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View Full Version : Why was Mauresmo so comprehensively owned by Serena and Lindsay?


rimon
Nov 5th, 2011, 10:57 AM
She was 2-9 against Serena, and 4-12 against Lindsay, yet her head-to-heads against the other top players are pretty decent:

Against Seles, 2-3.
Against Hingis, 7-7.
Against Clijsters, 7-8.
Against Henin, 6-8.
Against Capriati, 7-4.
Against Venus, 3-5.
Against Sharapova, 3-1.

Lilowannabe
Nov 5th, 2011, 11:46 AM
I guess it was just a bad match up for her. In fairness, Mauresmo faced peak Rena in 4-5 of their matches and just got crushed while they only played twice during mauresmo's peak (05-06) and it was a win each!!! Davenport was just a bad match for Momo, her height ment that she didnt mind the high topspin and could just tee off on mauresmo's slice

scandic78
Nov 5th, 2011, 11:48 AM
That Mauresmo - Capriati H2H is an interesting one. Amelie really started get Jen's number in their later matches.

Linguae^
Nov 5th, 2011, 01:10 PM
Serena would just smash her mentally all over again.

Toxic
Nov 5th, 2011, 02:01 PM
She was 2-9 against Serena, and 4-12 against Lindsay, yet her head-to-heads against the other top players are pretty decent:

Against Seles, 2-3.
Against Hingis, 7-7.
Against Clijsters, 7-8.
Against Henin, 6-8.
Against Capriati, 7-4.
Against Venus, 3-5.
Against Sharapova, 3-1.

2-10 :)

http://www.wtatennis.com/headtohead/serena-williams_2255881_9044/0,,12781~9044~5394,00.html

Svetlana)))
Nov 5th, 2011, 02:18 PM
Both players hit the ball so hard and flat that her loopy forehand nor her backhand slice were effective. Her forehand sat up nicely to be swatted away and her slice was not low enough. Plus, she was a mental midget.

ToopsTame
Nov 5th, 2011, 02:35 PM
These are separate cases. With Serena it was all mental. If it went down to the wire in the 3rd set, you always knew Serena would take it. Other times Serena was in the mood for destruction and Mauresmo failed to even show up like at Roland Garros 2003. Mauresmo's game actually matched up decently against Serena's but she was just too far behind mentally and would inevitably falter.
With Lindsay it's a matter of game style. Pre-back injury Mauresmo had a good record against Davenport because she could absorb Davenport's power and outgrind her with her heavy topspin in rallies. Post-back injury Mauresmo couldn't generate the same heavy shots consistently. She relied more on variety than grinding to win points. Davenport faced lots of good volleyers growing up and had no trouble with slices and so was much better able to deal with Mauresmo's new style.

Sammo
Nov 5th, 2011, 02:45 PM
Because they were better players and because they had the better mentality.

Toxic
Nov 5th, 2011, 02:49 PM
The 10th 'win' was a walkover.

1.1999 PARIS S.Williams 6-2 3-6 7-6(4)
2.2000 HANNOVER S.Williams 6-2 6-7(4) 7-6
3.2002 SYDNEY S.Williams 6-4 7-6(6)
- 2002 BERLIN S.Williams W/O
4.2002 WIMBLEDON S.Williams 6-2 6-1
5.2003 PARIS S.Williams 6-3 6-27
2003 ROME A. Mauresmo 1-6 7-5 6-3
6.2003 FRENCH OPEN S.Williams 6-1 6-2
7.2004 WIMBLEDON S.Williams 6-7(4) 7-5 6-4
8.2004 TOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS S.Williams 4-6 7-6(2) 6-4
9.2005 AUSTRALIAN OPEN S.Williams 6-2 6-2
2006 US OPENH A. Mauresmo 6-4 0-6 6-2
10.2008 WIMBLEDON S.Williams 7-6(5) 6-1

http://www.wtatennis.com/headtohead/serena-williams_2255881_9044/0,,12781~9044~5394,00.html

http://i55.tinypic.com/2hr1y82.jpg

sammy01
Nov 5th, 2011, 03:24 PM
serena is just a better player than momo and it seems right that H2H to me.

as for davenport she had wonderful hands, so when momo mixed up the pace and tried to junk davenport around it just didn't have as much effect as it does more 'stiff and ridgid' players. also davenport doesn't mind high loopy balls, as it took a lot to get them high on her 6ft 2inch frame.

treufreund
Nov 5th, 2011, 03:41 PM
I think Lindsay and Serena both had great serves and probably pummeled Amelie's forehand. Being a fan of Justine, I loved their matches because their games were a bit similar but Justine handles pace and defends better than Amelie and is more comfortable taking the ball early on her forehand wing than Amelie ever was. Amelie's forehand was quite loopy a la Wozniacki. Amelie had a tougher than estimated serve, great athleticism, a fabulous backhand, good variety, great volleys and great athleticism. The forehand was really her only relatively vulnerable shot when rushed. Lindsay and Serena would have zeroed in on that and on her somewhat suspect return of serve. Also, keep in mind, that Lindsay was not so bothered by the high topspin shots due to her height. Serena not so much either because of her massive upper body strength.

MakarovaFan
Nov 5th, 2011, 03:51 PM
1.1999 PARIS S.Williams 6-2 3-6 7-6(4)
2.2000 HANNOVER S.Williams 6-2 6-7(4) 7-6
3.2002 SYDNEY S.Williams 6-4 7-6(6)
- 2002 BERLIN S.Williams W/O
4.2002 WIMBLEDON S.Williams 6-2 6-1
5.2003 PARIS S.Williams 6-3 6-27
2003 ROME A. Mauresmo 1-6 7-5 6-3
6.2003 FRENCH OPEN S.Williams 6-1 6-2
7.2004 WIMBLEDON S.Williams 6-7(4) 7-5 6-4
8.2004 TOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS S.Williams 4-6 7-6(2) 6-4
9.2005 AUSTRALIAN OPEN S.Williams 6-2 6-2
2006 US OPENH A. Mauresmo 6-4 0-6 6-2
10.2008 WIMBLEDON S.Williams 7-6(5) 6-1

http://www.wtatennis.com/headtohead/serena-williams_2255881_9044/0,,12781~9044~5394,00.html (http://www.wtatennis.com/headtohead/serena-williams_2255881_9044/0,,12781%7E9044%7E5394,00.html)

http://i55.tinypic.com/2hr1y82.jpg


As you can see the Serena-Mauresmo H2H is very misleading, as it could have easily been 4-6/5-5 with atleast 4 of those matches where Amelie was withing points from winning. Therefore this H2H, alike the Jankovic-Henin H2H was less about matchups and more about mental strength.

Pump-it-UP
Nov 5th, 2011, 03:59 PM
Serena was always so alert against her.

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KBdoubleu
Nov 5th, 2011, 04:08 PM
She was 2-9 against Serena, and 4-12 against Lindsay, yet her head-to-heads against the other top players are pretty decent:

Against Seles, 2-3.
Against Hingis, 7-7.
Against Clijsters, 7-8.
Against Henin, 6-8.
Against Capriati, 7-4.
Against Venus, 3-5.
Against Sharapova, 3-1.

I think Mauresmo's record against some of the other players listed in somewhat inflated. She is obviously a great player - but a notch below some of those mentioned. Mauresmo won the majority of her matches against Hingis/Clijsters/Venus (for instance) in what was her best year ('06) and also of many of their weaker years on tour.

Hingis lost to Mauresmo three times in '06. At one point she was 7-2 against Mauresmo.
Clijsters lost to Mauresmo five times in '06. At one point she was 8-2 against Mauresmo.
Mauresmo posted three wins against Venus. One by retirement, the others in '04 and the beginning of '05 - a very weak period for Venus. At one point Venus was 4-0 against Mauresmo.

hablo
Nov 5th, 2011, 04:09 PM
As you can see the Serena-Mauresmo H2H is very misleading, as it could have easily been 4-6/5-5 with atleast 4 of those matches where Amelie was withing points from winning. Therefore this H2H, alike the Jankovic-Henin H2H was less about matchups and more about mental strength.

Agreed.

Momo really should have won that 2004 Wimbledon match. :crying2:

bandabou
Nov 5th, 2011, 04:56 PM
Momo vs Serena..all about mental strength, lots of close sets..and then you know that Serena ain't losing those.

momo vs davenport..Momo was using the wrong tactics..

justineheninfan
Nov 5th, 2011, 05:04 PM
The funny thing about the Mauresmo-Davenport matchup was Mauresmo did much better early when she was a much worse player than later years and Davenport was at her all time best. It seems like Lindsay got used to timing Mauersmo's heavily spun shots. Mauresmo also began to use too much spin and lose some of the power she had earlier on, even though she became a better overall player, thus was more easily overpowered by someone like Davenport.

As for Serena, Mauresmo just wasnt mentally strong enough to beat her most of the time, lots of close sets and matches lost, in addition to in general being overpowered in the matchup.

Matt01
Nov 5th, 2011, 06:21 PM
These are separate cases. With Serena it was all mental. If it went down to the wire in the 3rd set, you always knew Serena would take it. Other times Serena was in the mood for destruction and Mauresmo failed to even show up like at Roland Garros 2003. Mauresmo's game actually matched up decently against Serena's but she was just too far behind mentally and would inevitably falter.
With Lindsay it's a matter of game style.


Exactly.

Welcome on board. :wavey:

JCTennisFan
Nov 5th, 2011, 07:55 PM
Mauresmo's game had some holes in it which if exploited could get her to mentally fold. Her forehand was a shot which could easily break down under pressure, and her backhand often didnt have enough pace on it. Both Serena and Davenport at their best could hit through Mauresmo and not allow her to undue them with her variety.

When Mauresmo was at her best, though, she was a very well rounded player. When all the parts were working and her mind wasnt against her she could really put on a nice display. But there were simply too many times when she couldnt either keep her game together or keep her mind together. Mentally strong players like Serena and Davenport could exploit this and run away with the match.

Ultimately I believe its a combination of their superior mental fortitude and their superior groundstroke pace which allowed them to hurt Mauresmo. They could control the rallys, put pressure on her, and not allow Mauresmo to get her teeth into the match.