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View Full Version : Are tennis players allowed to take blood transfusions before matches?


chuvack
Sep 4th, 2012, 03:51 PM
If so, is this a technique that could be beneficial to a player's short term fitness? And if not, how would the WTA, ITF or whoever actually check to make sure players aren't doing it?

tennisbum79
Sep 4th, 2012, 03:53 PM
why the questions?

Any background or back story?

chuvack
Sep 4th, 2012, 03:55 PM
why the questions?

Any background or back story?


There is, but I don't want to drag the name of a particular player into it.

tennisbum79
Sep 4th, 2012, 04:00 PM
There is, but I don't want to drag the name of a particular player into it.
That would be hard to, the jeannie is already out of the bottle.

The thread cannot develop w/o disclosing that.

At least you can lay out the situation/scenario w/o disclosing a name

Say Hey Kid
Sep 4th, 2012, 04:01 PM
This would fall under the category of "Blood Doping".

It is not allowed, and would give a player a tremendous advantage in terms of battling fatigue.

The ITF doesn't require you to give your blood when conducting drug tests, and thus there is nothing preventing athletes from cheating this way.

tennisbum79
Sep 4th, 2012, 04:08 PM
This would fall under the category of "Blood Doping".

It is not allowed, and would give a player a tremendous advantage in terms of battling fatigue.

The ITF doesn't require you to give your blood when conducting drug tests, and thus there is nothing preventing athletes from cheating this way.
Don't the players have to ask permission to the WTA before taking any medication during the tournament, or inform them of any medical treatment likely to affect their blood stream?

charmedRic
Sep 4th, 2012, 04:10 PM
That would be hard to, the jeannie is already out of the bottle.

The thread cannot develop w/o disclosing that.

At least you can lay out the situation/scenario w/o disclosing a name


Not true. You're just making the argument to discuss the player in question in order to fuel the thread.

When one can easily simply discuss blood doping and how it would apply to tennis given the existing regulatory atmosphere in the tennis circuits.

Simple as that.

tennisbum79
Sep 4th, 2012, 04:14 PM
Not true. You're just making the argument to discuss the player in question in order to fuel the thread.

When one can easily simply discuss blood doping and how it would apply to tennis given the existing regulatory atmosphere in the tennis circuits.

Simple as that.
You would be right if the the thread author had not voluntarily said there is player, but s/he does not want to mention any name.

If s/he truly just wanted to "discuss blood doping and how it would apply to tennis given the existing regulatory atmosphere in the tennis circuits" as you stated, s/he could simply have said that


But writing "There is, but I don't want to drag the name of a particular player into it." takes the thread into a speculative direction, whether s/he intended it or not

DOUBLEFIST
Sep 4th, 2012, 04:17 PM
There is, but I don't want to drag the name of a particular player into it.

This seems like some chickenshit stuff. Do the research yourself and find out and then create a thread for it.

miffedmax
Sep 4th, 2012, 04:27 PM
If only Dementieva could have had a brain inplant before her matches. :sobbing:

Super Dave
Sep 4th, 2012, 04:28 PM
Who would even want to do that? :unsure:

Lucemferre
Sep 4th, 2012, 04:34 PM
I'm sure Nadal can answer your questions.

Rocketta
Sep 4th, 2012, 05:25 PM
Hey, could this be a legal remedy for say someone with an immune disorder? :D

Uranium
Sep 4th, 2012, 05:32 PM
^No, since it would go against that someone's religion.

Serenita
Sep 4th, 2012, 05:42 PM
^No, since it would go against that someone's religion.
This we all know where this thread is heading. :Shrug:

Herbert
Sep 4th, 2012, 05:52 PM
The bible or whatever other holy text that certain someone lives by would strictly forbid her to get some blood transfusions of her own blood enhanced with her own red blood cells that was harvested from her own body a few days, weeks or months earlier?

MakarovaFan
Sep 4th, 2012, 06:05 PM
You would be right if the the thread author had not voluntarily said there is player, but s/he does not want to mention any name.
YOU ASKED
why the questions?

Any background or back story?

If s/he truly just wanted to "discuss blood doping and how it would apply to tennis given the existing regulatory atmosphere in the tennis circuits" as you stated, s/he could simply have said that


But writing "There is, but I don't want to drag the name of a particular player into it." takes the thread into a speculative direction, whether s/he intended it or not
That wasn't the OP.....
Are tennis players allowed to take blood transfusions before matches?
If so, is this a technique that could be beneficial to a player's short term fitness? And if not, how would the WTA, ITF or whoever actually check to make sure players aren't doing it?

Melange
Sep 4th, 2012, 06:08 PM
The bible or whatever other holy text that certain someone lives by would strictly forbid her to get some blood transfusions of her own blood enhanced with her own red blood cells that was harvested from her own body a few days, weeks or months earlier?

tennis comes first :lol:

tennisbum79
Sep 4th, 2012, 06:12 PM
That wasn't the OP.....
Are tennis players allowed to take blood transfusions before matches?
Yes it was a response from OP. Check this post

http://www.tennisforum.com/showpost.php?p=22147750&postcount=3

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2012, 06:13 PM
That would be hard to, the jeannie is already out of the bottle.

The thread cannot develop w/o disclosing that.

At least you can lay out the situation/scenario w/o disclosing a nameNot the jeannie :hysteric:

MaBaker
Sep 4th, 2012, 06:14 PM
No.

Tenis Srbija
Sep 4th, 2012, 06:14 PM
If only Dementieva could have had a brain inplant before her matches. :sobbing:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

paulmara
Sep 4th, 2012, 06:22 PM
Great idea

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/02/19/sports/olympics/20drug_graph.gif

Bismarck.
Sep 4th, 2012, 06:27 PM
Wasn't Paszek nearly banned for this?

Infiniti2001
Sep 4th, 2012, 06:53 PM
^No, since it would go against that someone's religion.

Exactly!! Too bad the OP doesn't have the balls to say what he really means :rolleyes:

Rocketta
Sep 4th, 2012, 07:08 PM
^No, since it would go against that someone's religion.

Dog, I was joking, totally forgot about Venus being a JW. :lol:

But in all seriousness, I do believe JW are able to get transfusions of their own blood... or that some are ok with that.... Now we can turn the conversation away from religion because they all have beliefs that some others don't agree with. :D

Rocketta
Sep 4th, 2012, 07:09 PM
Exactly!! Too bad the OP doesn't have the balls to say what he really means :rolleyes:

Man, today must be a slow day for me... didn't even cross my mind the OP was hinting at Venus.... Why would anyone think Venus would cheat? :scratch:

dybbuk
Sep 4th, 2012, 07:11 PM
So basically you accuse a player of blood doping but refuse to back up your accusations in any way? If you just wanted it to be a general question you could have denied that you were asking the question because of a particular player.

NashaMasha
Sep 4th, 2012, 07:16 PM
Do tennis player have blood passports? if they have , blood doping won't be useful. Really i don't think that they have, because in sports where WADA is taking care of it a number of sportsmen are DQ for five days or not allowed to take part in particular start (skiing, cycling) just because theier blood test sho anomaly Of course this anomaly can be natural , therefore these sportsmen are just suspended for a while

tennisbum79
Sep 4th, 2012, 07:17 PM
So basically you accuse a player of blood doping but refuse to back up your accusations in any way? If you just wanted it to be a general question you could have denied that you were asking the question because of a particular player.
Exactly, I made that very point as well.

But Makarovafan did not understand

garson
Sep 4th, 2012, 07:25 PM
This question could be interpreted as before matches or before a tournament start. It could also be interpreted as blood doping as many here have commented.

Generally, if a player volunteers to give blood, there must have been a severe accident involving huge blood loss. This could happen on a family member or someone else with matching blood type. The chance that this would be happening is very slim to none. Players need to focus on taking care of themselves between matches or before a tournament start. On the other hand, if an accident involves a player with huge blood loss, this means that he/she would not be able to continue to play. He/she may have to resign/withdraw from a tournament.

I guess I would not need to comment on any players taking blood transfusions.

pov
Sep 4th, 2012, 07:26 PM
Yes, tennis players are allowed to have blood transfusions up until 1 hour before a match. They are also allowed to load up on a selection of 3 PEDs (with no more than 1 steroid) each day.

Raiden
Sep 4th, 2012, 07:39 PM
Wasn't Paszek nearly banned for this?What Tamira underwent was quackery traditional Asian medicine.

NashaMasha
Sep 4th, 2012, 07:40 PM
Blood transaction - blood is taken from the player and put in the fridge, before the game (any time: at night before match or even in the morning) this blood is tranfused back to the player

The only way to detect transfusion is to have blood passports for all players and compare current blood test's data to the so-called sample tests of the exact sportsmen. If they see any difference in the number of red blood cells this sportsmen is suspended from competition....

IT's a very expensive system and is devloped in cycling and skiing.... I'm sure not yet in tennis , because we even have top players not tested for 2 years off-court

ShiftyFella
Sep 4th, 2012, 07:45 PM
Blood transaction - blood is taken from the player and put in the fridge, before the game (any time: at night before match or even in the morning) this blood is tranfused back to the player

The only way to detect transfusion is to have blood passports for all players and compare current blood test's data to the so-called sample tests of the exact sportsmen. If they see any difference in the number of red blood cells this sportsmen is suspended from competition....

IT's a very expensive system and is devloped in cycling and skiing.... I'm sure not yet in tennis , because we even have top players not tested for 2 years off-court
WTA just can do full body search for needle marks:haha::rolls:

NashaMasha
Sep 4th, 2012, 07:48 PM
WTA just can do full body search for needle marks:haha::rolls:

if it was that easy , some biathlonist wouldn't make from their apartments an operational for blood transfusion :)

(Austrian )

And almost on all Winter olympics 5-10 sportsmen are missing first week because of high hemoglobin , but when they drop the level of red cells in blood they are allowed next week to compete

Talula
Sep 4th, 2012, 09:17 PM
Man, today must be a slow day for me... didn't even cross my mind the OP was hinting at Venus.... Why would anyone think Venus would cheat? :scratch:

I agree.

It's a disgusting insinuation and it would have got out and made headlines. It's probably also libellous.

Talula
Sep 4th, 2012, 09:21 PM
So basically you accuse a player of blood doping but refuse to back up your accusations in any way? If you just wanted it to be a general question you could have denied that you were asking the question because of a particular player.

And this.

I've never said this before ever: this thread should be closed.

Melange
Sep 4th, 2012, 09:48 PM
Do tennis player have blood passports? if they have , blood doping won't be useful. Really i don't think that they have, because in sports where WADA is taking care of it a number of sportsmen are DQ for five days or not allowed to take part in particular start (skiing, cycling) just because theier blood test sho anomaly Of course this anomaly can be natural , therefore these sportsmen are just suspended for a while

If tennis had proper testing someone would have been banned long ago

Yes, tennis players are allowed to have blood transfusions up until 1 hour before a match. They are also allowed to load up on a selection of 3 PEDs (with no more than 1 steroid) each day.

True

PhilePhile
Sep 4th, 2012, 09:54 PM
Another method to achieve the same objective:


Blood Oxygen Saturation
A device known as a pulse oximeter measures the saturation of oxygen in your blood. The measurement taken using a pulse oximeter shows an estimation of your blood oxygen levels. Normal blood oxygen levels provide pulse oximeter readings between 95 and 100 percent. If your pulse oximeter reading drops below 90 percent, you have low blood oxygen levels known as hypoxemia. Hypoxemia eventually causes your tissues to experience an oxygen deficiency, known as hypoxia.
- Oct 20, 2011 | By Kimberly Wonderly (http://www.livestrong.com/article/548502-what-happens-to-the-blood-oxygen-level-when-a-human-exercises/) , livestrong.com



The purpose of blood doping is to boost the concentration of oxygen-carrying red cells in the blood with a view to enhancing athletic performance. Traditional doping methods include blood transfusion and the use of various substances designed to stimulate red blood cell production, technically known as erythropoeisis.

A newer technique involves inducing an apparent oxygen deficiency (hypoxia), which stimulates the body to increase erythropoiesis as a corrective reaction. Researchers have already suggested that gene therapy targeting the ‘hypoxia inducible factor pathway’ may in future be an alternative to traditional blood doping for athletes in search of a competitive edge.

Meanwhile, this effect can already be achieved by taking cobalt chloride, a compound traditionally used to treat anaemia, and which is a well- established chemical inducer of hypoxia-like responses, including erythropoiesis.
- Br J Sports Med (http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/blood-doping-1120) (website) 2005; 39; 872-873, pponline.co.uk



Cobalt chloride administration is an alternative and dangerous blood doping technique, which is virtually undetectable by anti-doping testing.
- G Lippi, M Franchini and G C Guidi, Br. J. Sports Med (http://www.dsmb.univr.it/documenti//ArticoloRivista/allegato/allegato873651.pdf) (PDF). 2005;39;872-873

edificio
Sep 4th, 2012, 09:57 PM
Wasn't Paszek nearly banned for this?

Yes. Here is the story. (http://www.austriantimes.at/?c=3&id=16149)

She was spared because she had not had the procedure done for the sake of performance enhancement (and had made a public announcement about having the procedure!).

JeMa
Sep 4th, 2012, 11:18 PM
Why would a woman need to do this? Who needs a transfusion after 3 sets of tennis? It would not seem to be a popular thing in tennis as it is in cycling. I mean get in better shape before you risk doing that kind of cheating.

JeMa
Sep 4th, 2012, 11:19 PM
Yes. Here is the story. (http://www.austriantimes.at/?c=3&id=16149)

She was spared because she had not had the procedure done for the sake of performance enhancement (and had made a public announcement about having the procedure!).

Link is not working for me. Would love to read this story.

JeMa
Sep 4th, 2012, 11:23 PM
Link is not working for me. Would love to read this story.

nevermind.

Very interesting. 4 years is stiff.

JeMa
Sep 4th, 2012, 11:27 PM
And this.

I've never said this before ever: this thread should be closed.

I didn't get that at all with this tread. Op opened a discussion and was pressed by a poster why. This was directed at no one in particular and another poster just questions as to whether it might be helpful to Venus for her syndrome - if legal was my assumptions.

I don't know why people have their panties in a twist, this is an interesting thread.

PhilePhile
Sep 4th, 2012, 11:31 PM
Why would a woman need to do this? Who needs a transfusion after 3 sets of tennis? It would not seem to be a popular thing in tennis as it is in cycling. I mean get in better shape before you risk doing that kind of cheating.

See below.

Great idea

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/02/19/sports/olympics/20drug_graph.gif



_ZV5140OykE

NashaMasha
Sep 4th, 2012, 11:38 PM
there are a number of sportsmen who naturally have high hemoglobin level (marathon runners, some speed-skaters ) , moreover it can be increased significantly if he/she is training high in the mountains ....

That's why it's really hard to define if it's artificial or natural.....

tennisbum79
Sep 4th, 2012, 11:44 PM
I didn't get that at all with this tread. Op opened a discussion and was pressed by a poster why. This was directed at no one in particular and another poster just questions as to whether it might be helpful to Venus for her syndrome - if legal was my assumptions.

I don't know why people have their panties in a twist, this is an interesting thread.
The OP is a veteran and savvy poster, not a novice.

If s/he wanted to keep it purely on a discussion that explore the topic in all its aspects. , s/he should not have said s/he has player in mind but does not want to name any names.

S/he could have simply stated , just a discussion, no particular player in mind. Period.

PhilePhile
Sep 5th, 2012, 12:09 AM
there are a number of sportsmen who naturally have high hemoglobin level (marathon runners, some speed-skaters ) , moreover it can be increased significantly if he/she is training high in the mountains ....

That's why it's really hard to define if it's artificial or natural.....

It's not how much more that is important but how much more of an edge you have against your opponent(s). Is there a limit for tennis players?


... if erythropoietin injections and blood doping are more effective, it may be only because they increase the red-cell mass to a dangerously high level.

- A Baker and W G Hopkins, "Altitude Training for Sea-Level Competition" (http://www.sportsci.org/traintech/altitude/wgh.html), sportsci.org

NashaMasha
Sep 5th, 2012, 12:17 AM
It's not how much more that is important but how much more of an edge you have against your opponent(s). Is there a limit for tennis players?


... if erythropoietin injections and blood doping are more effective, it may be only because they increase the red-cell mass to a dangerously high level.

- A Baker and W G Hopkins, "Altitude Training for Sea-Level Competition" (http://www.sportsci.org/traintech/altitude/wgh.html), sportsci.org

someone aged 30 can be running 5 sets like he is a Tony Parker in his prime :)

Tennis now is more about endurance and recovery from the long matches. Usain Bolt can't run his 100 meters at competitions 50-60 times a year. He won;t be able physically. Marathon runners take part in a very limited number of starts , IMHO 4-5 in a year .

Tennis players are really working hard and this game is too much physically demanding

Infiniti2001
Sep 5th, 2012, 12:52 AM
I didn't get that at all with this tread. Op opened a discussion and was pressed by a poster why. This was directed at no one in particular and another poster just questions as to whether it might be helpful to Venus for her syndrome - if legal was my assumptions.

I don't know why people have their panties in a twist, this is an interesting thread.

You obviously haven't been around long enough to step into this... We know the OP's motto:help:

DOUBLEFIST
Sep 5th, 2012, 01:10 AM
You obviously haven't been around long enough to step into this... We know the OP's motto:help:

This.

Babolatpro880
Sep 5th, 2012, 01:31 AM
This question could be interpreted as before matches or before a tournament start. It could also be interpreted as blood doping as many here have commented.

Generally, if a player volunteers to give blood, there must have been a severe accident involving huge blood loss. This could happen on a family member or someone else with matching blood type. The chance that this would be happening is very slim to none. Players need to focus on taking care of themselves between matches or before a tournament start. On the other hand, if an accident involves a player with huge blood loss, this means that he/she would not be able to continue to play. He/she may have to resign/withdraw from a tournament.

I guess I would not need to comment on any players taking blood transfusions.

This makes no sense and is totally irrelevant. I'm not sure that anyone actually asked about a player donating blood.

brickhousesupporter
Sep 5th, 2012, 01:49 AM
Hey, could this be a legal remedy for say someone with an immune disorder? :D
Removing blood, won't remove the cells that create the antibodies that attacks her body.

Rocketta
Sep 5th, 2012, 04:13 AM
Removing blood, won't remove the cells that create the antibodies that attacks her body.

Hmmm, interesting.... <off topic> I wonder if the research includes possible marrow or embryo cells transfer...???

chuvack
Sep 5th, 2012, 08:11 AM
The OP is a veteran and savvy poster, not a novice.

If s/he wanted to keep it purely on a discussion that explore the topic in all its aspects. , s/he should not have said s/he has player in mind but does not want to name any names.

S/he could have simply stated , just a discussion, no particular player in mind. Period.


Well, you're quite a piece of work, aren't you? You ask me the question, I try to give a polite answer that no names are going to be named, and then you attack me for fueling speculation? You are behaving like a hypocrit and should apologize for that bait-and-switch move...

chuvack
Sep 5th, 2012, 08:21 AM
This would fall under the category of "Blood Doping".

It is not allowed, and would give a player a tremendous advantage in terms of battling fatigue.

The ITF doesn't require you to give your blood when conducting drug tests, and thus there is nothing preventing athletes from cheating this way.


ok, thanks. So, I can assume 3 things from this answer, correct?

1) Yes, a blood transfusion would be beneficial to the tennis player in short term performance

2) No, it is not allowed (but maybe there are some medical exemptions?)

3) The WTA doesn't actually check to enforce the rule, and therefore players are left to their own moral choice as to whether or not to use blood transfusions for performance benefits.

chuvack
Sep 5th, 2012, 03:34 PM
If only Dementieva could have had a brain inplant before her matches. :sobbing:

First of all, I doubt that this would have helped much, but more importantly, it could have displaced Lena's bangs.

gentenaire
Sep 5th, 2012, 08:35 PM
ok, thanks. So, I can assume 3 things from this answer, correct?

1) Yes, a blood transfusion would be beneficial to the tennis player in short term performance

2) No, it is not allowed (but maybe there are some medical exemptions?)

3) The WTA doesn't actually check to enforce the rule, and therefore players are left to their own moral choice as to whether or not to use blood transfusions for performance benefits.

They don't even check for EPO at all, let alone blood doping. They can take EPO with hardly a risk of getting caught, so they don't even need to resort to blood doping.

Tennis Fool
Sep 6th, 2012, 03:55 AM
I've been seeing insinuations elsewhere today about a certain player still in the tournament, and no it's not Serena.

LoLex
Sep 6th, 2012, 04:42 AM
I've been seeing insinuations elsewhere today about a certain player still in the tournament, and no it's not Serena.

Yeah but that's nothing new. It was reported few months ago that Errani worked with him.

She was asked about it yesterday.

NEW YORK -- U.S. Open semifinalist Sara Errani says she will stop working with Luis Garcia del Moral, a former member of Lance Armstrong's medical staff who recently was handed a lifetime ban by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency.

Del Moral also worked with a handful of tennis players.

Last month, the International Tennis Federation said it would recognize the USADA ban. In an interview after her quarterfinal win Wednesday, Errani said the ITF told her she could go to del Moral if she wanted, but she said she would stop.

"Now, his name is not a good name," she said.

Del Moral was one of three members on Armstrong's medical staff handed lifetime suspensions, accused by USADA of participating in a doping conspiracy on Armstrong's teams during part or all of the cyclist's seven Tour de France victories.


Copyright 2012 by The Associated Press

Wiggly
Sep 6th, 2012, 05:11 AM
They better ask Ferrer too.

Tennis Fool
Sep 6th, 2012, 05:16 AM
^ That would be inquiring into the TennisVal Tennis Academy... would open up a bag of worms.

chuvack
Sep 6th, 2012, 07:45 AM
They better ask Ferrer too.


Why had they better ask this player or that player? They had better start serious testing, as that's the only fair way to deal with the issue without arbitrarily singling out names, or nationalities (the Spanish athletes seem to face a dis-proportionate amount of doping accusations, while nobody ever seems to accuse, for example, American athletes of doping). Look how long Lance Armstrong kept getting the benefit of the doubt.