretty rare. A line in the sand would be a good thing and would probably make such excesses even rarer in future, but would do nothing to encourage positive sportsmanship. After all, you don't encourage excellence by naming and shaming the mugs.

If you don't deal properly with serious offenders then you are sending out a clear message that sportsmanship and codunct are regarded as trivial matters. Yes they're rare, but they are also high profile. When such incidents occur, if the offender is let off with a fine that ammounts to a few day's endorsement money and allowed to carry on regardless then the leniency of the punishment does as much to bring the game into disrepute as the original offence did.

Any organisation that does not suspend a player for threatening a line judge has no business handing out sportsmanship awards.

stromatolite
Dec 5th, 2012, 04:27 PM
Any organisation that does not suspend a player for threatening a line judge has no business handing out sportsmanship awards.

Good point I guess, but it's based on the assumption that the WTA in a broader sense is a single entity. I think that there are plenty of people associated with the WTA who believe that harsher punishment should have been handed out when this stuff happened. The fact that those people didn't get their way in these cases shouldn't prohibit them from recognizing good sportsmanship in other players.

Chrissie-fan
Dec 5th, 2012, 04:43 PM
How about the players voting for the best umpire each year? The one that ideally should win is the one who makes the least mistakes and can keep the players on their best behavior without giving too many 'yellow and red cards.' There's more to being a great umpire than telling us the score or whether the ball was in or out or laying down the law on players - there's also psychology involved in doing a good job in my opinion. Just a small example - players are likely to be far less upset if you tell them at the change of ends that the're taking a bit too much time between points than when you give them a warning out of nowhere when the're playing.

bobito
Dec 5th, 2012, 05:15 PM
How about the players voting for the best umpire each year? The one that ideally should win is the one who makes the least mistakes and can keep the players on their best behavior without giving too many 'yellow and red cards.' There's more to being a great umpire than telling us the score or whether the ball was in or out or laying down the law on players - there's also psychology involved in doing a good job in my opinion. Just a small example - players are likely to be far less upset if you tell them at the change of ends that the're taking a bit too much time between points than when you give them a warning out of nowhere when the're playing.

Chalk up one vote for James Keothavong

pattyclijsters
Dec 5th, 2012, 05:38 PM
No offense to Kim, but it's a joke that she's won this award 8 times. Not saying she's not pretty fair in general, but no more than a bunch of others, and although I suppose 2012 would count as a full season by her standards, they'd do well to specify a minimum of at least about 10 tournaments played to be eligible for this award. I mean, how hard can it be to be a good sport when you play so few matches? Give it to someone who was in the thick of the fray for a whole grueling season, and played fair throughout.

The problem, as Bobito pointed out on another thread, is that the award is determined by other players, which pretty much turns it into a locker-room popularity contest. For a real test of sportsmanship, you need to also ask the opinion of officials, ballkids, journalists and prominent ex-players. In that case I think the front runners would probably be Petra, Sam and Ana. Can't see Aga as a real contender tbh, given her bitter reaction to some her losses this year, particularly to Vika.

good point! of course fairness helps, and fairness it not the only category the award rewards :)

GOATdin0931
Dec 5th, 2012, 10:02 PM
It's called sarcasm :facepalm:.

Same here :spit: :p :happy:

Lord Choc Ice
Dec 5th, 2012, 11:37 PM
Baby Anci won this in 2007 :inlove:.

But yeah, popularity contest.