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BikezAreForever!
Aug 29th, 2012, 11:09 AM
We all now that since PK parted company with Ivanko, she is looking for new fitness coach. But what about Kotyza? Should she make radical change and rebuild her team from ground up?

Funnily enough there were four titles which PK won when Kotyza was not around (Brisbane, Paris, Linz and now Montreal). Thats almost half tourneys. They have special bond but is he now out of his depth to get champion like PK forward? Too many times I saw her first sets appear to be based on wrong strategy. What would you suggest:

- stay with Kotyza, he is a great coach. Also there is a good chemistry between those two.
- dont get rid of Kotyza, he is an average coach but it would mean too much disruptions to PK's team,
- start finding a new coach while negotiating with Kotyza some sort of involvement,
- tell Kotyza that his contract will expire (???) and start looking for a new coach,
- fire Kotyza now.

Discuss.

mac47
Aug 29th, 2012, 11:30 AM
Keep Kotyza, but don't bring him to the court.

It is not nothing that Petra is a fixture in the top 10 now, and that she has the best average results at the slams of anyone on the WTA tour.

I think replacing Ivanko was the right move.

vendulkabendulka
Aug 29th, 2012, 06:26 PM
I'm not sure if she replaced Ivanko or Cernosek did. I'd say the second option is correct. Mofo has his fingers everywhere.

paulmara
Aug 29th, 2012, 07:49 PM
I'm not sure if she replaced Ivanko or Cernosek did.

Černošek. He was relocated

29.08.2012 07:11Kvitovou už Ivanko nepřipravuje
Petra Kvitová se po 3 a půl letech rozešla s kondičním trenérem Jozefem Ivankem, který dvaadvacetileté rodačce z Fulneku pomohl na druhé místo světového žebříčku nebo k triumfům ve Wimbledonu či na Turnaji mistryň. "Jozef Ivanko byl pověřený Miroslavem Černoškem, aby v Prostějově vedl nadějné české juniory,“ řekl Deníku Sport Karel Tejkal z agentury Česká sportovní.

Excelscior
Aug 29th, 2012, 08:26 PM
@Bikez

That's been long discussions here, if you been reading the threads. Lol.

But I take option 3 at the moment: - start finding a new coach while negotiating with Kotyza some sort of involvement

@Paulmara

What the heck does that mean? Lol

Excelscior
Aug 29th, 2012, 08:39 PM
If funny you brought up this topic Bikez (Kotyza being out of his depth and/or wrong 1st set strategy), cause I thought the best I ever seen Petra play (along with Wimbledon 2011, but for different reasons) was YEC 2011.

I felt that strategy of constant variety, touch, net closing, spin/angles, loopers, juxtaposed with baseline power, was the recipe/ticket for Petra against anybody.

And Kotyza even said, that's what he wanted Petra to do in the future.

But there are many matches and many opponents, where Petra could win a lot of cheap points, a lot sooner if she was just go to the net, or use her variety more (and of course cutting down on errors).

ShiftyFella
Aug 29th, 2012, 09:03 PM
I think she must get a proper fitness coach that would actually travel with her and better prepare her for the games. Many problems for Petra was due to her poor conditioning this season.

Excelscior
Aug 29th, 2012, 09:09 PM
I think she must get a proper fitness coach that would actually travel with her and better prepare her for the games. Many problems for Petra was due to her poor conditioning this season.

Petra's "lack of conditioning", was due to being sick, and missing her conditioning in the first place.

But it all stems back from her coaches, cause they were the ones that allowed her to get injured and sick in the first, place so she could miss her training and conditioning.

She had no problems last year (except during the spring hardcourt season in Doha, Dubai and the US, following long Brisbane, Oz and Paris indoor runs for the first time). But she closed out the year strong, when everyone else was tired.

We must keep this in perspective

ShiftyFella
Aug 29th, 2012, 09:27 PM
Petra's "lack of conditioning", was due to being sick, and missing her conditioning in the first place.

But it all stems back from her coaches, cause they were the ones that allowed her to get injured and sick in the first, place so she could miss her training and conditioning.

She had no problems last year (except during the spring hardcourt season in Doha, Dubai and the US, following long Brisbane, Oz and Paris indoor runs for the first time).

We must keep this in perspective
She needs to sustain her level of athleticism constant or even raised it to another level, Ivanko didn't put much needed sense of urgency on that which led to injury and loss of form which improved a bit as season progressed.

Excelscior
Aug 29th, 2012, 09:47 PM
She needs to sustain her level of athleticism constant or even raised it to another level, Ivanko didn't put much needed sense of urgency on that which led to injury and loss of form which improved a bit as season progressed.

I'm not telling you Ivanko is/was perfect. Cause he was not.

But my question is, how could Petra had done that, when she got injured in Dec 2011, then missed out on her training, sick in Doha and Sick at Indian Wells (plus she took of 3 weeks during the middle of the season, during Doha/Dubai/before the US spring run, doing nothing to heal her achilles).

Now, I still blame those things on her team, but it's expected your results and conditioning are going to be below par, if you're intermittently not playing or practicing.

Last year during the spring, she wasn't used to that type of winning (like most players that would of been in her position, just like after Wimbledon 2010.

I know what you're getting at. But it's not always that cut and dry. The bottom like is, either way they screwed up with certain decisions, which impacted Petra's season, and we don't need to see it again.

steni
Aug 29th, 2012, 09:52 PM
Probably her asthma has something to do with her fitness, I dont think she can train at the same level of other girls, it must be a pain all this breathing issues. Before she got sick she was fine to me...

Excelscior
Aug 29th, 2012, 10:11 PM
@Steni

I'm not sure if it's her asthma we're talking about outside of North America this year or in previous years.

Petra couldn't train as long or much this year, cause she was sick and injured, and needed to heal/recover. At least that's what they told us.

Outside of the NA Asthma, I didn't see Petra's conditioning last year different than any other player. You could argue, it was better than most.

And I think more of her American summer last year, probably had more to do with her Slam hangover than anything else.

ShiftyFella
Aug 29th, 2012, 10:17 PM
I'm not telling you Ivanko is/was perfect. Cause he was not.

But my question is, how could Petra had done that, when she got injured in Dec 2011, then missed out on her training, sick in Doha and Sick at Indian Wells (plus she took of 3 weeks during the middle of the season, during Doha/Dubai/before the US spring run, doing nothing to heal her achilles).

Now, I still blame those things on her team, but it's expected your results and conditioning are going to be below par, if you're intermittently not playing or practicing.

Last year during the spring, she wasn't used to that type of winning (like most players that would of been in her position, just like after Wimbledon 2010.

I know what you're getting at. But it's not always that cut and dry. The bottom like is, either way they screwed up with certain decisions, which impacted Petra's season, and we don't need to see it again.
I understand when you got injured rhythm is broken and it's hard to get back into shape quickly, but i still feel like Petra's team should've done much more, especially knowing that this season is packed and Petra just can ran out of juice. Hopefully everything would be OK.

Petra also should consider having training base outside the Czech Republic with climate similar to US where she can train to adapt for not so favorable conditions

upd
Probably her asthma has something to do with her fitness, I dont think she can train at the same level of other girls, it must be a pain all this breathing issues. Before she got sick she was fine to me...
I don't know what doctors says about her asthma but here in ukraine our doctors actually advise to take some aerobic exercises to improve breathing

Lufa
Aug 29th, 2012, 10:41 PM
Give Ivanko some break, guy (and Kotyza) in 2 years transformed Petra from talented but pretty fat girl into Wimby and YEC champ and player of the year.
Still remember how she joked about cutting and eating pineapple every evening at Wimby11, she was so focused then...
Things went not so well this year, but I don't think couches are the only one to blame, Novak couldn't repeat his 2011 either and he is much more experienced than Petra.
Changing both coaches at once would be too much, so only one (less important?) went ...

Excelscior
Aug 29th, 2012, 10:43 PM
I understand when you got injured rhythm is broken and it's hard to get back into shape quickly, but i still feel like Petra's team should've done much more, especially knowing that this season is packed and Petra just can ran out of juice. Hopefully everything would be OK.

Petra also should consider having training base outside the Czech Republic with climate similar to US where she can train to adapt for not so favorable conditions

upd

I don't know what doctors says about her asthma but here in ukraine our doctors actually advise to take some aerobic exercises to improve breathing

I hear ya fella!!

And yeah, I don't think she should stay in the Czech Republic either. But I think that will never happen in the near, foreseeable future. :lol:

bruce goose
Aug 30th, 2012, 05:19 AM
- stay with Kotyza, he is a great coach. Also there is a good chemistry between those two.
- dont get rid of Kotyza, he is an average coach but it would mean too much disruptions to PK's team,
- start finding a new coach while negotiating with Kotyza some sort of involvement,
- tell Kotyza that his contract will expire (???) and start looking for a new coach,
- fire Kotyza now.

Discuss.Well,you overlooked one possible option: If Petra swept to the USO title,she could become an arrogant,self-assured diva---as some fans feared---and decide that she didn't need ANY coach:eek:...but,if Petra DOES win the Slam,let's hope it doesn't lead to THAT kind of result;)

Martina CZ
Aug 30th, 2012, 01:37 PM
Ivanko did a great job with Petra - there is an interview from last year (in Slovak): http://sport.cas.sk/clanok/201486/slovak-ivanko-kvitovu-nicil-cinkami-a-zakazal-jej-cokoladu.html
I wouldn't be hard on him. He worked with Petra for over 3 years, had to start her conditioning from the beginning - it isn't easy to find someone for junior with good physiotherapy background, experienced sportsman himself.
As stated in the article, Ivanko ordered to Petra even male dosage of training (speaking of 2011 here) - so for the "not good enough and lazy Petra" as was mentioned in Petra's subforums earlier.
If he wouldn't be so good, Cernosek will end contract with him, but at the moment I think Petra needs someone full-time, doing also physiotherapy with her on daily basis and Ivanko will be more useful with Pavlasek and other top-talented juniors in Prostejov' club.
Oh well, let's see ;)

Excelscior
Aug 30th, 2012, 02:21 PM
Ivanko did a great job with Petra - there is an interview from last year (in Slovak): http://sport.cas.sk/clanok/201486/slovak-ivanko-kvitovu-nicil-cinkami-a-zakazal-jej-cokoladu.html
I wouldn't be hard on him. He worked with Petra for over 3 years, had to start her conditioning from the beginning - it isn't easy to find someone for junior with good physiotherapy background, experienced sportsman himself.
As stated in the article, Ivanko ordered to Petra even male dosage of training (speaking of 2011 here) - so for the "not good enough and lazy Petra" as was mentioned in Petra's subforums earlier.
If he wouldn't be so good, Cernosek will end contract with him, but at the moment I think Petra needs someone full-time, doing also physiotherapy with her on daily basis and Ivanko will be more useful with Pavlasek and other top-talented juniors in Prostejov' club.
Oh well, let's see ;)

Good Point Martina (if I read this right).

This is what I've always noted.....Petra was properly trained physically.

Some people look at Petra's tummy (where if you can look close enough she has cuts, even with the relative bloat), and assume she wasn't well conditioned.

She was! Did anyone see Petra 3 yrs ago, and how she looked? Not even close. :lol:

Petra was 62-13 last year (I'm too lazy to look it up), and won over 82% of her matches-anyway you interpret it (whether including her ITF's or not). Only a well conditioned athlete could win so many big events at such a high percentage.

What happened this year was, due to various blunders and unfortunate illnesses which we've discussed ad nauseum here. This affected Petra's health, fitness, Tennis practice and match play (or so they say on her fitness and tennis practice), and they should be held accountable.

I hope who ever Petra gets, she will be in even better condition, explosion and speed towards the end of the year and next year (i.e. continual forward progression).

How she looks, would only be a bonus.

Of course Petra can't seem to control getting rid of some of Nike's more ill fitting outfits on her. :lol: :oh: :lol:

mac47
Aug 30th, 2012, 03:49 PM
Give Ivanko some break, guy (and Kotyza) in 2 years transformed Petra from talented but pretty fat girl into Wimby and YEC champ and player of the year.
Still remember how she joked about cutting and eating pineapple every evening at Wimby11, she was so focused then...
Things went not so well this year, but I don't think couches are the only one to blame, Novak couldn't repeat his 2011 either and he is much more experienced than Petra.
Changing both coaches at once would be too much, so only one (less important?) went ...


Fair enough. I never got the sense that Petra was wedded to Ivanko as a fitness trainer. I think credit is due: he did a good job, and made her a top player.

I don't think this season has been a "change the coach now!" situation. Her results are solid, if disappointing because she has missed the big prizes. If she ends the year without a major title and crashes and burns at the YEC, then maybe reevaluate. But even then, maybe give it a few more majors to see.

steni
Aug 30th, 2012, 08:47 PM
Maybe that semifinal lost at the AO affected her more than we thought, it was heartbreaking!

Petronius
Aug 30th, 2012, 08:56 PM
Ivanko did a great job with Petra - there is an interview from last year (in Slovak): http://sport.cas.sk/clanok/201486/slovak-ivanko-kvitovu-nicil-cinkami-a-zakazal-jej-cokoladu.html
I wouldn't be hard on him. He worked with Petra for over 3 years, had to start her conditioning from the beginning - it isn't easy to find someone for junior with good physiotherapy background, experienced sportsman himself.
As stated in the article, Ivanko ordered to Petra even male dosage of training (speaking of 2011 here) - so for the "not good enough and lazy Petra" as was mentioned in Petra's subforums earlier.
If he wouldn't be so good, Cernosek will end contract with him, but at the moment I think Petra needs someone full-time, doing also physiotherapy with her on daily basis and Ivanko will be more useful with Pavlasek and other top-talented juniors in Prostejov' club.
Oh well, let's see ;)

Nice article, thanks. I wonder whether they have already found a replacement? She probably won't need any special fitness preparation until off-season so they have plenty of time to find a substitute (and I think they probably have several candidates - who wouldn't like to work with a promising top 5 WTA player?)

bruce goose
Aug 31st, 2012, 06:04 AM
Good Point Martina (if I read this right).

This is what I've always noted.....Petra was properly trained physically.

Some people look at Petra's tummy (where if you can look close enough she has cuts, even with the relative bloat), and assume she wasn't well conditioned.

She was! Did anyone see Petra 3 yrs ago, and how she looked? Not even close. :lol:

Petra was 62-13 last year (I'm too lazy to look it up), and won over 82% of her matches-anyway you interpret it (whether including her ITF's or not). Only a well conditioned athlete could win so many big events at such a high percentage.

What happened this year was, due to various blunders and unfortunate illnesses which we've discussed ad nauseum here. This affected Petra's health, fitness, Tennis practice and match play (or so they say on her fitness and tennis practice), and they should be held accountable.

I hope who ever Petra gets, she will be in even better condition, explosion and speed towards the end of the year and next year (i.e. continual forward progression).Just to make sure there wasn't any misunderstanding,I wasn't implying that Petra was in bad or inadequate shape to succeed,physically...only that NO ONE could realistically expect to do well in most cases without normal amounts of rest

ArcticMoose
Aug 31st, 2012, 01:20 PM
broadening the term coach out in relation to the Kvitty entourage...

Acknowledged that Ivanko did help to get her from where she was to a slam champion but needed to be shown the door as it was clear he could not help her in the next phase of her fitness & movement evolution ...

Just as Novak made adjustments to bringin success with his Fitness trainer I am sure Kvitty camp has done the correct thing on Ivanko...

Huggybear can hang around as museum guide, bag carrier & cook etc plus phone-a-friend-companion but fresh advising/coaching/guiding/technical talent needs to be brought into the kvitty camp before time runs out - she is going to be 23 soon and is no more the 18 yr teenager with a decade ahead of her...

The PR/language coach Katie has been a success - kvitty is now totally in a different league in relation to media/PR handling skills & language ability considering her starting point ...

To maintain the pre-slam status quo is simply untennable considering Kvitty's potential...

ArcticMoose
Aug 31st, 2012, 09:00 PM
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1937595861/949615__normal.jpg Petra KvitovaVerified ‏@Petra_Kvitova (http://twitter.com/Petra_Kvitova)30 Aug (http://twitter.com/Petra_Kvitova/status/241225403140804609)
A big Happy Birthday to my super coach David. Thanks for always being there for me :)



https://p.twimg.com/A1kBOeGCEAAiMj9.jpg (http://twitter.com/Petra_Kvitova/status/241225403140804609/photo/1/large)


:devil::mad::fiery: huggybear:devil::mad::fiery:

Petronius
Aug 31st, 2012, 10:22 PM
:devil::mad::fiery: huggybear:devil::mad::fiery:

LOL, unlike Petra, Li Na was upset today by a British youngster despite having the former Justine Henin coach at her disposal. Maybe Li Na should sack him so that Petra can have him as a valuable replacement for David Kotyza :lol:

BikezAreForever!
Sep 1st, 2012, 01:04 AM
LOL, unlike Petra, Li Na was upset today by a British youngster despite having the former Justine Henin coach at her disposal. Maybe Li Na should sack him so that Petra can have him as a valuable replacement for David Kotyza :lol:

Well we both know how long Rodriguez been with Na, so ... :rolleyes:

I love this 'huggybear' nickname though. :lol: Is it your own invention Moose?

Excelscior
Sep 1st, 2012, 01:20 AM
Well we both know how long Rodriguez been with Na, so ... :rolleyes:

I love this 'huggybear' nickname though. :lol: Is it your own invention Moose?

Truly great name, cause the man really likes to hug. :lol:

And if anyone is familiar with the original "Huggy Bear" character, from 70's TV show Starsky and Hutch, it makes it even more funny hearing the name. :lol: :eek: :lol:

Queen Petra Fan
Sep 1st, 2012, 08:07 AM
Ivanko did a great job with Petra - there is an interview from last year (in Slovak): http://sport.cas.sk/clanok/201486/slovak-ivanko-kvitovu-nicil-cinkami-a-zakazal-jej-cokoladu.html
I wouldn't be hard on him. He worked with Petra for over 3 years, had to start her conditioning from the beginning - it isn't easy to find someone for junior with good physiotherapy background, experienced sportsman himself.
As stated in the article, Ivanko ordered to Petra even male dosage of training (speaking of 2011 here) - so for the "not good enough and lazy Petra" as was mentioned in Petra's subforums earlier.
If he wouldn't be so good, Cernosek will end contract with him, but at the moment I think Petra needs someone full-time, doing also physiotherapy with her on daily basis and Ivanko will be more useful with Pavlasek and other top-talented juniors in Prostejov' club.
Oh well, let's see ;)


Very good points Martina. He did deserve credit for his hard work and maybe we are being unfair or too hard on him for his more recent shortcomings.

And like you said, there's no way Cernosek would keep him around if he had lost total confidence in Ivanko's skills.
He probably just feels Petra needs someone who is very experienced in working with pro players who can take her fitness to the next level so she can consistently squash the likes of Serena and Masha who beat her not only with their games but with their superior conditioning. Petra has been losing the conditioning war and it's cost her some big victories this year and maybe even the No. 1 ranking.

Ivanko's a good man so let's wish him a lot of success in his new job as he works with the future of Czech men's tennis. Good job and best of luck Pepo! :worship:

Excelscior
Sep 1st, 2012, 08:20 AM
Just to make sure there wasn't any misunderstanding,I wasn't implying that Petra was in bad or inadequate shape to succeed,physically...only that NO ONE could realistically expect to do well in most cases without normal amounts of rest

Oh no. You kool Bruce. Wasn't thinking about or that. :lol: :yeah: :lol:

Queen Petra Fan
Sep 1st, 2012, 08:45 AM
broadening the term coach out in relation to the Kvitty entourage...

Acknowledged that Ivanko did help to get her from where she was to a slam champion but needed to be shown the door as it was clear he could not help her in the next phase of her fitness & movement evolution ...

Just as Novak made adjustments to bringin success with his Fitness trainer I am sure Kvitty camp has done the correct thing on Ivanko...

Huggybear can hang around as museum guide, bag carrier & cook etc plus phone-a-friend-companion but fresh advising/coaching/guiding/technical talent needs to be brought into the kvitty camp before time runs out - she is going to be 23 soon and is no more the 18 yr teenager with a decade ahead of her...

The PR/language coach Katie has been a success - kvitty is now totally in a different league in relation to media/PR handling skills & language ability considering her starting point ...

To maintain the pre-slam status quo is simply untennable considering Kvitty's potential...


Without a doubt Moose, dumping both coaches because of this year's disappointing (although realistically pretty solid) results would be a tragic mistake on Petra's team's part. It would be too much change and could seriously destabilize Petra's mental attitude and, therefore, game. Then, how would you feel about her results? :eek:

I think it's pretty clear Coach HuggyBear is one of the most important and trusted people in Petra's life. And now that it seems that her health has recovered, and she is able to fully dedicate herself to improving her game, it would be silly to switch horses in regards to her main coach. Petra's problems this year were because of bad health and illness, which developed into poor conditioning. It was a domino effect which finally seems to have stopped, thank god. Even with all of this our girl still came within a breath of becoming No. 1!!! That's incredible and we shouldn't forget it. So, I don't think the coaching has been that bad, Petra just wasn't in good enough shape to take advantage of it. Now she is and we are seeing the results.

Let's also keep in mind, Petra's team has finally solved her breathing problems. This is huge! This alone is going to pay huge dividends going into the future.

So now, all she has to do is find the right yearround full time conditioning coach, apply a lit bit more clever future scheduling, and maybe really consider possibly changing her home base to somewhere where she can avoid illness and play outdoors more which would benefit her game. Let's face it, all of the Grand Slams are played outdoors and Petra needs to work on maintaining her high level in windy or hot and humid conditions. Playing in an indoor hall just isn't the same and has been giving her opponents an advantage.

Frankly, I think if things keep coming together Petra is going to finish strong this year and will be heading into 2013 maybe stronger than ever if she and her team continue to make the right moves. Let's hope they do!


:worship: Queen Petra says, "Don't even think about firing my HuggyBear or I'll fire you!!! :worship:

Queen Petra Fan
Sep 1st, 2012, 08:56 AM
Well we both know how long Rodriguez been with Na, so ... :rolleyes:

I love this 'huggybear' nickname though. :lol: Is it your own invention Moose?


Hi Bikez.

Actually, I started using this nickname for Kotyza about a week or two ago because he reminded me of somebody I knew.

My Czech wife has a burly, balding (also amazingly nice and generous) uncle who is called HuggyBear by his much shorter Dutch-Indonesian girlfriend. Uncle Jiri is the original HuggyBear and a great guy to boot.

I hope knowing the source of it doesn't take the shine off the name. For Petra, Kotyza really is her HuggyBear. :lol:

Queen Petra Fan
Sep 1st, 2012, 08:58 AM
Truly great name, cause the man really likes to hug. :lol:

And if anyone is familiar with the original "Huggy Bear" character, from 70's TV show Starsky and Hutch, it makes it even more funny hearing the name. :lol: :eek: :lol:


Now that's a blast from the past! They look pretty different, eh? :lol:

And what about that red and white Grand Torino!!! :worship:

Excelscior
Sep 1st, 2012, 09:46 AM
Without a doubt Moose, dumping both coaches because of this year's disappointing (although realistically pretty solid) results would be a tragic mistake on Petra's team's part. It would be too much change and could seriously destabilize Petra's mental attitude and, therefore, game. Then, how would you feel about her results? :eek:

I think it's pretty clear Coach HuggyBear is one of the most important and trusted people in Petra's life. And now that it seems that her health has recovered, and she is able to fully dedicate herself to improving her game, it would be silly to switch horses in regards to her main coach. Petra's problems this year were because of bad health and illness, which developed into poor conditioning. It was a domino effect which finally seems to have stopped, thank god. Even with all of this our girl still came within a breath of becoming No. 1!!! That's incredible and we shouldn't forget it. So, I don't think the coaching has been that bad, Petra just wasn't in good enough shape to take advantage of it. Now she is and we are seeing the results.

Let's also keep in mind, Petra's team has finally solved her breathing problems. This is huge! This alone is going to pay huge dividends going into the future.

So now, all she has to do is find the right yearround full time conditioning coach, apply a lit bit more clever future scheduling, and maybe really consider possibly changing her home base to somewhere where she can avoid illness and play outdoors more which would benefit her game. Let's face it, all of the Grand Slams are played outdoors and Petra needs to work on maintaining her high level in windy or hot and humid conditions. Playing in an indoor hall just isn't the same and has been giving her opponents an advantage.

Frankly, I think if things keep coming together Petra is going to finish strong this year and will be heading into 2013 maybe stronger than ever if she and her team continue to make the right moves. Let's hope they do!


:worship: Queen Petra says, "Don't even think about firing my HuggyBear or I'll fire you!!! :worship:

You know QPF (yes I'm up :confused: ), I thought about responding to your other post regarding Ivanko, but it's clear here you knew what the deal was compared to there. First morning post "flippancy" I guess? :lol: :shrug: :lol:

I thought about asking the question, "was it Petra's conditioning that cost her to lose to Sharapova and Serena, or was it more her strategy-from Huggy Bear"? :scratch: I would say the latter, and ask why HE wasn't he fired instead (if someone was going to be fired. You know I always advocated adding someone to the team, or as an advisor). But you had already explained all that in detail in THIS post. Kudos.

After saying all that, one or two things needs to happen for Petra. She needs to either play her natural game on court (like in Kotyza-less Montreal), and/or they need to hire a better scheduler, tactician and life coach for Petra. This would be someone who'll make her relish challenges and expectations (and/or follow proper game strategy), instead of being afraid of them-if Petra doesn't reach those conclusions first/soon herself. Like I always said, "Kotyza appears to teach her tennis skills well". Just look at how in those few days off prior to New Haven, they've altered her service motion, thus improving her serve results.

Nonetheless, she's not coached in majors, so still needs a better strategy to play against Masha and Serena. Quite frankly, I think her YEC type play, is what they should be shooting for night in and night out with Petra.

Their strategy in Instanbul against Stosur and Vika, was "not to give them any constant rhythm", so Petra came to the net, drop shotted, volleyed, hit corner loopers, sliced, etc., through out. Now when Petra plays Sharpie or Serena, she's seems less committed to this type of play. Yes, you don't get as many opportunities against Serena and Sharapova, but nonetheless the same logic applies. You gotta mix it up and throw them off balance/rush them at times; like serve and volleying, using the angles, hitting a few loopers, throw in some slices, along with the hard hitting. And of course (and probably most important), "serve well and don't lose your serve"!

The scrubs do this to great effect; sometimes winning against those players at times (though they eventually get figured out and lose, due to their lack of accompanying firepower). But you get the point!?

Roddick used this approach, against the young Tomic last night (serve and volleying, constant slices, net approaching, etc.), and blew him off the court. It was nice to see. But many of the men can do that/see that often times. With the women, it's that much more disconcerting to the opposition, cause they don't see that type of play to often (they're either power baseliners, junk ballers, or aggressive net players-like the Italians). Petra can be all these in one player; and has been at the YEC.

As Vader told Luke in Star Wars Petra "it is your destiny", to play like this!

I see your up to, by the way :lol:.

Good Stuff. :yeah:

Petronius
Sep 1st, 2012, 09:48 AM
Well we both know how long Rodriguez been with Na, so ... :rolleyes:

I love this 'huggybear' nickname though. :lol: Is it your own invention Moose?

And yet there were some GM experts who were already giving him credit for improving her game when she won Cincinatti :lol:

Excelscior
Sep 1st, 2012, 09:57 AM
Now that's a blast from the past! They look pretty different, eh? :lol:

And what about that red and white Grand Torino!!! :worship:

Antonio Fargas!!

Hope he's still around with us?

Yeah, I remember the Gran Torino, though I don't know what HE ACTUALLY DROVE.

Come to think of it, I don't think he did. He just walked the streets (or up to their car) in all his Grand Pimp Daddy Panache, Regalia, strut and splendor. That was enough. :lol:

Haven't seen the repeats on in a while though.

Petronius
Sep 1st, 2012, 10:18 AM
Nonetheless, she's not coached in majors, so still needs a better strategy to play against Masha and Serena. Quite frankly, I think her YEC type play, is what they should be shooting for night in and night out with Petra.

Big point here. Neither peak Serena, nor peak Sharpie actually played at YEC (Sharpie withdrew because of ankle injury). Would Petra have won Istanbul, if these two had participated in peak form?

And coincidentally, these very two players have stopped Petra at grand slams this year.

If Maria beats Petra in the QFs, there will be no doubt both Serena and Maria are now better players (the H2H would be 5-0 this year vs. Petra).

Let's hope that Petra beats both Marion and Maria :cool:

Excelscior
Sep 1st, 2012, 10:57 AM
Big point here. Neither peak Serena, nor peak Sharpie actually played at YEC (Sharpie withdrew because of ankle injury). Would Petra have won Istanbul, if these two had participated in peak form?

And coincidentally, these very two players have stopped Petra at grand slams this year.

If Maria beats Petra in the QFs, there will be no doubt both Serena and Maria are now better players (the H2H would be 5-0 this year vs. Petra).

Let's hope that Petra beats both Marion and Maria :cool:

Good Points.

However, I would like to think so, since Petra had beaten Maria their prior two matches in a row (albeit with a ankle injury from Masha in Tokyo).

I would also think Petra's confidence, skill and play level, would of been too much for Masha's quite ordinary game then. Plus, Petra was just playing at a higher level than Masha last year, and had already beaten her twice, with no losses. So who cares about last year (but I know you're just throwing it out there for levity's sake). :lol:

As far as Serena, she was a non entity, cause she wasn't good enough to qualify last year (unless she just didn't go). Of course, things changed with her this year, especially for the Grass Season. But I would still say "yes", though we really don't know, unless they actually played.

Now keep in mind Petronius (cause it's probably so easy to forget now), that Petra had great success playing two players who normally had given her trouble on hardcourts, Wozniaki and Zvonareva (remember Tokyo) at the YEC. But she overcame them.

If I told you, Petra was going to play Vera Z, compared to a healthy Sharapova there, you would of been much more worried about Petra playing Vera Z, than Sharapova trust me.

So what does that tell you (besides the fact, that Petra appears to learn/over come players that have given her trouble)? Things change year to year; sometimes season to season or even match to match. This one will be answered soon as well.

Your initial question, could of been answered by me stating "has Sharapova played Peak Petra this year"?. And the answer is a resounding no (even if you consider "peak Petra" last year)! But who cares. You can only play the matches and people that are in front on of you. And that's what Petra has to do now.

You'd be surprised how one win, can change peoples collective physics.

Note: We haven't seen Petra's new and improved serve, against a legitimate returner, so it'll be interesting to see how it fares against Marion.

Onward!

Excelscior
Jan 23rd, 2013, 08:59 PM
I dont think it would work. He would need someone who was willing to be almost machine-like in the training, or a veteran who knows exactly what they need to give them the mental edge, sort of like the Na-Rodriguez setup. Murray really wanted that extra last bit of coaching to become a champion and he was willing to push himself to the limit. Cant see how well Kvitova would react to that kind of coaching.

What you're saying maybe true, but maybe not? :shrug:

Here's a story, about a Tennis Channel program on Pete Sampras yesterday, that I commented on 'The Fall Cometh' thread on Petra. The commentator--I was responding to, was a fan, but disappointed with Petra's recent awful form, and possible future. Here's what I said to him/her about the program:

This is all true.

Funny though: I was indirectly watching a Tennis Channel special on Pete Sampras, when he experienced something similar. Note: I'm not comparing Petra to Pete Sampras. But they're similarities that can be drawn.

After Pete won his first major/The US Open, he admitted the following year there--he was "nervous" and didn't want to deal with the pressure as defending champion, and lost.

Needless to say, Jimmy Connors--who beat him, skewered Pete regarding his non-competitive comments and his wilting under the pressure. And for the next two years Pete had (admittingly), so so results; hadn't found himself on the court; didn't know what to make out of his tennis career, while a self described poor practice player at the time.

Guess what!? Eventually Pete changed coaches and found Tim Gullickson--who he clicked with, where he learned to practice better and harder, in addition to focus and refine his game under.

Two years later, after his infamous loss and comments, in defense of his US Open title, and his subsequent struggles after....Pete Sampras overcame his demons (and poor clay season leading up to it), and won Wimbledon. Needless to say: He won it 7/8 years, and picked up a few other Slams along the way.

And the rest was history (including his tenure with Paul Annacone, after Gullickson became sick and eventually died).

Sampras is not the first Grand Slam winner, with great potential to experience this (poor or up and down results, and lack of confidence and focus after their first major), then later mature and dominate. This goes for both sexes. So Hopefully, Petra will be the same. :shrug:


You cold be right. Lendl may not be the coach for Petra. I don't know. But who ever it is; Petra should click with them, so what ever they ask from her, she will do. The first step is to buy into what they're selling/offering (like any good coach needs). Once that happens, then the hard work and tough advice, becomes welcomed and accepted, cause the player sees the common goal, once the coach has the players attention.

We'll see? :eek:

lupojohn
Jan 23rd, 2013, 09:10 PM
As I mentioned in another thread, what about Larry Stefanki?

lupojohn
Jan 23rd, 2013, 09:12 PM
What you're saying maybe true, but maybe not? :shrug:

Here's a story, about a Tennis Channel program on Pete Sampras yesterday, that I commented on 'The Fall Cometh' thread on Petra. The commentator--I was responding to, was a fan, but disappointed with Petra's recent awful form, and possible future. Here's what I said to him/her about the program:



You cold be right. Lendl may not be the coach for Petra. I don't know. But who ever it is; Petra should click with them, so what ever they ask from her, she will do. The first step is to buy into what they're selling/offering (like any good coach needs). Once that happens, then the hard work and tough advice, becomes welcomed and accepted, cause the player sees the common goal, once the coach has the players attention.

We'll see? :eek:

Not to nitpick, but Jimmy didn't beat Pete at the '91 Open. Jimmy beat Patrick, a scrub, another scrub, Krickstein and Haarhuis.

Excelscior
Jan 23rd, 2013, 09:32 PM
Not to nitpick, but Jimmy didn't beat Pete at the '91 Open. Jimmy beat Patrick, a scrub, another scrub, Krickstein and Haarhuis.

OK. No problem. I did mention that I was "indirectly watching it", and I missed and forgot that. :lol:

And you should go over to the "Petra team bashing thread/link".

That one has lots of juicy info on her overall team. You may have missed that. :lol:

Unfortunately, Kotyza's not the biggest problem.

Excelscior
Jan 23rd, 2013, 11:33 PM
Here is the most recent Czech Reprint/Translation AshaPova (hope I spelled it right), courtesy of Google and Czech--Lufa's translation/over sight.

This one deals with the state of Petra and her team, following her loss to Laura Robson.

Google translate is our friend :), did only some necessary corrections


We have to dig out of the mud, says Kvitova coach Kotyza
18th January 2013 12:00
Melbourne (from our correspondent)

- Again. Finish her! Coach David Kotyza shout to tennis player Petra Kvitova in her battle with Robson at the Australian Open. But he saw how troubled she is. "It was clear that she is very unhappy," he said.
When Kvitova flew into the third set to 3:0, the coach believed that everything goes well. "At that moment she looked like renewed. He thought she will destroy Laura, said. "But she hesitated at 3:1, did three DF . Serve had completely gone. From 4-4 she already seemed to be bothering with herself."

What sank her? Worse fitness or poor self-esteem?
Laura looked fresher. But it was more mental freshness. Laura trusted herself, trying to overtake Petra in pressure. She went for the win. Deservedly dragged it to the end.

What was your first thought when Petra suppressed tears on court?
It was visible that she is unhappy. When opponent sees that, gives her confidence. Petya dealt with hers bad tosses, referees statement. Lots of things disturbed her. You could see that her head is not ideally set.

Does affect her disenchantment of the defeats, and the fact that the new method of fitness training does not work?
She went into the match with determination. But when she dumped the service she began to be desperate. This is a picture of how she looks. Experiencing a difficult period and today it did not help.

What will you do next?
We need to look at the program. Petya has played a few matches. We will try to request a free card on the indoor tournament in Paris, which is played around one week before the Fed Cup. We consult with Kristian Bajza (fitness coach) and Michal Safar (psychologist), how to make her again enjoying the game. We need to figure out how to dig out of the mud.

How deep are you in?
Enough. After this match keeps me alive just straw. (Smile)

You take it that your position is in danger?
Every coach goes through some bad times. But this is not yet so long that we have to address staffing issues. Maybe talk about it with Petra, but I think it is soon. Not that I want to cheer myself ...

Do you believe that changes in training show early ?
I believe. I do not know when it will come, but I believe. It is a fact that we have started something, and it would be unwise to make big waves when Petra is down.

Here's the link below:

http://sport.idnes.cz/rozhovor-s-tenisovym-trenerem-kotyzou-fcy-/tenis.aspx?c=A130117_210626_tenis_rou

Note: I think Lufa may have highlighted the bottom part, cause Petra's coach--David Kotyza, took it upon himself to declare that he sees he should stay longer (probably, cause he knows Petra's not the decision maker).

However, most questions or answers aren't bolded in her/his reprint, when you read it. Just an FYI

Note: How the reporter ask the question regarding "The New Method Of Fitness Training", as already an ongoing 'failure'. SMH

lupojohn
Jan 23rd, 2013, 11:35 PM
And you should go over to the "Petra team bashing thread/link".

That one has lots of juicy info on her overall team. You may have missed that. :lol:

Unfortunately, Kotyza's not the biggest problem.

I did. You guys did a great job, but that was so much, I took it in segments and still haven't finished it :laugh:.

Excelscior
Jan 23rd, 2013, 11:40 PM
I did. You guys did a great job, but that was so much, I took it in segments and still haven't finished it :laugh:.

I was so busy and dizzy, going back and forth between my postings and your post--in BOTH areas, I had forgot or didn't realize, that you had already posted over there. :lol:

Yeah, it's a lot. But believe it or not, most of the dialogue, quotes, articles and criticisms, are spread out through various areas of the subforum (with hopefully most links and reprints/copies in News and Articles). Criticism is all over. :lol:

That Petra Team Subforum thread, was just a recent attempt to add stuff. :lol:

Deestruction
Jan 24th, 2013, 01:37 AM
Well since shes turning 23 next month. Shes gonna have to make some tough decisions. Not only with her team but with her career. She needs to dig deep and find her confidence. Right now as i am noticing. Her mental strength is almost as bad as Lisicki and Ivanovic. She needs to step up her game and add more variety into her game. If she doesnt add more variety then shes gonna be even more brainless without any clue of what she needs to do to beat the top players. She needs a new voice. But its gonna be hard because she is as stubborn as Caro. So i dunno. Maybe some miracle will happen. :shrug:

Excelscior
Jan 24th, 2013, 02:34 AM
Well since shes turning 23 next month. Shes gonna have to make some tough decisions. Not only with her team but with her career. She needs to dig deep and find her confidence. Right now as i am noticing. Her mental strength is almost as bad as Lisicki and Ivanovic. She needs to step up her game and add more variety into her game. If she doesnt add more variety then shes gonna be even more brainless without any clue of what she needs to do to beat the top players. She needs a new voice. But its gonna be hard because she is as stubborn as Caro. So i dunno. Maybe some miracle will happen. :shrug:


The irony is: She's got all the variety she's ever going to need (just check 2011 YEC, Linz, Wimby, and 2012 Montreal, New Haven and French Open). She just needs to utilize it more. For some reason she wants to impersonate a ball basher so often, because she's woefully out of form, and has no control over her strokes, instincts and footwork.

An inform Petra is hitting all types of slices, spins, top spins, drop shots, short hops, funky shots, and coming into the net, along with all that power.

Right now, both Petra and her team are a wreck. Agreed!

I see Martina is crying out even louder than the past regarding a potential Petra intervention. However, I don't know how much you can help someone, until/unless they want it themselves. And right now, I'm not sure Petra does. She's in her own world.

She must have some type of comfort zone with the clowns (sorry Petronius), I meant the folks she's surrounded herself with. She doesn't appear to 'want it' at the moment.

We'll see? :confused: If she doesn't make changes on her own soon, it may take her 6mos-3 years before she re-discovers herself again, if ever at all? :oh: The clock is ticking.

Good Luck Petra and Martina.

paulmara
Feb 14th, 2013, 07:29 PM
Spellman_Katie Katie Spellman 2hod
Meet tiny Jack Spellman! Born early on Saturday, Feb 9 and weighing 5lbs 4oz. A true Canadian, born in a blizzard :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDFSAGxCcAA0szz.jpg:large

netphobia
Feb 14th, 2013, 09:41 PM
:awww:

Excelscior
Feb 15th, 2013, 06:25 PM
In honor and in light of Petra's recent Doha Fold-a-roo to Serena today (you know I was going to wait to see if Petra lost, right). :lol: Here's what I said right before the match (that appeared so eminently winnable as Petra was in charge).

I hope Petra sincerely believes in herself today.

I'm not sure how much her team helps though

I remember a couple of years a go (after Petra won Wimbledon and before Serena lost the US Open finals to Stosur, or maybe 2012, Pre Australian, with all the Petra Hype), Koytyza was being interviewed. And during this interview when asked about 'who the best player in tennis is", Kotyza said "I don't care what anyone says, Serena Williams is the best player in Tennis when playing well. No one can beat her", etc.. And he never once mentioned Petra during this exchange. I remember saying to myself, "A lot of people think YOUR player is unbeatable [Kotyza] when playing well, so thanks for the confidence booster David!"

Now mind you, Serena was not only NOT playing well at the time, but Kotyza didn't say anything like, "but my player, when playing her best can certainly contend with Serena/may have a chance, especially if Williams not playing her best; the match is won on the court, not match ups", etc.. Nothing of the sort!

I remember saying to myself "this is the guy that prepares her for matches"?

There's no pressure on Petra. She's just got to go out there and play her game, and clean up all the silly mistakes (is that asking too much) from yesterdays match, now that she has two under her belt. I haven't watched Serena at all.

We'll see?

Good Luck Petra!!

Obviously, Petra didn't, as she had two chances (with a 4-1 lead at one point) to hold and take/keep the acendency after a break, clearly able to win the match, and she coughed up two horrible service games.

Nothings improved (despite what we seen this game; it was just cause she was playing Serena), her coaching, belief and mentality still sucks!!

She acted like she was satisfied with playing Serena a good match, instead of slitting her throat when she had her chances to win the Match.

pov
Feb 15th, 2013, 06:45 PM
Today showed that her coaching and team is not the primary issue. She played great tennis for 1.5 sets. Then her mental strength slipped a little and she started DFing at critical points. That is something coaching can't change. Sure a coach can - and sure her team does - counsel her on how to deal with it but it is on her to implement that. And it is very tough to make that type of shift. Even psychologists have a tough time getting folks to succeed with that sort of change.

Excelscior
Feb 15th, 2013, 06:52 PM
Today showed that her coaching and team is not the primary issue. She played great tennis for 1.5 sets. Then her mental strength slipped a little and she started DFing at critical points. That is something coaching can't change. Sure a coach can - and sure her team does - counsel her on how to deal with it but it is on her to implement that. And it is very tough to make that type of shift. Even psychologists have a tough time getting folks to succeed with that sort of change.

The reason why her coaching (and/or Petra) are still an issue, cause it shows she's not motivated to play match. That's the problem. We always new she would play some good matches here and there or be hot and cold. But she's not always motivated.

All year, she's been playing like crap. Where was this sort of tennis from her (even with all her ups and downs after the second set)??? Is it cause she knew she had to play well today? :scratch:

Petra folding when it counted, is just another matter--regarding her lack of belief in herself or beating Serena today.

There are no moral victories, when the match was so winnable, and you've been having a crappy year.

Nonetheless, let's see what she does in future tournaments, and if she builds off of it.

TennisAddict84
Feb 15th, 2013, 07:05 PM
i think it's all of the above...she needs an entirely new team because she's no longer improving...just staying stagnant when there's so much that can be improved upon...and now to add to her list of problems, her serve is no longer reliable...has become just too erratic at the wrong moments

i also agree that mentally...she doesn't seem to be all there as a top player...just DOES NOT play the big points well at all...we've seen it time and time against Sharapova...and now today...it was visible against Serena again...

i mean, 4-1 in the 3rd set...serena obviously was not playing well...ready to concede at that point..and petra just gifts her the game...after the 1st DF...she should've been more conservative w/ her 1st serve, taken a little bit off, and just get it in...

pov
Feb 15th, 2013, 08:05 PM
The reason why her coaching (and/or Petra) are still an issue, cause it shows she's not motivated to play match. That's the problem. We always new she would play some good matches here and there or be hot and cold. But she's not always motivated.


We've switched have we? :lol: Remember when I was being bashed for questioning Kvitova's motivation. :)

Anyway - a coaching team cannot provide motivation. That has to come from herself. Even with a sports psychologist, one has to be motivated to do what they advise. Take the WS - IMO the reason Serena outdid Venus is in large part because she an uncommonly intense drive to win. Apart from her serve there is no part of her game that is tons' better than Venus. But her psyche is a whole different thing.

bruce goose
Feb 15th, 2013, 09:02 PM
i think it's all of the above...she needs an entirely new team because she's no longer improving...just staying stagnant when there's so much that can be improved upon...and now to add to her list of problems, her serve is no longer reliable...has become just too erratic at the wrong moments

i also agree that mentally...she doesn't seem to be all there as a top player...just DOES NOT play the big points well at all...we've seen it time and time against Sharapova...and now today...it was visible against Serena again...

i mean, 4-1 in the 3rd set...serena obviously was not playing well...ready to concede at that point..and petra just gifts her the game...after the 1st DF...she should've been more conservative w/ her 1st serve, taken a little bit off, and just get it in...We're lacking one co-signer for our letter to Navratilova;does your post above signify that you would like your name added to the list??

'P.o.v.' has things PARTLY correct again;motivation ultimately must come from within.Her error is in claiming that coaches and others are powerless to give motivational boosts...or that it's almost impossible to change.I'll agree that it's not the MAJORITY of undermotivated who become more determined,but it DOES happen much more than very rarely.A prime example that comes to mind is MLB pitcher Curt Schilling who used to have lazy work habits before being pulled aside--literally grabbed by his shirt collar--by ace Roger Clemens.Schilling cites that moment as a turning point in his stellar career.This does not prove,in ANY way,that someone could do that with Petra...but it's far more than a ridiculous longshot.

Excelscior
Feb 15th, 2013, 09:40 PM
We're lacking one co-signer for our letter to Navratilova;does your post above signify that you would like your name added to the list??

'P.o.v.' has things PARTLY correct again;motivation ultimately must come from within.Her error is in claiming that coaches and others are powerless to give motivational boosts...or that it's almost impossible to change.I'll agree that it's not the MAJORITY of undermotivated who become more determined,but it DOES happen much more than very rarely.A prime example that comes to mind is MLB pitcher Curt Schilling who used to have lazy work habits before being pulled aside--literally grabbed by his shirt collar--by ace Roger Clemens.Schilling cites that moment as a turning point in his stellar career.This does not prove,in ANY way,that someone could do that with Petra...but it's far more than a ridiculous longshot.

Good Points Bruce.

There have been many great players, who've noted that new coaching helped their careers, or them find Greatness. That's not uncommon.

Pete Sampras was the one, I've mentioned most recently.

He said after he won his first major/the US Open, " I was lost, lazy, was afraid defending my title, and didn't know what to make out of my tennis career".

Sampras said (this was all on a Tennis Channel program, profiling his career), once he found Tim Gullickson, his work habits, reckless aspects of his game, and belief/consistency changed. You know, the proverbial light bulb clicked in him.

The example--you gave of Curt Shilling and Roger Clemens, is more frequent than we realize. A lot of great players, credit a coach in their life, for believing in them/giving them confidence, work habits or honing/working on their skill.

This is not to say, a good/great coach, can make a mediocre player great. Of course not. That's another situation. However, a good/great coach, can make a very talented player, nonperforming athlete,who's just missing a few things/aspects, a potential great player or winner. Of course it's up to the individual--receiving the good suggestions/coaching, to respond/take the advice as well. It's a two way street. But once again, that's where coaching comes in. Some people can reach other people, click, and/or get their message across better.

And we know Petra already has that ability, cause we've seen it.

She just needs a mental connection with a good coach, and/or advisor, who can also teach her how to win tennis matches--on this level, and believe in herself again.

PS: Coach Glen Mills, with Usain Bolt is another one of many that comes to mind. Bolt (who was a very decorated, high achiever as a Junior) credits most of his success to Mills, as he was an underachiever his first 3-4 years after he turned pro, and admitted he was lazy and partied too much. Bolt's ability, and hard work took care of the rest.

And I think Psychologist only work so well. A great coach is also a great psychologist. And those coaches can also talk the language of your sport, and make it more real, simple and palatable to listen to and act on. Plus, you can't bullshit them (cause they know the sport/been there, unlike a shrink), while they're your peers. Big difference.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. My attack on Kotyza, wasn't for this match (though a good coach, should teach you how not to get nervous, stick to your game plan, and should have fixed/noticed the flaw in Petra's serve you hope). I was just pointing out that the tennis and movement was in her. Petra just doesn't show up and play well most time (or give a damn). And it wasn't always like that.

This has to do with preparation (mentally, physically, skill wise) me thinks!

bruce goose
Feb 16th, 2013, 12:40 AM
Very detailed,thoughtful analysis,Ex,but 'TennisFan' just disappeared right after posting and refused to give his consent(even though he seems to agree with everything that we've been touching on).Maybe it would make a difference if YOU asked him(or QPF)instead of me...since you're from the same country(sigh...).

One area where I'll disagree with you is FC;even if you're correct in saying that the tennis benefit is only small(which is a subjective observation),there's no evidence that FC hurts Petra in any way,and she seems to get a huge thrill from playing for CR

Excelscior
Feb 16th, 2013, 12:54 AM
Very detailed,thoughtful analysis,Ex,but 'TennisFan' just disappeared right after posting and refused to give his consent(even though he seems to agree with everything that we've been touching on).Maybe it would make a difference if YOU asked him(or QPF)instead of me...since you're from the same country(sigh...).

One area where I'll disagree with you is FC;even if you're correct in saying that the tennis benefit is only small(which is a subjective observation),there's no evidence that FC hurts Petra in any way,and she seems to get a huge thrill from playing for CR

Well, hopefully he'll respond. :lol:

I have someone else in mind though (I hope). :lol:

Well, I don't think the most recent Fed Cup hurt her. I just didn't think it helped her as much as Shifty wanted to make it out to be.

Petra didn't play great during those two matches. But she fought. So I'm sure it may have helped a little. But obviously, not enough. :lol:

Unfortunately, those victories didn't give her enough belief to hold her serves during the third set today, with out Serena placing much pressure on her to be broken.

Nonetheless, let's hope this gives her some confidence, and some game to perform well during the next few hardcourt tournaments?

What would/could Petra do, with a more persuasive, professional, dedicated, incisive, smarter team? :eek:

Well, at least she gave some entertaining, Petra like tennis for a bit. :lol:

TennisAddict84
Feb 16th, 2013, 03:41 AM
We're lacking one co-signer for our letter to Navratilova;does your post above signify that you would like your name added to the list??

'P.o.v.' has things PARTLY correct again;motivation ultimately must come from within.Her error is in claiming that coaches and others are powerless to give motivational boosts...or that it's almost impossible to change.I'll agree that it's not the MAJORITY of undermotivated who become more determined,but it DOES happen much more than very rarely.A prime example that comes to mind is MLB pitcher Curt Schilling who used to have lazy work habits before being pulled aside--literally grabbed by his shirt collar--by ace Roger Clemens.Schilling cites that moment as a turning point in his stellar career.This does not prove,in ANY way,that someone could do that with Petra...but it's far more than a ridiculous longshot.

Most definitely! If not Navratilova, then someone of her caliber that can bring a new view to Petra and her game.

You know...the more I think about today's match, the angrier and annoyed I get w/ Petra that she COULD NOT close out serena after being 4-1 up in the 3rd!!!! Seriously, how many chances do you need to have?!?!

Ugh...i'm really convinced at this point that Petra does not have a champion's mentality...as someone else had mentioned...i think she got up for this match because she was the underdog...

I just don't think Petra really has that hunger to be the best...i think she's content w/ her one slam and maybe winning another 1 or 2...i mean to be the best week in and week out requires not only discipline, but the kind of mental toughness where you refuse to concede a single point to your opponent...and Petra severely lacks that by giving away too many free points...

I mean...HOPEFULLY, despite the tweet that she posted, Petra says to herself, "Damnit...I was in full control of that match and lost it on my racquet...my serve needs work ASAP...and i'm tired of having crappy footwork/movement where i'm constantly off balance"

But realistically, she prob finds the loss acceptable...sigh...

bruce goose
Feb 16th, 2013, 03:58 AM
Most definitely! If not Navratilova, then someone of her caliber that can bring a new view to Petra and her game.

You know...the more I think about today's match, the angrier and annoyed I get w/ Petra that she COULD NOT close out serena after being 4-1 up in the 3rd!!!! Seriously, how many chances do you need to have?!?!

Ugh...i'm really convinced at this point that Petra does not have a champion's mentality...as someone else had mentioned...i think she got up for this match because she was the underdog...

I just don't think Petra really has that hunger to be the best...i think she's content w/ her one slam and maybe winning another 1 or 2...i mean to be the best week in and week out requires not only discipline, but the kind of mental toughness where you refuse to concede a single point to your opponent...and Petra severely lacks that by giving away too many free points...

I mean...HOPEFULLY, despite the tweet that she posted, Petra says to herself, "Damnit...I was in full control of that match and lost it on my racquet...my serve needs work ASAP...and i'm tired of having crappy footwork/movement where i'm constantly off balance"

But realistically, she prob finds the loss acceptable...sigh...Thank you for replying:hatoff:.A word of caution to you: Though there is a reasonable number of cases where previously-undermotivated athletes found their way,what's far LESS common is seeing a mentally-weak player become strong(and the opposite,strong-to-weak,is almost non-existent).I suppose that it depends partly on HOW weak that weaker athlete really is(it's not easy to measure such things precisely,obviously).However,there are some very notable exceptions to the rule.A recent example is SB-winning QB Joe Flacco...who USED to antagonize me by dragging my favorite team down with his astonishing choking.

Perhaps a more cheerful example is Navratilova herself,who would frequently implode in the '70s when facing Evert or another elite player...and then became one of the ultimate competitors in women's sports.I'm not suggesting that easygoing Petra will have such an amazing turnaround;heck,we don't even have any degree of assurance that the proposed meeting will ever come off...or that Petra would automatically heed the advice.Nevertheless,Petra has already won top-level titles even withOUT a legend's advice...so maybe she won't need to make such drastic changes to become a consistent,elite player:cool:...let's hope not,at least