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Wiggly
Feb 19th, 2012, 10:11 PM
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/azarenka-slams-weak-people-after-thrashing-stosur-to-claim-qatar-title-20120220-1thrq.html

Azarenka slams 'weak people' after thrashing Stosur to claim Qatar title
February 20, 2012 - 8:28AM

Victoria Azarenka isn't about to stop her loud noises during tennis matches and says any opponent who might try to blame it for losing are "weak people".

The top-ranked Belarusian makes a high-pitched noise when she hits the ball, drawing increased criticism during her run to the Australian Open title with some fans even mimicking her at Rod Laver Arena.

The issue has attracted the attention of the WTA, which plans to look at ways of reducing the noise levels made by players.

On a 17-match winning streak after claiming the Qatar Open on Sunday, Azarenka says the hooting comes naturally.

She says anyone blaming a loss on her "grunting or whatever, you know, it's up to them. I think they're just weak people".

Azarenka extended her domination over Australia's Samantha Stosur to win her third successive title of the year at the WTA Qatar Open overnight.

The Australian Open champion showed no signs of discomfort from her overnight injury scare in the semi-finals against Agnieszka Radwanska by beating Stosur 6-1 6-2 in a one-sided final to extend her unbeaten streak in 2012 to 17.

The Qatar Open was Azarenka's 11th career title, 10 of them coming on hard courts.

Third seed Stosur left the tournament as the first Australian woman to earn more than $10 million in career prizemoney.

**************

Thoughts?

goldenlox
Feb 19th, 2012, 10:18 PM
I think Vika has to accept that she's going to be asked about grunting. A lot. Thats what the media does. Look for controversy.

spiceboy
Feb 19th, 2012, 10:20 PM
Thoughts?

Yes. You are an attention wh*re.

She doesn't slam weak people, but whinning players who blame their losses to other player's grunting.

What a nasty way to manipulate :rolleyes:

LightWarrior
Feb 19th, 2012, 10:21 PM
I hope that she doesn't think the crowd and tv viewers are "weak people". lol

Wiggly
Feb 19th, 2012, 10:26 PM
Yes. You are an attention wh*re.

She doesn't slam weak people, but whinning players who blame their losses to other player's grunting.

What a nasty way to manipulate :rolleyes:

That's the article's title?
And you can also make the argument that if you feel the need to shriek to gain whatever edge it gives you, that's weak too.

spiceboy
Feb 19th, 2012, 10:27 PM
That's the article's title?
And you can also make the argument that if you feel the need to shriek to gain whatever edge it gives you, that's weak too.

Yeah, both the article and the thread title are manipulative.

jameshazza
Feb 19th, 2012, 10:29 PM
Well, she's yapped and bitched and tantrumed most of her career. NID what she said is 100% correct, but her new mental composure hasn't been around long enough for her to act like she's a mental GOAT when not so long ago she was one of the people she now criticizes.

Sammo
Feb 19th, 2012, 10:30 PM
I always knew she was a crazy mental bitch :shrug:

Noctis
Feb 19th, 2012, 10:31 PM
Aga and JJ is weak? no more friendship now

C. Drone
Feb 19th, 2012, 10:35 PM
sounds like feeling comfy in that #1 place already :spit:
until she starts losing often or acting way more confrontational, she can say or do anything she want, she gets free pass since she is new darling of tennisworld. :shrug:

imo, even if I cant stand her or her annoying sound, I like that the #1 is shrieking and making people more pissed.

Break My Rapture
Feb 19th, 2012, 10:36 PM
She's basically saying "get over it". This noise controversy is sooooooooo:zzz:oooo milked out and prolonged.

And she's right, the grunting supposedly only becomes an issue when opponents are losing. When they're winning, I suppose it gives them a good feeling that they're able to beat an opponent even when they're at an "disadvantage" (:weirdo:). It's all in the head.

IF (going out on a limb here) the WTA starts implementing decibel trackers or whatever on the umpires in the future, and whenever the decibels go above the desired amount they have to give a point penalty, tennis will be a fluke of epic chaos. The WTA will get criticism for both letting technology ruin the sport and dealing with the noise the wrong way.

RenaPova
Feb 19th, 2012, 10:47 PM
I agree with Azarenka, although that sounds like she's slamming Radwanska more than "weak people". Jankovic will complain about anything so grunting is just one on a long list so she doesn't count.


Well, she's yapped and bitched and tantrumed most of her career. NID what she said is 100% correct, but her new mental composure hasn't been around long enough for her to act like she's a mental GOAT when not so long ago she was one of the people she now criticizes.

This also

plokploky
Feb 19th, 2012, 10:58 PM
:cheer:stosur has over $10 million dollars.



Also, the grunting debate is becoming almost as pointless as the 'real' number 1 debate was getting.

The Dawntreader
Feb 19th, 2012, 11:08 PM
The Azarenka fans snapping at the heels at anyone who even looks sideways at Azarenka these days:lol:

sammy01
Feb 19th, 2012, 11:42 PM
NID vika would let number 1 and winning a slam feed her ego.

BillFromRichmond
Feb 19th, 2012, 11:49 PM
Winners do whatever it takes to be successful. Losers/weak people do not and then complain about it.

I'll take the winner any day of the week.

AliceMariaRenka
Feb 19th, 2012, 11:49 PM
I always knew she was a crazy mental bitch :shrug:

But you could still be a fan!

Miracle Worker
Feb 19th, 2012, 11:55 PM
No, they're not weak people.

They're just not deaf.

Jane Lane
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:01 AM
:yawn: Another grunting thread. I read the title and thought you're getting on Vika's case for bashing Peruvian midgets or something.

CloudAtlas
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:20 AM
This is probably quite tame compared to what is going to come once she starts playing bigger events as the #1 player and still gets asked about this. The media don't ask these repetitive questions to be inquisitive, they simply want a reaction from a player that will make a good headline after the player tires of them and eventually snaps. So far Vika seems to be feeding into their hands perfectly. A couple more months of the same questions and she'll do one better and probably have tantrum in the press room, or so I hope :devil:

Apoleb
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:23 AM
So basically one banshee thinks she's too important to stop what she has in mind, and the other one thinks she can do anything as long as the other player doesn't suck it up and beat her.

I suggest a revolution by the anti-grunting players in which they constantly complain of that stuff to the umpires.

s teddy
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:24 AM
I won't comment on the grunting issue itself, but I must say that winning her first slam seriously seems to have gotten to this girl's head. It's one thing to defend grunting; it's quite another to start insulting those who don't like it. :tape:

jameshazza
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:24 AM
So basically one banshee thinks she's too important to stop what she has in mind, and the other one thinks she can do anything as long as the other player doesn't suck it up and beat her.

I suggest a revolution by the anti-grunting players in which they constantly complain of that stuff to the umpires.

:confused:
Aren't you a Vika stan now that she won AO?

hankqq
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:30 AM
I take issue with this, because during this year's AO, Azarenka was complaining to the umpire during 1 match that the crowd was making too much noise! :lol: How can you go out there and howl and shriek and then be annoyed if the crowd is noisy too? If the crowd's noise distracts her, how can she not think her grunt is also distracting?

Tennisation
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:47 AM
Bring on the hataz. What she said is true, if you get your ass whooped and complained that it's the other person's grunting that made you lost, then you a weak sauce indeed.

*JR*
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:51 AM
Its neither Vika's responsibility nor Sam's to regulate what is and isn't "hindrance", the tour (and the ITF) have the authority to. I'd guess this year they'll take the first step on this, where violations could result in warnings and eventually penalties.

Though as umps almost never enforce the time limit between serves, I'm skeptical that they will on grunting. (Especially against a Masha who Yuri would give signals from the stands to like a 3rd base coach in baseball). :o

mac47
Feb 20th, 2012, 01:30 AM
I swear I will dance in the streets if the WTA ever puts the kibosh on this screaming. Bad enough that Pova and Vika shriek, but they are even totally unashamed of their orgasmic noises, and sling snide insults at anyone who questions them!

No, I have no real hope that it will ever be corrected.

Cajka
Feb 20th, 2012, 01:34 AM
they are even totally unashamed of their orgasmic noises

"HuHuuuuuuu" is orgasmic noise to you? :spit: What kind of orgasms do you have? :scared:

brickhousesupporter
Feb 20th, 2012, 01:54 AM
I think Vika has to accept that she's going to be asked about grunting. A lot. Thats what the media does. Look for controversy.
Have you jumped off the Caro bandwagon and hitching your cart to Vika now?

Excelscior
Feb 20th, 2012, 01:59 AM
Have you jumped off the Caro bandwagon and hitching your cart to Vika now?

Many of them have seemed to do that.

Like I said before, "I guess a captain always knows when his ship is bursting with holes, taking on water and sinking to oblivion".

I guessed they hitched a ride on another one, while stranded at sea, some where near the outskirts of Doha? Go Figure? Shrugs.

Dugavljan
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:13 AM
sure they are.

metamorpha
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:21 AM
Seems like Sharapova and Azarenka are singled out. Why people never talk about Schiavone's or Wickmayer's grunt, for example? I guess it's because Schiavone's grunt simply doesn't sound as offensive as those two. Sharapova is the worst though, not only she's screaming, she really did it on purpose to distract her opponent. Sometimes she can be silent during the point and she didn't grunt during practice. The press should go further throwing the bait by asking why she didn't scream all the time? And also, why she started to scream uncontrollably after winning Wimby 2004?

Azarenka doesn't scream but her grunt is high pitched. It sounds ridiculously distracting if you hear it on TV. My friends who rarely watched tennis asked who was that making noise like crazy when they heard Sharapova and Azarenka on TV.

SwingVolley93
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:23 AM
:oh:

young_gunner913
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:25 AM
There's no reason to single Vika out regardless of how annoying one may or may not find her grunt. They should ask this question to a lot of other players both on the WTA and ATP as well.

Jane Lane
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:31 AM
There's no reason to single Vika out regardless of how annoying one may or may not find her grunt. They should ask this question to a lot of other players both on the WTA and ATP as well.

I'm agreeing with you.

It IS 2012. :help:

young_gunner913
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:36 AM
I'm agreeing with you.

It IS 2012. :help:

KRzMtlZjXpU

:kiss::kiss:

Dominic
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:48 AM
She could have said it a bit nicer but she's right in a way.

jameshazza
Feb 20th, 2012, 03:11 AM
Does nobody else love all the bullshit ''friend who doesn't watch much tennis'' and ''friend who doesn't follow tennis'' anecdotes regarding Vika and Masha matches :lol:

Cajka
Feb 20th, 2012, 03:21 AM
Does nobody else love all the bullshit ''friend who doesn't watch much tennis'' and ''friend who doesn't follow tennis'' anecdotes regarding Vika and Masha matches :lol:

Actually, it happened to me few days ago. :lol: My friend who doesn't follow tennis (:oh:) was pretty shocked when she heard Vika. But my other friends who follow tennis don't give a shit about it. Neither do I.

Charlatan
Feb 20th, 2012, 03:24 AM
Bring on the hataz. What she said is true, if you get your ass whooped and complained that it's the other person's grunting that made you lost, then you a weak sauce indeed.

but ain't you the one bashing sharapova for her shrieking? is your last name radwanska?

Smitten
Feb 20th, 2012, 03:44 AM
Azarenka is weak herself.

Tennisation
Feb 20th, 2012, 04:05 AM
but ain't you the one bashing sharapova for her shrieking? is your last name radwanska?First off, Sharapova doesn't grunt, she straight up scream! Second, even if I find her scream more annoying, I've never said her opponent lost because she was distracting them. In fact, I find her amusing when she's getting her ass whipped and her plan B was to scream louder.

tennisbum79
Feb 20th, 2012, 05:22 AM
Whow, she is getting bold.
See what winning GS slam can do for you?

Gilas.
Feb 20th, 2012, 05:30 AM
Poor Aga, being insulted in the media by your BFF :hug:
I can imagine her and Caro eating cookie dough flavored ice cream while listening to Adele while in tears right about now :sad:

hingisGOAT
Feb 20th, 2012, 05:49 AM
Does nobody else love all the bullshit ''friend who doesn't watch much tennis'' and ''friend who doesn't follow tennis'' anecdotes regarding Vika and Masha matches :lol:

Except it's totally true :help: If someone who doesn't watch tennis walks into the room and hears Azarenka's "EEEEEEUUUUUU-UUU-UUU-UUU" it can be pretty embarassing (until you explain that you find it completely retarded as well)

jameshazza
Feb 20th, 2012, 05:54 AM
Yeah but everytime this issue comes up I see a 'lil anecdote, if their friends walked in on tennis matches during Vika and Masha matches so many times I'd think they'd know who they were. Also most people who don't follow tennis know who Maria Sharapova is and know her grunt.

metamorpha
Feb 20th, 2012, 05:59 AM
Nope. They don't.

jameshazza
Feb 20th, 2012, 06:01 AM
Nope. They don't.

:lol:

tenn_ace
Feb 20th, 2012, 06:04 AM
Yes. You are an attention wh*re.

She doesn't slam weak people, but whinning players who blame their losses to other player's grunting.

What a nasty way to manipulate :rolleyes:


Says someone who just opened a thread Jelena Dokic: Once a brat, always a brat to bitch about player who decided to go to bed early rather than to write an elaborate blog entry....
Get a grip - you're seriously losing it.

metamorpha
Feb 20th, 2012, 06:04 AM
Not sure what you laugh for. :confused:

stromatolite
Feb 20th, 2012, 06:59 AM
Nothing new here, this has been Vika's standard defense for years. Her new status as best player in the world allows her to be a little more forthright than in the past, but it's the same message. We've had this discussion countless times already, can't see any point in repeating it tbh.

Shadowcat
Feb 20th, 2012, 07:10 AM
:cheer:stosur has over $10 million dollars.

And couldn't even stop and sign for barely 10 minutes at the exhibition match here. :rolleyes:

Kunal
Feb 20th, 2012, 07:44 AM
hmm... not too sure id say that. its a tricky one because i feel like grunting can be stopped. i agree with her that people should not use that as an excuse for losses, but opponents that claim that it is distracting have a point. the game is better off without the grunting and the wta needs to buckle down and eradicate this.

DemiCrayanhan
Feb 20th, 2012, 08:10 AM
well, none of the complainers are "strong" enough to do anything to change the status quo, right? for instance, no one complained to umpires yet. so maybe vika has a point. just not the one she was making.

have you all read the chris evert article recently about how tucking the second tennis ball into your shorts began? if you remember, players used to keep both balls in hand while serving. basically, chris would drop the second ball to use both hands for a backhand shot if she made her first serve. billie jean complained that the ball rolling back towards the back wall distracted her. so chris had to change the way she played. was billie jean weak? i can't imagine anyone saying that ever.

the game is supposed to be played in silence, isn't it? players demand that from the audience. is it so stupid to think they expect that from their opponent too? since it's not offered, they can either learn to live with it or take the billie jean way. wta's clear they're not going to do anything about it. it's sad we haven't had anyone brave and determined enough to bring any kind of change/answers to wta since billie jean. not about noise in particular, but any issue you can think of. all we do is bitch about it all in press.

having said that, as a spectator, grunting/shrieking, whatever you call it, doesn't bother me at all. maybe i just got used to it. or maybe, as the new queen claims, i'm just too strong.

AliceMariaRenka
Feb 20th, 2012, 08:18 AM
well, none of the complainers are "strong" enough to do anything to change the status quo, right? for instance, no one complained to umpires yet. so maybe vika has a point. just not the one she was making.

have you all read the chris evert article recently about how tucking the second tennis ball into your shorts began? if you remember, players used to keep both balls in hand while serving. basically, chris would drop the second ball to use both hands for a backhand shot if she made her first serve. billie jean complained that the ball rolling back towards the back wall distracted her. so chris had to change the way she played. was billie jean weak? i can't imagine anyone saying that ever.

the game is supposed to be played in silence, isn't it? players demand that from the audience. is it so stupid to think they expect that from their opponent too? since it's not offered, they can either learn to live with it or take the billie jean way. wta's clear they're not going to do anything about it. it's sad we haven't had anyone brave and determined enough to bring any kind of change/answers to wta since billie jean. not about noise in particular, but any issue you can think of. all we do is bitch about it all in press.

having said that, as a spectator, grunting/shrieking, whatever you call it, doesn't bother me at all. maybe i just got used to it. or maybe, as the new queen claims, i'm just too strong.

I can't think of any physical sport that is played in silence, or why it should!

vixter
Feb 20th, 2012, 09:04 AM
She's basically saying "get over it". This noise controversy is sooooooooo:zzz:oooo milked out and prolonged.

Just like Azarenka's grunt.

I heard about someone who injured her vocal chords and needed surgery. That could happen to Azarenka too.

marineblue
Feb 20th, 2012, 09:11 AM
WTA is pure class nowadays:facepalm:

Thanos
Feb 20th, 2012, 09:32 AM
I always knew she was a crazy mental bitch :shrug:

this.

TennisFan66
Feb 20th, 2012, 09:36 AM
I think Vika has to accept that she's going to be asked about grunting. A lot. Thats what the media does. Look for controversy.

Aside that I personally would like to see something done against the screamers, I agree with your point entirely. Grunting is the obvious and easy to attack Azarenka achilles heel and she better get used to being asked this question at every single PC.

Media couldn't care less about 'real #1', 'slamless #1', 'grunters', 'screamers' whatever, but they do care about provoking a reaction, so Azarenka better be up for the challenge.

Sean.
Feb 20th, 2012, 09:41 AM
This is coming from the girl who used to retire every other match? :tape:

Sam L
Feb 20th, 2012, 09:43 AM
Weak person ------------> http://ww2.fft.fr/archives/evenements2004/CD-FranceCroatie/photos0802/tauziat.jpg

DemiCrayanhan
Feb 20th, 2012, 09:47 AM
I can't think of any physical sport that is played in silence, or why it should!

i completely agree. maybe tennis would be more popular if it allowed football/basketball like crowd participation, who knows? but silence has always been required. that is why i find it funny when grunters request audience to pipe down. pot/kettle and all.

doujyr
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:00 AM
that is why i find it funny when grunters request audience to pipe down.


:worship:

Patrick345
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:07 AM
Who cares about this guy. Vika made it to CNN WorldSports yesterday with another grunting episode.

Journo: Do do you thinking the grunting is a distraction and should it be stopped.
Vika: I canīt stop grunting. Itīs natural to me. Let me ask you a question. Do you snore?
Journo: Uh yes.
Vika: Does your wife like that. I guess you have a wife, right?
Journo: No she doesnīt like it.
Vika: So why donīt you stop snoring?

:worship::worship:

backhandsmash
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:10 AM
Who cares about this guy. Vika made it to CNN WorldSports yesterday with another grunting episode.

Journo: Do do you thinking the grunting is a distraction and should it be stopped.
Vika: I canīt stop grunting. Itīs natural to me. Let me ask you a question. Do you snore?
Journo: Uh yes.
Vika: Does your wife like that. I guess you have a wife, right?
Journo: No she doesnīt like it.
Vika: So why donīt you stop snoring?

:worship::worship:

Did you make that up? :)

Patrick345
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:13 AM
Did you make that up? :)

No it was on WorldSports yesterday, which was on after that tennis show with PatCash. That show had a Caro portray, that left me confused that the gay community of the forum is not gushing over her brother. The hate for her is really strong. :lol:

Kworb
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:16 AM
She's the one who's weak, for being unable and unwilling to change. She doesn't care about other players, doesn't care about the fans, doesn't care about the destruction of her own sport. She is just collecting her millions and then at the end of her career when the WTA has gone bankrupt because no one watches women's tennis anymore, she will walk away from the ruins, again without a care in the world. Never mind all the jobs lost. Never mind all the many millions of people who have loved tennis all their lives, but now only have the ATP to watch. Never mind all the poor little girls who will have to give up on their dream because tennis is no longer an option. Azarenka has a cold and uncaring heart. And the more we beg of her to silence her demonic cry, the louder it will become.

backhandsmash
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:21 AM
No it was on WorldSports yesterday, which was on after that tennis show with PatCash.

Okay. I just found it odd that the journo's didn't bone her about the snore comparison. :lol:

sammy01
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:24 AM
Who cares about this guy. Vika made it to CNN WorldSports yesterday with another grunting episode.

Journo: Do do you thinking the grunting is a distraction and should it be stopped.
Vika: I canīt stop grunting. Itīs natural to me. Let me ask you a question. Do you snore?
Journo: Uh yes.
Vika: Does your wife like that. I guess you have a wife, right?
Journo: No she doesnīt like it.
Vika: So why donīt you stop snoring?

:worship::worship:

really cus i seem to remember a silent vika against bartoli at the YEC.

comparing grunting to snoring just shows what a bint she is :help:

Rest Maria!
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:29 AM
Shameless cheater is shameless.

Bronx19
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:40 AM
Opponents need to complain and umpires need to have the authority to give warnings.

Its so easy.

Setsuna.
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:46 AM
Who cares about this guy. Vika made it to CNN WorldSports yesterday with another grunting episode.

Journo: Do do you thinking the grunting is a distraction and should it be stopped.
Vika: I canīt stop grunting. Itīs natural to me. Let me ask you a question. Do you snore?
Journo: Uh yes.
Vika: Does your wife like that. I guess you have a wife, right?
Journo: No she doesnīt like it.
Vika: So why donīt you stop snoring?

:worship::worship:

Comparing grunting to snoring. :facepalm:

Patrick345
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:46 AM
Opponents need to complain and umpires need to have the authority to give warnings.

Its so easy.

Right. Iīd love to see the WTA Tour without Azarenka, Sharapova, Clijsters, Serena, Petkovic, the ATP Tour without Nadal, Djokovic, Ferrer and so on, because some challenger tour scrub doesnīt like grunting. This is a business, not fantasyland. Seles grunted 20 years ago and the Tour is still here.

LCS
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:50 AM
What people fail to mention is that there are microphones on court that probably increase the noise, making it much more audible than it would normally be... just saying..

Siderophyre
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:56 AM
Oh come on. If Serena had said something like that people would be on here saying that it was "epic". If the people she is calling weak have any balls at all they should be motivated by this comment to get off their arses and work harder so they can beat her.

The WTA finally has a worthy number one and they certainly won't be doing anything about grunting in the forseeable.

bobito
Feb 20th, 2012, 11:57 AM
Who cares about this guy. Vika made it to CNN WorldSports yesterday with another grunting episode.

Journo: Do do you thinking the grunting is a distraction and should it be stopped.
Vika: I canīt stop grunting. Itīs natural to me. Let me ask you a question. Do you snore?
Journo: Uh yes.
Vika: Does your wife like that. I guess you have a wife, right?
Journo: No she doesnīt like it.
Vika: So why donīt you stop snoring?

The obvious response would have been:

Journo: Because I don't snore with the deliberate intention of keeping my wife awake.:shrug:

Break My Rapture
Feb 20th, 2012, 11:58 AM
Who cares about this guy. Vika made it to CNN WorldSports yesterday with another grunting episode.

Journo: Do do you thinking the grunting is a distraction and should it be stopped.
Vika: I canīt stop grunting. Itīs natural to me. Let me ask you a question. Do you snore?
Journo: Uh yes.
Vika: Does your wife like that. I guess you have a wife, right?
Journo: No she doesnīt like it.
Vika: So why donīt you stop snoring?

:worship::worship:
LMAO. :bowdown: Effortlessly snatching weaves off the court now too.

StoneRose
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:07 PM
Who cares about this guy. Vika made it to CNN WorldSports yesterday with another grunting episode.

Journo: Do do you thinking the grunting is a distraction and should it be stopped.
Vika: I canīt stop grunting. Itīs natural to me. Let me ask you a question. Do you snore?
Journo: Uh yes.
Vika: Does your wife like that. I guess you have a wife, right?
Journo: No she doesnīt like it.
Vika: So why donīt you stop snoring?

:worship::worship::lol:. Not sure if you didn't make that up.

Chrissie-fan
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:10 PM
The obvious response would have been:

Journo: Because I don't snore with the deliberate intention of keeping my wife awake.:shrug:
Yes, but Vika doesn't shriek with the deliberate intention of annoying her opponents either. That doesn't mean that it doesn't disturb them or that they don't have a right to complain about it if it does, but to say that that's why she's doing it is probably taking it a bit too far. ;)

Jimmie48
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:15 PM
I wish people would stop beating that dead horse. Grunting is part of women's tennis, Vika isn't the first top player to do it and she surely won't be the last.

Apoleb
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:17 PM
Next she will tell us that she was born this way.

Patrick345
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:20 PM
:lol:. Not sure if you didn't make that up.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/victoria-azarenka-hits-back-over-tennis-grunting/story-e6frep5o-1226275815125

Oh and here the quote "weak people" is attributed to players, who in a hypothetical secenario would use is as an excuse for losing to her. She didnīt even call anyone specifically weak, but guess that wouldnīt have been spicy for the lame writer of the other article.

Bronx19
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:22 PM
Right. Iīd love to see the WTA Tour without Azarenka, Sharapova, Clijsters, Serena, Petkovic, the ATP Tour without Nadal, Djokovic, Ferrer and so on, because some challenger tour scrub doesnīt like grunting. This is a business, not fantasyland. Seles grunted 20 years ago and the Tour is still here.

You think they're leaving if they cant scream?

Patrick345
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:31 PM
You think they're leaving if they cant scream?

No they donīt stop and get disqualified after two games in their 1st round match. Can you imagine what damage that does to tennis and the tournaments. They sell tickets and Nadal/Djokovic get themselves disqualified for grunting and timewasting against Denis Istomin and Michael Berrer in the first round of a Grand Slam. The fans would kill the Tour, the media leeches would jump ship and suddenly attack the Tours for punishing their best players. I canīt believe how many fans follow the media on this boring witchhunt. They didnīt do anything about it 20 years ago, when one elite player and maybe 5-10 players in the top 100 on both tours grunted, they wonīt do anything now, when over 50% of the players make a noise one way or the other.

bobito
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:32 PM
Yes, but Vika doesn't shriek with the deliberate intention of annoying her opponents either. That doesn't mean that it doesn't disturb them or that they don't have a right to complain about it if it does, but to say that that's why she's doing it is probably taking it a bit too far. ;)

Of course Azarenka says she doesn't shriek with the deliberate intention of hindering her opponents. That doesn't necessarily make it so.

Jimmie48
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:33 PM
Of course Azarenka says she doesn't shriek with the deliberate intention of hindering her opponents. That doesn't necessarily make it so.

You can't prove her wrong either though, making this a moot point.

stromatolite
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:36 PM
Yes, but Vika doesn't shriek with the deliberate intention of annoying her opponents either. That doesn't mean that it doesn't disturb them or that they don't have a right to complain about it if it does, but to say that that's why she's doing it is probably taking it a bit too far. ;)

We've covered all this in other threads, and all the same arguments are getting wheeled out (it's natural, get over it, only losers complain, grunter makes witty comment in interview thus proving it's far cooler to grunt than not to grunt, etc.) but you are always a lot more reasonable than most people here so I think it's worth responding to your post.

Whether the origins are a deliberate attempt to put opponents off, grunters like Vika are very aware of the discussion, but don't even make an attempt to tone it down (which they demonstrably can if they want to). I don't have anything in general against Vika, but she loses quite some respect in my eyes by these latest statements.

Excelscior
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:40 PM
Comparing grunting to snoring. :facepalm:

I don't have any definitive feelings on banning grunting myself (though I probably wish they would stop). Some of them are just too loud, annoying and guttural for my taste.

But (yeah) that comparison was a little childish and misguided, especially said directly to that reporter. SMH

If it was a proper tennis broadcaster like Brad Gilbert or Pam Shriver, he/she would of probably came right back at her after that silly comment.

I know what she's trying to say. She's trying to say it's as natural to her as snoring is to him. But not only was that a dumb, insensitive statement (snoring can be a medical, besides a truly natural, sometimes sensitive, embarrassing issue); we've seen Victoria play Cake last year in Istanbul and not Grunt. I'm sure she practices/hits that way as well (silently). So we know it's not truly natural to her.

A snorer can't sleep and do that (sleep in silence or control it themselves, when they do).

Bad example; for several reasons!

Rest Maria!
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:41 PM
You can't prove her wrong either though, making this a moot point.
There's a video of 13 years old Azarenka making no noise during the match. She lies about shrieking since she was a little kid, she lies about shrieking not to give her competitive edge.

gulzhan
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:44 PM
Atta girl :yeah: Keep the titles coming, Vika! :woohoo:

Jimmie48
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:45 PM
There's a video of 13 years old Azarenka making no noise during the match. She lies about shrieking since she was a little kid, she lies about shrieking not to give her competitive edge.

Come on, that's kind of a stretch. Her play will have changed massively since she was 13 and if she says it's a mental thing and she needs it to give 100% then we have to believe her.

Again, why is this still being discussed? Countless slam winners have been shrieking through their career, it's a part of tennis. I really don't see the need for fake outrage.

bobito
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:46 PM
You can't prove her wrong either though, making this a moot point.

If Azarenka is deliberately screaming to hinder her opponents then you would hardly expect her to admit to it. Her protestations that she does it naturally and not deliberately would be made whether true or not.

For decades no player found it "natural" to scream at the top of their lungs every time they hit the ball. Then one elite player is allowed to get away with it and spawns a bunch of copycats. That suggests to me that they are doing it deliberately.

Patrick345
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:59 PM
Honestly do you people ever think this through from the point of the tours from a practical standpoint? If they say making a noise is hinderance youīd have players complain after or during every rally. Nadal and Djokovic, basically in every long rally they make a sound. Do you want a player to make a hinderance challenge on every single point, cause thatīs what would happen. What is intentional, what is unintentional, what is hinderance, what is not? The only solution to level the playing field is to forbid ANY noise and that is never ever going to happen. At what point would you start disqualifying players? This is such a stupid media creation that has no practical relevance.

If Azarenka and Sharapova canīt make a noise, neither can Nadal and Djokovic or any challenger level player ranked #572 in the world. Just because the lame journalists donīt care about them or hear them, doesnīt mean they donīt make a sound and allegedly hinder their opponents. The Tours will never change the rules for the four weeks tabloid writers are forced to care about womenīs tennis, and have nothing original to write about, since they canīt wank over Kournikova.

Chrissie-fan
Feb 20th, 2012, 01:05 PM
Of course Azarenka says she doesn't shriek with the deliberate intention of hindering her opponents. That doesn't necessarily make it so.
Well, let's just say that I'm willing to give Azarenka, Sharapova and co the benefit of the doubt and accept that they don't do it for that reason. But ultimately it doesn't really matter why they do it. The only thing that really matters is not the intentions of the grunter but the hindrance caused (or not caused depending on which side of the argument one is on) to her opponent.

homogenius
Feb 20th, 2012, 01:09 PM
Honestly do you people ever think this through from the point of the tours from a practical standpoint? If they say making a noise is hinderance youīd have players complain after or during every rally. Nadal and Djokovic, basically in every long rally they make a sound. Do you want a player to make a hinderance challenge on every single point, cause thatīs what would happen. What is intentional, what is unintentional, what is hinderance, what is not? The only solution to level the playing field is to forbid ANY noise and that is never ever going to happen. At what point would you start disqualifying players? This is such a stupid media creation that has no practical relevance.

If Azarenka and Sharapova canīt make a noise, neither can Nadal and Djokovic or any challenger level player ranked #572 in the world. Just because the lame journalists donīt care about them or hear them, doesnīt mean they donīt make a sound and allegedly hinder their opponents. The Tours will never change the rules for the four weeks tabloid writers are forced to care about womenīs tennis, and have nothing original to write about, since they canīt wank over Kournikova.

I agree it would be difficult to do something against it but that doesn't change the fact that there is a difference between what Vika, Maria and some others do and making some noise cause of an effort.They're clearly doing it on purpose and that shoulnd't be allowed, and it seems more and more journalists are pointing out that difference (I was watching Tsonga vs Dancevic the other day and french commentators talked about how they saw Maria during Paris's event having a great, intense 45 mn pratice session without a single noise coming out of her mouth, and that she shireks during matches on purpose).Besides the fact that it's quite annoying for the audience, something should be done against players using this to disturb the opponent (in one way or the other)during matches.

Chrissie-fan
Feb 20th, 2012, 01:22 PM
Whether the origins are a deliberate attempt to put opponents off, grunters like Vika are very aware of the discussion, but don't even make an attempt to tone it down (which they demonstrably can if they want to). I don't have anything in general against Vika, but she loses quite some respect in my eyes by these latest statements.
Yes, but I don't think she has that many options in terms of answering that question. She can either say "no comment", say something that shows her annoyance or try to say something amusing. The last of these options was probbly the best to go for. Best of all would be of course if she would just stop grunting, but that's not really in the cards, is it? No grunter is going to tone it down as long as there ain't a rule that forbids them from doing it.

Patrick345
Feb 20th, 2012, 01:22 PM
I agree it would be difficult to do something against it but that doesn't change the fact that there is a difference between what Vika, Maria and some others do and making some noise cause of an effort.They're clearly doing it on purpose and that shoulnd't be allowed, and it seems more and more journalists are pointing out that difference (I was watching Tsonga vs Dancevic the other day and french commentators talked about how they saw Maria during Paris's event having a great, intense 45 mn pratice session without a single noise coming out of her mouth, and that she shireks during matches on purpose).Besides the fact that it's quite annoying for the audience, something should be done against players using this to disturb the opponent (in one way or the other)during matches.

I like the Sharapova example, because honestly it illustrates that she basically gains no advantage from the noise. There is not a more monotonous player in the world elite. The only time she ever disguises her "intentions" is on mishits. So itīs a bit ridiculous to say she gains an advantage. Itīs not like she is trying to disguise dropshots, short balls or changes of pace. What you hear is what you get, every single time. Bash left, bash right, bash left, bash right. For me deliberation would suggest a player can adjust and makes a noise to disguise the kind of shot heīs about to play. I think that is taking the whole idea a bit too far and is virtually impossible to do. It would suggest young players learn this like a serve, forehand or backhand. Maybe that explains the deterioration of volleying skills. Kids learn grunting techniques instead. ;)

pov
Feb 20th, 2012, 01:23 PM
She says anyone blaming a loss on her "grunting or whatever, you know, it's up to them. I think they're just weak people".

:yeah: I agree with her. 100%. So far no solid top player has ever griped about it. And the hardcore "anti-grunting" faction of fans and the media are uptight wussies IMO.

Chrissie-fan
Feb 20th, 2012, 01:35 PM
For decades no player found it "natural" to scream at the top of their lungs every time they hit the ball. Then one elite player is allowed to get away with it and spawns a bunch of copycats. That suggests to me that they are doing it deliberately.
They may be doing it deliberately, but that still doesn't mean that they do it to hinder their opponents. They may be doing it deliberately because they feel it helps THEM play better without the intention of causing hindrance to their opponent. And let's not forget that no matter what the intentions of these players may or may not be, they are not breaking any existing rules - or if there are any nobody cares to implement them, which is basically the same thing.

stromatolite
Feb 20th, 2012, 01:35 PM
Yes, but I don't think she has that many options in terms of answering that question. She can either say "no comment", say something that shows her annoyance or try to say something amusing. The last of these options was probbly the best to go for. Best of all would be of course if she would just stop grunting, but that's not really in the cards, is it? No grunter is going to tone it down as long as there ain't a rule that forbids them from doing it.

The question is: if they could tone it down (and I believe there is enough evidence of people like Vika practicing without grunting, and even going through extended gruntless periods during matches, to suggest that they could easily take a few decibels off without it hindering their performance as such), why wouldn't they want to?

I can think of two possible reasons. First, they could be aware that it is distracting their opponents, and not want to give up that advantage. Second, they may fear that if they give a finger the WTA will want the whole arm. In other words if they grunt less they will be admitting that grunting is something they can control if they want to, and they may fear that this will increase the risk of an outright ban.

kaoru-no-kimi
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:16 PM
^ I think there's also the aspect of them having done something for years which has been deemed acceptable by the tennis authorities (through their inaction), yet the media constantly goes on about it in sometimes pretty over the top ways. I think that would make me dig my heels in a bit and refuse to change to be honest.

Chrissie-fan
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:19 PM
^ I think there's also the aspect of them having done something for years which has been deemed acceptable by the tennis authorities (through their inaction), yet the media constantly goes on about it in sometimes pretty over the top ways. I think that would make me dig my heels in a bit and refuse to change to be honest.
Yeah, that's a good point, actually.

pov
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:27 PM
Of course Azarenka says she doesn't shriek with the deliberate intention of hindering her opponents. That doesn't necessarily make it so.

So . . a player has a match against someone who they know grunts loudly. The grunts happen on every shot, so are more or less continuous . .and that player is being hindered? :haha: People need to think things through.To hinder someone you'd have to make a loud noise only at crucial points so it would be a surprise and throw them off-balance. Any player who, after one game, with someone grunting loudly is still consciously processing the sound has problems with their own mental focus.

stromatolite
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:30 PM
^ I think there's also the aspect of them having done something for years which has been deemed acceptable by the tennis authorities (through their inaction), yet the media constantly goes on about it in sometimes pretty over the top ways. I think that would make me dig my heels in a bit and refuse to change to be honest.

You may be right, up to point. You're certainly right about the inaction of the tennis authorities. I think they are in kind of the same bind as the grunters. They would basically like the problem to go away, hence their head-in-sand response which makes it very difficult to have a sane discussion about it. It would help if they took a clear stand one way or another, or at least pledged to support a serious review of the issue, but they keep fudging, which means that the only place the discussion can take place is in the media.

So you aren't right about this being a media-driven thing. The media is only picking up on what players, ex-players and fans are saying, and have been saying ever since grunting arrived on the scene. The fact that the media is mostly only interested in the muckraking potential of this subject doesn't make it any less important.

Jane Lane
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:36 PM
So . . a player has a match against someone who they know grunts loudly. The grunts happen on every shot, so are more or less continuous . .and that player is being hindered? :haha: People need to think things through.To hinder someone you'd have to make a loud noise only at crucial points so it would be a surprise and throw them off-balance. Any player who, after one game, with someone grunting loudly is still consciously processing the sound has problems with their own mental focus.

+1.

Chrissie-fan
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:48 PM
So you aren't right about this being a media-driven thing. The media is only picking up on what players, ex-players and fans are saying, and have been saying ever since grunting arrived on the scene. The fact that the media is mostly only interested in the muckraking potential of this subject doesn't make it any less important.
No, but he's/she's probably right about the "dig my heels" part. The idea of, "I'm the player here and this Peter Bodo (or whoever) is not gonna tell me what I can or can't do on a tennis court."

stromatolite
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:56 PM
No, but he's/she's probably right about the "dig my heels" part. The idea of, "I'm the player here and this Peter Bodo (or whoever) is not gonna tell me what I can or can't do on a tennis court."

Meh, I don't buy this. The issue is not what they say to Peter Bodo, it's what they do. They are aware of the issue, and they could tone down their grunting if they wanted to. I don't think they are grunting louder than they need to just to piss Peter Bodo off. But at the end of the day I think the blame rests far more with the WTA than with the grunters.

timafi
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:59 PM
Vika shut the fuck up already:weirdo:

kaoru-no-kimi
Feb 20th, 2012, 03:02 PM
You may be right, up to point. You're certainly right about the inaction of the tennis authorities. I think they are in kind of the same bind as the grunters. They would basically like the problem to go away, hence their head-in-sand response which makes it very difficult to have a sane discussion about it. It would help if they took a clear stand one way or another, or at least pledged to support a serious review of the issue, but they keep fudging, which means that the only place the discussion can take place is in the media.

So you aren't right about this being a media-driven thing. The media is only picking up on what players, ex-players and fans are saying, and have been saying ever since grunting arrived on the scene. The fact that the media is mostly only interested in the muckraking potential of this subject doesn't make it any less important.

But that's kind of my point - the main way they see the reaction to it day to day is filtered through the muckraking lens of the media because they've basically become the primary definers of the issue, even if they're not the ones who brought it up in the first place, so it's not surprising when the players get defensive about it. It seems to have become a case of trying to close the barn door after the horse has bolted while beating it to death at the same time.

I also definitely agree that there's an issue with the lack of an appropriate place to discuss this in a non-hysterical way. Patrick345's point about the practical issues with implementing an objective rule against it at this stage is really good, but it's never discussed at all in the media.

C. Drone
Feb 20th, 2012, 03:04 PM
Vika shut the fuck up already:weirdo:

i think she just getting started. More she spends on the top, more she speaks. :oh:

stromatolite
Feb 20th, 2012, 03:36 PM
But that's kind of my point - the main way they see the reaction to it day to day is filtered through the muckraking lens of the media because they've basically become the primary definers of the issue, even if they're not the ones who brought it up in the first place, so it's not surprising when the players get defensive about it. It seems to have become a case of trying to close the barn door after the horse has bolted while beating it to death at the same time.

I also definitely agree that there's an issue with the lack of an appropriate place to discuss this in a non-hysterical way. Patrick345's point about the practical issues with implementing an objective rule against it at this stage is really good, but it's never discussed at all in the media.

This is why the tennis authorities should stop fudging and tackle the issue head on for a change. The media is no place for this debate to be conducted, with all its complexities. Ideally they should appoint a committee of players, ex-players and tennis officials to look into the problem and come up with clear recommendations on how to deal with it.

Patrick345's point about practical issues only really applies to a player-driven solution such as Chris Evert recently suggested. I agree that this is very problematic for all kinds of reasons, and this may well mean that the problem is too complex to solve in the career span of currently active players. But it shouldn't be too difficult to phase in a rule that would be standardly enforced by umpires and would apply to the next generation of players. Umpires routinely have to make judgment calls on all kinds of things, and can probably make use of soundmeters to assist them, so I think they can handle this problem as well.

Although there are quite a few people here who claim that they like the grunting (I think they're confusing this with the fact that they like their faves, who happen to grunt), I can't imagine that anyone's enjoyment of tennis would be reduced if the next generation of players didn't grunt excessively. But for the transition from grunting to non-grunting (c.q. low-decibel grunting) to take place in a civilized fashion, the tennis authorities need to accept their responsibilities and take a clear stand. Then this stupid bickering might end.

matty
Feb 20th, 2012, 04:34 PM
I hope that she doesn't think the crowd and tv viewers are "weak people". lol

No kidding--I mean, I'm a big fan of her game and personality, but her hooting is just about the most annoying (for me anyway) of any of the players'.

dsanders06
Feb 20th, 2012, 04:37 PM
On this occasion, she's right.

True champions would have such a high level of concentration that they would be fully capable of tuning out the grunting. Anyone who claims they lost a match because their opponent was grunting is either fumbling around for any old excuse, or if they genuinely believe they were distracted by the grunting, they're so mentally weak that they allow themselves to be distracted by absolutely anything on court (Jankovic). People have made the argument that the grunting masks the level of spin a player puts on the ball - but with Azarenka and Sharapova, you know what level of spin you're going to be getting on each and every ball (very little). In fact, the only grunter who does regularly mix up the spins is Schiavone, so she's the only one who you could possibly claim benefits from the grunting (but funny how no-one gets on her case about it).

That said, I DO think there's a legitimate argument to be had about whether grunting should be outlawed for the sake of it putting off viewers, who obviously can't necessarily be expected to have the same level of concentration / tuning out that professional players have. I myself aren't bothered by the grunting, but I can respect those many viewers who do have a problem with it... and obviously the sport NEEDS to take into account viewers' opinions. * But to argue that grunters have actually won matches that they wouldn't if they didn't grunt? Give me a break :happy:


* I find it somewhat hypocritical odd that many of the people in this thread feigning outrage at the grunting and insisting that it's turning away casual viewers, are in many cases the exact same people who hysterically insist there can be no changes to the ranking system and say it doesn't matter that the casual tennis viewer thinks Wozniacki was never #1, and insists things shouldn't change just for the sake of the casual viewer :scratch:

C. Drone
Feb 20th, 2012, 04:58 PM
* I find it somewhat hypocritical odd that many of the people in this thread feigning outrage at the grunting and insisting that it's turning away casual viewers, are in many cases the exact same people who hysterically insist there can be no changes to the ranking system and say it doesn't matter that the casual tennis viewer thinks Wozniacki was never #1, and insists things shouldn't change just for the sake of the casual viewer :scratch:

you just described yourself if you change the place of some "no". ;)

stromatolite
Feb 20th, 2012, 05:10 PM
* I find it somewhat hypocritical odd that many of the people in this thread feigning outrage at the grunting and insisting that it's turning away casual viewers, are in many cases the exact same people who hysterically insist there can be no changes to the ranking system and say it doesn't matter that the casual tennis viewer thinks Wozniacki was never #1, and insists things shouldn't change just for the sake of the casual viewer :scratch:

Boy I knew you were pressed, but I didn't realize how far you were gone until I read this. What on earth has this got to do with anything at all here? If you really have to beat us all brainless with endless repetitions of your opinion about the ranking system (believe me, by now we all know what you think about that), do us a favour and keep it to the threads that are actually related to that topic. Please?

dsanders06
Feb 20th, 2012, 05:20 PM
Boy I knew you were pressed, but I didn't realize how far you were gone until I read this. What on earth has this got to do with anything at all here? If you really have to beat us all brainless with endless repetitions of your opinion about the ranking system (believe me, by now we all know what you think about that), do us a favour and keep it to the threads that are actually related to that topic. Please?

It's not directly related, I was just pointing out the total double standards you and others were operating under, and by a consequence questioning whether you truly believe grunting is affecting what casual viewers think or whether it's just your bitterness on your part that the "grunters" eclipse your faves' results when you don't apply the "casual-viewer test" to other aspects of the sport :)

PS: please do not use the word "pressed" when you evidently don't know what it means.

stromatolite
Feb 20th, 2012, 05:42 PM
It's not directly related, I was just pointing out the total double standards you and others were operating under, and by a consequence questioning whether you truly believe grunting is affecting what casual viewers think or whether it's just your bitterness on your part that the "grunters" eclipse your faves' results when you don't apply the "casual-viewer test" to other aspects of the sport :)

PS: please do not use the word "pressed" when you evidently don't know what it means.

Urban dictionary definitions of "pressed":

"Obsessed or attuned to a particular thing, idea, or person to an unseemly degree."

"In stan-war related lingo, to be pressed means to be obsessed with knocking down an artist's success to the point everyone knows how ridiculous and unfounded your claims are, making you look foolish, uneducated, illiterate, delusional, etc."

Maybe you have a different definition, but I think both of these apply to you (with in the latter the "artist" being guess who).

In any case you seem to be confused about the meaning of "double standard", which refers to the application of a different set of standards for similar situations. Like if I say for example it is okay for players to fart loudly while playing a point but not okay to grunt. Supporting the current ranking system is only a similar situation in your mind, which seems to be convinced that it is a diabolical plot by the Wozniacki family to bring the entire WTA into discredit.

jameshazza
Feb 20th, 2012, 05:47 PM
Masha, Venus, Serena sell out the tournaments and bring in the ratings.

Grunting doesn't deter viewers. Case closed.

davidmario
Feb 20th, 2012, 05:54 PM
hahaha she handles everything with style as always.

bobito
Feb 20th, 2012, 05:54 PM
It's not directly related, I was just pointing out the total double standards you and others were operating under, and by a consequence questioning whether you truly believe grunting is affecting what casual viewers think or whether it's just your bitterness on your part that the "grunters" eclipse your faves' results when you don't apply the "casual-viewer test" to other aspects of the sport

I can only speak from personal experience but I have never heard anyone, tennis message boards aside, complain about who the number 1 ranked player is. I suspect casual viewers neither know nor care. The status of the #1 ranking only seems to irk some tennis nuts. In contrast, I have heard many people who are not tennis nuts complain or poke fun at the noises made by some female players. It clearly has a detrimental effect on the credibility of the game.

Having said that, my objection to players screaming when they strike the ball is that it is against the rules and for good reason. That the tennis authorities choose not to enforce the hindrance rule makes the game a farce when such players are involved. Either the hindrance rule should be enforced or it should be done away with. If the latter, then people should be willing to accept a player bellowing "Miss it!" as their opponent is about to hit the ball or performing all manner of stunts to distract the opponent. I believe that would be ridiculous and therefore favour the enforcement option.

dsanders06
Feb 20th, 2012, 06:48 PM
Urban dictionary definitions of "pressed":

"Obsessed or attuned to a particular thing, idea, or person to an unseemly degree."

"In stan-war related lingo, to be pressed means to be obsessed with knocking down an artist's success to the point everyone knows how ridiculous and unfounded your claims are, making you look foolish, uneducated, illiterate, delusional, etc."

Maybe you have a different definition, but I think both of these apply to you (with in the latter the "artist" being guess who).

In any case you seem to be confused about the meaning of "double standard", which refers to the application of a different set of standards for similar situations. Like if I say for example it is okay for players to fart loudly while playing a point but not okay to grunt. Supporting the current ranking system is only a similar situation in your mind, which seems to be convinced that it is a diabolical plot by the Wozniacki family to bring the entire WTA into discredit.

I explained why you're applying double standards: because your argument for outlawing grunting is that casual viewers are being driven away from the game by it, yet you disregard the fact that casual viewers lose respect for the sport and think it's a joke when they see a player who isn't the best player in the world being ranked "#1". If you can't see that that's an "application of a different set of standards for similar situations" in that you only think casual viewers' views should settle argument when their views happen to be in line with your opinions, then I can't help you.

I can only speak from personal experience but I have never heard anyone, tennis message boards aside, complain about who the number 1 ranked player is. I suspect casual viewers neither know nor care. The status of the #1 ranking only seems to irk some tennis nuts. In contrast, I have heard many people who are not tennis nuts complain or poke fun at the noises made by some female players. It clearly has a detrimental effect on the credibility of the game.

Casual viewers don't care about the #1 spot being a sham as such, but it does mean they lose respect for the game: after Venus thrashed Safina in the Wimbledon semifinals in 2009, do you not remember the general public/media reaction in Britain being along the lines of "look! she's meant to be the best player in the world and she can only get a game off a Williams sister! Hahaha, women's tennis is such a joke".

Having said that, my objection to players screaming when they strike the ball is that it is against the rules and for good reason. That the tennis authorities choose not to enforce the hindrance rule makes the game a farce when such players are involved. Either the hindrance rule should be enforced or it should be done away with. If the latter, then people should be willing to accept a player bellowing "Miss it!" as their opponent is about to hit the ball or performing all manner of stunts to distract the opponent. I believe that would be ridiculous and therefore favour the enforcement option.

Grunting/screaming is not against the rules as it stands. If you want it to be against the rules, why is that? Do you really think most professional players, if they're champions, wouldn't be able to tune it out, just like they're able to tune out other distractions like crowd noise, etc.?

bobito
Feb 20th, 2012, 07:10 PM
Casual viewers don't care about the #1 spot being a sham as such, but it does mean they lose respect for the game: after Venus thrashed Safina in the Wimbledon semifinals in 2009, do you not remember the general public/media reaction in Britain being along the lines of "look! she's meant to be the best player in the world and she can only get a game off a Williams sister! Hahaha, women's tennis is such a joke".

No I don't. I suspect casual viewers back then neither knew nor cared that Safina was ranked #1. There might have been the kind of reaction you speak of in the tennis media and among tennis fans but I don't recall it being mentioned by anyone who didn't follow the game closely. Strangely, casual tennis fans have a rather better perspective on this than many tennis nerds. They seem to understand that tennis is a tournament based sport and that it is who wins the big tournaments that matters not who is seeded #1. They understand that Federer is great because of all the slams he won not the weeks he spent at the top of the ATP entry system.

Grunting/screaming is not against the rules as it stands. If you want it to be against the rules, why is that? Do you really think most professional players, if they're champions, wouldn't be able to tune it out, just like they're able to tune out other distractions like crowd noise, etc.?

From the ITF Rules of Tennis:
26. HINDRANCE
If a player is hindered in playing the point by a deliberate act of the opponent(s), the player shall win the point.

USTAComment 26.1:
What is the difference between a deliberate and an unintentional act?
Deliberate means a player did what the player intended to do, even if the result was unintended.

There have been more than enough players past and present (Evert and Navratilova among them) who have explained how an opponent screaming presents a hindrance. Most recently Jelena Jankovic explained it rather well: "The receiver feels like the ball is coming way faster than it is because of the grunt that comes with the ball. So you back up a little bit and you think this huge thing is coming at you, almost a bomb, and the ball doesn't really go that fast." Clearly some players are hindered by it. That makes it hindrance. It's time the rules were applied properly and fairly.

GoofyDuck
Feb 20th, 2012, 07:11 PM
ridiculous,

finding that fake shriek annoying doesn't make you weak, it makes you normal.

Balltossovic
Feb 20th, 2012, 07:41 PM
She's right. People don't lose matches because their opponent grunts. They lose matches because they lack the talent, game, and or fitness to compete with what's coming at them from across the net. I've seen Vika play live. It's no where near as loud as on TV. Just like you can't even hear Ana say Ajde! most of the time. Everything is magnified by the super sensitive microphones on court.

Do you really think you can hear the ball bouncing when a player is getting ready to serve? In a stadium full of chattering people, do you really think you can hear the players breathe?

Excuses, excuses. Both Sharapova and Azarenka have been on the tour for ages. People just need to STFU about this already:lol:

doomsday
Feb 20th, 2012, 07:43 PM
Same old shit, I can't believe some people respond seriously to this stupid thread.

gc-spurs
Feb 20th, 2012, 09:16 PM
She's not wrong.

*JR*
Feb 20th, 2012, 09:54 PM
USTAComment 26.1:
What is the difference between a deliberate and an unintentional act?
Deliberate means a player did what the player intended to do, even if the result was unintended.

There have been more than enough players past and present (Evert and Navratilova among them) who have explained how an opponent screaming presents a hindrance. Most recently Jelena Jankovic explained it rather well: "The receiver feels like the ball is coming way faster than it is because of the grunt that comes with the ball. So you back up a little bit and you think this huge thing is coming at you, almost a bomb, and the ball doesn't really go that fast." Clearly some players are hindered by it. That makes it hindrance. It's time the rules were applied properly and fairly.

For the record, I don't like grunting, shrieking, etc. That said, let me point out a possible flaw in JJ's logic on this. One can just as easily argue the exact opposite: that the ability not to fall for the illusion of greater ball speed itself is a valuable talent.

And that's not just theory, but analogous to @ least 2 major team sports. In American football, the QB will often vary the volume of the snap count (ala "Hut, Hut, Hut", though his team is told in the huddle the the ball shouldn't be snapped on the sudden loud one, but maybe on the next "Hut") to try and draw the defense offside for a penalty. (Sometimes it works, more often it doesn't).

In basketball, home crowds wave those silly foam things behind the basket a visiting team's free throw shooter is targeting. Again, ignoring this is discipline. Going back to football, home crowds try to make it hard for visiting teams to hear their own QB's snap count, generating penalties for false starts (or wasted time-outs). In other words, pro athletes need the discipline to ignore some level of distraction.

bobito
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:04 PM
JR - The difference is that American football and basketball don't have a hindrance rule, tennis does.

marineblue
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:06 PM
Tennis does have a hindrance rule. On paper,not in practice. And Azarenka knows that far too well. It is up to the players to speak up ON THE TENNIS COURT to change things. If they will not be bold enough to do so Azarenka and the likes will only get louder.

ivanban
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:29 PM
It could be dealt very easily. When Roland Garros or any Slam starts all players playing against notorious shriekers/screamers should stop playing, sit on their chair and refuse to continue the match until screamer/shrieker is given a penalty for hindrance. Period!

I understand grunting after some really amazing shot or something like that, but doing it all the time on casual shots...:smash:

Patrick345
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:42 PM
It could be dealt very easily. When Roland Garros or any Slam starts all players playing against notorious shriekers/screamers should stop playing, sit on their chair and refuse to continue the match until screamer/shrieker is given a penalty for hindrance. Period!

I understand grunting after some really amazing shot or something like that, but doing it all the time on casual shots...:smash:

You know what the ATP/WTA tell JJ, when she protests/mocks Azarenka/Sharapova during a match? That she can find another job. Is there any scientific research on this topic that the noise influences attendance or TV ratings? No. This is just some Australian/British tabloid BS. Every Grand Slam is setting new attendance records, building new stadiums with roofs and lights. If it is such a problem for fans, why are Seles and Sharapova among the most popular players?

Mynarco
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:48 PM
The whole grunt talk is really unnecessary because at the end of the day, there is nothing that can be done about it (difficult to implement any rules - how to decide a grunt is too much and therefore a hindrance?). People really need to get something else to talk about.

The weak people argument is a bit strange, but seriously professional tennis players shouldn't be bothered by it.

ivanban
Feb 20th, 2012, 10:49 PM
You know what the ATP/WTA tell JJ, when she protests/mocks Azarenka/Sharapova during a match? That she can find another job. Is there any scientific research on this topic that the noise influences attendance or TV ratings? No. This is just some Australian/British tabloid BS. Every Grand Slam is setting new attendance records, building new stadiums with roofs and lights. If it is such a problem for fans, why are Seles and Sharapova among the most popular players?

What does idiot on my avy has to do with anything?! :help:

:rolleyes: Hindrance is related to the opponent not the attendance and TV ratings :spit: And yes, down on the court you can hear loud and clear your opponent

terjw
Feb 20th, 2012, 11:00 PM
Meh, I don't buy this. The issue is not what they say to Peter Bodo, it's what they do. They are aware of the issue, and they could tone down their grunting if they wanted to. I don't think they are grunting louder than they need to just to piss Peter Bodo off. But at the end of the day I think the blame rests far more with the WTA than with the grunters.

Exactly. The WTA are too gutless to enforce the hindrance rule and do anything. When Azarenka and Sharapova start talking about other players not complaining or if they do - say they are weak - it's a total red herring. It shouldn't be up to players to complain. It's the job of the umpires and the WTA to enforce the rules and take measures to ensure the game is not a laughing stock as well.

As for as Azarenka and Sharapova saying they can't change. Well they would say that wouldn't they. :lol: What they mean is that there is no incentive or reason for them to stop because the spineless WTA takes no action. And they are right to feel that it's perfectly OK when the WTA and umpires don't do anything about it. Of course they would naturally think that if the authorities take no action and the umpires say nothing - it's OK to do it. Applying a warning, then a point loss, then a game loss ... they'd soon get the message. But the idea they couldn't stop. That they would be forfeiing matches right left and centre :lol::lol: No Vika - that's one for the faires. At first - it would probably affect their results - but they'd learn.

Incidentally - I agree with Chrissie Fan about wild claims that they do it on purpose. That is a wild claim which cannot be substantiated, would be serious if true and I certainly don't believe it. And in any case it is completelty irrelevant to the comments by Azarenka and the inaction by the authorities.

madmax
Feb 20th, 2012, 11:05 PM
She's right. People don't lose matches because their opponent grunts. They lose matches because they lack the talent, game, and or fitness to compete with what's coming at them from across the net. I've seen Vika play live. It's no where near as loud as on TV. Just like you can't even hear Ana say Ajde! most of the time. Everything is magnified by the super sensitive microphones on court.

Do you really think you can hear the ball bouncing when a player is getting ready to serve? In a stadium full of chattering people, do you really think you can hear the players breathe?

Excuses, excuses. Both Sharapova and Azarenka have been on the tour for ages. People just need to STFU about this already:lol:

:worship::bounce:
finally some voice of reason in this boring ass thread

Patrick345
Feb 20th, 2012, 11:09 PM
What does idiot on my avy has to do with anything?! :help:

:rolleyes: Hindrance is related to the opponent not the attendance and TV ratings :spit: And yes, down on the court you can hear loud and clear your opponent

Maybe in a simple world. Evertyhing is related to the dollars. Sharapova and Azarenka are far more important than any player that complains. Same on the mens side with Nadal and Djokovic. Iīm out of this, already talked too much about this media hoax.

*JR*
Feb 20th, 2012, 11:28 PM
JR - The difference is that American football and basketball don't have a hindrance rule, tennis does.

Absolutely not true. In basketball, a moving pick is a personal foul, and counts towards the 6 that get an NBA player fouled out. A defender hitting an opponent's wrist or arm is a personal foul, etc. And a flagrant foul = 2 free throws plus that team keeping the ball. I haven't even touched (offensive) charging, goaltending, or technical fouls, but you get the idea.

In American football, you have holding and pass interference (on either the offense or the defense) along with various violations @ the line of scrimmage, illegally obstructing a receiver more than 5 yards downfield, blocks in the back or around the knees, and too many more to list; that (like the basketball fouls above) are most definitely hindrance.

Baseball and hockey also do FWIW, but excess noise isn't one of them in any of these sports. (Golf has a strict adherence to a "quiet" rule, but par is generally hitting the ball 72 times in a round, which each player does in a couple of games or so in tennis). Other than barring bullhorns and strobe lights, etc. being used to put a player @ a disadvantage, it becomes rather hard to enforce. Again, umps don't even enforce the service time interval. :shrug:

mac47
Feb 21st, 2012, 12:01 AM
Tennis, unlike basketball and American football, includes distracting noise under the category of hindrance.

mac47
Feb 21st, 2012, 12:04 AM
For the record, I don't like grunting, shrieking, etc. That said, let me point out a possible flaw in JJ's logic on this. One can just as easily argue the exact opposite: that the ability not to fall for the illusion of greater ball speed itself is a valuable talent.

What? Who on earth would value this talent? When I watch tennis, I want to see who is better at tracking down and hitting a tennis ball, not who can use noise to fake out her opponent.

stromatolite
Feb 21st, 2012, 05:08 AM
I explained why you're applying double standards: because your argument for outlawing grunting is that casual viewers are being driven away from the game by it, yet you disregard the fact that casual viewers lose respect for the sport and think it's a joke when they see a player who isn't the best player in the world being ranked "#1". If you can't see that that's an "application of a different set of standards for similar situations" in that you only think casual viewers' views should settle argument when their views happen to be in line with your opinions, then I can't help you.

No, I guess you can't ;)

Dominic
Feb 21st, 2012, 05:13 AM
:worship::bounce:
finally some voice of reason in this boring ass thread

:lol: most reasonable ppl already knew that

kow604
Feb 21st, 2012, 05:15 AM
this is interesting to me, i'll never stop watching tennis whether it be atp or wta, but i will say that during certain players matches male or female i do have to turn the volume down, not off because, i have to hear as well as see what is happening on court. but i do think it is hinderance, and when someone said that if you go on court and you already know that they are going to grunt.....loudly...the whole entire time then you should be prepared already for it.. i disagree, i can handle a constant subtle noise when i am trying to sleep, but have a bird loudly and incessantly chirping outside my window, and i don;t care how much i try to block it out... it aint happening and i cannot sleep. i do think the grunters do have an advantage when they are grunting like they are, because even as a player who is focusing on the match, they are now having to devote some energy that they could be using in a more productive fashion to blocking out the noise, and that does take energy to do...i've seen people bring up seles' name here, and what i think alot of you do not realize is that players did complain, seles did get warnings, and was even told to stop, and when she did get quieter, or even silent, she did play worse. and i think that is because she was having to devote more of her energy to not grunt, and to just play. while no pro, i would hate to play someone who grunted because it would take away from my intensity, because when i play i pay attention to everything happening on the court and i am acutely listening to what is happening on the other side of the net...ie if my oppenent is getting frustrated, breathing heavy, how loud they are when they are trying to go for a ball....i personally pay attention to all this because i am trying to get any advantage i can, and pick up anything going on the other side....so if someone was continually making loud noises, this would throw me off my game. i'm not suggesting that anyone does it knowingly or even trying to get an edge, just giving my opinion on the matter...and believe me nobody who is any good, has to worry about my game...but i have at least won alot more than i have lost. i just love tennis, i think it is the best sport in the world!!!!

stromatolite
Feb 21st, 2012, 05:26 AM
You know what the ATP/WTA tell JJ, when she protests/mocks Azarenka/Sharapova during a match? That she can find another job. Is there any scientific research on this topic that the noise influences attendance or TV ratings? No. This is just some Australian/British tabloid BS. Every Grand Slam is setting new attendance records, building new stadiums with roofs and lights. If it is such a problem for fans, why are Seles and Sharapova among the most popular players?

Come on now, I can't really believe you can't see the fallacy in this line of reasoning.

jameshazza
Feb 21st, 2012, 05:40 AM
Saying that sharapova is not one of (really the) most popular active player is just pathetic hating. Her endorsements and facebook fans say it all...

stromatolite
Feb 21st, 2012, 06:04 AM
^That's not the fallacy. Leaving aside the fact that annoyance of fans is not the only (or even the main) reason for wanting grunting reduced, the popularity of a number of grunters proves nothing except that not all fans hate grunting, which is something that as far as I am aware nobody is claiming. Given the fact that not everybody hates grunting, it's a pretty short mental leap to the conclusion that those people will be more likely to be fans of grunters. The primary appeal of those players lies not in their grunting, but other features (tennis skill, appearance among others). In fact, the main thing you can conclude from this is that Maria's facebook endorsements would be astronomical if she didn't grunt, because her grunting is the single most offputting feature for most people who don't like her.

Malva
Feb 21st, 2012, 07:29 AM
this is interesting to me, i'll never stop watching tennis whether it be atp or wta, but i will say that during certain players matches male or female i do have to turn the volume down, not off because, i have to hear as well as see what is happening on court. but i do think it is hinderance, and when someone said that if you go on court and you already know that they are going to grunt.....loudly...the whole entire time then you should be prepared already for it.. i disagree, i can handle a constant subtle noise when i am trying to sleep, but have a bird loudly and incessantly chirping outside my window, and i don;t care how much i try to block it out... it aint happening and i cannot sleep. i do think the grunters do have an advantage when they are grunting like they are, because even as a player who is focusing on the match, they are now having to devote some energy that they could be using in a more productive fashion to blocking out the noise, and that does take energy to do...i've seen people bring up seles' name here, and what i think alot of you do not realize is that players did complain, seles did get warnings, and was even told to stop, and when she did get quieter, or even silent, she did play worse. and i think that is because she was having to devote more of her energy to not grunt, and to just play. while no pro, i would hate to play someone who grunted because it would take away from my intensity, because when i play i pay attention to everything happening on the court and i am acutely listening to what is happening on the other side of the net...ie if my oppenent is getting frustrated, breathing heavy, how loud they are when they are trying to go for a ball....i personally pay attention to all this because i am trying to get any advantage i can, and pick up anything going on the other side....so if someone was continually making loud noises, this would throw me off my game. i'm not suggesting that anyone does it knowingly or even trying to get an edge, just giving my opinion on the matter...and believe me nobody who is any good, has to worry about my game...but i have at least won alot more than i have lost. i just love tennis, i think it is the best sport in the world!!!!

An excellent post.

MaBaker
Feb 21st, 2012, 09:22 AM
She's right. People don't lose matches because their opponent grunts. They lose matches because they lack the talent, game, and or fitness to compete with what's coming at them from across the net. I've seen Vika play live. It's no where near as loud as on TV. Just like you can't even hear Ana say Ajde! most of the time. Everything is magnified by the super sensitive microphones on court.

Do you really think you can hear the ball bouncing when a player is getting ready to serve? In a stadium full of chattering people, do you really think you can hear the players breathe?

Excuses, excuses. Both Sharapova and Azarenka have been on the tour for ages. People just need to STFU about this already:lol:
Same goes for those players who scream on the court. That's more annoying than people complaining about it.

*JR*
Feb 21st, 2012, 01:24 PM
What? Who on earth would value this talent? When I watch tennis, I want to see who is better at tracking down and hitting a tennis ball, not who can use noise to fake out her opponent.

As stated, I don't like the grunting and shrieking. But that's not the issue, any more than ppl here citing Masha's maybe $25M annual income (and filling stands) to defend the loud players. Let's go back to JJ's quote:

"The receiver feels like the ball is coming way faster than it is because of the grunt that comes with the ball. So you back up a little bit and you think this huge thing is coming at you, almost a bomb, and the ball doesn't really go that fast."

Excuse me? :confused: JJ has been on the tour far long enough to realize that a grunt (or shreik) doesn't make the ball go any faster, or make it some sort of huge thing, almost a bomb. Take her last words above: "and the ball doesn't really go that fast."

OK Jeca, you long ago realized that it doesn't, so why the hell "back up a little bit"? :scratch: She'd be better off resting her case on decorum, etc. than saying that she couldn't just "play the ball, not the shriek". Obviously there are perceptual hindrances (like strobe lights, mirrors, or loud sounds a player's opponent has used in the stands) that would lead to replayed points, ejections, etc.

But a predictable noise (like Masha's shriek or Nina's "Whoo-peee" on almost every single shot) should be "factored in" by the receiver. In fact it would make more sense to argue hindrance if a player occasionally made a random noise during a point than being thoroughly predictable about it, as the shriekers and grunters generally are.

bobito
Feb 21st, 2012, 02:35 PM
*JR* - A couple of points. Firstly the opponent's response in thinking that the shot is harder if accompanied by a loud scream is almost certainly more an instinctive one than a conscious one. Experience can overcome that to some degree but I doubt it can do so entirely.

Secondly, a point made by Martina Navratilova and others is that players judge the power, spin and timing of a shot to a large degree from the sound of racquet on ball. If all you can hear is "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggghh!" then you will be slower to pick up when a ball has been hit softer than normal or mistimed. It is perhaps this effect that Jankovic is actually experiencing.

There have been enough players who have explained that is does present a hindrance. Unless Azarenka is prepared to say that Navratilova and Evert were mentally weak, she should muzzle it, both in her press conferences and on court.

dsanders06
Feb 21st, 2012, 03:39 PM
Secondly, a point made by Martina Navratilova and others is that players judge the power, spin and timing of a shot to a large degree from the sound of racquet on ball. If all you can hear is "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggghh!" then you will be slower to pick up when a ball has been hit softer than normal or mistimed. It is perhaps this effect that Jankovic is actually experiencing.

You can only judge the spin from the sound of the racquet, which as said doesn't even apply to Azarenka and Sharapova as they barely mix up the spin atall. Schiavone is the only grunter who does mix up the spin, so she is the only one for whom there's a half-legitimate argument that she benefits from it.