Gwyneth Paltrow defends her right to use the 'N' Word

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2154585/Gwyneth-Paltrow-racial-controversy-N-word-tweet-Jay-Z-Kanye-West-gig.html


By Colette Fahy and Nadia Mendoza

PUBLISHED: 21:19 GMT, 4 June 2012 | UPDATED: 12:02 GMT, 5 June 2012

Gwyneth Paltrow has been criticised for tweeting a rather offensive word - even though she was referencing a song title and didn't pen the quote herself.

The Shallow Hal actress busied herself on the social networking site last Friday, using the N-word while cheering on her famous friends Jay-Z and Kanye West during their co-headline show in Paris.

Dancing with the superstars during a guest-appearance onstage at their Watch The Throne tour, the mother-of-two then tweeted a photograph with the caption 'N***as in paris for real'.


However, she has since received a barrage of abuse as people express their shock over the word.

Gwyneth, who was wearing thigh-skimming shorts for the occasion, then defended herself, saying: 'Hold up. It's the title of the song!'


Her husband Chris Martin was headlining the Emirates Stadium in London with Coldplay as she supported their close friend Jay-Z in the French capital.

The 39-year-old arrived in a chauffeur driven car at the Palais Omnisports de Paris-Bercy.

Gwyneth, who also wore a black blazer, left her long blonde hair loose and sported dark eye make-up as she made her way into the venue.


Paltrow attended the gig with Jay-Z’s wife Beyonce and her Destiny’s Child bandmate Kelly Rowland.

Former X Factor judge Kelly sported a dark beige top and seemed to be wearing one of the many wigs she is famous for as her hair appeared longer than usual.

Kelly was in high spirits, waving to gathered fans and photographers and was clearly looking forward to a girlie night out.

The tweet

@gwynethpaltrow
Ni**as in paris for real @mrteriusnash (the dream) tyty, beehigh http://say.ly/ySc3rTP
3:56 PM - 1 Jun 12 via WhoSay · Embed this Tweet
http://twitter.com/GwynethPaltrow/status/208693551163379712

The defense

Hold up. It's the title of the song! RT@lovebscott Okay or Not? @GwynethPaltrow Tweets The N-Word: http://www.buzzlov3.com/okay-or-not-gw … http://say.ly/IIs3rY4
3:45 PM - 3 Jun 12 via WhoSay · Embed this Tweet
http://twitter.com/GwynethPaltrow/status/209415620217937920

Err what do u mean by CRACKA? Gwen was referencing a song title!! The real question is why do people feel the need to use that term??!!?? Let's focus on that ignorant crap!

Trust the DM to refer to her as "The Shallow Hal actress" :sobbing:

Err what do u mean by CRACKA? Gwen was referencing a song title!! The real question is why do people feel the need to use that term??!!?? Let's focus on that ignorant crap!

I was referencing a song title.

Gwyneth on the other hand was saying the people in this photo were 'n***as in Paris' for REAL

http://www.usmagazine.com/uploads/assets/article_photos/gwyneth-paltrow-4672.jpg

Yo yo yo Gwyneth is a straight up wigga don't you even trip.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOQ3zJ-x-LBzlExjPgHBxFKkHQ5Z-Rb65TKbhAG-T-t7hvW2nf-OMHgyv6cA

Yo yo yo Gwyneth is a straight up wigga don't you even trip.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOQ3zJ-x-LBzlExjPgHBxFKkHQ5Z-Rb65TKbhAG-T-t7hvW2nf-OMHgyv6cA

http://www.unionversity.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/tumblr_lxaxeySoHE1qew6w7o1_500.gif

I understand both your frustration and attempt at irony, but two wrongs don't make a right. Calling Paltrow a "cracka" isn't exactly a smooth move.

As I've said before, the bottom line is that every ethnic group reserves the right to call itself by slurs as a way of defusing them and rendering them harmless.

White people should never use the "n-word." And as a white southerner, I can call myself a redneck or a cracker all I want, but I would suggest others avoid use of this term.

Especially since she's a DamnYank anyway. ;)

I understand both your frustration and attempt at irony, but two wrongs don't make a right. Calling Paltrow a "cracka" isn't exactly a smooth move.

As I've said before, the bottom line is that every ethnic group reserves the right to call itself by slurs as a way of defusing them and rendering them harmless.

White people should never use the "n-word." And as a white southerner, I can call myself a redneck or a cracker all I want, but I would suggest others avoid use of this term.

Especially since she's a DamnYank anyway. ;)

:mad:

Anyway since you said it so nicely I'll edit the title.

Oh and I disagree about the right to call oneself by this particular word. It just leads to messy situations like this.

Its all so stupid and ignorant. That is just a pet peeve with me. If I meet folks and they use that word in fun or as a term of endearment. I tell them I dont like it. I also explain why as in hopes of turning an ignorant fool into a smarter human being.
Being a person of color and using the N word is IGNORANT!!! :sad::help:

Its all so stupid and ignorant. That is just a pet peeve with me. If I meet folks and they use that word in fun or as a term of endearment. I tell them I dont like it. I also explain why as in hopes of turning an ignorant fool into a smarter human being.
Being a person of color and using the N word is IGNORANT!!! :sad::help:
You need to speak on that Kanye/Jay Z song that has sparked all of this!

Trust the DM to refer to her as "The Shallow Hal actress" :sobbing:

Funnily enough i watched that movie like yesterday. So offensively stupid but funny.

Seriously. She was quoting the motherfucking song title.
Hopefully, she isn't walking up to random black people in the streets of Paris saying the n-word, but I wouldn't put that past Goopy

i personally think this is fucking ridiculous

and if YOU have an issue with what she said, it's YOUR problem

she meant nothing by it, that's clear

heck she's a fan

Can you people read? She doesn't simply name the song she says "n***as in paris for real" as a caption of a photo of three black guys. She's saying that those are niggas in paris. :help:

Unless you think it's ok to refer to people as niggas in general then I don't see how you wouldn't have a problem with it :confused:

i personally think this is fucking ridiculous

and if YOU have an issue with what she said, it's YOUR problem

she meant nothing by it, that's clear

heck she's a fan

I'm more concerned with the writers going in on Kelly's wig collection:

Former X Factor judge Kelly [Rowland] sported a dark beige top and seemed to be wearing one of the many wigs she is famous for as her hair appeared longer than usual.Damn, what the hell did she do to them? :happy:

:mad:

Anyway since you said it so nicely I'll edit the title.

Oh and I disagree about the right to call oneself by this particular word. It just leads to messy situations like this.

Thank you.

I think I stumbled over my tongue, btw. I actually agree with you that all people should start to move beyond this habit (not just blacks).

However, it seems that blacks are the one group that other people are the ones who always get called out on the "Well, they call themselves that, why can't I?" thing.

The point I was trying to make was that all ethnic groups do that, and most of them get away with that. Would Paltrow have dared twit such a thing about, say, two Jewish friends? I doubt it.

I'm not one to ever defend the use of the n-word but she was quoting their song and captioning people who are some of her really good friends. I really don't see the issue here at all.

Don't understand her tweets regardless :lol:

gwyneth is indeed a 90ies gangsta rap fan, her favourite group was NWA. and you know what those initials stands for.
though she censored the n-word here:

u6Oej7K469I

It's the name of the song. I don't blame her at all.

Rappers sing the word over and over and obviously non-black people sing the chorus whenever they play the song in the homes.

Anyway, shame I really like Gwyneth.

Thank you.

I think I stumbled over my tongue, btw. I actually agree with you that all people should start to move beyond this habit (not just blacks).

However, it seems that blacks are the one group that other people are the ones who always get called out on the "Well, they call themselves that, why can't I?" thing.

The point I was trying to make was that all ethnic groups do that, and most of them get away with that. Would Paltrow have dared twit such a thing about, say, two Jewish friends? I doubt it.

I think another question is whether a non-Jewish or male friend of Gwyneth Paltrow could get away with tweeting "[insert Jewish slur]" or "bitch/hoe" as a caption of a picture of her without getting any kind of backlash?

Who knows? All I know is the lines are getting more and more blurred. Apparently now it's ok for Gwyneth to use that word to describe people because they're her friends and because there's a song with that word which is confusing and feels totally surreal for me... :confused:

It's the name of the song. I don't blame her at all.

Rappers sing the word over and over and obviously non-black people sing the chorus whenever they play the song in the homes.

Anyway, shame I really like Gwyneth.

Really? I find her so boring.

Rappers sing the word over and over and obviously non-black people sing the chorus whenever they play the song in the homes.

this. you can't write songs using certain words, wanting the songs to be hits and than expect the people (of all races) who sing along to those songs to self-censor the lyrics.

this. you can't write songs using certain words, wanting the songs to be hits and than expect the people (of all races) who sing along to those songs to self-censor the lyrics.

Though I detest the use of all forms of the word, this is a really good point.

this. you can't write songs using certain words, wanting the songs to be hits and than expect the people (of all races) who sing along to those songs to self-censor the lyrics.

FYI Jay Z and Kanye West don't represent every black person on the planet. A lot of black people take offense to any person using that word regardless of race.

Much ado about nothing :shrug:

That's quite trivial, really.

I think another question is whether a non-Jewish or male friend of Gwyneth Paltrow could get away with tweeting "[insert Jewish slur]" or "bitch/hoe" as a caption of a picture of her without getting any kind of backlash?

Who knows? All I know is the lines are getting more and more blurred. Apparently now it's ok for Gwyneth to use that word to describe people because they're her friends and because there's a song with that word which is confusing and feels totally surreal for me... :confused:

I agree.

FYI Jay Z and Kanye West don't represent every black person on the planet. A lot of black people take offense to any person using that word regardless of race.

I don't know. I am sort of old school about this thing called manners. There are words I use in situations as a writer and artist that I do not use in real life. For example, I have written a short story where a character used the word "fag." However, I don't call my brother, or my brother-in-law, or any of my gay friends that because it's just rude, even if I did it as a joke and even if they call each other that sometimes (which actually they don't).

If Jay-Z uses a word because he thinks it best communicates an idea as an artist, it seems to me anybody with an IQ equal to a bucket of spit should understand that's what he's doing, not that he's giving everyone on earth the right to use that word indiscriminately. Any more than if, as I said earlier, I as a white southern writer used the term "cracker" to make a point about something. It wouldn't mean "Hey, everybody, feel free to stereotype me and call me names."

What's next? I get in my car and shoot up and inner city neighborhood with an AK-47 because I heard some gangsta rapper talk about doing that? "Hey, he said it's what they do, so my posse and I figured it must be okay."

Riiight.

Can you people read? She doesn't simply name the song she says "n***as in paris for real" as a caption of a photo of three black guys. She's saying that those are niggas in paris. :help:

Unless you think it's ok to refer to people as niggas in general then I don't see how you wouldn't have a problem with it :confused:

so do you think she's racist? because i don't

of course it's not ok to refer to people as niggas 'in general' but she was referencing a song that she is a fan of, by artists she is a fan of... so she clearly did not mean anything bad by it. so whether or not she should or shouldn't have said it, she obviously didn't have any hate behind it (in my opinion anyway).

i dunno, i think it's a bit silly in my opinion

The whole situation is messy as people do like to sing along to songs and there aren't many songs that we have to edit as we sing.

As for Gwyneth, well for all we know, she was repeating something she had heard one of them say. For all we know, they refer to each other in that way in her presence. We don't know what goes on in their friendship.

However, twitter isn't just a thing between friends - it's public. She should have come up with something else to say in support of their concert. She should probably have given a fuller explanation of her tweet or just apologised for it.

I agree that people should just stop using these slurs. I have never and would never refer to myself as a 'Paddy' or a 'Mick.' These would seem to be very innocuous terms to some people (but they aren't to me because I've heard them said in extremely demeaning and offensive manners) and so if I were to use them, I couldn't really blame another person for repeating them. Obviously the N word is a special case because everybody knows it's wrong but n*gga would seems to me to be somewhat milder than n*gger and when these terms are so common in songs and colloquial speech, it just blurs the issue horribly.

Maybe she meant that they were in Paris for real, and not that they were "ni**as" for real.

btw anyone hear that blind item from a few months ago where she and chris martin along with Jay Z and Beyonce were at a restaurant, and they were just fucking with the waiter all night and then barely tipped him. She's really not the classiest lady in the world.

And how she blogs about getting up, making the bed and then making breakfast, before driving her children to school? Bitch, you don't even live at home 60% of the year.

:weirdo: This is all really silly

I think it would be better if everyone moved away from using such words. That way it's much easier to know where everyone stands.

Guys, she didn't just repeat the title of the song :lol: . She said "Niggas in Paris for real" referring to her black friends. I'm not scandalized by her comments but let's not act like this wasn't what she meant...

I think it would be better if everyone moved away from using such words. That way it's much easier to know where everyone stands.

Agreed but that would never happen...There really is no reason to use it in everyday conversation.

this. you can't write songs using certain words, wanting the songs to be hits and than expect the people (of all races) who sing along to those songs to self-censor the lyrics.

according to some people you can

I self-censor myself ALL the time on songs, even when I'm by myself. But that is beside the point.

Using that word, even when it is the song of a title is inappropriate. That's all. If it is going to offend a group of people, why do it?

And it's even worse that she put "for real"....that is just disrespectful, even if it isn't intentional. Someone needs to tell her about herself and her actions so she doesn't repeat this mistake. :o

shouldn't u be mad at ur people for making songs like that?
Shut up.

I don't think it's a big deal because she clearly isn't using the word as a slur. One time some driver called me a "fucking Spic" and I didn't know how upset I should be as I'm not even Hispanic. :o

I don't think it's a big deal because she clearly isn't using the word as a slur. One time some driver called me a "fucking Spic" and I didn't know how upset I should be as I'm not even Hispanic. :o
So, if you aren't intending to be offensive you can use the word at your will?! Uhhhhh, no.

So, if you aren't intending to be offensive you can use the word at your will?! Uhhhhh, no.

Black rappers (and black folk in general) do all the time and it's not an issue. I don't like double standards.

Black rappers (and black folk in general) do all the time and it's not an issue. I don't like double standards.
Please go refer to what the moderator wrote on the first page.

I'm more concerned with the writers going in on Kelly's wig collection:

Damn, what the hell did she do to them? :happy:

Kiiiiiiii :sobbing:

If its really a big deal then everyone should avoid buying any music with these words in the title. Obviously, these artists are not getting the right message

Black rappers (and black folk in general) do all the time and it's not an issue. I don't like double standards.

Things said by different types of people will lead to different reactions. That's not going to change anytime soon.

Just curious, why don't you like double standards?

She's a Jew, so she should know better. Just like most of you are gay, and should know better as well.
But alas, the world is what it is, not what we want it to be. :lol:

If its really a big deal then everyone should avoid buying any music with these words in the title. Obviously, these artists are not getting the right message

I wouldn't buy music that included that word in the title if the artist was non-black. I'm not bothered at all with black people saying "nigga." :shrug:

Please go refer to what the moderator wrote on the first page.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with him. I would never call anyone nigga, fag, girl, etc. because I am not comfortable being called these things. However I don't understand why it's OK to be called these things by people who are of your same identity but not OK if they're not even if it's meant in the same positive way as if they were..

Things said by different types of people will lead to different reactions. That's not going to change anytime soon.

Just curious, why don't you like double standards?

Because if it's wrong, it should be wrong for everyone, no?

Because if it's wrong, it should be wrong for everyone, no?

Yes. If something is wrong, then it should be wrong for everyone. I don't think most black people would say that saying "nigga" is wrong. They would agree that a non-black person saying "nigga" is wrong.

No, what's wrong for one person isn't necessarily wrong for another. The world does not work in this black and white, cut and dry way. That's really obvious.

Yes. If something is wrong, then it should be wrong for everyone. I don't think most black people would say that saying "nigga" is wrong. They would agree that a non-black person saying "nigga" is wrong.

I think it's wrong. :shrug: That's why I don't use the word.

I think it's wrong. :shrug: That's why I don't use the word.
Do you use curse words?

Ultimately a position where one group is allowed to use the word freely while another group, even in an innocent context, is rounded on for using it, is not sustainable.

The best way is for everyone to abandon the word, to say from this point on no one should use the word.

I'm not convinced by the arguement that by appropriating such a word it robs it of its power. Rather I think it muddies the waters and undermines the simple clarity of the message that to use that word is wrong.

Do you use curse words?

Because they have such a context? :unsure:

Because they have such a context? :unsure:
You can't answer the question?

I don't know. I am sort of old school about this thing called manners. There are words I use in situations as a writer and artist that I do not use in real life. For example, I have written a short story where a character used the word "fag." However, I don't call my brother, or my brother-in-law, or any of my gay friends that because it's just rude, even if I did it as a joke and even if they call each other that sometimes (which actually they don't).

If Jay-Z uses a word because he thinks it best communicates an idea as an artist, it seems to me anybody with an IQ equal to a bucket of spit should understand that's what he's doing, not that he's giving everyone on earth the right to use that word indiscriminately. Any more than if, as I said earlier, I as a white southern writer used the term "cracker" to make a point about something. It wouldn't mean "Hey, everybody, feel free to stereotype me and call me names."

What's next? I get in my car and shoot up and inner city neighborhood with an AK-47 because I heard some gangsta rapper talk about doing that? "Hey, he said it's what they do, so my posse and I figured it must be okay."

Riiight.

ITA.
so do you think she's racist? because i don't

of course it's not ok to refer to people as niggas 'in general' but she was referencing a song that she is a fan of, by artists she is a fan of... so she clearly did not mean anything bad by it. so whether or not she should or shouldn't have said it, she obviously didn't have any hate behind it (in my opinion anyway).

i dunno, i think it's a bit silly in my opinion

I really don't care if she's racist.

Like I said to miffedmax, I'm just shocked at how the lines are getting more and more blurred all the time. Years ago it was inappropriate to use this word no matter the context, but nowadays you hear black, white, asian kids on the street calling one another "My nigga!". And now celebrities like GP are spewing it like it has no context or history. Years ago it was inappropriate to use this word no matter the context, so I'm a little perplexed honestly.

The whole thing reminds me of a conversation I had last year with someone (white) that wanted to use a normally derogatory word to describe black people in a favorable way. I objected but this person was like, no I mean it as a compliment therefore it isn't a bad word. I'm like you can't take away the offensiveness of a word just by adding a disclaimer about how you didn't mean it in a nasty way. :wavey: Try calling your mom bitch and tell her that you meant it in a nice way. But he didn't agree and he and I went our separate ways.

According to some the N word and others have lost its meaning, but have they really? I'm not about to get into that 'lest we forget' stuff, but more importantly should it?

FYI Jay Z and Kanye West don't represent every black person on the planet. A lot of black people take offense to any person using that word regardless of race.

what does this have to do with anything i said? :confused: of course i realize that a lot of black (and non-black) people take offense at the use of this word. but then you have to first and foremost criticize the songs that use these lyrics.

It's one reason I don't much listen to mainstream hip-hop music, I don't like saying these words (they don't mean much to me anyway, but there are equivalents I guess in other languages) but I also don't like not singing along, plus to be honest I didn't grow up in a bad neighbourhood or know about many of the topics widely discussed in (again, at least, mainstream) hip hop music so it's hard for me to relate, since it seems to me it's a very lyrically based music genre. I can appreciate a lot of stuff, but sometimes the language impedes me from liking it as much as I could. My own issue, I know, but whatever.

In regards to Gwyneth Paltrow, she can say whatever she want, what she does and the millions she makes has no effect on my life. If she did refer to them as that word then that's her problem and hopefully she realizes it for the next time.

Using the word is ignorant regardless of your skin color. It is ignorant for JZ to have a song like that and ignorant for Gwyneth to tweet it.
It is also IDIOTIC for people to try to call out Gwyneth as a racist. Jesus please grow some brain cells.

Using the word is ignorant regardless of your skin color. It is ignorant for JZ to have a song like that and ignorant for Gwyneth to tweet it.
It is also IDIOTIC for people to try to call out Gwyneth as a racist. Jesus please grow some brain cells.
Who called her racist?! I don't think anyone here called her that, but her using the word is inappropriate. I also don't think it's appropriate for people who aren't black to say when/how the word should be used. Yeah, it may not seem fair, but life isn't fair, the world isn't fair. If you haven't personally felt the power of that word used against you, then I don't think you should be using just because "black" people use it, too.

A lot of you seem to be using Tu Quoque to justify your position. Interesting.

Who called her racist?! I don't think anyone here called her that, but her using the word is inappropriate. I also don't think it's appropriate for people who aren't black to say when/how the word should be used. Yeah, it may not seem fair, but life isn't fair, the world isn't fair. If you haven't personally felt the power of that word used against you, then I don't think you should be using just because "black" people use it, too.

A lot of you seem to be using Tu Quoque to justify your position. Interesting.

I'm black.

I'm black.
Okay? I didn't say you weren't. lol. That was a general statement.

The Dream and Russell Simmons Defend Gwyneth Paltrow After She Tweets The ‘N-Word’

Wed, Jun 06 2012 by Necole Bitchie

http://necolebitchie.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/gwyneth_paltrow-jay-z1.jpg (http://necolebitchie.com/2012/06/06/the-dream-and-russell-simmons-defend-gwyneth-paltrow-after-she-tweets-the-n-word/gwyneth_paltrow-jay-z1/)

Jay-z and Kanye West’s ‘Watch The Throne’ track, ‘Niggas In Paris’ is a worldwide hit that has managed to transcend past the cultural barrier of the African American community, so is it really a surprise when there is a stadium full of non-black fans in Paris that are singing ‘N-gga’ when the song comes on? Earlier this week, Gwyneth Paltrow, who is good friends with Beyonce and Jay-z, was torn a new one on twitter when she tweeted, ‘Ni**as in paris for real @mrteriusnash (the dream) tyty, beehigh‘ during the ‘Watch The Throne’ Concert where Jay and Kanye performed the track 11 times in a row. After a few folks checked her about it on twitter, she responded, ‘Hold Up, It’s the title of the song‘.

Days later, The Dream found himself defending Gwyneth on twitter while stating that the African American community is beginning to give the word too much power:[unedited] Yall still on that s–t! Yall Give “N—a To Much power” somewhere the actual racist People are Laughing there asses off, so much energy. Let that Word hold power over me but yet use it as Power. Those same slaves Great,Great grands are Wiser now and Free! I’m not Saying don’t forget but be logical and use common sense. If it meant the Same as it Did then WE wouldn’t use it, that would make us ignorant We USE IT because Evidently it doesn’t mean the same if u really give a s–t u stop using it. Sure Attack her you know she’s not going to do anything, you know in your heart she didn’t mean it in anyway. The world is just full of Bull s–tters who act like they give a s–t haven’t did one righteous act in there lives. Its a Hot Topic because people aint got s–t To Do! Period. Say what u want. No one called Trayvon N—a before he shot him it was an action. Racism is an Action! What! WE GIVE THE WORD TO MUCH POWER! Any way N—az! What’s GOOD
Russell also came to Gwyneth’s defense in a blog posted on Global Grind: (http://globalgrind.com/music/russell-simmons-defends-gwyneth-paltrow-niggas-in-paris-blog) In the case of “N*ggas in Paris,” it is clear that these two poets are celebrating the fact that they now travel the world and are literally ballin’ in Paris … it started as a badge of honor, something to be proud of, something to poke their chests out at. Because for them, when they were kids, Paris was a million miles away and now it’s a private jet ride. The idea of being in Paris with a movie star, whether she’s black or white, is incredible!

There is something truly inspiring about black culture and black music, hip-hop culture and hip-hop music. No matter what color skin you might have, there is an overriding good effect that this music has on you. It is contagious. It was this explosive expression that spread out of the inner cities of America into the walkmans of kids like Gwyneth Paltrow during their childhoods in 1980s and 1990s. It allowed white kids to begin to sympathize with the plight of many in black America. Having any Hollywood starlet at your concert was unimaginable, and having her quote your lyrics as a badge of honor that she was hanging out with you, you never would have dreamed of that – until your poetry hit the market and changed the world.

So, for Gwyneth to tweet out her excitement about hip-hop taking over the planet is a good thing. She didn’t mean any harm, she just was trying to ball so hard, and like Jay-Z says, “motherf*ckers can’t fine” her.
The other day, I was sitting in the back of a cab with a friend (our cab driver was not black) and the friend used the word, ‘N-gga’ at least 30 times throughout the ride and I cringed each time. How can a race of people get in such an uproar over a word but willingly and openly sling it around at each other and expect people outside of the culture to not get confused? As African Americans, we feel entitled to use the word in everyday language amongst each other and in music but what happens when the music goes Global. How do you explain to fans, who have never been exposed to African American history, that it’s not alright to say those words, even if it’s the title of your favorite song. Yes, Gwyneth knew better..but did she really?

The only real way to stop the confusion is to eliminate the word from our vocabularies [I agree with The Dream]. No one should be entitled to use it, and it definitely shouldn’t be in the title of your favorite songs. But even that suggestion is like beating a dead horse.

(Source (http://necolebitchie.com/2012/06/06/the-dream-and-russell-simmons-defend-gwyneth-paltrow-after-she-tweets-the-n-word/#more-201615))

The Dream and Russell Simmons Defend Gwyneth Paltrow After She Tweets The ‘N-Word’

Wed, Jun 06 2012 by Necole Bitchie

http://necolebitchie.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/gwyneth_paltrow-jay-z1.jpg (http://necolebitchie.com/2012/06/06/the-dream-and-russell-simmons-defend-gwyneth-paltrow-after-she-tweets-the-n-word/gwyneth_paltrow-jay-z1/)

Jay-z and Kanye West’s ‘Watch The Throne’ track, ‘Niggas In Paris’ is a worldwide hit that has managed to transcend past the cultural barrier of the African American community, so is it really a surprise when there is a stadium full of non-black fans in Paris that are singing ‘N-gga’ when the song comes on? Earlier this week, Gwyneth Paltrow, who is good friends with Beyonce and Jay-z, was torn a new one on twitter when she tweeted, ‘Ni**as in paris for real @mrteriusnash (the dream) tyty, beehigh‘ during the ‘Watch The Throne’ Concert where Jay and Kanye performed the track 11 times in a row. After a few folks checked her about it on twitter, she responded, ‘Hold Up, It’s the title of the song‘.

Days later, The Dream found himself defending Gwyneth on twitter while stating that the African American community is beginning to give the word too much power:[unedited] Yall still on that s–t! Yall Give “N—a To Much power” somewhere the actual racist People are Laughing there asses off, so much energy. Let that Word hold power over me but yet use it as Power. Those same slaves Great,Great grands are Wiser now and Free! I’m not Saying don’t forget but be logical and use common sense. If it meant the Same as it Did then WE wouldn’t use it, that would make us ignorant We USE IT because Evidently it doesn’t mean the same if u really give a s–t u stop using it. Sure Attack her you know she’s not going to do anything, you know in your heart she didn’t mean it in anyway. The world is just full of Bull s–tters who act like they give a s–t haven’t did one righteous act in there lives. Its a Hot Topic because people aint got s–t To Do! Period. Say what u want. No one called Trayvon N—a before he shot him it was an action. Racism is an Action! What! WE GIVE THE WORD TO MUCH POWER! Any way N—az! What’s GOOD
Russell also came to Gwyneth’s defense in a blog posted on Global Grind: (http://globalgrind.com/music/russell-simmons-defends-gwyneth-paltrow-niggas-in-paris-blog) In the case of “N*ggas in Paris,” it is clear that these two poets are celebrating the fact that they now travel the world and are literally ballin’ in Paris … it started as a badge of honor, something to be proud of, something to poke their chests out at. Because for them, when they were kids, Paris was a million miles away and now it’s a private jet ride. The idea of being in Paris with a movie star, whether she’s black or white, is incredible!

There is something truly inspiring about black culture and black music, hip-hop culture and hip-hop music. No matter what color skin you might have, there is an overriding good effect that this music has on you. It is contagious. It was this explosive expression that spread out of the inner cities of America into the walkmans of kids like Gwyneth Paltrow during their childhoods in 1980s and 1990s. It allowed white kids to begin to sympathize with the plight of many in black America. Having any Hollywood starlet at your concert was unimaginable, and having her quote your lyrics as a badge of honor that she was hanging out with you, you never would have dreamed of that – until your poetry hit the market and changed the world.

So, for Gwyneth to tweet out her excitement about hip-hop taking over the planet is a good thing. She didn’t mean any harm, she just was trying to ball so hard, and like Jay-Z says, “motherf*ckers can’t fine” her.
The other day, I was sitting in the back of a cab with a friend (our cab driver was not black) and the friend used the word, ‘N-gga’ at least 30 times throughout the ride and I cringed each time. How can a race of people get in such an uproar over a word but willingly and openly sling it around at each other and expect people outside of the culture to not get confused? As African Americans, we feel entitled to use the word in everyday language amongst each other and in music but what happens when the music goes Global. How do you explain to fans, who have never been exposed to African American history, that it’s not alright to say those words, even if it’s the title of your favorite song. Yes, Gwyneth knew better..but did she really?

The only real way to stop the confusion is to eliminate the word from our vocabularies [I agree with The Dream]. No one should be entitled to use it, and it definitely shouldn’t be in the title of your favorite songs. But even that suggestion is like beating a dead horse.

(Source (http://necolebitchie.com/2012/06/06/the-dream-and-russell-simmons-defend-gwyneth-paltrow-after-she-tweets-the-n-word/#more-201615))

http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachments/electric-road/271949d1191376966-robitronic-goes-brushless-vomit.jpg

Oh gag me

She's a huge fan of the 90's hip hop, so I share her point of view. I actually think that no one should use that word, I find the black people who use it extremely stupid. But anyway, Gwyneth is so innocent that it's annoying, most people are evil and ignorant, deal with it and stop behaving as if you lived in some kind of utopia.

When I heard about this incident, my first thought was "slow news day". As a black person, Gwynnie didn't offend me. I'm not a fan nor am I a non-fan of Lady Coldplay. The only beef I would have is if GP tried to "act black". I'm not saying she does but some white celebs when trying to be cool act "urban" (Hi Aubrey) and it's just... :facepalm:

When I heard about this incident, my first thought was "slow news day". As a black person, Gwynnie didn't offend me. I'm not a fan nor am I a non-fan of Lady Coldplay. The only beef I would have is if GP tried to "act black". I'm not saying she does but some white celebs when trying to be cool act "urban" (Hi Aubrey) and it's just... :facepalm:

That describes like half of the posters on TF acting 'urban' when discussing the Williams Sisters...that's definitely a lot more offensive than Paltrow quoting the title of a song FFS. It's clearly an ugly word, but people will continue saying it as long as it's used so heavily in mainstream music.

This actually reminds me of a funny story of when I was in a club with a friend who wanted to request the song, who proceeded to ask me how he was going to ask the black DJ to play it... I was stumped and said he should maybe ask for 'African-Americans in Paris' :lol: just incase there was the small chance the DJ may get offended..haha. But seriously, how do you go about this? Can any black posters help me out?

Using the word is ignorant regardless of your skin color. It is ignorant for JZ to have a song like that and ignorant for Gwyneth to tweet it.
It is also IDIOTIC for people to try to call out Gwyneth as a racist. Jesus please grow some brain cells.

How is using that word "ignorant?" Ignorant of what?

That describes like half of the posters on TF acting 'urban' when discussing the Williams Sisters...that's definitely a lot more offensive than Paltrow quoting the title of a song FFS. It's clearly an ugly word, but people will continue saying it as long as it's used so heavily in mainstream music.

This actually reminds me of a funny story of when I was in a club with a friend who wanted to request the song, who proceeded to ask me how he was going to ask the black DJ to play it... I was stumped and said he should maybe ask for 'African-Americans in Paris' :lol: just incase there was the small chance the DJ may get offended..haha. But seriously, how do you go about this? Can any black posters help me out?

He should just ask the DJ to play "Niggas in Paris." There's a difference between use and mention.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachments/electric-road/271949d1191376966-robitronic-goes-brushless-vomit.jpg

Oh gag meNot here for their Uncle Tom bullshit. If it was some regular white woman and not GP, they'd be having a fit.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachments/electric-road/271949d1191376966-robitronic-goes-brushless-vomit.jpg


did this person eat too many tennis balls?

what does this have to do with anything i said? :confused: of course i realize that a lot of black (and non-black) people take offense at the use of this word. but then you have to first and foremost criticize the songs that use these lyrics.

Actually what I should have asked is how this--

this. you can't write songs using certain words, wanting the songs to be hits and than expect the people (of all races) who sing along to those songs to self-censor the lyrics.
is relevant? This is not about Jay/Kanye/rappers in general expecting fans to not use the word.

She's a huge fan of the 90's hip hop, so I share her point of view. I actually think that no one should use that word, I find the black people who use it extremely stupid. But anyway, Gwyneth is so innocent that it's annoying, most people are evil and ignorant, deal with it and stop behaving as if you lived in some kind of utopia.

And the white ones?

Not here for their Uncle Tom bullshit. If it was some regular white woman and not GP, they'd be having a fit.

"badge of honor" :help:

Interesting thread. I have some issues with the N word... ok so you know I am French and well white, and I don't listen to music at all... so I had no idea about the N word, only that a lot of black people used it... I saw that word in a few lyrics my friends like to copy on MSN, Facebook...

And yeah I never used it, because why ? I am not gonna call my friends "hey white ass what's up!". The only reference I make is "being as white as an ass" :lol: or I say someone looks really white/paler, because sick. But ... yeah that word, never understood it, I actually never wondered about it, even if I thought it was kinda poor. And my black and white friends often call each other that word, so :shrug: I was like "Well, if even they use it.... who cares?"

But then I was disucssing with a few American people on Internet, and we were talking about it. Really it surprised me. Apparently the N word is like the most horrible slur ever, and no one should ever use it, not even as "N-word", it should be ever banned ! I have been yelled at just because I said "wow didn't know the N word was THAT bad", she was like "don't !!! don't ever write this !!! no !!! not that word ! not even the beginning nothing !" :unsure: ... Well... Weird because some of my friends never acted like that... and that girl said it was perceived this way in the States.
But there was another girl, from South California, she refuted it, she said in her region everyone calls each other the N word yet it's in the States !

So... I asked "then why rappers and/or black people often use it if no one can ever pronounce it ?" , and she said coming from them, it was a whole different matter.....

And that, I am sorry, but I think it's hypocritical :confused: why the heck would you use that word in songs or for your friends?


So, I am still confused about it, is that girl right when she said it was such a horrible word that even the "N word" should not be ever pronounced?

And the white ones?



Either racist assholes or guys who use it to mock trashy black people.

e4AH7Vw1VMY

The Dream and Russell Simmons Defend Gwyneth Paltrow After She Tweets The ‘N-Word’

Wed, Jun 06 2012 by Necole Bitchie

http://necolebitchie.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/gwyneth_paltrow-jay-z1.jpg (http://necolebitchie.com/2012/06/06/the-dream-and-russell-simmons-defend-gwyneth-paltrow-after-she-tweets-the-n-word/gwyneth_paltrow-jay-z1/)

Jay-z and Kanye West’s ‘Watch The Throne’ track, ‘Niggas In Paris’ is a worldwide hit that has managed to transcend past the cultural barrier of the African American community, so is it really a surprise when there is a stadium full of non-black fans in Paris that are singing ‘N-gga’ when the song comes on? Earlier this week, Gwyneth Paltrow, who is good friends with Beyonce and Jay-z, was torn a new one on twitter when she tweeted, ‘Ni**as in paris for real @mrteriusnash (the dream) tyty, beehigh‘ during the ‘Watch The Throne’ Concert where Jay and Kanye performed the track 11 times in a row. After a few folks checked her about it on twitter, she responded, ‘Hold Up, It’s the title of the song‘.

Days later, The Dream found himself defending Gwyneth on twitter while stating that the African American community is beginning to give the word too much power:[unedited] Yall still on that s–t! Yall Give “N—a To Much power” somewhere the actual racist People are Laughing there asses off, so much energy. Let that Word hold power over me but yet use it as Power. Those same slaves Great,Great grands are Wiser now and Free! I’m not Saying don’t forget but be logical and use common sense. If it meant the Same as it Did then WE wouldn’t use it, that would make us ignorant We USE IT because Evidently it doesn’t mean the same if u really give a s–t u stop using it. Sure Attack her you know she’s not going to do anything, you know in your heart she didn’t mean it in anyway. The world is just full of Bull s–tters who act like they give a s–t haven’t did one righteous act in there lives. Its a Hot Topic because people aint got s–t To Do! Period. Say what u want. No one called Trayvon N—a before he shot him it was an action. Racism is an Action! What! WE GIVE THE WORD TO MUCH POWER! Any way N—az! What’s GOOD
Russell also came to Gwyneth’s defense in a blog posted on Global Grind: (http://globalgrind.com/music/russell-simmons-defends-gwyneth-paltrow-niggas-in-paris-blog) In the case of “N*ggas in Paris,” it is clear that these two poets are celebrating the fact that they now travel the world and are literally ballin’ in Paris … it started as a badge of honor, something to be proud of, something to poke their chests out at. Because for them, when they were kids, Paris was a million miles away and now it’s a private jet ride. The idea of being in Paris with a movie star, whether she’s black or white, is incredible!

There is something truly inspiring about black culture and black music, hip-hop culture and hip-hop music. No matter what color skin you might have, there is an overriding good effect that this music has on you. It is contagious. It was this explosive expression that spread out of the inner cities of America into the walkmans of kids like Gwyneth Paltrow during their childhoods in 1980s and 1990s. It allowed white kids to begin to sympathize with the plight of many in black America. Having any Hollywood starlet at your concert was unimaginable, and having her quote your lyrics as a badge of honor that she was hanging out with you, you never would have dreamed of that – until your poetry hit the market and changed the world.

So, for Gwyneth to tweet out her excitement about hip-hop taking over the planet is a good thing. She didn’t mean any harm, she just was trying to ball so hard, and like Jay-Z says, “motherf*ckers can’t fine” her.
The other day, I was sitting in the back of a cab with a friend (our cab driver was not black) and the friend used the word, ‘N-gga’ at least 30 times throughout the ride and I cringed each time. How can a race of people get in such an uproar over a word but willingly and openly sling it around at each other and expect people outside of the culture to not get confused? As African Americans, we feel entitled to use the word in everyday language amongst each other and in music but what happens when the music goes Global. How do you explain to fans, who have never been exposed to African American history, that it’s not alright to say those words, even if it’s the title of your favorite song. Yes, Gwyneth knew better..but did she really?

The only real way to stop the confusion is to eliminate the word from our vocabularies [I agree with The Dream]. No one should be entitled to use it, and it definitely shouldn’t be in the title of your favorite songs. But even that suggestion is like beating a dead horse.

(Source (http://necolebitchie.com/2012/06/06/the-dream-and-russell-simmons-defend-gwyneth-paltrow-after-she-tweets-the-n-word/#more-201615))

Well, if Russell Simmons says it's ok that ends the discussion. :rolleyes:

Either racist assholes or guys who use it to mock trashy black people.

e4AH7Vw1VMY

Bunifa's not trashy, she's the http://www.puma-project.eu/yacs/smileys/images/shouting.gifB-B-B-B-B-B-BOMB!!!

Interesting thread. I have some issues with the N word... ok so you know I am French and well white, and I don't listen to music at all... so I had no idea about the N word, only that a lot of black people used it... I saw that word in a few lyrics my friends like to copy on MSN, Facebook...

And yeah I never used it, because why ? I am not gonna call my friends "hey white ass what's up!". The only reference I make is "being as white as an ass" :lol: or I say someone looks really white/paler, because sick. But ... yeah that word, never understood it, I actually never wondered about it, even if I thought it was kinda poor. And my black and white friends often call each other that word, so :shrug: I was like "Well, if even they use it.... who cares?"

But then I was disucssing with a few American people on Internet, and we were talking about it. Really it surprised me. Apparently the N word is like the most horrible slur ever, and no one should ever use it, not even as "N-word", it should be ever banned ! I have been yelled at just because I said "wow didn't know the N word was THAT bad", she was like "don't !!! don't ever write this !!! no !!! not that word ! not even the beginning nothing !" :unsure: ... Well... Weird because some of my friends never acted like that... and that girl said it was perceived this way in the States.
But there was another girl, from South California, she refuted it, she said in her region everyone calls each other the N word yet it's in the States !

So... I asked "then why rappers and/or black people often use it if no one can ever pronounce it ?" , and she said coming from them, it was a whole different matter.....

And that, I am sorry, but I think it's hypocritical :confused: why the heck would you use that word in songs or for your friends?


So, I am still confused about it, is that girl right when she said it was such a horrible word that even the "N word" should not be ever pronounced?As a white person, I think it is definitely hard for you to understand, because there is no equivalent racial slur for white people. So you have no idea how degrading and humiliating it is for a black person to be called "nigga" by a white person, in any context. I have never been called it, but I have heard some white professors use the word in a lecture, and it made me cringe and it made everybody look at me immediately, which made it even more humiliating.

I, for one, do not say "nigga" in front of white people, because I don't want to give them the impression that they can EVER use that word to address me. But I do sometimes do use the word when I am with family or black friends, its usually in a playful or loving way, its never intended to degrade or humiliate. Its similar to how some lesbians refer to other (often more butch) lesbians as "dy---", usually in a playful or loving way. But for a white person to say "nigga/ger/etc." is degrading and humiliating, because its a word that white people created to degrade blacks and make them feel inferior.

Its just like a straight person calling a gay person a "f----t" or a "d---". Yes, sometimes gay people call themselves this, but that doesn't mean that straight people should say it. Its difficult for white people to understand, because there is no white equivalent to the slur. You ever wonder why every other group of people on Earth has an awful, humiliating slur to characterize them, except white people?

Bunifa's not trashy, she's the http://www.puma-project.eu/yacs/smileys/images/shouting.gifB-B-B-B-B-B-BOMB!!!

I don't know about that but Debra Wilson is brilliant :lol: Her Oprah impersonations :bowdown:

As a white person, I think it is definitely hard for you to understand, because there is no equivalent racial slur for white people. So you have no idea how degrading and humiliating it is for a black person to be called "nigga" by a white person, in any context. I have never been called it, but I have heard some white professors use the word in a lecture, and it made me cringe and it made everybody look at me immediately, which made it even more humiliating.

I, for one, do not say "nigga" in front of white people, because I don't want to give them the impression that they can EVER use that word to address me. But I do sometimes do use the word when I am with family or black friends, its usually in a playful or loving way, its never intended to degrade or humiliate. Its similar to how some lesbians refer to other (often more butch) lesbians as "dy---", usually in a playful or loving way. But for a white person to say "nigga/ger/etc." is degrading and humiliating, because its a word that white people created to degrade blacks and make them feel inferior.

Its just like a straight person calling a gay person a "f----t" or a "d---". Yes, sometimes gay people call themselves this, but that doesn't mean that straight people should say it. Its difficult for white people to understand, because there is no white equivalent to the slur. You ever wonder why every other group of people on Earth has an awful, humiliating slur to characterize them, except white people?

Ok thanks for the great explanation ! :yeah: I definitely feel you.... must be horrible.... No need to feel humiliated, they should feel humiliated if they side eyed you. Didn't you try to talk about it? It would have opened their eyes perhaps?
I can understand because this is mostly about discrimination for something we didn't choose....

I have a few questions...

1/ What about white people who want to sound gangsta? Like they hang out with black people, they are awesome friends, clearly they are not racist at all, they totally feel the same, so they might use it in a playful, teasing way as well???

2/ Yeah actually, since you studied antropologia, you must know the origins of this word? Back then in slavery era right? I am defo interested !

3/ Actually maybe I need to read much more books (even if I already read a lot) or something, but I was not aware of other racial slurs as bad as this word :unsure:
What about white people when they go to Africa in very sensitive countries like maybe Somalia?

I'll send you a PM, bb. I don't wanna hi-jack the thread.

Ok, thank you. :hug:

Well, if Russell Simmons says it's ok that ends the discussion. :rolleyes:
:lol:

Why can't white people or rather people who aren't black just accept that the word is NOT for them. Just don't use the word. It goes back to entitlement, if you ask me. People think they're entitled to do whatever they want/say whatever they want (especially in the US). I've never called a white person "crack**, etc." because despite the fact that white people may use these words or not, it isn't right for ME to say it and call them that even if I am jokingly going about it. I'm not entitled to words like that.

I was called a "nigg-er" once in my life a few months ago (through facebook, nonetheless) and I wanted to whoop his ass so badly. Just don't use the word. Like I said, it's just not for certain people/groups of people and if it seems unfair, oh well.

Also, take the sibling thing for example. I can call my brother an insulting name (out of humor or even if we were upset with each other), but if another person came out of their mouth trying to degrade/humiliate my sibling (even if using the same words I've used) I would whoop someone's ass in a heartbeat. I'm just saying.

How about the word shouldn't be for anybody, then?

How about the word shouldn't be for anybody, then?
In an ideal world, yes. But this isn't an ideal world. The word is around, so it needs to be dealt with. Instead of the usage of this word decreasing I feel like in the past few years it has increased. Unacceptable.

In an ideal world, yes. But this isn't an ideal world. The word is around, so it needs to be dealt with. Instead of the usage of this word decreasing I feel like in the past few years it has increased. Unacceptable.

Increased where? As a slur? Things are so strange now in this country. It seems like since we have a black President some people are not ashamed to be openly racist. Hell, both of my black sisters use ****** as a slur. It's really strange and sad.

Increased where? As a slur? Things are so strange now in this country. It seems like since we have a black President some people are not ashamed to be openly racist. Hell, both of my black sisters use ****** as a slur. It's really strange and sad.

Really? That's very strange. Do they identify as black? :unsure:

I can only account for the US since I live here.

Really? That's very strange. Do they identify as black? :unsure:

Yes. And they've used it to refer to their black bfs when they're angry with them. I don't get it, except clearly they are using it as a way to be hurtful. That's why I don't use the word, period. I think "asshole" would be more than sufficient. :shrug:

What about white people when they go to Africa in very sensitive countries like maybe Somalia?

Why Somalia of all countries?

is relevant? This is not about Jay/Kanye/rappers in general expecting fans to not use the word.

the song is the context of how gwyneth used the word, so of course it's relevant.

but discussing with you is always like banging one's head against the wall repeatedly. i never seem to be able to make a point with you. so i'm off.

Why Somalia of all countries?

Oh I was trying to find an example out of my head !
But the other day, I read fascinating reports about Somalia where rebels try to control the population who is really starving... Like humanitarians are trying to come there in order to give food and stuff to people, but get killed or tortured by the rebels :sad:

And yes, true, these rebels don't care if they kill black people since they even killed poor kids..... but in these reports, I read that they were maaaaaaad against white people as well for some reasons, and I was wondering if when these people don't meet them first, they were still called names :scratch: There is racism anti-whites, of course it's rarer than for black people, History explains why (slavery history.... much more Black people concerned ....). So I was just wondering how it is refeered in some countries where conflicts can't ever stop.

Oh I was trying to find an example out of my head !
But the other day, I read fascinating reports about Somalia where rebels try to control the population who is really starving... Like humanitarians are trying to come there in order to give food and stuff to people, but get killed or tortured by the rebels :sad:

And yes, true, these rebels don't care if they kill black people since they even killed poor kids..... but in these reports, I read that they were maaaaaaad against white people as well for some reasons, and I was wondering if when these people don't meet them first, they were still called names :scratch: There is racism anti-whites, of course it's rarer than for black people, History explains why (slavery history.... much more Black people concerned ....). So I was just wondering how it is refeered in some countries where conflicts can't ever stop.
What is this sloppy mess of a post?!

What is this sloppy mess of a post?!

:weirdo: Please elaborate.

the song is the context of how gwyneth used the word, so of course it's relevant.

but discussing with you is always like banging one's head against the wall repeatedly. i never seem to be able to make a point with you. so i'm off.

Ugh I knew I shouldn't have responded to you in the first place. Talking to you is not a pleasurable experience either.

First you say people that write songs with this word have no right to ask others to self censor. Then when I point out that hey, guess what it's not necessarily people that write these songs that don't like to hear the use of the word, you fail to understand.

Fine. I give you a chance to explain why your original statement is remotely relevant and you can't. All you can do is make obvious statements about Gwyneth using the song as a context for the word. Oh really? I had no idea. Thanks for that. What the hell do Jay-Z and Kanye West putting that word in their song have to do with anyone else that presumably has a problem with Gwyneth's tweet? If you had explained that b.s. this would have been over a long time ago. But no you can't and you're acting like you made a point when you can't even justify it.

Oh I was trying to find an example out of my head !
But the other day, I read fascinating reports about Somalia where rebels try to control the population who is really starving... Like humanitarians are trying to come there in order to give food and stuff to people, but get killed or tortured by the rebels :sad:

And yes, true, these rebels don't care if they kill black people since they even killed poor kids..... but in these reports, I read that they were maaaaaaad against white people as well for some reasons, and I was wondering if when these people don't meet them first, they were still called names :scratch: There is racism anti-whites, of course it's rarer than for black people, History explains why (slavery history.... much more Black people concerned ....). So I was just wondering how it is refeered in some countries where conflicts can't ever stop.

Are you asking what racist words are used against white people in Somalia? Or whether it's considered ok or not?
I'm sorry I don't understand you and I'm not entirely sure what your question/point is.

Are you asking what racist words are used against white people in Somalia? Or whether it's considered ok or not?
I'm sorry I don't understand you and I'm not entirely sure what your question/point is.

Yeah it was not clear at all and I apologize for that.

Actually I was asking if there is an equivalent or behaviour or something for the N word for white people in these broken countries.
LBV raised a good issue when he said there was no equivalent for white people, and I have been thinking about this, and yeah I can't come up with good examples, but thought of the anti-white people racism.

It's much rarer because it doesn't happen in Occidental countries , yet the N word is everywhere.

Yeah it was not clear at all and I apologize for that.

Actually I was asking if there is an equivalent or behaviour or something for the N word for white people in these broken countries.
LBV raised a good issue when he said there was no equivalent for white people, and I have been thinking about this, and yeah I can't come up with good examples, but thought of the anti-white people racism.

It's much rarer because it doesn't happen in Occidental countries , yet the N word is everywhere.
There is no equivalent (in terms of impact and power) of the N word for white people, in my opinion.

Anti-white people racism?! Reverse racism?! o.O

There is no equivalent (in terms of impact and power) of the N word for white people, in my opinion.

Anti-white people racism?! Reverse racism?! o.O

I am trying to fully understand it, but I feel like it's not possible... Non equivalent? :eek: It's crazy because it's so common out there....

Yeah of course it exists, maybe in regions where there are barely white people, because of a lack of eduction ?? I don't know, because I've met some racists, and they were more ignorant than anything, thinking the strangers would steal everything from them. :o Some stuff like that. I don't know personally, but I've heard of it. Also it might exist because of the treatement they've gotten, but not sure if there is still the case....

Yeah it was not clear at all and I apologize for that.

Actually I was asking if there is an equivalent or behaviour or something for the N word for white people in these broken countries.
LBV raised a good issue when he said there was no equivalent for white people, and I have been thinking about this, and yeah I can't come up with good examples, but thought of the anti-white people racism.

It's much rarer because it doesn't happen in Occidental countries , yet the N word is everywhere.

I am trying to fully understand it, but I feel like it's not possible... Non equivalent? :eek: It's crazy because it's so common out there....

Yeah of course it exists, maybe in regions where there are barely white people, because of a lack of eduction ?? I don't know, because I've met some racists, and they were more ignorant than anything, thinking the strangers would steal everything from them. :o Some stuff like that. I don't know personally, but I've heard of it. Also it might exist because of the treatement they've gotten, but not sure if there is still the case....

Of course there are offensive words used to describe white people. We were discussing one earlier in this thread ('cracka' or 'cracker'). The main reason I think they are not 'equivalent' is because, unlike the N word, they are not associated with a history of slavery or discrimination on the scale of what black/non-white people have been subjected to.

It doesn't have anything to do with how many white people there are in a given country. I find that suggestion silly and kind of offensive, to be honest.

Of course there are offensive words used to describe white people. We were discussing one earlier in this thread ('cracka' or 'cracker'). The main reason I think they are not 'equivalent' is because, unlike the N word, they are not associated with a history of slavery or discrimination on the scale of what black/non-white people have been subjected to.

It doesn't have anything to do with how many white people there are in a given country. I find that suggestion silly and kind of offensive, to be honest.

Cracker lol I have never heard of that, but that might be because english is not my first language.


Oh come on, even that is offensive ?! :help: I have been trying to be very cautious with my words because I didn't want to be clumsy with words which could hurt some people, but it's not enough. It's annoying really.

It's logical ! Look, I have been invited to a dinner with friends, we were 4, it was between the two rounds of French elections (so around the end of April), and one of us brought up the issue of presidential elections. I don't know if you are aware of this, but far right Marine Le Pen had almost 20% of voices, which is awful even if it was not enough to reach the second round. Also Sarkozy changed his strategy to be much more offensive about immigration and that stuff.

So I randomly talked about how horrible Le Pen's score was... then suddenly my friends said she actually raised good questions... one of them even said "look I am 30, I have been in that city since forever, and I think there are too many Black people here, it's worrisome ewwww, blablablabla" and others agreed with him. Seriously. That shocked me sfm. So I answered "That's because you guys have never been out from here, yes there are more black people, so what? That happens everywhere and I mean, most of them are French, it's only a colour of skin, wtf is your point ?", then they said welfare was abused by Muslim dudes who brought all their wives ( :weirdo: ) so they would have much more welfare than the average French. I tried to say it was illegal so I doubted it, and that anyway it must be only a minority. But nah.

So my point here is that my hometown used to be full of white people, I remember I was shocked when I moved out to go to the uni and I met much more black people just for the contrast. :lol: And I've noticed racism was clearly much higher in my hometown than in my uni town for instance. I don't think it's a coincidence.

I agree with you in essence but I also find it hard to explain what I mean. I'll get back to you.:wavey:

I am trying to fully understand it, but I feel like it's not possible... Non equivalent? :eek: It's crazy because it's so common out there....

Yeah of course it exists, maybe in regions where there are barely white people, because of a lack of eduction ?? I don't know, because I've met some racists, and they were more ignorant than anything, thinking the strangers would steal everything from them. :o Some stuff like that. I don't know personally, but I've heard of it. Also it might exist because of the treatement they've gotten, but not sure if there is still the case....

The thing about racists is that they ignorant people. They are not just nasty to foreigners, they are also usually unpleasant to everyone.

I think that if you don't want to be called a certain slur, then you shouldn't use that slur even if you're in the race/culture that slur is referring to.

I think that if you don't want to be called a certain slur, then you shouldn't use that slur even if you're in the race/culture that slur is referring to.
Why not?

Why not?

Because its a double standard. Looking at your earlier posts you clearly don't understand what's wrong with that.

If I'm with a bunch of friends and all the lesbians are light heartedly calling each other dykes, I shouldn't be offended if one of my straight friends calls me a dyke. If I don't want to be called a dyke, I shouldn't call other lesbians dykes.

Because its a double standard. Looking at your earlier posts you clearly don't understand what's wrong with that.

If I'm with a bunch of friends and all the lesbians are light heartedly calling each other dykes, I shouldn't be offended if one of my straight friends calls me a dyke. If I don't want to be called a dyke, I shouldn't call other lesbians dykes.Why is the responsibility on me not to use the slur, instead of the other person having the human decency and courtesy and not say something they know could be hurtful?

Because its a double standard. Looking at your earlier posts you clearly don't understand what's wrong with that.

If I'm with a bunch of friends and all the lesbians are light heartedly calling each other dykes, I shouldn't be offended if one of my straight friends calls me a dyke. If I don't want to be called a dyke, I shouldn't call other lesbians dykes.

Yes, it's a double standard. But why are double standards necessarily bad?

Why is the responsibility on me not to use the slur, instead of the other person having the human decency and courtesy and not say something they know could be hurtful?

It should be your responsibility to not use it if you don't want people to use it on you.
I don't think it's ok to use it in a hurtful way, but Gwen clearly wasn't trying to offend anyone. You have the right to be mad at anyone that calls you the N word if they mean it in a hurtful way. You just can't blame Gwen when it's used in a song title.
Just curious, If you wrote N***s in Paris would you be mad at Gwen for tweeting that?

It should be your responsibility to not use it if you don't want people to use it on you.
I don't think it's ok to use it in a hurtful way, but Gwen clearly wasn't trying to offend anyone. You have the right to be mad at anyone that calls you the N word if they mean it in a hurtful way. You just can't blame Gwen when it's used in a song title.
Just curious, If you wrote N***s in Paris would you be mad at Gwen for tweeting that?****** is an extremely loaded term, and coming out of a white mouth it is ALWAYS hurtful. Besides, I never said the word to Gwyneth, so it was offensive and irresponsible for her to tweet it to me as a follower. If she wants to say it to Kanye and Jay-Z and they're okay with it, fine. But rappers ≠ all black people, just because she can say it to them and its not offensive, doesnt mean she can say it to me and not be offensive.

It doesn't seem that hard to understand. :lol:

****** is an extremely loaded term, and coming out of a white mouth it is ALWAYS hurtful. Besides, I never said the word to Gwyneth, so it was offensive and irresponsible for her to tweet it to me as a follower. If she wants to say it to Kanye and Jay-Z and they're okay with it, fine. But rappers ≠ all black people, just because she can say it to them and its not offensive, doesnt mean she can say it to me and not be offensive.

It doesn't seem that hard to understand. :lol:
It really isn't that difficult to understand, but then again....she isn't black. :tape:

I swear it feels like entitlement. :lol:

****** is an extremely loaded term, and coming out of a white mouth it is ALWAYS hurtful. Besides, I never said the word to Gwyneth, so it was offensive and irresponsible for her to tweet it to me as a follower. If she wants to say it to Kanye and Jay-Z and they're okay with it, fine. But rappers ≠ all black people, just because she can say it to them and its not offensive, doesnt mean she can say it to me and not be offensive.

It doesn't seem that hard to understand. :lol:

I just don't understand, if you don't want people to say it then why do you say it yourself?
It's just comman sense. If you don't want people to be mean to you, then don't be mean to them.

It really isn't that difficult to understand, but then again....she isn't black. :tape:

I swear it feels like entitlement. :lol:Thats all it is, entitlement and privilege. :lol:

I just don't understand, if you don't want people to say it then why do you say it yourself?
It's just comman sense. If you don't want people to be mean to you, then don't be mean to them.Because the context is different when I say it to myself, or to my friends, than when a white person says it.
And asking you not to call me a ****** EVER is being mean to you? :confused:

I just don't understand, if you don't want people to say it then why do you say it yourself?
It's just comman sense. If you don't want people to be mean to you, then don't be mean to them.
None of my white friends have heard me say the N word. But a few of them have slipped up and said it while in my presence and then tried to make me seen like the "angry black guy" because I didn't want them saying it. Explain that, please.

And you know what one tried to say to me "it's only a word" :lol:

****** is an extremely loaded term, and coming out of a white mouth it is ALWAYS hurtful. Besides, I never said the word to Gwyneth, so it was offensive and irresponsible for her to tweet it to me as a follower. If she wants to say it to Kanye and Jay-Z and they're okay with it, fine. But rappers ≠ all black people, just because she can say it to them and its not offensive, doesnt mean she can say it to me and not be offensive.

It doesn't seem that hard to understand. :lol:

Is it offensive "coming out of a white mouth" even in the context of someone singing along to a song? In which cases what level of responsibility do the songwriters have?

Culture is not neatly divided certainly music isnt, and if you are gonna put out music emphasising that word then that word is going to be used more, by black fans and white fans.

It's most straightforward to either say you are against the its use by anyone, or at least anyone using it in an insulting context. Which I don't believe Paltrow was.

Thats all it is, entitlement and privilege. :lol:

Because the context is different when I say it to myself, or to my friends, than when a white person says it.
And asking you not to call me a ****** EVER is being mean to you? :confused:

That's bull shit. A word doesn't magically change meaning when it's said by a different person.
If n****r where in the dictionary it wouldn't have a different meaning for if a black person said it and if a white person said it.

If a group of all different races was hanging out and the black kids kept on calling each other the N word and then a non black kid called one of the black kids A n****r would you get mad at them?
And I was using the mean statement as an example of double standards.

And can you please tell me what this entitlement talk is about?

Is it offensive "coming out of a white mouth" even in the context of someone singing along to a song? In which cases what level of responsibility do the songwriters have?

Culture is not neatly divided certainly music isnt, and if you are gonna put out music emphasising that word then that word is going to be used more, by black fans and white fans.

It's most straightforward to either say you are against the its use by anyone, or at least anyone using it in an insulting context. Which I don't believe Paltrow was.

Read up about the use-mention distinction. :)

Paltrow might not have used it to intentionally insult someone. But it was offensive nonetheless. :shrug:

Is it offensive "coming out of a white mouth" even in the context of someone singing along to a song? In which cases what level of responsibility do the songwriters have?

Culture is not neatly divided certainly music isnt, and if you are gonna put out music emphasising that word then that word is going to be used more, by black fans and white fans.

It's most straightforward to either say you are against the its use by anyone, or at least anyone using it in an insulting context. Which I don't believe Paltrow was.Yes it is hurtful and degrading coming out of a white mouth, at least for me, in any instance. I don't care if you're a college professor giving a lecture about the word, it provokes an intensely negative psychological reaction when a white person says it. Like I said, its a loaded term.

Why am I, as a black person, held responsible for what ALL rappers say in their lyrics? Particularly when it comes to what language I will and won't accept? Are white people held to the standards of what white rock stars and pop singers put out in popular music? No. :lol: So why am I suddenly forced to be accountable for what Jay-Z and Kanye say? If Gwyneth wanted to say it to those songwriters personally, thats their deal. :shrug: But that doesn't give her the right to say it to me.

That's bull shit. A word doesn't magically change meaning when it's said by a different person.
If n****r where in the dictionary it wouldn't have a different meaning for if a black person said it and if a white person said it.

If a group of all different races was hanging out and the black kids kept on calling each other the N word and then a non black kid called one of the black kids A n****r would you get mad at them?
And I was using the mean statement as an example of double standards.

And can you please tell me what this entitlement talk is about?

No one's claiming that it changes meaning. But it does change the reaction to that word. Most black people are not offended when they hear "nigga" being said by a black person but are when it's said by a white person. That's just the way it is. :shrug:

That's bull shit. A word doesn't magically change meaning when it's said by a different person.
If n****r where in the dictionary it wouldn't have a different meaning for if a black person said it and if a white person said it.

If a group of all different races was hanging out and the black kids kept on calling each other the N word and then a non black kid called one of the black kids A n****r would you get mad at them?
And I was using the mean statement as an example of double standards.

And can you please tell me what this entitlement talk is about?
Why do you sound so upset? :lol:

Words DEFINITELY have different meanings when said by different people/words are interpreted differently when said by different people. That's basic logical understanding.

That's bull shit. A word doesn't magically change meaning when it's said by a different person.
If n****r where in the dictionary it wouldn't have a different meaning for if a black person said it and if a white person said it.

If a group of all different races was hanging out and the black kids kept on calling each other the N word and then a non black kid called one of the black kids A n****r would you get mad at them?
And I was using the mean statement as an example of double standards.

And can you please tell me what this entitlement talk is about?It does have different meanings for different people, baby. Thats called context. :lol::lol:

And this is where you get it confused: it's not about being "mad" at anyone. Its about being humiliated and degraded, which is something that I will not accept. If a white person became privy to a conversation in which I said ******, no, that does not give them the right to say it to me. And every decent white person that I know, wouldn't even WANT to say the word because they know the history of it. Its only the non-decent ones who can't seem to understand...

Yes it is hurtful and degrading coming out of a white mouth, at least for me, in any instance. I don't care if you're a college professor giving a lecture about the word, it provokes an intensely negative psychological reaction when a white person says it. Like I said, its a loaded term.

Why am I, as a black person, held responsible for what ALL rappers say in their lyrics? Particularly when it comes to what language I will and won't accept? Are white people held to the standards of what white rock stars and pop singers put out in popular music? No. :lol: So why am I suddenly forced to be accountable for what Jay-Z and Kanye say? If Gwyneth wanted to say it to those songwriters personally, thats their deal. :shrug: But that doesn't give her the right to say it to me.
All of this.


In my AP Lit class. I was the only black person in the class. Every time my teacher used the word it made me uncomfortable. He would make certain people read out loud to the class and basically force them to say the word. One student skipped over the word and he made him go back and read the word. They all would look at my reaction because the teacher and I didn't get along from the very beginning because of unfair grading. -_-

All of this.


In my AP Lit class. I was the only black person in the class. Every time my teacher used the word it made me uncomfortable. He would make certain people read out loud to the class and basically force them to say the word. One student skipped over the word and he made him go back and read the word. They all would look at my reaction because the teacher and I didn't get along from the very beginning because of unfair grading. -_-Theres a sick level of masochism and aggressiveness involved, because they want to say it, and they want to see your reaction when they say it. Theres some perverse pleasure involved in saying the word.

I just refuse to accept those microaggressions.

Theres a sick level of masochism and aggressiveness involved, because they want to say it, and they want to see your reaction when they say it. Theres some perverse pleasure involved in saying the word.

I just refuse to accept those microaggressions.
My mom called him and the school and after the 1st Quarter I was removed from his class. I got a 5 of the AP Exam, too. It's tough to prove unfair grading in an English course. :lol: But it was obvious.

And yeah, I just sat in class. Concealing all emotion, blank-faced, stoic. I wasn't going to give him the satisfaction of seeing me upset.

He had the nerve to say "You think I'm bad, you should see my brother in laws up in Arkansas" :o I wanted to choke him out.

Theres a sick level of masochism and aggressiveness involved, because they want to say it, and they want to see your reaction when they say it. Theres some perverse pleasure involved in saying the word.

I just refuse to accept those microaggressions.

So true. I was getting looks when the word "niggardly" came up in my class. :facepalm: But I don't show any emotion anyway so they didn't get any pleasure from me.

It's 2 am here and I'm super tired and nervous so I'm just gonna end with saying this: If a word caries so much hate
and bad feelings, and you want to see it eliminated, then you shouldn't use it.

All of this.


In my AP Lit class. I was the only black person in the class. Every time my teacher used the word it made me uncomfortable. He would make certain people read out loud to the class and basically force them to say the word. One student skipped over the word and he made him go back and read the word. They all would look at my reaction because the teacher and I didn't get along from the very beginning because of unfair grading. -_-

Wow that's horrible. I was lucky with my teachers. In 8th grade I had a teacher that refused to let us say the word.
I have this weird obsession with memorizing rap songs and I of course never say the n word and my friends always make fun of me. It's disgusting.

Anyways I know you guys disagreed with me, but it was still nice talking to you. At least we can all agree that we love tennis. :P
Oh and one more thing, N*****s in Paris is one catchy song.

So true. I was getting looks when the word "niggardly" came up in my class. :facepalm: But I don't show any emotion anyway so they didn't get any pleasure from me.

I wish I could do that. My emotions always show when it comes to things like that. Sometimes it's so hard to be the bigger person.

Yes it is hurtful and degrading coming out of a white mouth, at least for me, in any instance. I don't care if you're a college professor giving a lecture about the word, it provokes an intensely negative psychological reaction when a white person says it. Like I said, its a loaded term.

Why am I, as a black person, held responsible for what ALL rappers say in their lyrics? Particularly when it comes to what language I will and won't accept? Are white people held to the standards of what white rock stars and pop singers put out in popular music? No. :lol: So why am I suddenly forced to be accountable for what Jay-Z and Kanye say? If Gwyneth wanted to say it to those songwriters personally, thats their deal. :shrug: But that doesn't give her the right to say it to me.

It's not about saying you are in any way responsible for what any other person does anymore than I am. But what is your view, should people like Jay-Z etc be putting songs like that out there? Surely their use of the word out there in the wider world perpetuates it's use?

My mom called him and the school and after the 1st Quarter I was removed from his class. I got a 5 of the AP Exam, too. It's tough to prove unfair grading in an English course. :lol: But it was obvious.

And yeah, I just sat in class. Concealing all emotion, blank-faced, stoic. I wasn't going to give him the satisfaction of seeing me upset.

He had the nerve to say "You think I'm bad, you should see my brother in laws up in Arkansas" :o I wanted to choke him out.

The teacher in question was clearly a racist and should have been fired, I'd stand shoulder to shoulder with you on that.

But you can see that there is a fundamental difference between the actions and intentions of your teacher and Paltrow, that they are light years away from each other.

Which doesn't make it right...just I think it's hard to condemn Paltrow without examining what people like Jay-Z are producing.
.

It's not about saying you are in any way responsible for what any other person does anymore than I am. But what is your view, should people like Jay-Z etc be putting songs like that out there? Surely their use of the word out there in the wider world perpetuates it's use?
No. It's not their job to teach you what you can and can't say. :o

A wise person by the name of Lil' Wayne once said, and I'm paraphrasing here, "it's not my job to raise your children".

The teacher in question was clearly a racist and should have been fired, I'd stand shoulder to shoulder with you on that.

But you can see that there is a fundamental difference between the actions and intentions of your teacher and Paltrow, that they are light years away from each other.

Which doesn't make it right...just I think it's hard to condemn Paltrow without examining what people like Jay-Z are producing.
.
Where did I try to compare that situation to what Paltrow wrote? I didn't. I was simply sharing an experience that happened in my life with Rex Regum.

It's not about saying you are in any way responsible for what any other person does anymore than I am. But what is your view, should people like Jay-Z etc be putting songs like that out there? Surely their use of the word out there in the wider world perpetuates it's use?I think its a cultural expression when Jay-Z and Kanye use it, so I'm not opposed to the way they use it. I think that white people can consume, appreciate and respect their music, while still respecting the fact that ****** is a degrading, pejorative term for them to use. I think most decent white people who listen to hip hop are already aware of this fact and just skip over the word when reciting lyrics.

Why is the responsibility on me not to use the slur, instead of the other person having the human decency and courtesy and not say something they know could be hurtful?

This.

Why do you sound so upset? :lol:

Words DEFINITELY have different meanings when said by different people/words are interpreted differently when said by different people. That's basic logical understanding.

And this again.

Because its a double standard. Looking at your earlier posts you clearly don't understand what's wrong with that.

If I'm with a bunch of friends and all the lesbians are light heartedly calling each other dykes, I shouldn't be offended if one of my straight friends calls me a dyke. If I don't want to be called a dyke, I shouldn't call other lesbians dykes.


Ok, sorry if that annoys you but :lol: yeah, ok I am white, but I was born deaf. So I clearly didn't choose it at all ! No one in my family is deaf, no one in my school was deaf... (I still knew deaf people, but not in my hometown, and even in my hometown) yet I have complicated relationships with many deafs because they think I betrayed the community. Whatever I am not here to tell my life but to prove a point. :lol:

So yeah at middle school, teenagers can be quite cruel, and yeah I've been called names in relation to my deafness. It hurt like hell. I was crying, I didn't understand why I was judged on that. OTOH I am perfectly able to turn what they said into jokes but with my family and my close friends. I have no problems making fun of myself, and I don't mind if my family and friends do that, because I know they don't mean it but are teasing me. I laugh with them, and they are not deaf.
But I can't accept that coming from casual people I don't know that well, from teachers, from unknowns... It used to be the thing that hurt me the most (not anymore, I just get offended because I think it's not okay and can disserve other peoples not me. Ignorance is the root of meanness IMO).

So I think black people can kinda relate to this, but with the N-word. :shrug:


All of this.


In my AP Lit class. I was the only black person in the class. Every time my teacher used the word it made me uncomfortable. He would make certain people read out loud to the class and basically force them to say the word. One student skipped over the word and he made him go back and read the word. They all would look at my reaction because the teacher and I didn't get along from the very beginning because of unfair grading. -_-


OMG !!!!! What an asshole !!!!! :speakles: :speakles: Did you get to speak your mind? I would have ! This is so disgusting !!!!
Ugh, just. People. :hug:

No, the only thing that was done was me being removed from his class. The biggest F you to him was me getting the highest score possible on the AP Exam, which kinda showed that his grading was utter bullshat.

Later that year though, he stopped me while I was going into the library and told that Obama was at a rally or something and the people at the rally/in the crowd were calling Obama the N word. I stared at him, then walked away without saying a word. What was the point of him even saying that to me? A mess.

No, the only thing that was done was me being removed from his class. The biggest F you to him was me getting the highest score possible on the AP Exam, which kinda showed that his grading was utter bullshat.

Later that year though, he stopped me while I was going into the library and told that Obama was at a rally or something and the people at the rally/in the crowd were calling Obama the N word. I stared at him, then walked away without saying a word. What was the point of him even saying that to me? A mess.

WTF was his problem?
Wow, I respect you :yeah: you proved him wrong in the best and classiest way possible. :yeah:
Sad how some people, despite what we say, will never learn.

I think its a cultural expression when Jay-Z and Kanye use it, so I'm not opposed to the way they use it. I think that white people can consume, appreciate and respect their music, while still respecting the fact that ****** is a degrading, pejorative term for them to use. I think most decent white people who listen to hip hop are already aware of this fact and just skip over the word when reciting lyrics.

Do you not think it being used by Jay-Z and Kanye actually perpetuates it's use in the wider world? Certainly that seems to what happened in Paltrow's case.

It seems a weird situation to have songs where a segment of the audience is barred from singing parts of the song based on their race.

Do you not think it being used by Jay-Z and Kanye actually perpetuates it's use in the wider world? Certainly that seems to what happened in Paltrow's case.

It seems a weird situation to have songs where a segment of the audience is barred from singing parts of the song based on their race.

that was the point i was trying to make earlier. thank you for finding better words.

Do you not think it being used by Jay-Z and Kanye actually perpetuates it's use in the wider world? Certainly that seems to what happened in Paltrow's case.

It seems a weird situation to have songs where a segment of the audience is barred from singing parts of the song based on their race.

I know. It's absurd.

This.



And this again.




Ok, sorry if that annoys you but :lol: yeah, ok I am white, but I was born deaf. So I clearly didn't choose it at all ! No one in my family is deaf, no one in my school was deaf... (I still knew deaf people, but not in my hometown, and even in my hometown) yet I have complicated relationships with many deafs because they think I betrayed the community. Whatever I am not here to tell my life but to prove a point. :lol:

So yeah at middle school, teenagers can be quite cruel, and yeah I've been called names in relation to my deafness. It hurt like hell. I was crying, I didn't understand why I was judged on that. OTOH I am perfectly able to turn what they said into jokes but with my family and my close friends. I have no problems making fun of myself, and I don't mind if my family and friends do that, because I know they don't mean it but are teasing me. I laugh with them, and they are not deaf.
But I can't accept that coming from casual people I don't know that well, from teachers, from unknowns... It used to be the thing that hurt me the most (not anymore, I just get offended because I think it's not okay and can disserve other peoples not me. Ignorance is the root of meanness IMO).

So I think black people can kinda relate to this, but with the N-word. :shrug:





OMG !!!!! What an asshole !!!!! :speakles: :speakles: Did you get to speak your mind? I would have ! This is so disgusting !!!!
Ugh, just. People. :hug:

I completely agree with you. But the users above me would say that your parents and close friends can't use those words because they're not deaf, even if they were saying it in a non hurtful way.

Do you not think it being used by Jay-Z and Kanye actually perpetuates it's use in the wider world? Certainly that seems to what happened in Paltrow's case.

It seems a weird situation to have songs where a segment of the audience is barred from singing parts of the song based on their race.

that was the point i was trying to make earlier. thank you for finding better words.

I completely agree with both of you.

Do you not think it being used by Jay-Z and Kanye actually perpetuates it's use in the wider world? Certainly that seems to what happened in Paltrow's case.

It seems a weird situation to have songs where a segment of the audience is barred from singing parts of the song based on their race.You make it sound like an innocuous word and totally remove the racist connotations of an awful slur like ****** when it comes out of a white mouth. Several of us in the thread have already explained to you the shame, humiliation, psychological trauma it causes when a white person says it, I gave an example of my professor saying it in a lecture and how it affected me. But you don't seem to care about that. Almost every black person has an experience of being called ****** by a white person, and half of the time it wasn't by some base racist, but by an actual friend who thought it was OK to say that to you. it leaves a definite psychological scar on you that you never forget.

It seems weird to me that a white person would want to say ******, knowing how hurtful and demeaning it feels for most black people to hear it coming from their mouth. Like I said, most white people I know who are hip hop fans just don't say the word, and they have no problem with that. Hell, even white rappers DON'T say the word.

You make it sound like an innocuous word and totally remove the racist connotations of an awful slur like ****** when it comes out of a white mouth. Several of us in the thread have already explained to you the shame, humiliation, psychological trauma it causes when a white person says it, I gave an example of my professor saying it in a lecture and how it affected me. But you don't seem to care about that. Almost every black person has an experience of being called ****** by a white person, and half of the time it wasn't by some base racist, but by an actual friend who thought it was OK to say that to you. it leaves a definite psychological scar on you that you never forget.

It seems weird to me that a white person would want to say ******, knowing how hurtful and demeaning it feels for most black people to hear it coming from their mouth. Like I said, most white people I know who are hip hop fans just don't say the word, and they have no problem with that. Hell, even white rappers DON'T say the word.
Right? Eminem grew up around black people and basically lives in that whole atmosphere, always have, but you don't see him throwing N words all around in his songs and everyday life, and then trying to justify its usage by claiming "oh, I'm friends with black people". :o

AND, why is it Jay-Z and Kanye's job to regulate what someone can and can't say? That is not their job. I don't see anyone saying placing any responsibility on Foster the People when talking about suicide/violence/teen murders. Someone please explain why it is Jay-Z and Kanye's job to make sure you don't say the N word?

You make it sound like an innocuous word and totally remove the racist connotations of an awful slur like ****** when it comes out of a white mouth. Several of us in the thread have already explained to you the shame, humiliation, psychological trauma it causes when a white person says it, I gave an example of my professor saying it in a lecture and how it affected me. But you don't seem to care about that. Almost every black person has an experience of being called ****** by a white person, and half of the time it wasn't by some base racist, but by an actual friend who thought it was OK to say that to you. it leaves a definite psychological scar on you that you never forget.

It seems weird to me that a white person would want to say ******, knowing how hurtful and demeaning it feels for most black people to hear it coming from their mouth. Like I said, most white people I know who are hip hop fans just don't say the word, and they have no problem with that. Hell, even white rappers DON'T say the word.

A word only has as much power as you give it. it clearly means a lot to you given your reaction to the word. I can't understand then why you would want to use the word in any context. As for the students reacting to niggardly, another indictment on the us educational system.

You make it sound like an innocuous word and totally remove the racist connotations of an awful slur like ****** when it comes out of a white mouth. Several of us in the thread have already explained to you the shame, humiliation, psychological trauma it causes when a white person says it, I gave an example of my professor saying it in a lecture and how it affected me. But you don't seem to care about that. Almost every black person has an experience of being called ****** by a white person, and half of the time it wasn't by some base racist, but by an actual friend who thought it was OK to say that to you. it leaves a definite psychological scar on you that you never forget.

It seems weird to me that a white person would want to say ******, knowing how hurtful and demeaning it feels for most black people to hear it coming from their mouth. Like I said, most white people I know who are hip hop fans just don't say the word, and they have no problem with that. Hell, even white rappers DON'T say the word.

So if you went to a Jay Z concert with a group friends, would you get mad at the white people for saying that word as you're saying it yourself?

Again, if you don't want people to say it, then don't say it yourself.
Oh and btw, why dont you type n****r without the stars? You're black so it should be ok, right?

It won't let you type the word ******.

A word only has as much power as you give it. it clearly means a lot to you given your reaction to the word. I can't understand then why you would want to use the word in any context. As for the students reacting to niggardly, another indictment on the us educational system.
There were people in my Graduating class using the word "Niglits" o.O Mostly IB kids. Why would they think that is even appropriate to say? What rapper has used that in their rap to convince these kids that it's okay to use it? I don't think any rapper has. People know the word is hurtful/offensive and makes people uncomfortable and angry, yet, they still use it. Even if it weren't being used in Hip Hop I'm still convinced its usage would still be seen. Once people have a reason, even if small and illogical, to justify their using the word they use it.

It won't let you type the word ******.

Well that option should only be there for white people. Too bad they don't have some super high technology machine to see what race you are.

-____- Girl

-____- Girl

What? You're black so therefor even though it's an extremely hurtful word, you can still use it.

A word only has as much power as you give it. it clearly means a lot to you given your reaction to the word. I can't understand then why you would want to use the word in any context. As for the students reacting to niggardly, another indictment on the us educational system.
This is not true. Most psychologists will tell you that slurs like ****** and other similar words are microagressions, and they definitely take a psychological toll on an individual. When I am with friends or family and choose to use the word, it is not a microaggression, its usually said in a loving or joking way. And as a black person, yes, not being called a ****** is important to me. Just like as a gay person, not being called a ****** is important to me too.

What? You're black so therefor even though it's an extremely hurtful word, you can still use it.
You're clearly missing the point.

You're clearly missing the point.

I don't think so.

I Just think that nobody should use the word, no matter what race.

I don't think so.

I Just think that nobody should use the word, no matter what race.
So no one should use curse words/offensive words because they're extremely hurtful?

So no one should use curse words/offensive words because they're extremely hurtful?

If a curse word is offensive to you, than you shouldn't use it. same thing.
For example, I don't take any offense when someone calls me a b*tch and I shouldn't because I always use that word jokingly with my friends.

If a curse word is offensive to you, than you shouldn't use it. same thing.
For example, I don't take any offense when someone calls me a b*tch and I shouldn't because I always use that word jokingly with my friends.
The nerve :lol:

So, you're basically saying because we use the word we shouldn't be offended when someone calls us it? Do you see the problem in that?! Your thought process seems basic and unrealistic.

So your friend calls you a whore lalalala it's fine, you're friends, whatever. Then you cut this person off on the road accidentally and they shout "watch where you're going whore"....you would interpret both of those situations in the same way?

The nerve :lol:

So, you're basically saying because we use the word we shouldn't be offended when someone calls us it? Do you see the problem in that?! Your thought process seems basic and unrealistic.

So your friend calls you a whore lalalala it's fine, you're friends, whatever. Then you cut this person off on the road accidentally and they shout "watch where you're going whore"....you would interpret both of those situations in the same way?

What if your good friend is white and calls you with N word? i guess you would be upset?


P.S. Before reading this thread i had no idea that this word is so offensive...

The nerve :lol:

So, you're basically saying because we use the word we shouldn't be offended when someone calls us it? Do you see the problem in that?! Your thought process seems basic and unrealistic.

So your friend calls you a whore lalalala it's fine, you're friends, whatever. Then you cut this person off on the road accidentally and they shout "watch where you're going whore"....you would interpret both of those situations in the same way?

No. What I'm saying is that if you're with a group of friends and all the black people are calling each other(and sometimes the non black people) the n word then if a non black person calls you the n word they shouldn't be berated.

Of course it is offensive when someone clearly says it in a hurtful way.

It's the same thing with whore or any other slur or curse word.

You make it sound like an innocuous word and totally remove the racist connotations of an awful slur like ****** when it comes out of a white mouth. Several of us in the thread have already explained to you the shame, humiliation, psychological trauma it causes when a white person says it, I gave an example of my professor saying it in a lecture and how it affected me. But you don't seem to care about that. Almost every black person has an experience of being called ****** by a white person, and half of the time it wasn't by some base racist, but by an actual friend who thought it was OK to say that to you. it leaves a definite psychological scar on you that you never forget.

It seems weird to me that a white person would want to say ******, knowing how hurtful and demeaning it feels for most black people to hear it coming from their mouth. Like I said, most white people I know who are hip hop fans just don't say the word, and they have no problem with that. Hell, even white rappers DON'T say the word.

I'm stricter than you about the use of the word! I'm saying no one should use the word! I absolutely understand the reaction of black people to the word, it is a rotten word. The bit I don't get is the degree to which some people's feelings change if it's said by a black person. So if a white person so much as sings along to the lyric = psychological trauma but if it's a black person says it, or makes millions from singing it, then it's all about artistic expression and love. It's that 180 switch that I don't get.

I'm stricter than you about the use of the word! I'm saying no one should use the word! I absolutely understand the reaction of black people to the word, it is a rotten word. The bit I don't get is the degree to which some people's feelings change if it's said by a black person. So if a white person so much as sings along to the lyric = psychological trauma but if it's a black person says it, or makes millions from singing it, then it's all about artistic expression and love. It's that 180 switch that I don't get.

Exactly. :worship:

I don't think anyone should say that word.

You all are not being realistic, not even slightly. I already said in an ideal world the word wouldn't be used, BUT....that isn't the case. There have been many accurate and acceptable comparisons/analogies, so if you still don't understand my view (and a few others) then that falls on your shoulders. I've shared my opinion and I stand by my opinion.

So if you went to a Jay Z concert with a group friends, would you get mad at the white people for saying that word as you're saying it yourself?

Again, if you don't want people to say it, then don't say it yourself.
Oh and btw, why dont you type n****r without the stars? You're black so it should be ok, right?I've gone to a Kanye concert with white friends, and I've gone to a Jay-Z concert with white friends, and I've gone to the Jay-Z and Kanye concert with white friends! :lol: They usually sing along with the edited version of the song, or if its an album cut, when the rapper says the n-word, they just omit that word and keep enjoying the concert with the rest of us. Because they're decent white people.

If you want to be a vile white person and say ****** with impunity, then thats your choice. The US is a free country. I'm just glad that I will never come into contact with you.

I'm stricter than you about the use of the word! I'm saying no one should use the word! I absolutely understand the reaction of black people to the word, it is a rotten word. The bit I don't get is the degree to which some people's feelings change if it's said by a black person. So if a white person so much as sings along to the lyric = psychological trauma but if it's a black person says it, or makes millions from singing it, then it's all about artistic expression and love. It's that 180 switch that I don't get.This is what I don't understand about some people. As a white person, you will never fully "get" a lot of things about what I experience everyday as a black, gay man. But your gross arrogance compels you to believe that there is nothing on this Earth that is outside of your realm of comprehension.

That notwithstanding, you don't have to "get it" in order to respect my feelings about it.

****** is just a word to you, you know its vile because thats what you've been taught, but its still just a word to you. As I tried to emphatically express here to seemingly deaf ears, ****** is the most vile, degrading and humiliating thing that a white person can say to a black person, and every decent white person that I know have no intentions of ever saying the word in any context.

What if your good friend is white and calls you with N word? i guess you would be upset?


P.S. Before reading this thread i had no idea that this word is so offensive...


Wowwwwwww.

Wowwwwwww.

Well it's not the whole world circles around black people anyway. Black people's history is not that commonly taught in some countries

Wowwwwwww.

A lot of people outside the US don't realize how offensive the word is. It's not their fault, they were never taught.

The N word though :unsure: :lol: That's really basic knowledge, but then again, I didn't grow up over seas, but I feel that most people generally know that the N word is one of the most offensive things you can call a black person.

Well it's not the whole world circles around black people anyway.¹ Black people's history is not that commonly taught in some countries²

¹ Really? I did not know that. :scratch:

² The N-word isn't covered in Black History classes.


A lot of people outside the US don't realize how offensive the word is. It's not their fault, they were never taught.

Hopefully they won't be forced to learn the hard way.

The N word though :unsure: :lol: That's really basic knowledge, but then again, I didn't grow up over seas, but I feel that most people generally know that the N word is one of the most offensive things you can call a black person.

What do you expect when it's in a large number of songs preformed by black people?
It makes people think the word isn't as bad as it actually is.

What do you expect when it's in a large number of songs preformed by black people?
It makes people think the word isn't as bad as it actually is.
I would hope you aren't that naive to really believe what you're writing.

People a lot of outright BAD things in songs, but you don't go around carrying out those actions just because you see/hear an artist do/say it. We are not children...there is no excuse.

The N word though :unsure: :lol: That's really basic knowledge, but then again, I didn't grow up over seas, but I feel that most people generally know that the N word is one of the most offensive things you can call a black person.

I don't believe a word of it. Trust me, at basic school levels people all around the world are taught about the slave trade and the civil rights movement as much as they are taught about WWII, the Holocaust or The French Revolution. Hell, even if people don't go to school, American culture is so pervasive and entrenched everywhere that you simply can't not now the significance of a word like that. Unless you grow up in some isolated village somewhere without tv or radio, in which case you wouldn't know the word in the first place.

This reminds me of someone on this forum saying something about people in the Philippines using that word as some friendly gesture, and that person being ok with it because those people don't know what it means. :help: I just shook my head knowing they were probably taking liberties and mocking them as some silly American while pretending to be naive enough not to know its true meaning. :help:

you guys should read this article
http://www.theroot.com/views/gwyneth-n-word-and-why-were-blame?page=0,0

you guys should read this article
http://www.theroot.com/views/gwyneth-n-word-and-why-were-blame?page=0,0I did. Now you should watch this video.
http://vimeo.com/43636793

That article didn't bring forth any new ideas that haven't been already stated/talked about.

I don't believe a word of it. Trust me, at basic school levels people all around the world are taught about the slave trade and the civil rights movement as much as they are taught about WWII, the Holocaust or The French Revolution. Hell, even if people don't go to school, American culture is so pervasive and entrenched everywhere that you simply can't not now the significance of a word like that. Unless you grow up in some isolated village somewhere without tv or radio, in which case you wouldn't know the word in the first place.

This reminds me of someone on this forum saying something about people in the Philippines using that word as some friendly gesture, and that person being ok with it because those people don't know what it means. :help: I just shook my head knowing they were probably taking liberties and mocking them as some silly American while pretending to be naive enough not to know its true meaning. :help:

trust me we didn't(at least i didn't and i'm(was) a huge geek), i mean we mentioned slavery but we never get really that much into the topic :shrug: and there is no way we can translate that word in Serbian.. and there are almost no black people in serbia, so why would we learn about their(yours) history anyway :shrug: (and i never even talked with any black person in my life cause i don't know any :shrug) and just to add i heard N word in movies quite a lot, i think, so i guess i got the wrong impression that anyone can use it :shrug:

trust me we didn't(at least i didn't and i'm(was) a huge geek), i mean we mentioned slavery but we never get really that much into the topic :shrug: and there is no way we can translate that word in Serbian.. and there are almost no black people in serbia, so why would we learn about their(yours) history anyway :shrug: (and i never even talked with any black person in my life cause i don't know any :shrug) and just to add i heard N word in movies quite a lot, i think, so i guess i got the wrong impression that anyone can use it :shrug:
That is truly sad.

I don't believe a word of it. Trust me, at basic school levels people all around the world are taught about the slave trade and the civil rights movement as much as they are taught about WWII, the Holocaust or The French Revolution. Hell, even if people don't go to school, American culture is so pervasive and entrenched everywhere that you simply can't not now the significance of a word like that. Unless you grow up in some isolated village somewhere without tv or radio, in which case you wouldn't know the word in the first place.



:facepalm:
Can't be arsed arguing with you. American history is not that of top priority in curricula in other countries.


trust me we didn't(at least i didn't and i'm(was) a huge geek), i mean we mentioned slavery but we never get really that much into the topic :shrug: and there is no way we can translate that word in Serbian.. and there are almost no black people in serbia, so why would we learn about their(yours) history anyway :shrug: (and i never even talked with any black person in my life cause i don't know any :shrug) and just to add i heard N word in movies quite a lot, i think, so i guess i got the wrong impression that anyone can use it :shrug:


That's exactly what I am trying to point out. Somehow mainstream artists using this word in songs might tone down the actually meaning behind it

trust me we didn't(at least i didn't and i'm(was) a huge geek), i mean we mentioned slavery but we never get really that much into the topic :shrug: and there is no way we can translate that word in Serbian.. and there are almost no black people in serbia, so why would we learn about their(yours) history anyway :shrug: (and i never even talked with any black person in my life cause i don't know any :shrug) and just to add i heard N word in movies quite a lot, i think, so i guess i got the wrong impression that anyone can use it :shrug:Well now you know. Don't say to any black person. :)

I did. Now you should watch this video.
http://vimeo.com/43636793

Very good response to the double standard "argument."

That is truly sad.

LOL. I don't find it sad. That's just how things are in Serbia. :shrug:

That's exactly what I am trying to point out. Somehow mainstream artists using this word in songs might tone down the actually meaning behind it

And when black people say that they're offended by it when it's said by white people, then why would anyone try to justify allowing white people to say it?

And when black people say that they're offended by it when it's said by white people, then why would anyone try to justify allowing white people to say it?

It's ridiculous to be offended by something, only when white people say it.

It's ridiculous to be offended by something, only when white people say it.

Not just white people, all non-black people. And why is it ridiculous? Because you say so? :confused:

:facepalm: I can't with some of you people.


But I find it sad that he/she hasn't even met a black person. Uhhhhh....

That is truly sad.

Why? What do you know about Balcans history for example? I guess almost nothing...


Well now you know. Don't say to any black person. :)

i never used it anyway , and after this i definitely won't :p



@MrProdigy555 I have seen them walking down the street and that's it, and there are 4 black guys from sudan on my faculty but they are not my generation and there are like 600 new students per year on my faculty..

Anyone with a little education where I live knows not to use the word ******. however I hear the Dutch version "neger" alot once someone refers to black people.

Though you can't blame anyone for using it when it is used so much in songs and movies.

Heard of the movie "Gran Torino"?

Clint Eastwood uses the N word often.

Anyone with a little education where I live knows not to use the word ******. however I hear the Dutch version "neger" alot once someone refers to black people.

Though you can't blame anyone for using it when it is used so much in songs and movies.

Heard of the movie "Gran Torino"?

Clint Eastwood uses the N wordt about 100 times.

Yes, and he was obviously using it in a racist way. :shrug: But Gwyneth is American. She's not ignorant to the meaning of that word.

But when we (black people) say that we are offended by it, then yes we can blame someone for continued usage.

@MrProdigy555 I have seen them walking down the street and that's it, and there are 4 black guys from sudan on my faculty but they are not my generation and there are like 600 new students per year on my faculty..

It's okay that you've never met a black person. I've never met a Serb. :shrug: But I have met a Croat. :p

I did. Now you should watch this video.
http://vimeo.com/43636793

I don't agree with that "honey" example he used.
The boyfriend and the random guy have a different relationship with women. However, Gwen is very good friends with Jay Z and her relationship to him isn't different just because she's white.
By your logic, Honey has a different meaning when it is said by a black person as opposed to a non black person, even if their relationship is the same.
Therefor, yes it is a double standard.

:facepalm: I can't with some of you people.


But I find it sad that he/she hasn't even met a black person. Uhhhhh....

Have you ever met a serb? Why do you find it sad?

trust me we didn't(at least i didn't and i'm(was) a huge geek), i mean we mentioned slavery but we never get really that much into the topic :shrug: and there is no way we can translate that word in Serbian.. and there are almost no black people in serbia, so why would we learn about their(yours) history anyway :shrug: (and i never even talked with any black person in my life cause i don't know any :shrug) and just to add i heard N word in movies quite a lot, i think, so i guess i got the wrong impression that anyone can use it :shrug:
Sorry but I find that hard to believe. In all those movies you never noticed that it was either only black people using it, or white people using it in a demeaning way?

:facepalm:
Can't be arsed arguing with you. American history is not that of top priority in curricula in other countries.


At what stage did you drop out? That might explain some things.

I don't agree with that "honey" example he used.
The boyfriend and the random guy have a different relationship with women. However, Gwen is very good friends with Jay Z and her relationship to him isn't different just because she's white.
By your logic, Honey has a different meaning when it is said by a black person as opposed to a non black person, even if their relationship is the same.
Therefor, yes it is a double standard.

Why isn't it different?

Also, here's how that guy's "honey" example is supposed to work:

The boyfriend is in a certain relation to the woman where it's permissible for him to call her "honey" whereas the random guy is not.

Black people are in a certain relation with one another where it's permissible for them to call each other "niggas" whereas white people aren't.

Even if we accept that meaning doesn't change, one is socially acceptable and one is socially unacceptable. :shrug:

Also, you've been a champion of the double standard "argument." Could you motivate why double standards are necessarily wrong. It isn't obvious to me that they are.

Have you ever met a serb? Why do you find it sad?

You do know that there's more black people on this planet than there are Serbians, right?

Have you ever met a serb? Why do you find it sad?
Being black isn't limited to one country of people/nationality....

I see you like drawing unfair comparisons :lol:

I don't believe a word of it. Trust me, at basic school levels people all around the world are taught about the slave trade and the civil rights movement as much as they are taught about WWII, the Holocaust or The French Revolution. Hell, even if people don't go to school, American culture is so pervasive and entrenched everywhere that you simply can't not now the significance of a word like that. Unless you grow up in some isolated village somewhere without tv or radio, in which case you wouldn't know the word in the first place.

This reminds me of someone on this forum saying something about people in the Philippines using that word as some friendly gesture, and that person being ok with it because those people don't know what it means. :help: I just shook my head knowing they were probably taking liberties and mocking them as some silly American while pretending to be naive enough not to know its true meaning. :help:

nope. i didn't learn about it in CANADA. can't imagine that being even a remote focus in the balkans...or india/china with 5 thousands years of their own much much richer history :lol:

nope. i didn't learn about it in CANADA. can't imagine that being even a remote focus in the balkans...or india/china with 5 thousands years of their own much much richer history :lol:

You never learned one thing about the slave trade?

I don't agree with that "honey" example he used.
The boyfriend and the random guy have a different relationship with women. However, Gwen is very good friends with Jay Z and her relationship to him isn't different just because she's white.
By your logic, Honey has a different meaning when it is said by a black person as opposed to a non black person, even if their relationship is the same.
Therefor, yes it is a double standard.OK, but like Novichok said, can you explain why double standards are necessarily wrong?

nope. i didn't learn about it in CANADA. can't imagine that being even a remote focus in the balkans...or india/china with 5 thousands years of their own much much richer history :lol:

You didn't learn about the slave trade in Canada? :unsure:

You didn't learn about the slave trade in Canada? :unsure:
:lol:!

You didn't learn about the slave trade in Canada? :unsure:
I'd hope so, since slavery did exist in Canada, and after it was abolished there, Canada became an integral part of the Underground Railroad. :lol:

:facepalm:

Anyway, all ill say is that people are right about there being a total lack of black history (American) in other countries around the world. Definitely not prevalent in the Philippines. And, yes, i got called variations of ****** every day (literally) by hapless Filipinos who listend to rap and didn't know any better.

Some did; most didn't. :shrug:

:facepalm:

Anyway, all ill say is that people are right about there being a total lack of black history (American) in other countries around the world. Definitely not prevalent in the Philippines. And, yes, i got called variations of ****** every day (literally) by hapless Filipinos who listend to rap and didn't know any better.
But, Canada?! :lol: Come on now.


**that is terrible, btw.

:facepalm:

Anyway, all ill say is that people are right about there being a total lack of black history (American) in other countries around the world. Definitely not prevalent in the Philippines. And, yes, i got called variations of ****** every day (literally) by hapless Filipinos who listend to rap and didn't know any better.

:awww: That tends to happen, doesn't it?

OK, but like Novichok said, can you explain why double standards are necessarily wrong?

It's called commen sense. I think everyone should be treated equally, you guys clearly don't.

It's called commen sense. I think everyone should be treated equally, you guys clearly don't.So me being offended by a white person calling me a ******, is treating the WHITE PERSON unequally?? :lol:
Are you all actually paying attention to what you are arguing?

But, Canada?! :lol: Come on now.


**that is terrible, btw.
No excuse for Canada, no. :lol: But the Philippines? Only the truly educated are aware and even then it requires some travelling outside of the country to truly understand. They barely know their own history and are inundated by modern American culture. So yeah, def a problem there.

It's called commen sense. I think everyone should be treated equally, you guys clearly don't.
How old are you? I truly hope you're very young and don't know any better. :lol:

Why isn't it different?

Also, here's how that guy's "honey" example is supposed to work:

The boyfriend is in a certain relation to the woman where it's permissible for him to call her "honey" whereas the random guy is not.

Black people are in a certain relation with one another where it's permissible for them to call each other "niggas" whereas white people aren't.

Even if we accept that meaning doesn't change, one is socially acceptable and one is socially unacceptable. :shrug:

Also, you've been a champion of the double standard "argument." Could you motivate why double standards are necessarily wrong. It isn't obvious to me that they are.

Because i guess she (just like me) wants to leave in a world where every person has equal rights no matter of his/her skin colour, sex preference , gender , religion :shrug:

So now, a white person not saying ****** is a threat to his/her human rights?
Amazing. :lol:

It's called commen sense. I think everyone should be treated equally, you guys clearly don't.

Our commonsensical view of the world isn't always the right one. Many facts about the world are counter-intuitive. Can you actually give an argument why double standards are wrong?

Would it be okay for me to address your mother as "mom" because you address her in that way? No it wouldn't.

You never learned one thing about the slave trade?

not in alberta that i can recall. elementary school focused a lot on aboriginals and their mistreatment by europeans though. i think canadians like pretending it never happened here since it was nowhere near the same scale as in the US.

So now, a white person not saying ****** is a threat to his/her human rights?
Amazing. :lol:

I don't think you got the point of what she means.

she means that its odd that black people can call other black people ******.
But when Asians/Latins/Europeans call black people ****** it's an insult.

I don't understand why a word you guys obviously take so much offense in doesn't matter when another black person addresses you with it.

So me being offended by a white person calling me a ******, is treating the WHITE PERSON unequally?? :lol:
Are you all actually paying attention to what you are arguing?

when did I ever say that? What I'm saying is, if you're in a group of friends and all the black people are saying "what's up n****r" and then a white person says it as well, that they should not be berated. Obviously they shouldn't be using the word, but yes, it's a double standard.

If you're SO upset by the word, then why do you say it? I'm more than positive that if black people stopped using the word so casually, so would white people.
Of course there will still be a** holes who say it, but you'll know that they actually mean it offensively unlike Gwens tweet and other non black people who don't mean any harm by saying it.

Because i guess she (just like me) wants to leave in a world where every person has equal rights no matter of his/her skin colour, sex preference , gender , religion :shrug:

Hmmm. Someone could still have the "right" to say the n-word but still shouldn't actually say it.

At what stage did you drop out? That might explain some things.
:facepalm:
Now you are accusing me of being a dropout.
I am done.

I just want to say you cannot expect countries where black people are minuscule of the whole countries' population (<1%) to have this part of history included in their history curricula. Just like I won't expect you to know anything about Japanese history

I don't think you got the point of what she means.

she means that its odd that black people can call other black people ******.
But when Asians/Latins/Europeans call black people ****** it's an insult.

I don't understand why a word you guys obviously take so much offense in doesn't matter when another black person addresses you with it.

You don't need to understand it, just realize that's how it is.

when did I ever say that? What I'm saying is, if you're in a group of friends and all the black people are saying "what's up n****r" and then a white person says it as well, that they should not be berated. Obviously they shouldn't be using the word, but yes, it's a double standard.

If you're SO upset by the word, then why do you say it? I'm more than positive that if black people stopped using the word so casually, so would white people.
Of course there will still be a** holes who say it, but you'll know that they actually mean it offensively unlike Gwens tweet and other non black people who don't mean any harm by saying it.Please, what world do you live in where white people are just pure, virtuous souls who never mean to offend? :lol: You make it sound like white people are so innocent and virtuous, who are genuinely confused about why they can't say ******. Black people didn't invent ******, white people created the word to demean blacks, and thats why they used it in 1700 and thats why they use it today. The word will never go away.

They know why its inappropriate and offensive to say, which is why decent white people refrain from its use. Like I said, its only the vile white people who find these social norms problematic.

Because i guess she (just like me) wants to leave in a world where every person has equal rights no matter of his/her skin colour, sex preference , gender , religion :shrug:

I'm glad there are some people who have sense in this thread.

Please, what world do you live in where white people are just pure, virtuous souls who never mean to offend? :lol: You make it sound like white people are so innocent and virtuous, who are genuinely confused about why they can't say ******. Black people didn't invent ******, white people created the word to demean blacks, and thats why they used it in 1700 and thats why they use it today. The word will never go away.

They know why its inappropriate and offensive to say, which is why decent white people refrain from its use. Like I said, its only the vile white people who find these social norms problematic.

I think you might need to learn a thing or two about reading comprehension. :facepalm:

I think you might need to learn a thing or two about reading comprehension. :facepalm:Yeah resort to a person attack when you get flustered. I won't stoop to your level though this time.
Theres absolutely nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. :)

I'm glad there are some people who have sense in this thread.

But is this a discussion about rights? No one here has argued that white people shouldn't have the "right" (whatever that means) to say the n-word. Only that white people shouldn't say the n-word. Do you understand the difference?

Many women have the "right" to have an abortion. That doesn't mean that it's moral to have one.

Just because we don't subscribe to your way of thinking, doesn't mean that we don't have sense.

You don't need to understand it, just realize that's how it is.


i never use words like fag,f****t(there are much more words in sebian language having similar meaning) in my vocabulary simply because i wouldn't like to be called like that, not even by my friends, so i don't understand why would anyone use the N word if it hurts you that much . just make her disappear :shrug:

i never use words like fag,f****t(there are much more words in sebian language having similar meaning) in my vocabulary simply because i wouldn't like to be called like that, not even by my friends, so i don't understand why would anyone use the N word if it hurts you that much . just make her disappear :shrug:

exactly. why is it so hard for you guys to stop saying it?

exactly. why is it so hard for you guys to stop saying it?The word won't disappear if I stop saying it, because white people will still say it.

I doubt black people with education use the word ******.

Dont see Barack Obama greeting his uncle: " hey ******"

Most white people dont use it and neither should black if its so offensive.

i never use words like fag,f****t(there are much more words in sebian language having similar meaning) in my vocabulary simply because i wouldn't like to be called like that, not even by my friends, so i don't understand why would anyone use the N word if it hurts you that much . just make her disappear :shrug:

Why can't non-black people just refrain from saying that word when we (black people) tell them that it offends us?

I doubt black people with education use the word ******.

Dont see Barack Obama greeting his uncle: " hey ******"

Most white people dont use it and neither should black if its so offensive.

You're right that hardly any black people say n---er. But some many (even very educated, intelligent ones) say "n---a."

:facepalm:
Now you are accusing me of being a dropout.
I am done.

I just want to say you cannot expect countries where black people are minuscule of the whole countries' population (<1%) to have this part of history included in their history curricula. Just like I won't expect you to know anything about Japanese history

It isn't Black History, it's AMERICAN History. You didn't learn anything about America in your studies?

I doubt black people with education use the word ******.

Dont see Barack Obama greeting his uncle: " hey ******"

Most white people dont use it and neither should black if its so offensive.

We don't know how Barack Obama is with his family members/what he is truly like in his personal life, so you need to stop.

Why can't non-black people just refrain from saying that word when we (black people) tell them that it offends us?Because it impinges upon their human rights, apparently.

I personally don't use the word "fag/fagg*t" because I just don't like the way the word sounds. BUT, that's my choice not to say it. I don't expect other gay/bi people to follow in my footsteps, because it's up to them if they want to make light of the word with each other.

Everything ain't for everybody.

Why can't non-black people just refrain from saying that word when we (black people) tell them that it offends us?

Because some people are just ignorant racist idiots.. but there is other group of people who get confused simply because they have no idea that this word is insulting and they can hear the word from time to time so they think that they can use it...

It isn't Black History, it's AMERICAN History. You didn't learn anything about America in your studies?


In my high school (I chose World History as my modules for 4 years, many didn't), I studied mainly 2 World Wars + France/UK/Italy + China + Japan + Cold War etc. American history was not in the curriculum.

In the very beginning years of my secondary school years there were lessons about history around the world, including the Ancient Egypt culture , and America etc, but it was VERY brief (IIRC it was just how the US came as a country, free from being a colony). And yes, the focus was mainly on Europe (World War I and II).

Our World history curriculum is a misnomer but I don't want to go into that (cause it's OT)

Very good response to the double standard "argument."

Not really. It only raises further questions about defining relationships.

Why isn't it different?
Black people are in a certain relation with one another where it's permissible for them to call each other "niggas" whereas white people aren't.

Your assertion is not correct for all black people, so don't attempt to speak for all of us. Even if it were, it suggests that there is an interracial relationship 'threshold' barrier that can never be overcome.

Hmmm. Someone could still have the "right" to say the n-word but still shouldn't actually say it.
Black people take note.

The word won't disappear if I stop saying it, because white people will still say it.

Why are you concerned about white people saying the word? This only makes bias lawsuit easier to prove ;)

Why are you concerned about white people saying the word? This only makes bias lawsuit easier to prove ;)
Its a free country, they can say what they want.
They just better not ever say it to me.

The N-word was a semantic power tool used by whites to demean blacks and categorize them as lesser human beings or animals.

Today, blacks call each other the N-word and reframe it in a positive context in a semantic effort to take control of the term and defuse its historical power over them. This struggle to infuse the term with positive connotations within the black community is implied and understand by the members of the group the term was historically meant to demean.

In other words, blacks who use the N-word amongst themselves are doing so with an unspoken wink and a smile that non-blacks cannot be a part of because they have no stake in the struggle to reframe the term. You cannot rob non-blacks of their humanity by calling them the N-word. Non-blacks do so every time they refer to a black person by the N-word

Its a free country, they can say what they want.
They just better not ever say it to me.
+1.

Not really. It only raises further questions about defining relationships.



Your assertion is not correct for all black people, so don't attempt to speak for all of us. Even if it were, it suggests that there is an interracial relationship 'threshold' barrier that can never be overcome.


Black people take note.



Why are you concerned about white people saying the word? This only makes bias lawsuit easier to prove ;)

It is a good response because it shows how certain sayings are acceptable depending on relationships. How those relationships are defined isn't crucial. Care to show how it is?

I was just explaining the guy in the video's reasoning. I didn't attempt to speak for all black people. It was a generalization in the same way that "birds fly" is a generalization. And please explain this interracial threshold barrier. :lol:

We have taken note and we still haven't been presented with a sound argument that shows why we (black people) shouldn't say that word. Care to provide one?

Yeah resort to a person attack when you get flustered. I won't stoop to your level though this time.

Says the person who immediately jumped on the poster after just her first post in the thread by saying she was blighted by "a white person's privileges" :spit:

If you stop trying to attack strawmen for just one moment, you might realise that most people in this thread aren't saying the want they right to use the word "******" unreseveredly, but in the case of a mainstream song called "Niggas in Paris", it's ridiculous to accuse white people who simply say the song's name of being racist and disregard the context completely :weirdo:

oh god, of course he attacks me :lol:

Says the person who immediately jumped on the poster after just her first post in the thread by saying she was blighted by "a white person's privileges" :spit:

If you stop trying to attack strawmen for just one moment, you might realise that most people in this thread aren't saying the want they right to use the word "******" unreseveredly, but in the case of a mainstream song called "Niggas in Paris", it's ridiculous to accuse white people who simply say the song's name of being racist and disregard the context completely :weirdo:

Who has done that? We know of the use-mention distinction. :) Gwyneth wasn't mentioning the word "niggas"; she was using it.

oh god, of course he attacks me :lol:

Yes "of course", because you're once again jumping on your high horse and accusing people of being racist with no evidence as usual :lol:

Who has done that? We know of the use-mention distinction. :) Gwyneth wasn't mentioning the word "niggas"; she was using it.

Yes. The context being a song title that uses the word.

yet again, projecting. :lol:

Yes. The context being a song title that uses the word.

Her tweet was "Niggas in Paris for real." "Niggas" is referring to Jay Z and Kanye not to the name of the song. It's a play on words but she is using "niggas" not mentioning it. :shrug:

Yes "of course", because you're once again jumping on your high horse and accusing people of being racist with no evidence as usual :lol:
Bitch, we haven't called anyone racist. :lol:

We are simply talking about the usage of the N word. :facepalm:

Bitch, we haven't called anyone racist. :lol:

We are simply talking about the usage of the N word. :facepalm:Exactly. :lol: I will not deign to engage these serious issues with a poster like him.

It is a good response because it shows how certain sayings are acceptable depending on relationships. How those relationships are defined isn't crucial. Care to show how it is?

Seriously? You just said the video shows how certain things are acceptable depending on relationships but you don't think defining the relationships are crucial. Ok...

We have taken note and we still haven't been presented with a sound argument that shows why we (black people) shouldn't say that word.

You are free to say whatever you wish. Glad you took note.

Seriously? You just said the video shows how certain things are acceptable depending on relationships but you don't think defining the relationships are crucial. Ok...


It is not crucial. If I say that A and B stand in a certain relationship to each other which makes it permissible for them to call each other "stupid." But it isn't permissible for A and C to call each other "stupid."

The only thing that is crucial is that the couples are in a DIFFERENT relation to each other. We don't have to define the relationship to a very specific thing. That's what the guy in the video did in order to show that some double standards are permissible. :shrug:

Today, blacks call each other the N-word and reframe it in a positive context in a semantic effort to take control of the term and defuse its historical power over them.

It apparently doesn't work given how strongly people react to Gwyneth (of all people) using the word.
And when a local petty drug dealer calls his gf 'nigga' in public, I doubt he is somehow on this noble quest to defuse the historical power of the n word.

It is not crucial. If I save that A and B stand in a certain relationship to each other which makes it permissible for them to call each other "stupid." But it isn't permissible for A and C to call each other "stupid."

The only thing that is crucial is that the couples are in a DIFFERENT relation to each other. We don't have to define the relationship to a very specific thing. That's what the guy in the video did in order to show that some double standards are permissible. :shrug:
It really isn't complicated. I don't know why some are finding it difficult to comprehend. -_-

Bitch, we haven't called anyone racist. :lol:

We are simply talking about the usage of the N word. :facepalm:

Exactly. :lol: I will not deign to engage these serious issues with a poster like him.

:spit: Um...

She's a Jew, so she should know better. Just like most of you are gay, and should know better as well.
But alas, the world is what it is, not what we want it to be. :lol:

It really isn't that difficult to understand, but then again....she isn't black. :tape:

I swear it feels like entitlement. :lol:

Thats all it is, entitlement and privilege. :lol:


This is what I don't understand about some people. As a white person, you will never fully "get" a lot of things about what I experience everyday as a black, gay man. But your gross arrogance compels you to believe that there is nothing on this Earth that is outside of your realm of comprehension.

If you're going to upset people by inferring they're racist, then don't try and desperately backpedal the moment someone calls you out on it.

Her tweet was "Niggas in Paris for real." "Niggas" is referring to Jay Z and Kanye not to the name of the song. It's a play on words but she is using "niggas" not mentioning it. :shrug:

:facepalm: I know YOU atleast are smarter than this.

One of the biggest Xmas songs in the UK, "Fairytale of New York", contains the word "fag*ot". Do you really think straight people self-censor the word when they're singing it? :spit: Of course not, because in the context of the song, it's not intended to be offensive, just like "Niggas in Paris" isn't intended to be offensive.

If you're going to upset people by inferring they're racist, then don't try and desperately backpedal the moment someone calls you out on it.

How these quotes show that Prodigy and Rex inferred that she was racist? Entitled and privileged, yes. But racist?

:facepalm:

It apparently doesn't work given how strongly people react to Gwyneth (of all people) using the word.
And when a local petty drug dealer calls his gf 'nigga' in public, I doubt he is somehow on this noble quest to defuse the historical power of the n word.Thats so weird, I've never seen/heard a man call his girlfriend (or any woman for that matter) a nigga?

How these quotes show that Prodigy and Rex inferred that she was racist? Entitled and privileged, yes. But racist?

If I said to a black person that they "wouldn't understand" maths BECAUSE they're black, you wouldn't think that was racist? :tape: