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View Full Version : Saudi Finally Joins 20th Century. Grant Women Some Rights; NEXT, 21st Century?


tennisbum79
Sep 25th, 2011, 07:18 PM
As I said before, no society has ever been ready to grant rights to a disenfranchised portion of its society.
Because no one has ever relinquished social advantages, deserved or undeserved, willingly.


It is pressure form within and outside that make authority in power move.
It was the case for countless societies such as South Africa, USA just to name a few.


Rulers can hide behind the mantra of social stability, tradition, or national uniqueness for only a limited time.
Soon or later, they will feel the pressure or the shame/embarrassment when looking around them.

Of course, they can always find a few members of the disenfranchised willing to go on camera to say there is nothing wrong with their society, or their group is not ready to handle such "responsibility as freedom and making one's own decision", but that can't stop the tide.


I know there are a number of posters here who have taken and advocated this position in a few threads, I'd like to hear from them and others what they think now.





Saudi Arabia bows to pressure to reform and grants women the vote


The world’s last bastion against female suffrage bowed to the forces of change when Saudi Arabia granted its female population the right to vote for the first time.



The historic decision came after King Abdullah, the Saudi (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/) ruler, conceded that a study of Muslim history had shown that women were capable of rational thinking and decision making.

“Muslim women in our Islamic history have demonstrated positions that expressed correct opinions and advice,” he told advisers.




Even in the Middle East, where women’s rights have lagged behind much of the rest of the world, Saudi Arabia has stood out as a reactionary citadel against the march of feminism.

Women have been denied the most basic of freedoms, forbidden from driving or leaving the country without the permission of a male guardian.

King Abdullah’s ruling appeared to show that even Saudi Arabia was not immune to the climate of greater openness and freedom being swept across the Middle East in the wake of the Arab Spring.





Although the kingdom has escaped the populist demonstrations that have erupted elsewhere in the region, the king has come under pressure to make limited reforms if only to save his monarchy.



The announcement will not necessarily give women a powerful voice in the country. Saudi Arabia holds no elections beyond municipal level, with power almost exclusively restricted to the confines of the royal family.



But the decision to allow women both to vote in and contest municipal elections is an unprecedented gesture towards equality in Saudi Arabia.



In what could prove an even more significant step, the king also announced that women would be allowed to serve in the Shura Council, whose role is purely advisory but which nonetheless constitutes the most influential political body in the country outside the royal family. Until now, women had only been given a symbolic presence on the council.

“Because we refuse to marginalise women in society in all roles that comply with Sharia, we have decided, after deliberation with our senior clerics and others, to involve women in the Shura Council as members starting from next term,” the king told the body.


“Women will be able to run as candidates to the municipal election and will even have a right to vote.”
The ageing king, rumours of whose period poor health have sparked concerns about the kingdom’s future, has been seen as a cautious reformer. His decision, which has been debated within the political elite for some months, could cause a backlash from within the traditionally hidebound religious establishment.



Seeing themselves as the custodians of the Islam’s holiest places -- Mecca and Medina -- the House of Saud has always been forced to rely on the goodwill of clerics from the puritanical Wahhabi strain of Islam to ensure its legitimacy.



Female activists in Saudi Arabia hailed the decision and vowed to step up their campaign to extend women’s rights in the kingdom.
“This is great news,” Waheja al-Huwaider, a Saudi writer and activist, said. “Women’s voices will finally be heard.



“Now it is time to remove other barriers like not allowing women to drive cars.”
Inspired by the Arab Spring, a number of women defied the driving ban by taking to the wheels of their husbands’ cars earlier this year, but the protest fizzled after a number of them were arrested.











Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/8788054/Saudi-Arabia-bows-to-pressure-to-reform-and-grants-women-the-vote.html

antonella
Sep 25th, 2011, 07:51 PM
How are they supposed to get to the polls If they can’t drive..?

tennisbum79
Sep 25th, 2011, 07:58 PM
How are they supposed to get to the polls If they canít drive..?
A non resentful male family member who agrees with the new policy will drive them or the women organizations will provide buses, hopefully.

M.S.F
Sep 25th, 2011, 08:26 PM
What a ridiculous title :tape: :help:

One step in the right direction, hopefully driving is next :)

tennisbum79
Sep 25th, 2011, 08:42 PM
What a ridiculous title :tape: :help:

One step in the right direction, hopefully driving is next :)
I am not surprised you found the title ridiculous, I have read your other posts, and you are an advocate of "it will come when the society is not ready" approach.


But I do agree with you it is a step in the right direction.

M.S.F
Sep 25th, 2011, 09:05 PM
I am not surprised you found the title ridiculous, I have read your other posts, and you are an advocate of "it will come when the society is not ready" approach.


But I do agree with you it is a step in the right direction.

The title sounds disrespectful, that's all.

LeRoy.
Sep 25th, 2011, 09:28 PM
disrespectful ? uhmmm, more like accurate. :shrug:

you want to know what is really disrespectful ? How about, how women and gays are treated in Saudi Arabia ?:rolleyes:

NoppaNoppa
Sep 25th, 2011, 09:44 PM
King keeps 50% of vote. (=100% of rule)
Joke. King still has 100 persent.
Women still have zero.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Saudi_Arabia

Ryan
Sep 25th, 2011, 09:49 PM
The title sounds disrespectful, that's all.


Fuck the what? Not letting women vote is disrespectful; this is just plain old true. Saudi Arabia is a joke, and saying they just entered the 20th century is both funny and accurate.

M.S.F
Sep 25th, 2011, 10:08 PM
disrespectful ? uhmmm, more like accurate. :shrug:

you want to know what is really disrespectful ? How about, how women and gays are treated in Saudi Arabia ?:rolleyes:

Do you live there? do you know exactly how women are treated?
It's not as bad as you think.
As for gays, no one comes out and it's out of the question right now in many Muslim countries.

M.S.F
Sep 25th, 2011, 10:10 PM
i_4VExyaCHs

NoppaNoppa
Sep 25th, 2011, 10:15 PM
i_4VExyaCHs

:bounce:

Start of womens rigts in Saudi Aradia !!!

NoppaNoppa
Sep 25th, 2011, 10:17 PM
Right given equals zero. King has VETO.

NoppaNoppa
Sep 25th, 2011, 10:21 PM
There is no parliament in Saudi Arabia.
Vote that women got is of no importance. King rules that as well.

WowWow
Sep 25th, 2011, 10:24 PM
disrespectful ? uhmmm, more like accurate. :shrug:

you want to know what is really disrespectful ? How about, how women and gays are treated in Saudi Arabia ?:rolleyes:

Exactly.

And to comment on the topic, it was about fucking time.

NoppaNoppa
Sep 25th, 2011, 10:30 PM
Exactly.

And to comment on the topic, it was about fucking time.

Yea! F and U Saudi Aradia!!!

Give women rights!!!

tennisbum79
Sep 25th, 2011, 10:35 PM
The title sounds disrespectful, that's all.
As the thread author, I have some editorial discretion , and I think I used that discretion wisely and with constraint, this title is most accurate.

In most countries of the world, many of them less economically prosperous than Saudi Arabia, women have had the right to vote the end of 20th century.

Yes tiny Kuwait joined those nations in May 2005, that was 6 ears ago, well before there was a talk of Arab Spring.

Betten
Sep 26th, 2011, 08:19 AM
As I said before, no society has ever been ready to grant rights to a disenfranchised portion of its society.
Because no one has ever relinquished social advantages, deserved or undeserved, willingly.

What a stupid statement. Members of marginal communities have always found support for their cause with a portion of the majority. Otherwise social advancement of said communities would have never been possible, because 'pressure' without aid from sympathetic members of the advantaged majority is no pressure... The rich have helped the poor, men have supported women, whites stood beside blacks, etc.

tennisbum79
Sep 26th, 2011, 01:45 PM
What a stupid statement. Members of marginal communities have always found support for their cause with a portion of the majority. Otherwise social advancement of said communities would have never been possible, because 'pressure' without aid from sympathetic members of the advantaged majority is no pressure... The rich have helped the poor, men have supported women, whites stood beside blacks, etc.
You missed the whole point.
They(rich, men, whites) did not do it voluntarily.
There has to be pressure from within, by the disenfranchised communities themselves, willing to stand up fight, helped by external moral denunciation by nations and people of good will.

I am at all not saying there are not men and women of good will in any society, of course there are.
But their voices, although helpful, are not the deterministic factor.


You are naively making it sound like the privileged groups you are citing to have "helped" the less fortunate did it out of sudden discovery of moral enlightenment.
NO, they knew, (the leaders in power structure any way) all along it was wrong, because they could not relinquish the advantages, the privileges they and their parent had enjoyed for years.
Otherwise, there would not have been 400 years of slavery and 60+ years of apartheid. Or the romans would not have held slaves.

In the case of Saoudi Arabia, the UN which they have been members of , has been a driving force for equality of gender and races.
How many UN women conferences have there been? Too many.
At those conferences, countries like Saudi Arabia were criticized for not doing enough for half of their population.


What tip the cup, is the more recent advent of the Arab Spring , this and all those criticisms, with backdrop all the UN women conferences, got the attention of the Saudi.
Not your naive notion of rich helping the poor, blah, blah.

tennisbum79
Sep 28th, 2011, 09:39 PM
Based on the latest news of a woman condemned to 10 lashes for driving, Saudi women have an uphill battle ahead of them.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-27/saudi-woman-driver-sentenced-to-10-lashes.html
Two days after Saudi King Abdullah’s decision to allow women to participate in elections, two Saudi women were punished for breaking the ban on female driving: One was sentenced to 10 lashes by a court in Jeddah and another was detained in Riyadh.
The incidents highlight the continuing disparity between the rights of men and women in the kingdom. Women may be able to vote and run in the 2015 municipal elections, but they still can’t drive, argue in court before a judge, travel or get an education or a job without male approval.

InsideOut.
Sep 29th, 2011, 08:48 AM
The king just pardoned her.

Mistress of Evil
Sep 29th, 2011, 09:40 AM
The king just pardoned her.

How kind, considerate of him :awww::bowdown:

HippityHop
Sep 29th, 2011, 02:28 PM
How kind, considerate of him :awww::bowdown:

You would have preferred that he didn't? :confused:

HippityHop
Sep 29th, 2011, 02:33 PM
Do you live there? do you know exactly how women are treated?
It's not as bad as you think.
As for gays, no one comes out and it's out of the question right now in many Muslim countries.

I hear that if you are a willing gay bottom, in many Muslim countries you can have a ball.

Last night in the US, PBS reran "The Dancing Boys of Afghanistan".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

NoppaNoppa
Sep 29th, 2011, 03:53 PM
Western cartoons are cool in Moslem world?
Here is one

http://media.caglecartoons.com/media/cartoons/34/2011/09/27/98594_600.jpg

M2k
Oct 2nd, 2011, 06:28 PM
I hear that if you are a willing gay bottom, in many Muslim countries you can have a ball.

Last night in the US, PBS reran "The Dancing Boys of Afghanistan".

That was a heartbreaking documentary :sad: I still remember how one of the kept boys said in confession that his life had been ruined ( he was probably around his early teens I think. You could see the kid was hoping the reporter would rescue him or something)

UGh! Fucking assholes !

Mistress of Evil
Oct 2nd, 2011, 08:12 PM
You would have preferred that he didn't? :confused:

I would have preferred for her not to have been sentenced in the first place! I would have preferred for women to be treated like human beings!
But then again I am so grateful that the king showed such selfless mercy despite that woman committing such a mortal, unspeakable, unforgivable, deadly sin as driving.

tennisbum79
Oct 2nd, 2011, 08:39 PM
I would have preferred for her not to have been sentenced in the first place! I would have preferred for women to be treated like human beings!
But then again I am so grateful that the king showed such selfless mercy despite that woman committing such a mortal, unspeakable, unforgivable, deadly sin as driving.
Very well stated.

For some people, we should let things take their "normal" course, because that is just how it is.

HippityHop
Oct 2nd, 2011, 11:27 PM
I would have preferred for her not to have been sentenced in the first place! I would have preferred for women to be treated like human beings!
But then again I am so grateful that the king showed such selfless mercy despite that woman committing such a mortal, unspeakable, unforgivable, deadly sin as driving.

I think that most of us prefer that the world was good and kind and that there was no oppression of anyone anywhere. Now the question becomes are you ready to put your butt on the line to stop that oppression of others. And there are people who have actually put their lives on the line and even died for others, so it's not a rhetorical question.