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thegreendestiny
Oct 31st, 2011, 12:17 PM
12 months ago, the barking lefty was merely another journeywoman in the making. Now, she has a far superior resume than Karolina.

What does Princess feel right now that a fellow "youngster" has already exceeded her?

Pops Maellard
Oct 31st, 2011, 12:19 PM
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01291/RoryMcIlroy_02_1291589a.jpg

goldenlox
Oct 31st, 2011, 12:21 PM
If you cant be happy being World #1 for 51 weeks in a calendar year, and winning back to back YE #1's, then you'll never be happy.
Caroline has 4 more opportunities to win a major in 2012.
Then she'll be 22 and have 4 more in 2013
Then she'll be 23 and have 4 more in 2014
On and on

bandabou
Oct 31st, 2011, 12:33 PM
:lol: And then she'll be 27 and still happy with 7 YE's in a row with no major. :lol:

I think Caro'd be more jealous if this was Aga or Vika that had surpassed her.

thegreendestiny
Oct 31st, 2011, 12:36 PM
:lol: And then she'll be 27 and still happy with 7 YE's in a row with no major. :lol:

I think Caro'd be more jealous if this was Aga or Vika that had surpassed her.

Yeah but if her bitch Babyfat wins a major before her, I think she will hang herself. :lol:

Patrick345
Oct 31st, 2011, 12:40 PM
Letīs say she is very aware of what happens around her. Six months ago, she was #1 without a Slam, but she must have felt pretty confident that she was the top dog of the young generation, so she was basically taking it on the chin, racking up the weeks at #1, and sitting out Serena, Clijsters, Venus, Na Li, Schiavone, Stosur, Zvonareva, Jankovic and company. Eventually the Slams would pile up and the weeks @ #1 would be validated.

Then it started to happen. Kvitova won Wimbledon and YEC. Azarenka won Miami again, pushed Kvitova all the day on Petraīs best surfaces, while making the SF of Wimbledon and the YEC final. Only Serena stopped her from making a deeper run at the USO. Radwanska changed her coach, and suddenly started to win bigger events and raised her level of tennis. Petkovic reached three Slam QFs, and showed she can hang with basically every player in the world game-wise. Lisicki came back out of nowhere, and won three tournaments in three months. Then there is always the threat that Pavlyuchenkova comes out of a winter break in shape and starts to tap into her potential. Goerges basically owned her on clay, Sharapova started to beat her.

So itīs not just Kvitova. Suddenly there are 6-8 youngish players that can and have beaten her, that have started to realize their potential in 2011, while it was a year of standstill at best for Wozniacki.

Break My Rapture
Oct 31st, 2011, 12:42 PM
Letīs say she is very aware of what happens around her. Six months ago, she was #1 without a Slam, but she must have felt pretty confident that she was the top dog of the young generation, so she was basically taking it on the chin, racking up the weeks at #1, and sitting out Serena, Clijsters, Venus, Na Li, Schiavone, Stosur, Zvonareva, Jankovic and company. Eventually the Slams would pile up and the weeks @ #1 would be validated.

Then it started to happen. Kvitova won Wimbledon and YEC. Azarenka won Miami again, pushed Kvitova all the day on Petraīs best surfaces, while making the SF of Wimbledon and the YEC final. Only Serena stopped her from making a deeper run at the USO. Radwanska changed her coach, and suddenly started to win bigger events and raised her level of tennis. Petkovic reached three Slam QFs, and showed she can hang with basically every player in the world game-wise. Lisicki came back out of nowhere, and won three tournaments in three months. Then there is always the threat that Pavlyuchenkova comes out of a winter break in shape and starts to tap into her potential. Goerges basically owned her on clay, Sharapova started to beat her.

So itīs not just Kvitova. Suddenly there are 6-8 youngish players that can and have beaten her, that have started to realize their potential in 2011, while it was a year of standstill at best for Wozniacki.
100% agree.

bandabou
Oct 31st, 2011, 12:54 PM
Letīs say she is very aware of what happens around her. Six months ago, she was #1 without a Slam, but she must have felt pretty confident that she was the top dog of the young generation, so she was basically taking it on the chin, racking up the weeks at #1, and sitting out Serena, Clijsters, Venus, Na Li, Schiavone, Stosur, Zvonareva, Jankovic and company. Eventually the Slams would pile up and the weeks @ #1 would be validated.

Then it started to happen. Kvitova won Wimbledon and YEC. Azarenka won Miami again, pushed Kvitova all the day on Petraīs best surfaces, while making the SF of Wimbledon and the YEC final. Only Serena stopped her from making a deeper run at the USO. Radwanska changed her coach, and suddenly started to win bigger events and raised her level of tennis. Petkovic reached three Slam QFs, and showed she can hang with basically every player in the world game-wise. Lisicki came back out of nowhere, and won three tournaments in three months. Then there is always the threat that Pavlyuchenkova comes out of a winter break in shape and starts to tap into her potential. Goerges basically owned her on clay, Sharapova started to beat her.

So itīs not just Kvitova. Suddenly there are 6-8 youngish players that can and have beaten her, that have started to realize their potential in 2011, while it was a year of standstill at best for Wozniacki.

Indeed...Caroline hasn't make progress this year and that should be the worrying thing. Petra's already left her in the dust and doesn't look like she's looking back. Vika is getting there..whereas Caro used to at least be already there, she no longer is there.

People mentioning Pavlu..well, if girl ever decides to work on her fitness then ALL hope is gonna be gone for Caro.

Mistress of Evil
Oct 31st, 2011, 12:59 PM
This Karolina hating obsession is really getting out of control! I guess, she is kinda concerned and disappointed but hardly is she in such a drama queen mood as its portrayed around here :lol: And the fact that Schiavone won a fucking Slam at 30 is proof enough that everything is possible :bounce:

hectopascal
Oct 31st, 2011, 01:04 PM
Then there is always the threat that Pavlyuchenkova comes out of a winter break in shape and starts to tap into her potential.

:o :spit:

Anyways, I felt sorry for Caro, having to pretend like she was injured whilst being thrashed by Goatra at the YEC. She does deserve credit though, for lasting longer than Jankovic or Safina at the top whilst under huge criticism and pressure to win a grand slam. But unlike them, she's still young and has plenty more years left to improve and win a GS.

BlueTrees
Nov 1st, 2011, 06:53 AM
She is LIVID

Pump-it-UP
Nov 1st, 2011, 06:57 AM
Of course she is. But it's good for her to have that attitude.

ZODIAC
Nov 1st, 2011, 09:14 AM
maybe Caro will be motivated to work harder during the off season...Kvitova is a very talented player and is more talented than pova,Caro ,Azarenka or Stosur.
Kvitova has done what JJ,Dementieva or Safina failed to do win a slam and YEC...ALL IN ONE YEAR.

Sergius
Nov 1st, 2011, 09:19 AM
This Karolina hating obsession is really getting out of control! I guess, she is kinda concerned and disappointed but hardly is she in such a drama queen mood as its portrayed around here :lol: And the fact that Schiavone won a fucking Slam at 30 is proof enough that everything is possible :bounce:

This. Now close the thread.

Apoleb
Nov 1st, 2011, 09:28 AM
Definitely. Look at the ultra-competitive, borderline evil looks she was giving Petra in their YEC match. She was determined not to make an ass of herself.

doktor
Nov 1st, 2011, 11:01 AM
Letīs say she is very aware of what happens around her. Six months ago, she was #1 without a Slam, but she must have felt pretty confident that she was the top dog of the young generation, so she was basically taking it on the chin, racking up the weeks at #1, and sitting out Serena, Clijsters, Venus, Na Li, Schiavone, Stosur, Zvonareva, Jankovic and company. Eventually the Slams would pile up and the weeks @ #1 would be validated.

Then it started to happen. Kvitova won Wimbledon and YEC. Azarenka won Miami again, pushed Kvitova all the day on Petraīs best surfaces, while making the SF of Wimbledon and the YEC final. Only Serena stopped her from making a deeper run at the USO. Radwanska changed her coach, and suddenly started to win bigger events and raised her level of tennis. Petkovic reached three Slam QFs, and showed she can hang with basically every player in the world game-wise. Lisicki came back out of nowhere, and won three tournaments in three months. Then there is always the threat that Pavlyuchenkova comes out of a winter break in shape and starts to tap into her potential. Goerges basically owned her on clay, Sharapova started to beat her.

So itīs not just Kvitova. Suddenly there are 6-8 youngish players that can and have beaten her, that have started to realize their potential in 2011, while it was a year of standstill at best for Wozniacki.

Preach.

Tatcher
Nov 1st, 2011, 01:31 PM
Lisicki came back out of nowhere, and won three tournaments in three months.
three ? She won two MM

Juju Nostalgique
Nov 1st, 2011, 05:44 PM
You asked:

http://i55.tinypic.com/axi8hg.gif

:hah:

thegreendestiny
Nov 3rd, 2011, 07:19 AM
technically, Wozniacki is also a Wimbledon champion :oh:

http://0.tqn.com/d/tennis/1/0/7/F/caroline-wozniacki.jpg

ExtremespeedX
Nov 3rd, 2011, 07:26 AM
Why would she be? Deep inside she knows she can't win slam or YEC, so I think she's just happy to keep her fake #1.

Johnbert
Nov 3rd, 2011, 07:32 AM
oh, a woz hater thread :oh:

Martian Jeza
Nov 3rd, 2011, 07:42 AM
What I love here and at tennis level in general, 1 year 1/2 ago, none did give a dam about Kvitova ! Now she won some big titles she attracted some new and most of them glory hunting fans ! No Kvitova isn't the best thing at all and about Wozniacki her main problems were : too much distractions, happy with very little ( not the way you become a champion ), she even exasperated her own father : you must do it !

If you don't go further, you go backwards, that's what Wozniacki did this season ! And as I said she has to chose : distractions or being serious at her job !

Trih
Nov 3rd, 2011, 07:47 AM
Letīs say she is very aware of what happens around her. Six months ago, she was #1 without a Slam, but she must have felt pretty confident that she was the top dog of the young generation, so she was basically taking it on the chin, racking up the weeks at #1, and sitting out Serena, Clijsters, Venus, Na Li, Schiavone, Stosur, Zvonareva, Jankovic and company. Eventually the Slams would pile up and the weeks @ #1 would be validated.

Then it started to happen. Kvitova won Wimbledon and YEC. Azarenka won Miami again, pushed Kvitova all the day on Petraīs best surfaces, while making the SF of Wimbledon and the YEC final. Only Serena stopped her from making a deeper run at the USO. Radwanska changed her coach, and suddenly started to win bigger events and raised her level of tennis. Petkovic reached three Slam QFs, and showed she can hang with basically every player in the world game-wise. Lisicki came back out of nowhere, and won three tournaments in three months. Then there is always the threat that Pavlyuchenkova comes out of a winter break in shape and starts to tap into her potential. Goerges basically owned her on clay, Sharapova started to beat her.

So itīs not just Kvitova. Suddenly there are 6-8 youngish players that can and have beaten her, that have started to realize their potential in 2011, while it was a year of standstill at best for Wozniacki.

Big quote for you, anyway I guess it would be a good thing if Caro is envy of Petra, it would show she cares to win something BIG and not just be #1.

Ellen Dawson
Nov 3rd, 2011, 09:47 AM
12 months ago, the barking lefty was merely another journeywoman in the making. Now, she has a far superior resume than Karolina.

What does Princess feel right now that a fellow "youngster" has already exceeded her?

No Caro isn't. She's too busy counting her millions. What about you? How are you handling your life? :kiss:

No1Curr
Nov 3rd, 2011, 10:08 AM
The poor soul is envious of Li Na and Sam Stosur's years, nevermind Petra's.

goldenlox
Nov 3rd, 2011, 10:54 AM
The poor soul is envious of Li Na and Sam Stosur's years, nevermind Petra's.
Why would she be jealous of a one slam wonder? Its retarded thinking, that can only come in GM, where haters keep shit stirring.

Caro is having fun now. She was #1 for 51 weeks this year, and its vacation time

CaroWozniacki (https://twitter.com/#!/CaroWozniacki)Caroline Wozniacki

Nice weather in Shanghai.Excited 2 c @McIlroyRory (https://twitter.com/#!/McIlroyRory) play:)Hoping 4 a good day and that my job as a cheerleader will still be there 2morrow lol

Walking 18 holes today, almost tougher than a three set tennis match;) Ill be in shape by day 4, perfect pre preseason lol..

No1Curr
Nov 3rd, 2011, 10:58 AM
Why would she be jealous of a one slam wonder? Its retarded thinking, that can only come in GM, where haters keep shit stirring.

Because she is too bad of a player to win one herself.

Caro is having fun now. She was #1 for 51 weeks this year, and its vacation time

CaroWozniacki (https://twitter.com/#!/CaroWozniacki)Caroline Wozniacki

Nice weather in Shanghai.Excited 2 c @McIlroyRory (https://twitter.com/#!/McIlroyRory) play:)Hoping 4 a good day and that my job as a cheerleader will still be there 2morrow lol

Walking 18 holes today, almost tougher than a three set tennis match;) Ill be in shape by day 4, perfect pre preseason lol..


I couldn't care less about her boring life with her borderline-deformed boyfriend.

goldenlox
Nov 3rd, 2011, 11:17 AM
Maybe these poor soul one slam wonders are all jealous of Sveta.
Start that thread. It fits in GM as much as this one does

TheHangover
Nov 3rd, 2011, 11:37 AM
She doesn't need to envy nobody as long as she has...






this:
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01291/RoryMcIlroy_02_1291589a.jpg

Coconut91
Nov 3rd, 2011, 11:42 AM
She doesn't need to envy nobody as long as she has...






this:

Seriously, he must be the nicest person on earth or something, because he's hard to look at... :tape:

I think everyone can be jealous of Petra's season, by the way. Not only Caro.

Excelscior
Nov 3rd, 2011, 01:50 PM
12 months ago, the barking lefty was merely another journeywoman in the making. Now, she has a far superior resume than Karolina.

What does Princess feel right now that a fellow "youngster" has already exceeded her?

I know you may be saying this for dramatic purposes of your post, but how was Petra a "journey woman", when she went to a Wimbledon semi-finals, was ranked #34 at 20 yrs old, and won the WTA's New Comer Of The Year Award; all a yr ago?

And before you tell me how good Caroline was in comparison, remember Offensive/power players usually take longer to develop than retrievers or mostly defenders. So that's wasn't surprising.

But I know what you're trying to say, and certainly got the point of your comparison and Caroline's possible envy or disappointment. ;)

Javi.
Nov 3rd, 2011, 01:57 PM
:lol: Typical Off-Season thread :hearts:

Cajka
Nov 3rd, 2011, 02:07 PM
I know you may be saying this for dramatic purposes of your post, but how was Petra a "journey woman", when she went to a Wimbledon semi-finals, was ranked #34 at 20 yrs old, and won the WTA's New Comer Of The Year Award; all a yr ago?

And before you tell me how good Caroline was in comparison, remember Offensive/power players usually take longer to develop than retrievers or mostly defenders. So that's wasn't surprising.

But I know what you're trying to say, and certainly got the point of your comparison and Caroline's possible envy or disappointment. ;)

Who? Serena, Venus and Maria who won a slam when they were teenagers? Vaidišova who played the slam SF when she was 17 and disappeared when she was supposed to "develop"? Ivanović who played a slam final when she was 19? Of course, Lindsay won a slam when she was 22, but she was a top 10 player for years until she won it. Of course, I'm not saying that the big hitters can't be late bloomers, but how can you say that power players take longer to develop? Is it again that comparison to Federer? :facepalm:

Edit: There's an age restriction now too.

Excelscior
Nov 3rd, 2011, 03:22 PM
Who? Serena, Venus and Maria who won a slam when they were teenagers? Vaidišova who played the slam SF when she was 17 and disappeared when she was supposed to "develop"? Ivanović who played a slam final when she was 19? Of course, Lindsay won a slam when she was 22, but she was a top 10 player for years until she won it. Of course, I'm not saying that the big hitters can't be late bloomers, but how can you say that power players take longer to develop? Is it again that comparison to Federer? :facepalm:

Edit: There's an age restriction now too.

Is this even up for debate? :confused: :help: :confused:

First of all, Teenagers aren't winning slams anymore, so your examples are presently out of date. Until it changes, we're in a brave new world today compared to yesteryear.

Serena may of won a slam at 17, but she didn't win her second one till 3 yrs later when she was 20. So she doesn't help your example. As far as Venus; any great young player on a good day or tournament can win a slam, if their talented enough.

Kvitova would of probably won Wimbledon last year, if she didn't run into Serena, but it wouldn't of made her a better player last year, than she is this year. I can tell you that.

Look at many of the top offensive players today; Julia Goerges, Kaia Kanepi, Anastasia Pav's, Lucie Safarova, etc., their all still developing, and have a lot of kinks to work out in their games (note: I don't consider Petkovic, Vika types as "offensive" or true power players). Some of them are 23, 24 yrs old and older.

And why did you bring up Federer? Didn't he win his first major at 22, while you had defensive Clay Courter's like Willander, Chang and Nadal (who has more offense and power now) winning French Opens as teenagers?

Lastly, what I said was a majority, not an absolute. There will always be exceptions. But those exceptions, don't change the overall facts. I thought you would know that?

Jane Lane
Nov 3rd, 2011, 03:29 PM
This off season is already past its peak. :yawn:

Excelscior
Nov 3rd, 2011, 03:31 PM
PS:

@Cajka

Since you liked to go back in the day.

If you wanna make the classic/definitive example, it would be Martina vs Chris.

Chris started out winning everything initially, Martina took longer to develop, but eventually caught up several years later, and never looked back.

Those two define the paradigm, statement I gave.

Nuff Said.

Cajka
Nov 3rd, 2011, 03:44 PM
Is this even up for debate? :confused: :help: :confused:

First of all, Teenagers aren't winning slams anymore, so your examples are presently out of date. Until it changes, we're in a brave new world today.

Serena may of won a slam at 17, but she didn't win her second one till 3 yrs later when she was 20. So she doesn't help your example. As far as Venus; any great young player on a good day or tournament can win a slam, if their talented enough.

Kvitova would of probably won Wimbledon last year, if she didn't run into Serena, but it wouldn't of made her a better player last year, than she is this year. I can tell you that.

Look at all the offensive players today; Julia Goerges, Kaia Kanepi, Anastasia Pav's, Lucie Safarova, etc., their all still developing, and have a lot of kinks to work out in their games.

And why did you bring up Federer? Didn't he win his first major at 22, while you had defensive Clay Courter's like Willander, Chang and Nadal (who has more offense and power now) winning French Opens as teenagers?

Latly, what I said was a majority, not an absolute. There will always be exceptions. But those exceptions, don't change the overall facts.

My question is: How can you say that the power players develop later? How is that a fact? Before the age restriction, big hitters were able to win slams as teenagers, just like countepunchers. Pete won his first slam as a 19 years old, just like Nadal. Marat Safin won his first slam when he was 20, Hewitt won his first slam at the same age (he wasn't a big hitter), Federer was 21 (you asked). In this era, 17 yo can't even be a top 100 player, let alone to win a slam. So, they all develop later. Nastya is one of the youngest players in top 100. Julia is 1 year younger than Sharapova and Ivanovic (who peaked 3-4 years ago or even earlier), she is few months younger than Golovina and 1 year younger than Vaidišova. All those girls are from her generation, they made some results few years ago, two of them are retired but Julia still hasn't made bigger results than them.

Break My Rapture
Nov 3rd, 2011, 03:51 PM
This off season is already past its peak. :yawn:
Yup.

Cajka
Nov 3rd, 2011, 03:55 PM
PS:

@Cajka

Since you liked to go back in the day.

If you wanna make the classic/definitive example, it would be Martina vs Chris.

Chris started out winning everything initially, Martina took longer to develop, but eventually caught up several years later, and never looked back.

Those two define the paradigm, statement I gave.

Nuff Said.

Nuff said? You didn't just compare Wozniacki to a player who became a pro almost 20 years before she was even born?!?! :confused: If you think this is a similar situation, good for you.

Invisible Fan
Nov 3rd, 2011, 04:10 PM
Maybe these poor soul one slam wonders are all jealous of Sveta.
Start that thread. It fits in GM as much as this one does

Stosur hasn't played a slam since winning one it's too early to class her as a one slam wonder :)

Excelscior
Nov 3rd, 2011, 04:48 PM
My question is: How can you say that the power players develop later? How is that a fact? Before the age restriction, big hitters were able to win slams as teenagers, just like countepunchers. Pete won his first slam as a 19 years old, just like Nadal. Marat Safin won his first slam when he was 20, Hewitt won his first slam at the same age (he wasn't a big hitter), Federer was 21 (you asked). In this era, 17 yo can't even be a top 100 player, let alone to win a slam. So, they all develop later. Nastya is one of the youngest players in top 100. Julia is 1 year younger than Sharapova and Ivanovic (who peaked 3-4 years ago or even earlier), she is few months younger than Golovina and 1 year younger than Vaidišova. All those girls are from her generation, they made some results few years ago, two of them are retired but Julia still hasn't made bigger results than them.

You keep forgetting and ignoring one thing with your examples (Sampras, etc.).

Michael Chang and Willander both won the French Open at 17. 2-4 yrs is a big difference at that age/developmental stage in Tennis.

Going back to current times. Name me one power player today (in this era), that's had any modicum of success (besides Petra) or consistency?

Maria, is the last of her era, where teenage players could come in, and make a big splash almost immediately. That was 7 yrs ago.

But Wozniaki was able to be number one for 2 seasons, and Azarenka was able to be a top 10 player from age 20, make Slam semi-finals and YEC finals, bye age 22. That's your current answer right there. Those two Players (Woz, Azarenka).

No more arguments.

Except for Pav's (and possibly Lisicki), I'm not sure if any of those girls are going to ever fulfill their potential any time soon, quite honestly. And she's still developing herself (Pav's).

End of discussion.

bobito
Nov 3rd, 2011, 05:12 PM
Who? Serena, Venus and Maria who won a slam when they were teenagers? Vaidišova who played the slam SF when she was 17 and disappeared when she was supposed to "develop"? Ivanović who played a slam final when she was 19? Of course, Lindsay won a slam when she was 22, but she was a top 10 player for years until she won it. Of course, I'm not saying that the big hitters can't be late bloomers, but how can you say that power players take longer to develop? Is it again that comparison to Federer? :facepalm:

Edit: There's an age restriction now too.

A point of pedantry perhaps but Venus Williams did not win a slam as a teenager (unless you are counting doubles). She was 20 when she won Wimbledon.

Things are a little different than they were in the 1980s and 90s. Since 2000 only 4 out of 48 slams have been won by teenagers and 3 of those were by 19 year-olds. The days of the teenage tennis sensation appear to have gone. Most probably due to greater strength in depth than anything else but age eligibility rules might also have an effect.

And before you tell me how good Caroline was in comparison, remember Offensive/power players usually take longer to develop than retrievers or mostly defenders. So that's wasn't surprising.

Difficult to say since "retrievers or mostly defenders" very seldom achieve the kind of success that Caroline Wozniacki has. You don't win as many tournaments as she has simply by retrieving, there is more to her game than that. She reads the game beautifully, always knows where her opponent is and hits the ball where they would least want it. It's not just defence, she is drawing errors out of her opponents. Most players of her generation didn't think about the game a great deal, they just walloped the the ball as hard as they could. And she was able to trick them into walloping it long or wide. It may not be pretty, but it's a lot more than just retrieving.

Of late her own weaknesses have been exposed and opponents are targeting them (notably her forehand). That I think is significant. Most of her recent losses have been to players who are playing the ball where she doesn't want it, rather than just whacking their favourite shot. Caroline Wozniacki has brought tactics back into women's tennis from both sides of the net

And that, I suspect, is something that concerns Caro a lot more than someone else of her generation achieving greater success than she has. Right now players with better shot making ability and a little bit of tactics are giving her a real headache. She desperately needs to do something about her forehand but that won't be easy. There are no quick fixes. It will need changes to her technique.

Cajka
Nov 3rd, 2011, 06:51 PM
You keep forgetting and ignoring one thing with your examples (Sampras, etc.).

Michael Chang and Willander both won the French Open at 17. 2-4 yrs is a big difference at that age/developmental stage in Tennis.

Going back to current times. Name me one power player today (in this era), that's had any modicum of success (besides Petra) or consistency?

Maria, is the last of her era, where teenage players could come in, and make a big splash almost immediately. That was 7 yrs ago.

But Wozniaki was able to be number one for 2 seasons, and Azarenka was able to be a top 10 player from age 20, make Slam semi-finals and YEC finals, bye age 22. That's your current answer right there. Those two Players (Woz, Azarenka).

No more arguments.

Except for Pav's (and possibly Lisicki), I'm not sure if any of those girls are going to ever fulfill their potential any time soon, quite honestly. And she's still developing herself (Pav's).

End of discussion.

Last 3 young slam winners were big hitters, Petra, Ana and Masha. Huge, strong, powerful girls. You should know that. Stop bringing Chang and Vilander in this discussion. It's really ridiculous. Look at Aga, she's peaking at 22, JJ peaked at 23, Vera peaked at 26. Caro is the only counterpuncher who peaked young in last few years. I know that you're trying to prove that Caroline is old, washed-up, evil, envious, green, alien... But, please!

Petra reached the 4th round of the slam when she was 18, just like Caro, it's not really that she couldn't do anything on the court before this year (although bandwagoners on this board are trying to prove that she started playing tennis as a 17 years old). Caroline became a top player earlier maybe because she matured earlier. Or she was more determined. We'll never know.

And just like bobito said, Caro is not mostly defender. I'm not sure that counterpuncher is the right word, but retrievers in this era have no chance to make a significant result.

marineblue
Nov 3rd, 2011, 07:38 PM
If someone is green with envy it's all the Wozniacki haters who long for Petra to get that 'meaningless no 1 statistic' next to her name :oh::hah:

Excelscior
Nov 3rd, 2011, 07:45 PM
If someone is green with envy it's all the Wozniacki haters who long for Petra to get that 'meaningless statistic' next to her name :oh::hah:

Is it a "meaningless statistic", or they know how much Caro truly values it, cause that's all she seems proud of, prepares and shoots for (#1)?

thegreendestiny
Nov 7th, 2011, 07:20 AM
Another reason to be jealous this season :oh:

http://in.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20111107&t=2&i=528294098&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=img-2011-11-07T082603Z_01_NOOTR_RTRMDNC_0_India-603572-1

ElusiveChanteuse
Nov 7th, 2011, 07:56 AM
http://static.quickmeme.com/media/social/qm.gif

ZODIAC
Nov 7th, 2011, 08:22 AM
Kvitova is the de facto no.1...Caro who

Johnbert
Nov 7th, 2011, 08:58 AM
Kvitova is the de facto no.1...Caro who

http://www.wtatennis.com/page/RankingsSingles/0,,12781~0~1~100,00.html

:shrug:

bandabou
Nov 7th, 2011, 09:04 AM
More nails in Caro's coffin. It's gonne be very very interesting next year. Caro has to make a big splash SOOON or it's gonna be very painful as no.1

Matt01
Nov 7th, 2011, 10:18 AM
Kvitova is the de facto no.1...Caro who


I prefer the real #1 over some imaginary, utopic one...

Ellen Dawson
Nov 10th, 2011, 08:11 AM
Yet if Petra has a bad 2012, people here are gonna be tearing her a new asshole. It's a no-win for her, too.

thegreendestiny
Nov 10th, 2011, 08:57 AM
Yet if Petra has a bad 2012, people here are gonna be tearing her a new asshole. It's a no-win for her, too.

From now on until the next five years or so, Kvitova will accomplish GOAT-hood and will continue to deny Caro and Pretenderenka their maiden slams. :oh:

MashaFan01
Nov 10th, 2011, 09:31 AM
http://omtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Green_Monster-omtimes.gif
Who me? - naaaahhhhh!!!!

Aramitz_II
Nov 10th, 2011, 03:16 PM
A point of pedantry perhaps but Venus Williams did not win a slam as a teenager (unless you are counting doubles). She was 20 when she won Wimbledon.

Things are a little different than they were in the 1980s and 90s. Since 2000 only 4 out of 48 slams have been won by teenagers and 3 of those were by 19 year-olds. The days of the teenage tennis sensation appear to have gone. Most probably due to greater strength in depth than anything else but age eligibility rules might also have an effect.



Difficult to say since "retrievers or mostly defenders" very seldom achieve the kind of success that Caroline Wozniacki has. You don't win as many tournaments as she has simply by retrieving, there is more to her game than that. She reads the game beautifully, always knows where her opponent is and hits the ball where they would least want it. It's not just defence, she is drawing errors out of her opponents. Most players of her generation didn't think about the game a great deal, they just walloped the the ball as hard as they could. And she was able to trick them into walloping it long or wide. It may not be pretty, but it's a lot more than just retrieving.

Of late her own weaknesses have been exposed and opponents are targeting them (notably her forehand). That I think is significant. Most of her recent losses have been to players who are playing the ball where she doesn't want it, rather than just whacking their favourite shot. Caroline Wozniacki has brought tactics back into women's tennis from both sides of the net

And that, I suspect, is something that concerns Caro a lot more than someone else of her generation achieving greater success than she has. Right now players with better shot making ability and a little bit of tactics are giving her a real headache. She desperately needs to do something about her forehand but that won't be easy. There are no quick fixes. It will need changes to her technique.

I don't think it will be that difficult. After all every hack and mug she will ran in to will try to challenge Her FH, so She will get a lot of battle practice.

Another thing is people overlooks Is that Wozniacki has not have a decent off season practice since summer 2010 thats 1― ear. Her vinter practice 2010/2011 was destroyed by her racket shift, And her summer practice 2011 by an injury.

pov
Nov 10th, 2011, 03:21 PM
"stole her wig"?? Is that some sort of drag-queen based slang?

pov
Nov 10th, 2011, 03:22 PM
:facepalm: This is so inane. Why not ask if any player at all is envious?

Aramitz_II
Nov 10th, 2011, 03:24 PM
If anybody should bee filled with envie it must be Kvitova. A slam is good but when you have a slam then the #1 is the next goal. There is only one thing to say to Kvitovas year ending.

So close, but no cigar. :p:p:p:p

dsanders06
Nov 10th, 2011, 03:55 PM
If anybody should bee filled with envie it must be Kvitova. A slam is good but when you have a slam then the #1 is the next goal. There is only one thing to say to Kvitovas year ending.

So close, but no cigar. :p:p:p:p

Yes, I'm sure Kvitova is daily going onto the WTA website and looking over Wozniacki's results this year and going green with envy. It's just a good job she's got the warmth of her Wimbledon and YEC trophies to snuggle up with at night to stop her doing something REALLY stupid :awww:

mac47
Nov 10th, 2011, 03:56 PM
aramitz, I fear Petra has somehow failed to get the message, because when we last saw her, she didn't appear to be thinking about how disappointed she ought to be about Caro still having the #1 ranking. Here she is:

8TQE6eC9u_4

But maybe it was just the effects of cheap Russian wine?

Jane Lane
Nov 10th, 2011, 03:58 PM
Yes, I'm sure Kvitova is daily going onto the WTA website and looking over Wozniacki's results this year and going green with envy. It's just a good job she's got the warmth of Adam to snuggle up with at night to stop her doing something REALLY stupid :awww:

Fixed. :p

bobito
Nov 10th, 2011, 04:02 PM
If anybody should bee filled with envie it must be Kvitova. A slam is good but when you have a slam then the #1 is the next goal. There is only one thing to say to Kvitovas year ending.

So close, but no cigar. :p:p:p:p

That's a frankly ridiculous thing to say. Tennis is a tournament sport not a league table. The rankings are basically an entry system, they decide who gets to play in tournaments and their seeding. You only become a champion by actually winning the major tournaments.

Petra got more than a cigar this year, she got this

http://images.goalzz.com/i.aspx?i=epa%2ftennis%2f2011-07%2f2011-07-02-00000102806613.jpg

and this

http://media.metronews.topscms.com/images/45/05/abd7c8a847c180d077f2bf248477.jpeg

and this

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2011/11/07/1226187/544037-czech-republic-wins-fed-cup.jpg

I don't like the way some people have used Petra's success purely as a way of bashing Wozniacki. It's disrespectful to both. But to suggest that Kvitova is envious of Wozniacki because she hasn't taken over at the top of the rankings yet is preposterous. :rolleyes:

Excelscior
Nov 10th, 2011, 04:18 PM
@Mac47

Yeah.

I watched the video with Petra and her teammates and coaches.

And she looks REAL upset she didn't get that #1 ranking, indeed. :confused: :tape: :confused:

@Bobito

I think Aramitz was being cute/funny (I think), though I think I understand what they were trying to say, if they weren't?

Aramitz_II
Nov 10th, 2011, 04:23 PM
Yes, I'm sure Kvitova is daily going onto the WTA website and looking over Wozniacki's results this year and going green with envy. It's just a good job she's got the warmth of her Wimbledon and YEC trophies to snuggle up with at night to stop her doing something REALLY stupid :awww:

I have never stated that she should be envy of her result, only the bottom line. Caro has not been close to any slam. Envy comes most often when you are really close. Few people envy Bill Gates for his billions, but they envy there neighbor having a slightly larger car. Besided with Kvitowas lack of stabillity this is maybe her only chance for a year-end, Wozniacki is not the only competitor

As i Say

So close, but no cigar:p:p:p

mac47
Nov 10th, 2011, 04:34 PM
... with Kvitowas lack of stabillity this is maybe her only chance for a year-end,

Oh my. I'm gleefully saving this one!

Aramitz_II
Nov 10th, 2011, 04:46 PM
That's a frankly ridiculous thing to say. Tennis is a tournament sport not a league table. The rankings are basically an entry system, they decide who gets to play in tournaments and their seeding. You only become a champion by actually winning the major tournaments.

Petra got more than a cigar this year, she got this

http://images.goalzz.com/i.aspx?i=epa%2ftennis%2f2011-07%2f2011-07-02-00000102806613.jpg

and this

http://media.metronews.topscms.com/images/45/05/abd7c8a847c180d077f2bf248477.jpeg

and this

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2011/11/07/1226187/544037-czech-republic-wins-fed-cup.jpg

I don't like the way some people have used Petra's success purely as a way of bashing Wozniacki. It's disrespectful to both. But to suggest that Kvitova is envious of Wozniacki because she hasn't taken over at the top of the rankings yet is preposterous. :rolleyes:

I know, but if poeple want mudslinging, then they will get it. And seen as a matter of probability
I am pretty sure i am right. Envy has nothing to do with the actual prestige or money either of
there respective achievement. Coming close is much more likely to release such feelings

When it comes down to business no one here are able to say anything about any of the to girls feelings. So way should i not make the opposite assumption of the threat title when logic states
that the other way has the better rationale.

Your league talk you can take elsewhere.To state that Kvitova don't care about being #1 be course it is only a entry list. That is preposterous if anything.

dsanders06
Nov 10th, 2011, 04:47 PM
Oh my. I'm gleefully saving this one!

You'd've thought the Woztards would've learnt by now to stop making predictions about Kvitova :haha:

Aramitz_II
Nov 10th, 2011, 04:50 PM
Oh my. I'm gleefully saving this one!

Why, it is not a prediction. Anyway bee my guest :)

Aramitz_II
Nov 10th, 2011, 05:00 PM
Yes, I'm sure Kvitova is daily going onto the WTA website and looking over Wozniacki's results this year and going green with envy. It's just a good job she's got the warmth of her Wimbledon and YEC trophies to snuggle up with at night to stop her doing something REALLY stupid :awww:

My thoughts where more going in another direction. Imaging Her going over Her own result looking
for instance at Her Tokio Result and calculating, that a semifinal win could have made the cut.

Johnbert
Nov 10th, 2011, 05:03 PM
and this
http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2011/11/07/1226187/544037-czech-republic-wins-fed-cup.jpg

fedcup doesn't count if you compare single players. cause tell me how should wozniacki or azarenka win the fedcup without good teammates...

dsanders06
Nov 10th, 2011, 05:04 PM
My thoughts where more going in another direction. Imaging Her going over Her own result looking
for instance at Her Tokio Result and calculating, that a semifinal win could have made the cut.

You're yet to answer why exactly she would CARE about "making the cut" for something vastly inferior to her Wimbledont trophy :shrug:

Aramitz_II
Nov 10th, 2011, 05:27 PM
You're yet to answer why exactly she would CARE about "making the cut" for something vastly inferior to her Wimbledont trophy :shrug:

What about you start counting the number of open era #1 ending and compare it with the numbers of
slam winners.



Every Year there is 4 Slam winners but there is only 1 year ending number One.

Matt01
Nov 10th, 2011, 05:29 PM
From now on until the next five years or so, Kvitova will accomplish GOAT-hood and will continue to deny Caro and Pretenderenka their maiden slams. :oh:


:awww:

Steven.
Nov 10th, 2011, 05:31 PM
fedcup doesn't count if you compare single players. cause tell me how should wozniacki or azarenka win the fedcup without good teammates...

Kvitova went 2-0 in her fed cup singles final rubbersand only needed one other victory for her team to win. Safarova was nothing but a hindrance to them for the Fed Cup title this year. If she went 1-1 or 0-2 thne you might've had a point :wavey:

$uricate
Nov 10th, 2011, 05:41 PM
I love all the wig-snatching malarky on this forum.

Please let it never stop :drool:

Johnbert
Nov 10th, 2011, 05:41 PM
Kvitova went 2-0 in her fed cup singles final rubbersand only needed one other victory for her team to win. Safarova was nothing but a hindrance to them for the Fed Cup title this year. If she went 1-1 or 0-2 thne you might've had a point :wavey:

you can be good as you want, but you can't win the fed cup alone, you need at least one competetiv teammate or a good double-team, cause you aren't allowed to play 3 single matches... :wavey: or do you wanna tell me, that kvitova would've also won the fed cup with team denmark or belarus? :confused:

Steven.
Nov 10th, 2011, 05:53 PM
you can be good as you want, but you can't win the fed cup alone, you need at least one competetiv teammate or a good double-team, cause you aren't allowed to play 3 single matches... :wavey: or do you wanna tell me, that kvitova would've also won the fed cup with team denmark or belarus? :confused:

She carried the team, and not just in the final either. What more could you want?

bandabou
Nov 10th, 2011, 05:58 PM
:lol: I guess if Switzerland had won DC during Roger's prime, Caro-tards would still be saying that Roger didn't carry the team. :lol:

Matt01
Nov 10th, 2011, 06:02 PM
:lol: I guess if Switzerland had won DC during Roger's prime, Caro-tards would still be saying that Roger didn't carry the team. :lol:


Who said that Kvitova didn't carry the team? Johnbert it certainly wasn't, and neither was I :shrug:

Johnbert
Nov 10th, 2011, 06:07 PM
:lol: I guess if Switzerland had won DC during Roger's prime, Caro-tards would still be saying that Roger didn't carry the team. :lol:

there's a difference between carrying the team and win the whole thing alone. sure she carried her team with 2 wins in the final, but she also has competetive teammates with safarova (wta #25), hradecka (wta #51) and peschke (wta doubles #2). now compare this to denmark or belarus as example... denmark still wouldn't win the fedcup if woz would win all her matches...

Excelscior
Nov 10th, 2011, 06:12 PM
you can be good as you want, but you can't win the fed cup alone, you need at least one competetiv teammate or a good double-team, cause you aren't allowed to play 3 single matches... :wavey: or do you wanna tell me, that kvitova would've also won the fed cup with team denmark or belarus? :confused:

If they had a good doubles team, yeah? Cause Lucie, was Useless!

Remember Czech Republic won 3-2 (with Petra winning two matches).

Safarova lost both of hers.

Kvitova was 6-0 during Fed Cup this year, and won their semi-finals by the same 3-2 score (with Kvitova winning both matches, and Safarova losing).

Yes! It would be fair to say, she carried the team, and had a lot of pressure on her shoulders every time she played.

They weren't a loaded team, like the Russians, who had legitimate, multiple top 10, top 20, interchangeable players. Safarova, played like a top 75 player in Davis Cup.

Lastly (for ultimate evidence), The Russian Coach said "Kvitova won them the Davis Cup, and Was phenomenal". That's what he said. So much so, the Czech coach, had to say "it was a team effort", as you would say, just so Petra's other team mates would feel included.

Johnbert
Nov 10th, 2011, 06:14 PM
If they had a good doubles team, yeah? Cause Lucie, was Useless!


well, you see the problem?! "IF they had"... but they haven't.

Excelscior
Nov 10th, 2011, 06:19 PM
well, you see the problem?! "IF they had"... but they haven't.

Who Denmark and Belarus?

The Czech Republic created that team. The doubles winners weren't a successful team before (though both were good separate doubles players, just like Vika is a high rated doubles player, for example).

dsanders06
Nov 10th, 2011, 06:21 PM
What about you start counting the number of open era #1 ending and compare it with the numbers of
slam winners.



Every Year there is 4 Slam winners but there is only 1 year ending number One.

OK... so less people have had sex with me than have had sex with Brad Pitt (probably). Going by your logic that something is a bigger achievement if less people have done it, does that mean it's a bigger achievement to sleep with me? :scratch:



(I'm pretty sure I've used this analogy on this forum before, but I don't care :lol: )

Jane Lane
Nov 10th, 2011, 06:36 PM
Lastly (for ultimate evidence), The Russian Coach said "Kvitova won them the Davis Cup, and Was phenomenal". That's what he said. So much so, the Czech coach, had to say "it was a team effort", as you would say, just so Petra's other team mates would feel included.

Tarpy has spoken. Tarpy is god. :worship:

You can all stop now.

Excelscior
Nov 10th, 2011, 06:40 PM
@Dentine

I know I said "Davis Cup".

You can see my prior ATP/Male bias.

Lol

bobito
Nov 10th, 2011, 06:49 PM
well, you see the problem?! "IF they had"... but they haven't.

What ifs don't sit well in trophy cabinets.

Any player who has gone 6-0 on the year and whose team has won QF, SF and Final all by a 3-2 margin has the right to polish her replica Fed Cup with a certain amount of personal pride.

spencercarlos
Nov 10th, 2011, 06:53 PM
fedcup doesn't count if you compare single players. cause tell me how should wozniacki or azarenka win the fedcup without good teammates...
That is pretty much the way i feel too. Itīs a team competition event, vs singles.. sorry but not the same events.

Aramitz_II
Nov 10th, 2011, 09:03 PM
OK... so less people have had sex with me than have had sex with Brad Pitt (probably). Going by your logic that something is a bigger achievement if less people have done it, does that mean it's a bigger achievement to sleep with me? :scratch:



(I'm pretty sure I've used this analogy on this forum before, but I don't care :lol: )

Yes it would be, if the same number of people would like to sleep with you as with Brad Pitt.
And i actually don't think that is the case, but who knows maybe you are the Rudolph Valentino
of the GM :kiss:.

bandabou
Nov 10th, 2011, 09:14 PM
there's a difference between carrying the team and win the whole thing alone. sure she carried her team with 2 wins in the final, but she also has competetive teammates with safarova (wta #25), hradecka (wta #51) and peschke (wta doubles #2). now compare this to denmark or belarus as example... denmark still wouldn't win the fedcup if woz would win all her matches...

What, you wanted her to play and win the doubles rubber too?! :lol:

Petra certainly puts Czech republic in a better position to win...when she is on, there are only a few players who can even HANG with Petra. Caroline..if when she's playing well, can lose to any random player who can keep their ufe-count in check, no?! :shrug:

BikezAreForever!
Nov 10th, 2011, 09:15 PM
I love all the wig-snatching malarky on this forum.

Please let it never stop :drool:

Funny thread!! I am just waiting someone posting a photo of green Woz.

terjw
Nov 10th, 2011, 09:30 PM
Anyone thinking Caro is green with envy about anything. Or that any current player is green with envy hasn't the faintest clue. In fact for posters to think this way - I assume they are very sad nobodies who think like that in their sad lives. I don't know anyone who seriously competes in anything who thinks in such a negative way like that.

GOATdin0931
Nov 10th, 2011, 09:52 PM
No. :oh:

rafaelkafka
Nov 10th, 2011, 10:42 PM
This Karolina hating obsession is really getting out of control! I guess, she is kinda concerned and disappointed but hardly is she in such a drama queen mood as its portrayed around here :lol: And the fact that Schiavone won a fucking Slam at 30 is proof enough that everything is possible :bounce:

Caro don't give a damn about this. She is sweet, she is loved, she is rich and young! She knows that courts will get slower every year and she knows that both atp and wta hate powerful players so she is very relaxed. She is not an UE machine and that's enough to be the #1 in WTA.

Roookie
Nov 10th, 2011, 10:46 PM
Funny thread!! I am just waiting someone posting a photo of green Woz.

LOL I just notice your avatar :haha:

dsanders06
Nov 10th, 2011, 10:49 PM
Yes it would be, if the same number of people would like to sleep with you as with Brad Pitt.
And i actually don't think that is the case, but who knows maybe you are the Rudolph Valentino
of the GM :kiss:.

But before, you said being #1 was better than winning a Slam simply because less people had done the former... now you're shifting the goalposts and saying it's how many people that want to do something which counts.

If it IS about how many people want to do something, then we come back full circle back to the fact more people would rather win a Slam than be #1 :wavey:

Burisleif
Nov 11th, 2011, 12:35 AM
...then we come back full circle back to the fact more people would rather win a Slam than be #1 :wavey:

Source please.

Novichok
Nov 11th, 2011, 12:40 AM
The source is dsander06's infinite wisdom. :rolleyes:

Aramitz_II
Nov 11th, 2011, 12:41 AM
But before, you said being #1 was better than winning a Slam simply because less people had done the former... now you're shifting the goalposts and saying it's how many people that want to do something which counts.

If it IS about how many people want to do something, then we come back full circle back to the fact more people would rather win a Slam than be #1 :wavey:

Grow up man, go learn just little bit of logic before you are making a total ass of your self.
All tennis player want both to get the highest ranking and to win slams. The Highest Ranking
are by far the most difficult, but the slam are a more direct result, easier to relate to.

ExtremespeedX
Nov 11th, 2011, 12:47 AM
This Karolina hating obsession is really getting out of control! I guess, she is kinda concerned and disappointed but hardly is she in such a drama queen mood as its portrayed around here :lol: And the fact that Schiavone won a fucking Slam at 30 is proof enough that everything is possible :bounce:

Carotards often find themselves in a logic trap:

Argument 1: It doesn't matter that Woz hasn't won a slam because these days even old mugs like Schiavone, Li and Stosur can win one.

Rebuttal 1: If those supposedly poor players can win a slam, why can't young Wozniacki who is in her prime?

Argument 2: Caro can win a slam, she was just unlucky to meet "in form" players in her draws.

Rebuttal 2: Even lower ranked players bring their best to slams. Not necessarily because they think they have a chance to win, but simply because of prize money and ranking points. The fact that Wozniacki lost to likes of Hantuchova and Cibulkova means she simply is not able to raise her level like even much worse players are able to.

Novichok
Nov 11th, 2011, 12:55 AM
Carotards often find themselves in a logic trap:

Argument 1: It doesn't matter that Woz hasn't won a slam because these days even old mugs like Schiavone, Li and Stosur can win one.

Rebuttal 1: If those supposedly poor players can win a slam, why can't young Wozniacki who is in her prime?

Argument 2: Caro can win a slam, she was just unlucky to meet "in form" players in her draws.

Rebuttal 2: Even lower ranked players bring their best to slams. Not necessarily because they think they have a chance to win, but simply because of prize money and ranking points. The fact that Wozniacki lost to likes of Hantuchova and Cibulkova means she simply is not able to raise her level like even much worse players are able to.

A logic trap? :lol:

The fact that Wozniacki lost to the likes of Hantuchova and Cibulkova means that she wasn't at the level to beat them on that particular day. It does not imply that she can't raise her level.

ExtremespeedX
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:02 AM
A logic trap? :lol:

The fact that Wozniacki lost to the likes of Hantuchova and Cibulkova means that she wasn't at the level to beat them on that particular day. It does not imply that she can't raise her level.

Actually, you're incorrect. The fact that she lost to these supposedly inferior players raising their level, means she wasn't good enough and talented enough to raise her own game and weather the storm. She is a good, consistent player. But at the end of the day, every match is on the other player's racquet. If any top 100 aggressive player can play well, Wozniacki is doomed. The classic example is AO 2011 semi - where an aggressive player took her chances and played to win. Unlike Wozniacki who played not to lose. Wimbledon was the same story: as soon as Domi minimized her errors, Wozniacki was helpless. Forcing errors and winning by attrition will not win you slams, sadly.

Burisleif
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:07 AM
Carotards often find themselves in a logic trap:

Argument 1: It doesn't matter that Woz hasn't won a slam because these days even old mugs like Schiavone, Li and Stosur can win one.

Rebuttal 1: If those supposedly poor players can win a slam, why can't young Wozniacki who is in her prime?

Argument 2: Caro can win a slam, she was just unlucky to meet "in form" players in her draws.

Rebuttal 2: Even lower ranked players bring their best to slams. Not necessarily because they think they have a chance to win, but simply because of prize money and ranking points. The fact that Wozniacki lost to likes of Hantuchova and Cibulkova means she simply is not able to raise her level like even much worse players are able to.

Yep Caroline is green with envy because she would rather have lost to players like Sophie Ferguson and Alexandra Dulgheru at the slams, just like the almighty, all conquering, best player of all time, and super human Petra Kvitova... :yawn:

I think it's a pretty disrespectful attitude the PeTrollwagon mob are taking towards players in general.

Aramitz_II
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:09 AM
Carotards often find themselves in a logic trap:

Argument 1: It doesn't matter that Woz hasn't won a slam because these days even old mugs like Schiavone, Li and Stosur can win one.

Rebuttal 1: If those supposedly poor players can win a slam, why can't young Wozniacki who is in her prime?

Argument 2: Caro can win a slam, she was just unlucky to meet "in form" players in her draws.

Rebuttal 2: Even lower ranked players bring their best to slams. Not necessarily because they think they have a chance to win, but simply because of prize money and ranking points. The fact that Wozniacki lost to likes of Hantuchova and Cibulkova means she simply is not able to raise her level like even much worse players are able to.

You are really making your own interpretation of the arguments, Actually it seem as you dont understand them as all.

First IMHO it do matter's. Everyone want to win a slam (Every one also want to be number one, but that is not discussed so much ;))

Any The reference to Li and Sciavone, Has nothing to do with the quality of the play, it is only a matter of time. Stosur are a little younger, but still older that Caro. And the are all tree Very fine Player. It may take longer than 21 years to make a big player. It some times since we havehad a
Teenager bride.


I have never heart number 2 Argument, and i think it is obvious silly. Don't you think that is a homemade for the purpose. The thing is: she has not yet learn how to deal with player who goes all in. That is her weakness that has nothing to do with lack of luck . But nothing says that it is impossible to learn that.

ExtremespeedX
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:11 AM
Yep Caroline is green with envy because she would rather have lost to players like Sophie Ferguson and Alexandra Dulgheru at the slams, just like the almighty, all conquering, best player of all time, and super human Petra Kvitova... :yawn:

I think it's a pretty disrespectful attitude the PeTrollwagon mob are taking towards players in general.

Petra won a slam already and went 5-0 in YEC, thrashing certain #1 :wavey:

If Dullniacki could have had her year, she'd take it, even if she had to lose #1 spot. :bigwave:

Petra already proved she can win a slam by playing sublime attacking tennis, not hitting 3 winners per match.

Burisleif
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:12 AM
Actually, you're incorrect. The fact that she lost to these supposedly inferior players raising their level, means she wasn't good enough and talented enough to raise her own game and weather the storm.

Buy you're own logic trap Petra isn't good enough...

ipso facto not enviable.

Thread closed.

Great logic... :lol:

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:17 AM
Source please.

Virtually every player in recent times who has achieved both Slams and the #1 spot (thus are by far the most qualified to evaluate) have said they prefer the Slams (Sharapova, Henin, the Williamses, Clijsters).

Grow up man, go learn just little bit of logic before you are making a total ass of your self.
All tennis player want both to get the highest ranking and to win slams. The Highest Ranking
are by far the most difficult, but the slam are a more direct result, easier to relate to.

And your argument for it being the most "difficult" to achieve is once again simply that less people have been #1 than have won Slams - which, once again, the example of less people wanting to sleep with me than Brad Pitt shows just how poor the "less people = better achievement" argument is :lol:

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:18 AM
Buy you're own logic trap Petra isn't good enough...

ipso facto not enviable.

Thread closed.

Great logic... :lol:

Except she is. She won a Slam :wavey:

OZTENNIS
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:19 AM
Caro is crap.

That is all.

Burisleif
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:24 AM
Except she is. She won a Slam :wavey:

Good for her, and yet irrelevant to the point as usual.

Burisleif
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:27 AM
...then we come back full circle back to the fact more people would rather win a Slam than be #1 :wavey:

Source Please.

ExtremespeedX
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:28 AM
Buy you're own logic trap Petra isn't good enough...

ipso facto not enviable.

Thread closed.

Great logic... :lol:

How so? She's a Wimbledon champion who beat a former multi slam winner and former Wimbledon champ in finals. Why couldn't Wozniacki do the same during her USO 2009 run? Is she only good enough to beat the likes of Oudin and Wickmayer?

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:28 AM
Source Please.

:facepalm: Reread this page.

OZTENNIS
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:30 AM
Source Please.

Serena Williams, Venus Williams, Roger Federer, Pete Sampras.

/thread

Novichok
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:33 AM
4 people out of 7 billion? :lol:

Novichok
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:35 AM
How so? She's a Wimbledon champion who beat a former multi slam winner and former Wimbledon champ in finals. Why couldn't Wozniacki do the same during her USO 2009 run? Is she only good enough to beat the likes of Oudin and Wickmayer?

Because Petra has lost in a match before. 1st round in the last slam that she played. That doesn't imply that Petra can't raise her game just like your argument doesn't imply that Caroline can't raise her game.

Burisleif
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:36 AM
How so? She's a Wimbledon champion who beat a former multi slam winner and former Wimbledon champ in finals. Why couldn't Wozniacki do the same?

Irrelevant... you constructed a logical argument as an insult, and clearly your logic is completely flawed.

Moral is stick to your usual heinous insults, because the second you try and construct any form of valid argument you falter. The fact your trying to do so in a thread quite as juvenile as this just makes it funnier, dumber, or sadder, no sure which.

Have fun on the PeTrollwagon.

Jane Lane
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:38 AM
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lubi1eT64j1qkl0zxo1_500.jpg
Your argument is irrelevant.





This thread's a mess.

OZTENNIS
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:42 AM
4 people out of 7 billion? :lol:

Are you insane?

If you give those 7 billion people the name of Caroline Wozniacki and say what is her profession, they'd be more likely to say porn star than tennis player.

Not many people outside of tennis circles even know who she is.

Anyway,

4 of 45 players to rank No.1, be considered all time greats and hold 50 grand slams between them. Their opinions count for more than most

ExtremespeedX
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:42 AM
Because Petra has lost in a match before. 1st round in the last slam that she played. That doesn't imply that Petra can't raise her game just like your argument doesn't imply that Caroline can't raise her game.

Petra was experiencing typical slump that comes after winning her first GS. Losing in R1 was obviously a big disappointment, but you're still not answering a question: Petra can obviously raise her level to win a slam. She went 5-0 at YEC, which proved she's no fluke. Wozniacki proved that she could not succeeed on the big stage. Why? Is it because her game is not good enough to win a slam? Because when an attacking player raises her game she's helpless?

Petra has nothing to prove, after all she's not even #1 :shrug:

Burisleif
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:43 AM
:facepalm: Reread this page.

This PeTrollwagon Hate thread is your factual source? Ok girl, what ever you say... :cuckoo:

Serena Williams, Venus Williams, Roger Federer, Pete Sampras.

That fits with 'most people'... yeah... I'm convinced now.

/thread

Was it ever open to start with?

Novichok
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:46 AM
Are you insane?

If you give those 7 billion people the name of Caroline Wozniacki and say what is her profession, they'd be more likely to say porn star than tennis player.

Not many people outside of tennis circles even know who she is.

Anyway,

4 of 45 players to rank No.1, be considered all time greats and hold 50 grand slams between them. Their opinions count for more than most

No, I'm not insane. dsanders06 didn't limit the people in question to just slam winners. 4/45 still isn't most. :lol:

OZTENNIS
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:48 AM
Burisleif


Put it this way.

Your precious Dane will never evolve to a Great Dane until she is able to win a Grand Slam.

Her name (and those of the likes of Jankovic, Ivanovic and Safina) being mentioned in the same sentence as Graf, Navratilova, Evert, Seles, Williams, Hingis, Henin and co is demeaning to the term 'World No.1'

Her being ranked at No.1 is further eroding the validity of being ranked No.1 and it is an embarrassment for the entire sport.

And to top it all off...she didn't even win Rome and Madrid :haha:

Burisleif
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:48 AM
Are you insane?

If you give those 7 billion people the name of Caroline Wozniacki and say what is her profession, they'd be more likely to say porn star than tennis player.


You didn't pull that fact out of your arse... oh no... :rolleyes:

ExtremespeedX
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:49 AM
Irrelevant... you constructed a logical argument as an insult, and clearly your logic is completely flawed.

Moral is stick to your usual heinous insults, because the second you try and construct any form of valid argument you falter. The fact your trying to do so in a thread quite as juvenile as this just makes it funnier, dumber, or sadder, no sure which.

Have fun on the PeTrollwagon.

Pathetic post :shrug:

Look past your blind nationalism and realize that the player you're fanboying is yet to prove herself on the big stage.

I don't need to bring up Petra's achievements, they speak for themselves. Wimbledon and YEC champion. 2 titles Wozniacki will never ever win. :shrug:

Novichok
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:51 AM
Burisleif


Put it this way.

Your precious Dane will never evolve to a Great Dane until she is able to win a Grand Slam.

Her name (and those of the likes of Jankovic, Ivanovic and Safina) being mentioned in the same sentence as Graf, Navratilova, Evert, Seles, Williams, Hingis, Henin and co is demeaning to the term 'World No.1'

Her being ranked at No.1 is further eroding the validity of being ranked No.1 and it is an embarrassment for the entire sport.

And to top it all off...she didn't even win Rome and Madrid :haha:

Let's hope Caroline doesn't evolve into a Great Dane. We already have to deal with incessant barking now.

Burisleif
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:56 AM
Pathetic post :shrug:

Look past your blind nationalism and realize that the player you're fanboying is yet to prove herself on the big stage.

I don't need to bring up Petra's achievements, they speak for themselves. Wimbledon and YEC champion. 2 titles Wozniacki will never ever win. :shrug:

This validates your logic argument because?

Like I said... stick to heinous insults...

That's the first time I have been called a fanboy of logic... I din't even realise Logic was a country... I guess you learn something new everyday.

Burisleif
Nov 11th, 2011, 01:58 AM
Let's hope Caroline doesn't evolve into a Great Dane. We already have to deal with incessant barking now.

:cat: :dog::dog: :lol:

ExtremespeedX
Nov 11th, 2011, 02:05 AM
This validates your logic argument because?

Like I said... stick to heinous insults...

That's the first time I have been called a fanboy of logic... I din't even realise Logic was a country... I guess you learn something new everyday.

Hilarious stuff. You pretend to be logical because you make pseudo intellectual posts worshipping a pusher from your own country and trying to pass them off as "logical" :lol:

Keep trying though, maybe Caro will win a slam one day, she just has to hit more than 5 winners per match in order to do so and has to get a USO 2009 draw, minus Kim.

And stop bringing Petra into every topic, ffs. She's leagues above Wozniacki.