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View Full Version : Who is greater, Svetlana Kuznetsova or Ana Ivanovic?


Julian.
May 6th, 2011, 06:42 PM
If they are to retire today who do you consider greater?

Svetlana Kuznetsova:
2 Grand Slam Titles (French Open & US Open)
World #2
13 career titles

Ana Ivanovic:
1 Grand Slam Title (French Open)
World #1
10 career titles

Sveta has more grand slam titles and career titles overall but Ana has been ranked world #1 while Sveta never.

edificio
May 6th, 2011, 06:43 PM
Are you serious?

Young 8
May 6th, 2011, 06:46 PM
Ivanovic is better than Kuznetsova only in modeling

Kworb
May 6th, 2011, 06:47 PM
2 Slams that count > 0 Slams that count

2/0 = +INF

Svetlana is infinite times as great as Ivanovic.

melodynelson
May 6th, 2011, 06:49 PM
Preferia esquecer-me de ambas...

Kuznetsova achieved more, more finals, but Ivanovic had probably the best «hot streak» of the two, between Paris 07 and Paris 08.

Julian.
May 6th, 2011, 06:49 PM
Are you serious?

Yes :lol:

Sammo
May 6th, 2011, 06:50 PM
Sveta by far

In The Zone
May 6th, 2011, 06:51 PM
Kuznetsova, not even close.

Sveta's peak is one of the most impressive displays of tennis I've ever seen. Up there with Venus at Wimbledon and Serena 07 OZ F.

edificio
May 6th, 2011, 06:53 PM
Yes :lol:

Okay. :lol:

Well, if Ana had a significant number more titles, maybe you would have an argument. But...no. Sveta is greater, except at modeling. :)

Miracle Worker
May 6th, 2011, 06:56 PM
Sveta. Without doubt.

Even now when she can't win anything she is better than slumping Ana.

Balltossovic
May 6th, 2011, 07:05 PM
Well, Sveta has achieved more, certainly, so she is "greater" than Ana... that is until she has to play her:shrug:

Curtos07
May 6th, 2011, 07:09 PM
Ask me in 7-8 years when Ana has completed her career.

Matt01
May 6th, 2011, 07:11 PM
Ana was a very weak #1 and doesn't have YE #1 ranking so she can't make up for 1 additional Slam title of Sveta.

Kuznetsova is my vote.

doomsday
May 6th, 2011, 07:13 PM
We've been trough this. Kuz is greater.

OsloErik
May 6th, 2011, 07:32 PM
Kuznetsova has had the greater career.

BUT, Ivanovic won all of her important titles in a very rapid succession. From April 2007-June 2008 she had a better hot streak than Kuznetsova has had; Kuznetsova's biggest accomplishments have tended to come more spread out ('04 slam title, '06 Tier I title, '07 QF streak, '09 slam title, etc.).

I don't buy the "Ivanovic as #1" bit, though, because if I remember correctly, Henin would have remained #1 through the U.S. Open if she had elected to NOT have her name removed from the rankings. Ivanovic was a real place holder. She was the best on tour in that stretch, but I don't think anyone can argue she would have been #1 without Henin's 'retirement'.

timafi
May 6th, 2011, 07:54 PM
Sveta:shrug:
2 slams
2 or is it 3 or 4 Fed Cup titles :D

Sveta's my girl:hug:

King Halep
May 6th, 2011, 08:11 PM
Ivanovic is 6'1

Balltossovic
May 6th, 2011, 08:29 PM
Ivanovic is 6'1
As in height or head to head? Their head to head is 5:2 Ana

King Halep
May 6th, 2011, 08:34 PM
Ana is much taller and probably heavier

Balltossovic
May 6th, 2011, 08:36 PM
Of course she is:rolleyes:

erschloy214
May 6th, 2011, 08:39 PM
Sveta

Dominika23
May 6th, 2011, 08:45 PM
Ana Ivanovic going be greater than Svetlana Kuznetsova due to the fact she younger and still have alot more time to make more history in tennis then Svetlana Kuznetsova which we can say ana really already did beside Svetlana Kuznetsova having two grand slam. ana beat her by being a former number 1 and she only three title away from being even with Svetlana Kuznetsova

Alejandrawrrr
May 6th, 2011, 09:01 PM
:lol: Umm... Seriously? 2>1, 13>10. Weeks at #1 used to count for something, not so much anymore with the incredibly weak number ones we've had for the past couple of years not including Serena and Kim. I mean, it's not like Sveta totally ecclipses Ana or anything, just that it's very hard to make a case for Ana when using most objecting criteria, Sveta is just greater...

And re: the age difference, Ana does have time to build on her number of tour titles, but... Let's be real, she's probably not going to be #1 or win a slam again :shrug:

laurie
May 6th, 2011, 09:04 PM
Every time I log on to this forum now, it's one thread after another about which player is greater than another :facepalm: :smash:

Lucemferre
May 6th, 2011, 09:10 PM
Kuznetsova. the only reason ivanovic became no1 was because henin retired. So that no1 ranking doesn't mean much.And she embarrassed herself while ranked no1.

King Halep
May 6th, 2011, 09:12 PM
Every time I log on to this forum now, it's one thread after another about which player is greater than another :facepalm: :smash:

Yeah, I know. I mean why cant they just go to the WTA site and look up their sizes :help:

Linguae^
May 6th, 2011, 09:13 PM
No way Kuznetsova is greater than Ana, and even Ana has yet more to achieve.

Bismarck.
May 6th, 2011, 09:22 PM
Every time I log on to this forum now, it's one thread after another about which player is greater than another :facepalm: :smash:

It's hardly as if the WTA is engrossing right now.

As for the question, it's Kuznetsova by a clear margin.

Cherry.
May 6th, 2011, 10:01 PM
Every time I log on to this forum now, it's one thread after another about which player is greater than another :facepalm: :smash:
This.

The Daviator
May 6th, 2011, 10:53 PM
Kuznetsova has had the greater career.

BUT, Ivanovic won all of her important titles in a very rapid succession. From April 2007-June 2008 she had a better hot streak than Kuznetsova has had; Kuznetsova's biggest accomplishments have tended to come more spread out ('04 slam title, '06 Tier I title, '07 QF streak, '09 slam title, etc.).

I don't buy the "Ivanovic as #1" bit, though, because if I remember correctly, Henin would have remained #1 through the U.S. Open if she had elected to NOT have her name removed from the rankings. Ivanovic was a real place holder. She was the best on tour in that stretch, but I don't think anyone can argue she would have been #1 without Henin's 'retirement'.

Ana would have become #1 after Montreal, so she would have had 3 weeks at the top, but she still would have reached the summit if Justine didn't remove herself.

Sveta is certainly greater so far.

juanka19
May 6th, 2011, 11:05 PM
People, how old do you think Sveta is? She's 25... and Ana's 23 or something like that... it's like we're comparing two players where one of them is 10 years older than the other... the difference is just 2 years... so the argument that "Ana has a better future because she's very young and Sveta is not"

The only thing where Ana is better is the #1... but as it has been said, Henin would've been #1 the rest of the year...

So...

Peak Sveta > Peak Ana (at least for me and I think more people will agree than disagree)
2 slams > 1 slam

The answer is so obvious I won't say it :P

Balltossovic
May 7th, 2011, 01:16 AM
Ana doesn't have to be at her peak to beat Svetlana, and I love Sveta but no. Just no...

goldenlox
May 7th, 2011, 01:20 AM
Of course a multiple slam winner is above a 1 slam winner, but they both have years to go.

justineheninfan
May 7th, 2011, 01:22 AM
Kuznetsova, not even close.

Sveta's peak is one of the most impressive displays of tennis I've ever seen. Up there with Venus at Wimbledon and Serena 07 OZ F.

ROTFL when the heck was that!?!? In some alterior universe. :lol: Kuznetsova's 2 slams were highlighted by a 3 set win over an injured Davenport who would have spanked her otherwise, and a narrow win over Serena on clay. Her best tournament ever was probably Miami one year where she beat Mauresmo and Sharapova in straight sets, excellent but still hardly anything historic.

Kuznetsova is so overrated on this forum it is laughable, actually for that matter all the Russian players are. I sometimes think 90% of the posters are Russian. Venus, Serena, Henin, Sharapova, Clijsters at their best >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kuznetsova at hers.

That said on this topic Kuznetsova by a bit.

DragonFlame
May 7th, 2011, 01:29 AM
Svetlana, period.

JCTennisFan
May 7th, 2011, 01:32 AM
Ouch, cant say that Kuzzie really holds a candle to Ivanovic, when comparing peak form. Kuzzie has one of the UGLIEST games ive ever seen a GS player possess. She appears as though she muscles the ball half the time (meaning her technique and timing isnt good, and he is making up for it with sheer strength) and generally just has lackluster ability. IMO she is the premier player when it comes to "winning ugly".

She is still an accomplished player, and she has done alot, but I cant help but cringe every time I watch her play. She seemingly makes such a pretty looking game look all choppy and discombobulated (lol, like that word?). Why Nav had such belief in her is beyond me (unless she liked how potentially fit/strong she could be? She could of pulled a Nav and gotten all fit and beefed up, but even if she did that she'd still have crummy groundstrokes in comparison to Nav).

Ivanovic on the other hand, when on, actually has a reasonably pretty game. She doesnt hit through her backhand like she should, but it doesnt look like she has to muscle it, ala Kuzzie. Ivanovic appears, atleast to me, to have naturally better hand/eye coordination and superior timing. Thats why her game looks alot "cleaner" when on vrs Kuzzie. The only things Kuzzie does better is Grinding down opponents, and her movement.

Balltossovic
May 7th, 2011, 01:40 AM
^^ Sveta is one of the few players that can go forehand to forehand with Ana, more importantly, she has a far superior backhand. I don't think Sveta muscles the ball at all. She's also a Superior volleyer than Ana. Though Ana may have "prettier" strokes, Svetlana, in my opinion, also has a fluid game.

JCTennisFan
May 7th, 2011, 02:18 AM
I respect that, and Im not saying she cant play nicely from time to time, but the majority of times Ive seen her play, it has been a sloppy muscle fest. Ive seen WAY too many matches of hers where she is completely unimpressive, from a technical standpoint. She is bigger and stronger, and has better endurance than most girls on tour, and I completely believe that is why she has as much success as she does. Give Kuzzie Jankovic's body type, for instance, and I highly doubt her game would be anywhere near as imposing.

Off the top of my head.... 09 French Final, 04 US open Semi, 04 US open Final, 06 US Open Semi, just to name a few. She too often just has a Fugly arse game, imo. And there are only so many reasons why your game looks Fugly. Bad technique, bad timing, and bad stroke production are the only main things that come to my mind. She has a little bit of all of those things, but mostly the technique and timing (stroke production isnt bad, but its not nearly as effective as you'd think her strokes should be) are her problems, imo.

delicatecutter
May 7th, 2011, 02:46 AM
Obviously Kuznetsova. Not only does she have more Majors and more overall titles, she also has wins over Serena and Justine which Ana does not.

But interestingly enough, Ana has a great h2h against Sveta. Strange how these things work. :lol:

Vincey!
May 7th, 2011, 02:53 AM
Gotta go with Sveta. She has proved in the past that she was able to come back to the top after falling down the ranking and win a 2nd GS title, regardless of how she's playing now. I'd be more confident to see her back in the top10 than Ana. Despite the fact that Ana might beat Sveta right now, I think Ana hasn't proven any kind of champion spirit by coming back at the top after a hurdle. It just seems that instead of slowing down and gradually cross the hurdle ( something that Sveta has done before) she's getting them all in her face and they are piling on her shoulders. Dragging her down even more and making her come back tougher. That being said I do think Ana will find her game someday...but for now Sveta has proven she was a more consistent and thrustworthy player. Also, Ana has 1 slam, sveta got 2 :p

Sp!ffy
May 7th, 2011, 02:58 AM
2 Slams that count > 0 Slams that count

2/0 = +INF

Svetlana is infinite times as great as Ivanovic.

2 divided by 0 is undefined..:unsure:

miffedmax
May 7th, 2011, 03:43 AM
http://500motivators.com/plog-content/thumbs/motivate/me/large/490-stop-that-this-thread-is-getting-very-silly.jpg

fufuqifuqishahah
May 7th, 2011, 04:05 AM
When I saw this, I was like.... is this a joke?

x_x

Voting confirmed my thoughts. :P

I will say though, they still both have the opportunity to achieve a lot, so who knows :D

BlueTrees
May 7th, 2011, 05:23 AM
Ask me in 7-8 years when Ana has completed her career.

Read what the OP said idiot. "If they are to retire today who do you consider greater?"

Loungy
May 7th, 2011, 05:24 AM
Kuznetsova is so overrated on this forum it is laughable
I think with her it's because she's forgettable for the most part. Like, people don't actually pay that much attention to her but know she's won two slams and can go toe to toe with Serena on occasions.

danieln1
May 7th, 2011, 06:09 AM
2 Slams that count > 0 Slams that count

2/0 = +INF

Svetlana is infinite times as great as Ivanovic.

Your hate for Ivanovic is disgusting, so Ivanovic >>>>>>>>> Dementieva, judging by your brilliant math class

Mr.Sharapova
May 7th, 2011, 08:44 AM
Kuznetsova, and its not even close :)

justineheninfan
May 7th, 2011, 09:23 PM
I think with her it's because she's forgettable for the most part. Like, people don't actually pay that much attention to her but know she's won two slams and can go toe to toe with Serena on occasions.

Since after 2003 there are many players who can go toe to toe with Serena except on grass. All her Australian Opens have atleast 2 miracelous esacpes it seems, and on clay she has mostly failed for awhile now. She is just so much a champion and mentally tough she finds a way to pull through and win alot of those slams anyway.

Bart77
May 7th, 2011, 09:32 PM
Ivanovic is better than Kuznetsova only in modeling

:rolls::rolls::rolls:

Curtos07
May 7th, 2011, 09:49 PM
Your hate for Ivanovic is disgusting, so Ivanovic >>>>>>>>> Dementieva, judging by your brilliant math class

OWNED! :lol:

How does it feel Kworb?

terjw
May 7th, 2011, 09:57 PM
Kuznetsova. the only reason ivanovic became no1 was because henin retired. So that no1 ranking doesn't mean much.And she embarrassed herself while ranked no1.

It's not the fact that Justine retired. That's woulda coulda land and we just don't know. It was that Justine was #1 on the points that she had earned but asked to be removed from the rankings. Ana had not earned the most ranking points the previous 12 months when she was gifted the #1. I really think the WTA should have waited until Justine was no longer #1 before removing Justine from the rankings. That's why I would put an asterisk against Ana's weeks at #1.

The point is that when Ana got to #1 - it was solely because Justine asked her points to be removed.

Curtos07
May 7th, 2011, 10:20 PM
^If that's the case, you would have to put an asterisk next to JJ's #1 as well. ;) That's just stupid.

Loungy
May 7th, 2011, 10:48 PM
Your hate for Ivanovic is disgusting, so Ivanovic >>>>>>>>> Dementieva, judging by your brilliant math class
Not really, since he's considering Ana's one slam doesn't count (that's why he says 2/0 = +INF). So it follows that, in his mind, her one slam wouldn't count against Dementieva either.

And Elena has more titles.

Bismarck.
May 7th, 2011, 11:02 PM
Your hate for Ivanovic is disgusting, so Ivanovic >>>>>>>>> Dementieva, judging by your brilliant math class

Not really, because by his logic then they would both have 0 Slams which count, yet Dementieva has more titles and two Olympic medals to her name (one gold), so she would most likely >>>>>Ivanovic :shrug:

JCTennisFan
May 7th, 2011, 11:03 PM
Like I said before, Kuzzie wins......... if the award is "Ugliest GS winning performance".

Cp6uja
May 8th, 2011, 12:16 AM
I agree that Kuznetsova career achievements so far is overall slightly better than Ana Ivanovic achievements, but I vote for Ana because this three reasons:

1. For me Kuznetsova is one of most underrated WTA players in Open Era (and especially on this forum), but still I'm pretty sure that PEAK-Ana is better player than PEAK-Sveta, which means Ana at her best is better player than Sveta at her best. Fact is that Ana in just 15 months on her prime achieve almost everything like Sveta in whole career (player which won first slam in 2004 and 2nd five years later in 2009). H2H is also show that because Ivanovic beat Kuznetsova in 2 tier-I finals, RG-QF (favorite GS for both) and at YEC. Sveta beat Ana at MM and at FED CUP where Ana is at career lowest point.

2. Poll question is (if they both retire today) who is greater, not who has better achievements! Important part of GREATNESS of some athlete is his influence on his sport and (tennis) era. If they both retire today I'm sure that Ana Ivanovic tennis legacy will be deeper and longer than Sveta's. Already after 10 or 15 years only real tennis fans and Russians will knows about Sveta and still remember her (see examples of Conchita Martinez or Jana Novotna), unlike Ivanovic which is some kind of world sports phenom (like for example Gabriela Sabatini 20 years ago). That's why for me Anna Kournikova which influence on upcoming WTA Russian tennis boom is so big, is GREATER player than Anna Smashnova or Anna Chakvetadze, despite career achievements criteria.

3. In all TF-GM polls I always vote for Ana.

JAS_
May 8th, 2011, 01:23 AM
I am not saying one is better than the other, but can you please stop with Ana was embarassing as no. 1 idiocy?
Also, Ana would have become no. 1 even if Justine hadn't asked to be removed from the rankings because due to her not playing she would have started falling behind in the no of points. It's been proved that it is the case, only in that case Ana would have become no. 1 later.
If you want to talk what would have happened if she hadn't retired, I can also make an argument that her retirement actually wasn't beneficial for Ana at all, quite the contrary, I even think Ana would have reigned longer if she had "earned" the spot in the regular way. Justine's retirement messed up with Ana's mind, because she became no.1 prematurely; she was slowly making the rankings and getting ready psychologically, Justine's abrupt retirement caught her off guard and no wonder she wasn't ready. Not to mention that Justine was getting beaten in the weeks before her retirement, if I remember correctly Masha beat her in AO, Dinara kicked her ass in Berlin, so since Ana beat Dinara in the RG final I will assume that she would have kicked Justine's ass as well.
That is of course mere assumption, but since people around these parts of the forum regularly talk about assumptions as proven facts, I may just as well.

jimmy_the_greek
May 8th, 2011, 02:15 AM
Svetlana

MB.
May 8th, 2011, 03:03 AM
Your hate for Ivanovic is disgusting, so Ivanovic >>>>>>>>> Dementieva, judging by your brilliant math class

All people on TF look at is GS count. Schiavone > Dementieva, Jankovic, Safina, etc. :lol:

Apparently, 2 great weeks > years of great play.

OsloErik
May 8th, 2011, 10:34 AM
2. Poll question is (if they both retire today) who is greater, not who has better achievements! Important part of GREATNESS of some athlete is his influence on his sport and (tennis) era. If they both retire today I'm sure that Ana Ivanovic tennis legacy will be deeper and longer than Sveta's. Already after 10 or 15 years only real tennis fans and Russians will knows about Sveta and still remember her (see examples of Conchita Martinez or Jana Novotna), unlike Ivanovic which is some kind of world sports phenom (like for example Gabriela Sabatini 20 years ago). That's why for me Anna Kournikova which influence on upcoming WTA Russian tennis boom is so big, is GREATER player than Anna Smashnova or Anna Chakvetadze, despite career achievements criteria.

...I hate to break this to you, but most of the world has no f***ing clue who Ana Ivanovic is. If you did a poll of who people know of who play tennis today, the female tennis players they'd think of would be the Williams sisters, Sharapova, and that's about it. Ivanovic has nowhere near the cultural penetration as those three, in spite of Adidas and Serbian nationalists trying to force her down our throats. She's certainly better known in Europe than she is in America, but she is hardly a phenom of the caliber you are trying to make her out to be. In the American market, she's a virtual non-entity, largely because she doesn't really speak English.

I'll also throw in that you're comparing Kuznetsova-Ivanovic to Jovotna-Sabatini-Martinez, which is a poor comparison. Of the three great one-slam wonders from the 90s, Sabatini stands out for obvious reasons. But with Kuznetsova-Ivanovic, you aren't comparing one-slam wonders. Kuznetsova's had over a half-decade of impact on women's tennis.

So you tell me: what separates Ivanovic from Mima Jausovec in the collective conscious?

Lord Choc Ice
May 8th, 2011, 11:05 AM
I voted for Ana.

I believe Ana's full year of top-level play is greater than Svetlana's tendencies to play one good tournament and disappear for months (even years).

~Cherry*Blossom~
May 8th, 2011, 11:13 AM
I can't believe people are voting for meat head over Svetlana!

JAS_
May 8th, 2011, 12:42 PM
...I hate to break this to you, but most of the world has no f***ing clue who Ana Ivanovic is. If you did a poll of who people know of who play tennis today, the female tennis players they'd think of would be the Williams sisters, Sharapova, and that's about it. Ivanovic has nowhere near the cultural penetration as those three, in spite of Adidas and Serbian nationalists trying to force her down our throats. She's certainly better known in Europe than she is in America, but she is hardly a phenom of the caliber you are trying to make her out to be. In the American market, she's a virtual non-entity, largely because she doesn't really speak English.



What a load of crap. On so many levels.
I can testify to the exact opposite - that people who don't really follow tennis know very well about Ana (Novak and JJ as well). I chatted about JJ and Ana with folks who are no tennis fans quite a few times. I was once asked, upon explaining that I am Serbian, if everyone in Serbia plays tennis. :lol:
As for the other part of this load of crap, Ana is certainly not a favorite of the Serbian nationalists, in fact the mostly hate her because she isn't patriotic enough (in their opinion).

As for the bolded part, really no comment. :help:

And, are you saying that Adidas and a few Serbian nationalists have greater influence on public than Nike and American media and propaganda machine? It's laughable how you conveniently ignore that.

Also, I hate to break it to you - but American market is not the entire world.

BartoliBabes
May 8th, 2011, 01:14 PM
Sveta ffs, stupid thread

Bismarck.
May 8th, 2011, 01:35 PM
I voted for Ana.

I believe Ana's full year of top-level play is greater than Svetlana's tendencies to play one good tournament and disappear for months (even years).

Those tendencies have only shown up in the past two to three years. Throughout 2004-2008 (with the exception of late 2005) she was one of the most consistent players on the Tour. :shrug: In 2006, she made the semi-finals or better in 12 events and won 60 matches (the same amount as 2004, actually) and in 2007 she won only five less matches. In fact, in six different years she has won over 40 matches and in five different years has finished in the top 10 in the rankings (with four of those finishes in the top 5). There's no point in saying that she's less consistent than Ana because she Ana has one full year of continually decent results without a large amount of anomalies.

Betten
May 8th, 2011, 02:48 PM
Kuznetsova.

Myskina-Ivanovic would be a better comparison IMO.

Cp6uja
May 8th, 2011, 03:14 PM
...I hate to break this to you, but most of the world has no f***ing clue who Ana Ivanovic is. If you did a poll of who people know of who play tennis today, the female tennis players they'd think of would be the Williams sisters, Sharapova, and that's about it. Ivanovic has nowhere near the cultural penetration as those three, in spite of Adidas and Serbian nationalists trying to force her down our throats. She's certainly better known in Europe than she is in America, but she is hardly a phenom of the caliber you are trying to make her out to be. In the American market, she's a virtual non-entity, largely because she doesn't really speak English.I compared current's era Ana Ivanovic influence on tennis market and world of sport with Svetlana Kuznetsova zero-influence (sorry, but that is true), not with Maria Sharapova or Serena Williams. If Maria Sharapova retire today, thanks to giant influence and impact of hers phenom in current sport era on tennis and sport she should to be counted as greater player than Hana Mandlikova from past, despite Mandlikova has better career achievements. Mandlikova was never WTA#1, but reach 4GS titles from 8 finals (Maria 3GS titles from 4 GS finals). As I say already 2GS titles + 2GS finals is really (slightly!) better achievements than 1GS title + WTA#1 + 2GS finals, but thanks to special bonus which Ivanovic should to get thanks to hers impact on tennis game and thanks to fact that PEAK-Ivanovic is arguable better player than PEAK-Kuznetsova, I think Ivanovic should to be considered "greater". I give good comparison when I compare Ivanovic with Sabatini and Kuznetsova with Novotna, where Novotna played one GS final more than Sabatini and reach 11+4 GS titles in doubles and mixed doubles (Sabatini only 1+0) and achieve better career high ranking (#2 vs #3) - but despite Novotna's slightly better career achievements we should to count Sabatini as "greater" thanks to big inpact which she have on tennis and worlds of sport in hers era.

And if You really don't believe that "Phenom Ivanovic" not exist outside Serbia, how can You explain some of this facts:
- 4 years in the row Ana Ivanovic official website is most visited website of any female worlds athlete. (despite big slump since 2009)
- At 22 (last february) she become youngest ever athlete (male or female) which signs so-called LIFE-CONTRACT with Adidas company. (despite big slump since 2009)
- 4 years in the row she is on TOP5 WTA and worlds TOP10 female-athletes $$$ earning list (thanks to great Adidas, Yonex, Rolex...etc contracts)

Or maybe some interesting facts from trivia like for example that despite 1st round lose hers AO/2011 dress (nothing special) is still become officially best selling dress from that event, or for example in USA where according to You nobody knows about hers she is chosen last season to replace injured Serena Williams in New York BJK Cup to prevent commercial disaster of this 1M$ one-day EXO event.

Ferg
May 8th, 2011, 04:02 PM
Those tendencies have only shown up in the past two to three years. Throughout 2004-2008 (with the exception of late 2005) she was one of the most consistent players on the Tour. :shrug: In 2006, she made the semi-finals or better in 12 events and won 60 matches (the same amount as 2004, actually) and in 2007 she won only five less matches. In fact, in six different years she has won over 40 matches and in five different years has finished in the top 10 in the rankings (with four of those finishes in the top 5). There's no point in saying that she's less consistent than Ana because she only has one full year of continually decent results.

Logic is useless on this board :tears:

justineheninfan
May 8th, 2011, 08:22 PM
As overrated as Kuznetsova is on this forum it is total BS that peak Ana is better than her. Peak Kuznetsova has atleast beaten all the top players at some point, which Ana has not done.

JCTennisFan
May 8th, 2011, 10:03 PM
Yeah but the way she won against alot of the greats was just fugly, grindy, physical tennis. Kuzzie reminds me so much of Nadal in her style of play....... only Nadal makes it look well executed but Kuzzie more often than not makes it look ITF level. I just cant get over those fugly strokes of hers.....(and the way in which she wins most her matches...)

toxina90
May 8th, 2011, 10:49 PM
Not really, because by his logic then they would both have 0 Slams which count, yet Dementieva has more titles and two Olympic medals to her name (one gold), so she would most likely >>>>>Ivanovic :shrug:

Also I think Dementieva owned Ivanovic in every way, and her final defeats to her were flukes.

toxina90
May 8th, 2011, 10:51 PM
...I hate to break this to you, but most of the world has no f***ing clue who Ana Ivanovic is. If you did a poll of who people know of who play tennis today, the female tennis players they'd think of would be the Williams sisters, Sharapova, and that's about it. Ivanovic has nowhere near the cultural penetration as those three, in spite of Adidas and Serbian nationalists trying to force her down our throats. She's certainly better known in Europe than she is in America, but she is hardly a phenom of the caliber you are trying to make her out to be. In the American market, she's a virtual non-entity, largely because she doesn't really speak English.

I'll also throw in that you're comparing Kuznetsova-Ivanovic to Jovotna-Sabatini-Martinez, which is a poor comparison. Of the three great one-slam wonders from the 90s, Sabatini stands out for obvious reasons. But with Kuznetsova-Ivanovic, you aren't comparing one-slam wonders. Kuznetsova's had over a half-decade of impact on women's tennis.

So you tell me: what separates Ivanovic from Mima Jausovec in the collective conscious?

This made me laugh so much, thankyou :kiss:

justineheninfan
May 8th, 2011, 11:08 PM
Yeah but the way she won against alot of the greats was just fugly, grindy, physical tennis. Kuzzie reminds me so much of Nadal in her style of play....... only Nadal makes it look well executed but Kuzzie more often than not makes it look ITF level. I just cant get over those fugly strokes of hers.....(and the way in which she wins most her matches...)

True her game is an eyesore but atleast it is effective...to some degree that is. Ana never beat Henin, she never beat Serena that I know, she couldnt even beat a 32 year old mommy Davenport when given the chance while soon to be #1. If we speak in practical terms I think Kuznetsova's only real slam is the 2009 French, and even that was far from stellar given the pitiful clay court field of the post Henin era, but atleast it was definitely a real slam. Her 2004 U.S Open was a joke as it was Davenport's all the way without the thigh injury in the semis and she also never wins if Kim had played, if Henin had been healthy, or if Serena hadnt been cheated by a racist chair umpire into a quarterfinal loss. The most undeserved slam win of all time probably. So I guess that brings the two closer to on par with each other. Ana's 2008 French was a bit lucky too though with Henin retiring soon before, as even in her poor form at the time she probably still wins it with the aura she had on clay around then.

Mr.Sharapova
May 8th, 2011, 11:16 PM
Kuznetsova's H2H against "The big five" right now :

vs Serena Williams : 2-7. Won 2 matches, 3 other matches won by Serena went to distance.
vs Venus Williams : 4-4. Won 4 matches, 1 match won by Venus went to distance.
vs Maria Sharapova : 4-5. Won 4 matches, 3 other matches won by Maria went to distance.
vs Kim Clijsters : 1-7. Won 1 match, 3 other matches won by Kim went to distance.
vs Justine Henin : 3-16:help:. Won 3 matches, 5 other matches went to distance.

So as we see Kuznetsova did a pretty good job to be even with Venus and to be a win down from Maria. The win/loss ratio 11W/39L.

Ivanovic's H2H against "The big five" right now:

vs Serena Williams : 0-2. Did not win a match. Serena won in straights in both matches.
vs Venus Williams : 1-6. Won 1 match. 1 other match won by Venus went to distance.
vs Maria Sharapova : 2-3. Won 2 matches. No match went to distance. 1 match won by RET.
vs Kim Clijsters : 0-4. Did not win a match. 1 match went to distance.
vs Justine Henin : 0-5. Did not win a match. 1 match went to distance.

Terrible H2H against Serena and Venus, and lets not mention her record against the Belgians :help:. Win/Loss ratio 3W/20L :help:.

Kuznetsova went toe-to-toe with Venus and Sharapova on their primes, as well as won matches against the Belgians, Ivanovic did not achieve that. She is 0-9 against both Kim and Justine :shrug:.

doomsday
May 8th, 2011, 11:19 PM
Win/Loss ratio 3W/20L :help:.

:lol::lol:

The Daviator
May 8th, 2011, 11:25 PM
Also I think Dementieva owned Ivanovic in every way, and her final defeats to her were flukes.

Yeah, two straight set wins were flukes :o Plus two of Lena's wins went the distance, it's not like there was some huge gap between them. They always played competitive matches.

...I hate to break this to you, but most of the world has no f***ing clue who Ana Ivanovic is. If you did a poll of who people know of who play tennis today, the female tennis players they'd think of would be the Williams sisters, Sharapova, and that's about it. Ivanovic has nowhere near the cultural penetration as those three, in spite of Adidas and Serbian nationalists trying to force her down our throats. She's certainly better known in Europe than she is in America, but she is hardly a phenom of the caliber you are trying to make her out to be. In the American market, she's a virtual non-entity, largely because she doesn't really speak English.

I'll also throw in that you're comparing Kuznetsova-Ivanovic to Jovotna-Sabatini-Martinez, which is a poor comparison. Of the three great one-slam wonders from the 90s, Sabatini stands out for obvious reasons. But with Kuznetsova-Ivanovic, you aren't comparing one-slam wonders. Kuznetsova's had over a half-decade of impact on women's tennis.

So you tell me: what separates Ivanovic from Mima Jausovec in the collective conscious?

Venus, Serena & Sharapova are in a league of their own, but after them you would say Ivanovic would be the most visible in the popular consciousness, you could maybe argue Clijsters, but being 4th or 5th in terms of starpower still means something :shrug:

justineheninfan
May 8th, 2011, 11:31 PM
Kuznetsova's H2H against "The big five" right now :

vs Serena Williams : 2-7. Won 2 matches, 3 other matches won by Serena went to distance.
vs Venus Williams : 4-4. Won 4 matches, 1 match won by Venus went to distance.
vs Maria Sharapova : 4-5. Won 4 matches, 3 other matches won by Maria went to distance.
vs Kim Clijsters : 1-7. Won 1 match, 3 other matches won by Kim went to distance.
vs Justine Henin : 3-16:help:. Won 3 matches, 5 other matches went to distance.

So as we see Kuznetsova did a pretty good job to be even with Venus and to be a win down from Maria. The win/loss ratio 11W/39L.

Ivanovic's H2H against "The big five" right now:

vs Serena Williams : 0-2. Did not win a match. Serena won in straights in both matches.
vs Venus Williams : 1-6. Won 1 match. 1 other match won by Venus went to distance.
vs Maria Sharapova : 2-3. Won 2 matches. No match went to distance. 1 match won by RET.
vs Kim Clijsters : 0-4. Did not win a match. 1 match went to distance.
vs Justine Henin : 0-5. Did not win a match. 1 match went to distance.

Terrible H2H against Serena and Venus, and lets not mention her record against the Belgians :help:. Win/Loss ratio 3W/20L :help:.

Kuznetsova went toe-to-toe with Venus and Sharapova on their primes, as well as won matches against the Belgians, Ivanovic did not achieve that. She is 0-9 against both Kim and Justine :shrug:.

That is why I voted for Kuznetsova even if I dont get how much she is build up on this forum sometimes.

Cleffa
May 9th, 2011, 01:55 AM
I agree to most ppl, Kuznetsova at prime is at least on par with Serena and Venus. How can one compare Svetlana to Ana Ivanovic. As for the future no one knows but as for now, Svetlana by far.

Belmont Lad
May 9th, 2011, 03:10 AM
Sveta without a doubt.

Claycourter
May 9th, 2011, 06:59 AM
Both are journeywomen pretty much, but 2 fluke slams > 1 fluke slam.

KBlade
May 9th, 2011, 07:04 AM
Both are journeywomen pretty much, but 2 fluke slams > 1 fluke slam.

Claycourter is back :worship: :lol:

JAS_
May 9th, 2011, 08:08 AM
For those wondering how one can compare a GS+no.1 winner with a 2 GS winner - very easily. Makes more sense than comparing Venus Williams with Monica Seles (as much as these threads make any sense at all).
But, to each his own.

OsloErik
May 10th, 2011, 08:39 AM
I can testify to the exact opposite - that people who don't really follow tennis know very well about Ana (Novak and JJ as well). I chatted about JJ and Ana with folks who are no tennis fans quite a few times. I was once asked, upon explaining that I am Serbian, if everyone in Serbia plays tennis. :lol:
As for the other part of this load of crap, Ana is certainly not a favorite of the Serbian nationalists, in fact the mostly hate her because she isn't patriotic enough (in their opinion).

Oh my god! You mean you are talking about JJ and Ana, two Serbian tennis players, with two people who don't really follow tennis, and then when you tell them YOU are Serbian, they asked you if everyone in Serbia plays tennis? Like the two Serbian tennis players the three of you had JUST been talking about? You are 100% correct, that is irrefutable proof: Ana Ivanovic would probably win Most Popular Woman on Earth if she weren't so busy playing tennis. I mean, if two people with whom you are discussing Serbian tennis players ask you if all Serbians play tennis, that MUST mean that.

You know, I was talking with a Yupik Indian in Nanaimo the other week, and I was mentioning Henin and Clijsters. I explained that I once got really drunk in Belgium and they asked me if ALL Belgians play tennis :D and I laughed, and he laughed, and we shot a walrus and gorged on its fat, and played the Belgian national anthem and cooked walrus-waffles.

As for the patriotic bit, no, I get that. Because she doesn't actually live in Serbia and doesn't really play Fed Cup. Yet somehow her biggest fans on this board are Serbian, so I'm going to stick with my point that the only people claiming she's a world icon that Pushtun women in Pakistan look up to for her ability, giggling, and ability to ROCK the color blue, tend to be either Serbian or Adidas representatives realizing they've wasted 20+ million Euros. Or Swiss Francs. Or whatever the hell money they use in whatever the hell tax haven Ivanovic really lives in.

As for the bolded part, really no comment. :help:

Answer me this: why have Serena, Venus, Sharapova, even Hingis, been on American television late-night shows and Ivanovic not? Because her English is fractured. She puts together a sentence in English better than I can in Serbian, but 95% of Americans would be profoundly confused. She's probably a step above Rafa on the intelligible English-o-meter, but that's not a thing to be especially proud of when you are being aggressively marketed to an English-speaking crowd.

And, are you saying that Adidas and a few Serbian nationalists have greater influence on public than Nike and American media and propaganda machine? It's laughable how you conveniently ignore that.

I'm a little lost. I was saying the exact OPPOSITE. Adidas runs 2nd to Nike in pretty much every department, and Serbian nationalists have virtually zero influence on anything. In spite of Adidas pimping her out to every billboard they can, the rest of the world doesn't match the face with the name. Hell, most of the world doesn't even link Sharapova's face with the name, and most of the world gets the Williams sisters confused.

Fun story: my sister lives in the States, and there's a giant Cole Hann billboard near where she works. Needless to say, Maria Sharapova is plastered all over it. Well, it doesn't have her name anywhere, so she kind of looks like a generic model...except, since she's an athlete and not anorexic, she doesn't look like one of those ridiculous Vogue-type models who might crack if the breeze picks up. ANYWAY, my sister's employer is a progressive sort of man (read: gay as an ice-dancer) and he said to her one day "Isn't it great that Cole Hann is running this ad campaign with a plus-size model? This is the third different display with her this season!"

Moral of the story: nobody has a f***ing clue who SHARAPOVA is without the name and face combined, and she's light-years more famous than Ivanovic. Even in Europe.

Also, I hate to break it to you - but American market is not the entire world.

I'm Norwegian, so I'm perfectly aware of this. Thank you for giving me a chance to emphasize that English is my 4th language, and I write in such spectacular, flawless prose.

As for the fact you've mentioned, true. It's not the entire world. But it's the most important one in terms of media and marketability. By far.

lovable
May 10th, 2011, 08:50 AM
Both are VIPs. Very Insignificant Players. Ana a bit VIPer though.:hug:

JAS_
May 10th, 2011, 09:01 AM
Oh my god! You mean you are talking about JJ and Ana, two Serbian tennis players, with two people who don't really follow tennis, and then when you tell them YOU are Serbian, they asked you if everyone in Serbia plays tennis? Like the two Serbian tennis players the three of you had JUST been talking about? You are 100% correct, that is irrefutable proof: Ana Ivanovic would probably win Most Popular Woman on Earth if she weren't so busy playing tennis. I mean, if two people with whom you are discussing Serbian tennis players ask you if all Serbians play tennis, that MUST mean that.

You know, I was talking with a Yupik Indian in Nanaimo the other week, and I was mentioning Henin and Clijsters. I explained that I once got really drunk in Belgium and they asked me if ALL Belgians play tennis :D and I laughed, and he laughed, and we shot a walrus and gorged on its fat, and played the Belgian national anthem and cooked walrus-waffles.

As for the patriotic bit, no, I get that. Because she doesn't actually live in Serbia and doesn't really play Fed Cup. Yet somehow her biggest fans on this board are Serbian, so I'm going to stick with my point that the only people claiming she's a world icon that Pushtun women in Pakistan look up to for her ability, giggling, and ability to ROCK the color blue, tend to be either Serbian or Adidas representatives realizing they've wasted 20+ million Euros. Or Swiss Francs. Or whatever the hell money they use in whatever the hell tax haven Ivanovic really lives in.



Answer me this: why have Serena, Venus, Sharapova, even Hingis, been on American television late-night shows and Ivanovic not? Because her English is fractured. She puts together a sentence in English better than I can in Serbian, but 95% of Americans would be profoundly confused. She's probably a step above Rafa on the intelligible English-o-meter, but that's not a thing to be especially proud of when you are being aggressively marketed to an English-speaking crowd.



I'm a little lost. I was saying the exact OPPOSITE. Adidas runs 2nd to Nike in pretty much every department, and Serbian nationalists have virtually zero influence on anything. In spite of Adidas pimping her out to every billboard they can, the rest of the world doesn't match the face with the name. Hell, most of the world doesn't even link Sharapova's face with the name, and most of the world gets the Williams sisters confused.

Fun story: my sister lives in the States, and there's a giant Cole Hann billboard near where she works. Needless to say, Maria Sharapova is plastered all over it. Well, it doesn't have her name anywhere, so she kind of looks like a generic model...except, since she's an athlete and not anorexic, she doesn't look like one of those ridiculous Vogue-type models who might crack if the breeze picks up. ANYWAY, my sister's employer is a progressive sort of man (read: gay as an ice-dancer) and he said to her one day "Isn't it great that Cole Hann is running this ad campaign with a plus-size model? This is the third different display with her this season!"

Moral of the story: nobody has a f***ing clue who SHARAPOVA is without the name and face combined, and she's light-years more famous than Ivanovic. Even in Europe.



I'm Norwegian, so I'm perfectly aware of this. Thank you for giving me a chance to emphasize that English is my 4th language, and I write in such spectacular, flawless prose.

As for the fact you've mentioned, true. It's not the entire world. But it's the most important one in terms of media and marketability. By far.

OMG, you didn't get ONE thing right out of my comment.
I NEVER said the person asked me if everybody in Serbia plays tennis AFTER talking about JJ and Ana.
I said after saying I was Serbian I was once asked the question (no, we hadn't talked about tennis previously, in fact we hadn't talked about anything previously at all).
And no I didn't say Ana was the most famous person on the face of the Earth, so I don't see why you are refuting that.
Finally, when I mention American media machine, I did so to emphasize their role in making Sharapova the star that she is, as well as giving the Williamses the starpower they have. Believe me, if you asked a generic Serbian peasant they don't know either who the sisters are. And I tend to think the situation is similar around the globe (except America maybe, but having lived there I wouldn't be so sure).
The point is that you attribute Ana's fame to Adidas and Serbian nationalists, who you admit are just a few on this board, while simultaneously ignore entirely the role of much bigger media machines who have shoved Masha and the Williamses down our throats for more than a decade and then you ask how come Ana wasn't on the late night show on American television (as if that is the ultimate measure of anything :rolleyes:).
Not to mention the similarly biased view that Ana's fans are Serbian nationalists only.
Have you done a study of the national composition of Ana's fans? I think that her fan group is actually the most heterogenous, which I am not sure can be said for the Williamses, not to mention a lot of other players. No one in this thread was comparing Ana with the Williamses so what are you proving with it exactly?
To go line by line and explain where else you got it wrong and the fallacies of your reasoning, sorry, but just don't have time for that.

OsloErik
May 12th, 2011, 03:35 PM
BUMP, because I find this argument between me and JAS the definition of "unintentionally hilarious".

OMG, you didn't get ONE thing right out of my comment.

I find that EXTREMELY unlikely.

I NEVER said the person asked me if everybody in Serbia plays tennis AFTER talking about JJ and Ana.
I said after saying I was Serbian I was once asked the question (no, we hadn't talked about tennis previously, in fact we hadn't talked about anything previously at all).

So, if I'm interpreting your story correctly, you walked up to a stranger and said "hey, I'm Serbian!" and the response was "LOL, do ALL Serbians play tennis, LOL?"

Just going out on a limb, this sounds made up to me...

And no I didn't say Ana was the most famous person on the face of the Earth, so I don't see why you are refuting that.

It's part of my (rather brilliant) sarcasm.

Finally, when I mention American media machine, I did so to emphasize their role in making Sharapova the star that she is, as well as giving the Williamses the starpower they have. Believe me, if you asked a generic Serbian peasant they don't know either who the sisters are. And I tend to think the situation is similar around the globe (except America maybe, but having lived there I wouldn't be so sure).

The Williams sisters and Maria Sharapova are, probably, the 3 most internationally recognizable female athletes in the world. The reasons? They dominate the female athlete market in the United States while playing a global sport, and they win titles. The reason they dominate that market is because of Nike and their good English-speaking skills. The reason they are actually known is because they back that up by winning titles.

Having not spent any time in Serbia beyond a school mission trip to what may have then been Serbia but was mostly just a bombed out village, I don't know if Serbian peasants are tuned in to world advertising. My guess is not. Which means, in the broad scheme of things, they don't matter.

The point is that you attribute Ana's fame to Adidas and Serbian nationalists, who you admit are just a few on this board, while simultaneously ignore entirely the role of much bigger media machines who have shoved Masha and the Williamses down our throats for more than a decade and then you ask how come Ana wasn't on the late night show on American television (as if that is the ultimate measure of anything :rolleyes:).

Oh, goodness, I think you misunderstood me. I'm attributing Ana's LACK of fame to the tiny number of Serbian nationalists. The inability of her home country to get her to penetrate the collective consciousness is absolutely a factor. And Adidas couldn't get her to catch on because, well, they gave her 25 million [some unit of magical money in whatever tax haven she lives in] and she promptly dropped off the planet, in terms of winning things.

Not to mention the similarly biased view that Ana's fans are Serbian nationalists only.
Have you done a study of the national composition of Ana's fans? I think that her fan group is actually the most heterogenous, which I am not sure can be said for the Williamses, not to mention a lot of other players. No one in this thread was comparing Ana with the Williamses so what are you proving with it exactly?
To go line by line and explain where else you got it wrong and the fallacies of your reasoning, sorry, but just don't have time for that.

No, because I have a real job and don't obsess over things like the national composition of my favorite players fan base, largely because I come from a country without famous tennis players and without a past that gets really, really nasty when it starts with the non-heterogeneous.

I do, however, notice that pretty little flag in your icon. And in C6puja (whose name, in case you didn't know, is based on the Romanized keyboard spelling of Serbia in Serbian!) and in the handful of Ana fans that, you know, throw you a bad-rep when you mis-spell the name of her childhood swim / tennis club or mention the fact that she hasn't won anything meaningful since her Adidas contract.

Find an Ana fan without that flag who wants to go line-by-line and refute my statement before you make far-fetched claims of having conducted intensive demographic research into the composition of your home-girl's fan base vs. that of every other player in the world.

currie84
May 12th, 2011, 03:54 PM
...I hate to break this to you, but most of the world has no f***ing clue who Ana Ivanovic is. If you did a poll of who people know of who play tennis today, the female tennis players they'd think of would be the Williams sisters, Sharapova, and that's about it. Ivanovic has nowhere near the cultural penetration as those three, in spite of Adidas and Serbian nationalists trying to force her down our throats. She's certainly better known in Europe than she is in America, but she is hardly a phenom of the caliber you are trying to make her out to be. In the American market, she's a virtual non-entity, largely because she doesn't really speak English.

I'll also throw in that you're comparing Kuznetsova-Ivanovic to Jovotna-Sabatini-Martinez, which is a poor comparison. Of the three great one-slam wonders from the 90s, Sabatini stands out for obvious reasons. But with Kuznetsova-Ivanovic, you aren't comparing one-slam wonders. Kuznetsova's had over a half-decade of impact on women's tennis.

So you tell me: what separates Ivanovic from Mima Jausovec in the collective conscious?

this gives me the chance to thank the Serbian Nazi Party for bringing Ana Ivanovic to my attention.I still remember the day i received an e mail from their headquarters about this young tall brunette who was playing tennis.I started supporting her ever since.

Shonami Slam
May 12th, 2011, 04:05 PM
I'm Norwegian, so I'm perfectly aware of this. Thank you for giving me a chance to emphasize that English is my 4th language, and I write in such spectacular, flawless prose.


I'm searching Ebay for an old Nobel prize i can send you at this moment.

OsloErik
May 12th, 2011, 04:06 PM
this gives me the chance to thank the Serbian Nazi Party for bringing Ana Ivanovic to my attention.I still remember the day i received an e mail from their headquarters about this young tall brunette who was playing tennis.I started supporting her ever since.

You haven't been on this forum NEARLY long enough to try and be that cute. Go back to the Non-Tennis and Live Scoring threads and give it a few more months. GM is a different beast.

Loungy
May 12th, 2011, 04:17 PM
ANYWAY, my sister's employer is a progressive sort of man (read: gay as an ice-dancer) and he said to her one day "Isn't it great that Cole Hann is running this ad campaign with a plus-size model? This is the third different display with her this season!"
:bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:

That said, I'm not Serbian and I gotta say, Ana is, after Sharapova, the most popular tennis player in my country. I know this because there was a poll on a leading sports site at the end of last year. We are hardly a big tennis-following nation, so it doesn't matter much, but just putting this out there.

I think she's fairly popular in Spain (where she has a house - in Mallorca, even, where Rafa lives), too.

ETA: Then again, I'm pretty sure most people who voted on that poll probably googled the names and voted on who they thought was most attractive, so.

OsloErik
May 12th, 2011, 04:27 PM
p.s. I'm super excited for JAS's next post on this thread; according to his/her public profile, the last activity JAS has been doing on TF has been "Replying the thread: Who is greater, Svetlana Kuznetsova or Ana Ivanovic?" since about half an hour ago.

Julian.
May 12th, 2011, 04:29 PM
^ :sobbing:

OsloErik
May 12th, 2011, 04:29 PM
UGH, hate to leave right now, the anticipation is KILLING me, so someone will have to let me know how it goes down.

Have to go channel all this INSANE energy onto something more productive, as fun as this has been. See you all soon.

Andrew Laeddis
May 12th, 2011, 04:38 PM
Kuzneterror by a country mile

JAS_
May 12th, 2011, 05:30 PM
So, if I'm interpreting your story correctly, you walked up to a stranger and said "hey, I'm Serbian!" and the response was "LOL, do ALL Serbians play tennis, LOL?"

No, the stranger walked to us and usked us what language we were speaking, and upon saying we are from Serbia, the stranger asked us that question.
So you were close...except for the LOLZ. ;)


It's part of my (rather brilliant) sarcasm.

I understand that was the attempt. But in reality it was less than brilliant reasoning.
Even as an attempt, it was part of your response to a statement about Ana's and Sveta's fame. So, Cp6uja says: Ana is more famous than Sveta, and you go: no, Masha and the sisters are more famous.
See where this logic fails? I doubt.

The Williams sisters and Maria Sharapova are, probably, the 3 most internationally recognizable female athletes in the world. The reasons? They dominate the female athlete market in the United States while playing a global sport, and they win titles. The reason they dominate that market is because of Nike and their good English-speaking skills. The reason they are actually known is because they back that up by winning titles.

Same as the previous paragraph.

Having not spent any time in Serbia beyond a school mission trip to what may have then been Serbia but was mostly just a bombed out village, I don't know if Serbian peasants are tuned in to world advertising. My guess is not. Which means, in the broad scheme of things, they don't matter.


Of course, since they (in your opinion) are not turned into AMERICAN (not world) advertising, they are non-entities. And then you talk about (Serbian) nationalism.

Oh, goodness, I think you misunderstood me. I'm attributing Ana's LACK of fame to the tiny number of Serbian nationalists. The inability of her home country to get her to penetrate the collective consciousness is absolutely a factor. And Adidas couldn't get her to catch on because, well, they gave her 25 million [some unit of magical money in whatever tax haven she lives in] and she promptly dropped off the planet, in terms of winning things.

Again, comparison with bigger stars on the tour. Cf: the second paragraph.

No, because I have a real job and don't obsess over things like the national composition of my favorite players fan base,

Phew. You almost got me there.
But don't let it stop you from making far-fetched statements about others' fave players.

And this is really worthy of a Nobel prize as someone mentioned:

largely because I come from a country without famous tennis players and without a past that gets really, really nasty when it starts with the non-heterogeneous.

And I was wondering what to attribute to the use of double standards in the evaluation of ethnicity of Ana's fanbase when compared to the Williamses' fanbase (or lack thereof) - latent Serbophobia or just hypocrisy?
I don't see you dismissing the sisters' American fans just because they are American.
Should we call all of them nationalist? Or should we, similiarly, call their African American fans racists?
I don't think so, but what do I know?
I thought that it was a universal phenomenon globe over that people usually root for the sportsmen from their countries (when they have them), with whom they can identify. But apparently it's just nationalist Ana fans.

I do, however, notice that pretty little flag in your icon. And in C6puja (whose name, in case you didn't know, is based on the Romanized keyboard spelling of Serbia in Serbian!) and in the handful of Ana fans that, you know, throw you a bad-rep when you mis-spell the name of her childhood swim / tennis club or mention the fact that she hasn't won anything meaningful since her Adidas contract.

Yeah, so all this is over a bad rep? Please.
And I am gonna go out on limb here and assume that you invented the spelling reason.

Find an Ana fan without that flag who wants to go line-by-line and refute my statement before you make far-fetched claims of having conducted intensive demographic research into the composition of your home-girl's fan base vs. that of every other player in the world.

Sure, as soon as you back up your claims about Ana's fan base. I mean, by something other than bed rep and a flag icon. (You do know that these flags need not necessarily correspond to a poster's country, and a lot of posters have changed them plenty of times?)
But it's nice to know you don't count my argument because of Serbian flag next to my name.
Really fits the nationalism theme.

P.S: hate to keep you waiting ;)

Cajka
May 12th, 2011, 06:00 PM
This thread :o

C-Berry
May 12th, 2011, 06:09 PM
I love Ana, but Sveta has had the better career.

Viktymise
May 12th, 2011, 08:30 PM
Two shitebags.

Bismarck.
May 12th, 2011, 09:16 PM
Two shitebags.

Outstanding contribution to the thread. :lol: And aren't you a Pironkova fan?

Viktymise
May 12th, 2011, 09:38 PM
And aren't you a Pironkova fan?

And?

Bismarck.
May 12th, 2011, 09:40 PM
And?

I'm curious as to what your reasoning is behind calling them shitebags.

Viktymise
May 12th, 2011, 09:46 PM
I'm curious as to what your reasoning is behind calling them shitebags.

One of them usually plays well for about 2 or 3 weeks a year and is heralded as a underachieving headcase, when in reality she's achieved more than enough considering some of her flaws.

VIP is undeniably one of biggest overachievers in the history of the game.

This thread has nothing to do with Pironkova. It reads "Who is greater, Svetlana Kuznetsova or Ana Ivanovic?", and I just happen to think that they are both equally quite shite.

Bismarck.
May 12th, 2011, 10:01 PM
One of them usually plays well for about 2 or 3 weeks a year and is heralded as a underachieving headcase, when in reality she's achieved more than enough considering some of her flaws.

VIP is undeniably one of biggest overachievers in the history of the game.

This thread has nothing to do with Pironkova. It reads "Who is greater, Svetlana Kuznetsova or Ana Ivanovic?", and I just happen to think that they are both equally quite shite.

"...usually plays well for about 2 or 3 weeks a year.." Really? She did well to be ranked in the top 5 for so long if she only did as well as you said she did. And win a good number of matches every year consecutively for a long period of time. And get to numerous semi finals, finals and titles throughout her career.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svetlana_Kuznetsova_career_statistics

"VIP is undeniably one of the biggest overachievers in the history of the game."

:lol: What makes it undeniable? The fact that you've said so? I don't like Ivanovic one bit, but Wozniacki, Zvonareva, Azarenka, Peer, Li, Wickmayer, Kirilenko and Safina are all players I would describe as, in my opinion, those who have had greater achievements in relation to their talent. In fact, I would even say that Ana has wasted a lot of her talent away.

No, this thread doesn't have anything to do with Pironkova. I just find it highly amusing how you would label two players as 'equally shite' when they have achieved waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than 99.9% than most of the players who have ever played the game.

laurie
May 12th, 2011, 10:09 PM
I have to say I don't understand this thread. Neither are great players so you can't have a situation where one is greater than another - Better? Perhaps, Greater? No

Viktymise
May 12th, 2011, 10:38 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svetlana_Kuznetsova_career_statistics

And what does this prove?

Kuznetsova has had enough bullshit runs in her career to beat the band. How many times have scrubs choked horribly against her early in events, even when she is playing diabolically? Countless. And how many good/great matches has she put in at the highest level? Well, compare your answer to the amount of piss poor matches at the same stages and something won't add up.

:lol: What makes it undeniable? The fact that you've said so? I don't like Ivanovic one bit, but Wozniacki, Zvonareva, Azarenka, Peer, Li, Wickmayer, Kirilenko and Safina are all players I would describe as, in my opinion, those who have had greater achievements in relation to their talent. In fact, I would even say that Ana has wasted a lot of her talent away.

The reasons why VIP has been one of the biggest overachievers in the history of the game have been played out ad nauseum on this board for years. She's not even worth the effort.

No, this thread doesn't have anything to do with Pironkova. I just find it highly amusing how you would label two players as 'equally shite' when they have achieved waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than 99.9% than most of the players who have ever played the game.

And I find it amusing that you think that ragging on Pironkova makes either of these two any less shite than they already are.

Bismarck.
May 12th, 2011, 10:42 PM
And I find it amusing that you think that ragging on Pironkova makes either of these two any less shite than they already are.

:lol: So, Ivanovic and Kuznetsova are the shite ones whose careers have been absolute jokes then what is the rest of the Tour?

Please, enlighten us.

Viktymise
May 12th, 2011, 10:44 PM
:lol: So, Ivanovic and Kuznetsova are the shite ones whose careers have been absolute jokes then what is the rest of the Tour?

Please, enlighten us.

Hasn't it been a running theme in GM for awhile that the tour is something of a joke these days?