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RVD
Dec 4th, 2012, 06:12 PM
The feats and records that this lady captures (and at the twilight of her tennis years) is unfathomable!

Keep going Serena!!!

Serena & Margaret: An Unmatchable Feat?

http://www.wtatennis.com/javaImages/d5/dd/0,,12781%7E11460053,00.jpg

EL PASO, TX, USA - At the end of October one of the WTA's true legends, Margaret Osborne duPont, passed away in El Paso, Texas at the age of 94, leaving behind a legacy that included 37 Grand Slam titles across all three disciplines - six in singles, 21 in doubles and 10 in mixed doubles.

Meanwhile over in Istanbul, Turkey, Serena Williams (http://www.wtatennis.com/player/serena-williams_2257889_9044) was continuing her 2012 domination of the WTA - among her titles this year were the Wimbledon (http://www.wtatennis.com/page/Tournaments/Info/0,,12781%7E839,00.html) and US Open (http://www.wtatennis.com/page/Tournaments/Info/0,,12781%7E840,00.html) singles and the Wimbledon (http://www.wtatennis.com/page/Tournaments/Info/0,,12781%7E839,00.html) doubles crowns, bringing her career Grand Slam haul to 30 - 15 in singles, 13 in doubles and two in mixed doubles.

But capturing 30 or more Grand Slam titles - and across all three of the disciplines too - isn't all that connects Osborne duPont and Williams. They share an absolutely incredible and perhaps ummatchable feat...

They are the only two players in the history of women's tennis to fight back from match point down en route to winning multiple Grand Slam singles titles.

Osborne duPont achieved the feat twice, saving match points to beat Pauline Betz in the 1946 French Open (http://www.wtatennis.com/page/Tournaments/Info/0,,12781%7E838,00.html) final, 16 86 75, and again against Louise Brough in the final of the 1948 US Open (http://www.wtatennis.com/page/Tournaments/Info/0,,12781%7E840,00.html) final, winning that one, 46 64 1513.
Williams has done it three times, at the 2003 Australian Open (http://www.wtatennis.com/page/Tournaments/Info/0,,12781%7E836,00.html) (saving two match points down 5-2 in the third set of her 46 63 75 semifinal win over Kim Clijsters (http://www.wtatennis.com/player/kim-clijsters_2257889_1583)), the 2005 Australian Open (http://www.wtatennis.com/page/Tournaments/Info/0,,12781%7E836,00.html) (saving three match points down 5-4 in the third set of her 26 75 86 semifinal win over Maria Sharapova (http://www.wtatennis.com/player/maria-sharapova_2257889_9499)), and last but certainly not least, 2009 Wimbledon (http://www.wtatennis.com/page/Tournaments/Info/0,,12781%7E839,00.html) (saving one match point down 5-4 in the third set of her 67(4) 75 86 semifinal victory over Elena Dementieva (http://www.wtatennis.com/player/elena-dementieva_2257889_2018)).

"The mental toughness you have to have to be match point down and come back, not only to win that match but to also win the tournament, it means a lot," Williams said of the rare statistic during her run in Istanbul. "You have to be really ready mentally to do that. She must have been really tough.

"It's a shame we've lost such a great ambassador for women's tennis."

DuPont's six Grand Slam singles titles were made up of two French Opens, one Wimbledon (http://www.wtatennis.com/page/Tournaments/Info/0,,12781%7E839,00.html) and three US Opens; her 21 Grand Slam doubles titles were made up of three French Opens, five Wimbledons and 13 US Opens; and her 10 Grand Slam mixed doubles titles were one Wimbledon (http://www.wtatennis.com/page/Tournaments/Info/0,,12781%7E839,00.html) and nine US Opens. She never contested the Australian Open (http://www.wtatennis.com/page/Tournaments/Info/0,,12781%7E836,00.html) and her career haul is fourth all-time following Margaret Court (http://www.wtatennis.com/player/margaret-court_2257889_1285), Martina Navratilova (http://www.wtatennis.com/player/martina-navratilova_2257889_5744) and Billie Jean King (http://www.wtatennis.com/player/billie-jean-king_2257889_4011).
http://www.wtatennis.com/javaImages/d7/dd/0,,12781%7E11460055,00.jpg

Sammo
Dec 4th, 2012, 06:19 PM
I thought this was going to be a thread about Serena and Margaret Court recording a rap song together. Yep, for a nanosecond that's what I thought.

ZeroSumGame
Dec 4th, 2012, 06:25 PM
Nothing new here! She's already up there with the great ones ...tell us something Serena hasn't done already!!

Petronius
Dec 4th, 2012, 06:26 PM
LOL. Sorry, but if you have allowed your opponent to get as close as one point from winning the match, it usually means that you play pretty bad.

Just one unreturnable serve, one netcord or one lucky shot that clips the line and you lost, whether being a mental giant or not.

It's obviously far more impressive to win slams without facing any matchpoint or even setpoint at all.

But I understand that it's still a few weeks before the Australian swing starts.

Halepsova
Dec 4th, 2012, 06:29 PM
Clearly Serena has tougher mentally than Margaret. She proved it so many times. I don't know how much she came back from the dead but surely noone will ever touch this record.

Halepsova
Dec 4th, 2012, 06:33 PM
LOL. Sorry, but if you have allowed your opponent to get as close as one point from winning the match, it usually means that you play pretty bad.

Just one unreturnable serve, one netcord or one lucky shot that clips the line and you lost, whether being a mental giant or not.

It's obviously far more impressive to win slams without facing any matchpoint or even setpoint at all.

But I understand that it's still a few weeks before the Australian swing starts.

I don't think the article was trying to point out that saving MPs to win the title is a great win. It just showed how amazing these 2 champions could be even when their situations were critical.

Pump-it-UP
Dec 4th, 2012, 06:42 PM
Serena has been 3 points away from losing in 10 of her 15 slam victories I think.

1999 USO - 2 points (maybe 3?) away vs Clijsters
2002 RG - 3 points (maybe 2? maybe 4? :o) away vs Capriati
2003 AO - saved MP's vs Clijsters, 2 points away vs Loit
2005 AO - saved MP's vs Sharapova
2007 AO - 2 points away vs Peer, 3 points away vs Petrova
2009 AO - 2 (3?) points away vs Kuznetsova
2009 Wimbledon - saved MP against Dementieva
2010 AO - 3 points away vs Azarenka
2012 Wimbledon - 3 points away vs Shvedova, 4 points away vs Zheng
2012 USO - 2 points away vs Azarenka

:crying2:

liuxuan
Dec 4th, 2012, 06:53 PM
Serena has been 3 points away from losing in 10 of her 15 slam victories I think.

1999 USO - 2 points (maybe 3?) away vs Clijsters
2002 RG - 3 points (maybe 2? maybe 4? :o) away vs Capriati
2003 AO - saved MP's vs Clijsters, 2 points away vs Loit
2005 AO - saved MP's vs Sharapova
2007 AO - 2 points away vs Peer, 3 points away vs Petrova
2009 AO - 2 (3?) points away vs Kuznetsova
2009 Wimbledon - saved MP against Dementieva
2010 AO - 3 points away vs Azarenka
2012 Wimbledon - 3 points away vs Shvedova, 4 points away vs Zheng
2012 USO - 2 points away vs Azarenka

:crying2:

that is pretty amazing!

i dont know how many times capriati has been 2 points away from the us open finals during her 3 marathon SF defeats!

bandabou
Dec 4th, 2012, 06:54 PM
Serena has been 3 points away from losing in 10 of her 15 slam victories I think.

1999 USO - 2 points (maybe 3?) away vs Clijsters
2002 RG - 3 points (maybe 2? maybe 4? :o) away vs Capriati
2003 AO - saved MP's vs Clijsters, 2 points away vs Loit
2005 AO - saved MP's vs Sharapova
2007 AO - 2 points away vs Peer, 3 points away vs Petrova
2009 AO - 2 (3?) points away vs Kuznetsova
2009 Wimbledon - saved MP against Dementieva
2010 AO - 3 points away vs Azarenka
2012 Wimbledon - 3 points away vs Shvedova, 4 points away vs Zheng
2012 USO - 2 points away vs Azarenka

:crying2:

:eek:

young_gunner913
Dec 4th, 2012, 06:59 PM
LOL. Sorry, but if you have allowed your opponent to get as close as one point from winning the match, it usually means that you play pretty bad.

Just one unreturnable serve, one netcord or one lucky shot that clips the line and you lost, whether being a mental giant or not.

It's obviously far more impressive to win slams without facing any matchpoint or even setpoint at all.

But I understand that it's still a few weeks before the Australian swing starts.

It's more impressive from a dominance stand point but to be one point away from elimination and to fight back to win the match and go on to win the tournament is very impressive as well. And to do it repeatedly (sometimes in the same event) is pretty remarkable as well. If we can replay the tapes, Petrova & Peer both had Serena on the ropes in the 2007 Australian Open and that just made Serena even hungrier for the final where she gave us one of the most dominate displays of tennis that a grand slam final has ever seen in tennis history.

RVD
Dec 4th, 2012, 06:59 PM
Serena has been 3 points away from losing in 10 of her 15 slam victories I think.

1999 USO - 2 points (maybe 3?) away vs Clijsters
2002 RG - 3 points (maybe 2? maybe 4? :o) away vs Capriati
2003 AO - saved MP's vs Clijsters, 2 points away vs Loit
2005 AO - saved MP's vs Sharapova
2007 AO - 2 points away vs Peer, 3 points away vs Petrova
2009 AO - 2 (3?) points away vs Kuznetsova
2009 Wimbledon - saved MP against Dementieva
2010 AO - 3 points away vs Azarenka
2012 Wimbledon - 3 points away vs Shvedova, 4 points away vs Zheng
2012 USO - 2 points away vs Azarenka

:crying2:Wow!
Certainly a testament to her mental toughness.

dragonflies
Dec 4th, 2012, 06:59 PM
LOL. Sorry, but if you have allowed your opponent to get as close as one point from winning the match, it usually means that you play pretty bad.

Just one unreturnable serve, one netcord or one lucky shot that clips the line and you lost, whether being a mental giant or not.

It's obviously far more impressive to win slams without facing any matchpoint or even setpoint at all.

But I understand that it's still a few weeks before the Australian swing starts.








LOL, it's true what you said, winning a Slam facing match point( s) is certainly worse of an achievement than winning a Slam not dropping a set.


RVD is usually so excited to praise Serena at all cost, so he made a mistake as labeling this as a "record" as if Slam champions would have to try for more while it's obviously not that case. All champions would rather get to the victories not having to face match point(s).


However, this stats spoke about another vital aspect of Serena that not every champions have (ie Novotna, Kim, Kuzy, etc... to name a few) . That is the mental toughness and the ability to come back from the brink of defeat.



As Serena already has Slam victories while she won without dropping a set, this aspect would enhance Serena's dynamic range as a complete player. Serena saved most of her match points by calmly raised her games and hitting winners to get back into the match. Only a few Slam champions have been able to do that. Having match points against you in a big match under the eyes of millions people all over the world and thousands directly would have a big impact on the nerves and execution, so to be able to overcome that should be viewed as an accomplishment in term of showing your mental toughness.

RVD
Dec 4th, 2012, 07:05 PM
LOL. Sorry, but if you have allowed your opponent to get as close as one point from winning the match, it usually means that you play pretty bad.

Just one unreturnable serve, one netcord or one lucky shot that clips the line and you lost, whether being a mental giant or not.

It's obviously far more impressive to win slams without facing any matchpoint or even setpoint at all.

But I understand that it's still a few weeks before the Australian swing starts.Really? :confused:

I suppose one could view it in that perspective.
However, you have to judge each match independently to say one way or another.
It could easily be said that the opponents she faced were playing remarkably well and that Serena was required to dig deep to win.
We are talking about slam finals here.

L'Enfant Sauvage
Dec 4th, 2012, 07:05 PM
I'm surprised at that stat, I would have thought some of the other GOATs, especially Steffi and Margaret would have had as many or more slams won from down MP. Then again back in the day good players were able to waltz through slams unchallenged for ~4 rounds :lol:

Kuzzy24
Dec 4th, 2012, 07:07 PM
It'll probably happen again at the Australian .

RVD
Dec 4th, 2012, 07:14 PM
LOL, it's true what you said, winning a Slam facing match point( s) is certainly worse of an achievement than winning a Slam not dropping a set.


RVD is usually so excited to praise Serena at all cost, so he made a mistake as labeling this as a "record" as if Slam champions would have to try for more while it's obviously not that case. All champions would rather get to the victories not having to face match point(s).


However, this stats spoke about another vital aspect of Serena that not every champions have (ie Novotna, Kim, Kuzy, etc... to name a few) . That is the mental toughness and the ability to come back from the brink of defeat.



As Serena already has Slam victories while she won without dropping a set, this aspect would enhance Serena's dynamic range as a complete player. Serena saved most of her match points by calmly raised her games and hitting winners to get back into the match. Only a few Slam champions have been able to do that. Having match points against you in a big match under the eyes of millions people all over the world and thousands directly would have a big impact on the nerves and execution, so to be able to overcome that should be viewed as an accomplishment in term of showing your mental toughness.* I didn't write the article.
* I applaud my fav whenever she achieves or accomplishes a record/feat.
* I am a fan of Serena's, so why would I not be excited/happy when such achievements are accomplished?
* I did not make the comparison, nor is the achievement an empty one (as you are attempting to imply).
* Why do you have a problem with my happiness of my fav's achievements to the point of writing complete crap?

If your fav achieves or accomplished something great, will you then criticize your fellow fans for being excited/happy?

You're VERY weird. :cuckoo:

L'Enfant Sauvage
Dec 4th, 2012, 07:17 PM
It's more impressive from a dominance stand point but to be one point away from elimination and to fight back to win the match and go on to win the tournament is very impressive as well. And to do it repeatedly (sometimes in the same event) is pretty remarkable as well. If we can replay the tapes, Petrova & Peer both had Serena on the ropes in the 2007 Australian Open and that just made Serena even hungrier for the final where she gave us one of the most dominate displays of tennis that a grand slam final has ever seen in tennis history.

It's especially impressive in cases like 2005 AO against Devil, 2010 AO against Vika(not MP down, but 4-6 0-4 might as well be :lol:) where Lordrena was playing pretty badly in the former, and straight up getting that ass whooped in the latter :bigcry: The way she dug deep against Satan, defying all logic and making the same exact shots she was missing for 2 hours, with the FH that landed her in such big trouble being the thing that saved her ass when push came to shove, or against Vika where she was being outplayed and about to be sent home in 5-10 minutes time, only to start shredding aces and return winners left right and center speak to her enormous willpower. In those matches she just decided that she wasn't going to lose, and regardless of how implausible it seemed, snatched victory from nowhere when her opponent was on paper doing everything better than her. That's something remarkable, that I haven't seen any other legend able to surpass :worship:

dragonflies
Dec 4th, 2012, 08:02 PM
* I didn't write the article.
* I applaud my fav whenever she achieves or accomplishes a record/feat.
* I am a fan of Serena's, so why would I not be excited/happy when such achievements are accomplished?
* I did not make the comparison, nor is the achievement an empty one (as you are attempting to imply).
* Why do you have a problem with my happiness of my fav's achievements to the point of writing complete crap?

If your fav achieves or accomplished something great, will you then criticize your fellow fans for being excited/happy?

You're VERY weird. :cuckoo:






Serena is also my fav, so of course I am also excited when she achieves any remarkable accomplishment.


What I don't do is I don't get obsessed with her all the time and not being overexcited about her like some other fans. As anyone can see, I don't write "complete crap". Even in my post, there is only one sentence in that long post that you can be offended with and whether it's true or not, that's totally arguable and can be judged by others, not just by one or 2 posters.


I was well awared that you didn't write the article, but it was your words in the title that " Serena noches yet another RECORD!".




The capital word and the exclamation mark showed excitation, so I didn't lie.




The word " RECORD" is wrong. There's no argue about it. Record is a barrier that people want to break and set to make for other competitors to aim at and strive for more. This is not a record, just a stat that happened when putting Serena's Slams under a microscope. So while this stat shows an admirable trait of hers, it's not a fundamental part of a tennis match, so when players out there about to win their Slams, they can't and won't set themselves to break this " record" as they'd better to avoid getting into the situation. Therefore, your title is wrong and would allow other fan bases to come in and bash Serena as it already happened with Petronius.




Anyway, I am not someone that nitpicks over an usage of a word to start a fight, as this is after all a message board, especially with my fellow fans, so cheer up, :). The key thing was the inaccuracy in your title that could cause misunderstanding and that could ( and already did) start unnecessary fight as I mentioned earlier.

Dominic
Dec 4th, 2012, 08:23 PM
LOL. Sorry, but if you have allowed your opponent to get as close as one point from winning the match, it usually means that you play pretty bad.


Agreed, that is one ridiculous record :lol:

Pureracket
Dec 4th, 2012, 08:25 PM
LOL. Sorry, but if you have allowed your opponent to get as close as one point from winning the match, it usually means that you play pretty bad.

Just one unreturnable serve, one netcord or one lucky shot that clips the line and you lost, whether being a mental giant or not.

It's obviously far more impressive to win slams without facing any matchpoint or even setpoint at all.

But I understand that it's still a few weeks before the Australian swing starts.I was kinda casually reading this thread because RVD posted in it, & as a Williams fan, we have to read all the threads posted by other fans. At least it was in my contract when I signed on to this message board. Also, it's about Serena Williams, so I figured it would probably bring out the extremists from both ends of the spectrum. She's the most popular tennis player ever and probably the best ever after all.

I then, saw this comment, Petronius. I haven't posted and read in GM in a while, so you may be new or posting under another anti-Williams troll name, but I can't agree with your comments. There are nameless amounts of matches where an opponent has been down one point from losing and the match was phenomenal on both ends. Until I know your M.O. around here regarding Serena Williams will I bother going into detail.

Serena has been down matchpoints and has gone on to win Slams without losing a set, so she's good on both counts.

Pureracket
Dec 4th, 2012, 08:27 PM
LOL, it's true what you said, winning a Slam facing match point( s) is certainly worse of an achievement than winning a Slam not dropping a set.


This is not necessarily true -no, not at all.

Dominic
Dec 4th, 2012, 08:30 PM
This is not necessarily true -no, not at all.

Winning a slam without dropping a set (logically) makes one much better than winning a slam being on the verge of losing multiple times. So yes it is 100% true.

dragonflies
Dec 4th, 2012, 08:49 PM
Winning a slam without dropping a set (logically) makes one much better than winning a slam being on the verge of losing multiple times. So yes it is 100% true.






While that's true winning a Slam in a dominant fashion is considered more impressive than winning a Slam saving match point(s), your attempt of discredit Serena's Slam wins won't be successful, since Serena has showed she was able to dominate Slams several times, so the "comeback", while it's not a record, only adding to legacy as an important and valuable traits of a Champion : mental toughness.





Just like every Slam win is different, you can't compare Serena's Slam win in modern days with Slam wins in the past where the competition was poor. Different fields, different difficulty in winning. The first ever Wimbledon winner just won a Slam in their backyard against a " circus of friends". You would bet they are not even to be qualifiers if they were competing in modern days. Just like you can't compare Slam wins with ITF wins nowadays.


Only if all the 4 Slams set up 7 robots ( at an increasing difficult levels after each round) there to play tennis where 7 robots has the same strength, the same tennis skills and smartness and players to win Slams have to beat the same 7 robots every time when they win Slams. Yes, only when it set up like that then you could compare and say all Slams are equal. Until then, as most knowledge people ( Evert, Jon Weitherm, Mc Enroe, Kim, Davenport, etc...) already conceded, Serena's Slam wins is second to none in term of achievements and greatness. ( I would take Jon W's words over lots of people, esp jealous posters here. Just read some of his column and asked yourself whether you are able to write that before calling him " Jon Worthless". )

Olórin
Dec 4th, 2012, 08:56 PM
LOL. Sorry, but if you have allowed your opponent to get as close as one point from winning the match, it usually means that you play pretty bad.


Any close match involves the opponent being one, two, three or perhaps five or six points from winning. Following? So according to your logic here, just based on this limited sentence you've strung together, we can generalise that close matches usually mean at least one person playing badly?

There are dozens of examples where that isn't the case. Serena's latest match point-saving feat in a slam at Wimbledon 2009 being a prime example.

You get so riled up whenever Serena gets praise, from whoever. Sad and weak from you.

bandabou
Dec 4th, 2012, 09:01 PM
well, since Serena shares the record with most majors won without losing a set..I guess it balances out. She can win it dominating, she can tough it out..

Olórin
Dec 4th, 2012, 09:04 PM
LOL, it's true what you said, winning a Slam facing match point( s) is certainly worse of an achievement than winning a Slam not dropping a set.


I wouldn't say so. How can you objectively say that Serena's feat of winning Wimbledon in 2010 or the US Open in 2008 is a greater achievement than completing the Serena Slam with the Australian Open in 2003. Your assertion automatically deprives the feat of winning a slam saving match point of any situational context whatsoever and assumes utter and unabashed dominance is always the most desirable and laudable outcome in sport. It isn't. Sometimes given the pressures, confidence and form of your opponent, the way you happen to be striking the ball on a given day you can't expect to come out and flatten them - not every time. Martina Navratilova said that what counts isn't that you can win when you're playing well, but when you're playing badly. This is actually what defines being a champion more than anything else. Continuing to prove yourself in all manner of match-contexts.

Surely any fan of Serena would devote time and analytical capacity to going into the specifics, the pressures a player might have faced in a given slam, on a given day, that affected form and performance rather than chiding other fans, getting into disputes over the verbal definitions and worrying about what insecure Serena haters will say.

kusiak
Dec 4th, 2012, 09:14 PM
Clearly Serena has tougher mentally than Margaret. She proved it so many times. I don't know how much she came back from the dead but surely noone will ever touch this record.

I think Serena did amazing comeback from dead, but overall i think Seles comaback was a little bit more impressive (I don't talk about the results) cause Serena knew what she could do on the court and what she couldn't and if she knew she could die or something she wouldn't take risk. As for Seles it was tougher mentally cause the main problem was in her head. I'm sure she was like: "What if that will happen again". I personally wouldn't be able to concetrate on a ball after something like that, knowing that there could be around some crazy person to stabb me again.

Dominic
Dec 4th, 2012, 09:17 PM
I wouldn't say so.

What's a more difficult and impressive feat? Winning, crushing everybody, Or winning, struggling against everybody? Enough said.

Veesus
Dec 4th, 2012, 09:21 PM
WHEW else but the QUEEN? Peasants, sit!

L'Enfant Sauvage
Dec 4th, 2012, 09:21 PM
well, since Serena shares the record with most majors won without losing a set..I guess it balances out. She can win it dominating, she can tough it out..

Though she doesn't share the record, I agree that it's worth pointing out that with 4 majors won without dropping a set she is only behind Martina(6) and Steffi/Chrissy(5) with huge chance to join the the latter as early as next year, especially if her serve and mental toughness are clicking at Wimbledon.

miffedmax
Dec 4th, 2012, 09:22 PM
:hysteric: Leeeeeeeeeeeeeennnnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!! !!! :hysteric:

Nonetheless, an interesting bit of tennis history.

dragonflies
Dec 4th, 2012, 09:25 PM
I wouldn't say so. How can you objectively say that Serena's feat of winning Wimbledon in 2010 or the US Open in 2008 is a greater achievement than completing the Serena Slam with the Australian Open in 2003. Your assertion automatically deprives the feat of winning a slam saving match point of any situational context whatsoever and assumes utter and unabashed dominance is always the most desirable and laudable outcome in sport. It isn't.

Surely any fan of Serena would devote time and analytical capacity to going into the specifics of context, the pressures a player might have faced in a given slam, on a given day, that affected form and performance rather than chiding other fans, getting into disputes over the verbal definitions and worrying about what insecure Serena haters will say.







Your observation and mine were on different plans . That was the point to start disagreement while it's not really the case. I know what you meant and let me clarify my point of views to make it clear.


I didn't compare the AO 05' ( where she had to save mps) win with any of Serena's wins in any year ( where she dominated) or with other Slam champ's victories. Talking about AO's 05 only, I would say against that field of 127 other players, if Serena managed to win against them without dropping a set then that would look more impressive than won that Slam saving mps as she would appeared more dominant.


However, winning a Slam saving mps doesn't mean that victory is not impressive. If comparing to other Slam wins, even the ones that were won in dominant fashion, either by that player or other players. Different field, different strength, different approaches. Serena win in AO' 05 saving mps could be greater than other Slam wins in the 90s even those Slams wins were in perfection, w/o dropping a set. That would be a different story though and we 'll have to take many other aspects into consideration.

dragonflies
Dec 4th, 2012, 09:39 PM
Though she doesn't share the record, I agree that it's worth pointing out that with 4 majors won without dropping a set she is only behind Martina(6) and Steffi/Chrissy(5) with huge chance to join the the latter as early as next year, especially if her serve and mental toughness are clicking at Wimbledon.






Martina is the one keeping that record. However, it doesn't mean having 6 of those in the 80s is greater than 4 in the 00s. In the 80s, the world was still divided to 2 different worlds, capitalism and socialism. Most of the players from the Soviet system and other communist countries weren't allowed to compete against the Western world, so the strength of the field was seriously depleted comparing to the late 90s to now.


If you look into the situation, many times, only one or 2 players can change the course of the history. As small as a country like Belgium, how many Slams that their players ( Kim and Justine) took when the country " play" in the tennis world. How many Slams the Russians took away from the Western players after they broke out of the communist system, starting from the early 2000? etc...and many other aspects, if you care to look into it.

RVD
Dec 4th, 2012, 11:56 PM
Serena is also my fav, so of course I am also excited when she achieves any remarkable accomplishment.


What I don't do is I don't get obsessed with her all the time and not being overexcited about her like some other fans. As anyone can see, I don't write "complete crap". Even in my post, there is only one sentence in that long post that you can be offended with and whether it's true or not, that's totally arguable and can be judged by others, not just by one or 2 posters.


I was well concerned that you didn't write the article, but it was your words that " Serena noches yet another RECORD!".




The capital word and the exclamation mark showed excitation, so I didn't lie.




The word " RECORD" is wrong. There's no argue about it. Record is a barrier that people want to break and set to make for other competitors to aim at and strive for more. This is not a record, just a stat that happened when puttin Serena's Slams under a microscope. So while this stat shows an admirable trait of hers, it's not a fundamental part of a tennis match, so when players out there about to win their Slams, they can't and won't set themselves to break this " record" as they'd better to avoid getting into the situation. Therefore, your title is wrong and would allow other fan bases to come in and bash Serena as it already happened with Petronius.


Anyway, I am not someone that nitpicks over an usage of a word to start a fight, as this is after all a message board, especially with my fellow fans, so cheer up, :). The key thing was the inaccuracy in your title that could cause misunderstanding and that could ( and already did) start unnecessary fight as I mentioned earlier.You sir/mam are being an asshole.

Let that sink in for a minute.
.
.
.
.
.
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.
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Now, the opening of my OP stated... The feats and records that this lady captures (and at the twilight of her tennis years) is unfathomable!
Keep going Serena!!! I repeat...FEATS and records.

Would you PLEASE F'ing READ the post accurately and in it's entirety before posting crap.

Please do not post to me again until you learn to read a post a-c-c-u-r-a-t-e-l-y.

Thank you.

After you do that, please tell me how that isn't a "record" for Serena.



On second thought...don't.
I'm not in the mood to deal with illogical folks today.

dragonflies
Dec 5th, 2012, 12:28 AM
You sir/mam are being an asshole.

Let that sink in for a minute.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Now, the opening of my OP stated... I repeat...FEATS and records.

Would you PLEASE F'ing READ the post accurately and in it's entirety before posting crap.

Please do not post to me again until you learn to read a post a-c-c-u-r-a-t-e-l-y.

Thank you.





:lol:


Calm down, don't be so angry even when you are being exposed. The thread title that you made up yourself is Serena noches yet another RECORD! (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?p=22549527#post22549527) is being quoted in every post, so you can't twist the facts in your favor. And it was wrong, as I mentioned earlier, so trying to say otherwise prove nothing, just you being desperate and angry and showing all your immatureness, regardless how old you really are.


You can't put one wrong word for the tittle and several different words in a subtitle to represent a static then conveniently chose one of your choice when the inaccuracy was pointed out to save face. Calling people ugly names and making bold words like you are screaming doesn't help either. It's just, like Serena used to say, showing a " lack of a formal education".:help:


Unlike what you might think, words in here are black and white for everyone to see, and there are plenty of people that are able to read. :lol:



I thought I can discuss the matter between adults ie not resorting to calling names when being showed mistakes. Ooops, I was wrong.:tape:



You can keep all those insults to yourself . And you don't need to be that angry any more. I'm done with you. Take care.

RVD
Dec 5th, 2012, 12:51 AM
When it comes to Serena and records, feats, accolades, achievements, discussions of dominance, raising the bar, etc...

Why do people suddenly go batshit crazy and lose there minds? :crying2:

Regardless of what you say dragonflies, it is a record (AND a feat).

I'm gonna be nice and help you out and then leave it at that:

noun \ˈre-kərd also -ˌkȯrd\
Definition of RECORD

1
: the state or fact of being recorded (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/recorded)

2
: something that records (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/records): as
a : something that recalls or relates past events
b : an official document that records the acts of a public body or officer
c : an authentic official copy of a document deposited with a legally designated officer
d : the official copy of the papers used in a law case

3
a (1) : a body of known or recorded facts about something or someone especially with reference to a particular sphere of activity that often forms a discernible pattern <a good academic record> <a liberal voting record> (2) : a collection of related items of information (as in a database) treated as a unit
b (1) : an attested top performance (2) : an unsurpassed statistic.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/record
Please let it go.
You are dead wrong on this issue and it's now become embarrassing.

My last post on the issue of "record".

------------------------------------------------------

This is the first time I've seen where Serena has successfully beat out a major top great.
There was a recent thread where several posters emphatically stated that Serena will never surpass players like Margaret Court, Navratilova, Evert, etc...
That is why I found this article "exciting". :lol:

MrProdigy555
Dec 5th, 2012, 12:57 AM
What's a more difficult and impressive feat? Winning, crushing everybody, Or winning, struggling against everybody? Enough said.
Serena 2010 Wimbledon

Or Serena 2007 Australian Open.

I vote that 2007 AO was farrrrrrr more impressive than 2010. Stop hating.

Pops Maellard
Dec 5th, 2012, 01:00 AM
Three of her worst losses (Makarova at AO, Razzano at RG, Caro at Miami) have come in quite big tourneys. Her year could've been even better :).

dragonflies
Dec 5th, 2012, 01:38 AM
When it comes to Serena and records, feats, accolades, achievements, discussions of dominance, raising the bar, etc...

Why do people suddenly go batshit crazy and lose there minds? :crying2:

Regardless of what you say dragonflies, it is a record (AND a feat).

I'm gonna be nice and help you out and then leave it at that:

Please let it go.
You are dead wrong on this issue and it's now become embarrassing.

My last post on the issue of "record".

------------------------------------------------------

This is the first time I've seen where Serena has successfully beat out a major top great.
There was a recent thread where several posters emphatically stated that Serena will never surpass players like Margaret Court, Navratilova, Evert, etc...
That is why I found this article "exciting". :lol:





It's indeed embarrassing. It happens when people are unable to distinguish the meaning of the words and related to the true event to make senses.


Based on the dictionary's definition that you provided, record is a stats that represents " top performance", " unable to surpass". Giving the AO's 03 and 05, the USO 12's fields, against that certain 21 players that she had to face, what would be a top performance : beating them w/o dropping a set, or struggling to save mps to the win? Since the later doesn't match up well with the definition, it would not be a record. You mistaken the record which is a " desirable" stats with a "record" which is not a " desirable" stats.





The " records" in any sports is like the top performances, the top numbers that everyone strikes for ie, record of the lowest seconds a sprinter has to run to finish a 100m distance, 200m butterfly swimming that everyone who participate will go through to aim for that.


This "record" of Serena's, while showing her extraordinary mental toughness, wasn't applied for every players as they wouldn't want to let themselves into those extreme situations then dig them out of the holes. Therefore it's unlikely anyone will break " this record". Even Serena didn't get to make this "record" by choice. She didn't want to be mps down, but just happened to be in those circumstances and was able to get out.


Since the " record" doesn't apply to all the participants or seeing as a " top performance" as stated in that definition, it would not considered " a record" for it own sake. It's rather be a stats, albeit a remarkable stats, and while it shows Serena's extreme mental toughness, let's not pretend that is some " record" that other players are trying to break when they are competing in Grand Slams.

AcesHigh
Dec 5th, 2012, 01:48 AM
This thread :lol:

Mynarco
Dec 5th, 2012, 02:38 AM
Lolwut

Dominic
Dec 5th, 2012, 03:30 AM
Serena 2010 Wimbledon

Or Serena 2007 Australian Open.

I vote that 2007 AO was farrrrrrr more impressive than 2010. Stop hating.

Good for you, but that doesn't change the fact that it is more difficult to win a slam without losing a set than winning one while dropping a few on the way.

And the only really impressive match from Serena in 07 was the final.

MrProdigy555
Dec 5th, 2012, 03:37 AM
Good for you, but that doesn't change the fact that it is more difficult to win a slam without losing a set than winning one while dropping a few on the way.

And the only really impressive match from Serena in 07 was the final.
You continue to say things as if it is fact (which it isn't).

You also continue to interchange the words "difficult" and "more impressive".

It was more difficult for Serena to win 2007 Australian Open than it was for her to win Wimbledon 2010 and Olympic Gold in singles.

iHeartTroyBolton
Dec 5th, 2012, 04:26 AM
Legend DuPont though :D

Dominic
Dec 5th, 2012, 04:29 AM
You continue to say things as if it is fact (which it isn't).

You also continue to interchange the words "difficult" and "more impressive".

It was more difficult for Serena to win 2007 Australian Open than it was for her to win Wimbledon 2010 and Olympic Gold in singles.

Daniel can you please stop kidding? As a general statement, what is a more impressive/difficult task Winning a slam without dropping a set or winning one, dropping some sets on the way?

bandabou
Dec 5th, 2012, 06:21 AM
So now what, Dominic? As shown..the record for most majors won with losing a set is 6 by Navratilova and Serena has 4. So clearly winning a major without losing is a rarer occurance than winning while dropping sets here and there.

So why r u all over Serena?! :lol: :shrug: I know...haters can only hate. :wavey:

doomsday
Dec 5th, 2012, 07:09 AM
As great as Serena is, her fans should just stop trying so hard. This is not an impressive stat, we can easily turn this thing and say that Serena should have lost in the three majors that she won.

Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App (http://www.verticalsports.com/mobile)

bandabou
Dec 5th, 2012, 07:43 AM
As great as Serena is, her fans should just stop trying so hard. This is not an impressive stat, we can easily turn this thing and say that Serena should have lost in the three majors that she won.

Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App (http://www.verticalsports.com/mobile)

Still would have thrice as many as Masha, so..:wavey:

Halepsova
Dec 5th, 2012, 08:38 AM
As great as Serena is, her fans should just stop trying so hard. This is not an impressive stat, we can easily turn this thing and say that Serena should have lost in the three majors that she won.

Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App (http://www.verticalsports.com/mobile)

Yeah, like Sharapova never come back from MPs down. In case you didn't know, she survived from this situation a lot too. :rolleyes:

Helen Lawson
Dec 5th, 2012, 11:52 AM
It shows Serena is tough stuff!!

But show of hands who's tired of RVD starting threads in GM and then calling anyone who posts against it "stupid," "ignorant," or "asshole."? What are you, 5 years old?

NyCPsU
Dec 5th, 2012, 01:17 PM
It shows Serena is tough stuff!!

But show of hands who's tired of RVD starting threads in GM and then calling anyone who posts against it "stupid," "ignorant," or "asshole."? What are you, 5 years old?

:wavey:

Dominic
Dec 5th, 2012, 01:25 PM
I'm not in the mood to deal with illogical folks today.

:spit: Ok mister "it's not normal to expect an adult to be more mature than a child"

Matt01
Dec 5th, 2012, 04:03 PM
This thread :lol:


Another brilliant thread from RVD who again is becoming aggressive as soon as someone calls him out on his BS. :bs:

When will that clown finally be banned and restricted to the only area where his deluded posts have any reason to exist (Serena forum that is)?

:help:

JN
Dec 5th, 2012, 04:35 PM
Agreed, that is one ridiculous record :lol:

Another brilliant thread from RVD who again is becoming aggressive as soon as someone calls him out on his BS. :bs:

When will that clown finally be banned and restricted to the only area where his deluded posts have any reason to exist (Serena forum that is)?

:help:

You two, in a Serena thread, fanning the flames of your discontent. Hmm, now where have I seen that before? :scratch:

shoryuken
Dec 5th, 2012, 04:54 PM
Serena has been 3 points away from losing in 10 of her 15 slam victories I think.

1999 USO - 2 points (maybe 3?) away vs Clijsters
2002 RG - 3 points (maybe 2? maybe 4? :o) away vs Capriati
2003 AO - saved MP's vs Clijsters, 2 points away vs Loit
2005 AO - saved MP's vs Sharapova
2007 AO - 2 points away vs Peer, 3 points away vs Petrova
2009 AO - 2 (3?) points away vs Kuznetsova
2009 Wimbledon - saved MP against Dementieva
2010 AO - 3 points away vs Azarenka
2012 Wimbledon - 3 points away vs Shvedova, 4 points away vs Zheng
2012 USO - 2 points away vs Azarenka

:crying2:

Queen of the COMEBACKS! Praise HA!

http://i.minus.com/ib19jsZmhXhFmg.gif

RVD
Dec 5th, 2012, 06:58 PM
So much hate whenever Serena extends her GREATNESS!

This thread brought out the Serena haters, as expected.

So many so butt-hurt while Serena continues to do-her-thang to extend her legendary status and records. :devil:

Rest assured Haterz, that whenever Serena accomplishes anything that sets her apart from past or present faves, it WILL be posted, and you will all simply have to lick your pathetic wounds as she continues her ever forward progression to distance herself from her WTA constituents. :toothy::banana:

BuTtErFrEnA
Dec 5th, 2012, 07:51 PM
Queen of the COMEBACKS! Praise HA!

http://i.minus.com/ib19jsZmhXhFmg.gif

Don't let Miffedmax see this :scared: he's already on the edge

Kuzzy24
Dec 5th, 2012, 07:57 PM
I almost had a heart attack when serena came to net against dementieva on match point. Especially since she messed up like 5 easy volleys before that.

edificio
Dec 5th, 2012, 09:17 PM
Nice to learn about Margaret Osborne duPont. We don't learn enough about some of the players of the past.

Even though this record that Serena is supposed to have "notched" is not that important ultimately, coming back from match point down and winning is basically what we expect of champions--so I don't know why some want to say it diminishes the quality of your win. :shrug: No matter. The win is the win is the win is the win.

I enjoyed reading about Margaret Osborne duPont. :)

JN
Dec 5th, 2012, 09:30 PM
^ Indeed. Thank God for Serena, cuz w/o her we'd probably never hear about these vintage players who she joins in the record books. :worship:

i.will2
Dec 6th, 2012, 02:48 PM
Martina Navratilova said that what counts isn't that you can win when you're playing well, but when you're playing badly. This is actually what defines being a champion more than anything else. Continuing to prove yourself in all manner of match-contexts.

Exactly! This isn't necessarily a "record" one can shoot for. When you're an athlete in any professional sport being able to win when you're NOT firing on all cylinders is the epitome of a true champion. Serena has the tools in her game to be the best like the other women ranked in the top 10, but mentally Serena is on a different level compared to the rest of those players.

I liked the OP because it is pretty remarkable that she has done it soo many times and won a Major title at that. There are so many other past Grand Slam champions who have probably never saved a MP and go on to win a match let alone a Grand Slam title. :worship:

Stamp Paid
Dec 6th, 2012, 03:06 PM
Queen of the COMEBACKS! Praise HA!

http://i.minus.com/ib19jsZmhXhFmg.gif
Serena and that bullshit approach shot!!
Thank God it was against Demented :sobbing:

MrProdigy555
Dec 6th, 2012, 03:10 PM
Serena and that bullshit approach shot!!
Thank God it was against Demented :sobbing:
The volley even clipped the net. :lol:

RVD
Dec 6th, 2012, 04:41 PM
Slam Winners Saving Match Point

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/145/mpsavechmps.jpg

This was the best list that I could locate.

This one is great because the data also includes the number of match points saved.

Jennifer Capriati had the most saves in a slam Final, and that was vs Martina Hingis. at the 2002 AO. :cool:

There's one for the ATP as well but who cares. :lol:

BuTtErFrEnA
Dec 6th, 2012, 04:44 PM
Slam Winners Saving Match Point

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/145/mpsavechmps.jpg

This was the best list that I could locate.

This one is great because the data also includes the number of match points saved.

Jennifer Capriati had the most saves in a slam Final, and that was vs Martina Hingis. at the 2002 AO. :cool:

There's one for the ATP as well but who cares. :lol:

what's that :oh:

darrinbaker00
Dec 6th, 2012, 05:37 PM
Slam Winners Saving Match Point

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/145/mpsavechmps.jpg

This was the best list that I could locate.

This one is great because the data also includes the number of match points saved.

Jennifer Capriati had the most saves in a slam Final, and that was vs Martina Hingis. at the 2002 AO. :cool:

There's one for the ATP as well but who cares. :lol:

Tennis fans, that's who.

darrinbaker00
Dec 6th, 2012, 05:38 PM
^ Indeed. Thank God for Serena, cuz w/o her we'd probably never hear about these vintage players who she joins in the record books. :worship:

No, YOU would probably never hear about them. Some of us already knew.

BuTtErFrEnA
Dec 6th, 2012, 05:54 PM
No, YOU would probably never hear about them. Some of us already knew.

some of us aren't nearing 100 :p

Serenita
Dec 6th, 2012, 06:08 PM
Queen of the COMEBACKS! Praise HA!

http://i.minus.com/ib19jsZmhXhFmg.gif

Praise her Holly name:

http://i.minus.com/iU7sD0fjALFna.gif

:angel:

darrinbaker00
Dec 6th, 2012, 06:12 PM
some of us aren't nearing 100 :p

The obvious reply would be, "No, your IQ isn't nearing 100," but I won't do that to you this time. ;)

MrProdigy555
Dec 6th, 2012, 06:55 PM
some of us aren't nearing 100 :p
Bloop.

dragonflies
Dec 6th, 2012, 07:22 PM
Martina Navratilova said that what counts isn't that you can win when you're playing well, but when you're playing badly. This is actually what defines being a champion more than anything else. Continuing to prove yourself in all manner of match-contexts.

Surely any fan of Serena would devote time and analytical capacity to going into the specifics, the pressures a player might have faced in a given slam, on a given day, that affected form and performance rather than chiding other fans, getting into disputes over the verbal definitions and worrying about what insecure Serena haters will say.





This is actually a very good point.


As opposed to the common thinking way that usually look at the scorelines as the ultimate indicator, the fashion that you win and the strength of the opponents are what counts. Surely a 5 set win over Federer in the Wimbly final is much more impressive than routing Juan Monaco in 3 sets. Sharapova at the AO 05 was young, fearless, full of energy to run all over the court and had very good serves that could counted as one of her main weapons,. She also came in as a favorite having the last 2 matches between them, so Serena was able to come back to win being down match points was an incredible achievement.


Serena victory at the AO 07 was extremely impressive as she took it in a stunning fashion while she was at the worst shape of her tennis career. That Slam prompted Pat Cash to concede an apology for doubting Serena and made her fans ( myself included) most satisfied.

RVD
Dec 6th, 2012, 08:52 PM
what's that :oh::lol:
Tennis fans, that's who.Doncha mean primarily ATP tennis fans? :devil:

Matt01
Dec 6th, 2012, 09:30 PM
Queen of the COMEBACKS! Praise HA!

http://i.minus.com/ib19jsZmhXhFmg.gif

Praise her Holly name:

http://i.minus.com/iU7sD0fjALFna.gif

:angel:


Serena and her lucky shots :fiery:

;)

JN
Dec 7th, 2012, 03:52 AM
No, YOU would probably never hear about them. Some of us already knew.

some of us aren't nearing 100 :p

:lol: