PDA

View Full Version : Henin's unusual U.S Open record- feast or famine


justineheninfan
Feb 21st, 2012, 01:36 AM
What was it that caused Henin's U.S Open record to be so extreme. She played 8 U.S Opens from 2000 onwards and she won 2 titles both in spectacular fashion (one through sheer and utter dominance, the other through amazing war of attrition and coming from an all time great match), 1 other final, and 5 round of 16 defeats. Nothing in between, no other finals, semis, or quarterfinals. Is it just coincidence or is there something to that.

sammy01
Feb 21st, 2012, 01:51 AM
she was never that great on fast hardcourts, but she had times in her career where she was just playing such good tennis she could win on any surface. not surprising her 3 best years 2003, 2006 and 2007 were the 3 years she went her deepest at the us open.

thrust
Feb 21st, 2012, 02:00 AM
04 and 05 were bad years for her as she was recovering from the virus which ruined most of 04 and other injuries in 05. Actually,05 was sort of a comeback year for her

dsanders06
Feb 21st, 2012, 02:01 AM
I don't think it's anything to do with the surface - on the contrary I think quick hardcourts were her 2nd-best surface. Obviously clay was her best simply because she was such a better mover naturally on that surface than anyone else, but I felt when she was going for her all-out aggressive tennis that it was better suited to the quicker hardcourts than the slower ones, because her forehand even at it's fearsome 2007 best could sometimes break down in long rallies.

I think her patchy US Open record is simply more because of its position in the season, at such a late point at a time where she, as someone more injury-prone than the average top 10er, was likely to be struggling a bit physically (I'm thinking of 2005 especially here, even 2006 to some extent where she played bad the whole tournament despite making the final).

bobito
Feb 21st, 2012, 02:06 AM
From 2003 onwards she made the final 3 out of 5 visits. In 03 she had just come back after the virus and was far from full strength so that leaves only one bad outing once she had reached her peak, 4th round in 05. Not a bad record really.

MH0861
Feb 21st, 2012, 02:29 AM
That 05 match was pretty top notch from Mary, too. No shame losing to her there. She was playing with no pressure since it was only a R16 and not a final :lol:

justineheninfan
Feb 21st, 2012, 03:11 AM
I don't think it's anything to do with the surface - on the contrary I think quick hardcourts were her 2nd-best surface. Obviously clay was her best simply because she was such a better mover naturally on that surface than anyone else, but I felt when she was going for her all-out aggressive tennis that it was better suited to the quicker hardcourts than the slower ones, because her forehand even at it's fearsome 2007 best could sometimes break down in long rallies.

I think her patchy US Open record is simply more because of its position in the season, at such a late point at a time where she, as someone more injury-prone than the average top 10er, was likely to be struggling a bit physically (I'm thinking of 2005 especially here, even 2006 to some extent where she played bad the whole tournament despite making the final).

I thought in 2006 she looked in excellent form until her quarterfinal with Davenport. I believe she sustained or atleast agravated a shoulder injury during that match, she began getting it worked on and was grimacing towards the end of the match, and that led to her atrocious semifinal performance vs Jankovic. In the final vs Sharapova she played somewhat better, but was still struggling with her serve imparticular, and it was likely due to the shoulder.

Moveyourfeet
Feb 21st, 2012, 03:39 AM
That 05 match was pretty top notch from Mary, too. No shame losing to her there. She was playing with no pressure since it was only a R16 and not a final :lol:

lol. She was out for revenge after Henin ANNIHILATED her in the Roland Garros final earlier that year :lol:

Taz Warrior
Feb 21st, 2012, 10:32 AM
It’s not like she lost to bad players in those seasons either – Davenport during her peak period in 2000, Serena in 2001, Hantuchova in 2002 who was having her best year, Petrova in 2004 when she was recovering from the virus and Pierce in 2005 who was having a resurgence at the time.

Apoleb
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:04 AM
It very much had to do with the surface. She was vulnerable for getting overpowered on the backhand because of the fancy stroke production, and it wasn't a sustainable shot in long high intensity flat rallies. On rebound ace, she had more time to set up her backhand. Which is why her matches with Crapova in 2006 played completely different - in the AO, it was the backhand that was opening up the court for her while in the USO it was the forehand that was doing any damage and she was always late on the backhand. 2006 USO Justine was mediocre and was lucky to make the final. 2007 was obviously something else.

The Dawntreader
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:46 AM
People forget how completely wiped out Henin was after her gruelling clay-court scheduling in 2005. She looked totally lightweight against Pierce, being put on the defensive consistently and her backhand taking a real battering. This could always happen to Henin if she wasn't at an optimum level on fast hardcourts. Sharapova looked blatantly more heavy off the ground, and Henin's general length and weight of shot looked below-par.

It's no coincidence that she was so dominant at the USO 2007, playing the most focused, daring tennis of her career.

thrust
Feb 21st, 2012, 12:34 PM
I thought in 2006 she looked in excellent form until her quarterfinal with Davenport. I believe she sustained or atleast agravated a shoulder injury during that match, she began getting it worked on and was grimacing towards the end of the match, and that led to her atrocious semifinal performance vs Jankovic. In the final vs Sharapova she played somewhat better, but was still struggling with her serve imparticular, and it was likely due to the shoulder.

TRUE. Until the semifinals in 06 Justine had very few double faults. In that match against Jelena she had more double faults than she had in all her previous matches. I would say that Justine's two USO wins were perhaps the best of her career. Certainly two of her very best.

justineheninfan
Feb 21st, 2012, 03:08 PM
It’s not like she lost to bad players in those seasons either – Davenport during her peak period in 2000, Serena in 2001, Hantuchova in 2002 who was having her best year, Petrova in 2004 when she was recovering from the virus and Pierce in 2005 who was having a resurgence at the time.

The 2002, 2004, and 2005 defeats were all surprising IMO. The 2004 and 2005 ones even moreso for how one sided they were. The 2005 loss to Pierce was one of her worst performances. Yes Mary played extremely well, but Henin had 10 double faults in a relatively short 2 set match.

Sammo
Feb 21st, 2012, 04:13 PM
Irrelevant.

Stonerpova
Feb 21st, 2012, 04:24 PM
Interesting stat.

She won with mental strength more than tennis in 03. She was coming off that illness in 04 and she came up against an on-fire Petrova. She didn't play very well on hard-courts in general in 05, plus Pierce was dynamite that day. 06 she had a great year but was beaten by a better player on the day, and 07 she was damn near unbeatable.

Nicolás89
Feb 21st, 2012, 05:04 PM
A more interesting question would be, would she had all of her trophies at RG if her main rivals say Clijsters, Serena, Venus, Davenport, Mauresmo, Pova and Legend could really deliver at Paris? Me thinks not. :oh:

hingisGOAT
Feb 21st, 2012, 05:52 PM
A more interesting question would be, would she had all of her trophies at RG if her main rivals say Clijsters, Serena, Venus, Davenport, Mauresmo, Pova and Legend could really deliver at Paris? Me thinks not. :oh:

I was just thinking something similar... how LUCKY la main de valtrex was to win 2 US Opens. Hingis, for example, only won 1 US Open but made 6 straight semifinals from 1996 to 2001, compared to Henin's career 3. So in addition to being better at Oz & SW19, Hingis was better @ the US Open (and the YEC, and Miami), she just had to play Graf or Serena, whereas Henin had the fortune of playing Clijsters, Kuznetsova, Jankovic in her US Open runs :spit: The difference in the level of competition was drastic.

This of course begs the question, how could she be considered greater than Hingis, when Hingis out-performed her at literally every big tournament except RG?

T_P
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:03 PM
I was just thinking something similar... how LUCKY la main de valtrex was to win 2 US Opens. Hingis, for example, only won 1 US Open but made 6 straight semifinals from 1996 to 2001, compared to Henin's career 3. So in addition to being better at Oz & SW19, Hingis was better @ the US Open (and the YEC, and Miami), she just had to play Graf or Serena, whereas Henin had the fortune of playing Clijsters, Kuznetsova, Jankovic in her US Open runs :spit: The difference in the level of competition was drastic.

This of course begs the question, how could she be considered greater than Hingis, when Hingis out-performed her at literally every big tournament except RG?

How convenient you left out Justine beat Serena and Venus in 2007 and played one of the best women's matches ever against Capriati in 2003 :lol:

young_gunner913
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:04 PM
Let's talk about her Wimbledon record.

Linguae^
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:05 PM
Now I see she lost to Kapros at the FO in 2002, really weird.

justineheninfan
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:14 PM
A more interesting question would be, would she had all of her trophies at RG if her main rivals say Clijsters, Serena, Venus, Davenport, Mauresmo, Pova and Legend could really deliver at Paris? Me thinks not. :oh:

Considering Henin of 2005-2007 would crush all of those players on clay, and did have to beat Serena and Kim to win her first in 2003, the obvious answer is YES. Most of those were probably too scared to even play Henin at Roland Garros so made the event an afterthought once she began her dominance there. A wise choice on their part.

justineheninfan
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:20 PM
I was just thinking something similar... how LUCKY la main de valtrex was to win 2 US Opens. Hingis, for example, only won 1 US Open but made 6 straight semifinals from 1996 to 2001, compared to Henin's career 3. So in addition to being better at Oz & SW19, Hingis was better @ the US Open (and the YEC, and Miami), she just had to play Graf or Serena, whereas Henin had the fortune of playing Clijsters, Kuznetsova, Jankovic in her US Open runs :spit: The difference in the level of competition was drastic.

This of course begs the question, how could she be considered greater than Hingis, when Hingis out-performed her at literally every big tournament except RG?

The really lucky one is Hingis who managed her only non Australian slams in possibly the second worst year in tennis history (after 2011) in 1997. Her U.S Open competition was a joke, U Haul 200 pound version of Davenport in her first ever slam semifinal and baby Venus who was ranked about #30 in the World at the time and despite enormous improvements the next 2 years wouldnt make another slam final for another 3 years. Henin had much tougher competition than that to win both her U.S Opens, and reach her other final there.

As for Hingis's competition even when she reached her other 2 finals there who was it:

Davenport- who Henin never lost to after 2002
200 pound post stabbing Seles
Novotna
Capriati- another of Henin's bitches
pre prime Venus- reached 1 slam final from 97-99
baby Serena- reached 1 slam final from 97-July 2001

Incredibly scary. You are also the one who claimed (and I even as Henin fan completely disagreed) that Serena was super lucky Henin retired as Henin was owning her and would have continued to after breaking out of her temporary slump, yet now you are turning around and talking as if Serena would roll over Henin anywhere. You contradict yourself almost as much as Matt. Whatever favors an argument to put down all of Hingis's superiors at a given moment and convince yourself of your "Hingis is the GOAT" fantasy. :lol:

Next will probably be your argument to how Hingis is superior to Graf who is 7-2 vs her, has 22 slams to 5 for Hingis, and who won most of their matches when Graf was 29-30 post surgery and Hingis was at her peak. That should be a good one.

PetraReeMona
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:21 PM
Let's talk about her Wimbledon record.

And then let's talk about Mattek-Sands singles grand slam record :D

Oh, we can't ..... because there isn't one :happy:

PetraReeMona
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:24 PM
The really lucky one is Hingis who managed her only non Australian slams in possibly the second worst year in tennis history (after 2011) in 1997. Her U.S Open competition was a joke, U Haul 200 pound version of Davenport in her first ever slam semifinal and baby Venus who was ranked about #30 in the World at the time and despite enormous improvements the next 2 years wouldnt make another slam final for another 3 years. Henin had much tougher competition than that to win both her U.S Opens, and reach her other final there.

As for Hingis's competition even when she reached her other 2 finals there who was it:

Davenport- who Henin never lost to after 2002
200 pound post stabbing Seles
Novotna
Capriati- another of Henin's bitches
pre prime Venus- reached 1 slam final from 97-99
baby Serena- reached 1 slam final from 97-July 2001

Incredibly scary. You are also the one who claimed (and I even as Henin fan completely disagreed) that Serena was super lucky Henin retired as Henin was owning her and would have continued to after breaking out of her temporary slump, yet now you are turning around and talking as if Serena would roll over Henin anywhere. You contradict yourself almost as much as Matt. Whatever favors an argument to put down all of Hingis's superiors at a given moment and convince yourself of your "Hingis is the GOAT" fantasy. :lol:

Next will probably be your argument to how Hingis is superior to Graf who is 7-2 vs her, has 22 slams to 5 for Hingis, and who won most of their matches when Graf was 29-30 post surgery and Hingis was at her peak. That should be a good one.


Owned :oh:

hingisGOAT
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:27 PM
You are also the one who claimed (and I even as Henin fan completely disagreed) that Serena was super lucky Henin retired as Henin was owning her, now you are turning around and talking as if Serena would roll over Henin anywhere.

Well there is a HUGE (literally & metaphorically speaking) difference between Serena of 99 to 03, and Serena of 2k6 onwards. Serena would have rolled over Henin anywhere (except clay) had she been in the kind of form and shape she was when she played Hingis those two times @ AA Stadium. However, as fortune would favor les herpes, Serena would NOT play in 2003, and would not be ANYWHERE near that form in 06 or 07.

So yes, FAT Serena is VERY lucky that Henin (and Hingis, and Kim) retired (all her rivals retired early!). However, Serena in peak physical condition would have smacked les herpes aside just like everyone else did @ the USO.

young_gunner913
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:27 PM
And then let's talk about Mattek-Sands singles grand slam record :D

Oh, we can't ..... because there isn't one :happy:

I'm sorry but who are you?

PetraReeMona
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:33 PM
I'm sorry but who are you?

What do you mean who am I? Are you flirting with me :confused:

I'm a poster on this board and a Petra Kvitova fan, but I've seen most of your derogatory posts regarding a lot of players and I just thought I'd give it back to you. :lol:

Who are you?

Moveyourfeet
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:34 PM
I was just thinking something similar... how LUCKY la main de valtrex was to win 2 US Opens. Hingis, for example, only won 1 US Open but made 6 straight semifinals from 1996 to 2001, compared to Henin's career 3. So in addition to being better at Oz & SW19, Hingis was better @ the US Open (and the YEC, and Miami), she just had to play Graf or Serena, whereas Henin had the fortune of playing Clijsters, Kuznetsova, Jankovic in her US Open runs :spit: The difference in the level of competition was drastic.

This of course begs the question, how could she be considered greater than Hingis, when Hingis out-performed her at literally every big tournament except RG?

The really lucky one is Hingis who managed her only non Australian slams in possibly the second worst year in tennis history (after 2011) in 1997. Her U.S Open competition was a joke, U Haul 200 pound version of Davenport in her first ever slam semifinal and baby Venus who was ranked about #30 in the World at the time and despite enormous improvements the next 2 years wouldnt make another slam final for another 3 years. Henin had much tougher competition than that to win both her U.S Opens, and reach her other final there.

As for Hingis's competition even when she reached her other 2 finals there who was it:

Davenport- who Henin never lost to after 2002
200 pound post stabbing Seles
Novotna
Capriati- another of Henin's bitches
pre prime Venus- reached 1 slam final from 97-99
baby Serena- reached 1 slam final from 97-July 2001

Incredibly scary. You are also the one who claimed (and I even as Henin fan completely disagreed) that Serena was super lucky Henin retired as Henin was owning her and would have continued to after breaking out of her temporary slump, yet now you are turning around and talking as if Serena would roll over Henin anywhere. You contradict yourself almost as much as Matt. Whatever favors an argument to put down all of Hingis's superiors at a given moment and convince yourself of your "Hingis is the GOAT" fantasy. :lol:

Next will probably be your argument to how Hingis is superior to Graf who is 7-2 vs her, has 22 slams to 5 for Hingis, and who won most of their matches when Graf was 29-30 post surgery and Hingis was at her peak. That should be a good one.

SLAYED lol!

justineheninfan
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:39 PM
Well there is a HUGE (literally & metaphorically speaking) difference between Serena of 99 to 03, and Serena of 2k6 onwards. Serena would have rolled over Henin anywhere (except clay) had she been in the kind of form and shape she was when she played Hingis those two times @ AA Stadium. However, as fortune would favor les herpes, Serena would NOT play in 2003, and would not be ANYWHERE near that form in 06 or 07.

So yes, FAT Serena is VERY lucky that Henin (and Hingis, and Kim) retired (all her rivals retired early!). However, Serena in peak physical condition would have smacked les herpes aside just like everyone else did @ the USO.

Serena from 1999-2001 who Hingis faced made only 2 slam finals (and won only 1, when she had a relatively weak final opponents, chucky doll off of rebound ace :lol:). Serena of 2008-2010, who was supposably lucky Henin et al were gone, won 5 slams, and lost only to Venus, Clijsters, and Kuznetsova on clay in 3 others. Ooops, try again.

hingisGOAT
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:39 PM
Next will probably be your argument to how Hingis is superior to Graf who is 7-2 vs her, has 22 slams to 5 for Hingis, and who won most of their matches when Graf was 29-30 post surgery and Hingis was at her peak. That should be a good one.

And for the record I've never explicitly stated that Hingis is the GOAT, except in good humor :) And of course Graf is a superior player to Hingis and Henin and everyone who has ever played tennis. But that's exactly it -- Hingis' ONLY poor h2h is against Graf, the female GOAT. Henin has the same bad losing record to Venus fucking Williams of all players! Isn't that the other competition for le main for "next best" of her generation btw, someone who owns her ass 7-2?? It's MUCH less embarassing going 2-7 against the GOAT then against a one-surface-one-dimensional-pony like Venus :tape:

And anyway Serena played her best ever match period in 2001, Venus was at her peak in 2000, Davenport was a better player in 97-98 than she was in 2006 against Justine, Novotna was better competition than Jankovic, baby Venus was still better comp than mentally weak Kim and Kuz. By 2003 Capriati was a choker who hadn't won a title in nearly 2 years, '07 Serena was a fat joke as I've previously stated, and didn't '07 Venus have those breathing problems? This isn't even getting into all the B- players Henin lost to @ the USO that Hingis would never have lost to.

NO WAY was Henin's USO competition anywhere near the level of what Hingis had to face, she had never-ending luck and weak-ass competition. As I've already said Hingis out-performed her at all of the biggest tournaments except RG, really the only thing that can be said about Henin is that she is a better clay-courter than Martina. Any other surface, Hingis>Henin in both results and level of play.

I understand that Hingis isn't on the level of Graf or Nav or even Serena (accomplishments-wise, talent-wise is a whole different discussion that wouldn't favor Serena that's for sure) but there is no way in hell one-surface-specialists like Justine and Venus, who squeaked by Hingis in Slam count but get owned by her in every other category, can be considered greater, except by herpes-loving tards like yourself.

hingisGOAT
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:44 PM
If you can't see the difference in the level of competition Serena faced from 99-01 as opposed to 08-10, I can't help you. Serena was way better in every category back then, except perhaps mental toughness. She has literally had to face NO ONE these last couple years, she could have won the last 12 Slams and it would still be obvious to anyone with eyes that her GAME was better back then. The current competition is a JOKE and she only has to play at 50% to get the same or better results, I thought everyone knew this? Or I guess these facts don't fit into your agenda that les herpes is the most talented player ever only to be stopped by the goddess-like Serena of 2008 to 2010 :spit:

VishaalMaria
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:48 PM
Awwwww poor hingisGOAT

Trying to discredit Venus and Justine to try and make Martina look better. I guess he can't take the fact that both players surpassed Hingis where it mattered and left Hingis all the way back in history.

Apoleb
Feb 21st, 2012, 07:01 PM
HingisGOAT is such a pathetic (s)tool. :lol: Sad really that Coketina left him/her so pressed eternally. Please ignore him/her.

hingisGOAT
Feb 21st, 2012, 07:03 PM
So I suppose I'll take a second to address the pathetic posters in here that as usual don't contribute anything to the discussion whatsoever. Posters like PetraNo1, an obvious bandwagoner and previous banned poster, is trying so hard to convince me that I got "OWNED!" that he has said it not only in this thread but in a nasty bad-rep. Of course if what I had said wasn't true, then this troll wouldn't be so butt-hurt in the first place. The same goes for Veerror, who follows my posts around GM and slings a bunch of bad-reps my way, simply because my posts hurt her fangirl feelings. So sad, the two of you need to either find something better to do with your time OR actually make a valuable contribution to this board, but no one's holding their breath for that.

EDIT: and as I was typing this, what troll congregation would be complete without Apoleb, the most clueless and crow-eating poster in all of TF?

In the mean time, enjoy the following videos I have linked for your entertainment:

The last match EVER between Hingis and Venus, allowing Hingis to PERMANENTLY lead their h2h, despite being 25% the player she used to be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sD-Yvo35ro

The last ever Slam match between Hingis and Venus. Record at Slams/YEC? 5-2 in favor of Hingis :tape: This match was in the middle of Venus' peak, way past Hingis' peak, and one of the greatest humiliations of the 2000s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sozWZWytyRg

The only match between Hingis and Henin at a Slam. Despite being VERY young, Henin played a near flawless match (even the commentators agree) but was still dusted in straight sets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxkGBR-YjzM

Apoleb
Feb 21st, 2012, 07:06 PM
wow, I really think Myth tards need to have their own very special psychiatric center (named something like the Legend Charitable Foundation), with specialized personnel to help them deal with their issues. Their program would include 24 hour repeats how unbeatable Myth was on indoors, therapy support sessions for all the beatdowns Myth took at the hands of power players and constant replays of *gasp* that 2000 AO match. I can't. :rolls:

Raiden
Feb 21st, 2012, 07:07 PM
I was just thinking something similar... how LUCKY la main de valtrex was to win 2 US Opens. Hingis, for example, only won 1 US Open but made 6 straight semifinals from 1996 to 2001, compared to Henin's career 3. So in addition to being better at Oz & SW19, Hingis was better @ the US Open (and the YEC, and Miami), she just had to play Graf or Serena, whereas Henin had the fortune of playing Clijsters, Kuznetsova, Jankovic in her US Open runs :spit: The difference in the level of competition was drastic.

This of course begs the question, how could she be considered greater than Hingis, when Hingis out-performed her at literally every big tournament except RG?Because that isn't true and yer spouting gibberish? I hope you were not high when you came to that crappy fantasy conclusion in the name of supporting your fav, because the fact of the matter is, both Hingis and Henin faced Serena the same amount of time (twice) at the US open.. but only Hingis got her ass handed to her on both occasions, in straight sets. Oh and you can't use Graf as an excuse for yer fav's lack of more silverware at the tournament either cuz Hingis met Steffi only once in twelve years of US Open action!

VishaalMaria
Feb 21st, 2012, 07:13 PM
So I suppose I'll take a second to address the pathetic posters in here that as usual don't contribute anything to the discussion whatsoever. Posters like PetraNo1, an obvious bandwagoner and previous banned poster, is trying so hard to convince me that I got "OWNED!" that he has said it not only in this thread but in a nasty bad-rep. Of course if what I had said wasn't true, then this troll wouldn't be so butt-hurt in the first place. The same goes for Veerror, who follows my posts around GM and slings a bunch of bad-reps my way, simply because my posts hurt her fangirl feelings. So sad, the two of you need to either find something better to do with your time OR actually make a valuable contribution to this board, but no one's holding their breath for that.

EDIT: and as I was typing this, what troll congregation would be complete without Apoleb, the most clueless and crow-eating poster in all of TF?

In the mean time, enjoy the following videos I have linked for your entertainment:

The last match EVER between Hingis and Venus, allowing Hingis to PERMANENTLY lead their h2h, despite being 25% the player she used to be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sD-Yvo35ro

The last ever Slam match between Hingis and Venus. Record at Slams/YEC? 5-2 in favor of Hingis :tape: This match was in the middle of Venus' peak, way past Hingis' peak, and one of the greatest humiliations of the 2000s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sozWZWytyRg

The only match between Hingis and Henin at a Slam. Despite being VERY young, Henin played a near flawless match (even the commentators agree) but was still dusted in straight sets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxkGBR-YjzM

Yeah you hold on to those gems.

The fact of the matter is, Venus and Henin both won their seven slams after Martina won her last. So all those videos go to show is that Martina didn't win when it mattered.

hingisGOAT
Feb 21st, 2012, 07:15 PM
I'm discussing Hingis' peak 6 years of USO play. She met Graf in her first ever USO semifinal, and gave her a tough match. La cold sore met Capriati in her fist ever USO semifinal. I'm sure you can see the difference in competition there :)

Nicolás89
Feb 21st, 2012, 07:15 PM
Considering Henin of 2005-2007 would crush all of those players on clay, and did have to beat Serena and Kim to win her first in 2003, the obvious answer is YES. Most of those were probably too scared to even play Henin at Roland Garros so made the event an afterthought once she began her dominance there. A wise choice on their part.

No, the correct answer is that most of them *hated* clay or it was their worse surface, and those who were competent on clay were traumatized to play in front of the french crowd because of incidents that had absolutely nothing to do with Henin. I give you Clijsters but we all know she had no mental fortitude to win a slam prior 2005...

So in reality Henin faced no competition at all on at least 4 of her slams.

hingisGOAT
Feb 21st, 2012, 07:21 PM
Henin faced no competition at all period. The WTA's decline into a joke sport has been well-documented, and Henin was one of the first players to take advantage of this. Obviously with Azarenka, Martha, Petra, and Wozniacki etc. at the top of the sport it is just as much of a joke today as it has ever been at any point this last decade. Nonetheless, Henin never had to face a decent Graf/Seles, Hingis retired, she managed to avoid WSx2 for years and years and years until Serena came back fat as hell. She made a career feasting on a very weak clay-court era, and padding her Slam count by owning VERY weak players like pre-baby Kim, Kuznetsova (who?), or near-retirement (and never THAT good in the first place, 1-10 against Steffi) Capriati. C'est la vie.

pierce85
Feb 21st, 2012, 07:46 PM
Hingis's fans so pressed! Let's hope they won't start serving underarm serves

young_gunner913
Feb 21st, 2012, 07:58 PM
Urban Methtina fans in full form I see. :lol:

Nicolás89
Feb 21st, 2012, 08:07 PM
wow, I really think Myth tards need to have their own very special psychiatric center (named something like the Legend Charitable Foundation), with specialized personnel to help them deal with their issues. Their program would include 24 hour repeats how unbeatable Myth was on indoors, therapy support sessions for all the beatdowns Myth took at the hands of power players and constant replays of *gasp* that 2000 AO match. I can't. :rolls:

You can either refute us or re-edit your post making unfunny jokes to no end. I guess you are choosing the latter. :lol:

Urban Methtina fans in full form I see. :lol:

Make an update jinx. :wavey:

Apoleb
Feb 21st, 2012, 08:22 PM
You can either refute us or re-edit your post making unfunny jokes to no end. I guess you are choosing the latter. :lol:



Make an update jinx. :wavey:

I wouldn't know where to start. Plus, you two are too pathetic.

One of the delicious examples of HingiStool:

or near-retirement (and never THAT good in the first place, 1-10 against Steffi) Capriati

Yet, that "never THAT good in the first place" Capriati pwned Myth in her favorite slam, on her favorite surface. :spit:

dsanders06
Feb 21st, 2012, 08:28 PM
No, the correct answer is that most of them *hated* clay or it was their worse surface, and those who were competent on clay were traumatized to play in front of the french crowd because of incidents that had absolutely nothing to do with Henin. I give you Clijsters but we all know she had no mental fortitude to win a slam prior 2005...

So in reality Henin faced no competition at all on at least 4 of her slams.

And Hingis's fearsome opposition when she won her Slams.....?

Nicolás89
Feb 21st, 2012, 08:34 PM
I wouldn't know where to start. Plus, you two are too pathetic.

One of the delicious examples of HingiStool:



Yet, that "never THAT good in the first place" Capriati pwned Myth in her favorite slam, on her favorite surface. :spit:

I'm only responsible for my posts though.

Plus you already lost since you are making it personal. But I guess the truth can only make you more pressed so I can sympathize...:lol:

Apoleb
Feb 21st, 2012, 08:42 PM
TBH, I thought you were trolling.

The Daviator
Feb 21st, 2012, 08:43 PM
No, the correct answer is that most of them *hated* clay or it was their worse surface, and those who were competent on clay were traumatized to play in front of the french crowd because of incidents that had absolutely nothing to do with Henin. I give you Clijsters but we all know she had no mental fortitude to win a slam prior 2005...

So in reality Henin faced no competition at all on at least 4 of her slams.

She faced no competition because the competition couldn't win on clay? What? :lol: The reason these players didn't succeed on clay and couldn't win major clay titles was because Henin herself was beating them all and hogging all the clay tournaments. Justine beat Serena x2, Clijsters x2, Kuznetsova x2, Pierce, Sharapova, Myskina, Jankovic, Ivanovic during her RG victories, who else could she have beaten?! :lol:

Hingis beat THREE top 10 players to win THREE Slams in 1997, so maybe you should revise your notions regarding weak competition.

Brad[le]y.
Feb 21st, 2012, 08:44 PM
From 2003 onwards she made the final 3 out of 5 visits. In 03 she had just come back after the virus and was far from full strength so that leaves only one bad outing once she had reached her peak, 4th round in 05. Not a bad record really.

and that loss was to an in form Mary Pierce who ended up making the final. Not a bad record at all. :shrug:

and LMAO at this Henin vs. Hingis fight going on right now. All that's missing is Smitten.

hingisGOAT
Feb 21st, 2012, 08:49 PM
I wouldn't know where to start. Plus, you two are too pathetic.

One of the delicious examples of HingiStool:



Yet, that "never THAT good in the first place" Capriati pwned Myth in her favorite slam, on her favorite surface. :spit:

Any reasonably intelligent tennis fan knows that Hingis was very far removed from her best (in both level of play and proximity to her peak years) in those matches against Jennifer, so where is the relevance? Hingis would have lost to anyone in those finals, such was the state of her game at that point. In her prime she crushed Capriati repeatedly. Comparatively, peak Herpes was nearly beaten by a much worse version of Jen. As it stands, that is considered her best win @ the USO (unless we're counting fatRena or injuredVee, I don't really know) and even your dumbass knows that a win over post-peak JCap isn't all that impressive

JCTennisFan
Feb 21st, 2012, 08:50 PM
Henin was notoriously bad at pushing her body further than she should have... often times bringing herself to exhaustion and injury. Seeing as how the US open is the last slam of the season... I believe that during some years she was simply a bit too depleted to perform at her best. I dont think it is suprising that the two years she won at the US open, she would collapse the following year either to illness or retirement.

Nicolás89
Feb 21st, 2012, 08:51 PM
And Hingis's fearsome opposition when she won her Slams.....?

I never said she defeated the very best, I've said it before Martina (along with others Henin, Clijsters, Graf etc.) managed to benefit of transitional times and weak competition.

The sooner you all realize that Henin isn't the clay GOAT you all want her to be, that her 2003-2004 seasons do have an asterik next to them and that in 2007 her competition was weak or out of form the better for you. :lol:

To end this post let me requote Apoleb.

therapy support sessions for all the beatdowns Myth took at the hands of power players

So you had a little deja vu in 2008 with you fav, huh!? :lol:

JCTennisFan
Feb 21st, 2012, 08:54 PM
Any reasonably intelligent tennis fan knows that Hingis was very far removed from her best (in both level of play and proximity to her peak years) in those matches against Jennifer, so where is the relevance? Hingis would have lost to anyone in those finals, such was the state of her game at that point. In her prime she crushed Capriati repeatedly. Comparatively, peak Herpes was nearly beaten by a much worse version of Jen. As it stands, that is considered her best win @ the USO (unless we're counting fatRena or injuredVee, I don't really know) and even your dumbass knows that a win over post-peak JCap isn't all that impressive

So I guess that Hingis was temporarily rendered insane when she told an interviewer that Capriati was her biggest threat on tour? It was in early 02 I believe. She said something to the effect of "Jennifer has the best mix of offense and defense right now."

Apoleb
Feb 21st, 2012, 08:54 PM
Any reasonably intelligent tennis fan knows that Hingis was very far removed from her best (in both level of play and proximity to her peak years) in those matches against Jennifer, so where is the relevance? Hingis would have lost to anyone in those finals, such was the state of her game at that point. In her prime she crushed Capriati repeatedly. Comparatively, peak Herpes was nearly beaten by a much worse version of Jen. As it stands, that is considered her best win @ the USO (unless we're counting fatRena or injuredVee, I don't really know) and even your dumbass knows that a win over post-peak JCap isn't all that impressive

So if Myth was so past her peak in 2001 AO, then I wonder where do Venus and Serena's peaks stand there if she can beat them both? :oh:

Just give it up HingiStool. At least Matias is trolling (or I hope so). You on the other hand are plain old retarded. Just go watch some of those 1997 finals or something.

Nicolás89
Feb 21st, 2012, 08:56 PM
She faced no competition because the competition couldn't win on clay? What? :lol: The reason these players didn't succeed on clay and couldn't win major clay titles was because Henin herself was beating them all and hogging all the clay tournaments. Justine beat Serena x2, Clijsters x2, Kuznetsova x2, Pierce, Sharapova, Myskina, Jankovic, Ivanovic during her RG victories, who else could she have beaten?! :lol:

Hingis beat THREE top 10 players to win THREE Slams in 1997, so maybe you should revise your notions regarding weak competition.

Eh no she faced no competition because all of her main rivals sucked at Paris (or clay) and that fact doesn't have anything to do with her being too good for them. :lol:

hingisGOAT
Feb 21st, 2012, 08:56 PM
Hingis beat THREE top 10 players to win THREE Slams in 1997, so maybe you should revise your notions regarding weak competition.

Yeah because players like Pierce and Venus weren't top 10 players. Everyone knows rankings don't matter at all in WTA, look @ the Williams Sisters, Pierce, Clijsters, Wozniacki etc. You know this already though, so why play dumb just to spite Hingis :confused: Of that's right because you're another pathetic hater that has been throwing shade on her for as long as you can remember :lol:

Brad[le]y.
Feb 21st, 2012, 08:59 PM
She faced no competition because the competition couldn't win on clay? What? :lol: The reason these players didn't succeed on clay and couldn't win major clay titles was because Henin herself was beating them all and hogging all the clay tournaments. Justine beat Serena x2, Clijsters x2, Kuznetsova x2, Pierce, Sharapova, Myskina, Jankovic, Ivanovic during her RG victories, who else could she have beaten?! :lol:

Hingis beat THREE top 10 players to win THREE Slams in 1997, so maybe you should revise your notions regarding weak competition.

well she did have 5 top 10 wins in slams that year but I guess we're only counting the ones that she won :p

and I remember dsanders saying this way back (can't believe I'm agreeing with him), but top 10 wins don't necessarily mean big wins. Which win was bigger for Stosur at the US open, her win over ranked #2 Zvonareva or her win over #28 Serena Williams? :shrug:

hingisGOAT
Feb 21st, 2012, 09:03 PM
So I guess that Hingis was temporarily rendered insane when she told an interviewer that Capriati was her biggest threat on tour? It was in early 02 I believe. She said something to the effect of "Jennifer has the best mix of offense and defense right now."

At that very brief moment in time, that was probably the correct statement. I'm pretty sure I've had this discussion with you before however, here it goes again: Hingis' level of play in her AO losses to Jen, ESPECIALLY in 2001, were so unbelievably bad and so unbelievably below her standard of the previous two weeks, that I'm tempted to say that Capriati had NOTHING to do with the losses themselves. Go look at the stat sheets for proof: Hingis hit way more errors than she had all tournament long (both years), even though she still fired more winners than Jen (both years) because Capriati is actually not that imposing of a player. Basically, those losses from Hingis' perspective were all mental, and I'm sure even a die-hard Jen fan like yourself knows that she caught a serious break with Hingis' extremely poor play in those finals.

Point being, yeah Capriati was a good player but she was never GREAT and a match against Jen is always in the opponent's hands.

The Daviator
Feb 21st, 2012, 09:17 PM
Eh no she faced no competition because all of her main rivals sucked at Paris (or clay) and that fact doesn't have anything to do with her being too good for them. :lol:

But aren't you basing your idea that they 'sucked' in Paris because they didn't win there/make finals, well that's because Henin kept beating them :lol: Without Henin, Clijsters would probably be a 2-time RG winner and everyone would be hailing her as a Clay Queen.

Yeah because players like Pierce and Venus weren't top 10 players. Everyone knows rankings don't matter at all in WTA, look @ the Williams Sisters, Pierce, Clijsters, Wozniacki etc. You know this already though, so why play dumb just to spite Hingis :confused: Of that's right because you're another pathetic hater that has been throwing shade on her for as long as you can remember :lol:

What? :haha: I don't hate Hingis at all, I must have made a handful of posts about her in the past 4 years and nothing hateful :spit: I'm just saying that if Henin's Slam wins were 'weak' then so were Martina's, for the reason I posted.

JCTennisFan
Feb 21st, 2012, 09:20 PM
At that very brief moment in time, that was probably the correct statement. I'm pretty sure I've had this discussion with you before however, here it goes again: Hingis' level of play in her AO losses to Jen, ESPECIALLY in 2001, were so unbelievably bad and so unbelievably below her standard of the previous two weeks, that I'm tempted to say that Capriati had NOTHING to do with the losses themselves. Go look at the stat sheets for proof: Hingis hit way more errors than she had all tournament long (both years), even though she still fired more winners than Jen (both years) because Capriati is actually not that imposing of a player. Basically, those losses from Hingis' perspective were all mental, and I'm sure even a die-hard Jen fan like yourself knows that she caught a serious break with Hingis' extremely poor play in those finals.

Point being, yeah Capriati was a good player but she was never GREAT and a match against Jen is always in the opponent's hands.


Stats dont show the whole story.... A person can play poorly because their opponent is putting so much stress on their game that it begins to break down. 02 was a choke on Hingis' half but some of it was honestly heat related.... Capriati withstood the insane heat better than Hingis. Does that mean she was a better player? Maybe not but it meant she dug deeper and fought harder... which are signs of a true champion. And in 01.... she blew Hingis out in 2 sets. She outplayed Hingis in the first final.... no question about it. Capriati had too many weapons and too little weaknesses to NOT be considered great. Arguably only Kim (09 onwards), Henin, Serena, and possibly Venus were more complete at their best.

Stamp Paid
Feb 21st, 2012, 09:31 PM
This of course begs the question, how could she be considered greater than Hingis, when Hingis out-performed her at literally every big tournament except RG?I don't even like Henin. But seriously? :lol:

Serena_Williams_
Feb 21st, 2012, 09:35 PM
I don't even like Henin. But seriously? :lol:

This :lol:.And the best part is that this so called FATRena won 6 slams in a period of 3 years while Hingis won 5 slams in her whole career :lol:

Brad[le]y.
Feb 21st, 2012, 09:36 PM
I don't even like Henin. But seriously? :lol:

Smitten does a much better job of this, he should be here soon :lol:

hingisGOAT
Feb 21st, 2012, 09:45 PM
Smitten does a much better job of this, he should be here soon :lol:

:rolleyes: I think Smitten is an amusing poster, but he is just that: amusing. I've never seen him seriously defend Hingis' incredible records and legacy that are constantly under attack from WS/Herpes fans/ Hingis haters. Instead he'll probably just say something like:

"Legend is far more talented and beautiful than Justine. Justine could never."

Not that anyone in their right mind would disagree with that...

Stamp Paid
Feb 21st, 2012, 09:46 PM
I like Hingis more than Henin.

JCTennisFan
Feb 21st, 2012, 10:35 PM
wow..... the diapers are out now for sure! Toddler fight, Toddler fight!

Nicolás89
Feb 21st, 2012, 10:39 PM
But aren't you basing your idea that they 'sucked' in Paris because they didn't win there/make finals, well that's because Henin kept beating them :lol: Without Henin, Clijsters would probably be a 2-time RG winner and everyone would be hailing her as a Clay Queen.

Ughh again, clay is the worst surface for Serena, Venus, Davenport, Sharapova, pretty much all her contemporanies, Mauresmo and Hingis were extreme chokers at Paris. You dellude yourself if you think that Henin being so superior on clay is the main reason why she dominated so much on it, we have Myskina, Ivanovic, Schiavonne and Li Na winning RG, Pova making semifinals, the whole field sucks on clay (and grass) which is the reason why Henin had such free passes there, that and because she faced chokers and punch bags on finals (Clijsters, Kuznetsova).

PetraReeMona
Feb 21st, 2012, 10:43 PM
Ughh again, clay is the worst surface for Serena, Venus, Davenport, Sharapova, pretty much all her contemporanies, Mauresmo and Hingis were extreme chokers at Paris. You dellude yourself if you think that Henin being so superior on clay is the main reason why she dominated so much on it, we have Myskina, Ivanovic, Schiavonne and Li Na winning RG, Pova making semifinals, the whole field sucks on clay (and grass) which is the reason why Henin had such free passes there, that and because she faced chokers and punch bags on finals (Clijsters, Kuznetsova).

If Kiim and Sveta were such punchbags in finals, how come they have 6 slams between them? Did they not play the finals to win them :confused:

justineheninfan
Feb 21st, 2012, 10:44 PM
Hingistards are the most delusional bunch on the planet. Even the most delusional Henin and Venus fans would never argue their favorites as being the GOAT despite that both have achieved more and are greater players than Hingis. There are many Hingis fans (HingisGOAT included obviously) who not only try to argue her as being above more accomplished players, but in fact do argue her as the GOAT, a 5 slam winner who won her final ever slam at age 18.

Something else I should note, HingisGOAT likes to refer to the super strong 99-2003 field, and how Hingis was such a force and had all her achievements against such great competition, and Henin would be dead vs that group. Well guess what Henin won MORE slams in the 99-2003 period than Hingis did, 2 to 1, LOL! This despite that Henin only began to come into her own in the final year of that period. Hingis had most of her major achievements in 97-early 98 against a group that makes the 2004-2007 field look like a superhero group by comparision. I laugh heartily that it is Hingistards and Clijsterstards who like to make light of Henin's competition the most when these are the two players who benefited most of all as far as their slam wins from deathly weak competition. Henin's competition was not the toughest ever, but it is the absolute last place Hingis and Kim fanatics should want to go.

Henin would be dead vs the Serena of 99-2003? Henin beat the Serena of 2002-2003 THREE times, more than anyone else, and was the only one to beat her in a slam. So it was just on clay, so what, HingisGOAT, Smitten, and Ryan all amazingly even tried to argue Hingis as being better than Henin on clay in the past. :lol: Now Hingis would have no chance whatsoever of beating the 2002-2003 Serena, I would agree on that. Which is why she retired with her last win over Serena being in January 2001, and her last matches with Serena turning into major beatdowns for the most part. I am sure prime Henin would have in fact been easily better than this 99-2001 Serena who made all of 2 slam finals and was consistently below inferior players to prime Henin such as Hingis and Davenport; and even that version of Serena was good enough to help keep Hingis slamless after January 99. According to Hingistards, Hingis is supposably the GOAT too, what does competition matter to the so called GOAT.

Also would like to quote Pam Shriver's own words during the 2001 Australian Open: "Hingis has won 5 slams, and I think it is important to point out who they were over. She beat Mary Pierce to win her first slam at the Australian Open, then Jana Novotna before Jana had even won her first slam at Wimbledon, then a very raw Venus Williams at the U.S Open. Then her last two majors she won over Conchita Martinez at the Australian Open and Amelie Mauresmo at the Australian Open. What I am saying is those quality of final round opponents are nothing like the quality of say a Venus Williams or a Seles in her prime." Cliff Drysdale: "or even a Capriati who is playing better now." Pam Shriver" "right." The last point is crucial, it was proven Hingis couldnt even beat someone of Jennifer Capriati level in slam semis or finals. Not that Capriati isnt a great player, but if that is beyond her limit, for a 5 slam winner that is weak. It appears her max to win slams against was a Mary Pierce or Jana Novotna level player.

As for being Hingis haters, they probably wouldnt even exist if it werent for her delusional fan base who even try to insert her into threads like this which have NOTHING to do with her. This is a place to discuss Henin's widely diverse U.S Open record, not start a Hingis vs Henin debate (which was ended pretty convincingly in Henin's favor on 2 different threads much to butthurt Hingistards annoyance).

thrust
Feb 21st, 2012, 10:54 PM
I like Hingis more than Henin.

That does not make Hingis a better player than Justine. I like Henin more that Serena, BUT, facts are facts.

L'Enfant Sauvage
Feb 21st, 2012, 10:54 PM
My, how this thread has blossomed since I peeked at it this morning :drool:

brickhousesupporter
Feb 21st, 2012, 10:55 PM
That does not make Hingis a better player than Justine. I like Henin more that Serena, BUT, facts are facts.
:confused: He isn't arguing that Hingis is better than Henin.....:confused:

justineheninfan
Feb 21st, 2012, 10:57 PM
Yeah because players like Pierce and Venus weren't top 10 players.

In 1997 Venus was nowhere near being a top 10 caliber player. The top 10 this year (as mighty weak as they were) were all overall much better than her, as anyone who followed tennis this year would agree with me on, and which her post U.S Open performances which included no good wins and lopsided spankings to Davenport, Novotna, and Spirlea demonstrated. Her U.S Open final was a miracle of sorts through a combination of factors, but also a reflection of how weak everyone except Hingis and an old Novotna were this year.

Pierce after her horrendous 1996 did not start 1997 as a top 10 caliber player, and even after a year of improved form barely ended 1997 in the top 10, so no she wasnt either.

Hingis's final opponents in 1997 were what they were, except for Novotna at Wimbledon they were all shit, and make all of Henin's slam final opponents which are far from the best ever group themselves look great by comparision (including 2005 Pierce who was far better than 1997 Pierce).


Capriati is actually not that imposing of a player.

yet she is 3-0 vs Hingis in slam semis and finals. I guess Hingis is even less imposing of one.

Novichok
Feb 21st, 2012, 10:58 PM
That does not make Hingis a better player than Justine. I like Henin more that Serena, BUT, facts are facts.

:facepalm:

Miss Atomic Bomb
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:02 PM
Hingis can only wish she could play like prime Henin.

Nicolás89
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:03 PM
If Kiim and Sveta were such punchbags in finals, how come they have 6 slams between them? Did they not play the finals to win them :confused:

Sorry I don't respond to bangwagonners.

Hingistards are the most delusional bunch on the planet. Even the most delusional Henin and Venus fans would never argue their favorites as being the GOAT despite that both have achieved more and are greater players than Hingis. There are many Hingis fans (HingisGOAT included obviously) who not only try to argue her as being above more accomplished players, but in fact do argue her as the GOAT, a 5 slam winner who won her final ever slam at age 18.

Something else I should note, HingisGOAT likes to refer to the super strong 99-2003 field, and how Hingis was such a force and had all her achievements against such great competition, and Henin would be dead vs that group. Well guess what Henin won MORE slams in the 99-2003 period than Hingis did, 2 to 1, LOL! This despite that Henin only began to come into her own in the final year of that period. Hingis had most of her major achievements in 97-early 98 against a group that makes the 2004-2007 field look like a superhero group by comparision. I laugh heartily that it is Hingistards and Clijsterstards who like to make light of Henin's competition the most when these are the two players who benefited most of all as far as their slam wins from deathly weak competition. Henin's competition was not the toughest ever, but it is the absolute last place Hingis and Kim fanatics should want to go.

Henin would be dead vs the Serena of 99-2003? Henin beat the Serena of 2002-2003 THREE times, more than anyone else, and was the only one to beat her in a slam. So it was just on clay, so what, HingisGOAT, Smitten, and Ryan all amazingly even tried to argue Hingis as being better than Henin on clay in the past. :lol: Now Hingis would have no chance whatsoever of beating the 2002-2003 Serena, I would agree on that. Which is why she retired with her last win over Serena being in January 2001, and her last matches with Serena turning into major beatdowns for the most part. I am sure prime Henin would have in fact been easily better than this 99-2001 Serena who made all of 2 slam finals and was consistently below inferior players to prime Henin such as Hingis and Davenport; and even that version of Serena was good enough to help keep Hingis slamless after January 99. According to Hingistards, Hingis is supposably the GOAT too, what does competition matter to the so called GOAT.

Also would like to quote Pam Shriver's own words during the 2001 Australian Open: "Hingis has won 5 slams, and I think it is important to point out who they were over. She beat Mary Pierce to win her first slam at the Australian Open, then Jana Novotna before Jana had even won her first slam at Wimbledon, then a very raw Venus Williams at the U.S Open. Then her last two majors she won over Conchita Martinez at the Australian Open and Amelie Mauresmo at the Australian Open. What I am saying is those quality of final round opponents are nothing like the quality of say a Venus Williams or a Seles in her prime." Cliff Drysdale: "or even a Capriati who is playing better now." Pam Shriver" "right." The last point is crucial, it was proven Hingis couldnt even beat someone of freaking Capriati level in slam semis or finals. Not that Capriati isnt a great player, but if that is beyond her limit, for a 5 slam winner that is weak. It appears her max to win slams against was a Mary Pierce or Jana Novotna level player.

As for being Hingis haters, they probably wouldnt even exist if it werent for her delusional fan base who even try to insert her into threads like this which have NOTHING to do with her. This is a place to discuss Henin's widely diverse U.S Open record, not start a Hingis vs Henin debate (which was ended pretty convincingly in Henin's favor on 2 different threads much to butthurt Hingistards annoyance).

Poor ol' Justcheatheninfan, you will never learn. You have the nerve to critize Hingis' opponents' level? Seriously jinx? Okay let me break it for you, pre-slam world class choker Clijsters x 3, ancient Pierce, punch bag Sveta x 2 and some Serb chick, got it? Next time check your data before coming with stuff. Try better next time my son!

AcesHigh
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:08 PM
They both had weak competition.

Case closed

Nicolás89
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:09 PM
Also, I love how you arbitrarily decided Henin fans won at the "peak vs peak" and "who is better/greater?" threads, GOLD!

PetraReeMona
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:10 PM
Sorry I don't respond to bangwagonners.

What's a bangwaggoner :confused:

If you meant Bandwaggoner, why would you say that? I've been a Petra fan since she played Dinara Safina at the USO in 2009 (I think that was the year), so if that's a band or bang waggoner (whatever you wish to call it, then I suppose I am). You are obviously a CokeHingis bandwaggoner too .... don't ask me why though, I don't understand how anyone can be a fan of someone who takes coke; such a bad influence on the youngsters.

I know the real reason why you said that ...... it's because you didn't have an answer :hah: . Don't worry, I understand .... there was no answer.

justineheninfan
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:11 PM
Sorry I don't respond to bangwagonners.



Poor ol' Justcheatheninfan, you will never learn. You have the nerve to critize Hingis' opponents' level? Seriously jinx? Okay let me break it for you, pre-slam world class choker Clijster x 3, ancient Pierce, punch bag Sveta x 2 and some Serb chick, got it? Next time check your data before coming with stuff. Try better next time my son!

Lets compare their final opponents:

Clijsters 3 times > Capriati 3 times (Justine went 3-0, Coketina went 0-3)
2005 Pierce > 1997 Pierce (both won easily)
Davenport 2 times > Kuznetsova 2 times (However Justine slaughtered Kuznetsova in straights, while Hingis got slaughtered in straights, the difference in result was far more than the difference in opponent)
Peak Mauresmo > old Novotna (Hingis won in 3 sets, Henin lost in 3 sets, both on their worst surface, the only player the cummulative result/opponent combination was about on par)
Ivanovic > Majoli (yet Hingis got destroyed, Henin destroyed the opponent as always at Roland Garros)

Anymore questions? :lol: Henin fans arent the fools who try and argue her competition as the best ever. However only blind Hingistards like yourself and HingisGOAT try and bring competition into the equation when in fact competition only makes Hingis look worse than anyone, since it was proven she cant win squat against even mildly good competition (eg- Capriati), and when her competition when she did win makes even average competition look like a time machine centennial tournament of legends.

Brad[le]y.
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:14 PM
What's a bangwaggoner :confused:

If you meant Bandwaggoner, why would you say that? I've been a Petra fan since she played Dinara Safina at the USO in 2009 (I think that was the year), so if that's a band or bang waggoner (whatever you wish to call it, then I suppose I am). You are obviously a CokeHingis bandwaggoner too .... don't ask me why though, I don't understand how anyone can be a fan of someone who takes coke; such a bad influence on the youngsters.

I know the real reason why you said that ...... it's because you didn't have an answer :hah: . Don't worry, I understand .... there was no answer.

like she's the only one to have done it :spit:

Nicolás89
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:32 PM
Petra N°3 my finger slipped. Move on.

Lets compare their final opponents:

Clijsters 3 times > Capriati 3 times (Justine went 3-0, Coketina went 0-3)
2005 Pierce > 1997 Pierce (both won easily)
Davenport 2 times > Kuznetsova 2 times (However Justine slaughtered Kuznetsova in straights, while Hingis got slaughtered in straights, the difference in result was far more than the difference in opponent)
Peak Mauresmo > old Novotna (Hingis won in 3 sets, Henin lost in 3 sets, both on their worst surface, the only player the cummulative result/opponent combination was about on par)
Ivanovic > Majoli (yet Hingis got destroyed, Henin destroyed the opponent as always at Roland Garros)

Anymore questions? :lol: Henin fans arent the fools who try and argue her competition as the best ever. However only blind Hingistards like yourself and HingisGOAT try and bring competition into the equation when in fact competition only makes Hingis look worse than anyone, since it was proven she cant win squat against even mildly good competition (eg- Capriati), and when her competition when she did win makes even average competition look like a time machine centennial tournament of legends.

What kind of crazy weak ass comparison are you trying to desperately put out there hoping that somebody else will back? :lol:

I thought I told you to try better oh well, reality check alert okay gin!? The only reality that matters is that at best Henin's opponents in finals were of the same caliber of Hingis' opponents meaning in finals that she actually won I mean who are you trying to decieve putting Davenport and Capriati there so your argument looks stronger, heck why didn't you put Pova or young Mauresmo, Venus...?

The Daviator
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:34 PM
Ughh again, clay is the worst surface for Serena, Venus, Davenport, Sharapova, pretty much all her contemporanies, Mauresmo and Hingis were extreme chokers at Paris. You dellude yourself if you think that Henin being so superior on clay is the main reason why she dominated so much on it, we have Myskina, Ivanovic, Schiavonne and Li Na winning RG, Pova making semifinals, the whole field sucks on clay (and grass) which is the reason why Henin had such free passes there, that and because she faced chokers and punch bags on finals (Clijsters, Kuznetsova).

You describe Clijsters as 'pre-Slam' when diminishing Henin's achievements, well guess why she was pre-Slam....Justine Henin! Clijsters level of play was much better back in the day, look how she BS'd her way to USO '10 and AO '11. Calling them 'punch-bags' simply because Henin outclassed them doesn't work.

Davenport was/is my favourite player, but Henin was beating her in straight sets on hardcourts, so the fact that clay was Lindsay's worst surface is moot. Clay may be Venus and Serena's worst surface but if it weren't for Henin, SW would have back-to-back RGs and she'd have a much greater status on clay currently. Again, who could she have faced that would have been competition....I suppose Hingis with her 0 RG titles :lol: And don't use the 'extreme chokers in Paris' excuse, is it supposed to be Henin's fault that they're so much weaker and flakier than her? :lol:

VishaalMaria
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:35 PM
:rolleyes: I think Smitten is an amusing poster, but he is just that: amusing. I've never seen him seriously defend Hingis' incredible records and legacy that are constantly under attack from WS/Herpes fans/ Hingis haters. Instead he'll probably just say something like:

"Legend is far more talented and beautiful than Justine. Justine could never."

Not that anyone in their right mind would disagree with that...

Smitten wouldn't make a fool out of herself to argue that Martina is better than Serena when the facts (i.e. 8 more slams) shows otherwise.

thrust
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:37 PM
Henin faced no competition at all period. The WTA's decline into a joke sport has been well-documented, and Henin was one of the first players to take advantage of this. Obviously with Azarenka, Martha, Petra, and Wozniacki etc. at the top of the sport it is just as much of a joke today as it has ever been at any point this last decade. Nonetheless, Henin never had to face a decent Graf/Seles, Hingis retired, she managed to avoid WSx2 for years and years and years until Serena came back fat as hell. She made a career feasting on a very weak clay-court era, and padding her Slam count by owning VERY weak players like pre-baby Kim, Kuznetsova (who?), or near-retirement (and never THAT good in the first place, 1-10 against Steffi) Capriati. C'est la vie.

Let it go fool, the more you post the dumber you seem.

Nicolás89
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:42 PM
You describe Clijsters as 'pre-Slam' when diminishing Henin's achievements, well guess why she was pre-Slam....Justine Henin! Clijsters level of play was much better back in the day, look how she BS'd her way to USO '10 and AO '11. Calling them 'punch-bags' simply because Henin outclassed them doesn't work.

Davenport was/is my favourite player, but Henin was beating her in straight sets on hardcourts, so the fact that clay was Lindsay's worst surface is moot. Clay may be Venus and Serena's worst surface but if it weren't for Henin, SW would have back-to-back RGs and she'd have a much greater status on clay currently. Again, who could she have faced that would have been competition....I suppose Hingis with her 0 RG titles :lol: And don't use the 'extreme chokers in Paris' excuse, is it supposed to be Henin's fault that they're so much weaker and flakier than her? :lol:

I'm not making any excuses or saying it is her fault, I'm just saying she took advantage of a weak clay (and overall) field, who can still honestly deny that argument and stretch their fingers with a straight face? :lol:

Stonerpova
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:47 PM
Why does every thread nowadays turn into a Hingis circle jerk (and then bash) thread?

DragonFlame
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:48 PM
I was just thinking something similar... how LUCKY la main de valtrex was to win 2 US Opens. Hingis, for example, only won 1 US Open but made 6 straight semifinals from 1996 to 2001, compared to Henin's career 3. So in addition to being better at Oz & SW19, Hingis was better @ the US Open (and the YEC, and Miami), she just had to play Graf or Serena, whereas Henin had the fortune of playing Clijsters, Kuznetsova, Jankovic in her US Open runs :spit: The difference in the level of competition was drastic.

This of course begs the question, how could she be considered greater than Hingis, when Hingis out-performed her at literally every big tournament except RG?

Are you kidding me? :spit: How biased are you, who the hell did you think she beat in 07? Hingis is an underpowered version of henin, deal with it.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:50 PM
Why does every thread nowadays turn into a Hingis circle jerk (and then bash) thread?

Because insecure Hingis fans go in every thread trying to hype up Hingis's legend, and then everyone else comes in and gives them a reality check.

Brad[le]y.
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:51 PM
Why does every thread nowadays turn into a Hingis circle jerk (and then bash) thread?

And the scary thing is that Smitten or Serenidad or whatever his name is wasn't behind it this time :crying2:

young_gunner913
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:54 PM
Shade. Shaaaaaaaaaaaaade. :hysteric:

Nicolás89
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:54 PM
Because insecure Hingis fans go in every thread trying to hype up Hingis's now irrelevant legend, and then everyone else comes in and gives them a reality check.

Find more suitable words dread, ok?

And seriously how trashy is to make HIV remarks or make racial slurs, seriously I know I'm gonna go in like a few minutes and when I come back this thread is going to be butt closed. :lol:

Brad[le]y.
Feb 21st, 2012, 11:55 PM
:hysteric: NOOOOOOOO

Matt01
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:00 AM
Henin faced no competition at all period. The WTA's decline into a joke sport has been well-documented, and Henin was one of the first players to take advantage of this. Obviously with Azarenka, Martha, Petra, and Wozniacki etc. at the top of the sport it is just as much of a joke today as it has ever been at any point this last decade. Nonetheless, Henin never had to face a decent Graf/Seles, Hingis retired, she managed to avoid WSx2 for years and years and years until Serena came back fat as hell. She made a career feasting on a very weak clay-court era, and padding her Slam count by owning VERY weak players like pre-baby Kim, Kuznetsova (who?), or near-retirement (and never THAT good in the first place, 1-10 against Steffi) Capriati. C'est la vie.


I know that 7>5 is hard to swallow for you but Henin and Hingis (and Venus soon too) are all retired now so it's time to get over your extreme bitterness :hug: :kiss: :)

hingisGOAT
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:12 AM
And Matt has joined the discussion! The troll thread has come full circle!

And 7>5, sure, but everything else Hingis > Henin. Girl couldn't even do this --

http://www.clevelandleader.com/files/_124553_Copy_of_Martina_Hingis_with_Wimbledon_trop hy.jpg

http://s2.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20070706&t=2&i=1066313&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=300&r=1066313

Novichok
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:19 AM
Right, look -- you can make all the gay AIDS references in the world, it's just rather... ironic, given that there is a strong possibility that someone in your family is the one who started the whole epidemic!

LBV is American. :lol:

PetraReeMona
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:19 AM
That is a disgusting thing to say.

PetraReeMona
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:22 AM
And Matt has joined the discussion! The troll thread has come full circle!

And 7>5, sure, but everything else Hingis > Henin. Girl couldn't even do this --

http://www.clevelandleader.com/files/_124553_Copy_of_Martina_Hingis_with_Wimbledon_trop hy.jpg

http://s2.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20070706&t=2&i=1066313&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=300&r=1066313

Nah..... this is much better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Da9sv8b6sM

:bounce::bounce:

Sp!ffy
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:23 AM
The same can be asked about your grandmother. How many times did your family in-breed to produce as retarded of a creature as you? :tape:

Matt01
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:26 AM
Also would like to quote Pam Shriver's own words during the 2001 Australian Open: "Hingis has won 5 slams, and I think it is important to point out who they were over. She beat Mary Pierce to win her first slam at the Australian Open, then Jana Novotna before Jana had even won her first slam at Wimbledon, then a very raw Venus Williams at the U.S Open. Then her last two majors she won over Conchita Martinez at the Australian Open and Amelie Mauresmo at the Australian Open. What I am saying is those quality of final round opponents are nothing like the quality of say a Venus Williams or a Seles in her prime." Cliff Drysdale: "or even a Capriati who is playing better now." Pam Shriver" "right." The last point is crucial, it was proven Hingis couldnt even beat someone of Jennifer Capriati level in slam semis or finals. Not that Capriati isnt a great player, but if that is beyond her limit, for a 5 slam winner that is weak. It appears her max to win slams against was a Mary Pierce or Jana Novotna level player.


I agree with most of what you posted in this thread but this (Shriver's quote) is a but unfair against Hingis considering she beat both Venus and Serena at AO 2001. :shrug: And she also *almost* beat Jennifer in the AO final one year later so it's not like she couldn't compete with those players at her best in big matches. Note that she also played a very close atch with Venus on grass in (IMO) Venus' best year. The only player Hingis didn't really have a chance against was Serena when she was at or near her best.

Stamp Paid
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:27 AM
Right, look -- you can make all the gay AIDS references in the world, it's just rather... ironic, given that there is a strong possibility that someone in your family is the one who started the whole epidemic! Did you know HIV (h=human) evolved from SIV (s=simian)? What in the world was your grand-mom doing out there?!?Oh, give it a rest.
You're so vapid, you're not even worth the read. :lol:

J4m3ka
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:27 AM
Justine's Slam wins were of a far higher quality than the ones won by Hingis, in all areas. Level of play, quality of opponents, etc. :help:

03 French she beat Serena who had arguably played the best clay court match of her life in the previous round, had an epic win over Capriati (who had owned Hingis in SFs/Fs) at the US 03 and beat Serena and reigning Wimbledon champ Venus before taking the USO 07 crown. Her other French wins were slightly easier although that was more a testament of how dominant she was on the surface rather than playing against cripples. She still had wins over dominant players like Kim, Maria and Serena and thumped the woman who would take the title the year she retired.

On topic, I actually agree with this (:help:) :p


I don't think it's anything to do with the surface - on the contrary I think quick hardcourts were her 2nd-best surface. I think her patchy US Open record is simply more because of its position in the season.

I always thought that fast hardcourts suited Justine more than slow ones. The speed of court helped her to keep up with the big hitters, she defended and moved well on the surface and her FH could race through the court, rather than sitting up and being clobbered (see 03 AO SF vs Venus).

Nicolás89
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:27 AM
Eww...tackiness. Whatever happened to girls making fun of their weaves?

VishaalMaria
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:29 AM
Go see a Psychiatrist- NOW.

Matt01
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:29 AM
I'm not making any excuses or saying it is her fault, I'm just saying she took advantage of a weak clay (and overall) field, who can still honestly deny that argument and stretch their fingers with a straight face? :lol:


This is probably true. :shrug: The reason why Henin won 4 Slams on clay but "only" 3 on HC was because the compeition on clay was weaker because it was the worst surface for player like Clisjters, Serena, Venus and Maria, who were all much better on faster surfaces. OTOH, this makes Henin's wins on HC (3 Slams + 2YECs + 1 Olympic Gold) even more impressive considering she is more accomplished on HC than players like Capriati, Sharapova or even Venus Williams.

Matt01
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:34 AM
And Matt has joined the discussion! The troll thread has come full circle!

And 7>5, sure, but everything else Hingis > Henin. Girl couldn't even do this --


And your girl couldn't even win a single RG title in numerous tries because she couldn't beat a player of Majoli's amazing calibre, my friend :shrug:

ETA: And it could be nice if we could stop with the personel insults in this thread and instead discuss some tennis.

Novichok
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:36 AM
I hope you're not implying that's how HIV spread from monkeys to humans...

Sp!ffy
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:39 AM
There IS a difference between in-breeding and taking it up the ass from a wild monkey! :rolleyes: To answer your question: NONE, zip, zilch, zero times, like "how many times did Justine win Wimbledon?"

http://www.avert.org/origin-aids-hiv.htm

Educate yourself, please.

miffedmax
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:46 AM
Enough.

Charlatan
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:51 AM
What do you mean who am I? Are you flirting with me :confused:

I'm a poster on this board and a Petra Kvitova fan, but I've seen most of your derogatory posts regarding a lot of players and I just thought I'd give it back to you. :lol:

Who are you?

oops

dsanders06
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:52 AM
:facepalm:

miffedmax
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:56 AM
My apologies to those of you who were trying to have an intelligent discussion, but this thread has been hopelessly hijacked.

When I say "Enough" I bloody well mean it. That means everybody goes on there best behavior.

Ask my kids what a mean, grumpy son-of-bitch I can be.