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Apoleb
Aug 16th, 2011, 06:31 PM
I remember a couple of years ago when "pusher" was popularized on the board, it came under a lot of attack by lots of smartass posters; that the word shouldn't be used to describe (even tongue-in-cheek way) players whose purpose is to put the ball back in court for the most part.

However, it survived and today it is even part of the standard tennis lexicon - so much that Sam Smith called Peer's game yesterday a pushing game (followed by a laugh :lol:), and Jankovic's coach tells her on court no to push.

Push Theory has beaten all the odds and defeated all the naysayers. :worship:

Smitten
Aug 16th, 2011, 08:09 PM
Pushing has always existed. The posters on this forum who say the term wasn't valid were always wrong. The most respected commentators have used "push(ing)" and the most respected players have used "push(ing)" after a match.

Sammo
Aug 16th, 2011, 08:30 PM
The Big Push Theory

Expat
Aug 16th, 2011, 11:34 PM
The term "Pusher" has been around at least since Brad Gilbert.

Joana
Aug 16th, 2011, 11:42 PM
The term "Pusher" has been around at least since Brad Gilbert.

Longer than that. To quote myself from another thread:
Encyclopedia Britannica, Book of the Year 1938, entry on table tennis:
... More important is the decision to lower the net from 6 3/4 inches to 6 inches. Opinion on the likely effect of this change is by no means unanimous, but it is hoped that it will encourage attacking methods, and eliminate the "pushing" game which has spoiled many matches from the spectacular point of view.
:lol:

danieln1
Aug 16th, 2011, 11:46 PM
Conchita Martinez was the ultimate pusher, painful to watch

AcesHigh
Aug 16th, 2011, 11:58 PM
I remember a couple of years ago when "pusher" was popularized on the board, it came under a lot of attack by lots of smartass posters; that the word shouldn't be used to describe (even tongue-in-cheek way) players whose purpose is to put the ball back in court for the most part.

However, it survived and today it is even part of the standard tennis lexicon - so much that Sam Smith called Peer's game yesterday a pushing game (followed by a laugh :lol:), and Jankovic's coach tells her on court no to push.

Push Theory has beaten all the odds and defeated all the naysayers. :worship:

Pushing has always existed. The posters on this forum who say the term wasn't valid were always wrong. The most respected commentators have used "push(ing)" and the most respected players have used "push(ing)" after a match.

It's still a term of pure ignorance.. just because it's popularized does not give it any validity.

And please show me the most respected commentators using the word pushing.

Ellery
Aug 17th, 2011, 12:01 AM
omg amaze :hearts:

vozas
Aug 17th, 2011, 12:40 AM
Conchita Martinez was the ultimate pusher, painful to watch

I think Arantxa was an even more scandalous pusher. Conchita had some variety to her.

danieln1
Aug 17th, 2011, 12:56 AM
I think Arantxa was an even more scandalous pusher. Conchita had some variety to her.

Arantxa was terrible to watch too..... push push pushing. never ending points....

Coetzer also.

Volcana
Aug 17th, 2011, 01:04 AM
I remember a couple of years ago when "pusher" was popularized on the board, it came under a lot of attack by lots of smartass posters; that the word shouldn't be used to describe (even tongue-in-cheek way) players whose purpose is to put the ball back in court for the most part.

However, it survived and today it is even part of the standard tennis lexicon - so much that Sam Smith called Peer's game yesterday a pushing game (followed by a laugh ), and Jankovic's coach tells her on court no to push.

Push Theory has beaten all the odds and defeated all the naysayers. I remain undefeated. I am a huge fan of women's tennis, and I don't use terms like 'pusher' and 'ball-basher' that are ultimately used to deride the players and the game. If you want to insult the players and the game, why even visit this site?

Pops Maellard
Aug 17th, 2011, 02:40 AM
It's still a term of pure ignorance.. just because it's popularized does not give it any validity.

And please show me the most respected commentators using the word pushing.

At Wimbledon '09 a couple of commentators said Roddick wad 'pushing' the ball in one of his earlier rounds. I can't remember who though. Might've been Henman, Rusdedski, one of those two.

tennisbum79
Aug 17th, 2011, 03:09 AM
Yeah! We are always a couple of years ahead of the tennis world.

AcesHigh
Aug 17th, 2011, 03:13 AM
At Wimbledon '09 a couple of commentators said Roddick wad 'pushing' the ball in one of his earlier rounds. I can't remember who though. Might've been Henman, Rusdedski, one of those two.

Push is a pretty common word. I doubt it was being used in the context TF users use it.
I've used the word with some coaches to talk about a technical aspect of the stroke.. not a strategic one. Particularly when you're not taking full swings or following through the entire stroke with validity and conviction. It happens when players are often tentative.. perhaps not so confident. It however has nothing to do with a defensive mindset or strategy. For example, TF's ultimate pusher Caroline Wozniacki takes full cuts at the ball... she just prefers to play a higher percentage game in terms of placement, aggressiveness and pace (although the last part doesn't seem to be voluntary).

anyways, if you could find a clip.. that'd be nice. Until then I'll have to stand by what I said.

Pops Maellard
Aug 17th, 2011, 03:16 AM
Push is a pretty common word. I doubt it was being used in the context TF users use it.
I've used the word with some coaches to talk about a technical aspect of the stroke.. not a strategic one.

anyways, if you could find a clip.. that'd be nice. Until then I'll have to stand by what I said.

It was. :p I'm not making it up. It was either 2R VS Kunitsyn or 3R VS Melzer, can't remember. Specifically they said "pushing the ball around the court".

AcesHigh
Aug 17th, 2011, 03:19 AM
It was. :p I'm not making it up. It was either 2R VS Kunitsyn or 3R VS Melzer, can't remember.

I believe you.. there's just a difference between an involuntary "pushing" of the ball as a technical error in stroke production.. and the TF definition of pushing which is a bastardization of the term and an oversimplification for defensive play.

tennisbum79
Aug 17th, 2011, 03:27 AM
Push is a pretty common word. I doubt it was being used in the context TF users use it.
I've used the word with some coaches to talk about a technical aspect of the stroke.. not a strategic one. Particularly when you're not taking full swings or following through the entire stroke with validity and conviction. It happens when players are often tentative.. perhaps not so confident. It however has nothing to do with a defensive mindset or strategy. For example, TF's ultimate pusher Caroline Wozniacki takes full cuts at the ball... she just prefers to play a higher percentage game in terms of placement, aggressiveness and pace (although the last part doesn't seem to be voluntary).

anyways, if you could find a clip.. that'd be nice. Until then I'll have to stand by what I said.

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Apoleb
Aug 17th, 2011, 07:17 AM
Longer than that. To quote myself from another thread:

That is pretty amazing. What legacy. :worship:

Of course the naysayers will flock to this thread, but the facts are too strong. Pushing is there to stay. It predates us all, and will outlast us as long as tennis continues to be played.

Whitehead's Boy
Aug 17th, 2011, 07:40 AM
Longer than that. Didn't Nostradamus complain about a Danish pusher who would remain slamless?

It's funny some people complain about the word. As if using hyperbolic language to make a point is unheard of.

I recall reading here that there is no such thing as a pusher in the pro tour. That person must have missed the Coetzer-Martinez US Open match.

Also, I wouldn't even call Sanchez-Vicario a pusher. Or at least, Woz is more of a pusher than ASV was.

LUVMIRZA
Aug 17th, 2011, 08:06 AM
^:spit:@ the Nostradamus part

pav
Aug 17th, 2011, 10:33 AM
Don't know about pushers, but there are quite a few pullers on this board!

Rome
Aug 17th, 2011, 10:46 AM
Push is a pretty common word. I doubt it was being used in the context TF users use it.
I've used the word with some coaches to talk about a technical aspect of the stroke.. not a strategic one. Particularly when you're not taking full swings or following through the entire stroke with validity and conviction. It happens when players are often tentative.. perhaps not so confident. It however has nothing to do with a defensive mindset or strategy. For example, TF's ultimate pusher Caroline Wozniacki takes full cuts at the ball... she just prefers to play a higher percentage game in terms of placement, aggressiveness and pace (although the last part doesn't seem to be voluntary).

anyways, if you could find a clip.. that'd be nice. Until then I'll have to stand by what I said.

Not sure if you ever watch the highlights of Serena vs Wozniacki? i think it was an '09 match I could not belive my eyes i swear i have never seen this Wozniacki She was hitting winners and beating Serena for pace at times it was one of the best matches of 09' i think there were 2 tie break sets i wish someone would post the highlights again great match.

*JR*
Aug 17th, 2011, 11:19 AM
If you want to insult the players and the game, why even visit this site?

Let me address the quoted sentence in a broader sense, not about any particular style or player. Know why? Because GM is a news and opinion forum, :shout: not some Soviet style fanboy and fangirl haven!

Dammit Volcana, you (like me) are a 50-something, plz don't act like one of those here who are pwned by (relative) celebrity. There are Player Forums (and cheering threads for others, divided by nationality) here for that. :rolleyes:

KBlade
Aug 17th, 2011, 11:34 AM
Not sure if you ever watch the highlights of Serena vs Wozniacki? i think it was an '09 match I could not belive my eyes i swear i have never seen this Wozniacki She was hitting winners and beating Serena for pace at times it was one of the best matches of 09' i think there were 2 tie break sets i wish someone would post the highlights again great match.

Probably one of the better matches of her career and still came up short against 40% Serena :lol:

brickhousesupporter
Aug 17th, 2011, 11:50 AM
It is hilarious that people think that TF invented or even popularized the word pushing or pusher.

homogenius
Aug 17th, 2011, 11:52 AM
:facepalm:

crazillo
Aug 17th, 2011, 12:14 PM
I made this thread a couple weeks ago entitled "this board only knows ballbashers and pushers" and now even tennis commentators use it. :lol:

I prefer to call players like Peer 'retrievers' because pushing IMO does refer to a bad swing where you don't really follow through with your racquet. It's a term related to technique rather than playing style IMO.

moby
Aug 17th, 2011, 01:51 PM
Longer than that. To quote myself from another thread:Not that the use of pushing hasn't been around in tennis forever, but it's not quite the same as that used in table tennis. In table tennis, the push is also the actual name of a shot (used by all players in certain situations), and not so much a disparaging term. That's because spin or lack thereof is a very important part of table tennis (much much much more than in tennis), so a deep slow spinless shot can be effective in confusing the opponent.

In tennis, pushing is poor technique, and a top player would never use them, unless they are Roger Federer doing it as a casual trick shot.

debby
Aug 17th, 2011, 01:53 PM
Apoleb trolling :hearts: Amaze.

Apoleb
Aug 17th, 2011, 03:25 PM
Push Theory is now on display in its full glory by its magnificent ambassador. :worship:

Volcana
Aug 17th, 2011, 03:36 PM
Because GM is a news and opinion forum, :shout: not some Soviet style fanboy and fangirl haven!It's possible to be critical, even severely critical, without being denigrating.

Direwolf
Aug 17th, 2011, 04:27 PM
Pushing only became theoreticaly bad when Wozniacki got to number 1. Back then push was used as a "praise" word.

Joana
Aug 17th, 2011, 04:51 PM
Not that the use of pushing hasn't been around in tennis forever, but it's not quite the same as that used in table tennis. In table tennis, the push is also the actual name of a shot (used by all players in certain situations), and not so much a disparaging term. That's because spin or lack thereof is a very important part of table tennis (much much much more than in tennis), so a deep slow spinless shot can be effective in confusing the opponent.

In tennis, pushing is poor technique, and a top player would never use them, unless they are Roger Federer doing it as a casual trick shot.

I'm not so sure. The word is in quotation marks, so I think it's a description of the style rather than an actual shot. To me it's clear it refers to a defensive, visually unappealing game, much like it's used today in tennis discussions. :shrug:

moby
Aug 17th, 2011, 05:22 PM
I'm not so sure. The word is in quotation marks, so I think it's a description of the style rather than an actual shot. To me it's clear it refers to a defensive, visually unappealing game, much like it's used today in tennis discussions. :shrug:Yeah I see. I imagine a game with only pushes wouldn't be appealing. The irony is that in table tennis now, the most visually appealing game is the game of the modern defensive chopper, but unfortunately it's not so effective because technology and such has made the game so fast and topspin-heavy that it's all about forced errors now. That seems to be the way men's tennis is going, sadly.

AcesHigh
Aug 17th, 2011, 05:40 PM
The problem is the technical "pushing" of a ball as a technical error is not the same way used by TF posters.

I doubt many will understand though.

Whitehead's Boy
Aug 17th, 2011, 05:44 PM
Ah, now I know why I remember so well that moronic darrin's post, it's because a poster has it in his signature.

Apoleb
Aug 17th, 2011, 06:03 PM
The problem is the technical "pushing" of a ball as a technical error is not the same way used by TF posters.

I doubt many will understand though.

It's the same way used by Brad Gilbert, Ricardo Sanchez, Sam Smith, Rusedski/Henman and others named in this thread.

I don't think you understand that, since obviously your opinion is dictated by what the "experts" say.

pov
Aug 17th, 2011, 06:40 PM
I remember a couple of years ago when "pusher" was popularized on the board, it came under a lot of attack by lots of smartass posters; that the word shouldn't be used to describe (even tongue-in-cheek way) players whose purpose is to put the ball back in court for the most part.

However, it survived and today it is even part of the standard tennis lexicon - so much that Sam Smith called Peer's game yesterday a pushing game (followed by a laugh :lol:), and Jankovic's coach tells her on court no to push.


The term has been around for years. It's a moronic term whoever is using it. And BTW there are many popular terms that are idiotic. What? You have the delusion that popularity is the measure of validity?