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View Full Version : Best ACTIVE clay court player....


Joe.
Oct 31st, 2011, 07:11 PM
I would say Sam....but it's quite an interesting topic.

DISCUSS

danieln1
Oct 31st, 2011, 07:12 PM
08 - Ivanovic

11 - Francesca? Could be her I guess

Mynarco
Oct 31st, 2011, 07:13 PM
Kuznetsova. 1 RG + 1F, beating Serena en route

madmax
Oct 31st, 2011, 07:15 PM
Sharapova (minus the hurricanes on court)

shap_half
Oct 31st, 2011, 07:21 PM
Sharapova (minus the hurricanes on court)

You are an insane person.

I was going back and forth between Kuznetsova, Ivanovic and Petrova. Based on skill alone, I think Petrova or Kuznetsova are better than Ivanovic, but Ivanovic at her best was more likely to win big matches than Petrova, because Petrova is such a nut case.

Tatcher
Oct 31st, 2011, 07:40 PM
Sharapova (minus the hurricanes on court)

:help::help:

Stonerpova
Oct 31st, 2011, 07:47 PM
Ivanovic before her brain injury. Nowadays probably Stosur, at least as far as potential on the surface goes.

Inger67
Oct 31st, 2011, 07:59 PM
Why is no one talking about Fran when she too has a slam and a F at RG? :shrug:

ViceUltramontain
Oct 31st, 2011, 08:01 PM
Azarenka, Jankovic and Sharapova but not Kuznetsova ?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsqbmpQzoR1r47s9yo1_500.gif

Tatcher
Oct 31st, 2011, 08:01 PM
If we say about clay court game (not about results) they are Kuznetsova and Schiavone of course.

Nicolás89
Oct 31st, 2011, 08:04 PM
You are an insane person.

I was going back and forth between Kuznetsova, Ivanovic and Petrova. Based on skill alone, I think Petrova or Kuznetsova are better than Ivanovic, but Ivanovic at her best was more likely to win big matches than Petrova, because Petrova is such a nut case.

But Petrova at her best went undefeated for the whole 2006 clay season (not counting Fed Cup) beating Henin on the road, it was unfortunate that she got injured right before RG because she was the clear favorite to win it all IMO. I would still vote for Sveta though, she is perfect for clay.

My ranking would be:

1. Svetlana
2. Stosur
3. Petrova
4. Schiavonne
5. Ivanovic
6. Jankovic
7. Li

Notable mentions for Maria, Victoria, Rena, Clijsters and Aga.

Joe.
Oct 31st, 2011, 08:07 PM
Azarenka, Jankovic and Sharapova but not Kuznetsova ?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsqbmpQzoR1r47s9yo1_500.gif

I couldn't fit everyone- Hence the option'OTHER (PLEASE STATE)'

ViceUltramontain
Oct 31st, 2011, 08:11 PM
I couldn't fit everyone- Hence the option'OTHER (PLEASE STATE)'

Svetlana should have been the first one written. I know that you can't fit everyone but the 5 active players who won the French are obvious choices. But it's not the end of the world anyway.

Fighterpova
Oct 31st, 2011, 08:26 PM
Kuzzy and Serena! I can't believe Stosur is winning the poll!!!

Gaz.
Oct 31st, 2011, 08:29 PM
Jankovic. :hearts:

shap_half
Oct 31st, 2011, 09:17 PM
But Petrova at her best went undefeated for the whole 2006 clay season (not counting Fed Cup) beating Henin on the road, it was unfortunate that she got injured right before RG because she was the clear favorite to win it all IMO. I would still vote for Sveta though, she is perfect for clay.

My ranking would be:

1. Svetlana
2. Stosur
3. Petrova
4. Schiavonne
5. Ivanovic
6. Jankovic
7. Li

Notable mentions for Maria, Victoria, Rena, Clijsters and Aga.

Petrova at her best is just amazing on clay. I rewatched that 2005 Berlin final with Justine, and even though she lost some of the shots she was making were really astounding. And she always moves so beautifully on clay. Sveta may be faster and more of scrambler on the surface but Nadia always moves more beautifully on it.

But I do think that after Justine, Jankovic is the best clay mover, she's a good balance between Sveta and Nadia, of scrambling and beautifully moving on the surface.

If Petrova had bagged a RG even in Justine's absence, I think I would rank her #1 -- and second overall after Justine from this generation. As it stands though

My Top 10
Sveta
Nadia
Ana
Jelena
Fran
Sam
Venus
Serena
Li
Vika

I wanted to put Kim in there because even though she hates it, she has the best record for non-winners on it. Is Dinara still considered active? If so, I'd have her at #5 over Fran. She really has a great overall game on clay.

I think it's interesting that when you make these lists, you can see that we did have good clay courters in this generation. There's still Elena Dementieva, too. Eveyone seems to think that Justine's dominance was the result of a poor clay court rival but I'm not sure that's really the case.

ananke
Nov 1st, 2011, 12:29 AM
Why is Julia Görges not in the poll? :oh:

Scola
Nov 1st, 2011, 12:45 AM
What about Dinara? Until she retires oficially, she has something to say on this topic :confused:

Sammo
Nov 1st, 2011, 12:46 AM
Sam Stosur's game is the best suited for clay

Sammo
Nov 1st, 2011, 12:46 AM
What about Dinara? Until she retires oficially, she has something to say on this topic :confused:

The same for Mary Pierce :spit:

The 2nd Law
Nov 1st, 2011, 12:47 AM
Dinara is definitely up there but I think it's safe to say she's gone :(

Every year I foolishly get my hopes up that Ana will do something in the clay season to prove once again how much it complements her game.

Linguae^
Nov 1st, 2011, 01:11 AM
Sharapova's "fluke" 2011 clay season brought her to the best claycourter alive, ahaha :lol:

Carolinka on the list? :unsure:

Jelka. :hearts: Sveta, Ana, Sam, GOATRENA :rocker2:

justineheninfan
Nov 1st, 2011, 02:06 AM
Petrova was not the clear favorite, in fact definitely not "the" favorite at all (one of the favorites yes) to win the 06 French. Just because she won one close match with Henin wouldnt make her the favorite if they played at the French. The bookies all had Henin by far the lowest odds to win Roland Garros and they are who determines who the favorite is. As for 2nd best of the generation on clay if she had won one or two more reasonably big events, yeah Petrova at her best is great on clay but is she better than Kuznetsova, Serena, Ivanovic, or even Safina or Jankovic at their best on the surface. Disputable at best.

As for the poll there is no good answer. I would say one of Kvitova or Stosur though. Kvitova won the 2nd last big event on clay, and would have won the French if she had won that 3 setter with Na. Stosur in her 2010 French form, and now with 2 major finals and the experience of winning a major title behind her, would probably win the French if she avoids Azarenka (I dont think the WTA Champs neccessarily signals she has turned the corner on Sharapova but she could beat her on clay IMO).

justineheninfan
Nov 1st, 2011, 02:08 AM
Are we discussing current ability or careers here. For overall career it would be Serena or Ivanovic. However in terms of current ability on clay no way it is either one of those.

On another note when I review Kuznetsova's stats on clay I am not sure why she is rated the 2nd best clay courter of the Henin era ahead of people like Serena and Ivanovic at all. She doesnt even have a tier 1 title on clay, which surprised me as I figured she did at some point. She has a grand total of 3 career titles on clay. The only valid basis for putting her over Serena is the extra French Open final. Serena though often loses to the eventual winner (or her very narrow loss to eventual runner up in 2010 which probably kept her from the title). Kuznetsova does too, but really Serena is just as much a contender as Kuznetsova at the French and she has tier 1 titles on clay unlike Kuznetsova. I have seen some people say Serena wouldnt deserve to rank above Kuznetsova on clay even if she won a 2nd French which is an epic joke. Both subjectively and objectively after looking at things closer I think Serena deserves to be ranked over Kuznetsova on clay as it is. She is overall more accomplished and Serena's best on clay would still beat Kuznetsova's best.

Ivanovic matches Kuznetsova with a title and final, but hers were back to back. She has a tier 1 title on clay unlike Kuznetsova, and did it by beating Kuznetsova herself in the final. She only has 2 clay titles, but Kuznetsova only has 1 more than that. I would rate her above Kuznetsova on clay too.

Reviewing the stats of the others also show a joke what even the better players of the clay era are except for Henin. Yet these players arent even real threats on clay anymore, and have been replaced by even weaker ones, to the point we are now discussing who is the best clay courter today amongst Sharapova (worst surface), Kvitova (worst surface), Stosur, Azarenka (worst surface, minimal credentials), and a couple others. Ugh.

sammy01
Nov 1st, 2011, 02:21 AM
fran, sveta and ivanovic then serena is 4th (the top 3 are all very close).

i just based this on results not on their games, as serena plays hardcourt tennis on a claycourt so if you went purely by best suited game for clay she would be not even be in the top 5.

justineheninfan
Nov 1st, 2011, 02:25 AM
If Clijsters had won that 2001 French final it would probably leapfrog her to the 2nd best clay courter of the Henin era. Her stats on clay arent even that impressive either (only two tier 1 titles) but they still would be plenty good enough with a FO title to rank her over anyone else of the last 10 years on clay minus Henin (including even the FO-less Hingis and in that hypothetical FO-less Capriati).

ExtremespeedX
Nov 1st, 2011, 02:32 AM
It's Stosur. She's got the best clay forehand and best clay serve on the tour. I am fully expecting her to win RG 2012. She may be one of new generation clay courters who uses the slow surface to compensate for her poor movement, but when on, she's devastating. I wish more players like her existed in 2000's, Henin may be the best CC'er of her generation, but she never actually got to play someone who can topspin the ball shoulder high on serve and forehand and demolish her backhand.

Steven.
Nov 1st, 2011, 03:16 AM
Sam Stosur, Jelena Jankovic, Svetlana Kuznetsova.

Javi.
Nov 1st, 2011, 03:17 AM
I would say Stosur.
Jankovic when not slumping.

VeeJJ
Nov 1st, 2011, 04:24 AM
It's between Kuznetsova and Jankovic. Assuming we are talking about their PEAK to date.

Reptilia
Nov 1st, 2011, 04:28 AM
Whoever wins RG 2012, I guess. :lol:

justineheninfan
Nov 1st, 2011, 04:29 AM
What about Dinara? Until she retires oficially, she has something to say on this topic :confused:

No she doesnt. In terms of current ability (well there is none in a way since she isnt even playing, lol) she wasnt even a top 50 player on any surface when last seen. In terms of career Serena, Ivanovic, Kuznetsova, Schiavone have all achieved more on the surface even if only based on their FO triumphs. In terms of peak playing ability on clay she is behind all of those except Schiavone (but add on Clijsters and possibly Stosur) as well.

ExtremespeedX
Nov 1st, 2011, 04:40 AM
In terms of pure ability Safina was an excellent clay courter. In terms of mental fortitude, she was awful. Losing slam final to Ivanovic :o

Reptilia
Nov 1st, 2011, 04:41 AM
In terms of pure ability Safina was an excellent clay courter. In terms of mental fortitude, she was awful. Losing slam final to Ivanovic :o

:lol: Losing to Kuzzie is just as bad/if not worse.

justineheninfan
Nov 1st, 2011, 04:41 AM
Ivanovic was in her 3rd slam final in the last 12 months at the time of the 2008 FO final. Why is it surprising she would be able to beat Safina. :lol: Ana was the best player in the World in the first half of 2008 and simply outplayed Safina (who actually didnt play a bad match, by far her best slam final performance).

The only slam final Safina sort of blew that she ever had a real shot in was the 2009 FO final to Kuznetsova.

shap_half
Nov 1st, 2011, 05:04 AM
Are we discussing current ability or careers here. For overall career it would be Serena or Ivanovic. However in terms of current ability on clay no way it is either one of those.

On another note when I review Kuznetsova's stats on clay I am not sure why she is rated the 2nd best clay courter of the Henin era ahead of people like Serena and Ivanovic at all. She doesnt even have a tier 1 title on clay, which surprised me as I figured she did at some point. She has a grand total of 3 career titles on clay. The only valid basis for putting her over Serena is the extra French Open final. Serena though often loses to the eventual winner (or her very narrow loss to eventual runner up in 2010 which probably kept her from the title). Kuznetsova does too, but really Serena is just as much a contender as Kuznetsova at the French and she has tier 1 titles on clay unlike Kuznetsova. I have seen some people say Serena wouldnt deserve to rank above Kuznetsova on clay even if she won a 2nd French which is an epic joke. Both subjectively and objectively after looking at things closer I think Serena deserves to be ranked over Kuznetsova on clay as it is. She is overall more accomplished and Serena's best on clay would still beat Kuznetsova's best.

Ivanovic matches Kuznetsova with a title and final, but hers were back to back. She has a tier 1 title on clay unlike Kuznetsova, and did it by beating Kuznetsova herself in the final. She only has 2 clay titles, but Kuznetsova only has 1 more than that. I would rate her above Kuznetsova on clay too.

Reviewing the stats of the others also show a joke what even the better players of the clay era are except for Henin. Yet these players arent even real threats on clay anymore, and have been replaced by even weaker ones, to the point we are now discussing who is the best clay courter today amongst Sharapova (worst surface), Kvitova (worst surface), Stosur, Azarenka (worst surface, minimal credentials), and a couple others. Ugh.

I'm going by a combination of clay court skills and achievements. But as you've mentioned, there's such a poor showing for most of these women, because A. when Justine played, she barely lost and B. since then, everyone has basically gotten worse. So in terms of achievement it's really not a shock that even the people who have won titles haven't won a lot.

From 2003 to 2007, there have been three women to beat Justine on red clay: Garbin, Petrova and Kuznetsova. Kuznetsova before that had one win over Justine out like 45 tries so beating Justine obviously requires more than Sveta can usually produce, yet she did it on clay. She also is the only player to get MPs against Justine during her title runs at RG. To me, this shows that she was one of the few legitimate threats to Justine even when Justine was at the top of her game. That alone makes me regard her higher than Ana. She has the extra title and was able to notch a win over Justine. I'm not really sure how you're justifying Ana over Sveta. Same for Serena. How is she more accomplished on clay? She has two titles on the surface, IIRC.

Everyone wants to make it seem like Serena is a clay court player, she's not. She plays the same game she does on every surface on clay.

And Nadia basically owned clay in 2006, she didn't lose a match until she got injured. EVERYONE commented on what a tough break that was. Would she have beaten Justine at Roland Garros? Who knows, but everyone would probably have told you that she was second favorite to Justine for that title.

I'm not really sure what you're standards are, but the achievements don't mean much especially when there's such a dominant figure who gets in the way. There are only so many titles to win. There are only a handful of women who have won at least two Tier I clay court tiles, Nadia is one of them.

Brad[le]y.
Nov 1st, 2011, 05:07 AM
In terms of pure ability Safina was an excellent clay courter. In terms of mental fortitude, she was awful. Losing slam final to Ivanovic :o

anyone wanna take a guess as to who this is? :lol:

Singleniacki
Nov 1st, 2011, 05:12 AM
Tied between Kuznetsova, Stosur and Schiavone

Pump-it-UP
Nov 1st, 2011, 05:33 AM
Kuznetsova

Pump-it-UP
Nov 1st, 2011, 05:37 AM
I'm going by a combination of clay court skills and achievements. But as you've mentioned, there's such a poor showing for most of these women, because A. when Justine played, she barely lost and B. since then, everyone has basically gotten worse. So in terms of achievement it's really not a shock that even the people who have won titles haven't won a lot.

From 2003 to 2007, there have been three women to beat Justine on red clay: Garbin, Petrova and Kuznetsova. Kuznetsova before that had one win over Justine out like 45 tries so beating Justine obviously requires more than Sveta can usually produce, yet she did it on clay. She also is the only player to get MPs against Justine during her title runs at RG. To me, this shows that she was one of the few legitimate threats to Justine even when Justine was at the top of her game. That alone makes me regard her higher than Ana. She has the extra title and was able to notch a win over Justine. I'm not really sure how you're justifying Ana over Sveta. Same for Serena. How is she more accomplished on clay? She has two titles on the surface, IIRC.

Everyone wants to make it seem like Serena is a clay court player, she's not. She plays the same game she does on every surface on clay.

And Nadia basically owned clay in 2006, she didn't lose a match until she got injured. EVERYONE commented on what a tough break that was. Would she have beaten Justine at Roland Garros? Who knows, but everyone would probably have told you that she was second favorite to Justine for that title.

I'm not really sure what you're standards are, but the achievements don't mean much especially when there's such a dominant figure who gets in the way. There are only so many titles to win. There are only a handful of women who have won at least two Tier I clay court tiles, Nadia is one of them.

Can you name a top player who actually changes their game dramatically on clay? Serena is no different than anyone else.

pav
Nov 1st, 2011, 05:37 AM
Sharapova on the poll:confused:

Svetlana)))
Nov 1st, 2011, 05:47 AM
Why is Julia Görges not in the poll? :oh:

http://h4.abload.de/img/flopney0ouw.gif
On topic, Sveta and Fran are two players who truly use the clay court to their advantage. Ivanovic in all her glory caught lightning in a bottle.

Jajaloo
Nov 1st, 2011, 05:49 AM
Na Li :oh:

justineheninfan
Nov 1st, 2011, 05:59 AM
I'm going by a combination of clay court skills and achievements. But as you've mentioned, there's such a poor showing for most of these women, because A. when Justine played, she barely lost and B. since then, everyone has basically gotten worse. So in terms of achievement it's really not a shock that even the people who have won titles haven't won a lot.

From 2003 to 2007, there have been three women to beat Justine on red clay: Garbin, Petrova and Kuznetsova. Kuznetsova before that had one win over Justine out like 45 tries so beating Justine obviously requires more than Sveta can usually produce, yet she did it on clay. She also is the only player to get MPs against Justine during her title runs at RG. To me, this shows that she was one of the few legitimate threats to Justine even when Justine was at the top of her game. That alone makes me regard her higher than Ana. She has the extra title and was able to notch a win over Justine. I'm not really sure how you're justifying Ana over Sveta. Same for Serena. How is she more accomplished on clay? She has two titles on the surface, IIRC.

Everyone wants to make it seem like Serena is a clay court player, she's not. She plays the same game she does on every surface on clay.

And Nadia basically owned clay in 2006, she didn't lose a match until she got injured. EVERYONE commented on what a tough break that was. Would she have beaten Justine at Roland Garros? Who knows, but everyone would probably have told you that she was second favorite to Justine for that title.

I'm not really sure what you're standards are, but the achievements don't mean much especially when there's such a dominant figure who gets in the way. There are only so many titles to win. There are only a handful of women who have won at least two Tier I clay court tiles, Nadia is one of them.

Serena has 3 titles on clay. That is the same number of the so called clay court great Kuznetsova. Serenas 3 titles though including a French Open and two tier 1 titles. Kuznetsovas titles on clay are a French Open and two tier 2 titles. Advantage Serena. Serena beat Capriati and Justine back to back to win Rome prior to her FO triumph in 2002. Serena has beaten Justine on clay too, in straight sets to boot. As for Kuznetsova almost beating Justine at the 2005 French, Serena probably would have done so at the 2003 FO and defended her title without a certain incident late in the match. If you are suggesting Kuznetsova was more of a threat to Justine on clay than Serena I respectfully disagree. As a Justine fan I was always more worried about a match with Justine against Serena at the French than one against Kuznetsova.

2005 was also definitely not Justine at the top of her game. First off she dealt with a major viral infection all year (and some of 2004 too), and missed large chunks of it because. She nearly lost to Davenport that year on clay (lol) and outside of clay had terrible results which shows she was well below her best form, but because on clay her 60% was better than all the other girls 100% she was still winning, but far less impressively than in 2002, 2003, 2006, 2007. Obviously on other surfaces this is not the case so was reflected in her results once she got off clay. So I would not say Kuznetsova nearly beating Justine at the 2005 French shows she was a threat to Justine even at the top of her game. Justine at her best would be 2003, 2006, 2007, early 2004, and the 2002 clay season (minus RG).

Kuznetsova also plays the same game on clay she does on other surfaces. She probably is better on hard courts, has accomplished more on hard courts too (albeit with more events). She just seems like a clay courter to some since she ranks MUCH higher among her peers on clay since on hard courts there are so many top hard courters of this very tough hard court era better than her with all the real stars shining there.

The justification for Ana over Kuznetsova seems pretty simple. Both have a French Open title and French Open final. Anas were back to back years indicating she was a more real and sustained threat, albeit briefly. Kuznetsovas FO final and FO title were 3 years apart. Ana has a tier 1 title on the surface, Kuznetsova does not. Ana in fact denied Kuznetsova that directly by beating her in the final. Justine was a bad matchup for Ana, but Ana didnt have the chance to play her like 20 times as Kuznetsova did, if she did she would have eventually made an impact at some point (Kuznetsovas overall record against Justine both on clay and overall is still pathetic as you rightly pointed out).

Kuznetsova isnt more accomplished than Serena or Ana on clay, in fact slightly less. Why should everyone just presume she is clearly better than oth on clay, LOL! Even if one wants to say she is ahead she isnt far and away the #2 clay courter of the Justine era as this board potrays, but then again as I have said many times Kuznetsova is probably the most overrated player on TF for some strange reason. If we want to get subjective, which we both seem to be agreeing can be part of the topic, Serena seems to have been 1 match away from winning the French often, and was even probably very close to winning all of the 2003, 2009, 2010 French Opens. She seems like a bigger threat to win at the French much more often than Kuznetsova does.

Also Serena and Kuznetsova both playing their best, Serena wins, even on clay. The 2009 French was Kuznesova at her best and she barely beat a poor Serena in their quarterfinal match, and Serena had to choke a big lead in the 3rd set to lose to. Ana and Kuznetsova at their best on clay, I am not really sure.

I agree Petrova was the 2nd favorite for the 2006 French. That is a far cry from being the clear favorite to win as one poster suggested. Would she have beaten Justine if they met at the 2006 French. Only an outside chance at best. Petrova is a mental midget under pressure, and Justine was dominant at that event. Berlin is not Roland Garros, and Justine could have easily won the Berlin match too but Petrova just seemed hungrier at the end.

VeeJJ
Nov 1st, 2011, 06:36 AM
http://h4.abload.de/img/flopney0ouw.gif
On topic, Sveta and Fran are two players who truly use the clay court to their advantage. Ivanovic in all her glory caught lightning in a bottle.

FUCKING LOVE :inlove:

Svetlana)))
Nov 1st, 2011, 07:17 AM
justineheninfan giving Shvedbarilescu a run for his money :happy:

cecilija
Nov 1st, 2011, 07:29 AM
Serena has 3 titles on clay. That is the same number of the so called clay court great Kuznetsova. Serenas 3 titles though including a French Open and two tier 1 titles. Kuznetsovas titles on clay are a French Open and two tier 2 titles. Advantage Serena. Serena beat Capriati and Justine back to back to win Rome prior to her FO triumph in 2002. Serena has beaten Justine on clay too, in straight sets to boot. As for Kuznetsova almost beating Justine at the 2005 French, Serena probably would have done so at the 2003 FO and defended her title without a certain incident late in the match. If you are suggesting Kuznetsova was more of a threat to Justine on clay than Serena I respectfully disagree. As a Justine fan I was always more worried about a match with Justine against Serena at the French than one against Kuznetsova.

2005 was also definitely not Justine at the top of her game. First off she dealt with a major viral infection all year (and some of 2004 too), and missed large chunks of it because. She nearly lost to Davenport that year on clay (lol) and outside of clay had terrible results which shows she was well below her best form, but because on clay her 60% was better than all the other girls 100% she was still winning, but far less impressively than in 2002, 2003, 2006, 2007. Obviously on other surfaces this is not the case so was reflected in her results once she got off clay. So I would not say Kuznetsova nearly beating Justine at the 2005 French shows she was a threat to Justine even at the top of her game. Justine at her best would be 2003, 2006, 2007, early 2004, and the 2002 clay season (minus RG).

Kuznetsova also plays the same game on clay she does on other surfaces. She probably is better on hard courts, has accomplished more on hard courts too (albeit with more events). She just seems like a clay courter to some since she ranks MUCH higher among her peers on clay since on hard courts there are so many top hard courters of this very tough hard court era better than her with all the real stars shining there.

The justification for Ana over Kuznetsova seems pretty simple. Both have a French Open title and French Open final. Anas were back to back years indicating she was a more real and sustained threat, albeit briefly. Kuznetsovas FO final and FO title were 3 years apart. Ana has a tier 1 title on the surface, Kuznetsova does not. Ana in fact denied Kuznetsova that directly by beating her in the final. Justine was a bad matchup for Ana, but Ana didnt have the chance to play her like 20 times as Kuznetsova did, if she did she would have eventually made an impact at some point (Kuznetsovas overall record against Justine both on clay and overall is still pathetic as you rightly pointed out).

Kuznetsova isnt more accomplished than Serena or Ana on clay, in fact slightly less. Why should everyone just presume she is clearly better than oth on clay, LOL! Even if one wants to say she is ahead she isnt far and away the #2 clay courter of the Justine era as this board potrays, but then again as I have said many times Kuznetsova is probably the most overrated player on TF for some strange reason. If we want to get subjective, which we both seem to be agreeing can be part of the topic, Serena seems to have been 1 match away from winning the French often, and was even probably very close to winning all of the 2003, 2009, 2010 French Opens. She seems like a bigger threat to win at the French much more often than Kuznetsova does.

Also Serena and Kuznetsova both playing their best, Serena wins, even on clay. The 2009 French was Kuznesova at her best and she barely beat a poor Serena in their quarterfinal match, and Serena had to choke a big lead in the 3rd set to lose to. Ana and Kuznetsova at their best on clay, I am not really sure.

I agree Petrova was the 2nd favorite for the 2006 French. That is a far cry from being the clear favorite to win as one poster suggested. Would she have beaten Justine if they met at the 2006 French. Only an outside chance at best. Petrova is a mental midget under pressure, and Justine was dominant at that event. Berlin is not Roland Garros, and Justine could have easily won the Berlin match too but Petrova just seemed hungrier at the end.

You are as clueless on Justine as they come. Please change your nick because you are not fooling anybody here :lol:

The 2nd Law
Nov 1st, 2011, 09:43 AM
May I just remind everyone of Ana's RG record pre epic slump
2005 (debut): QF (loss to Petrova)
2006: 3r (loss to Myskina)
2007: Final - (loss to Henin)
2008: :oh:

So in her first four RG appearances Ana lost to Petrova, Myskina and Henin, lost before the QFs only once, made one final and won once. These aren't exactly Nadal/Henin figures, but you have to admit they're impressive. Don't call me delusional, the Azarenka fans were harping on (and rightly so) about how Vika had only lost to Ree at the AO for a stretch.
Post 2008 doesn't count :oh:

TheHangover
Nov 1st, 2011, 10:01 AM
why stosur is winning this?

rechi
Nov 1st, 2011, 10:48 AM
the last 2 years Schiavone... before that Kuzi!

But right now i would say Fancesca Schiavone is the best active clay court player.

Sam L
Nov 1st, 2011, 10:52 AM
Fran, easily.

Michael*
Nov 1st, 2011, 11:16 AM
Sveta when she is on. By far.

Then probably Petrova or Franny :shrug:

Aryman3
Nov 1st, 2011, 11:27 AM
If Fran why is she losing so easily to Aga lately

StephenUK
Nov 1st, 2011, 01:36 PM
You are as clueless on Justine as they come. Please change your nick because you are not fooling anybody here :lol:

Agreed, but also add totally clueless on Sveta and Serena!

I am really gobsmacked as to how 6 people could have voted for Serena Williams in this poll. Either they are totally cretinous or they have misread the poll as best active player, who happens to be playing a clay court match, despite the fact she is useless on the surface.

Because, Serena is totally useless, rubbish, hopeless on clay. Like another useless clay court great, Martina Navratilova in 82 and 84, she was able to win Roland Garros in 2002, no thanks to any clay court abilities, but due to her absolute supremacy in the game at that time - plus some good fortune that the Belgians flopped and Capriati, who should have beaten her in the semi, choked. In fact, it is a testament to Serena's all-round greatness that she was able to win a grand slam on a surface that she is so wretched on and she deserves a huge amount of credit for it, but that is not the same as calling her a clay court great, quite the opposite.

Red clay neutralises all Serena's strengths - she cannot get the free points on serve or attack the second serve so effectively; she is forced into long rallies which are harder for her to win than short ones; plus, not having been brought up on the surface, the movement is never natural for her. As has been demonstrated in the nine long years since she won a tournament of any kind on this surface (I am leaving aside green clay which is a bit different as we all know), a slight slip from this absolute supremacy and Serena has been a goner ever since. Of course, she has a good enough game and willpower to usually get through the first week unscathed but faced with a half-decent opponent with a more natural clay game and she is toast, usually at the quarter-final stage. How can she have nearly won Roland Garros in 03, 09 etc when she has not been in the final since 2002?

I really don't see how Justine could have been more scared of Serena on clay than Sveta, given the fact that Sveta beat her more times on the surface, only the Serena aura could have overawed her.

Leaving aside Serena, who clearly is not the best, this is a very hard question, as no-one has filled Justine's place as queen of this surface. I can see why Sam Stosur has come top, but it has not translated into many tournament wins, let alone a grand slam, so she is really to be bracketed with Jankovic and Safina as players who maybe should have won RG but haven't. Ivanovic and Sveta have at least won, but their results on the surface ever since have been so poor that it is hard to judge them now. Schiavone is just the best player at RG over the last two years.

So really it is impossible to say, because the current crop are all about as illustrious on the surface as the forgotten Iva Majoli. Forget about Chris Evert or Justine, even a half decent Arantxa or Conchita would beat this lot hands down.

Cajka
Nov 1st, 2011, 01:38 PM
If Fran why is she losing so easily to Aga lately

I love Aga, but this is not the way to prove that Aga is a better clay court player than Fran.

Balltossovic
Nov 1st, 2011, 01:53 PM
1. Sveta (her movement on clay is far superior to anyone else in the game)

2. Ana (serve and forehand combo on clay = :inlove:)

3. Fran (I put her ahead of JJ simply because she's made two RG finals and won one)

4. Jelena (she's simply a joy to watch on the stuff)



Question for OP: The fuck is Wozniacki doing on the poll?:facepalm:

Banditoo
Nov 1st, 2011, 03:17 PM
Venus is great clay player. I can't understand why she isn't take a place in poll.

dynamoRockstarr
Nov 1st, 2011, 03:46 PM
Yeah, she has the clay court titles, but no French Open title, just a finalist :sobbing:

And people think fast court when they hear Venus, not that slow, nasty, orange crap :fiery:

n1_and_uh_noone
Nov 1st, 2011, 04:11 PM
Have to hand it to justinehenin"fan". Will adopt just about any tune to try and win an argument. I am sure there have been threads long enough to make him/her double back on his/her own opinion.

Based on ability on the surface, I would love to give it to Schiavone (last 2 years) or Petrova. But Francesca has not had the greatest consistency, Petrova has underachieved, so maybe I should nominate Ivanovic, though she really does not have the biggest scalps even on clay, and besides, her suckage since 2008 is a compelling point. Clijsters would be a good pick if only she had a RG title: good movement and consistency, plus firepower to end points. Kuznetsova, apart from 2-3 years, has also not dazzled on clay.

hwanmig
Jun 7th, 2012, 01:24 AM
Sharapova:tape: She may likely rank above Ivanovic and Kuznetsova after this tournament:o.

dsanders06
Jun 7th, 2012, 01:29 AM
No comment til Saturday :oh:

Sam L
Jun 7th, 2012, 01:35 AM
Best clay court player has no RG? :lol:

jameshazza
Jun 7th, 2012, 01:37 AM
Are we talking about results or game. Also are we talking about players as they currently are, or when they had a brain?

Viktymise
Jun 7th, 2012, 01:41 AM
"Fran"? Her best wins on clay have been against Stosur and a fat and injured Serena, and she's been a pro for over a decade.

Lord Choc Ice
Jun 7th, 2012, 07:51 AM
Caro Wozniacki.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4ixcbXPTI1r46t3xo1_400.gif

Queenpova
Jul 20th, 2012, 04:07 PM
Stosur beating Maria

http://i47.tinypic.com/28mfuyg.gif

Gaz.
Jul 20th, 2012, 04:09 PM
^ Schiavone beating Maria :oh:

Harry.
Jul 20th, 2012, 04:43 PM
Errani. :hysteric:

I mean, currently.. maybe Stosur? She's the only one who truly seems to consistently get results on clay these days. But you know, in terms of game and maybe their peaks on clay, I'd definitely put Ana, Sveta, Nadia and Jelena in the mix. Jelena especially is a very underrated player on clay.

indicapuja
Jul 20th, 2012, 05:09 PM
Kuznetsova

NashaP
Jul 20th, 2012, 05:13 PM
The answer is obviously Maria. She has turned into a claycourter now. She would beat any of the players listed on red clay.

denny5576
Jul 20th, 2012, 05:25 PM
there is no need even to think - it is Maria


2012 Singles Clay Court Leaders

1 MARIA SHARAPOVA 18 1 94.74
2 SERENA WILLIAMS 17 1 94.44
3 SARA ERRANI 29 4 87.88
4 VICTORIA AZARENKA 12 3 80.00
4 KIKI BERTENS 12 3 80.00
4 KAIA KANEPI 12 3 80.00
7 SAMANTHA STOSUR 18 5 78.26
8 YAROSLAVA SHVEDOVA 18 6 75.00
9 AGNIESZKA RADWANSKA 12 4 75.00
10 ALIZE CORNET 14 5 73.68
11 NA LI 11 4 73.33
12 HEATHER WATSON 8 3 72.73
13 ANGELIQUE KERBER 13 5 72.22
14 PETRA KVITOVA 10 4 71.43
14 FLAVIA PENNETTA 10 4 71.43
16 DOMINIKA CIBULKOVA 14 6 70.00


Singles Clay Court Career

1 CHRIS EVERT 314 20 94.01
2 STEFFI GRAF 273 30 90.10
3 JUSTINE HENIN 130 22 85.53
4 MONICA SELES 142 25 85.03
5 MARTINA NAVRATILOVA 201 46 81.38
6 MARTINA HINGIS 109 25 81.34
7 MARIA SHARAPOVA 87 20 81.31
8 GABRIELA SABATINI 196 49 80.00
9 VENUS WILLIAMS 145 42 77.54
11 ARANTXA SANCHEZ-VICARIO 342 103 76.85
12 CONCHITA MARTINEZ 294 88 76.96
13 LINDSAY DAVENPORT 120 35 77.42
14 SERENA WILLIAMS 103 30 77.44
15 DINARA SAFINA 114 39 74.51

RenaSlam.
Jul 20th, 2012, 05:26 PM
Maria is a clay court specialist now, 5 of her last 6 titles have come on clay. :worship:

SerenaSiren
Jul 20th, 2012, 06:15 PM
Sharapova followed by svetlana

RenaPova
Jul 20th, 2012, 06:51 PM
Stosur beating Maria

http://i47.tinypic.com/28mfuyg.gif

That gif... :sobbing::sobbing::sobbing:

brickhousesupporter
Jul 20th, 2012, 06:59 PM
Sam Stosur's game is the best suited for clay
That does not mean she is the best on it.

Miracle Worker
Jul 20th, 2012, 07:27 PM
The Empress of Rome :hearts:




And then far far behind her Venus :oh:

Potato
Jul 20th, 2012, 07:44 PM
Kuznetsova.

Doully
Jul 20th, 2012, 07:58 PM
Maria and Sveta as arguably the best active clay-courters.

Peak WTA.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwn6f1PftP1qdlkgg.gif

AcesHigh
Jul 20th, 2012, 08:04 PM
Whoever put Maria needs to be tested for drugs.

SantaBabyTennis
Jul 20th, 2012, 08:19 PM
If Stosur weren't a (adorable) head case, she'd be as dominant on clay as Nadal. Otherwise Maria and Na.

Queenpova
Jul 20th, 2012, 08:25 PM
Whoever put Maria needs to be tested for drugs.

Rome winner 2011-2012, stuttgart 2012, RG 2012

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_xqUigRGFf2M/TAZDSDGiVyI/AAAAAAAAAQ8/8mRSObpH3iI/StayPressed.gif%3E

NashaP
Jul 20th, 2012, 08:43 PM
Whoever put Maria needs to be tested for drugs.

http://i45.tinypic.com/13zs4s4.jpg

Check the stats honey

ChuckDee
Jul 20th, 2012, 09:54 PM
Nube here. I voted Sam.

SantaBabyTennis
Jul 21st, 2012, 01:05 AM
In their last two matches, Stosur beat Maria, and Maria beat Stosur in three very close, tight sets. It's one of my favorite matches this year. It's not laughable that Stosur might beat Maria. It's really a matter of whether calm, relaxed Stosur or nervous wreck Stosur shows up. In my delusional lala fantasy, Stosur teaches Maria to play the net.

Out of curiosity, why are people so loath to give certain players the credit they're due?

HRHoliviasmith
Jul 21st, 2012, 01:20 AM
Stosur or Na Li, when she isn't gifting away matches. :smash:

dsanders06
Jul 21st, 2012, 01:22 AM
Maria in terms of achievements, Kuznetsova in terms of talent/potential.

Doully
Jul 21st, 2012, 01:29 AM
Hilarious that basically a Rome or Madrid title is the only thing separating Maria from the likes of Ana, Sveta and Fran in terms of achievement :lol:

jameshazza
Jul 21st, 2012, 03:42 AM
Hilarious that basically a Rome or Madrid title is the only thing separating Maria from the likes of Ana, Sveta and Fran in terms of achievement :lol:

Has anyone since Henin went undefeated on red clay in a season?
Mari's only lost 5 matches on red clay in the past four seasons. I'm sure the others cannot say that.

SantaBabyTennis
Jul 21st, 2012, 04:12 AM
Hilarious that basically a Rome or Madrid title is the only thing separating Maria from the likes of Ana, Sveta and Fran in terms of achievement :lol:

I don't understand your meaning.

Lord Choc Ice
Jul 21st, 2012, 04:35 AM
Whoever put Maria needs to be tested for drugs.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6qakkksEJ1rvr01vo1_250.gif

Sam lost to Errani and Dulko at her last two RGs and she hasn't even won one, her only clay title was green clay well over 2 years ago. Anyone voting for HER is on drugs :oh:.

Doully
Jul 21st, 2012, 04:54 AM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6qakkksEJ1rvr01vo1_250.gif

Sam lost to Errani and Dulko at her last two RGs and she hasn't even won one, her only clay title was green clay well over 2 years ago. Anyone voting for HER is on drugs :oh:.

Well the poll was opened last October :lol:
Shows what a difference a year can make.

Though I am going :tape: @ those mentioning Sam, Li etc after the thread was bumped. I love them but no.

I don't understand your meaning.

Ana, Sveta (especially) and Fran to a lesser degree have arguably better RG records than Maria which leaves only the likes of P5/PM clay tournies as the next best thing for comparison.

I just think it would equal them out with Maria should one of them win Rome or Madrid(assuming it returns back to red clay). Especially Ana who already has former T1 Berlin tucked under her belt. This, of course, only applies to career achievements.

It wasn't meant as a dig at Maria. I just find it quite amusing how quickly the title of best active clay-courter can shift in women's tennis. This time last year we would have been snickering at the mere idea of Maria even being included in a poll like this (even despite her W in Rome).

Thiudans
Jul 21st, 2012, 05:03 AM
Lol - Maria Sharapova's being in this poll.

Charlatan
Jul 21st, 2012, 05:37 AM
Lol - Maria Sharapova's being in this poll.

Yeah because she is such a scrub on clay

AcesHigh
Jul 21st, 2012, 07:48 AM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6qakkksEJ1rvr01vo1_250.gif

Sam lost to Errani and Dulko at her last two RGs and she hasn't even won one, her only clay title was green clay well over 2 years ago. Anyone voting for HER is on drugs :oh:.

If we're going on achievements, Maria isn't the best
IF we're going on skill, Maria isn't the best

madmax
Jul 21st, 2012, 09:11 AM
If we're going on achievements, Maria isn't the best
IF we're going on skill, Maria isn't the best

who is better than her on red stuff over the last two years then?:confused:
Enlighten us please...

WixsonFan
Jul 21st, 2012, 09:19 AM
Why is Wozniacki in the poll, she hasn't even reached the QF/SF at Roland Garros...

For me it's a tie between Li Na and Schiavone, with Sharapova behind

Joelina
Jul 21st, 2012, 09:27 AM
it is so obvious...Maria Sharapova ;)

doomsday
Jul 21st, 2012, 09:31 AM
who is better than her on red stuff over the last two years then?:confused:
Enlighten us please...

Oh, you don't want him to do that, trust me.

In their last two matches, Stosur beat Maria, and Maria beat Stosur in three very close, tight sets. It's one of my favorite matches this year. It's not laughable that Stosur might beat Maria. It's really a matter of whether calm, relaxed Stosur or nervous wreck Stosur shows up. In my delusional lala fantasy, Stosur teaches Maria to play the net.

Out of curiosity, why are people so loath to give certain players the credit they're due?

I always said that on red clay, Stosur is definitely the biggest obstacle for every player when her game is ON. Stosur might beat Maria but her best chances are definitely on clay if not only on that surface. She only beat Maria in YEC cause Sharapova was injured and we ALL know that even Stosur.

Mr.Sharapova
Jul 21st, 2012, 10:03 AM
Maria Sharapova is clearly the best ACTIVE clay court player :shrug:. She won the French Open, she completely dominated the clay court season this year and she also has 2 more semis at the French to her name.

I think Sam is a close second, based on her style of play and that legendary run in 2010 :shrug:.

Matt01
Jul 21st, 2012, 12:26 PM
who is better than her on red stuff over the last two years then?:confused:
Enlighten us please...


Where or when did anyone say that it must be in the last 2 years? :confused:

madmax
Jul 21st, 2012, 12:46 PM
Where or when did anyone say that it must be in the last 2 years? :confused:

well, maybe because the last few years are more relevant than, let's say, the last 10 years or so?:confused:

Matt01
Jul 21st, 2012, 12:53 PM
well, maybe because the last few years are more relevant than, let's say, the last 10 years or so?:confused:


So the last two years where Pova had the most success on clay are of course the most important :lol:

MM_1257
Jul 21st, 2012, 12:55 PM
Ana, Sveta (especially) and Fran to a lesser degree have arguably better RG records than Maria

I am a big Ana fan... And I am also Maria's fan. I took a look at their W/L ratio at RG... Maria, being a scrub on clay, has won 37 matches in RG in her career and lost 9; Ana has won 25 matches and lost 7.

Kon.
Jul 21st, 2012, 12:56 PM
Sharapova, clearly.

brickhousesupporter
Jul 21st, 2012, 01:01 PM
So the last two years where Pova had the most success on clay are of course the most important :lol:
Clearly, yes......

duhcity
Jul 21st, 2012, 01:08 PM
Jelena :hysteric:

MM_1257
Jul 21st, 2012, 02:39 PM
I am a big Ana fan... And I am also Maria's fan. I took a look at their W/L ratio at RG... Maria, being a scrub on clay, has won 37 matches in RG in her career and lost 9; Ana has won 25 matches and lost 7.

To go on with the W/L recored in RG: Maria and Sveta are tied - 37W/9L - both have 1 title, ok Sveta has the runner up that Maria doesn't.
Fran: 36 W/11L but she plays longer...

Kon.
Jul 21st, 2012, 02:43 PM
To go on with the W/L recored in RG: Maria and Sveta are tied - 37W/9L - both have 1 title, ok Sveta has the runner up that Maria doesn't.
Fran: 36 W/11L but she plays longer...

To sum it all up:
Ana 78% , 1 W, 1 F, 1 QF
Fran 76%, 1 W, 1 F, 1 QF
Sveta 80% 1 W, 1 F, 1 SF, 2 QF
Maria 80% 1 W, 2 SF, 3 QF

dsanders06
Jul 21st, 2012, 03:33 PM
To sum it all up:
Ana 78% , 1 W, 1 F, 1 QF
Fran 76%, 1 W, 1 F, 1 QF
Sveta 80% 1 W, 1 F, 1 SF, 2 QF
Maria 80% 1 W, 2 SF, 3 QF

Yup, Kuznetsova has a marginally better RG record than Maria, but Maria cancels that out with her 2 Rome titles whereas Kuznetsova's biggest title on clay (other than RG) is Stuttgart :shrug:

And I'm assuming no-one but the Willytards is deluded enough to think Serena has a case.

brickhousesupporter
Jul 21st, 2012, 03:37 PM
Yup, Kuznetsova has a marginally better RG record than Maria, but Maria cancels that out with her 2 Rome titles whereas Kuznetsova's biggest title on clay (other than RG) is Stuttgart :shrug:

And I'm assuming no-one but the Willytards is deluded enough to think Serena has a case.
You just couldn't help yourself........


I am willing to bet any amount of money that on any red clay, Serena vs Maria.....Serena would win. Would you be willing to make the same bet. So much for being the best huh?

dsanders06
Jul 21st, 2012, 03:38 PM
You just couldn't help yourself........


I am willing to bet any amount of money that on any red clay, Serena vs Maria.....Serena would win. Would you be willing to make the same bet. So much for being the best huh?

Too bad we'll never find out if Serena can't even scramble her way past the Razzanos the WTA on red clay.

brickhousesupporter
Jul 21st, 2012, 03:42 PM
Too bad we'll never find out if Serena can't even scramble her way past the Razzanos the WTA on red clay.
Why.....There is alway next season.......I mean she did beat her on green, and blue clay (and everything in between for that matter)......red is next. Wait for it.

doomsday
Jul 21st, 2012, 03:45 PM
You just couldn't help yourself........


I am willing to bet any amount of money that on any red clay, Serena vs Maria.....Serena would win. Would you be willing to make the same bet. So much for being the best huh?

Too bad Serena withdrew from that semi over Na Li because I would have loved to see a rematch on red clay. We'll see next year if Serena can handle playing 5 five matches on real clay though.

brickhousesupporter
Jul 21st, 2012, 03:53 PM
Anyways.....I think currently there are no great clay court players and that has allowed anomolies like Na, Franny and Maria to have great clay seasons.

RenaSlam.
Jul 21st, 2012, 03:54 PM
Pova. I never thought this day would come :sobbing:

doomsday
Jul 21st, 2012, 04:03 PM
Anyways.....I think currently there are no great clay court players and that has allowed anomolies like Na, Franny and Maria to have great clay seasons.

There are no great player on the surface that's for sure but saying Maria, Fran and Na are anomalies is a lil too much.
Fran's win came out of nowhere, I agree but she still reached FO final the year after. Na's tennis was always suited for slower courts and she can be really dangerous on the surface when her game is ON.
As for Sharapova she won Strasbourg, Stuttgart, Rome (twice) only a blind hater would see her win at the French as an anomaly, she really improved on the surface and became the best active player ATM hence her major title not too long ago, just deal with it.

MM_1257
Jul 21st, 2012, 04:53 PM
You just couldn't help yourself........


I am willing to bet any amount of money that on any red clay, Serena vs Maria.....Serena would win. Would you be willing to make the same bet. So much for being the best huh?

Yes, Serena will win. It's because of the matchup... But one match doesn't make the stats different... BTW haven't checked for Serena, let me do it. And I don't say that Maria is a clay-court player... Well nor is Serena... If any of these, Sveta has the most suitable game for clay, but W/L show how successful they are, with a good game or with a terrible one for clay...
Serena: 39W / 11 L, plays there since 1998... 1 W, 1 SF, 5 QF... --- basically we can say all these women mentioned: Serena, Maria, Franny, Sveta, Sam, Ana... They are pretty close...

duhcity
Jul 21st, 2012, 05:53 PM
Why does everyone on this forum not regard Madrid because of the color of the clay.

Bitch about the altitude, the balls, whatever, but the goddamned clay is the same clay they use every year.

dsanders06
Jul 21st, 2012, 06:02 PM
Why does everyone on this forum not regard Madrid because of the color of the clay.

Bitch about the altitude, the balls, whatever, but the goddamned clay is the same clay they use every year.

You're right that it's not the colour of the clay itself, it's not even really the speed of the court, but this year they apparently put together the clay at the very last minute and very shoddily, which meant no-one could move properly on it, giving the best servers like Serena and Federer an even bigger advantage than on grass (because the serve is obviously the one shot which doesn't depend on movement atall). What other claycourt tournament would you ever see Verdasco beat Nadal? :lol:

jameshazza
Jul 21st, 2012, 06:03 PM
Madrid has always had poor quality clay, they just dyed it this year and made it even more slippery.

NashaMasha
Jul 21st, 2012, 06:26 PM
Too bad Serena withdrew from that semi over Na Li because I would have loved to see a rematch on red clay. We'll see next year if Serena can handle playing 5 five matches on real clay though.

Na Li would have probably won that Semifinal .:) She played in Rome pretty awesome (yes till the second part of second set in final)

SunshineSlam
Jul 21st, 2012, 06:28 PM
Caroline:
- Titles at Charleston, Brussels
- Undefeated champion at the MPS Group Championships
- Finals at Madrid, Stuttgart, Bastad
- Solid W/L ratio at Roland Garros

dsanders06
Jul 21st, 2012, 06:41 PM
Caroline:
- Titles at Charleston, Brussels
- Undefeated champion at the MPS Group Championships
- Finals at Madrid, Stuttgart, Bastad
- Solid W/L ratio at Roland Garros

:hysteric:

NashaP
Jul 21st, 2012, 06:55 PM
If we're going on achievements, Maria isn't the best
IF we're going on skill, Maria isn't the best

http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=2246209&t=o (http://gifsoup.com/view/2246209/you-mad-okay.html)

Doully
Jul 21st, 2012, 07:40 PM
Caroline:
- Titles at Charleston, Brussels
- Undefeated champion at the MPS Group Championships
- Finals at Madrid, Stuttgart, Bastad
- Solid W/L ratio at Roland Garros

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f337/Gainsy/tumblr_m5xl7htz1e1ryt3yso1_500.gif

Charlatan
Jul 21st, 2012, 07:46 PM
Caroline:
- Titles at Charleston, Brussels
- Undefeated champion at the MPS Group Championships
- Finals at Madrid, Stuttgart, Bastad
- Solid W/L ratio at Roland Garros

:sobbing:

Vartan
Jul 21st, 2012, 07:48 PM
Why is Wozniacki in the poll, she hasn't even reached the QF/SF at Roland Garros...

For me it's a tie between Li Na and Schiavone, with Sharapova behind

:spit: what has Li won except for the RG?

Doully
Jul 21st, 2012, 07:50 PM
:spit: what has Li won except for the RG?

...should have a Rome title. :sobbing:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f337/Gainsy/tumblr_lmlzq9WFMU1qaoq1c.gif

MakarovaFan
Jul 21st, 2012, 08:06 PM
Anyways.....I think currently there are no great clay court players and that has allowed anomolies like Na, Franny and Maria to have great clay seasons.
Na and Fran have never had great clay court seasons....they have had A great clay court TOURNAMENT.

Miracle Worker
Jul 21st, 2012, 08:10 PM
Caroline:
- Titles at Charleston, Brussels
- Undefeated champion at the MPS Group Championships
- Finals at Madrid, Stuttgart, Bastad
- Solid W/L ratio at Roland Garros

:worship:

I love you :D Who are you? :tape:

Kon.
Jul 21st, 2012, 08:17 PM
:worship:

I love you :D Who are you? :tape:

TWAT winner 2013 if he/she keeps it up I guess.

Miracle Worker
Jul 21st, 2012, 08:23 PM
^ He has my vote :bounce:

Oh, you have Grigor in your avatar :inlove:

madmax
Jul 21st, 2012, 08:32 PM
...should have a Rome title. :sobbing:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f337/Gainsy/tumblr_lmlzq9WFMU1qaoq1c.gif

LOL...Maria should have won without much fuss if anything:wavey:

Kon.
Jul 21st, 2012, 08:33 PM
^ He has my vote :bounce:

Oh, you have Grigor in your avatar :inlove:

Mine too. :lol: Great trolling so far.

Oh and Grigor is love. :inlove:

Charlatan
Jul 21st, 2012, 08:39 PM
LOL...Maria should have won without much fuss if anything:wavey:

:rolls:

madmax :hearts: never fail to disappoint

Mr.Sharapova
Jul 21st, 2012, 09:06 PM
Caroline:
- Titles at Charleston, Brussels
- Undefeated champion at the MPS Group Championships
- Finals at Madrid, Stuttgart, Bastad
- Solid W/L ratio at Roland Garros

http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad151/Milot_Sheremeti/tumblr_ligqu6krzj1qe0eclo1_r13_500.gif

HRHoliviasmith
Jul 21st, 2012, 10:14 PM
...should have a Rome title. :sobbing:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f337/Gainsy/tumblr_lmlzq9WFMU1qaoq1c.gif

THIS. :rolleyes:

HRHoliviasmith
Jul 21st, 2012, 10:18 PM
Ooou girl, you missed all the action :oh:

i did? :o spill it. :p

CrossCourt~Rally
Jul 21st, 2012, 10:27 PM
i did? :o spill it. :p

Is it just me, or are all of the posts out of order ? :oh:

HRHoliviasmith
Jul 21st, 2012, 10:40 PM
Is it just me, or are all of the posts out of order ? :oh:

lol. i need details though. :lol:

Craig.
Jul 22nd, 2012, 01:44 AM
Whoever put Maria needs to be tested for drugs.

Whoever put her in the poll? Really?

Nicolás89
Jul 22nd, 2012, 01:48 AM
Maria is not a clay courter though. Neither is Sarin. It is a toss between Kuzzy, Stosur & Fran, but considering Kuzzy isn't a player anymore I gotta say it is Fran.

Fantasy Hero
Jul 22nd, 2012, 08:36 AM
Maria is not a clay courter though. Neither is Sarin. It is a toss between Kuzzy, Stosur & Fran, but considering Kuzzy isn't a player anymore I gotta say it is Fran.

agree with that.

August
Jul 22nd, 2012, 09:32 AM
I'd say Stosur can play best on clay, yet she isn't that great in final stages of slams, Masha is currently who has best chances to win clay tourneys.

justineheninfan
Jul 23rd, 2012, 02:38 PM
Maria with Serena a close second. If Serena hadnt bombed the French would be her.

Miss Amor
Jul 21st, 2013, 03:11 PM
Serena

ElusiveChanteuse
Jul 21st, 2013, 03:16 PM
Well if someone opens a same thread now the outcome will be totally different.:oh:

!VamosRafa!
Jul 21st, 2013, 04:18 PM
Voted for Wozniacki :shrug:

Bad Blood
Jul 21st, 2013, 06:21 PM
You just couldn't help yourself........


I am willing to bet any amount of money that on any red clay, Serena vs Maria.....Serena would win. Would you be willing to make the same bet. So much for being the best huh?

Too bad we'll never find out if Serena can't even scramble her way past the Razzanos the WTA on red clay.

http://i32.tinypic.com/3094wpe.gif

brickhousesupporter
Jul 21st, 2013, 06:35 PM
Why.....There is alway next season.......I mean she did beat her on green, and blue clay (and everything in between for that matter)......red is next. Wait for it.
Pats self on back!

brickhousesupporter
Jul 21st, 2013, 06:36 PM
Too bad Serena withdrew from that semi over Na Li because I would have loved to see a rematch on red clay. We'll see next year if Serena can handle playing 5 five matches on real clay though.
You were saying?

bandabou
Jul 21st, 2013, 07:17 PM
:rolls: :haha: Doomsy, Doomsy...and now here we are. 2-0 h2h, 4-0 in sets. :lol:

rjd1111
Jul 21st, 2013, 07:46 PM
Serena lost like 1 match on clay in 2 years

a bunch of titles. 2nd Title at RG 11 years

apart For so many years it was deemed that

Clay was her weakness. Turned out that was wrong

Just needed a little more focus or want.

Rennae Stubbs said

When she wants something...No one can stop her.


The GOAT has expanded her GOATNESS .......to Clay