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calabar
Nov 4th, 2011, 12:48 AM
For those who are "old" enough to remember, Venus and Serena represented the USA in women's doubles for the 2000 olympics in Australia. There was a lot of controversy regarding Serena's inclusion on the doubles team. Lisa Raymond who I believed was ranked #1 at the time felt she should be on the team (with Venus) rather than Serena. In the end, BJK chose Serena rather than Lisa. In the subsequent olympics, the ITF changed the rules and allow countries to field TWO doubles instead of one.
Now here is where things get really interesting. Two of the best doubles players right now are Americans, Huber and Raymond and clearly they would (and SHOULD) be chosen as one of the two doubles team. But what about the second team? The next highest ranked doubles American players are Vania King, Mattek-Sands and Megan Shaughnessy. Fortunately the team will not be selected today, but unless the Sisters run the doubles tables at The Australian Open AND the French Open, The probably will not earn enough points to move up the rankings to justify their place on the team. And we will have yet another repeat of the controversy back in 2000.
But seriously folks, how could Mary-Jo (or whomever) deny the TWO GREATEST GRASSCOURT PLAYERS of their generation (assuming they are healthy) from playing in the olympics....on grass?
Stay tuned.

justineheninfan
Nov 4th, 2011, 12:56 AM
I think they will. They have brought home medals for the U.S each time they played, so why wouldnt they. Serena for sure will be picked for singles and doubles. Venus for doubles atleast, but if she wants to I cant see her not being picked for singles as well. I dont know about all the rules, I know Venus might have an issue with her ranking, and there is some possible controversy they did not meet the Fed Cup cut off playing date. Despite all that I cant see them picking any other Americans over them. The young Americans still are a huge dissapointment, although a couple of them (not Oudin) are starting to make some minor strides atleast.

What a far cry from 2000 when Venus, Serena, Seles, Davenport, and doubles specialists like Raymond and Morariu were all scrambling for the spots on the team.

Jane Lane
Nov 4th, 2011, 12:59 AM
Cronin said on Twitter that Megan Shaughnessy retired.

But in regards to the issue, don't be surprised if they go with Huber/Raymond and Venus/Vania and Serena plays singles and mixed. I don't see Venus getting her singles ranking high enough to play singles on DE by the cutoff since she simply won't play enough.

MaxQue
Nov 4th, 2011, 01:01 AM
Well, they use rankings for singles. USTA doesn't decide. If Venus is ranking too low, she won't be able to participate.

jrollaneres25
Nov 4th, 2011, 01:21 AM
Cronin said on Twitter that Megan Shaughnessy retired.

But in regards to the issue, don't be surprised if they go with Huber/Raymond and Venus/Vania and Serena plays singles and mixed. I don't see Venus getting her singles ranking high enough to play singles on DE by the cutoff since she simply won't play enough.


Venus/Vania??? :spit:

Venus and Serena Will be playing together to defend THEIR Olympic doubles crown or they aren't playing. They don't play with anyone else:ras:

Jane Lane
Nov 4th, 2011, 01:24 AM
Venus/Vania??? :spit:

Venus and Serena Will be playing together to defend THEIR Olympic doubles crown or they aren't playing. They don't play with anyone else:ras:

Like the time Venus played with Wozniacki in a few tournaments when Wozniacki was a nubile blonde baby? :oh:

:lol: Vania's not a scrub. She has two Slams and is ranked higher than both of them in doubles so step to that. It'd be a massive controversy if she's excluded; Mary Jo isn't stupid. And if I'm Serena, I'm not playing all 3 disciplines at almost 31 at that point, considering she said she wants to play mixed with Roddick, if that even comes to fruition which I doubt.

Serenus Christ
Nov 4th, 2011, 02:51 AM
..people thinking that Venus won't get her ranking high enough.
she has NOTHING to defend.

Pump-it-UP
Nov 4th, 2011, 02:55 AM
..people thinking that Venus won't get her ranking high enough.
she has NOTHING to defend.
Right?! :lol: She'll be top 50 atleast by Dubai/Doha even if she flops. But that won't happen. :angel:

shoryuken
Nov 4th, 2011, 03:01 AM
of course they will. The US wants a Gold Medal right? :lol:

ElusiveChanteuse
Nov 4th, 2011, 03:05 AM
for sure. Even at 40% at best, Vee is still miles better than the other US singles player other than her own sister.:shrug:

ico4498
Nov 4th, 2011, 03:06 AM
it'll be interesting watching how this unfolds. if both Williams are healthy & playing well by next summer i just can't imagine them not playing.

always tough seeing someone who paid their dues denied their Olympic dream, but the team with the best chance to medal should get the nod. what a ruckus this caused back then ...

nice to see a post from you calabar, regards.

jerry0503214
Nov 4th, 2011, 03:18 AM
Cronin said on Twitter that Megan Shaughnessy retired.

But in regards to the issue, don't be surprised if they go with Huber/Raymond and Venus/Vania and Serena plays singles and mixed. I don't see Venus getting her singles ranking high enough to play singles on DE by the cutoff since she simply won't play enough.








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ExtremespeedX
Nov 4th, 2011, 03:23 AM
It would be a disgrace if Venus wasn't allowed to participate in the Olympics because of her low rank. It's a grass court and someone with sublime attacking game and net play should never be denied a spot. Fans will not tolerate this.

VeeJJ
Nov 4th, 2011, 03:45 AM
Vania will definitely start some shit if she doesn't play! And I don't blame her, she deserves to play. But expect some words if it does not happen.

ptkten
Nov 4th, 2011, 04:13 AM
Aren't there wildcards? I'm pretty sure Molik got a wc in 08 because she was a bronze medalist at the last Olympics. With Venus being a past champion and the possibility that there will only be three Americans in the top 56 anyway, I don't see how she doesn't get in even if her ranking isn't high enough.

spencercarlos
Nov 4th, 2011, 05:08 AM
Like the time Venus played with Wozniacki in a few tournaments when Wozniacki was a nubile blonde baby? :oh:

:lol: Vania's not a scrub. She has two Slams and is ranked higher than both of them in doubles so step to that. It'd be a massive controversy if she's excluded; Mary Jo isn't stupid. And if I'm Serena, I'm not playing all 3 disciplines at almost 31 at that point, considering she said she wants to play mixed with Roddick, if that even comes to fruition which I doubt.
They could very well left out. Lisa Raymond was dropped out to the Venus and Serena team in 2000 despite Lisa was number one ranked in doubles and had won a slam that year.

A lot of people forget that this will be played on grass. It will be stupid enough to left Venus out of this tournament.. IMO. Singles or doubles.

jrollaneres25
Nov 4th, 2011, 05:31 AM
Like the time Venus played with Wozniacki in a few tournaments when Wozniacki was a nubile blonde baby? :oh:

:lol: Vania's not a scrub. She has two Slams and is ranked higher than both of them in doubles so step to that. It'd be a massive controversy if she's excluded; Mary Jo isn't stupid. And if I'm Serena, I'm not playing all 3 disciplines at almost 31 at that point, considering she said she wants to play mixed with Roddick, if that even comes to fruition which I doubt.

I'm talking about the Olympics dentine, not an insignificant exhibition or small tournament:rolleyes:

Mistress of Evil
Nov 4th, 2011, 06:13 AM
the only thing that can prevented them from competing there is injuries And GOD FORBID such occur!

Inger67
Nov 4th, 2011, 07:03 AM
Is THIS what we're going to be talking about the whole off season? Venus WILL get in by her own ranking before Wimbledon. Is it really too hard for people to grasp?

And I don't care that Vania has two doubles slams, how many do Venus and Serena have again? Exactly.

duhcity
Nov 4th, 2011, 08:04 AM
Frankly, if either of the sisters play all three disciplines, it spells their retirement. And I do not wish for that to happen in 2012.

Serenus Christ
Nov 4th, 2011, 08:50 AM
Frankly, if either of the sisters play all three disciplines, it spells their retirement. And I do not wish for that to happen in 2012.

I fear this is very true. They are going ALL out next year, seeing that Serena and Venus are playing mixed just spells out their intention is to go out in a bang.
I just hope that bang is big.

StephenUK
Nov 4th, 2011, 11:16 AM
The cut off ranking is in early June.

Serena has no points to defend, so she has made it already, unless she is injured.

Venus will need to get into around the top 60 mark in the world by then to be included, which will be the cut-off for entry. If she reaches this point, she will need to be in the top 4 Americans - there are currently only three this high ranked (Serena, Mattek, McHale) so it sort of depends how well her compatriots fare in singles next year. Some countries, like Russia, obviously, you will need to be top 20 to be in the team, but I doubt American tennis will have that much of a renaissance next year for Venus to need that sort of ranking to be included.

She won't get a wild card. After the 56 direct entries, then 6 go to the 6 next high ranked representatives from 6 different countries without any direct entries and then there are two extra wild cards that are given to countries to develop the sport, will probably go to an African country, Caribbean etc.

The only further qualification is making themselves available for Fed Cup next year, which presumably they will do.


So, basically, Venus has loads of time to get a suitable ranking, if she can't get top 60 on a full schedule, then she doesn't deserve to be in the event anyway.

Infiniti2001
Nov 4th, 2011, 11:22 AM
We can speculate and make proclamations until the cows come home, but we won't know until the time is near.

the jamierbelyea
Nov 4th, 2011, 11:28 AM
The idea of the singles cut-off being a strict top 56 is a little off base. It'll probably be closer to the 70 mark with the shear amount of Russians and Czech players within the top 56. I wrote a post about the scenario for the US Women's team in the doubles forum, I'll repost it here, so get sort of , what would happen if the rankings didn't change.

I think essentially what we'll see is tennis federations looking at their eligible players in both singles & doubles, and really deciding who they think will be the best assest for the team. I really don't ever recall things being this close before for some of their countries. We will likely see players who are qualified via the olympic system having to be passed.

Let's take for instance the US Squad, assuming the rankings don't change (which they likely will), the players who are for sure qualified:

Eligible for Singles (top 56 eligible, 4 max)
1. Serena Williams
2. Christina McHale
3. Bethanie Mattek-Sands
4. Irina Falconi* (via Pan Am Games win, The winners of the five competitions will have priority entrance into the tennis event, if they are not directly qualified and are near the top 56 in the world. )

*not top 56 eligible, but close to it, and #5 American

Doubles (top 10 in the world get AUTOMATIC entry into doubles draw, IF SELECTED by their Federation)

1. Liezel Huber
2. Lisa Raymond
3. Vania King

So, we have 7 players who are actually "in" via the olympic qualification, but the team can only have 6 members.

So, already we know one "eligible" player automatically loses her spot as of right now.

Vania and Irina are in the 70s in the ranking right now, and probably would be close to "qualifying" as the 4th player. If King keeps herself ahead of Irina, AND makes herself one of the top 56 eligible players, I think Falconi's 'priority' gets thrown away, and you have a team with:

Serena, Christina, Beth, and Vania in singles.
and
Lisa/Liezel and Vania/Beth or Serena.

That's with it as it stands today. However, if Venus Williams raises her ranking to become one of the top 56 eligible players, I think it does change everything.

Even if Venus is the 5th or 6th ranked American in singles, I do believe she will be chosen over Vania (current 4th) or Irina (current 5th). Making the team become

Venus, Serena, Christina, Beth (singles)

Liezel/Lisa & Serena/Venus.

The catalyst has to be Venus has to be one of the top 56 eligible, which if you take into account 4 max per country, should be around the top 70 in the world.

While the singles event qualification will have a clear entrylist qualification, the doubles event will not.

'The ITF will select doubles teams from doubles nominations received from NOCs/National Associations for
direct acceptance, taking into account the recognised international singles and doubles computer rankings of
11 June 2012 and the number and names of players already accepted into the singles events.'

Which would mean, if Venus still has a low ranking in singles, and perhaps no ranking in doubles, even if she is nominated to play doubles with Serena, they could technically be passed by other countries. If Serena is anywhere near the top 10 singles it's not likely, but technically possible. The only GUARANTEED entries in the doubles draw are players within the top 10 of the doubles rankings, but..

Vania's top 10 doubles ranking can be null and void based on :


Any doubles players ranked 10 or better based on the recognised international computer ranking of 11 June
2012 will have direct qualification for the doubles event, providing:
i) their nominated partner has a recognised international singles or doubles ranking on 11 June
2011
ii) they and their partner have been nominated as a doubles team by their respective NOC/national
association, and
iii) the nomination does not bring the total number of competitors from that country to more than six
(6)

--

So, the US has a lot of tough decisions on their hands.

For Vania for her to get a chance at a doubles medal, she needs to actually improve her singles ranking, but really her fate will be in Venus's hands.

If Venus does not become top 56 elibible, I hope that the USTA does send Vania instead of Christina or Irina. She'll have a better shot at a medal in doubles (parterning Beth or Serena), then Christina/Irina would in singles or doubles. Even if Vania is not top 56 eligible for singles (she'd be pretty darn close as it stands today), I still say sending a team that looks like this:

Singles:
Serena
Beth

Doubles:
Liezel/Lisa
Vania/Beth or Serena

gives them the best chance to win medals. It'll be case of perhaps not using all four singles spots, in order to send your best medal contenders.

Vania being on the team (unless she becomes the US #3 + top 56 eligible in singles), really rests in Venus's hands. You might have a case where Vania raises her singles rank to qualify for singles, but still is not given a doubles spot because Venus has raised her ranking high enough.

mckyle.
Nov 4th, 2011, 11:31 AM
Vania will definitely start some shit if she doesn't play! And I don't blame her, she deserves to play. But expect some words if it does not happen.

Vania is 22 years old. She can wait. Considering doubles players play well into their 30s, she'll have plenty more chances. This is probably Venus and Serena's last go at the Olympics. Gotta respect the legends.

the jamierbelyea
Nov 4th, 2011, 11:37 AM
Vania will definitely start some shit if she doesn't play! And I don't blame her, she deserves to play. But expect some words if it does not happen.

The funniest thing about Vania's chances is, her doubles ranking is almost irrelevant at this point with Huber/Raymond sitting at #1 and #2. The Olympic teams will only allowed to have 6 members total. So, if Vania isn't one of the top 4 singles players, she certainly will not be named to the team.

It's the same situation for the US Men's team with the Bryan Brothers certainly assured of the two doubles spots.

The top 4 ranked in singles will be named + the Bryans. They will just make a doubles team out of the 4 singles players. It makes it impossible for the solid doubles specialists.

J4m3ka
Nov 4th, 2011, 11:47 AM
Serena will almost certainly be playing singles at the Olympics, the only thing which stands in her way is getting injured.

I think Venus will be playing singles too if she gets her ranking into top 50, which theoretically should not pose much of a problem since she has no points to defend. It is too hard/random to say with Venus, who knows if she will even be able to play enough to improve her ranking - we all saw what happened at the USO.

Both will be picked for doubles regardless of ranking IMO. I can't see them playing with anyone else instead of each other, it will be together or not at all.

serenafan08
Nov 4th, 2011, 12:32 PM
They will play. The question is what will they play? I just can't see them both playing singles, doubles and mixed. Serena tweeted a while back that she and Andy Roddick were going to play mixed at the Olympics, so maybe she'll play just singles and mixed...but I can't see Venus playing doubles with anyone else. So then maybe Venus will just play singles (if her ranking is high enough). All this remains to be seen!

Soliloque
Nov 4th, 2011, 12:42 PM
Serena better drop Roddick and focus on women's double with Venus. She ain't winning anything with that pusher.

guichard
Nov 4th, 2011, 01:14 PM
Venus/Vania??? :spit:

Venus and Serena Will be playing together to defend THEIR Olympic doubles crown or they aren't playing. They don't play with anyone else:ras:
Almost. Venus played with Rubin at the 2004 Games but yes Serena wasn't at the Games.

Bounty Hunter
Nov 4th, 2011, 03:16 PM
And I don't care that Vania has two doubles slams, how many do Venus and Serena have again? Exactly.

I quit counting after 2008/2009 ... lol... ;)

Doubles

Australian Open
2001 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Lindsay Davenport/Corina Morariu 6-2/4-6/6-4
2003 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Virginaia Ruano Pascual/Paola Suarez 4-6, 6-4, 6-3
2009 Serena Williams /Venus Williams def. Daniela Hantuchova /Ai Sugiyama 6-3 6-3
French Open
1999 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Martina Hingis/Anna Kournikova 6-3, 6-7(2), 8-6
Wimbledon
2000 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Julie Halard-Decugis/Ai Sugiyama 6-3, 6-2
2002 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Virginaia Ruano Pascual/Paola Suarez 6-2, 7-5
2008 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Lisa Raymond/Samantha Stosur 6-2, 6-2
USO
1999 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Chanda Rubin/Sandrine Testud 4-6, 6-1, 6-4

Mixed Doubles

1998 French Open - Venus Williams/Justin Gimblestob def Serena Williams/Luis Lobos 6-4, 6-4
1998 USO - Serena Williams/Max Mirnyi def Lisa Raymond/Patrick Galbraith 6-2, 6-2
1998 Wimbledon - Serena Williams/Max Mirnyi def M. Lucic/Mahesh Bhupathi 6-4, 6-4
1998 Australian Open - Venus Williams/Justin Gimblestob def Hlena Sukova/Cyril Suk 6-2, 6-1

dsanders06
Nov 4th, 2011, 03:40 PM
Is THIS what we're going to be talking about the whole off season? Venus WILL get in by her own ranking before Wimbledon. Is it really too hard for people to grasp?

Why on earth would you assume that? Just to keep her ranking where it is, she'll need to make the 3rd round at the Australian Open (25% of her current points come from the AO)... and bear in mind she wasn't healthy enough to even last two matches at the US Open. And there's NO CHANCE of her getting an Olympics wildcard.

ChrisCologne
Nov 4th, 2011, 08:51 PM
My prediction is that the Williams are too unpredictable to predict them at the moment

Not in any negative but health-wise way

My prediction would be that Serena is guaranteed in and Venus will be too once she gets her ranking up. Without a ranking, no ITF wildcard in sight for mentioned reasons (just for developing countries etc.)

Given the fact that Raymond and Huber seem set -they would be in Germany with that criteria of winning that Grand Slam f.e. and legitimate top10 players in doubles till then- there´s only the possibility that the girls get in trouble with their health or fitness and would ruin their singles chances by playing doubles too and Serena seems keen on taking that mixed crown

My tip at present is that the Williams either step back for King/Matthek or Venus teams either of them and lets Serena concentrate on that mixed

I see Serena and Huber mixing with one Bryan or both or with one of those 3-4 male singles players

Uranium
Nov 4th, 2011, 09:02 PM
Firstly, Serena should not be playing Mixed with Roddick, he is completely undeserving. Serena/Bob for the Gold.

If Serena would skip out on an event, it would be the Mixed. No way as the Defending Gold Medalist in Doubles, would she drop that especially since it is with Venus. They say how much they love winning it together.

I see her trying at one of the Slams next year to play all 3 events to test it out.

However, doubles games wise, Venus/Vania could be a good team. Vania is forehand return side, Venus backhand side, so it already works out. Vania is very steady in the back and loves to poach at net which she can definitely do more with Vee's big serve setting her up. Vania likes to go for the lobs, which will allow both Vee and Vania to be at net, where both are very good. I could see them doing well. But then again, there are always those first time pairings disasters.

MakarovaFan
Nov 4th, 2011, 09:21 PM
I don't get it: A Top 10 Doubles Ranking books a spot on the team yet Vania's Top 10 Rank can be Void for DOUBLES if Venus's SINGLES Rank surpasses 56th??? Unless it basically work's like a country can take 4 singles players and 1 doubles team PLUS can make an additional doubles team out of the 4 singles players?

The Dawntreader
Nov 4th, 2011, 09:22 PM
I could see them doing well. But then again, there are always those first time pairings disasters.

Yes, like the completely disastrous Rubin/Venus partnership at Athens, where Venus could barely look at her:lol:

Meelis
Nov 4th, 2011, 09:34 PM
Unless it basically work's like a country can take 4 singles players and 1 doubles team PLUS can make an additional doubles team out of the 4 singles players?

This is how it works. Only six women are allowed from one country.

New_balls_please
Nov 4th, 2011, 09:38 PM
The sisters will play together. The other team will be interesting... Lisa and Leizel deserve it more than Vania IMO.

Ferg
Nov 4th, 2011, 09:47 PM
Vania got left out of the Fed Cup final last year after winning 2 slams so I wouldnt be surprised to see it happen again. Mary Joe seems to be a total idiot after all.

tkutsaar
Nov 4th, 2011, 09:51 PM
I supect both of them will have officially retired by the time the Olympics roll around so that the question posed by this thread will be moot.

the jamierbelyea
Nov 4th, 2011, 11:22 PM
I don't get it: A Top 10 Doubles Ranking books a spot on the team yet Vania's Top 10 Rank can be Void for DOUBLES if Venus's SINGLES Rank surpasses 56th??? Unless it basically work's like a country can take 4 singles players and 1 doubles team PLUS can make an additional doubles team out of the 4 singles players?

The top 10 ranking would get her an automatic birth if selected, but there is a 6 player cap per team.

What will happen in the doubles is all of the delegations will send their nominations for the team, and then the Olympic Committee will weigh both their singles & doubles rankings to decide which teams are in. It leaves a lot of room. If Venus makes the team in singles, it's hard to imagine Venus & Serena not being selected to be in the draw, despite not being guaranteed as Vania would be.

The most likely scenario it seems is Vania could make the team, but be stuck playing singles only.

dragonflies
Nov 5th, 2011, 01:41 AM
All the players of Venus' calibre have made so many " come backs" over the years. So far, those multiple slam champs Serena, Venus, Kim, Justine, Hingis, Lindsay... just needed a few tournaments to get back in the top 20 over the years.


At Venus ' standing point now, it only needed 400 pts for her to get into the top 50. She will need 2000pts to make the top 20 and 4000pts to make the top 10 though. The gaps at the top are a lot bigger. It's a lot easier to make the top 50 which will be enough to qualify for the Olympics than come back to the top 10 where she wants to be in.


So the trolls who keep arguing about the chance that Venus won't be qualify can lay off their silly hope. In any circumtance even when Venus come back and playing bad, she is still very likely to make the cut.

The very unlikely case where she is back , being healthy and still can't even get enough points to be in the top 50 by the summer, then you dont need to worry about Venus, because even her fans wouln't want her to be at the Olympics in that form. She isnt going to win anything playing like that.

RenaSlam.
Nov 5th, 2011, 02:14 AM
Vania over Huber. Huber is South African anyway :oops:

Inger67
Nov 7th, 2011, 05:56 AM
Why on earth would you assume that? Just to keep her ranking where it is, she'll need to make the 3rd round at the Australian Open (25% of her current points come from the AO)... and bear in mind she wasn't healthy enough to even last two matches at the US Open. And there's NO CHANCE of her getting an Olympics wildcard.

Very easily actually: like a poster said she only needs 400 additional points to get back to the top 50. She's playing an AO warmup, and AO. Very doable right there. She has nothing else to defend until the week before Wimbledon? I don't see how you think it's impossible.

StephenUK
Nov 7th, 2011, 10:24 AM
Does anyone think that Falconi, McHale and Stephens could all do a rankings surge next year and keep Venus out? Mattek looks likely to drop out of contention as she has been out since the US Open and is defending all her points in the first half of the year.

guichard
Nov 8th, 2011, 02:31 AM
Does anyone think that Falconi, McHale and Stephens could all do a rankings surge next year and keep Venus out? Mattek looks likely to drop out of contention as she has been out since the US Open and is defending all her points in the first half of the year.
Mchale is already #42. I don't think Stephens and Falconi will have a ranking surge.

jrollaneres25
Nov 8th, 2011, 06:47 AM
Serena better drop Roddick and focus on women's double with Venus. She ain't winning anything with that pusher.

This:lol: