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shap_half
Oct 10th, 2011, 05:33 AM
For all you history folks out there, what do you think is history's greatest capital city? Use whatever criteria you'd like, but defend your choice.

A lot of people have championed Rome.

VeeJJ
Oct 10th, 2011, 05:59 AM
Constantinople. It's too late for me to back it, maybe tomorrow.

Sam L
Oct 10th, 2011, 10:35 AM
I have many but my personal favourite would be Pataliputra, capital of successive dynasties of Indian rulers from Nandas, Mauryans, Sungas to Guptas. It's amazing that a city is successively chosen as a capital for almost a thousand years by different rulers. It attracted philosophers and intellectuals of the time. I love the name. It sounds epic. The first couple of Buddhist councils of held there.

Dani12
Oct 10th, 2011, 10:43 AM
I don't know if you'd call Athen's 'great' in the obvious meaning of the word, but it was definitely great as far as revolutionising society. It was democratic, fairly peaceful, stunning architecture...blood sports :p

fifiricci
Oct 10th, 2011, 11:01 AM
I don't know if you'd call Athen's 'great' in the obvious meaning of the word, but it was definitely great as far as revolutionising society. It was democratic, fairly peaceful, stunning architecture...blood sports :p

I agree :)

The Witch-king
Oct 10th, 2011, 02:45 PM
does it have to be a capital today?

Apoleb
Oct 10th, 2011, 03:04 PM
Athens' golden age stands as something unprecedented and mighty impressive intellectually , artistically and perhaps politically. It wasn't even that long (less than a century I think), but I can't think of anything else that stands so anachronistically from its surroundings and changed the world forever after. And yet so much was lost.

Direwolf
Oct 10th, 2011, 03:33 PM
Alexandria

pierce85
Oct 10th, 2011, 04:04 PM
I am biased of course but nothing can be compared with Athens during its glory days (only Rome maybe). This was the city where the foundations for all sciences were set ( philosophy , politics ,mathematics ,physics) and Democracy was invented. It was also artistically magnificent. To prove my point

"The period from the end of the Persian Wars to the Macedonian conquest marked the zenith of Athens as a center of literature, philosophy (Greek philosophy) and the arts (Greek theatre). In Athens at this time, the political satire of the Comic poets at the theatres had a remarkable influence on public opinion.[15] Some of the most important figures of Western cultural and intellectual history lived in Athens during this period: the dramatists Aeschylus, Aristophanes, Euripides and Sophocles, the philosophers Aristotle, Plato and Socrates, the historians Herodotus, Thucydides and Xenophon, the poet Simonides and the sculptor Phidias, The leading statesman of this period was Pericles, who used the tribute paid by the members of the Delian League to build the Parthenon and other great monuments of classical Athens. The city became, in Pericles's words, "the school of Hellas [Greece]

MegaDethly
Oct 10th, 2011, 07:55 PM
London.

Salve
Oct 10th, 2011, 08:31 PM
Rome

antonella
Oct 10th, 2011, 08:34 PM
I am biased of course but nothing can be compared with Athens during its glory days (only Rome maybe). This was the city where the foundations for all sciences were set ( philosophy , politics ,mathematics ,physics) and Democracy was invented. It was also artistically magnificent. To prove my point

"The period from the end of the Persian Wars to the Macedonian conquest marked the zenith of Athens as a center of literature, philosophy (Greek philosophy) and the arts (Greek theatre). In Athens at this time, the political satire of the Comic poets at the theatres had a remarkable influence on public opinion.[15] Some of the most important figures of Western cultural and intellectual history lived in Athens during this period: the dramatists Aeschylus, Aristophanes, Euripides and Sophocles, the philosophers Aristotle, Plato and Socrates, the historians Herodotus, Thucydides and Xenophon, the poet Simonides and the sculptor Phidias, The leading statesman of this period was Pericles, who used the tribute paid by the members of the Delian League to build the Parthenon and other great monuments of classical Athens. The city became, in Pericles's words, "the school of Hellas [Greece]

This much overrated Athens always gets whitewashed by history. Athens was deeply hated by most of the other Hellenic city-states, Sparta in particular, who were forced to keep Athenian ambitious schemes under control. In reality, the much ballyhooed 'democratic' Athens(95% of it's population were slaves, BTW) was an imperialist warmongering capital of an empire of exploited/servile states that were bleed-white in order to finance it's foolish wars. History shows democratic states are always the most warlike. Thucydides pointed out that Athens was a democracy in-name-only and was in reality a monarchy with Pericles as it's 'king'. Even their great philosophers Sokrates and Plato were secret admirers of Sparta, and saw Athenian democracy as a disaster-in-the-making. I'm glad Sparta put Athens out of business, as their fecklessness and provocations would have invariably triggered another Persian invasion, which might have succeeded this time, thus stranging The West at it's inception.

And at the time, the Persian Empire was much more wealthy than the Greeks who were poor and regarded as part of the ancient Third World (the Persians called them: 'The disheveled ones'). And venerable Egypt was still seen as the repositoty of spiritual/religious traditions and as the cultural leader of the known World.

M.S.F
Oct 10th, 2011, 08:39 PM
Baghdad before the Mongol Invasion?

shap_half
Oct 10th, 2011, 09:15 PM
This much overrated Athens always gets whitewashed by history. Athens was deeply hated by most of the other Hellenic city-states, Sparta in particular, who were forced to keep Athenian ambitious schemes under control. In reality, the much ballyhooed 'democratic' Athens(95% of it's population were slaves, BTW) was an imperialist warmongering capital of an empire of exploited/servile states that were bleed-white in order to finance it's foolish wars. History shows democratic states are always the most warlike. Thucydides pointed out that Athens was a democracy in-name-only and was in reality a monarchy with Pericles as it's 'king'. Even their great philosophers Sokrates and Plato were secret admirers of Sparta, and saw Athenian democracy as a disaster-in-the-making. I'm glad Sparta put Athens out of business, as their fecklessness and provocations would have invariably triggered another Persian invasion, which might have succeeded this time, thus stranging The West at it's inception.

And at the time, the Persian Empire was much more wealthy than the Greeks who were poor and regarded as part of the ancient Third World (the Persians called them: 'The disheveled ones'). And venerable Egypt was still seen as the repositoty of spiritual/religious traditions and as the cultural leader of the known World.

Fabulous. I did not know all of this.

pierce85
Oct 10th, 2011, 09:20 PM
This much overrated Athens always gets whitewashed by history. Athens was deeply hated by most of the other Hellenic city-states, Sparta in particular, who were forced to keep Athenian ambitious schemes under control. In reality, the much ballyhooed 'democratic' Athens(95% of it's population were slaves, BTW) was an imperialist warmongering capital of an empire of exploited/servile states that were bleed-white in order to finance it's foolish wars. History shows democratic states are always the most warlike. Thucydides pointed out that Athens was a democracy in-name-only and was in reality a monarchy with Pericles as it's 'king'. Even their great philosophers Sokrates and Plato were secret admirers of Sparta, and saw Athenian democracy as a disaster-in-the-making. I'm glad Sparta put Athens out of business, as their fecklessness and provocations would have invariably triggered another Persian invasion, which might have succeeded this time, thus stranging The West at it's inception.

And at the time, the Persian Empire was much more wealthy than the Greeks who were poor and regarded as part of the ancient Third World (the Persians called them: 'The disheveled ones'). And venerable Egypt was still seen as the repositoty of spiritual/religious traditions and as the cultural leader of the known World.

All I see written is bla bla bla Athens was hated... So? Every great empire/country was hated by its neighbouring countries . Still I haven't seen anywhere in your hateful post an argument contradicting me about why Athens wasn't the greatest capital in history. You keep talking about how the Persians were much wealthier , so? Athens was the greatest city , not because of its wealth, but because during its golden period the foundations for all sciences were set there (Politics,philosophy,physics you name it).

Also Greek theater and architecture of that era is of incomparable beauty. Apart from the Acropolis, you should know that 5 of the 7 wonders of the ancient world were in Greece or built during the hellenistic era.

It's obvious , though how little you know about history, accusing Athens about the imperialistic policy and praising Sparta that took them out of business, when you obviously are ignorant that Sparta's allies Thebes and Corinth soon turned against her due to her imperialistic policy and joined Athens to form the Second Athenian League. So, next time you better think before writing nonsense

pierce85
Oct 10th, 2011, 09:39 PM
Fabulous. I did not know all of this.

Please, don't pay attention to what he writes, it's the biggest pile of nonsense I've ever read. He dares to write that Athenian provocations would have triggered another Persian invasion , whereas if the Athenians and greek city-states hadn't stopped Persian invasion during the Greco-Persian wars , Persians would have probably conquered all Western Europe

Read this extract from Wikipedia (and not my opinion) to see why the battle of Salamis and Thermopylae is considered by historians the most significant battle ever:

"Like the Battles of Marathon and Thermopylae, Salamis has gained something of a 'legendary' status (unlike, for instance, the more decisive Battle of Plataea), perhaps because of the desperate circumstances and the unlikely odds.[4] A significant number of historians have stated that Salamis is one of the most significant battles in human history (though the same is often stated of Marathon).[2][85][98][100] In a more extreme form of this argument, some historians argue that if the Greeks had lost at Salamis, the ensuing conquest of Greece by the Persians would have effectively stilted the growth of 'western civilization' as we know it.[132]

You can now see that the Greek states under the Athenian command stopped the Persian invasion and their spread to Western Europe and they didn't provoke it, he's just making things out of his mind

Andiyan
Oct 10th, 2011, 10:09 PM
It's gotta be a city in the 'old world'. So maybe Jerusalem or Baghdad/Babylon, but I'd guess Istanbul/Constantinople/Byzantium. So many things happened there, the border between Europe and Asia, clash of cultures.

shap_half
Oct 10th, 2011, 10:24 PM
Please, don't pay attention to what he writes, it's the biggest pile of nonsense I've ever read. He dares to write that Athenian provocations would have triggered another Persian invasion , whereas if the Athenians and greek city-states hadn't stopped Persian invasion during the Greco-Persian wars , Persians would have probably conquered all Western Europe

Read this extract from Wikipedia (and not my opinion) to see why the battle of Salamis and Thermopylae is considered by historians the most significant battle ever:

"Like the Battles of Marathon and Thermopylae, Salamis has gained something of a 'legendary' status (unlike, for instance, the more decisive Battle of Plataea), perhaps because of the desperate circumstances and the unlikely odds.[4] A significant number of historians have stated that Salamis is one of the most significant battles in human history (though the same is often stated of Marathon).[2][85][98][100] In a more extreme form of this argument, some historians argue that if the Greeks had lost at Salamis, the ensuing conquest of Greece by the Persians would have effectively stilted the growth of 'western civilization' as we know it.[132]

You can now see that the Greek states under the Athenian command stopped the Persian invasion and their spread to Western Europe and they didn't provoke it, he's just making things out of his mind

Oh, no worries. I'm enjoying everything you both are saying. I didn't really know much about this, but it's great to hear about it from people who seem to be passionate about both sides. The contemporary opinion of Athens is currently very low (in fact, I don't think I know many people who've gone to visit who enjoyed it), but it's always wonderful to be reminded that it was once the center of intellectual development.

miffedmax
Oct 10th, 2011, 11:06 PM
Moscow, clearly.

http://nashkarnaval.ru/elena_dementieva/03.jpg

Vartan
Oct 11th, 2011, 12:04 AM
Rome

GeorgianFan
Oct 11th, 2011, 12:16 AM
1.Jerusalem.... 2.Rome... 3. Babylon.. 4. Athens.. 5. Alexandria


and Atlantis :lol: :hearts:

delicatecutter
Oct 11th, 2011, 01:55 AM
Washington, DC of course.

~{X}~
Oct 11th, 2011, 03:20 AM
Rome

Apoleb
Oct 11th, 2011, 05:07 AM
This much overrated Athens always gets whitewashed by history. Athens was deeply hated by most of the other Hellenic city-states, Sparta in particular, who were forced to keep Athenian ambitious schemes under control. In reality, the much ballyhooed 'democratic' Athens(95% of it's population were slaves, BTW) was an imperialist warmongering capital of an empire of exploited/servile states that were bleed-white in order to finance it's foolish wars. History shows democratic states are always the most warlike. Thucydides pointed out that Athens was a democracy in-name-only and was in reality a monarchy with Pericles as it's 'king'. Even their great philosophers Sokrates and Plato were secret admirers of Sparta, and saw Athenian democracy as a disaster-in-the-making. I'm glad Sparta put Athens out of business, as their fecklessness and provocations would have invariably triggered another Persian invasion, which might have succeeded this time, thus stranging The West at it's inception.

And at the time, the Persian Empire was much more wealthy than the Greeks who were poor and regarded as part of the ancient Third World (the Persians called them: 'The disheveled ones'). And venerable Egypt was still seen as the repositoty of spiritual/religious traditions and as the cultural leader of the known World.

Well you need to make up your mind if it's a democracy or not. You can't act that it was a democracy in name only then argue for the inefficiency of democracies.

Athens was the greatest city , not because of its wealth, but because during its golden period the foundations for all sciences were set there (Politics,philosophy,physics you name it).

Athenian philosophers like Aristotle and Epicurus laid the theoretical foundations of science but I wouldn't say they invented science. It ain't science unless you design experiments to test your ideas. Aristotle and the much underrated Epicurus were the first to theoretically promote the scientific method, but I would argue that the fact that they didn't put it into practice is the reason why Athens' technological advancement did not mirror its immense intellectual and cultural advantage. Had Athens not been destroyed by Sparta, who knows, maybe we would have had a scientific and a technological revolution in the 4th century BC.

I will say though that what happened in Greece and Athens in particular at the time is nothing short of a miracle. The Athenians mastered the art of ideas, and it's jaw dropping what they did in philosophy. Basically, almost all of the post-16th century philosophy nothing but rehashing debates already discussed ad nauseum in Ancient Greece. Empiricism vs Rationalism, Determinism vs Indeterminism, Skepticism vs Realism... you name it. Much of the credit for European philosophers really needs to go to the Greeks.

Rome, I guess, is like the Beyonce of the ancient world. They had a good eye for what was good, and subsequently stole all their culture from the Greeks. I give them credit for appreciating what was deserved, but I hate for destroying all the authentic bronze statues and replacing them with their lame marble copies.

shap_half
Oct 11th, 2011, 05:30 AM
Rome, I guess, is like the Beyonce of the ancient world. They had a good eye for what was good, and subsequently stole all their culture from the Greeks. I give them credit for appreciating what was deserved, but I hate for destroying all the authentic bronze statues and replacing them with their lame marble copies.

I'm quoting this on Facebook. Cool?

Sam L
Oct 11th, 2011, 08:00 AM
In addition to Pataliputra, I have Florence as another candidate for the greatest capital city. Capital of Republic of Florence, Duchy of Florence and finally the Duchy of Tuscany. It has a tremendous and truly artistic (music, dance and literature) legacy from the middle ages and early modern period.

Can't decide between the two. Pataliputra for being a centre of Buddhist/Jain philosophy and Florence for artistic/scientific legacy.

Sam L
Oct 11th, 2011, 08:02 AM
Moscow, clearly.


The Third Rome. :angel:

Sam L
Oct 11th, 2011, 08:07 AM
This


Rome, I guess, is like the Beyonce of the ancient world. They had a good eye for what was good, and subsequently stole all their culture from the Greeks. I give them credit for appreciating what was deserved, but I hate for destroying all the authentic bronze statues and replacing them with their lame marble copies.

I don't get Rome. At least Athens is pretty original and truly laid the foundations for the western world. To be honest, I hate a lot of things about Rome. I read a history book once that described Rome as having bound its territories by physical, psychological and organisational controls. I hate the Colosseum and what it stands for. Rome did have unique contributions like administration, military organisation and laws but like I care about any of that.

Apoleb
Oct 11th, 2011, 04:20 PM
I'm quoting this on Facebook. Cool?

Sure.

This

. Rome did have unique contributions like administration, military organisation and laws but like I care about any of that.

:lol: That's how I feel too. They had lots of innovations in all practical things but I couldn't care less. I'm much more inclined to the intellectual masturbation and the aesthetic sensibility of the Greeks.

shap_half
Oct 11th, 2011, 04:56 PM
It's hard for me to hate on Rome, because I love the Pantheon. It's probably my favorite building.

miffedmax
Oct 11th, 2011, 04:59 PM
I've always been a big fan of Rome. Blame it on Latin class, I guess. And the fact I'm also one of those clueless creative people who has a perverse and somewhat jealous admiration for people who are actually able to do things like make technology work.

Lena's bangs.

Fantasy Hero
Oct 11th, 2011, 07:25 PM
for occidental culture it is for sure one among Roma-Athens and Istanbul :) i don't know much about others cultures to express my idea about them

VeeJJ
Oct 12th, 2011, 12:13 AM
I just figured out why it's Constantinople. Cause the YEC is there.

Oneofakind0490
Oct 12th, 2011, 01:30 AM
I give them credit for appreciating what was deserved, but I hate for destroying all the authentic bronze statues and replacing them with their lame marble copies. Seriously, that pissed me off so much because the bronze statues are just out of this world beautiful.

Ashi
Oct 12th, 2011, 02:34 PM
I have many but my personal favourite would be Pataliputra, capital of successive dynasties of Indian rulers from Nandas, Mauryans, Sungas to Guptas. It's amazing that a city is successively chosen as a capital for almost a thousand years by different rulers. It attracted philosophers and intellectuals of the time. I love the name. It sounds epic. The first couple of Buddhist councils of held there.

That's modern day 'Patna' the capital of Uttar Pradesh. It straddles the rivers Ganga and Sone, which was one of the reasons for its importance over 800 years.

Today, it's the capital of lawlessness:sad:, but it does influence the politics of our country even today, being the capital of the most populous state.

India's most renowned Mathematician Aryabhatta, the inventor of the zero is believed to have hailed from this region.


My choice would be Persepolis. :hearts:

Sam L
Oct 14th, 2011, 11:55 AM
That's modern day 'Patna' the capital of Uttar Pradesh. It straddles the rivers Ganga and Sone, which was one of the reasons for its importance over 800 years.

Today, it's the capital of lawlessness:sad:, but it does influence the politics of our country even today, being the capital of the most populous state.

India's most renowned Mathematician Aryabhatta, the inventor of the zero is believed to have hailed from this region.


My choice would be Persepolis. :hearts:

Yes, I know. Why did they change the name? They should've kept it. Also, is it really still that bad?

Persepolis was definitely on my mind also. Capital of one of the greatest empires of all time - Achaemenid Persian Empire.

Ashi
Oct 14th, 2011, 01:49 PM
Yes, I know. Why did they change the name? They should've kept it. Also, is it really still that bad?



I'm not a history buff, this is what I found on Wiki.

Patna received its current name during the reign of Sher Shah Suri, whose tomb is at Sasaram, near Patna.

http://patna.bih.nic.in/District/dist_home.htm


It does have a major reputation for lawlessness. I remember a group of my friends were heading to the North East of the country by train, and they were stopping at Patna. They were advised to carry some knives or sharp objects in their hand luggage to defend themselves, in case they got mugged.

It could be said about many places though. :angel:

NoppaNoppa
Oct 14th, 2011, 04:06 PM
My vote goes to Rome e150. When ruling 20-30% of mankind.
Can anyone come close?

Sam L
Mar 20th, 2013, 11:41 AM
I'm not a history buff, this is what I found on Wiki.

Patna received its current name during the reign of Sher Shah Suri, whose tomb is at Sasaram, near Patna.

http://patna.bih.nic.in/District/dist_home.htm


It does have a major reputation for lawlessness. I remember a group of my friends were heading to the North East of the country by train, and they were stopping at Patna. They were advised to carry some knives or sharp objects in their hand luggage to defend themselves, in case they got mugged.

It could be said about many places though. :angel:

Thanks. I wish they would change it back to Pataliputra. Um, I haven't been there but I'll keep that in mind when I do go. ;)

My vote goes to Rome e150. When ruling 20-30% of mankind.
Can anyone come close?

Yes. :confused: This is the best source I can find. Achaemenid Persia had over 44% of world population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires

---

- Chang'an would be another candidate. Capital city of more than 10 Chinese dynasties including their most glorious: Tang and Han. :worship:

Sisyphus
Mar 20th, 2013, 11:50 AM
London, baby.

Start da Game
Mar 20th, 2013, 12:05 PM
sparta

pataliputra

roma

kwilliams
Mar 20th, 2013, 02:31 PM
Oh, no worries. I'm enjoying everything you both are saying. I didn't really know much about this, but it's great to hear about it from people who seem to be passionate about both sides. The contemporary opinion of Athens is currently very low (in fact, I don't think I know many people who've gone to visit who enjoyed it), but it's always wonderful to be reminded that it was once the center of intellectual development.

I'm biased because I studied Classics but my friends who came along with me last year loved it too! It may have its problems but that makes it no less replete with ruins and cultural/artistic treasures (although the National Museum had a couple of small galleries that were closed off due to cutbacks which I wasn't happy about - don't know why I didn't go to the Acropolis Museum)

Anyway, Rome is my favourite city in the world by some stretch but if we're talking in terms of greatness, Athens takes the biscuit. They may have been hated, they may have been robbing the Delian league blind, many may have lived lives of extreme excess but those are pretty much essential criteria for any "great" capital. With the flowering of the arts, academics comes profligacy, vice, the ills and horrors of colonialism and warfare, and an inevitable downfall of some sort.

5th Century BC Athens was surely one of the most innovative societies ever to have existed.

njnetswill
Mar 21st, 2013, 07:50 AM
Sukhothai or Ayutthaya

The Buddhist aesthetic and once golden cities make ancient Rome and Athens look grimy and crude in comparison.

PhilePhile
Mar 21st, 2013, 08:25 AM
My vote goes to Rome e150. When ruling 20-30% of mankind.
Can anyone come close?

Xi'an

pA_6wzezoZQ

Just Do It
Mar 21st, 2013, 09:01 AM
Athens, obviously. That is where it all started.

Londoner
Mar 21st, 2013, 09:02 AM
I'm biased because I studied Classics but my friends who came along with me last year loved it too! It may have its problems but that makes it no less replete with ruins and cultural/artistic treasures (although the National Museum had a couple of small galleries that were closed off due to cutbacks which I wasn't happy about - don't know why I didn't go to the Acropolis Museum)

Anyway, Rome is my favourite city in the world by some stretch but if we're talking in terms of greatness, Athens takes the biscuit. They may have been hated, they may have been robbing the Delian league blind, many may have lived lives of extreme excess but those are pretty much essential criteria for any "great" capital. With the flowering of the arts, academics comes profligacy, vice, the ills and horrors of colonialism and warfare, and an inevitable downfall of some sort.

5th Century BC Athens was surely one of the most innovative societies ever to have existed.

And that's why I think it's sad so many cities have been 'cleaned up' and are all becoming the same, apart from their architecture. New York is now just a tourist shopping haven, London gentrified and Soho turned into pastiche of itself, Berlin is a shodow of itself because of the regeneration, even Amsterdam is getting the make over and is going to be transformed. I just think cities should have personalities with dens of iniquity!

Ianto_Jones
Mar 21st, 2013, 09:14 AM
I'd say that the greatest capital is either Karakorum (13th Century Mongol Empire Capital), Cusco (Inca), Tenochtitlan (Aztec) or London (British.).

Sam L
Mar 21st, 2013, 10:58 AM
Sukhothai or Ayutthaya

The Buddhist aesthetic and once golden cities make ancient Rome and Athens look grimy and crude in comparison.

Don't forget Bagan in Burma:

http://www.letsgo-myanmar.com/photos/photos%20destinations/bagan.jpg

Unlike the other two, many temples and buildings still survive to this day.

pierce85
Mar 21st, 2013, 12:17 PM
Sukhothai or Ayutthaya

The Buddhist aesthetic and once golden cities make ancient Rome and Athens look grimy and crude in comparison.

Apart from the aesthetics and architecture, have they contributed anything when it comes to sciences, politics and art like Rome and Athens have?

Just asking because I'm not familiar with these two civilizations

PhilePhile
Mar 21st, 2013, 12:37 PM
Apart from the aesthetics and architecture, have they contributed anything when it comes to sciences, politics and art like Rome and Athens have?

Just asking because I'm not familiar with these two civilizations

Neither invented the 0 (zero) :p .

ZexVATbtwoM

pov
Mar 21st, 2013, 04:24 PM
I don't know that I have one "greatest" but I'll go with:

Memphis, Egypt

http://www.shunya.net/Pictures/Egypt/Memphis/PyramidsGiza7.jpg

The cultural and world-shaping impacts of the civilization there are still felt. A good portion of what is considered Roman and/or Greek was gleaned from Egypt

NoppaNoppa
Mar 21st, 2013, 05:15 PM
To Sam L. and all. Genghis Khans Mongols empire ruled about 70% of then known mankind. But not one city! Thread title reads city.

Rome wins. Period. :wavey:

shap_half
Mar 21st, 2013, 05:29 PM
So thrilled that this thread has been unearthed,

shap_half
Mar 21st, 2013, 05:32 PM
And that's why I think it's sad so many cities have been 'cleaned up' and are all becoming the same, apart from their architecture. New York is now just a tourist shopping haven, London gentrified and Soho turned into pastiche of itself, Berlin is a shodow of itself because of the regeneration, even Amsterdam is getting the make over and is going to be transformed. I just think cities should have personalities with dens of iniquity!

I've never been to London, but as someone who has been to both Berlin and Amsterdam quite a lot, I have to say that those two cities are changing in very different ways. Amsterdam doesn't want to be known as a place for hookers and drugs. I'm not really sure why the local government shouldn't want to clean that up. I don't think hookers and drugs really do anything to add to the city's cultural identity. Amsterdam has never been "gritty."

Berlin, though, I agree. I love that city, but I get annoyed everytime I go. Having said that, it still has a lot of truly interesting features.

pov
Mar 21st, 2013, 05:49 PM
So thrilled that this thread has been unearthed,
No pun intended, right? ;)

dybbuk
Mar 21st, 2013, 07:38 PM
To Sam L. and all. Genghis Khans Mongols empire ruled about 70% of then known mankind. But not one city! Thread title reads city.

Rome wins. Period. :wavey:

Hmm? I don't get it. The Mongols did have cities, and for a time Karakorum was their capital. It had a palace and temples and everything.

shap_half
Mar 21st, 2013, 07:43 PM
No pun intended, right? ;)

I don't get paid to write for nothin

Gagsquet
Mar 21st, 2013, 07:54 PM
Paris
Case closed

Londoner
Mar 21st, 2013, 08:50 PM
Paris
Case closed

Paris is my favourite as an actual 'personality'. Its centre hasn't been ruined by new buildings, retains an 'edge' and remains very special and unique with a real peronality.

Londoner
Mar 21st, 2013, 08:54 PM
I've never been to London, but as someone who has been to both Berlin and Amsterdam quite a lot, I have to say that those two cities are changing in very different ways. Amsterdam doesn't want to be known as a place for hookers and drugs. I'm not really sure why the local government shouldn't want to clean that up. I don't think hookers and drugs really do anything to add to the city's cultural identity. Amsterdam has never been "gritty."

Berlin, though, I agree. I love that city, but I get annoyed everytime I go. Having said that, it still has a lot of truly interesting features.

When the so called 'red light area' - which is after all on the tourist trail! - has been regenerated and the coffee shops barred to foreigners and/or closed down, the city is going to lose millions in tourism. Its shopping streets are like any other city's with the same stores, it doesn't have theatres and few cinemas. There is much to make a tourist go back more than once after it has become like everywhere else. I actually think cities should have a darker side to them. New York has lost a lot of its personality since the 90s.

Sam L
Mar 21st, 2013, 08:57 PM
Apart from the aesthetics and architecture, have they contributed anything when it comes to sciences, politics and art like Rome and Athens have?

Just asking because I'm not familiar with these two civilizations

Don't know about the other two but Bagan certainly had innovations in irrigation and architecture. It also lasted long enough to impact the rest of the area in language, religion and culture up to the modern day.

To Sam L. and all. Genghis Khans Mongols empire ruled about 70% of then known mankind. But not one city! Thread title reads city.

Rome wins. Period. :wavey:

Actually if you look at the Wiki source from above, it said only 25%. I don't know if you have a better source. Also, they did have cities.

So thrilled that this thread has been unearthed,

:hysteric:

shap_half
Mar 21st, 2013, 09:09 PM
When the so called 'red light area' - which is after all on the tourist trail! - has been regenerated and the coffee shops barred to foreigners and/or closed down, the city is going to lose millions in tourism. Its shopping streets are like any other city's with the same stores, it doesn't have theatres and few cinemas. There is much to make a tourist go back more than once after it has become like everywhere else. I actually think cities should have a darker side to them. New York has lost a lot of its personality since the 90s.

I don't know what your talking about. The 9 streets is among the most picturesque shopping neighborhoods you'll find anywhere in the world, and the shops there are generally independent boutiques. There was a story in the NYT a few years ago about how there are shops here that focus entirely one thing: cheese, toothbrush, etc. Some of the stores covered in that story are still there.

Getting high and having sex for money can hardly be called "darker" - especially when the government is wholly involved in it.

Sean.
Mar 21st, 2013, 11:39 PM
Persepolis

wild.river
Mar 21st, 2013, 11:41 PM
real- indraprastha
fictitious- rivendell

NoppaNoppa
Mar 21st, 2013, 11:59 PM
Actually if you look at the Wiki

... actually trusting wiki :tape:

Sam L
Mar 22nd, 2013, 12:18 AM
... actually trusting wiki :tape:

You are free to provide a source for your claim. Those wiki sources were sourced from somewhere else anyway.

Also, your argument that Rome as a city ruled over the greatest percentage of people in the world is rubbish when I already told you it was Persepolis as the capital of Achaemenid Persian Empire. http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records-9000/largest-empire-by-percentage-of-world-population/

pov
Mar 22nd, 2013, 12:35 AM
MG! So many threads on TF are devolved into bickering. People have different opinions on what is the "greatest" anything - yet some of you seem bothered when others have opinions that aren't the same as yours. :shrugs:

NoppaNoppa
Mar 22nd, 2013, 12:51 AM
Those wiki sources were sourced from somewhere else anyway

Glad you finally noticed :worship:

KournikovaFan91
Mar 22nd, 2013, 12:59 AM
Rome :bowdown:

fantic
Mar 22nd, 2013, 07:01 AM
When Cordoba had 300,000 inhabitants, Paris had about 80,000.

The Greatest of the old world would probably be the capitals of the Chinese Empires, population-wise..

I vote for Byzantium-Constantinople. The bridge of East and West!

fantic
Mar 22nd, 2013, 07:14 AM
I heard that the old cities (Mohenjodaro?) of the Indus Valley civilization were the center of commerce and never experienced violence..and that their sanitation was top notch. Definitely the place to live in the ancient world I guess :lol:

Sam L
Mar 22nd, 2013, 11:26 PM
I heard that the old cities (Mohenjodaro?) of the Indus Valley civilization were the center of commerce and never experienced violence..and that their sanitation was top notch. Definitely the place to live in the ancient world I guess :lol:

Yeah you bring up a good point where you would want to live. In which case, I would never pick places like Rome or Athens even if I were rich. :lol: My answer would still be Pataliputra especially during Asoka the Great (King of Kings)'s reign. :angel:

Indus Valley as far as I know didn't have capital cities though. So not sure if you can say them here.

Lin Lin
Mar 23rd, 2013, 12:25 AM
No Changan(Xi'an now) mentioned?:eek:

Sam L
Mar 23rd, 2013, 01:41 AM
No Changan(Xi'an now) mentioned?:eek:

Hi Lin Lin, see here:



- Chang'an would be another candidate. Capital city of more than 10 Chinese dynasties including their most glorious: Tang and Han. :worship:

:)

Mateo Mathieu
Mar 23rd, 2013, 02:07 AM
Rome, I guess, is like the Beyonce of the ancient world. They had a good eye for what was good, and subsequently stole all their culture from the Greeks.

I'm quoting this on my Facebook.