PDA

View Full Version : Buying into career of Victoria Azarenka, or Petra Kvitova?


Petronius
Feb 23rd, 2012, 07:50 PM
http://siusopen.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/azarenka-kvitova-610usp-epa.jpg

Last week on The Toss, Bryan Armen Graham joined to debate whether to buy the hype on John Isner. John McEnroe had talked up Isner after his Davis Cup win over Roger Federer, but in the end, the good and loyal BTB readers voted that Isner lacked the versatility in his game to be a serious threat.

This week, SI.com tennis producer C.W. Sesno joins to look at another debate about player potential. Victoria Azarenka and Petra Kvitoa are Nos. 1 and 3 in the world, respectively. They both have one Grand Slam title. Azarenka is 22 year old, Kvitova 21. They’re both pegged as the likely candidates to provide a little consistency to what has been a wide-open WTA.

Today’s Toss: Whose career are you buying from this point forward, Victoria Azarenka’s or Petra Kvitova’s?

Courtney Nguyen: First things first, are these two even going to play another match all year? Kvitova, who seemed destined for the No. 1 spot when this year began, hasn’t played a tournament since Fed Cup, withdrawing from both Doha (Achilles injury) and Dubai (illness). Meanwhile, Azarenka withdrew from Dubai on Wednesday, citing the left-ankle injury she suffered in the Doha semifinals. That’s her second withdrawal of the year after she chose to sit out of Fed Cup because of a back injury.

I suspect that Azarenka needed the mental break more than anything else (she’s flying home to Belarus for the first time since winning Melbourne). But these two keep dodging each other, which is probably why we’re debating this question. If they would just play each other this year, we could start compiling some data and get a more definitive answer. Then again, that wouldn’t be as fun.

If I had to buy stock in one of these two for the long haul, I’m all in on Kvitova. Put simply, she’s a world-beater. When she’s on her game, no one, except maybe Serena Williams (and, yes, I said “maybe” for a reason), can match her power off the ground or her ability to hit winners from any position. Kvitova can hit those winners off both wings and her serve will always keep her in matches.

On top of all that, I give her the edge in the mental department. That sounds like an odd thing to say when she has a well-documented history of losing focus mid-match, and when one of her two losses this year came after she had a brain cramp and chose to hit a slice forehand that sailed long on match point against Maria Sharapova at the Australian Open. But generally speaking, the big stage doesn’t bother her and she doesn’t seem intimidated by anyone. When careers are defined more by Grand Slam victories than rankings and Tour titles, that’s the factor that matters. Kvitova knows that if she’s playing well she can beat anyone in the world. I don’t think Azarenka can say that quite yet.

Victoria Azarenka blasted Maria Sharapova 6-3, 6-0 to win her first Grand Slam title and take over the No. 1 ranking. (Paul Crock/Getty Images)

C.W. Sesno: Basically this comes down to short-term vs. big picture. Azarenka is obviously hot right now. She’s 17-0 on the year and already has three titles. Kvitova closed 2011 strong and, though she lost in the semis of Sydney and Melbourne, she beat quality opponents in the Fed Cup, Sabine Lisicki and Julia Goerges. Pundits were bullish on Kvitova at year’s end, saying she was the real deal. Now just two months later, it suddenly seems Azarenka is the savior to fill the power void atop the WTA. The lack of a dominant figure in the WTA makes these debates fun, so let’s dive in.

I think you’re on point about Kvitova’s game. I see her as a regular in the top three. Like you say, when she’s on point, she can beat anyone. Thanks to Women’s Tennis Blog, we know that Kvitova had the highest winning percentage of top 10 players, against top 10 players last year, by far. Kvitova won 70 percent of her 20 matches against top 10 players in 2011. A world-beater indeed. But I’m not willing to go all in on her for a few reasons.

First, I disagree with you on her mental strength. Since we’re talking long haul, I don’t think Kvitova would handle the top ranking very well. She’s said that she just wants to play tennis and would rather not do the photo shoots, the appearances and promotional work that would be expected of her. You could look at that either way, but I think the spotlight crushes you if you don’t own it. Ask Ana Ivanovic or Jelena Jankovic. I’m sure Kvitova gets the top ranking at some point. But I see her continuing those spats of inconsistency we’ve gotten used to. Azarenka seems to fit the bill more: She’s a little cocky at times and doesn’t handle losing well.

Whether or not it’s mental, I’m not ready to say the big stage doesn’t bother Kvitova. They both won 14 Grand Slam matches last year, and other than 2011, we don’t have much more data to go on for the Czech. Kvitova made a good run to the semis at Wimbledon ’10, but Azarenka has been around longer and we know a bit more about what to expect. If she didn’t get the short end of the stick at the U.S. Open, drawing Serena Williams in the third round, Azarenka would have likely reached the quarters in three of the four majors last season. She slumped in 2010 to the point of nearly quitting — but reached at least the third round (including two QFs) in each Slam in ’08 and ’09.

For Kvitova, I just can’t get past her tendency to shut down at bad times. The average ranking of opponents who beat her in 2011: 36.5. For Azarenka: 23. And that average is worsened by Azarenka’s two losses to Serena, ranked No. 80 when they faced off the Toronto semis and No. 27 at the U.S. Open. Azarenka wins matches when she’s supposed to. Kvitova just isn’t quite there yet for me to buy big.

Nguyen: You and your numbers.

I agree with you on one thing: Azarenka drew the short stick at the U.S. Open and, really, the U.S. Open Series. Aside from her surprising second-round loss at Stanford to Marina Erakovic, she had the unfortunate luck of facing Serena in Toronto and New York, losing both times and failing to even take a set. That said, the scoreline of her 6-1, 7-6 (5) loss at the U.S. Open is deceiving. She gave Serena a fight, particularly in that second set. That was the first time she ever made me think that she had the goods to beat the player we all consider the best in the game. A little bit of luck in the draw and it’s entirely possible that Azarenka could have ended 2011 at No. 1, or at least gone into 2012 as the presumptive favorite to take over the top spot from Caroline Wozniacki sooner rather than later.

But as you said, these two will probably sit in the top three (or, at minimum, the top five) for years to come. What will separate them are the intangibles. Your note that Azarenka almost quit in 2010 is precisely the reason I give Kvitova the edge. While I think the idea of Azarenka’s being on the verge of leaving the game was exaggerated, the fact that the thought even crossed her mind is proof of her mental fragility. You’re telling me that she was a top 10 player at the age of 20 and she thought about quitting because she wasn’t having fun and she hated losing? If we step back and think about it, that’s pretty ludicrous. I agree with you that Azarenka probably hates losing more than Kvitova, and while that may translate to more competitive fire on the court, it also results in more frustration and dejection when things aren’t going her way. It’s easy for Azarenka to talk a big game and be cocky when she’s on a 17-0 run and just captured her first Slam, but what happens when she starts losing?

While Kvitova may go on losing streaks (she’s practically allergic to the North American hardcourts due to her asthma), let’s not forget that Azarenka’s body has gone on walkabouts as well. She retired or withdrew from seven tournaments last year. It’s only February and she’s already withdrawn from two events in 2012. Her body consistently lets her down in the most inopportune moments and she has yet to prove that she can withstand the grind of a full year.

You’re right, though. Azarenka wins the matches she’s supposed to win, while Kvitova is always prone to an early-round upset by random players (less than a year ago she lost in the first round of a Challenger event in Nassau). But again, if a player’s career is defined by her performance at Slams, I still back Kvitova. Azarenka may finish with more Tour titles and more weeks at No. 1. She has the consistency to win week in and week out. But when it comes to majors, Kvitova is the one who has the firepower and the mentality to win seven straight matches regardless of the opposition.

And here’s the kicker: I don’t think we’ve come close to seeing the best from Petra Kvitova. She’s a Grand Slam champion and No. 3 in the world and yet she has so many areas in which she can improve. Her movement, fitness, decision-making and consistency all can get better, whereas my sense is that Azarenka is, for the most part, topped out. I’m not saying the Belarusian can’t improve, but her upside at this point in her career is far less than Kvitova’s.

My opinion boils down to this: At their best, Kvitova is better than Azarenka. If Kvitova can learn to be at her best more consistently, this isn’t even a contest.

Sesno: So we’ve established the pros and cons for each player: Kvitova can beat anyone with pure baseline power but has tendencies to check out mentally in early and inexplicable losses. Azarenka, meanwhile, wins when she’s supposed to but hasn’t proven she can withstand a full season on the Tour.

But one key to your argument just isn’t sitting well with me: Is performance at Grand Slams really what defines a player’s career? It’s almost certainly the biggest factor the history books will look at, but definitely not the only one. I mean, is two-time French Open champ Sergi Bruguera looked at as a better player than say, Michael Chang, Carlos Moya or Juan Carlos Ferrero, who each had just one major title? No, we look at the overall resume.

So let’s say, hypothetically, Miss Cleo’s crystal ball shows six Grand Slam titles for Kvitova and four for Azarenka (perhaps even conservative estimates, given their age and the seemingly rapidly approaching post-Williams/Clijsters era). Azarenka currently has 11 WTA titles to Kvitova’s seven, so let’s say 20 more for each (less than three a season if they each play into their late 20s). I’ve stated my belief that Azarenka will log more time atop the rankings, so say she finishes her career with 55 weeks at No. 1, and Kvitova has 25 weeks. Who’s had the better career? Does Fed Cup come into play? Head-to-head record? I think one or two more Slam titles don’t outweigh weeks at No. 1, total WTA titles, and how they handle the spotlight. Love her or hate her, Azarenka commands attention both on and off the court. The bottom line is there is subjectivity in these debates, which is precisely why GOAT talks and the like are so divisive.

But we’re not exactly predicting who will finish with more accomplishments. I agree that Kvitova has more upside at the moment and probably hasn’t hit her ceiling yet because she’s still a relatively new face. I’m simply not yet sold that Kvitova will be able to consistently play at her best throughout her career. Kvitova still seems like an unknown commodity, which is why I’m more hesitant to go all-in. Sure, she can beat anyone on any given day. But she can also lose to anyone on any given day

And let’s be clear, I don’t think Azarenka has hit her ceiling either. But I do think she’s turned a corner in her career and we have better sense of what she can regularly offer because we have a larger sample size. After steamrolling Sharapova in the Aussie final, she looked to her box with a shoulder shrug and a ‘What just happened?’ look. She knows she can hang with anyone. Though she can struggle against the game’s big hitters (she’s beaten Serena just once in seven matches), her return game has improved drastically and she’s gained ground on the likes of Kim Clijsters (won previous two meeting and trails H2H 3-4) and Sharapova (won three of last four and leads H2H 4-3).

Clijsters intends to call it a career after the 2012 season to focus on her family. We’ll save Serena’s retirement talks for another time, but she’s now 30 and playing a reduced schedule (I chuckled at her official site’s schedule) and her days as an absentee threat seem numbered as well.

Someone will step up and fill the void. Perhaps I have a short-term memory, but my money’s on Azarenka.¨

http://tennis.si.com/2012/02/23/the-toss-buying-into-career-of-victoria-azarenka-or-petra-kvitova/

Young 8
Feb 23rd, 2012, 07:53 PM
Both

miffedmax
Feb 23rd, 2012, 07:54 PM
I went all-in on Vika in late 2008/early 2009 when I declared her the heir-apparent to the Sublime and Most Adored One.

And, as the fact that Alexa Glatch is still in my signature shows, I am loyal to the point of stupidity/insanity.

Vika then. Vika now. Vika forever. (But not as much as Lena.)

Excelscior
Feb 23rd, 2012, 08:02 PM
Yawn.

Good article though.

I just want to see them both playing matches again.

See ya'll (Vika and Petra) in the deserts of California.

Petronius
Feb 23rd, 2012, 08:03 PM
I went all-in on Vika in late 2008/early 2009 when I declared her the heir-apparent to the Sublime and Most Adored One.

And, as the fact that Alexa Glatch is still in my signature shows, I am loyal to the point of stupidity/insanity.

Vika then. Vika now. Vika forever. (But not as much as Lena.)

Good for you! May she bring you a nice return on your investment.

miffedmax
Feb 23rd, 2012, 09:19 PM
Good for you! May she bring you a nice return on your investment.

A Vika/Petra rivalry would be good for the WTA, I think. As that article brings out, they are two different players with different games and personalities.

It's a shame a lot of casual fans in some parts of the world will right them off as just another pair of big, Eastern European blondes because there's a lot to enjoy if you give them a chance.

And I'm not entirely ready to write off Martha, Aga or Caro yet, either. And who knows who's coming up?

This could be a good one if they can both hold it together.

King Halep
Feb 23rd, 2012, 09:31 PM
For Kvitova, I just can’t get past her tendency to shut down at bad times. The average ranking of opponents who beat her in 2011: 36.5. For Azarenka: 23.

Stopped reading at this point

King Halep
Feb 23rd, 2012, 09:33 PM
I went all-in on Vika in late 2008/early 2009 when I declared her the heir-apparent to the Sublime and Most Adored One.

And, as the fact that Alexa Glatch is still in my signature shows, I am loyal to the point of stupidity/insanity.

Vika then. Vika now. Vika forever. (But not as much as Lena.)

What you talking about, Jo-La is the next great one :yeah:

Jane Lane
Feb 23rd, 2012, 09:34 PM
http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/This+whole+meme+thing+really+confuses+me.+I+ve+see n+people+_2cb5a6f802edd717e7654c8b8e67ca70.png

miffedmax
Feb 23rd, 2012, 09:34 PM
What you talking about, Jo-La is the next great one :yeah:

It will take both Vika, Jo-La and then some to fill the Lena-sized hole in my heart. :sobbing:

Petronius
Feb 23rd, 2012, 09:44 PM
A Vika/Petra rivalry would be good for the WTA, I think. As that article brings out, they are two different players with different games and personalities.

It's a shame a lot of casual fans in some parts of the world will right them off as just another pair of big, Eastern European blondes because there's a lot to enjoy if you give them a chance.

And I'm not entirely ready to write off Martha, Aga or Caro yet, either. And who knows who's coming up?

This could be a good one if they can both hold it together.

I really enjoyed their last meeting in that Istanbul final. They both played very well. And they were clearly the best players of the tournament and both had also won a warmup event (Linz, Luxembourg).

Hope we'll get to see at least one or two matches between them this year.

Vikapower
Feb 23rd, 2012, 10:25 PM
Kvitova, who seemed destined for the No. 1 spot when this year began, hasn’t played a tournament since Fed Cup, withdrawing from both Doha (Achilles injury) and Dubai (illness)
Azarenka withdrew from Dubai on Wednesday, citing the left-ankle injury she suffered in the Doha semifinals.
But these two keep dodging each other

How are they dodging each other when they're either ill, injured etc... both at the same time or one or the other... ? States a fact contradicted immediately -- To be totally honest if someone had to endorse the responsibility of dodging in this rivalry, it'd have to be Petra who had the opportunity to meet Vika in what would have been their 2nd consecutive F (Sydney, after YEC) and 3rd in Australia. I hope Petra will keep progressing.

Your note that Azarenka almost quit in 2010 is precisely the reason I give Kvitova the edge. While I think the idea of Azarenka’s being on the verge of leaving the game was exaggerated, the fact that the thought even crossed her mind is proof of her mental fragility.

:lol: Lol no it's not anymore, Azarenka really progressed with her mentality evidently denied here.

But again, if a player’s career is defined by her performance at Slams, I still back Kvitova. Azarenka may finish with more Tour titles and more weeks at No. 1. She has the consistency to win week in and week out. But when it comes to majors, Kvitova is the one who has the firepower and the mentality to win seven straight matches regardless of the opposition.

True but again Victoria's new mentality is completely left out off the picture -- Victoria was steam-rolling Rena at will in Australian Open but just fell shot with her head/physique ; now it's a different story but apparently the author doesn't want to give her a chance to prove it in the upcoming majors... wait and see.

I don’t think we’ve come close to seeing the best from Petra Kvitova.

This is absolutely true -- people forget in Wimbledon for example Petra had lots of dips. That wasn't even close to being the 1/3rd of the best she can produce overall. In the future she should comprehensively make others understand what her very best is on grass because the amount of aggressive points she wins with her game on green is totally insane, unseen.

On the other surfaces it's clear her super-aggressive game is drastically much much less efficient but she's working an all-court game to compensate for that I suppose, I hope she'll reach safely to her objectives.

Azarenka is, for the most part, topped out

Huh ? Vika can progress at the net again (transitions etc...), with her defenses (slice etc...), with her physique, with her forehand (even more) -- she can also progress on her decision making/strategy (like using her backhand better down the line, droppers). The puzzle is all coming together -- Petra is already perfect and only need few adjustments here and there, they aren't even that big TBH.

At their best, Kvitova is better than Azarenka. If Kvitova can learn to be at her best more consistently, this isn’t even a contest.

Yes but Petra's super aggressive style of play is just impossible to maintain at very high level week in and out... too much lines etc... and also too much external factors wind etc... but she can be much much better at sustaining a level close to her best that's why she's intelligently working an all-court style of tennis to make her super aggression more sustainable on regular basis (net play etc...).

King Halep
Feb 23rd, 2012, 10:28 PM
It will take both Vika, Jo-La and then some to fill the Lena-sized hole in my heart. :sobbing:

Lucky Vika's chin does a lot of filling

miffedmax
Feb 24th, 2012, 01:32 AM
Don't make get all graphic about Vika again.

She's not sacred like :angel: Lena.:angel:

bobito
Feb 24th, 2012, 06:53 AM
And here’s the kicker: I don’t think we’ve come close to seeing the best from Petra Kvitova. She’s a Grand Slam champion and No. 3 in the world and yet she has so many areas in which she can improve. Her movement, fitness, decision-making and consistency all can get better, whereas my sense is that Azarenka is, for the most part, topped out. I’m not saying the Belarusian can’t improve, but her upside at this point in her career is far less than Kvitova’s.

This is perhaps the best point in the entire article. She's already made important progress this year. Last year it was very much a case of "when she was good she was very, very good but when she was bad she was horrid". Now it seems that when she is bad she still makes the semi-final.

I'm betting all my chips on Petra. Her "A" game is in a different league to Azarenka's and her "B" game continues to improve.

Petronius
Feb 24th, 2012, 08:22 AM
This is perhaps the best point in the entire article. She's already made important progress this year. Last year it was very much a case of "when she was good she was very, very good but when she was bad she was horrid". Now it seems that when she is bad she still makes the semi-final.

I'm betting all my chips on Petra. Her "A" game is in a different league to Azarenka's and her "B" game continues to improve.

Moreover, before Melbourne she missed about 10 days of training due to a minor injury she had picked up during the warm-up matches in December (during the tough match with Hradecka in the Czech league finals). As a result, during the Australian swing she was forced to rally more and could not rely on her all-aggression A game as much as she would have liked to. As you say, she still made the semis.

ElusiveChanteuse
Feb 24th, 2012, 11:18 AM
Both.:oh:

LUVMIRZA
Feb 24th, 2012, 11:35 AM
Both.:oh:

+1.

Mightymirza
Feb 24th, 2012, 11:49 AM
I prefer Petra :bounce: .. Shes all business no drama ;)..

Patrick345
Feb 24th, 2012, 11:55 AM
I wonder what fans of Evert/Navratilova, Graf/Seles did with their time, instead of having pissing contests on the internet. :lol:

pov
Feb 24th, 2012, 02:23 PM
Today’s Toss: Whose career are you buying from this point forward, Victoria Azarenka’s or Petra Kvitova’s?
Good thing that it's impossible to enjoy both players.

miffedmax
Feb 24th, 2012, 03:01 PM
I wonder what fans of Evert/Navratilova, Graf/Seles did with their time, instead of having pissing contests on the internet. :lol:

We had to argue face-to-face.

Of course, because we were much smarter (and better looking) and all the facts clearly backed us up, the Martina fans ALWAYS won the arguments.

The other thing was that you were usually talking to friends and people you played with, so the discussions (at least the ones I was in) were a lot less heated because you couldn't be anonymous and you could well be talking to your doubles partner or the person you would be sitting next to at a match.

My friends were very even along Chris/Martina lines. We all preferred Borg over the shithead.

King Halep
Feb 24th, 2012, 03:56 PM
I wonder what fans of Evert/Navratilova, Graf/Seles did with their time, instead of having pissing contests on the internet. :lol:

they had pissing contests in bars

Renalicious
Feb 25th, 2012, 12:16 AM
I think Kvitova will have the better career but Azarenka won't have a bad career at all. I'm thinking 5-7 slams for Petra and maybe 3 or 4 for Vika.

Brad[le]y.
Feb 25th, 2012, 12:21 AM
Petra, while inconsistent, will rack up more major titles. Vika will win less slams (3-4) but will be more consistent in the lesser events.

Stonerpova
Feb 25th, 2012, 12:24 AM
Azarenka will be more consistent, but history will remember Kvitova as the better player.

binky-GOAT
Feb 25th, 2012, 12:26 AM
None. They are both over hyped and won't win more than 2/3 slams each.

binky-GOAT
Feb 25th, 2012, 12:33 AM
I think Kvitova will have the better career but Azarenka won't have a bad career at all. I'm thinking 5-7 slams for Petra and maybe 3 or 4 for Vika.

:spit: Better players did not even manage to win that many slams

Charlatan
Feb 25th, 2012, 12:41 AM
Ask Navratilova

binky-GOAT
Feb 25th, 2012, 12:47 AM
I fear Kvitova will be the next Del Potro. Has one big GS performance where all her weapons are working and beats top players, everyone declares her the future, and then she loses to mugs and has injuries for the rest of her career.

But that won't stop everyone labeling her one of the big favorites before every major. :happy: Even though her movement and consistency are horrible. :tape:

C. Drone
Feb 25th, 2012, 12:52 AM
None. They are both over hyped and won't win more than 2/3 slams each.

and who exactly will win rest ~15 slams in the near future? Laura Rockson?
what kind of competition people see that will prevent them winning 5 or 10?

"facts"
old guards (Serena, Na, Stosur most notably) has no more than 2 years left at best on the top.
currently these two are miles ahead of their generation.
younger generations showed nothing extraordinary yet.
there is 19 slams til end of 2016, which year will be most probably the end of their peak years, but still only 27yo then.

then who?
Sharapova already their bitch in finals.
Radwanska their bitch everywhere.
Wozniacki at least 2 years behind developement, heading towards nowhere.
Lisicki just doesnt want to get bageled.
Pavlyuchenkova thinking changing sport.
Görges with one R4 so far on her career?
Zvonareva, Bartoli or Petkovic? really?
Kuznetsova who won 2 slams over 8 years?
Sucky Serbian Sisters?
youngsters like McHale? Robson? Next generation russian brats?
...

Jane Lane
Feb 25th, 2012, 12:54 AM
and who exactly will win rest ~15 slams in the near future? Laura Rockson?
what kind of competition people see that will prevent them winning 5 or 10?

"facts"
old guards (Serena, Na, Stosur most notably) has no more than 2 years left at best on the top.
currently these two are miles ahead of their generation.
younger generations showed nothing extraordinary yet.
there is 19 slams til end of 2016, which year will be most probably the end of their peak years, but still only 27yo then.

then who?
Sharapova already their bitch in finals.
Radwanska their bitch everywhere.
Lisicki just doesnt want to get bageled.
Pavlyuchenkova thinking changing sport.
Görges with one R4 so far on her career?
Zvonareva, Bartoli or Petkovic? really?
Kuznetsova who won 2 slams over 8 years?
Sucky Serbian Sisters?
youngsters like McHale? Robson? Next generation russian brats?
...

http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/Bless+_69f672a6e87ddaaeb48c0da2f0c71fd8.jpg

binky-GOAT
Feb 25th, 2012, 01:13 AM
and who exactly will win rest ~15 slams in the near future? Laura Rockson?
what kind of competition people see that will prevent them winning 5 or 10?

"facts"
old guards (Serena, Na, Stosur most notably) has no more than 2 years left at best on the top.
currently these two are miles ahead of their generation.
younger generations showed nothing extraordinary yet.
there is 19 slams til end of 2016, which year will be most probably the end of their peak years, but still only 27yo then.

then who?
Sharapova already their bitch in finals.
Radwanska their bitch everywhere.
Wozniacki at least 2 years behind developement, heading towards nowhere.
Lisicki just doesnt want to get bageled.
Pavlyuchenkova thinking changing sport.
Görges with one R4 so far on her career?
Zvonareva, Bartoli or Petkovic? really?
Kuznetsova who won 2 slams over 8 years?
Sucky Serbian Sisters?
youngsters like McHale? Robson? Next generation russian brats?
...

That is the same stupid, unaware of history comments made about the mens game.

Djokovic/Nadal will win every slam for the next 5 years blah blah blah :rolleyes:

Facts change all the time and nothing is set in stone. What is clear however is that the game has always been competitive and I see nothing special in these mugs :shrug:

Stonerpova
Feb 25th, 2012, 01:22 AM
and who exactly will win rest ~15 slams in the near future? Laura Rockson?
what kind of competition people see that will prevent them winning 5 or 10?

"facts"
old guards (Serena, Na, Stosur most notably) has no more than 2 years left at best on the top.
currently these two are miles ahead of their generation.
younger generations showed nothing extraordinary yet.
there is 19 slams til end of 2016, which year will be most probably the end of their peak years, but still only 27yo then.

then who?
Sharapova already their bitch in finals.
Radwanska their bitch everywhere.
Wozniacki at least 2 years behind developement, heading towards nowhere.
Lisicki just doesnt want to get bageled.
Pavlyuchenkova thinking changing sport.
Görges with one R4 so far on her career?
Zvonareva, Bartoli or Petkovic? really?
Kuznetsova who won 2 slams over 8 years?
Sucky Serbian Sisters?
youngsters like McHale? Robson? Next generation russian brats?
...

It must be nice to be able to predict the future :worship::rolleyes:

C. Drone
Feb 25th, 2012, 01:32 AM
It must be nice to be able to predict the future :worship::rolleyes:

IKR!? It so much easier than just calling them mugs.

Excelscior
Feb 25th, 2012, 02:08 AM
I fear Kvitova will be the next Del Potro. Has one big GS performance where all her weapons are working and beats top players, everyone declares her the future, and then she loses to mugs and has injuries for the rest of her career.

But that won't stop everyone labeling her one of the big favorites before every major. :happy: Even though her movement and consistency are horrible. :tape:

Right. :eek: :confused: :rolleyes: :confused: :eek:

Cause Kvitova (like DelPotro) won six tournaments in one year, the WTA/ATP Championship, Fed/Davis Cup Final, Madrid, had a 16-5 record against the Top 8 players in 2011, and made the semi-final of a major at the start of the next year (2012), while playing poorly? :confused: :tape: :confused:

OK. Bud. Their careers are really similar so far (especially since Delpotro is almost 3 years removed from his US Open, and Kvitova is months removed from Wimbledon), with no major injuries; knock on wood. :lol: :help: :lol:

Good wishful thinking, forecasting on your part though.

miffedmax
Feb 25th, 2012, 02:24 AM
Neither is an option. Bet it all on Larsson.

Brad[le]y.
Feb 25th, 2012, 02:26 AM
Neither is an option. Bet it all on Larsson.

after Jo-La wins RG this year, she'll be better known to all :shrug:

RenaPova
Feb 25th, 2012, 04:37 PM
I think Kvitova will have the better career but Azarenka won't have a bad career at all. I'm thinking 5-7 slams for Petra and maybe 3 or 4 for Vika.

Petra, while inconsistent, will rack up more major titles. Vika will win less slams (3-4) but will be more consistent in the lesser events.

This seems probably about right.

Also, I never knew Kvitova had asthma. Not her biggest fan (but don't hate her either) but her achievements are impressive considering that. :worship:

Sharapova isn't done yet either, I think she will keep working on her game and actually end up more consistent than both until she decides to retire, picking up a few slams along the way.

Serena certainly isn't over yet either and will win a few more slams too.

Clijsters most likely won't. I actually kind of like her game but she won 2 of her slams in a Serena-less draw and beat Venus 3 times in her 4 slam victories after Venus had leads in all of them (Which I think was Sjogren's syndrome hampering her rather than Venus choking). Plus you never know what would have happened if that foot fault wasn't called against Serena. Her only legitimate slam win was last year in the Australian Open even though she had a very easy draw. She was basically the equivalent of Wozniacki and Radwanska in non-slam events for slams. That said, I respect her as a player and she is good, but I hardly think you can call this current era the "Serena-Clijsters" era.

Venus may have a few more slams in her but we won't know how her body will hold until we see her playing more matches again.

SAFAROVA_IS_GOAT
Nov 29th, 2013, 01:58 PM
Kvitova :rocker2:

goldenlox
Nov 29th, 2013, 02:08 PM
They are both young. I expect they will both win at least one more major.
Its more interesting to see if Aga or Caro ever win a major.
Aga just missed a dream situation at Wimbledon. Caro was in 4 semis and one final, but now looks like she's dropped off.

OnlyTennis
Nov 29th, 2013, 02:30 PM
Kinda off topic, but comparing those 2 pics with today, Petra seems almost the same while Vika is so changed.

Orbis
Nov 29th, 2013, 06:03 PM
Seems like Kvitova's been really stagnant the past few years. Doesn't bode well for her. It sucks because even as a non-fan you know she can do better if she would just tweak/improve a few things. I mean she's still playing at a top 10 level, but it's really inconsistent and she's been having too many losses at slams to lower-ranked players. People also talk about her game being so powerful at its peak but she's always had a weakness; her return sucks...especially compared to the other top 10. That's why she's been having trouble with Serena and Sharapova since 2011, they can match her for serves so she can't just blow them away. I really want to see her get it all together and play like 2011 though, she's a marvel to watch at her best.

Azarenka, though...she's been very promising. She's shown she's a fighter who doesn't give up and she's got the game to beat anyone, including Serena. Now she's got 2 slams in the bag and I would be highly surprised if she didn't win more in the future. It's been a bit of an odd lull since the US Open, but I expect to see her back in form for Australia, where she usually does best. For now I'd definitely place my money on Azarenka rather than Kvitova, but who knows what the future holds? It's still only one slam separating them after all.

garwe
Nov 29th, 2013, 11:05 PM
I like Vika but not Petra very much (tennis wise), still i think Petra has the ability to make it much closer than it been the last two years in terms of success. Lets see in 2014, might be somewhat close.

outlier
Aug 19th, 2014, 08:19 PM
3-2 so far

honzaneumannn
Aug 19th, 2014, 08:27 PM
3-2 so far
In terms of only important titles, sure, Petra prevails. In terms of overall success, the exact opposite. So quite equal.

mauresmofan
Aug 19th, 2014, 08:27 PM
Kvitova because she has way better shots and ability than Azarenka and doesn't need to shriek to hit the ball much harder than her either. Azarenka is a grinder and therefore her game is built on consistancy and reading of her opponents game - Kvitova is an all court ball bashing monster capable of playing anything from the sublime to ridiculous in tennis terms but when she's on she's incredible to watch and her top level is much much better than Azarenka's top level but that said her mid level is poorer than Azarenka's because she sprays so many shots per match.

NewTFDavai
Aug 19th, 2014, 08:28 PM
I think Kvitova will have the better career but Azarenka won't have a bad career at all. I'm thinking 5-7 slams for Petra and maybe 3 or 4 for Vika.

Some people are so generous with those slams, like they are as easy to get as a Budapest cup

honzaneumannn
Aug 19th, 2014, 08:33 PM
Some people are so generous with those slams, like they are as easy to get as a Budapest cup
Petra with her up and downs has the best luck (unlike Mandlikova with only 4 slams) not being a part of a dominance era of some unbeatable player (Martina, Stefi, prime Serena and Venus). Thanks to that, she can get some 4 slams, but dont think, more. And would not be surprised, if these only 4 slams were only wimby crowns. A bit one-dimensional, but AUS too hot, NY too humid and Paris too slow, so the real chance always comes with Wimby.

Jimmie48
Aug 19th, 2014, 08:35 PM
3-2 so far

Why exactly are you so pressed that you feel the need to bump a year-old thread just for this?

honzaneumannn
Aug 19th, 2014, 08:38 PM
Why exactly are you so pressed that you feel the need to bump a year-old thread just for this?
Vika is out this season due to unhealed injury, which can always happen to some player with Petra eventually not being an exception. Vika in her prime was rock-solid. Maybe not that impressive, but much more consistent being able to compete with Serena. She has my credit. Her screeking sounds like a cheap porno, but Petras pterodactil-like "pojd" isnt much better.

Jimmie48
Aug 19th, 2014, 08:42 PM
Vika is out this season, which can always happen to some player with Petra eventually not being an exception.

Agreed, she is. Which makes outliers obsession with ranking Petra's accomplishments higher even more absurd.

Unless Vika's making some miracle recovery from her injuries quite soon, Petra stands a decent chance to surpass her anyways. So I'm not really sure why this needs to be forced now.

honzaneumannn
Aug 19th, 2014, 08:46 PM
Agreed, she is. Which makes outliers obsession with ranking Petra's accomplishments higher even more absurd.

Unless Vika's making some miracle recovery from her injuries quite soon, Petra stands a decent chance to surpass her anyways. So I'm not really sure why this needs to be forced now.
Petras only chance are Wimbys. Vikas only chance is Sharapova scenario - not playing for a half year at all and then coming back as strong as possible. Those attempts in a "already possible or still not"-mode are not much clever. She surely wants it more than her body is able to accept. But she surely didnt say her last word...

NewTFDavai
Aug 19th, 2014, 08:50 PM
The fact that Vika can't beat Aga anymore is very alarming for me.

Hilazza47
Aug 19th, 2014, 09:17 PM
The fact that Vika can't beat Aga anymore is very alarming for me.

Vika is stuggling against everyone and people she shouldn't be struggling against.

Apparently she didn't want to have surgery on her foot or whatever was hurting her. She wanted to do it naturally. But there is also a risk with that. Honestly i think vika will have the better career. The fact that vika has shown consistency for the last 2 years makes me believe she will surpass petra. Petra is to up an down. And bairly even a factor at 3 of the slams any more while Healthy vika is a threat at both Hardcourt slams and Rg. Vika could have been on 4 slams by now.

mac47
Aug 19th, 2014, 10:19 PM
Stick a fork in Vika. She's done, thank God.

Kvitova's good technique and less strenuous game should give her a long career.

Roookie
Aug 19th, 2014, 10:27 PM
I hate her but Azarenka has the better career and I dont think its close. She's been number one and for a period of time has dominated the tour. Not to mention has important wins over Serena and Maria. Petra is a one surface wonder and has a poor record against the elite.

outlier
Aug 19th, 2014, 11:05 PM
^Petra as the "one surface wonder" has won Tier I clay and hard court tournaments. Azarenka has neither clay, nor grass Tier I+ title. Get your facts straight.

Silent Bird
Aug 22nd, 2014, 11:22 PM
Petra of course. Radek > RedFoo

centipede
Aug 22nd, 2014, 11:44 PM
Remember when Kvitova beat Vika on every surface in 2011 :oh:

coolfish1103
Aug 23rd, 2014, 01:41 AM
Kvitova ;)

VarsityPUG
Aug 23rd, 2014, 01:42 AM
Petra has two Wimbledons and yet you're never going to see her face in American TV commercials, talk about a marketing flop.

I like her as a player though.

garwe
Aug 23rd, 2014, 01:49 AM
Can they finally meet now? Kvitova is the favorite right now, but i bet one of them will be out before R4.

hien88
Aug 23rd, 2014, 02:15 AM
quite surprising they haven't played against each other since 2011