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KleineBiere
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:13 PM
When and who was that top 20 win?

This Year in Montreal. Pennetta retired ;)

Jimmie48
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:14 PM
Scheepers is chocking again...two DFs this game.

She failed to close the deal in the 1st and the same seems to be happening again, lucky for Caro.

TennisFan66
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:15 PM
Caro & her dad are writing a "How NOT to Develop a Top Player" book.

They gotta try to find a way to make money. It won't be via prize money and endorsement deals any longer .. and that 'Stella by Adidas' label won't be hers for much longer, imho.

Adidas cannot be pleased with an exclusive Stella deal for a player everyone is more or less just laughing at now :sad:

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:17 PM
Your avatar made me laugh so hard just now... :lol:

0-30... jesus.

I wasn't completely sure who was in that avatar. Now I think I have my answer.

Jimmie48
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:17 PM
Adidas cannot be pleased with an exclusive Stella deal for a player everyone is more or less just laughing at now :sad:

There hasn't been any news on her extension either, right?

Two things keep her afloat right now: Her celebrity status thanks to being a WAG and that Adidas is pretty much out of options among the top players, I have never seen a Nike player switch away from them and Nike has all the interesting girls covered right now.

marineblue
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:18 PM
Well, she always had some haters when she was at her best. :shrug:
But I agree that her sponsors are probably not amused. Maybe that's why she's added Moscow.

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:19 PM
5-3, she can still win this but her serve is so vulnerable...

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:21 PM
Caroline holds at love. I repeat, Caroline holds at love.

TennisFan66
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:21 PM
There hasn't been any news on her extension either, right?

Nothing. Before W'don talk was, she would be offered a deal similar to Murray's. £3 mill base + bonus.

Jimmie48
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:21 PM
She holds to love. That means either a) she served great (unlikely) or b) Scheepers is folding like a cheap suit again.

11 DFs already for Scheepers, her last chance to serve this out. Luckily, I'm quite sure she'll blow this..

Jorn
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:24 PM
Take a bp Caro! Come On!

Jimmie48
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:25 PM
5-5

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:25 PM
It would be extremely cruel if she lost this set after coming back from being down 5-1.

Jimmie48
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:29 PM
Nothing. Before W'don talk was, she would be offered a deal similar to Murray's. £3 mill base + bonus.

Well, I guess you can't expect Murray money if you play like Tipsarevic.

Jorn
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:36 PM
1-5 -> 6-5. :) But she wasted a mp?

Protoss
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:37 PM
Stop choking Caro. :(

Jimmie48
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:38 PM
Tie break.

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:42 PM
Grr, Caroline surrenders the mini-break.

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:42 PM
But quickly gets it back!

Jorn
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:42 PM
Stop choking Caro. :(
From 1-5 -> 6-5 i won't call that choking... ;)

Jimmie48
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:43 PM
From 1-5 -> 6-5 i won't call that choking... ;)

Come on, Scheepers threw that away. She made up to two DFs per service game!

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:43 PM
4-3 Caroline serving

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:44 PM
4-4 back on serve

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:45 PM
5-4 Caroline leading

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:46 PM
6-4 Caroline

Protoss
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:46 PM
Take the match point Caro.

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:47 PM
6-5

Protoss
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:47 PM
Scheepers holds for 5-6 in the 2nd set tiebreak, 2nd match point gone (1st in the tiebreak). :( Please take the match point Caro.

Jorn
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:47 PM
wastes 2 mps... :o Come On Caro!

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:47 PM
6-6

Protoss
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:48 PM
Caro broken for 6-6 in the 2nd set tiebreak, 3 match points gone (2nd in the tiebreak). :rolleyes: Hold Caro.

CWTennis
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:48 PM
:rolleyes:

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:48 PM
set point for Scheepers

Jimmie48
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:49 PM
facing SP...

Protoss
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:49 PM
Oh geez. Caro broken for 6-7 in the 2nd set tiebreak. :rolleyes: Save the set point Caro.

Jimmie48
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:50 PM
f*ck me...third set... :facepalm:

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:50 PM
Silly Caroline, you really should have won that set. On to the third.

TennisFan66
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:52 PM
Ah well. What can one say, which hasn't already been said ..

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:52 PM
It will be interesting to see how her serve holds up in this decisive set.

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:52 PM
Ah well. What can one say, which hasn't already been said ..

Hundalasiliah!

Protoss
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:53 PM
Disgusted. :( Scheepers wins the 2nd set tiebreak 8-6 from 0-2 to 1-2 to 1-3 to 2-3 to 2-4 to 4-4 to 4-6 to 6-6. :( Win it in 3 Caro. The match is 2 hours 9 minutes long.

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:59 PM
After that tiebreak I would have loved to see Piotr calmly walk onto the court, slap Caroline upside her head and then calmly walk off of the court.

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 12:59 PM
Caroline breaks and then is immediately broken.

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:03 PM
Three breaks to start the third set.

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:08 PM
3-1 Caroline holds.

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:12 PM
From 0-40 to deuce (Scheepers serving).

Protoss
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:13 PM
Please take the freaking break point Caro.

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:14 PM
4-1 it wasn't as easy as it could have been but Caroline breaks.

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:19 PM
5-1

Jorn
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:25 PM
*5-2 Kom Så Caro!

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:28 PM
She does it. At least the third set went fairly quickly.

Jorn
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:28 PM
6-2 :)

But playing like this she's gonna lose in next rd, vs Su-Wie H. :o

Fantasy Hero
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:31 PM
at least she somehow closed it...

Protoss
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:31 PM
Finally. Yay!!!!!! Caro holds for 6-2 3rd set at 40-15 on back to back 2nd serves. :) Good job Caro. The match was 2 hours 47 minutes long.

Protoss
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:36 PM
From 1-5 -> 6-5 i won't call that choking... ;)
I was referring to the 1st match point not being converted and then Caro failing twice to take advantage of 2nd serves at 40-40 which would have given her a 2nd & 3rd match point.

TennisFan66
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:50 PM
So she won it in 3 ... I don't want to, but I cannot help but feeling a little 'whatever' .. #badfan

Jimmie48
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:55 PM
So she won it in 3 ... I don't want to, but I cannot help but feeling a little 'whatever' .. #badfan

You and me both. I feel a little bad about it but I just can't get excited about these little things anymore... there's nothing great about needing three hours to finish off a R1 match, not if you have been #1 for 67 weeks.

I just apply other standards to Caroline than I would to, let's say, Sori... she has proven that she can do much, much better so I don't think it's unfair to ask more from her.

CWTennis
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:57 PM
Chinese completely ignores Caro, I think that's for beating Li Na in Tokyo :lol:

Jimmie48
Oct 1st, 2012, 01:59 PM
Maybe they just don't like golf ;)

Protoss
Oct 1st, 2012, 02:01 PM
I was thinking and that 2nd set was similar to the 1st set against Pervak in 2009. Caro was down 5-1 1st set but came back to go up a minibreak in the 1st set tiebreak. She then proceeded to lose that tiebreak but win the 2nd set 6-2 and lead the 3rd set 3-0 before Pervak retired.

That's the only other time I can think of offhand for Caro to be behind so much in a set and come back to take the lead only to throw away the set.

goldenlox
Oct 1st, 2012, 02:16 PM
I didnt see it, but hopefully she'll be on a tv court next round.
Anyway, its a win at a Tier I. Caro's lost a lot of 1st matches at Tier I's, so I'll take it

Jimmie48
Oct 1st, 2012, 02:18 PM
I didnt see it, but hopefully she'll be on a tv court next round.


She isn't. I have a feeling that this has something do with with Hsieh being from Taiwan though..

TennisFan66
Oct 1st, 2012, 02:36 PM
She isn't. I have a feeling that this has something do with with Hsieh being from Taiwan though..

Ah, yes of course. We cannot blame this one on Caroline being irrelevant. Taiwan trumps everything. If you have any doubt, try asking a Norwegian salmon farmer, if the Chinese holds grudges. :tape:

goldenlox
Oct 1st, 2012, 02:38 PM
I wouldnt get too down about this past year.
Caro has made a lot of money and it looks like she's going to marry a guy who will earn a ton.

If she wants to do a Jankovic with her career, its her career. She can do what she wants.
If she wants to make a serious effort to get back, thats hard work with no guarantee she will ever get back to an elite player

manixdk
Oct 1st, 2012, 02:46 PM
Caro 3rd match on Court 1 again tomorrow. Remember she's seeded tenth, and there are other Chinese players still around.

KleineBiere
Oct 1st, 2012, 08:10 PM
Main Draw Match Stats 2012

http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/wozniackihsiehrzgo9hmqv8.png (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)

Su-Wei Hsieh: 1-6 vs. Top 20

terjw
Oct 2nd, 2012, 04:49 AM
I saw Su-Wei Hsieh a couple of weeeks ago againt Laura Robson and in a way she reminded me of Caro. Great defence. But what she did was slice everything back and when Laura went on the attack - scampered around and got everything back.#

The other things - very safe and effective with minimal effort and power at putting away anything. Minimal effort at serving. I don't think she even jumped when she served.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 09:36 AM
Makarova/Vesnina win doubles on C1, Caro next.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 09:37 AM
Good Luck Caro! :)

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 09:52 AM
Hsieh will serve first...


I just hope Caro don't underextimates her... :scared:

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:00 AM
40-40* Caro had a bp...

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:00 AM
2nd Hsieh DF gives Caro 2nd BP.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:02 AM
Deuce four.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:04 AM
0-1.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:05 AM
Geez. Hsieh holds for 1-0 1st set from 0-30 2nd serve down despite 2 double faults and facing 2 break points. :( Hold Caro.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:06 AM
Four 1st serves and love hold, 1-1.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:06 AM
1-1*


We can hope Hsieh struggels on serve and Caro holds easy!

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:07 AM
Hsieh DF #3, 0-30 (same as first game).

DownInAHole
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:09 AM
1-1*


We can hope Hsieh struggels on serve and Caro holds easy!

We can but based on the evidence it seems likely that Caroline will offer up some break points eventually.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:09 AM
Caro breaks to 30, 2-1.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:14 AM
Caro's 1st serve is disappearing. :(

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:16 AM
Caro fails GP and Hsieh breaks, 2-2.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:17 AM
Sigh. Here we go again. :(

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:20 AM
Caro breaks to 30, 3-2.

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:24 AM
Caro fails GP and Hsieh breaks, 2-2.

Guten Morgen, alle zusammen ... :)

Just came in to see the score and 4-2* Caroline .. lovely, I thought. Smooooooth, solid sailing .. but then I saw the comments ..

Service break gallore ..

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:24 AM
Caro holds to love despite only landing one 1st serve, 4-2. Caro's 1st serve has dropped to 50% but she has won 7/8.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:26 AM
*4-3... Come On Caro!

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:26 AM
Hsieh holds to 15, her first easy hold: 4-3.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:29 AM
Geez. Caro 0-30 on her serve. :( Hold Caro.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:29 AM
Caro 0-40 after a 2nd serve. :rolleyes: Save the break points Caro.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:30 AM
4-4*

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:31 AM
Sigh. Here we go again. :(

Indeed we do .. Hsieh breaks .. 4-4

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:31 AM
Kerber wins 2 & 0 and is ready to face the winner of Caro's match. Caro broken to 15, 4-4. She has lost 8 of the last 10 points.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:31 AM
I saw on TV Hsieh is a good returner, she plays a bit like Hingis's early days......

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:33 AM
Hsieh holds to 30, 4-5. Caro has only won 4 of the last 16 points.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:37 AM
Caro 30-30 on her serve from 30-0 to 30-15 (2nd serve). :( Hold Caro.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:37 AM
Caro 40-30 on her serve from 30-30. :) Take the game point Caro.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:38 AM
Caro holds to 30, 5-5.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:38 AM
5-5*

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:39 AM
Whew. Caro holds for 5-5 1st set at 40-30 from 30-0 to 30-15 (2nd serve) to 30-30 on a 2nd serve. :) Break Caro.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:39 AM
Hsieh is not some goat server Caro. :rolleyes:

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:40 AM
Love hold, 5-6. Hsieh has held without problems the last 3 serve games.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:43 AM
First Caro DF, 0-15.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:43 AM
df... Hold On Caro!

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:46 AM
Caro holds to 30, 6-6. Both players have won 37 points, even match.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:46 AM
atleast a tb now.... Come On Caro!

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:48 AM
3-0, Hsieh serves.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:50 AM
Double minibreak, 4-1.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:52 AM
5-2.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:53 AM
5-4, Caro serving.

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:54 AM
From 4-1 and 5-2 ahead ... now 5-5 .. *sighs* ...

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:54 AM
Four points lost in a row, 5-6.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:54 AM
4-2 - 5-6* :o

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:54 AM
Geez. Caro broken for 5-6 in the 1st set tiebreak on a 2nd serve. :( Save the set point Caro.

Jimmie48
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:56 AM
Just got out of a meeting to see she lost the 1st set :(

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:56 AM
Hsieh takes first set 7-6(5) in 59 minutes.
Even if Caro manages to turn this match around, I have very little faith in her chances to beat Kerber next round.

Edit: I think Caro may have had better chances of winning that TB if she had been down 2-5 (instead of up 5-2). When close to losing a set/match, she often plays well. Now she was close to winning and probably got too passive.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:59 AM
Disgusted. :( Hsieh wins the 1st set tiebreak 7-5 from 0-3 to 1-3 to 1-4 (double minibreak) to 2-4 (single break) to 2-5. :( Win it in 3 Caro. The match is 59 minutes long.

Jimmie48
Oct 2nd, 2012, 10:59 AM
Wait, what? She was up 4-1 in the tb??

DownInAHole
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:00 AM
I shouldn't be surprised but I am. How can she perform so poorly in crucial tiebreaks? It really is inconceivable that she is the same player that was ranked number one less than a year ago.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:01 AM
Broken :( she will lose it now... :sad:

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:01 AM
Stop being a scared little girl Caro. :rolleyes:

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:02 AM
Hsieh breaks to 30, 0-1.

DownInAHole
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:02 AM
Wait, what? She was up 4-1 in the tb??

She was up in the tiebreak yesterday too, 4-2 I think. Far too often now she just completely crumbles at key stretches. It's completely inexplicable. Her mental toughness was once her biggest strength but over the last sixteen months it has disappeared.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:03 AM
But match should have been played on Lotus court, the 2 there now plays a error fest :o

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:04 AM
Wait, what? She was up 4-1 in the tb??
Yes, she was up a double minibreak at 4-1 in the 1st set tiebreak.

Caro also led 4-2 1st set and probably should won that set 6-1/6-2 if she'd actually taken her chances. :(

Jimmie48
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:05 AM
0-2

I can't help but feel that this tournament is another new low...barely scraping by Scheepers and losing to Hsieh? Jesus...

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:05 AM
Hsieh holds to 15, 0-2.

Jimmie48
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:08 AM
From 40-15 to deuce...of course...

DownInAHole
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:08 AM
0-2

I can't help but feel that this tournament is another new low...barely scraping by Scheepers and losing to Hsieh? Jesus...

That's probably the most worrying thing. We keep thinking that she has hit bottom and that things can only get better but there always seems to be a new low. She had best work her ass off during the offseason, if she starts 2013 the way she ended 2012 she may well drop out of the top twenty fairly quickly.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:08 AM
40-15 to 40-40.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:08 AM
Hsieh holds to 15, 0-2.
One of the most baffling things is how Caro became so useless on Hsieh's serve after getting break points in Hsieh's 1st 3 service games. Hsieh doesn't have some strong serve yet she's held 3 of her last 4 games to 15 and the other to 30 after 1st being at 15. :(

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:10 AM
4th GP gone.
And 5th.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:11 AM
What happened to Caro's good play from Seoul? Is this tournament too big a stage for that?

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:13 AM
Double break for Hsieh. Leading 3-0 now. Lovely .. Just lovely.

DownInAHole
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:13 AM
One of the most baffling things is how Caro became so useless on Hsieh's serve after getting break points in Hsieh's 1st 3 service games. Hsieh doesn't have some strong serve yet she's held 3 of her last 4 games to 15 and the other to 30 after 1st being at 15. :(

Stop being a scared little girl Caro. :rolleyes:

I think that you answered your own question.

Tough to say without being able to watch the match but based on past performance I am guessing that Caroline is reverting to her ultra passive style and not taking the initiative.

Jimmie48
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:13 AM
She blows four GPs and Hsieh breaks her with her first ever chance. Seriously, this is Challenger tournament type of play here, no one would ever believe that she once was a dominant #1.

0-3

Scary, just scary.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:14 AM
Caro broken after 5 GPs, 0-3. This match looks close to lost. After the long match yesterday and only a short rest since Tokyo, it's hard to imagine Caro having the stamina to win this match.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:14 AM
Oh geez. Caro broken for 0-3 2nd set after being up 30-0 and having 5 game points. :rolleyes: Break Caro.

DownInAHole
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:14 AM
Double break for Hsieh. Leading 3-0 now. Lovely .. Just lovely.

Hsieh was just too good today. The great thing about tennis is that there is always another tournament next week.:oh:

Jimmie48
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:14 AM
What happened to Caro's good play from Seoul? Is this tournament too big a stage for that?

Yes, looks like it. Even the fourth-biggest non-telivised court at a Mandatory seems to scare the crap out of her nowadays.

I've never seen a player mentally crumble this way. There have always been headcases but coming from where she has been...it's absolutely baffling.

JadeFox
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:15 AM
Okay I'm mad. Those wasted opportunities in the first set is costing her this match. :(

poulao
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:15 AM
Caroline, this does not look good :(

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:16 AM
Hsieh was just too good today. The great thing about tennis is that there is always another tournament next week.:oh:
Do you want a bad rep? :(

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:16 AM
0-2

I can't help but feel that this tournament is another new low...barely scraping by Scheepers and losing to Hsieh? Jesus...

There are so many lows, it's difficult to pick.

Safarova in Doho. Of course Ivanovic in I/W, RG R3 .. Wimbledon R1, USO R1 against 'someone' .. Beijing R2 .. They are all good nominations for the 'Caroline Wozniacki Low of the Year' Award ..

DownInAHole
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:17 AM
Now that she has qualified by winning an international level title I would like to know if she is planning to play the "junior" YEC, it would be great if she was asked about that in a press conference.

Jimmie48
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:17 AM
RG and Wimbledon were at least competitive matches against respectable opponents. But this is just...awful and pathetic.

DownInAHole
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:18 AM
Do you want a bad rep? :(

Come on, you know that is what she will say after the match. The only thing I forgot was the bit about hitting the practice courts.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:18 AM
Two GPs survived.
And 3.

Jimmie48
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:19 AM
Do you want a bad rep? :(

The way I see it, sarcasm is the only healthy way to deal with this.

DownInAHole
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:20 AM
Yes, looks like it. Even the fourth-biggest non-telivised court at a Mandatory seems to scare the crap out of her nowadays.

I've never seen a player mentally crumble this way. There have always been headcases but coming from where she has been...it's absolutely baffling.

Ivanovic?

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:20 AM
Caro breaks, 1-3. A small ray of hope?

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:21 AM
Come on, you know that is what she will say after the match. The only thing I forgot was the bit about hitting the practice courts.
I thought you were saying that not imitating/predicting what Caro would say. Sorry.

CWTennis
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:22 AM
Can this awful season end asap! :o

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:22 AM
Gets one of the breaks back ... Odds she'll now just lose her own service game? ... Anyhoo, being a mandatory, these points (lack of) will be with her for a full year. It's difficult to rise in the ranking, when you're carrying a lot of dead weight.

DownInAHole
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:23 AM
The way I see it, sarcasm is the only healthy way to deal with this.

It's been going on for so long it's just hard to care about these losses. I remember when she lost the finals last year in Doha and Stuttgart I was absolutely gutted, now...I just expect her to lose. There are no easy opponents any more. Any time she steps on the court there is a good chance she will lose. If you can't laugh at it what is the alternative?

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:24 AM
I knew Hsieh was good playing now after seen her 2 matches where she won in China... But don't she lose to Kookie last week?

Jimmie48
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:24 AM
The most depressing thing is that even if she somehow wins this (which is unlikely), that means she'll get completely slaughtered by Kerber tomorrow who won her match 0 and 2.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:25 AM
2-3* not lost yet.....

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:27 AM
I knew Hsieh was good playing now after seen her 2 matches where she won in China... But don't she lose to Kookie last week?
Yes, she lost to Kookie last week.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:28 AM
The most depressing thing is that even if she somehow wins this (which is unlikely), that means she'll get completely slaughtered by Kerber tomorrow who won her match 0 and 2.
2 bps... Should Caro win today i think she'll play better against a TOP tenner...

DownInAHole
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:29 AM
Huh, she breaks on her first opportunity. That is encouraging.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:29 AM
*3-3...

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:31 AM
Levels the score at 3-3 .. but now for the hold of own serve (again) ...

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:34 AM
Caro saves a bp! Hold On!

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:35 AM
2 bps... Should Caro win today i think she'll play better against a TOP tenner...
That mentality is not a good one for Caro to have in general given her difficulties making it to top 10 players. :(

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:36 AM
2nd BP survived.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:38 AM
4-3* 4 games in a row!

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:38 AM
GP - BP - GP - BP - GP .. 4-3* .. skin, teeth.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:39 AM
Caro holds with difficulty, 4-3. Fourth game in a row. I wish we could know if Caro has upped her game or it's just Hsieh making errors?
Both players have won 74 points.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:40 AM
And look at that Hsieh back in an easy position on her now that Caro's leading in the set. :(

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:47 AM
bp saved! Hold On Caro!

DownInAHole
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:48 AM
Tough hold but a hold. If she can force a third set I like her chances.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:48 AM
Hsieh holds to 30, 4-4.
Caro holds from 30-40 down, 5-4. A break now would be a good idea.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:50 AM
Caro holds for 5-4 2nd set after saving a break point at 30-40. :) Break for the set Caro.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:52 AM
30-30 2 p more Caro!

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:52 AM
30-40... 5-5...

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:54 AM
DF #3 Caro, 15-15.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:56 AM
Caro holds to 30, 6-5.
Both players have won 87 points.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 11:58 AM
Caro holds for 6-5 2nd set at 40-30 from 40-15 on a 2nd serve. :) Break for the set Caro.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:00 PM
30-40, Sp.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:01 PM
sp... Take it Caro! :cheer:

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:01 PM
Hsieh 30-40 on her serve from 30-30 after a 2nd serve. :) Take the set point Caro.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:01 PM
Sigh. Set point gone. :( Break Caro.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:02 PM
Geez. Ad Hsieh. :( Save the game point Caro.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:03 PM
Game point saved. :) Ad Caro. :) Please take the set point Caro.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:03 PM
Geez. 2nd set point gone. :( Break Caro.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:04 PM
2nd SP gone.

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:06 PM
I counted 2 set points ... but missed and into another tie breaker we go.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:07 PM
Sigh. Hsieh holds for 6-6 2nd set after saving 2 set points. :( Please win the 2nd set tiebreak.

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:08 PM
Double mini break up in tie breaker. 3-0 and now serving twice, but given she lost from 4-1 and 5-2 in the last one, probably isn't so important between those two.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:08 PM
3-0, same as first set (except serve order is reversed, double minibreak now).

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:08 PM
Caro broken for 3-1 in the 2nd set tiebreak on a 2nd serve. :( Hold Caro.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:09 PM
Caro loses both serves, 3-2.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:09 PM
Sigh. Caro broken for 3-2 in the 2nd set tiebreak on another 2nd serve. :( Break Caro.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:10 PM
Caro breaks for 4-2 in the 2nd set tiebreak on a 2nd serve. :) Break Caro.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:10 PM
4-2. Changeover.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:11 PM
Caro breaks for 5-2 in the 2nd set tiebreak. :) Now hold Caro.

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:11 PM
5-2 and two serves again ..

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:12 PM
Geez. Caro broken for 5-3 in the 2nd set tiebreak. :( Hold Caro.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:12 PM
Double minibreak, 5-2. And 5-3. Only one point has been won on serve so far this TB (Caro to 1-0)!

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:12 PM
Caro holds for 6-3 in the 2nd set tiebreak. :) Please take the set point Caro.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:13 PM
Caro wins 2nd set 7-6(3). Match has lasted 2H18M so far!

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:14 PM
and we get another set .. I don't know if to laugh or cry ..

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:15 PM
7-6 :)

JadeFox
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:15 PM
Caro wins 2nd set 7-6(3). Match has lasted 2H17M so far!

Two hours and 17 minutes. That's almost the length of the Avengers movie. :lol:

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:16 PM
and we get another set .. I don't know if to laugh or cry ..

Try both, just to be on the safe side! ;)

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:16 PM
Kerber is IN YEC, so maybe she'll be nice tomorrow, can Caro win the 3. set now...

marineblue
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:18 PM
Caro somehow likes these long-distance matches. Hope she doesn't run out of steem in the third.

marineblue
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:18 PM
Two hours and 17 minutes. That's almost the length of the Avengers movie. :lol:

:lol:

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:18 PM
Whew. Caro wins the 2nd set tiebreak 7-3 from 3-0 to 3-2 to 5-2 to 5-3 on a 2nd serve. :) Stay focused Caro. The match is 2 hours 18 minutes long.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:18 PM
Two hours and 18 minutes. That's almost the length of the Avengers movie. :lol:

Caro is showing the two wannabes on Lotus Court what a REAL marathon match is!

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:19 PM
Did Hsieh have a GP for 4-0? I cannot remember ..

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:21 PM
Did Hsieh have a GP for 4-0? I cannot remember ..

She had 3, actually! :rolleyes:

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:24 PM
The match has resumed after about an 8 minute delay.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:26 PM
Caro breaks from deuce, 1-0.

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:30 PM
Breaks and consolidates .. 2-0* .. well well

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:30 PM
Caro lands five 1st serves and holds to 15, 2-0.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:32 PM
*3-0...

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:34 PM
Caro breaks to 15, 3-0.
Caro, if you've turned the match around thanks to offensive play, PLEASE don't think you've already won the match and become passive now!

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:36 PM
1st ace Caro, 40-30.

NB: Goerges beats Stosur 7-6, 4-6, 7-5, much thanks to 14 SS DFs.

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:38 PM
She had 3, actually! :rolleyes:

Thanks. And we avoided a repeat with switched roles .. Caro 4-0 up ..

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:38 PM
4-0...


Julia G. won and there may be some hope for YEC still and looong way from... ;)

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:38 PM
Caro holds from deuce, 4-0.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:39 PM
DF #8 Hsieh, 5-0.

JadeFox
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:43 PM
Close it out Caro!

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:45 PM
Bagel ... the break between 2nd and 3rd, was that a MTO for Hsieh? Didn't appear to offer any resistance at all in the 3rd.

CWTennis
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:47 PM
That was fast, was Hsieh injured in the 3rd set?

I am sure Caro's match against Kerber will be a lot shorter :o

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:47 PM
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Caro holds for 6-0 3rd set at love. :) Great job Caro. :) The match was 2 hours 49 minutes long.

Jimmie48
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:48 PM
Well, a win is a win.

I'm really scared of her getting a total beatdown tomorrow though, from Kerber of all people...barf.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:49 PM
Caro won 6-7(5), 7-6(3), 6-0 in 2H49M. Hsieh won only 8 points in set 3! Apparently Caro hasn't lost her ability to outrun most opponents when entering the third hour.

Hsieh takes first set 7-6(5) in 59 minutes.
Even if Caro manages to turn this match around, I have very little faith in her chances to beat Kerber next round.


That still stands. Even with Caro's superb stamina, I doubt she can beat someone as solid as Kerber. Especially when Kerber has played only one short match here in Beijing while Caro has spend 5 hours on court winning yesterday/today.

marineblue
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:53 PM
It seems that recently the matches have this scenario:
Wakes up too late in the first...closes out the second so-so...gets mad at herself in the third and finally plays well to close out quickly.

TennisFan66
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:57 PM
It seems that recently the matches have this scenario:
Wakes up too late in the first...closes out the second so-so...gets mad at herself in the third and finally plays well to close out quickly.

Apart from matches with goes like this :

Loses 1st set on back of sloppy play and lack of concentration.

Continues to play in this fashion but given a chance to level score at 4-4 in 2nd with a smash ... :tape:

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 12:59 PM
I believe this is the 1st match in which Caro has come from a set and a double break down. :)

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 01:15 PM
Caro's not on the schedule for tomorrow according to the official Android Atp/Wta Live app. :)

AlanP
Oct 2nd, 2012, 01:18 PM
A gues an ugly win is better than a loss....
Does anyone know if Caro is trying to get a wildcard in Japan next week?

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 01:23 PM
Caro's not on the schedule for tomorrow according to the official Android Atp/Wta Live app. :)

Ok, that improves Caro's chances a bit. She's only 40-60 underdog now in my eyes.

Jorn
Oct 2nd, 2012, 01:26 PM
A gues an ugly win is better than a loss....
Does anyone know if Caro is trying to get a wildcard in Japan next week?
No, she can't play in more MM's (Int. Series)

JadeFox
Oct 2nd, 2012, 01:29 PM
Caro's not on the schedule for tomorrow according to the official Android Atp/Wta Live app. :)

Hope it stays that way. She can use the rest.

Protoss
Oct 2nd, 2012, 01:56 PM
A gues an ugly win is better than a loss....
Does anyone know if Caro is trying to get a wildcard in Japan next week?
Welcome to the forum. :)

Yah, an ugly win's better than a loss. Caro's gonna have to do a lot of grinding til she finds her game again.

No, Caro can't play any more international tournaments. She's scheduled to play Moscow and Sofia to finish up the season.

goldenlox
Oct 2nd, 2012, 03:06 PM
It seems that recently the matches have this scenario:
Wakes up too late in the first...closes out the second so-so...gets mad at herself in the third and finally plays well to close out quickly.

A lot of these players just dont have stamina. Thats why the matches with Aga & Kerber mean more. Those players can last 3 hours also, so its more about the mental than physical this next match

manixdk
Oct 2nd, 2012, 03:19 PM
A lot of these players just dont have stamina. Thats why the matches with Aga & Kerber mean more. Those players can last 3 hours also, so its more about the mental than physical this next match

Kerber is not as fit as everyone seems to think. But Caro will have to be Korea Caro.

Caro's serving against Hsieh was not very good, and, recently, as her serve goes, so goes Caro. When she got it going in the 3rd set, it was bagel city.

Hoergren
Oct 2nd, 2012, 05:25 PM
I don't care how she won - the important thing is that she won. But her fighting spirit is back. Let's cheer her up with a Danish skaal

http://www.cnctar.hunbay.com/Szalai_Gyorgy/Smiley_Beer.jpg

DownInAHole
Oct 2nd, 2012, 05:36 PM
I don't care how she won - the important thing is that she won. But her fighting spirit is back. Let's cheer her up with a Danish skaal

http://www.cnctar.hunbay.com/Szalai_Gyorgy/Smiley_Beer.jpg

Well, yes and no. It is great that she won, none of us are unhappy about that, but she's not putting herself in a great position to win as she goes deeper. She has spent a lot of energy in the first two rounds, how much is she going to have left against Kerber and (potentially) Sharapova? In the early rounds it was once fairly common for Caroline to win very comfortably not letting her opponent win more than a few games the whole match. Now she struggles in the early rounds which makes it harder for her the deeper she goes.

C. W. Fields
Oct 2nd, 2012, 05:51 PM
Judging by who will be playing tomorrow, the WTA matches Thursday will be Caro vs. Kerber, Li vs. Peng, Vika vs. Vesnina and Sharapova/Sori vs. Makarova/Hercog. The all-Chinese affair will clearly be the main match but I'd say Caro's match is the second most interesting - the other two matches have only one big name in them - so Caro should have a good shot at playing on CC.

goldenlox
Oct 2nd, 2012, 06:07 PM
Well, yes and no. It is great that she won, none of us are unhappy about that, but she's not putting herself in a great position to win as she goes deeper. She has spent a lot of energy in the first two rounds, how much is she going to have left against Kerber and (potentially) Sharapova? In the early rounds it was once fairly common for Caroline to win very comfortably not letting her opponent win more than a few games the whole match. Now she struggles in the early rounds which makes it harder for her the deeper she goes.Important thing is that she's playing a lot of matches. Won 9 of 10 recently.
This has to be her mental focus for 2013: Play hard, be mentally committed each match
I think this is the best situation since Miami, and its more important she work hard than play great. That will come with matches and wins and confidence

manixdk
Oct 2nd, 2012, 06:40 PM
Important thing is that she's playing a lot of matches. Won 9 of 10 recently.
This has to be her mental focus for 2013: Play hard, be mentally committed each match
I think this is the best situation since Miami, and its more important she work hard than play great. That will come with matches and wins and confidence

Amen to that. She needs matches to figure out what works and what doesn't. Like she obviously started "feeling" her serve in the 3rd set today. Some matches you search around trying to make things click. Sometimes it takes a whole match, sometimes it there from the start. The more confidence she has, the more she stops over thinking. Having a couple of matches where being a counter attacker works, you file it mentally into your "use again" box.

She can generate pace on her forehand, but it's like she'd rather let the other player do it. She's more comfortable that way.

She has a lot of different shots she hits in practice like the sitting forehand Aga hits. But it's like they're not in her normal toolbox. that's why it would be so much better if her ranking was lower and she could play more internationals against players she knows she can beat, and use matches to concentrate on using one/two shots she hasn't used in match play before.

I'm rambling. Later.

marineblue
Oct 2nd, 2012, 08:54 PM
Nice rambling.:) I totally agree about figuring out what really does work and what doesn't. It seems to me that her team did not really think about that when they decided to implement changes to her game what lead to not building on her strengths and making the weaknesses even worse.

Protoss
Oct 3rd, 2012, 09:13 AM
Amen to that. She needs matches to figure out what works and what doesn't. Like she obviously started "feeling" her serve in the 3rd set today. Some matches you search around trying to make things click. Sometimes it takes a whole match, sometimes it there from the start. The more confidence she has, the more she stops over thinking. Having a couple of matches where being a counter attacker works, you file it mentally into your "use again" box.

She can generate pace on her forehand, but it's like she'd rather let the other player do it. She's more comfortable that way.

She has a lot of different shots she hits in practice like the sitting forehand Aga hits. But it's like they're not in her normal toolbox. that's why it would be so much better if her ranking was lower and she could play more internationals against players she knows she can beat, and use matches to concentrate on using one/two shots she hasn't used in match play before.

I'm rambling. Later.
Caro was almost certainly just spinning her 1st serve in during the 3rd set given that she missed only one 1st serve. That's not something in general that I'd like to see much of.

In premier or greater tournaments you typically play a few lower ranked players before playing someone in the top 15/top 20. So why does Caro need more internationals to experiment?

For that matter it seems to me that Caro doesn't really experiment against lower ranked players in premiers or internationals. :shrug: She doesn't throw in a number of drop shots, slices, or other things of that nature.

DownInAHole
Oct 3rd, 2012, 09:26 AM
Caro was almost certainly just spinning her 1st serve in during the 3rd set given that she missed only 1st serve. That's not something in general that I'd like to see much of.

In premier or greater tournaments you typically play a few lower ranked players before playing someone in the top 15/top 20. So why does Caro need more internationals to experiment?

For that matter it seems to me that Caro doesn't really experiment against lower ranked players in premiers or internationals. :shrug: She doesn't throw in a number of drop shots, slices, or other things of that nature.

For me that is one of the most disappointing things about the last twelve-sixteen months. She hasn't been playing well and has been struggling but it doesn't appear to me that she is adding anything new to her game or that she is trying anything different. It is just a lesser version of her old game with many more errors. She could have been trying to add to her game for over a year now, and maybe she has been doing that in practice, but in match play she is not doing much, if anything, different. As far as adding to and improving her game it looks like she has wasted over a year.

That is why I was happy to see her try that drop shot when she was match point down against Agnieszka in Tokyo. Okay, she missed it and lost the match but I am glad she tried something different especially when the alternative, more often than not, would have been her hitting a soft shot right to Agnieszka.

goldenlox
Oct 3rd, 2012, 11:20 AM
For me that is one of the most disappointing things about the last twelve-sixteen months. She hasn't been playing well and has been struggling but it doesn't appear to me that she is adding anything new to her game or that she is trying anything different. It is just a lesser version of her old game with many more errors. She could have been trying to add to her game for over a year now, and maybe she has been doing that in practice, but in match play she is not doing much, if anything, different. As far as adding to and improving her game it looks like she has wasted over a year.

That is why I was happy to see her try that drop shot when she was match point down against Agnieszka in Tokyo. Okay, she missed it and lost the match but I am glad she tried something different especially when the alternative, more often than not, would have been her hitting a soft shot right to Agnieszka.
She also missed a drop shot against Sharapova in Miami that put her down a double break in the 3rd set. That also was a crucial point to throw away.

Its hard to say if she will ever be winning Tier I's again. Its takes a lot of focus and a lot of good tennis. And she's spent this whole 12 months doing neither.

Lets see how this Kerber match goes. She's played some of her worst tennis all year against Kerber. I thought her play the last 5 games in Copenhagen was an insane style of play that she will never win playing. Then she was embarrassed in Stuttgart.
So beating Kerber, who won the most matches all year and is probably not as good now, as in the spring, this will be a step in the right direction. Sharapova would be another step