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View Full Version : "REAL Clay"/NON-RED Clay vs. Clay Specialists: NOT An Ideal Marriage


tennisbum79
May 17th, 2012, 04:01 PM
There have been lot of talk lately about the real clay, i.e. red clay on one hand, and non-red clay (green, blue, indoor clay) on the other hand.
With the exit of Sam Ssour today, the presumed current clay specialist and others, is it fair to ask the question whether these clay specialist have harder time transitioning from non-red clay to real clay?

Marcus1979
May 17th, 2012, 04:16 PM
well Justine was always able to transition from green clay to red clay pretty easily ;)

LightWarrior
May 17th, 2012, 04:20 PM
Stosur was just bad today so I don't think it has to do with switching to real clay. All I know is that Serena is struggling on red clay and seems to have the hardest time transitioning. Venus not so much. Go figure...

Marcus1979
May 17th, 2012, 04:30 PM
Stosur was just bad today so I don't think it has to do with switching to real clay. All I know is that Serena is struggling on red clay and seems to have the hardest time transitioning. Venus not so much. Go figure...

Venus has not won Roland Garros but has won more clay titles than Serena and has reached at least the finals on all of the major ones (Except for the new STuttgart event)

i.e

Rome lost Final 1998, won in 1999
Hamburg - Finalist in 2002, Won in 1999 and 2001
Warsaw finalist in 2003, won in 2004
Berlin finalist 2004
Madrid finalist in 2010
Amelia Island won in 2002
Charleston won in 2004

Wozzilroy
May 17th, 2012, 04:30 PM
All the surfaces have been adapted to the style of todays tour. There's no variation, or little of it in the way players are playing. For me that's why Henin was such a joy to watch with her style, single-handed backhand. Nobody now wants to take the time to develop their game, now it's just a dash for the cash. So the tour had done away with many tournaments and also altered the surfaces and tennis balls. They dug up RG and poured cement on it for the ball to bounce like hard court, Wimbledon have changed the grass and cut it different. They changed the surface at AO, heavens just look at what they did in Madrid. All this is because everybody plays at the back of the court. All this transition has been happening over the past ten years or so and the WTA have been hoping nobody noticed.

Sam Stosur clay court specialist? When I think of CCS, names that spring to mind are Evert, Henin, Martinez, Sanchez-V, Sabatini and the likes.

Marcus1979
May 17th, 2012, 04:37 PM
All the surfaces have been adapted to the style of todays tour. There's no variation, or little of it in the way players are playing. For me that's why Henin was such a joy to watch with her style, single-handed backhand. Nobody now wants to take the time to develop their game, now it's just a dash for the cash. So the tour had done away with many tournaments and also altered the surfaces and tennis balls. They dug up RG and poured cement on it for the ball to bounce like hard court, Wimbledon have changed the grass and cut it different. They changed the surface at AO, heavens just look at what they did in Madrid. All this is because everybody plays at the back of the court. All this transition has been happening over the past ten years or so and the WTA have been hoping nobody noticed.

Sam Stosur clay court specialist? When I think of CCS, names that spring to mind are Evert, Henin, Martinez, Sanchez-V, Sabatini and the likes.

They had to do that, on hot days the surface would get sticky and players were injuring themselves. Players such as hewitt had complained for years about rebound ace.

Wozzilroy
May 17th, 2012, 04:39 PM
They had to do that, on hot days the surface would get sticky and players were injuring themselves. Players such as hewitt had complained for years about rebound ace.

That's what they led you to believe. And whoever listened to what Hewitt ever said!?

Marcus1979
May 17th, 2012, 04:41 PM
Serena in 2002 injured her ankle at SYdney which forced her to miss the Australia Open, which is basically the same surface as Melbourne Park.

tennisbum79
May 17th, 2012, 04:50 PM
Sam Stosur clay court specialist? When I think of CCS, names that spring to mind are Evert, Henin, Martinez, Sanchez-V, Sabatini and the likes.
Allthose players are rtired now, we are talking current players and I thought that was the consensus on this forum that Stosur is a cly specilist?
Where have you been?
Or you want me to say she in a red-only-clay specilaist?
From what Kaz, her #1 fan says, that would be reasonable

Wozzilroy
May 17th, 2012, 04:59 PM
Allthose players are rtired now, we are talking current players and I thought that was the consensus on this forum that Stosur is a cly specilist?
Where have you been?
Or you want me to say she in a red-only-clay specilaist?
From what Kaz, her #1 fan says, that would be reasonable

Today? I was out for shopping at Asda. I usually go to Tesco because that closer, but last time I was there I had a lot of hassle over counterfeit voucher coupons, so I decided not to go back until I got a apology. Then I came home and had some tea with doughnuts and watched some tennis.

On the tennis matter
That's the point, there are NO clay court specialists anymore. Just as there are no grass court specialists anymore

Marcus1979
May 17th, 2012, 05:02 PM
Today? I was out for shopping at Asda. I usually go to Tesco because that closer, but last time I was there I had a lot of hassle over counterfeit voucher coupons, so I decided not to go back until I got a apology. Then I came home and had some tea with doughnuts and watched some tennis.

On the tennis matter
That's the point, there are NO clay court specialists anymore. Just as there are no grass court specialists anymore

Would Venus be classed as one? Her most recent slams have all been at wimbledon no finals at the other 3 since 2002/03

Wozzilroy
May 17th, 2012, 05:11 PM
Would Venus be classed as one? Her most recent slams have all been at wimbledon no finals at the other 3 since 2002/03

Venus puts more effort into Wimbledon for a start, once she gets a whiff of freshly cut lawn into her lungs she's a different person. She's a horses-for-courses player as far as Wimbledon in concerned. It's the same as many players go with the mind set they can't play on grass today, but they REALLY can if they tried, but they have a negative attitude before they even strike a ball

Venus could have easily won a few RG titles had she convinced herself to do so

dragonflies
May 17th, 2012, 05:17 PM
There are no such thing as "Clay Specialists" in the women game, as opposed to the men game. Female players don't have the variety of clay court game and ability to hit high top spin shots which is very important on clay ( Stosur is the sole exception and even she is not comparable to the men clay specialists in this department). The differences of the surfaces 's influence is overrated in the women game.




Top players are usually strong enough to prevail on all surfaces, including clay. Maria, Vika, Petra, Serena, etc... have been playing hard court tennis on clay with great results. Even "clay hatters" like Davenport, Kim did very well on clay too. Only a very few top players who have preferences for a specific surface would raise more on top, ie Justine on clay, Venus on grass. Non- top players who likes clay won't be strong enough to deal with top players who hate clay, Stosur - AMG- Sarra Erani,, LDL, Rezai, MJMS, etc... as opposed to Maria, Petra, Vika, Serena, etc...

aselto
May 17th, 2012, 05:19 PM
That's what they led you to believe. And whoever listened to what Hewitt ever said!?

90% of women's tour, just listen to what they shout after every goddamn point.:o

PetraReeMona
May 17th, 2012, 05:27 PM
Today? I was out for shopping at Asda. I usually go to Tesco because that closer, but last time I was there I had a lot of hassle over counterfeit voucher coupons, so I decided not to go back until I got a apology. Then I came home and had some tea with doughnuts and watched some tennis.

On the tennis matter
That's the point, there are NO clay court specialists anymore. Just as there are no grass court specialists anymore

:haha: :haha: :spit:

Tesco are erratic on vouchers - sometimes they take them and sometimes they won't. I had 6 vouchers to get 6 free bottles of Lenor. They would only take 1 at a time - so I went out and came back in again. Got 6 bottles of Lenor for nothing :devil:

Go to http://www.hotukdeals.com/all/deals/new - get some nice deals there.

Back to tennis

I agree with you, there are no clay court specialists, but I do think Venus & Serena are grass specialists of this generation, don't you?

dragonflies
May 17th, 2012, 05:28 PM
Stosur was just bad today so I don't think it has to do with switching to real clay. All I know is that Serena is struggling on red clay and seems to have the hardest time transitioning. Venus not so much. Go figure...




Serena 's " struggling on red clay" is highly exaggerating. It's more about her physical condition more than the " real clay" effects. Yesterday, Serena has body pain and played below par yet still able to outplay a clay counter like Petrova who was playing well and usually fired up against Serena. Today she crushed a " clay court specialist" AMG. For sure the Madrid's blue clay suits her game more being faster, but Serena can always do as well on "real clay" as on blue/green clay if she is healthy and motivated. 6 straight matches in a week span followed right away by matches in Rome without having byes as other top players did would do damage to her performances, especially with her style of play that requires lots of energy.

pov
May 17th, 2012, 05:31 PM
There have lot of talk lately about the real clay,
For me, it's not just the color but a surface that plays like the trad dirt. A super fast red would be more a "not real" clay than a bright blue that played just like RG.

Wozzilroy
May 17th, 2012, 05:44 PM
:haha: :haha: :spit:

Tesco are erratic on vouchers - sometimes they take them and sometimes they won't. I had 6 vouchers to get 6 free bottles of Lenor. They would only take 1 at a time - so I went out and came back in again. Got 6 bottles of Lenor for nothing :devil:

Go to http://www.hotukdeals.com/all/deals/new - get some nice deals there.

Back to tennis

I agree with you, there are no clay court specialists, but I do think Venus & Serena are grass specialists of this generation, don't you?

I don't think they're specialists per se, because of my firm belief in today's surfaces and the way the game is played. But they are without doubt two of the best of world class players of their generation, of which there are very few.

It's a bit of a CATCH-22, I know. If someone has won more slam titles at one venue than another. It's just like having a box of Thorntons Chocolates, no matter how many times you offer someone any of them, they always select their favourite filling.

And thank you for the link.