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View Full Version : Rain Delay... But No Attempt to Cover The Court


tennisbum79
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:08 AM
... Any body knows why?

KournikovaFan91
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:09 AM
No covers at USO

DefyingGravity
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:09 AM
They don't use covers at the U.S. Open.

They have those big blower machines that dry the court pretty fast.

Vincey!
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:09 AM
They never cover hardcourts lol

WIMBLY2004
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:10 AM
it's hard court, they can simply mop it dry after the rain, no need to cover it, unlike grass or clay, it's hard to dry the court afterward

KournikovaFan91
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:10 AM
Covering would still be quicker but the USO think covers look unsightly when stored at the sides of the court. :tape:

Like this is a televised event not some ITF I think investing in covers would be a good idea when they get so much rain.

tennisbum79
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:18 AM
Covering would still be quicker but the USO think covers look unsightly when stored at the sides of the court. :tape:

Like this is a televised event not some ITF I think investing in covers would be a good idea when they get so much rain.
I agree with your assessment.

I think it could buy them some time.

Even if they don't see any noticeable improvement, I am sure they can improve the process with trials and errors overtime

thanks everyone for responding

fluffyelloballz
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:22 AM
I want to know where all the money is going at the USTA that they are too cheap to buy covers or get a roof.
They build an over-sized stadium where you can't even see the players from the top (to have the biggest tennis stadium in the world- wow!) and don't build a stadium with a roof in a location that is prone to huge rainfall that disrupts the play.

Vincey!
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:41 AM
Covering would still be quicker but the USO think covers look unsightly when stored at the sides of the court. :tape:

Like this is a televised event not some ITF I think investing in covers would be a good idea when they get so much rain.

I think they would need to rebuild the whole court for that. Where would the water from the cover go once you'd pull it off? In the stand? On the side of the courts to run down the court after? lol The reason they don't have cover is certainly not because it's not esthetic lol. So much rain? It's the 2nd rain delay in a week lol. AND in less than 30 minutes they can dry the court. It wouldn't be that much quicker to put covers when you'd need to dry the court as well cuz for sure some water would have pass a bit before putting the cover up or even while taking it off or it could have infiltrated while it was up as well.

n1_and_uh_noone
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:43 AM
Now that I remember, there was some argument that the moisture stays trapped under the covers and ruins the hardcourt or something. Or maybe it was just grumbling over the extra expense disguised as a scientific justification.

tennisbum79
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:48 AM
I think they would need to rebuild the whole court for that. Where would the water from the cover go once you'd pull it off? In the stand? On the side of the courts to run down the court after? lol The reason they don't have cover is certainly not because it's not esthetic lol. So much rain? It's the 2nd rain delay in a week lol. AND in less than 30 minutes they can dry the court wouldn't be that much quicker to put covers where you'd need to try the court as well cuz for sure some water would have pass a bit before putting the cover up

They could put drainage on one length of the court'
The covers would be elevated on one side, and low on the side with the drainage.
This way, the rain water go too the drainage.

As I said before, this would-be trial and errors process. I don't think it would be that expensive

KournikovaFan91
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:49 AM
I think they would need to rebuild the whole court for that. Where would the water from the cover go once you'd pull it off? In the stand? On the side of the courts to run down the court after? lol The reason they don't have cover is certainly not because it's not esthetic lol. So much rain? It's the 2nd rain delay in a week lol. AND in less than 30 minutes they can dry the court. It wouldn't be that much quicker to put covers when you'd need to dry the court as well cuz for sure some water would have pass a bit before putting the cover up or even while taking it off or it could have infiltrated while it was up as well.

They have actually stated the covers are unsightly and there is bound to be a drain somewhere on that court as it is, like if it was torrential rain it would have to go somewhere some towels and blowers couldn't solve that problem.

Tennis Fool
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:50 AM
I want to know where all the money is going at the USTA that they are too cheap to buy covers or get a roof.
They build an over-sized stadium where you can't even see the players from the top (to have the biggest tennis stadium in the world- wow!) and don't build a stadium with a roof in a location that is prone to huge rainfall that disrupts the play.
They upgraded Court 17 into a show court, and are building some administrative offices outside of Ashe.

ToopsTame
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:50 AM
Luckily the US Open schedule doesn't usually see many rain delays. But when they do get a lot of rain, they're the least prepared of all the slams. Do you remember how badly they screwed up in 2003? They'd spend hours towelling off the court and using dryers, only to have it get wet again in another shower soon after.

tennisbum79
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:51 AM
Now that I remember, there was some argument that the moisture stays trapped under the covers and ruins the hardcourt or something. Or maybe it was just grumbling over the extra expense disguised as a scientific justification.

Good point.
But this is America, we can do it if we try

Vincey!
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:52 AM
They could put drainage on one length of the court'
The covers would be elevated on one side, and low on the side with the drainage.
This way, the rain water go too the drainage.

As I said before, this would-be trial and errors process. I don't think it would be that expensive

well they'd need to rebuilt the whole courts to put that drain. And they'd need to dry it off after pulling it off anyway, since it would stay moist under the cover. When they uncover grass courts they always wait few minutes, I think it's 30 min, it's not to let the player come to the courts lol. It's easy to dry on Hard Court so it's not really useful. It would be only when there is torrential rains that leaves HUGE amount of water, but it doesn't happen every day lol

Tennis Fool
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:54 AM
Riker's Island guys have reappeared :D

Vincey!
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:55 AM
They have actually stated the covers are unsightly and there is bound to be a drain somewhere on that court as it is, like if it was torrential rain it would have to go somewhere some towels and blowers couldn't solve that problem.

Yes that's probably right! lol BUT still you'd have to blow dry after taking off the cover anyway.

cowsonice
Sep 3rd, 2012, 02:58 AM
I want to know where all the money is going at the USTA that they are too cheap to buy covers or get a roof.
They build an over-sized stadium where you can't even see the players from the top (to have the biggest tennis stadium in the world- wow!) and don't build a stadium with a roof in a location that is prone to huge rainfall that disrupts the play.

Arthur Ashe Stadium is essentially built on a swamp. Not architecturally sound to add a roof on to it.

the jamierbelyea
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:01 AM
It takes less than 20 minutes generally for the courts to be dried by the blowers usually. Even with a proper tarp and drainage system it wouldn't save all that much time.

If you just put the tarp down, the temperature underneath will cause condensation defeating the purpose really.


If you did a tent with a drain youd have to have fans underneath to circulate the air underneath it. It's extrap
work that would save a marginal amount of time.

Since the hard courts don't absorb the water like clay or grass, it'll generally not take very long to dry the top surface.

dencod16
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:04 AM
Actually some hardcourts do it, have covers that is. The reason is that the USTA doesn't find necessary to have covers.

Raiden
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:06 AM
Now that I remember, there was some argument that the moisture stays trapped under the covers and ruins the hardcourt or something. Or maybe it was just grumbling over the extra expense disguised as a scientific justification.That was it.

They use such excuses a lot (like their claim that human science has not advanced yet to the level of being able to construct a roof big enough to cover Arthur Ashe).

Clearly they believe the tennis world is crappy in physics.

tennisbum79
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:07 AM
well they'd need to rebuilt the whole courts to put that drain. And they'd need to dry it off after pulling it off anyway, since it would stay moist under the cover. When they uncover grass courts they always wait few minutes, I think it's 30 min, it's not to let the player come to the courts lol. It's easy to dry on Hard Court so it's not really useful. It would be only when there is torrential rains that leaves HUGE amount of water, but it doesn't happen every day lol

Technology can help.

For example, they could add moldy hot air blower to minimize the moisture

Tennis Fool
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:10 AM
Arthur Ashe Stadium is essentially built on a swamp. Not architecturally sound to add a roof on to it.
Lol, I'm thinking of a scene in Pillars of the Earth miniseries.

star
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:11 AM
Luckily the US Open schedule doesn't usually see many rain delays. But when they do get a lot of rain, they're the least prepared of all the slams. Do you remember how badly they screwed up in 2003? They'd spend hours towelling off the court and using dryers, only to have it get wet again in another shower soon after.

I think the US Open is the worst of the majors in terms of rain delays, actually. Probably the majority of the US Opens of the past ten years have been significantly impacted by rain. The men's final keeps ending up on Monday, for one thing.

Vincey!
Sep 3rd, 2012, 03:25 AM
Technology can help.

For example, they could add moldy hot air blower to minimize the moisture

LOL seriously? It seems simpler and almost as quick to simply dry them off. Would be a waste of time and money.

tennisbum79
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:00 AM
LOL seriously? It seems simpler and almost as quick to simply dry them off. Would be a waste of time and money.

Not surprised you LOL, people tend to dismiss simple, engineering ideas.

With the combo of tilted covers and blowers, the current lengthy drying time would be drastically reduced.

As with any engineering problem, it would take iterative trial to arrive at an optimum solution.

The bottom is line the current low tech, unimaginative approach is not satisfying.
And something needs to be done.

tennisbum79
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:26 AM
forecast calls for thunderstorm on Tuesday, Wednesday, and thursday

Vincey!
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:37 AM
Not surprised you LOL, people tend to dismiss simple, engineering ideas.

With the combo of tilted covers and blowers, the current lengthy drying time would be drastically reduced.

As with any engineering problem, it would take iterative trial to arrive at an optimum solution.

The bottom is line the current low tech, unimaginative approach is not satisfying.
And something needs to be done.
The goal is not to be imaginative lol. It's just a balance between efficiency and work. It would be ALOT of work to think and elaborate your idea, then to build it and find a way to keep those things all around the court without takin too much time to set when they need it. You also need to take into consideration how much time you would save. If blowing the court dry takes 20 to 30 minutes and that installin the cover and taking it off takes 10 to 15 minutes. It's not worth the effort. I mean your idea is good, that would probbly work, but it's not practical lol

forecast calls for thunderstorm on Tuesday, Wednesday, and thursday
Thunderstorms on the eascoast are usually on late afternoon/evening when the day was really humid. They are usually less than 1 hour long so it shouldn't be much of a problem.

tennisbum79
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:57 AM
The goal is not to be imaginative lol. It's just a balance between efficiency and work. It would be ALOT of work to think and elaborate your idea, then to build it and find a way to keep those things all around the court without takin too much time to set when they need it. You also need to take into consideration how much time you would save. If blowing the court dry takes 20 to 30 minutes and that installin the cover and taking it off takes 10 to 15 minutes. It's not worth the effort. I mean your idea is good, that would probbly work, but it's not practical lol


Thunderstorms on the eascoast are usually on late afternoon/evening when the day was really humid. They are usually less than 1 hour long so it shouldn't be much of a problem.

of course, there would be some inefficiencies at beginning.
But with gradual improvement of the crew (via adequate training) and e equipment you will easily forget the roadblocks you listed.


If there no immediate plans to have roof, they have to be IMAGINATIVE and come up with better solution.

The cost-benefit analysis in the long run, assuming no roof,would favor taking some actions, rather than the status quo

perseus2006
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:58 AM
If you review the architecural drawings I am sure you would find that all the USO courts have excellent drainage systems. Regardless of the amount of rain, once the rain stops, it's a simple procedure to squeege the standing water off the court and apply the blowers.

I am disappointed, though, that they haven't developed a Reverse Zamboni to squeege the court and suck the remaining water off it. It would just be fun to see the contraption in action!

ACEof DIAMONDS
Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:00 AM
Covering the hard courts, same dumb idea every year. It won't work, won't speed anything up.

kris719
Sep 3rd, 2012, 05:44 AM
the courts at the uso actually dry really fast on their own, even without the help of squeegees and driers which they use on the main courts. after the rain ended on monday I was surprised at how quickly the courts dried.

the jamierbelyea
Sep 3rd, 2012, 09:17 AM
:drool:of course, there would be some inefficiencies at beginning.
But with gradual improvement of the crew (via adequate training) and e equipment you will easily forget the roadblocks you listed.


If there no immediate plans to have roof, they have to be IMAGINATIVE and come up with better solution.

The cost-benefit analysis in the long run, assuming no roof,would favor taking some actions, rather than the status quo

At the end of the day, when it takes approximately 18 minutes to dry off the court now, investing time and energy to improve it by very little seems fruitless.

Grigorpova
Sep 3rd, 2012, 09:20 AM
I think it's fine the way it is.

tejmeglekvár
Sep 3rd, 2012, 10:09 AM
IIRC an article said couple years ago New Haven already tried this, but covers damaged the courts. So...

Cant find the article now though.

Raiden
Sep 3rd, 2012, 10:30 AM
:drool:

At the end of the day, when it takes approximately 18 minutes to dry off the court now, investing time and energy to improve it by very little seems fruitless.Why?

I the USTA too stingy to by a decent (thus also fast enough) dryer? Maybe rolling on zamboni-wheels or something?

kris719
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:17 PM
Why?

I the USTA too stingy to by a decent (thus also fast enough) dryer? Maybe rolling on zamboni-wheels or something?

they do have dryers for the main courts

tennisbum79
Sep 3rd, 2012, 06:12 PM
:drool:

At the end of the day, when it takes approximately 18 minutes to dry off the court now, investing time and energy to improve it by very little seems fruitless.

The estimate seems to vary a lot.
I have read in this thread anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes.

Baseball, which covers a much wider field, has developed a fast and effective way to pull the cover in no time.

The whole point is to shorten the overall delay length

I don't see the considerable effort, prohibitive additional cost you guys keep bringing up.

Vincey!
Sep 3rd, 2012, 07:00 PM
The estimate seems to vary a lot.
I have read in this thread anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes.

Baseball, which covers a much wider field, has developed a fast and effective way to pull the cover in no time.

The whole point is to shorten the overall delay length

I don't see the considerable effort, prohibitive additional cost you guys keep bringing up.

Seriously you'd only save 15 to 20 minutes :shrug: That's not even long enough for the crowd to all come back in the stand so if it'd take only 5 minutes nobody will be there. I don't understand what's your big rush that you can't wait 15 to 30 minutes lol. The long part with the rain delay is when it's actually raining, and there's nothin you can do about that. Even with cover, players don't jump on the court right when they take it off. They need to warn the players some times in advance that the play will resume, call the umpire, the linesperson, the ballkids etc...it all takes about 15 to 20 minutes to have all that in place anyway.

tennisbum79
Sep 4th, 2012, 08:55 PM
Thunderstorms on the eascoast are usually on late afternoon/evening when the day was really humid. They are usually less than 1 hour long so it shouldn't be much of a problem.
It has been more than an hour already, 2nd rain delay of the day

mdterp01
Sep 4th, 2012, 09:03 PM
I said this in live commentary. I think it would shorten the drying process.

tennisbum79
Sep 4th, 2012, 09:04 PM
Seriously you'd only save 15 to 20 minutes :shrug: That's not even long enough for the crowd to all come back in the stand so if it'd take only 5 minutes nobody will be there. I don't understand what's your big rush that you can't wait 15 to 30 minutes lol. The long part with the rain delay is when it's actually raining, and there's nothin you can do about that. Even with cover, players don't jump on the court right when they take it off. They need to warn the players some times in advance that the play will resume, call the umpire, the linesperson, the ballkids etc...it all takes about 15 to 20 minutes to have all that in place anyway.

I think we have an honest disagreement here.

I am of the opinion that, in this age of technology, things do not need to stay the way they are... if we can help it.
And especially initial benefits-cost analysis should not be the end-all to any attempt to improve things.

OTH, you think initial benefits-cost analysis should be the last word.


Just think of the kind of small inconveniences we learned to live with for a long time.
Today, there not need for pay phone at every corner; we lived with for a long time.


Our patience gets shorter and shorter, and soon or later , it will extend to watching the court being dried

Rolling-Thunder
Sep 4th, 2012, 10:21 PM
15-20 minutes drying out an uncovered court plus a warmup leads to at least a 30 minute delay after the rain fall. If more rain is expected as it is, then those 30 minute delays add up. A cover over the court just makes sense, even if the court has to be dried down some. If they covered it, then it would likely just be the outside and not the entire court which would need to be dried.

They could install a pull out cover on both sides of the court at the base of the wall. The covers could meet in the middle at the net.

tennisbum79
Sep 4th, 2012, 10:49 PM
15-20 minutes drying out an uncovered court plus a warmup leads to at least a 30 minute delay after the rain fall. If more rain is expected as it is, then those 30 minute delays add up. A cover over the court just makes sense, even if the court has to be dried down some. If they covered it, the would likely just be the outside and not the entire court which would need to be dried.

They could install a pull out cover on both sides of the court at the base of the wall. The covers could meet in the middle at the net.

I agree,.
That is a variance of my suggestion.

In your suggestion, the middle could be more elevated than the sides, allowing the rain water to run down the side drains.
This will shorten the drying time.

Hopefully, with an efficiently trained crew, covering the court will be fast, minimizing the amount of rain drop on the court surface.

danieln1
Sep 5th, 2012, 12:15 AM
Do they cover the court at the Australian Open?

pov
Sep 5th, 2012, 05:38 AM
Now that I remember, there was some argument that the moisture stays trapped under the covers and ruins the hardcourt or something. Or maybe it was just grumbling over the extra expense disguised as a scientific justification.
I'd guess the latter as if trapped moisture would damage the court, the water lying on top of it would do even more damage.

All they need is some shoes that don't slip on wet surfaces and some balls that don't absorb water.

dany.p
Sep 5th, 2012, 06:46 AM
Even without covers, it should not take 30 minutes to dry. They aren't grass courts. Just get all the ball kids involved, should only take max 15 minutes, and on average less. If it's consistently taking longer then 15 minutes to dry, they should modify the current process, or reconsider using covers.

Vincey!
Sep 5th, 2012, 06:54 AM
I think we have an honest disagreement here.

I am of the opinion that, in this age of technology, things do not need to stay the way they are... if we can help it.
And especially initial benefits-cost analysis should not be the end-all to any attempt to improve things.

OTH, you think initial benefits-cost analysis should be the last word.


Just think of the kind of small inconveniences we learned to live with for a long time.
Today, there not need for pay phone at every corner; we lived with for a long time.


Our patience gets shorter and shorter, and soon or later , it will extend to watching the court being dried
Well if people wanna spend time for a pretty much useless project that's up to them. I just don't think they need it. They could work on faster way to dry the courts tho, making better dryer. That'd be a good evolution of the technology. I just feel like you want change just to change things, it's like you'd get the new ipod cuz it comes in a different color...yours is still perfectly working but you still want something new, cuz it'd be new and look better. As for the pay phone example, they didn't used a totally new way of calling people, the phone just evolved into being portable and personal....a cellphone. So instead of tryin to change totally the existing way of doin things, I'm for minor change and improvement of the techniques/equipment. AND seriously if 5 or 10 minutes is too long for you, don't even bother watching a live event lol. There's always going to be something that could bother the play.

Vincey!
Sep 5th, 2012, 06:57 AM
It has been more than an hour already, 2nd rain delay of the day

that wasn't a thunderstorm tho lol it was showers ;) You said there was goin to be thunderstorms lol.

tennisbum79
Sep 5th, 2012, 07:17 AM
Well if people wanna spend time for a pretty much useless project that's up to them. I just don't think they need it. They could work on faster way to dry the courts tho, making better dryer. That'd be a good evolution of the technology.
I guess you evolve to a point we can agree on, that is also my goal.

I just feel like you want change just to change things, it's like you'd get the new ipod cuz it comes in a different color...yours is still perfectly working but you still want something new, cuz it'd be new and look better. As for the pay phone example, they didn't used a totally new way of calling people, the phone just evolved into being portable and personal....a cellphone.

NO, you got this wrong.
That is not what I am saying. I want to change things because there is a need or anticipate a need in the near future.


The example of ipod and different color is totally missing the mark.
Instead, evolution from walkman to ipod is a good analogy of what I am advocating.

So instead of tryin to change totally the existing way of doin things, I'm for minor change and improvement of the techniques/equipment. AND seriously if 5 or 10 minutes is too long for you, don't even bother watching a live event lol. There's always going to be something that could bother the play.

It is clear that we disagree. You are for incremental changes, and if they don't add values to previous version, you stop or give up.

For me, it is an iterative process of trials and errors; I will keep looking until I get to a solution that add value to previous version of the product.

tennisbum79
Sep 5th, 2012, 07:20 AM
that wasn't a thunderstorm tho lol it was showers ;) You said there was goin to be thunderstorms lol.
The bottom line is, you said it would be just one hour. It turns out to be 3+hours and many matches were postponed.

But this is not the focus of this discussion.

PS>>>
Why are your posts peppered with "lol", are you that young?

ivanban
Sep 5th, 2012, 08:20 AM
Do they cover the court at the Australian Open?

Yes, with retractable roof(s) ;)

Mightymirza
Sep 5th, 2012, 08:32 AM
Why cover the courts when you can waste tons of energy with big blowdrying machines :tape: