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View Full Version : Whose game is the perfect fit of a counter puncher in recent times?


Nicolás89
Nov 1st, 2011, 02:59 AM
Off season. :oh:

A counter puncher is a player who plays better as rallies go longer, they can re-direct, retrieve and defend extremelly well, they are not power hitters but they are effective when attacking, they are not generally known for being big servers, they are natural baseliners so they won't finish points off volleying very often.

ExtremespeedX
Nov 1st, 2011, 03:06 AM
Jankovic is THE perfect counterpuncher of the recent times. Sublime footwork, court smarts, decent at the net, excellent RoS, absorbs power and yet can play aggressive at the same time. Talent-wise, she's Murray of the WTA tour - most talented ever not win a slam. If only she was more tough mentally, she could easily have dominated 2008-2010 period, especially on clay.

danieln1
Nov 1st, 2011, 03:12 AM
Jankovic in 08

Now I dont know, maybe Zvonareva or Penetta

VeeJJ
Nov 1st, 2011, 03:12 AM
You basically describe Jankovic. And she's even better because that backhand was a legit weapon.

Nicolás89
Nov 1st, 2011, 03:19 AM
Jankovic is THE perfect counterpuncher of the recent times. Sublime footwork, court smarts, decent at the net, excellent RoS, absorbs power and yet can play aggressive at the same time. Talent-wise, she's Murray of the WTA tour - most talented ever not win a slam. If only she was more tough mentally, she could easily have dominated 2008-2010 period, especially on clay.

Yea I forgot to mention that a great counter puncher absorbs power to use it against their opponents really really well.

Jankovic is actually the player who most resembles a counter player these days but I have to vote for Myskina because she would never change her game play, she would never over power her opponents she would never out smart her opponents, she wasn't too passive or defensive, in all of her matches she would try to do exactly what a counter puncher would do use her opponent's power to re-direct, turning defense into offense and hitting a winner or forcing an error and of course she would try to get to every ball was thrown at her.

dsanders06
Nov 1st, 2011, 03:51 AM
Capriati and Clijsters are the archetypal proper counter-punchers, who generally start the points off on the defensive, never really go for REALLY high-risk shots when they're out of position, but once they're in control have the weapons to attack and finish off points. Jankovic and Wozniacki are more pure defensive grinders - defensive most of the point, and only go for winners when the opportunity has 100% presented itself.

Stonerpova
Nov 1st, 2011, 03:57 AM
Capriati gets grouped with the power players, but to me she was the definitive counter-puncher. She relied on depth and placement in her rally shots, but she would step in and flatten out the forehand when she got the chance. Plus she was an excellent mover, she had one of the rest ROS I've ever seen, and her groundstrokes (particularly the forehand) got deadlier as she was moved out wide. Myskina is another excellent example, and nowadays players like Zvonareva (when not in push mode) and Jankovic (when not brain damaged) fit the bill.

effedcamel
Nov 1st, 2011, 03:59 AM
Capriati and Clijsters are the archetypal proper counter-punchers, who generally start the points off on the defensive, never really go for REALLY high-risk shots when they're out of position, but once they're in control have the weapons to attack and finish off points. Jankovic and Wozniacki are more pure defensive grinders - defensive most of the point, and only go for winners when the opportunity has 100% presented itself.

Uh no...Wozniacki is a purely defensive grinder. Getting the ball back in play with great anticipation and good depth (most of the time) but she does not take opportunities to rip winners when given the chance.

cowsonice
Nov 1st, 2011, 04:06 AM
Capriati and Clijsters are the archetypal proper counter-punchers, who generally start the points off on the defensive, never really go for REALLY high-risk shots when they're out of position, but once they're in control have the weapons to attack and finish off points. Jankovic and Wozniacki are more pure defensive grinders - defensive most of the point, and only go for winners when the opportunity has 100% presented itself.

:bigclap:

Eh, nowadays, Clijsters would be considered an "aggressive grinder"

Maybe it's just me being biased, but I think Zvonareva is the perfect fit as a counterpuncher. She has no major technical weaknesses, absorbs/redirects pace well, and can play at all parts of the court.

stevos
Nov 1st, 2011, 04:19 AM
Uh no...Wozniacki is a purely defensive grinder. Getting the ball back in play with great anticipation and good depth (most of the time) but she does not take opportunities to rip winners when given the chance.

But that poster wasn't talking about when she had "the chance", he said when it 100% presented itself. So if Caroline gets a ball short and high, she obviously will put it away, but any backcourt ball will be grinded, yes.
100% means no "chance" of missing (except a ridiculous flub of a smash or such).

Steven.
Nov 1st, 2011, 04:37 AM
Jankovic - counter puncher by definition and every single one of her strengths and weaknesses compliment that of a counter puncher lol.

Clijsters, Zvonareva - Primarily counter punchers but can be very aggressive off both wings when needed, though Clijsters is more offensive. They're a mix of both for sure but by defintion, I guess they are counter punchers.

Dementieva, Chakvetadze, Chakvetadze - baseline grinders. Capriati and Dementieva has the power to take on most world class players, but when someone more powerful than her is her opponent, she'll acknowledge it and play a more defensive style (i.e. going for shots with more margin and doesn't try to power pass them). Capriati was probably the quickest around the court and had impeccable timing. Both are exceptional returners. In a way, Dementieva and Capriati are much more talented and a better version of Azarenka.

Wozniacki, Suigiyama - retrievers. Both have great anticipation. Ai has a better return and is better at redirecting the ball though, but Wozniacki is a lot more consistent during matches and hence her stronger results.

Svetlana)))
Nov 1st, 2011, 04:43 AM
Recently, Jankovic and Chakvetadze.

VeeJJ
Nov 1st, 2011, 05:37 AM
Recently, Jankovic and Chakvetadze.

Whoa!!! throwbacks. Seems like '07 was 100 years ago.

Apoleb
Nov 1st, 2011, 06:33 AM
So if Caroline gets a ball short and high, she obviously will put it away,

Umm, no.



Jankovic is THE perfect counterpuncher of the recent times. Sublime footwork, court smarts, decent at the net, excellent RoS, absorbs power and yet can play aggressive at the same time. Talent-wise, she's Murray of the WTA tour - most talented ever not win a slam. If only she was more tough mentally, she could easily have dominated 2008-2010 period, especially on clay.

I predict you will be a huge embarrassment for the Kvitty fanbase. :sobbing:

---

Anyway, this thread is a mess. It's Clijsters, and it's not anywhere close. She's the greatest retriever in the history of the sport.

Nicolás89
Nov 1st, 2011, 04:51 PM
Umm, no.





I predict you will be a huge embarrassment for the Kvitty fanbase. :sobbing:

---

Anyway, this thread is a mess. It's Clijsters, and it's not anywhere close. She's the greatest retriever in the history of the sport.

Woa It's amazing how much people can miss the point, retriever =/= counter puncher, Amanda Coetzer was a retriever and her game was nothing like Clijsters', Clijsters would either be the agressive player or the defensive, she has amazing counter punching skills but to me Jankovic and Myskina or even Chackvetadze are perfect counter punchers because they absorb power, Clijsters has power of her own.

Break My Rapture
Nov 1st, 2011, 05:21 PM
Nasty Myskina. :hearts:

miffedmax
Nov 1st, 2011, 05:32 PM
The punch in counterpuncher means they have to have some power. A counterpuncher in boxing is fully capable of landing a knockout blow (Marvin Hagler and Evander Holyfield being examples of KO counterpunchers). A counterpuncher in the classic definition is one who pounces on an opponent's mistake to land a big blow, rather than aggressively trying to breakdown his/her defences.

JJ and Myskina would be outfighters, who land a series of weaker blows and rely on their movement to wear an opponent down, make a big hitter swing and miss a lot, and win their matches on points, no KOs.

Players like Clijsters, Dementieva and Capriati would be counterpunchers. JJ, Myskina, Chak and Woz are out fighters. Bepa and Ai are all-around boxers who are fighting up a weight-class or two. Justine would fit in this category as well.

The analogy breaks down a little, I know, because there is no such thing as a retriever in boxing. A Caro/Coetzer type couldn't exist because you have to hit somebody at some point. But the idea that a counterpuncher can't hit is wrong. Counterpunching is hitting after your opponent leaves himself open after one of his punches. It doesn't mean you lack punching power.

Lena's bangs.

Petkorazzi
Nov 1st, 2011, 06:13 PM
Jankovic is not the perfect counterpuncher, her defense is that good just cause she has amazing speed and reaction, but she lacks any kind of shots a counterpuncher must have in my book, such as slices or dropshots.

miffedmax
Nov 1st, 2011, 06:33 PM
Nobody on this forum is a fan of the sweet science, as they have no idea what "counterpunching" is.

Lena's bangs.

Sammo
Nov 1st, 2011, 06:38 PM
Sugi and JJ are my picks

dsanders06
Nov 1st, 2011, 07:37 PM
The punch in counterpuncher means they have to have some power. A counterpuncher in boxing is fully capable of landing a knockout blow (Marvin Hagler and Evander Holyfield being examples of KO counterpunchers). A counterpuncher in the classic definition is one who pounces on an opponent's mistake to land a big blow, rather than aggressively trying to breakdown his/her defences.

JJ and Myskina would be outfighters, who land a series of weaker blows and rely on their movement to wear an opponent down, make a big hitter swing and miss a lot, and win their matches on points, no KOs.

Players like Clijsters, Dementieva and Capriati would be counterpunchers. JJ, Myskina, Chak and Woz are out fighters. Bepa and Ai are all-around boxers who are fighting up a weight-class or two. Justine would fit in this category as well.

The analogy breaks down a little, I know, because there is no such thing as a retriever in boxing. A Caro/Coetzer type couldn't exist because you have to hit somebody at some point. But the idea that a counterpuncher can't hit is wrong. Counterpunching is hitting after your opponent leaves himself open after one of his punches. It doesn't mean you lack punching power.

Lena's bangs.

Nobody on this forum is a fan of the sweet science, as they have no idea what "counterpunching" is.

Lena's bangs.

These :lol: It always amazes me how people on here don't seem to know what counterpunching is, and seem to think it's an umbrella term that applies to all defensive players - as you say, a true "counterpuncher" is one who routinely turns defence into attack (Capriati, Clijsters, I'd say peak Hingis as well even though her method of attacking was very different to those two). Probably the best display of counterpunching in recent times was Nadal in the Australian Open final in 2009 (although Nadal is often more of a pure defensive grinder, particularly on clay, in that match he was turning defense into offense brilliantly as soon as Federer dropped a short or loopy ball).